H is coming round tonight to tell all. I guess his guilt after years of lies is eating him up inside. Keeps sending me texts saying that he's confused and mixed up but needs to get it all out on the table rather than have it mulling around in his head. <p>He's on his way over and I've already been given a "heads up" from mutual friends about what he may say. PA will likely be confirmed (as if I didn't know it was a PA already) and also the REAL length of his A will be revealed. In other words, it's been going on a lot longer than he originally admitted.<p>Funnily enough, I'm okay. I've known all this deep down in my heart. I've had and trusted my gut instincts for months now, so none of this will come as a shock to me. He doesn't know that I know what he's going to tell me. Just keeps sending me texts saying he's scared and confused. I've assured him it's safe and that I'm calm and really wanting to listen to him. His last text to me said that I will be "shocked and even pleasantly surprised" by what he's going to tell me. Not sure how I can be pleasantly surprised by hearing from the horses mouth that his A is physical and has been going on pretty much since about a month after we got married. But we'll see. <p>So pray for us, please. We really need it tonight. I'm going to be calm and listen to him. I'm only hoping this will open up some lines of communication that have needed to open up for many months now. <p>Love,
VE<p>[ March 06, 2002: Message edited by: venusenvy ]</p>

You have my best thoughts and wishes VE.
I always love reading your updates, and I'll
be especially interested tomorrow.<p>Keep that wonderful Plan A hat on!

VE,<p>I am here for you. I will say an extra prayer for you tonight and I hope that all goes well. <p>Please keep your head held high and remember to be a safe place for him right now and listen carefully to everything he says. He may actually give you some valuable information on what he needs from you to feel safe. No matter what he says, do your best to keep your composure and not LB. I know you can do it. <p>Hang in there. I will check in on you in the morning.<p>Hugs to you
Sinking

Good Luck, Venus...you've done great so far. Your H's willingness to make you his confidante is a BIG step in the recovery process...congratulations on the progress you've made to get to this point thus far. Just remember that it's not over yet (is it ever?) and keep up the good work [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ March 06, 2002: Message edited by: TowardsTheFuture ]</p>

be strong, be careful.. it will be hard.. to hear it, be careful not to lb.. bite your tongue... have a plan on what you will do if you feel lb's coming.. it hurts to hear your h say these things.. mine told me more info just on the phone last night.. and I am obsessing over it today and wanting to know morel... but it hurts.. I am trying to be a safe person for him to talk to.. but I have not been completely, as it hurt me so much to hear what he really did... although it is less than I ever thought- and I mean so much more to him than ow...is the truth... that may be what your h is going to suprise you with, but you already know that too right, you're the wife.<p>H

Hi Venus,<p>You have my prayers. I trust you will handle everything he has to say in a Plan A calm type of way. Do your best to have no expectations. Please remember to not DISS OW in any manner or form, he can diss her all he wants, but don't agree, just listen. <p>I believe he is coming clean now for a reason. It's time and he realizes this. <p>Please just keep telling yourself that Marriage is a journey, not a destination. You'll be fine sweetie. I have so much faith in you.<p>Best,
Jo

VE--<p>Jo is right---<p>He is coming clean for a reason...<p>You have been very strong up to this point and you know you can do this. Yes, it will be hard, but look at it as a step forward...no matter what he tells you. <p>Whatever he says and whatever you do, do not make any rash statements, decisions etc....give yourself time to mull over what he has to say...no matter what it is...<p>I have faith in you, too.<p>You can do this...<p>Good luck <p>E

