Thanks, Conqueror. I find your direct approach very refreshing. And what you say rings true. I suppose what this really gets down to is this: what if I cause more harm than good by this kind of activity? What if my suspicions are ill-founded and WH finds out I'm snooping? That would surely be the end. When WH found out I had talked to a few trusted friends about our real problems (WH's sexual behavior) he really blew a gasket and felt I had stabbed HIM in the back. Talk about irony. Guess that is the fog. I just have to be strong enough to realize that if I want a good marriage a la Harley, I am going to have to stick to integrity on those key interests like Radical Honesty and POJA. I really believe in those priniciples. But the cost looks enormous. Thanks for listening and for the input.

I understand the anxiety about it, asgood. My H thought it was a moral failure of mine that I told my family about his infidelity and abandonment and sought their help. I have never apologized for that, and I never will. I would have expected him to do the same thing if he had been in my place. He also bristles at the accountability of the extraordinary precautions and has yet to follow them.<p>The point is that it is THEIR moral failure that makes the surveillance and/or seeking help from your support system necessary. I believe any reasonably intelligent person can see this, so they probably can, too. They just don't want to face their own moral failure, so they project it on to you and grasp for any hook to hang it on.<p>I've found that the stronger I get (and ironically enough, it is his continued irresponsibility that contributes to that!), the better I am able to face these types of showdowns, and so far I've won every single one. I think there's a very simple reason for that--I'm right, and deep down my H knows that.<p>I know the question, "Do you want to be right, or do you want to be married?" gets presented here on the boards rather regularly. But sometimes it comes down to a totally different question, "Do you want a M [filled with deceit or some other fill-in-the-blank], or do you want a life of integrity and serenity?"<p>Maybe you can have that kind of life with a spouse who is currently being deceitful, but you'll never know if you settle for the deceit instead of taking a stand for honesty. A M without deceit makes surveillance unnecessary. Unlike the chicken and the egg, in this case you CAN determine which came first.

asgoodasitgets,<p>It's not immoral to catch someone destroying your life, but it is immoral to commit adultery. You have nothing to feel guilty about. I use the iopus software and am very happy with it. It has done wonders to help RESTORE our marriage because I have proof positive that he is being honest with me. I don't have to take his [very shaky] word for it, I can see with my own eyes he is being trustworthy. That has done more than anything to restore our marriage.<p>I really like the iopus software because it is easy to use, cheap, and records both sides of chat conversations. However, if you use the trial version and don't pay for it, it will give you a warning whenever you restart the computer. So, its real important that you just pay for it when you install it so you can run it in stealth mode. <p>Good luck!

AGAIG:
Those of us who are still thinking, and still have some logic, would find it natural to feel shame and remorse if we were discovered in this way, but WS somehow don't live in the world of logic or anything close.
All I got from my WW when I confronted her with the evidence, and I only used it to press for the truth, since the A had already been discovered and she was lying about it, was enormous anger, accusations of betraying her privacy, and the end of the conversation. Never regret or shame or a real confession.
And since you've seen some of my other posts, you know where that has led us.
Please be very careful in how you use this information if you get it, it backfired for me.

