Most of you I feel are somewhat familiar with my situation as I post a far amount about my anxieties over the fact that there seems to me to be a lot of evidence that my DW is still in this “zone” of hers; where she is highly motivated to get attention from others & in particular, guys. She will claim that this “zone” thing is a figment of my imagination & that I am overly sensitive & insecure. I have not addressed this with her as such, although she is definitely aware some of my reactions & that I do not approve of the way she dresses at times. This zone that I am describing is a perception I have that she is gets a big charge in a typical Boy meet Girl, flirting kind of dance. <p>Just to add to the background on my signature line, she had just met the first guy 4 days prior to having intimacy with him in our home. The second guy was a friend of the first guy and they worked together on occasions in the tree trimming & stump removal business – they were doing this for us. The second guy got started with my DW by showing up on day & mentioning that he knew what my DW was doing with his friend & that was enough for my DW to invite him in for the same. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>
What I am building up to here in this example is not the way she dresses, but some of her verbal interactions with other guys in different social setting and in my presence. Now what I am about to describe is a scenario where she initiated conversations with other guys with a specific sexual connotation. This is Conversation & connotations that I have definitely participated in and initiated myself on numerous occasion in the past, but with my experience with my DW’s A’s and my increased awareness of sexual Addiction issues have refrained from. I now we are dreading on a thin line of this double standard thing & times that I have discussed this kind of this with her, she quickly refers to times when I have been this way in the past. It is almost like she justified these kinds of things like she is trying to get even or something. <p>As a reference, our Pastor, who at least up until January (I don’t know his general opinion because we have not spoken about this kind of thing since I had a visit with him about this in January) seemed very sympathetic to my DW’s slant that these guys were predators & that she was a victim in the six month A”s -???!!. He did say last year that he could see how my W’s - friendly, outgoing nature could be interpreted as flirtatious. We were specifically talking about the get together after our golf league at the bar/ grill in which our Pastor participates on occasion & was whining about how she made no effort to sit with me, but hung out at the other end of the table with other guys – I know, picky & petty! I have not told my DW this as I perceived it could create a problem between her & our Pastor & I don’t want to do that. But I am wondering if this could be something that could add creditability and objectivity ???<p>I know that that I cannot control my W in general & if I try to dictate to her what she says to whom, I will readily admit sounds rather controlling & for me to suggest anything close to that I am sure she would reject with great enthusiasm! I am seeking some ideas as to how I might approach her with letting her know how I feel & ideas as to how I may solicit some empathy & some objectivity here, that her actions are indeed flirtatious – I guess I need some validation here if you will. <p>Specifically we are at the bar/grill after a round of golf and my DW saved me a seat next to her and the other women was the W of our couples friends were do a lot with was seated directed across from us with her H. My best friend, with whom we socialize with as couple as well was directed across from me. On our left, across and beside from my DW were the other guys. A couple weeks earlier, as a gag birthday gift we got my best friend a bottle of “Horny Goat Weed” – Yes it is the natural herbal version of Viagra. I hear the tail end of my DW initiating a conversation with the other guys next to and across the table from her about “Horny Goat Weed” and this starts inquiries & she goes on to explain the gift & how this one W of another friend at the party reacted that her H did not need this and all.<p>Given our history here, what do you think, do I legitimately have the right within good human relations and not to be “Mr. Controlling Husband” to discuss this with her and ask if she could show some modesty here?<p>Not distressed, just curious & interested in what is fair.