Okay, Well pretty intense to say the least. It was short, but good.<p>The "pleasantly surprised" bit was that he's dumping her. His words, not mine. I had to pause and cry for a minute after he said this. He sat and waited - I pulled myself together and listened.<p>He then confirmed what I already knew - the A had been going from about a month after our wedding. He even brought her down to our house for a weekend and she sat in on our sofas befriending me whilst stabbing me in the back the whole time. I didn't know the A was going on at the time, but obviously, since Dday, I've put 2 and 2 together. <p>Anyway, I'll just cliff note some of the things he said to me tonight;<p>*He's been lying through his teeth and can't stand it anymore. He says this is why he's coming clean tonight. Can't stand his own lies. I told him I knew he'd been lying, which is why I stopped asking questions. He says he lied to protect my feelings. I said I understood why he lied, which is why I'm not *as* upset about it as I used to be. <p>*He is definitely showing signs of remorse. Doesn't want me to tell anyone he's breaking up with OW because he's embarrassed and doesn't want all the "I-told-you-so's". I promised him I would keep quiet about it.<p>*He says he feels weird coming to me for comfort. He said, "you're the person I vowed to honour and be commited to, and here I am complaining about my OW after I've betrayed you so badly." I reminded him that I took those vows, too. I told him that I meant it when I said "for better or for worse" and that it really couldn't get much worse than what I've been through for 6 months. I told him I was there to offer comfort and support whenever he needed it. <p>*He said, "this probably wouldn't have happened if I had been happy." I agreed and said, "this probably wouldn't have happened if we had known how to communicate. We both made a lot of mistakes and put our marriage on auto-pilot. I'm not entirely surprised it did happen". <p>* He said it's funny that everyone thinks his relationship with OW is all peaches and cream. He said they've been at each other's throats for a few months now. He even said something about how she can shout louder than me. (which I found funny). Looks like OW has turned into the LB Queen! Give them enough rope and they will hang themselves, eh?<p>Okay, now the clincher (as if all this wasn't enough!) He freaked out last night after a phone call he received from a friend. Basically this friend had found out that my H's A had been going on a lot longer than H admitted. Friend told H "if you don't tell Venus, I will. She deserves to know. Haven't you made her life bad enough?" <p>H went into a nose dive after this call - started calling people and yelling and screaming. Then decided to drive to OW house. She, earlier, had sent him a text saying that she was going to bed because she was tired. Said that if he wanted to talk to her, he should do it now. H didn't respond, just drove 2 hours to her house. <p>Well no surprises here....guess what he finds when he gets there? Yup. Another married man! She, of course, denied anything was going on and couldn't explain why, if she was going to bed, she hadn't made up the sofa bed for him. Apparently my H and OW fought all night and she's been ringing him on the phone all day today screaming and shouting and pleading with him not to leave her. <p>Okay, let's reflect...<p>1. He's showing remorse.
2. He is now the betrayed.
3. He admitted he's feeling how I must have felt and doesn't like it.
4. He's told me he's "dumping her" and has been thinking about his for quite some time.
5. He's thanked me for being there for him.<p>So why do I feel so weird? Isn't this what I've wanted all along? I've not cried. I've not rejoiced. I'm just feeling rather neutral. Is that normal?<p>Okay, you lot. It's time for you to jump in and give me your honest opinion. Fire away! I'm ready!<p>Love,
VE

Hi venus,<p>Wow, what a conversation! Everything sounds so hopeful. I suspect that you are feeling weird instead of elated because you are afraid to let down your guard, afraid to be too hopeful. It's been so hurtful for so long. But, it sounds good to me. I think you have great reason to hope. Just take things one step at a time. Don't expect too much too fast. I'm happy for you!<p>Take care,
Estes

If his affair started one month into marriage then it was not about you or unmet needs. I mean you never really had a marriage if he started one month after the wedding.<p>He really needs to get some counseling to figure out why he had the affair.

Wow! Wow!<p>What can I say? So textbook in many ways... OP shows their colours in a big way...<p>Of course, there's a lot of ground to cover... but the ideal situation appears to be when WS comes to their own realization that OP is BAD NEWS. The fantasy is dead.<p>Another Plan A success story in the making? We'll all stay tuned!

Hi Venus ~<p>Well...looks like it might be a step in the right direction...<p>I think your lack of enthusiasm is realistic. <p>However...a couple of things sprang to my mind. <p>I notice that he came clean, basically to unburden himself, and because he was afraid of even worse pain if you found out the truth from his friend. I'm not saying this is totally wrong...I'm just pointing out that really his big gush of honesty was more about selfishness rather than a desire to to set things right...which leads me to my second thought....<p>He told you that he was dumping the OW (we'll see) but I don't notice that he said he wants to return to your marriage.<p>He may go back to the OW a couple of times before this is totally finished. And while breaking with the OW is a good start, commmittment to healing the marriage is something else altogether.<p>But as a little "told ya so", I've been telling you that the affair was sliding down towards that death for awhile! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] LB Queen indeed!<p>So...Venus...what do YOU need if your H wants to come back? I think you need to set down in your own mind, maybe in writing, a list of "must haves" before taking him back. How to approach him about those things will be a bit tricky - because it has to be done without making selfish demands. In my case, I was able to use Steve Harley - Steve laid out for my H exactly what was expected of a WS that wanted a marriage recovered. My H wasn't willing to do those things...which was a strong indicator that while my H was talking the talk...he wasn't walking the walk. It was 6 months later though that Steve's work with my h came to fruition, because when my H was ready to put his actions behind his words...he knew exactly what was expected and what he had to offer me.<p>See...thats the trick...your H has to offer this stuff willingly...and you can't educate or demand! <p>So I think, is that you need to be prepared to ask him, IF and when he asks to reconcile...what does he plan to do to rebuild your trust? At this point, in a perfect world, he will ask you for what you need from him. Hmmph. But that will depend on his levels of selfishness and fog.<p>In the meantime, while focusing on making sure you have your needs clearly defined for yourself at least....keep up the detached distance. Don't get too many expectations and hopes. This roller coaster is only going to get harder and wilder. <p>(((hugs)))