Here's one you might want to try AGAIG:<p>http://www.softdd.com/pcspy/index.htm

asgoodasitgets~
My form of spying is 'old fashioned.' I keep fully expecting my WH to exchange emails with OW, but guess she has not entered cyberland yet. I know for a fact OW's family OWNs a computer. I don't know what the deal is with that! My WH is a computer junky so it would fit right in with the million hours he spends here at the computer.<p>Anyway, what I needed to have access to was my WH's cell phone calls. OW works with him, yet calls him everyday on his way to work. I purchased a tiny voice activated recorder at Sam's Club and using velcro attached it behind his truck seat. I was able to hear a couple of very interesting conversations with OW (his side only, but that was enough). We had just had a long discussion about EA. I demanded (again) that WH end EA. WH asked me for time to break it off with OW 'cause it would not be easy.' (Give me a BIG FAT BREAK!) Stupidly, I gave him 30 days. Their next conversation after that was the first I recorded. I heard my WH--LAUGHING, telling OW what he'd promised me. Then he said "guess we'll have to figure out something else to do after the 30 days are up."<p>Hearing that changed me completely. I knew he was totally lying to me about everything. He had NO PLANS at all to break anything off with OW. AND I heard him LAUGHING AT ME. LAUGHING AT ME! That did it. He is still at home and claims to be working on ending EA. (If in fact it is only an EA. I have reasons to know it went a little past EA.) Whenever I really start to believe him and start to get sucked into that trap again, all I have to do is think about what it sounded like to hear him laughing about what he'd told me.<p>Right now I'm Plan A-ing the best I can. WH is finishing up lots of remodeling projects that have been left undone forever. I think he think's it throws me off and makes him seem soooo committed to M. In the meantime, I'm working out at a gym and in the process of losing 25 lbs, getting in the best shape I've ever been in. I'm giving my Plan A till August. By then I'll be skinny and house will be beautiful! We'll see what has developed with A, then I might just tie a big red bow around WH and sit him on OW's doorstep! Let OWH figure out what to do with him!! He sure hasn't been much help up to this point.... Says he doesn't care what OW does as long as she comes home at night! Thanks OWH!!<p>All posts are right on. Brace yourself for what you might find out. It may be very painful. But I am so thankful that I did hear it. I was able to get out of my denial, always hoping that what he was telling me was the truth. It's hard to face the fact that WH lies to my face, but much harder to take being played for the FOOL. That is my worse fear.....being played for the fool.<p>God Bless~
amazingrace

AG;
You can make this all seem somehow lightened with your wit, charm and sarcasm...thanks! ;-)
Space

<small>[ June 30, 2002, 02:12 AM: Message edited by: AD ]</small>

Thanks for the posts, all. It's very gratifying to have support, even in cyberland! I have been extremely careful and even reluctant to share my story, and it has been difficult without support. Thank goodness for MB forum!<p>A few specifics: Thanks for your insight, Conqueror. I marvel at your strength. Certainly the moral side of all of this has been a big issue for me. I want to be very sure I have given WS every possible chance and "out." But of course there is such a thing as reality . . .<p>As far as the chicken and the egg analogy, obviously the deceit came first, and since it is ongoing, I will pursue the snooping and see where it leads.<p>Your most disturbing question by far was the one regarding yes to marriage or yes to integrity. I battle that one daily. Boy, do I ever.<p>Something I haven't mentioned yet, WH is often gone on business trips. And when he is gone, I ask myself, how would divorce be any different from today? I'd still have financial support, and the emptiness in my life caused by the lack of a spouse would be the same. When WH is home, things don't seem so bad. Unless those little lies come up, or I remember the infidelities. I feel tossed upon the seas.<p>Melody Lane, thanks for the testimonial on Iopus software. I will compare it with Spectorsoft and go with one or the other. I appreciate your sharing.<p>Sc, thanks for the posts. Don't know about any logic I may have left, I have become rather reactionary at times. I understand your experience with sharing what you discovered with your WW. I know I will have a hard time concealing anything I may find from my WH for the simple reason that I have a hard time concealing anything from him. Always have. Goes right along with my somewhat gullible nature! But I am steeling myself for this. And who knows, maybe I won't find anything (Pollyanna?) but it seems only natural that anything worth hiding (on the computer)must not be a good thing for our marriage.<p>You've been a great help, SC. Thanks so much. I'll check out the website you mentioned.<p>Hey, and if I've lightened any load, I'm glad to have done it. It's a short life.<p>Thanks to you, too, Amazing Grace (and a lovely song) I thought your form of spying was downright clever, not old-fashioned! I'll stick with stealth mode; I don't trust myself with technology that much. I'm sorry for your experience, though, it must have hurt dreadfully.
Thanks for sharing your story. I think it's a great plus for you that in the course of Plan A'ing, you are benefitting so much personally. Like weight loss and work outs and all. I know it's an important time to take care of oneself. I hope you'll find peace in your heart one way or the other come August.<p>----Take care.