Peace,
HH<p>[ April 19, 2002: Message edited by: Hurrian Hoosier ]</p>

Wow, lots of stuff in there.<p>First, I think you are asking the wrong questions. Second, find yourself a new Pastor....<p>
Just to add to the background on my signature line, she had just met the first guy 4 days prior to having intimacy with him in our home. The second guy was a friend of the first guy and they worked together on occasions in the tree trimming & stump removal business – they were doing this for us. The second guy got started with my DW by showing up on day & mentioning that he knew what my DW was doing with his friend & that was enough for my DW to invite him in for the same. <p>This, to me is your biggest concern. The fact that while within the bounds of marriage, your wife can be "intimate" (I assume this means she had sex?) with two men that amounted to one-night stands, is bay far your biggest concern. I can only assume that your wife is deeply and significantly troubled. Such an issue is too far outside of my realm of experience so I hope others that have dealt with this can assist further.<p>What I am building up to here in this example is not the way she dresses, but some of her verbal interactions with other guys in different social setting and in my presence. Now what I am about to describe is a scenario where she initiated conversations with other guys with a specific sexual connotation. This is Conversation & connotations that I have definitely participated in and initiated myself on numerous occasion in the past, but with my experience with my DW’s A’s and my increased awareness of sexual Addiction issues have refrained from. I now we are dreading on a thin line of this double standard thing & times that I have discussed this kind of this with her, she quickly refers to times when I have been this way in the past. It is almost like she justified these kinds of things like she is trying to get even or something. <p>Past means nothing. If you no longer do it, she does not have a right to hold the past against you (that is unless the past was two weeks ago). The two of you should sit down and make an agreement that NEITHER of you will continue such behavior.<p>Now on to the pastor...<p>As a reference, our Pastor, who at least up until January (I don’t know his general opinion because we have not spoken about this kind of thing since I had a visit with him about this in January) seemed very sympathetic to my DW’s slant that these guys were predators & that she was a victim in the six month A”s -???!!. <p>This is a man of God? God granted man (and woman) free will. She was no "victim." Calling her such removes any blame from her for her actions. The only way she could have been a victim is if she was raped. I am sorry but your pastor is far to excusing of sin. Your wife let them in your house, they did not force their way in. Your wife is solely to blame for her actions. I cannot comprehend a pastor being "sympathetic" to someone having an affair in such a manner as to excuse it. Was he at least sympathetic of the pain such has to have caused you?<p>He did say last year that he could see how my W’s - friendly, outgoing nature could be interpreted as flirtatious. <p>What utter nonsense. So because she is friendly that means it was understandable for her to violate her boundaries and the boundaries of your marriage? I suppose if she was a perfect 10 that would make it understandable for her to have an affair as well? Grr, it frustrates me when those that lead of faith can be so blind.<p>[ April 19, 2002: Message edited by: Mr. Bunky ]</p>

<small>[ February 07, 2005, 12:18 PM: Message edited by: hanora ]</small>

HH --<p>I'm starting to get the feeling from your posts that you will always find something to complain about.<p>Hanora just said what I noticed too.<p>A few weeks ago, the big complaint was that you felt bad because she didn't save you a seat. Now she did. But now you're unhappy about something else.<p>You can't change her. You're going to have to accept her as she is -- or do something about it. Your actions are entirely in your hands.<p>Your posts are beginning to remind me of Thinkers. In every single post she mentions the affair and the OP. So do you.

Thanks for the feedback!<p>Mr. Bunky
Thanks!
Our Pastor has been an issue with me at times. He is by most all standards an excellant Pastor. He came to my rescue when I sent my W home, as she called him to come & counsel with me. He readily admitted & has re-inforced on different occasions that he is not qualified as a counselor, yet he has been in a counseling type role on different occassions. I think for the most part as a result of my W seeking his counsel.
Hanora
Good points. I actully suggested the gift as it is a personal joke some times between us guys. My W jumped all over it & went to the store to get it. The gift was presentedat a couples home with two other couples & the guys at the golf are more like aquantances and wedo not socialize with them as such. My W also brought my friend into the conversation by saying that he & his W seemed anxious to go home that evening. He was slightly embarased, but went along in joking manner.
Maybe this shows me as a chovinist & that is part of my question -- the double standard thing -- to me, the whole conversation was more appropiate as a guy talk kind of thing (I know, double standard!) and in particular with my W's history, frankly it made me wonder if she was still in this "sexual" attitude -- I have read that people with SA issue often make sexual connotaion and meanings in their conversations (symptom, not conclusive evidence a person is a pervert!)