{{{{hugs}}}}}

I think BrambleRose is on the money.<p>Again.<p>Dan

VE,
Bramble Rose has some great advice. Take it!<p>That numb, weird feeling? I think it's pretty normal...sort of like the calm before the storm. Recovery is going to be tough..there may be on and off contact, WS withdrawal..the whole gamut of stuff you read here...so get your strength ready..get your boundaries in place and welcome to the roller coaster.
T

I agree with KalGrl, this was not about unmet needs. Not by a longshot. Why in the hell did he marry you?<p>After reading this, I am too mad at how he has treated you to even comment on this.

V, <p>I am soooo proud of U [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] ! You have been a good example of how to keep your cool and plan A. Keep up the good work. You will eventually get 'some control' back, after he is willing to show he is worth taking back. <p>Respect yourself. <p>L.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Elad:
<strong><p>Whatever he says and whatever you do, do not make any rash statements, decisions etc....give yourself time to mull over what he has to say...no matter what it is...<p></strong><hr></blockquote><p>VE--<p>This is what I said yesterday and I still stand by it.<p>I think your reaction is normal and you need some time to think.<p>Set some parameters for yourself, now that you have the whole (maybe) story...<p>Let's see if your H will now take some action...he's done pretty good on the talking side, but now he needs to DO some stuff----He needs to do some stuff for Venus!!! <p>Take care...<p>E

VE, <p>It sounds like you handled things very well and some good things came out of this. You know that there are many problems between WH and OW and that even if things do not end with a clean break they are definately on the down hill slide fast. He did come to you because he thought that someone else would, but at least he felt that he could come to you. He could have let someone else do his dirty work. And he actually opened up to you. He could have just told you that the A started sooner than you thought and got defensive, but instead he opened up. I think that is a good sign.<p>Now as to why you are not dancing on the table...<p>I think you are just protecting your feelings and being realistic. The bad times are not all behind you just because he said these things to you and said that he was going to dump the OW. You have been here long enough to know that this is just the beginning of another chapter in your surviving an affair. I think as the BS, we spend so much time hearing from them that there is so little hope for the maariage that no matter how badly we want to save the marriage, in the back of our minds we believe there is no hope. So when we see some signs of true hope we are very untrusting of those signs. <p>Hang in there and be there for him when he turns to you. I am so proud of you and how you have handled things so far; keep going!! Hopefully I will be joining you in this chapter soon. I am going home again this weekend, then I only have two more weeks out of town.<p>I will keep praying for you.
Sinking

VE<p>Firstly, I think you are doing really good .<p>I felt compelled to respond to you since our situations in some ways are so similar.
My H had an affair 1 month after we were married, I had been with him for 7 years previously. I am also 32.My H and I are now in recovery after lots of false starts. D/Day was 12/01, 10 weeks after we were married. I was "lucky" , my H never moved out - but an EA contined for another 2 months after D/Day.<p>I think the advice others have given you is excellent.Be prepared for continued roller- coaster ride and remember listen to actions rather than words - it is easy for WH to talk the talk especially if he has been dumped and is feeling guilty.<p>For me and my H the key to our recovery was counselling.I was lucky that my H agreed to counselling even before A was completely finished. Because out marriage was so new I think it only added to the confusion, but it helped us<p>- Understand what our vows meant and the differences between a long-term releationship and marriage (if you were anything like us - looking back we drifted into marriage rather than understanding the differences)
-Understand and explore the relationship we had and problem areas
-Examine if we really wanted to stay married. (For me this was a no brainer but for H especially at the beginning this was really what made him attend)
-Neutral ground made it much easier for us to both communicate honestly.<p>We were also lucky to find a counsellor who at the beginning was extremely even handed (ie I thought she was giving me a hard time! - I look back now and she she was balanced!)<p>I just wanted to share that with you - as I know it worked for us .<p>Thinking of you.<p>Pixie