Lexxy
You have a good memorary! I was complaining about the same, after golf bar scene when she did not save me a seat & where I sat was an empty seat & she choose to stay where she was, surrounded by guys, as opposed to coming and sitting next me. I know, suck it up! I was being too needy! For the record though that was last summer, not two weeks ago.
---
It is my perception & I know lots of guys that woulod agree, that if I am around a gal that makes sexual connoations & makes sex a part of the conversation it dfinatley gives me the impression that she is perhaps permiscuus. I know it may not be true, but those thoughts definately enter my mind. I believe that if a gal wanted to intice a guy sexually she knows she could do that by talking dirty if you will. Now, she was not talking "dirty" as such, but IMHO, it was a mild kind of "dirty" and if the guys are anything like me the seual thoughts krept in there. I know other guys would agree, but perhaps this would not be every guy. <p>Particularily in the last two years, along with her weight loss and spicy cloths, when we go out, she is like in this self actualization, miss congeniality mode -- For example at a baseball game while she is in concession line (by herself)she stricks up a small verbal, small talk kind of exchange with a guy. When we were at a bar she accepts a drink from a guy. When at a bar & in conversation with mutual guy friend she winks and puts her hand on guys arm a couple times, while arching back and thrusting hips in manner to accent shortskirt & tight top. Seems like flirtatious kinds of things to me. I was curious if anyone would think these kinds of things were flirtatious? Just makes me wonder if she is still looking for some action in some indirect way & when it is annoying to me (again with her history) if it is reasonable of me to ask her to pull the trottle back and show some modesty. ??<p>Are these not some signals to guys that she is open to some flirtation? And if so, maybe she does not even realize it. ?? Surely she would not want to encourage guys to make passes at her would she? [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]
Just wondering -- Perhaps I am being Mr. Control and I should surpress my feelings or instincts here?
I am trying to be cool & I have not raged on her about this thing at the golf course and that was last Tuesday.
We have been getting along fine - did I mention that she has been out of town since Wednesday? [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]
I do believe she is guinely trying to be nice to me and not be controlling. After the golf and at the table she did fluff my hair as it was matted down a little with my hat. This was a tender moment at the table in front of all. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] I was not upset, although I'll admit I had a brief moment where I felt I had slipped back to second grade & my mom was straightening me up after being outside playing -- I got over that felling real quick though. I know she was just helping me. She wants me to have a certain look & she has a lot to say about how I dress, which I don't mind actually -- it is under the idea that I should want to dress and look in a way that pleases her, right? HMMM, could there be a double standard here?
She has backed off this position some of late -- I think she did finally realize something there.
Thanks again for your feedback! <p>HH<p>[ April 19, 2002: Message edited by: Hurrian Hoosier ]</p>

<small>[ February 07, 2005, 12:23 PM: Message edited by: hanora ]</small>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by hanora:
<strong>Hmmm, I suspect that without the history and the dress you would pay no attention to this. A bit of sexual joking is not unusual for the middle aged.
Not unlike our our jokes about hairlines, eyesight, etc. It's the way we hold time at bay, or try to.
Take care</strong><hr></blockquote>
hanora,
You are "right on" here & this is where I struggle. Different things I have brought up she will argue that there is nothing wrong & make reference to other ladies & for sure make her points as if noithing had happened.
I don't think I would be so sensative about some of these issues is she would take some responsibility for her transgressions & show some true affection and respect for my feelings & if she would give me some promises -- she has not made any kind of promise to not to that again. In our relationship, we work a lot on assumptions. The problem with this is that I don't really know under what assumptions or rules she is working. A get this feeling in my gut that she is happy as long as I do everything that she whishes and she does not have to change any of her ways and at the same time if someone else catches her eye she just might come up with some justification to go wondering off again. Like we have a marriage of convenience -- that is because I get the impression that is the way she wants it!
Like, whatever is convenient for her is OK, otherwise forget it.
A reason I post & whin here is that any time I try to talk about our marital relationship, or any issue she gets quite defensive and we end up in a battle.
Believe me I can understand the ladies talk over coffee and as you recognise the guys talk in the locker room. I know the gals generally get a lot more specific! It's the gal talking with the guys in the locker room that makes me uncomfortable right now.
What would you think if your H was contiunously telling sexual jokes with the gals -- perhaps not much, this happens I know ... boys will be boys. This is the double standard, which is not fair I know. I am saying that to a lot of guys, when the gal is hangin with the guys and with lots of physical charm, throws in the dirty talk, IMHO they don't think of the gal as one of the guys! I can't speak for all guys, but most guys I know get some chemical charges & the sex thing comes to mind.
I know we can get into sematics here as to what is over the line -- What I am saying is that internally, I have a zero tolerence right now.<p>Lexxxy makes a good point that I can't change someone. I don't think I am asking her to change as such. Like I said in defferent settings I can be as flirtatious as the next guy & I have not been a saint. But for me to completley refraim from such action is not hard. To me at least, if it matters to my W or for that matter my kids, my pastor, my boss, ect. to refraim from such action would not detract from me as an individual. It would not change me. I could function without feeling himmed in or restrained or controlled -- no big deal. I could say the same thing when I am asked to wear jeans & tee shirts more and not golf shirts & kackies --it doesn't exactly define who I am as a person.
Perhaps I am too flexible & should tell my W I don't care what she thinks, I'm doing whatever I want -- her opinion or feeling do not count very much at all, it does not matter what she thinks! I can guarantee you that creates tension & she acts really dejected.
If I told her that how I dress & my actions are based on what others think, the seemingly popular models as shown on TV & in movies & the media & if my co-workers don't object or if they think it is OK and my friends, if they don't say anything-- that is my standard, not her whishes! In other words in terms of people's perceptions that influences me (or my W, actually as you know I am really talking about me with her) - I rank third or fourth on the list. This is how I feel about the influence I have on anything my W does -- I rank third or fourth -- with our history & her lack of vocal committment or actions of affection or respect, this does not give me a warm & cozy feeling of security --
As an other example, the closet thing that she came to making a committment to me that she would not do this again (A's) was she said that she did not want to deceive me like she did & that if she ever got involed like she did that she would tell me. How would that make you feel? To me there is some wiggle room there -- seems to leave room for one night stands for one thing.
Perhpas I am being presumptuious that she should make a committment to me -- What do you think if I ask her if she could make a vow to me? When I suggested that in general terms when I took her back, she hesitated and inferred something like how could she predict the future and that is when she came up with this other thing.
Would I be too direct to ask her for this or am I punishing her by bringing up these things?
Peace,
HH<p>[ April 20, 2002: Message edited by: Hurrian Hoosier ]</p>

HH~
Now it's my turn to give you a little of my insight..... [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>About ten years ago I lost 47 lbs. I felt like a totally different person. The way I dressed changed too. Bottom line: I was very happy with how I looked and I wanted to show it off! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] Now, I didn't get involved with other men, but I sure wanted my H to notice how I looked! <p>Maybe instead of being upset about the choice of clothes, you should TELL her over, and over, and over how FABULOUS she looks and what it does to you to see her like that! Instead of turning it into something to feel threatened by, make her see that you are SOOOOO thrilled and turned on by her that you just really don't know what you're going to do with yourself!! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Maybe you already do those things. Maybe she needs the notice and approval of OTHER men to feel she's desirable. There are people like that. My WH gets off on how many women are attracted to him! That is insecurity at the MAX, probably deeply rooted from a childhood issue! And if that is what is at work, sorry, I don't have anything to help you with there. That's an issue SHE will have to work on and chances are she doesn't even recognize it as a problem. She probably thinks her problem is YOU griping and whining about it to her! [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I think the sexual undertones in her conversations are for attention too. At least you were there and heard what she said; she wasn't hiding it. I think the whole thing about the way she dresses and talks to guys is for attention. She seems 'attention starved;' you may, or may not have anything at all to do with that! (That was helpful wasn't it? NOT! hee hee)<p>The other thing you wrote about--getting a promise or vow from her about her future behavior-- is very troubling. I see that as something that should have been one of the prerequisits for reconciling. Now that you've already taken her back, I'm not sure how you can pin her down to get something like that from her. If you were willing to take her back saying what she did about not knowing about the future.....I don't know, this is just my opinion, mind you, but I think you lost a lot of bargaining power by seeming to accept what she said as okay with you. Now I'm not sure what your options are. I guess you could wait for the next time. (Sorry, but she doesn't give you much to go on to assume there won't be a next time--and I think you perceive that and that's where most of your insecurities come from.) Then you could really work on a Plan A and get yourself really feeling good about yourself, etc, then if necessary Plan B. I'm sure you meet most of her EN, so she'd be out in the cold (with the no contact part of Plan B), except for her sexual escapades, which at our age are fun, but pale in comparison to the rest of what's good in life--family, security, your home, a future one can depend on.... I think you probably have LOTS of good stuff going on for you, but are stuck in this place with your W that feels like quicksand. Pull yourself loose and get some of YOUR needs met for a change. Not saying get involved in an A, of course, but there are other things out there that can do it for us too. (I mean meet our ENs.) I'm checking on that for myself as well. If we are too needy, we aren't someone our spouses will want/like to be with. That's where I am today too! A little detachment and space never hurt a R when it's been one-sided for so long.<p>Good luck and God bless! (by the way, I'm a Hoosier too!)<p>~amazingrace

<small>[ February 07, 2005, 12:24 PM: Message edited by: hanora ]</small>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by amazingrace:
<strong>HH~
Now it's my turn to give you a little of my insight..... [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img]
Good luck and God bless! (by the way, I'm a Hoosier too!)<p>~amazingrace</strong><hr></blockquote>
Amazing,
Thanks! You did well!
I was going to post this anyway cause Lexxxy made a good point that all I do is complain. The fact is, as badly as she treats me at times, in general I find her quite appealing - if it was not for this thing about sharing our most intimate times with others and some real control and almost abusive things that flair up, I find her company quite enjoyable -- I have alway had a very strong Sex drive and the first 28 & 1/2 year of our marriage were rather frigid & it was not becasue I did not try -- I would make advances at least once a week & many times 2 times a week -- this may seem pretty tame, but we would only average being intimate three to four times a year, so with that average I thought I was pretty persistent -- I say average - there were several years it was no more than two! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img]
Anyway, I have learned a lot about myself & relationships in the past year. I would be a good "co-dependent" and I am needy & get lonely & in retrospect I probablly took her back too quickly and in fact did not make any real requirements. She had been staying with her parents and then she was hangin out with one of her divorced cousins. I got wind that she was going out to a bar dancing with another divorced cousin, & this cousin is very Hot & permissicus -- she has been with 15 different guys in last 10 years as an example -- kind of reference point of pride I guess? I drove 6 + hours one night back to IN to see it I could catch my DW with a guy & end it for good! When I got to her cousin's at 9:00 AM and she was not with a guy I felt great compassion and emotion to be re-united. She was in a seperate bedroom and we were intimate three times before leaving around noon. This was a Friday. We got a room and then stayed at her parents and then got a room on Monday on our way back. She tells me we were intimate 19 times over that period of time.
So it is very nice to know that whenever I want to make love (sorry, it's more sex than love making, I'm just trying to be sensative here!), I don't have to worry, I will get Lucky -- I just wonder at times who else might be getting lucky with my w [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] -- WE WERE HAVING S TWICE A DAY DURING THE PERIOD OF TIME SHE WAS HAVING A'S, so unfortunately I don't feel comfortsable using this as a gage of where we are in our relationship -- One last point regarding the night out dancing and the wild weekend we had -- the very next weekend I find a package of six condems in her glove compartment - I won't bore you with her explainantion [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] -- Just a night out dancing right?! [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] Actually all the sex becomes a bit of a strain and is taxing on the brain in a performance anxiety way at times & I have tried to scale it back to once a day -- Believe me, if we go three days W/O it, the S tension is heigh! Do you get an idea why I have some anxities with her?
The lavish compliments are tough at times. The one thing that stands out in my mind from things she said this time & twenty years ago, was that the other guy's compliments mean so much more -- that I compliment, but she expects that or I am obligated. Aslo, she has actually told me not to give her so many compliments & don't tell her I love her becasue it makes her feel guilty because she cannot return the words or gestures (& with her make up or basic attitude, she may actually be right!)
Last Summer I was stressed because she was going on this week long mission trip as a chaperon for High School kids. I was getting a lot of posts suggesting that she has some serious sexual addiction issues & that kind of thing would be dangerous. Another example of a concern I had with the Pastor, because he was encouraging her to go & he does not recognise any potential for sexual addiction. Now here is an example, IMHO of a reverse double standard. I teach a high school Sunday School class & I venture to say that if I had had two A's with gals in our home & in motel rooms & Pastor knew of it, don't you think he might counsel me out of Sunday School teaching -- at least for a while, until I got some help. In our example, he feels these leadership roles will help her I guess. Yes, I have seen a few high school guys turn their heads & take note of my DW as well. As a former horny high schooler I can testify there are some fantasies about these thing!! -- Anyway, you know I am praying hard that week -- yes, she is going back this June! <p> Just so everyone knows that I don't contiunually rage on my W, here is a copy of a letter I gave when she returned from the week long mission trip: <p>CXXX,<p>You know that I have been emotional & a little out of sorts about some things & I have felt some insecurities about our relationship. I just realized the root cause of these feelings. There are many thoughts and expressions I have felt hesitations to reveal to you because I did not want to put you “on the spot” or make you feel guilty that you could not return similar expressions; but right now I don’t care about your feeling towards me, I want to express some feelings I have for you. I have come to realize that I have fallen madly in love with you! <p>I love how you love our children & I cherish the thought that we brought a couple great people into this world! You have been a tremendously devoted mother & have made tireless efforts to do whatever you felt was the best thing for our children & there has never been any doubt in my mind that your motives for them have been of nothing but the utmost care & love & I will forever be greatly indebted to you for this!<p>I love the way you organize our home with such elegance & style.<p>I love your ability to fix a meal with the perfection of a fine chief.<p>I love the way you get into your car & put on your sunglasses and brush your hair back & glance in the mirror as you pull away.<p>I love the way you walk up the side walk when coming home and the way you glance around the yard.<p>I love the kind of flowers and plants you choose for our yard & I love the location & style in which they are place in our beds.<p>I love to hear your voice & I love the way you can talk with such nice tones & reflections & expressions.<p>I love the way you chew your food & sip a drink during a meal. <p>I love the way you swing a golf club & the way you line up a putt & your expressions & sense of joy when you hit a good shot or make a good putt. <p>I love your warmth & friendliness & ability to converse easily with our friends & neighbors.<p>I love it when you wear a baseball cap. I don’t know why, maybe it is a framing of and an expression of your natural beauty.<p>I love the fact that you have some passions and great knowledge about collectibles & antiques.<p>I love & respect your in-depth knowledge about a wide range of diversified topics like current events across the world, the fine arts and social issues, physical fitness & health in additions to world of entertainment, & the menu items at nicer restaurants. You have a very, very classy style with a wide range of acceptance from many people!<p>I love & respect the fact that you have a great sense for fashion & coordinating combinations of cloths.<p>I love your sense of humar.<p>I love & respect your sense for the proper actions & protocol for social events and settings.
I love it when we share the same hymnal when singing in church.<p>I love it when you put your hand up under my arm.<p>I love to be with you to watch a movie or even a TV program, even when we’re not talking.<p>I love to watch you eat an ice cream cone.<p>I love to watch you & hear you as you cuddle and play with our dogs.<p>I love the way you can sit close to me & even the most innocent touches sends comfort to my soul!<p>I love the way you smell!<p>Nothing makes me any happier than to see you smile!<p>I love to hear your wonderful and natural laugh!<p>I absolutely love to hold you & to cuddle.<p>I love it when I hear you talk about your day and what you’re thinking.<p>I love to learn something new about you, a new experience or a reflection back on old times and your feelings about something.<p>I love the way you look at your self in the mirror as you prepare to face the world.<p>I love the way you take off your cloths to prepare for bed.<p>I love how you climb into bed and bend your knee to lay down.<p>I love the way you sleep on your side with a knee drawn up and one arm under your pillow.<p>I love how you look …
&#61656; I love your high arches & wonderfully delicious toes.
&#61656; I love your slim ankles & calves that turn into the perfect thighs and small waist with your full breast and firm shoulders and arms that support a very radiant & beautiful face.
&#61656; I absolutely love your gorgeous green eyes and check bone with the most beautiful full lips and wonderfully tantalizing smile, framed perfectly with your full flowing hair and your small ear lobs, which are so wonderful to nibble and I love the thought of gently biting your wonderful soft neck and upper back.
&#61656; I love the size, shape and feel of your xxxxx. I love the size and shape of your xxxxxxxxxxx . I love to see you in the nude, even if you are just drying your hair! To love see you walk in the buff as is like poetry in motion to me!
&#61656; I love xxxxxxx sensored. The sent and taste of these most private parts are very erotic and sensual and stimulating to me & I can never imagine getting enough or tiring of this stimulus!<p>I absolutely love the way you kiss me! When we kiss, there is absolutely nothing that is better in life!!<p>I love how when we’re together we can be totally uninhibited.<p>I love it how you can accent all these beautiful features for my own private, personal xxxxxxx<p>I love the almost shy and slightly flushed look on your face & that almost devilish look in your beautiful green eyes when you are in the mood for love making. <p>I absolutely love it when you take some initiate to touch me and to start my engine, for even when I’m not in the mood, you can get me going really big time, every time!<p>I love to kiss you and kiss you all over &xxxxxxxx xxxxxx xxxxxxx, so intense, it is like I have left this planet & entered another world. A world of peace, yet a world of excitement & ultimate pleasure. A world I like to be in & be in a lot!<p>I love how you love me. How you desire me. How you want me. How you enjoy me. How you move and how you react, the sounds you make, absolutely sends me into orbit!<p>I love the way you love to love me!<p>No, you’re not perfect & yes, I have some frustrations at times, but please understand that in the final analysis …<p>I am totally, uncontrollably, wildly in love with you!<p>BXXXX<p>She was impressed & got emtional - we kissed that day!<p>hanora,
Thanks for hangin in with me here - I get windy & frankly puttingmy thoughts in print helps me sort through some of this.
Thanks for sharing a little about your situation.
I will say a little prayer for you.<p>Peace,
HH
PS --hope you did not read before my editing - I actually forgot some things I had in there!<p>[ April 20, 2002: Message edited by: Hurrian Hoosier ]</p>

Oh, my, WOW, what can I say.......<p>HH~
I read the edited version of your letter, but I can fill in the blanks with the best of 'em! It was a totally delicious letter. I can't imagine a kiss being all you got for all that literary effort, but if you were happy, that's all that matters!<p>It's funny how these WS can drive us absolutly to the verge of nervous breakdown, yet they possess the ability to melt us into a puddle of jelly with only a look or touch...... My hubby is the same. If they only realized what we are willing to do to save/restore/rebuild our marriages and were willing to work with us in that endeavor!<p>Thanks so much for sharing. I had to stop a couple of times to catch my breath. Haven't read anything that steamy (even in the edited version) since Kama Sutra. Yet at the same time it was so incredibly sweet and touching. What a gift, HH. Your quite a man with the words!<p>amazingrace

Ooops! Hit the send button twice! Sorry
amazingrace<p>[ April 20, 2002: Message edited by: amazingrace ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by amazingrace:
<strong>Ooops! Hit the send button twice! Sorry
amazingrace<p>[ April 20, 2002: Message edited by: amazingrace ]</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Amazing,
Thanks for the kind words!
This is an incredible dance, huh.
With the kiss, I meant the intamacy was truely passionate! [img]images/icons/blush.gif" border="0[/img]
BTW, you seem in a good mood, waz up with you & your H?
Do you mimnd saying what part of Indiana you are from?
Peace be with you,
HH

HH~
My you are the perceptive one! Yes, you're right, my mood has changed and for the best, I hope.<p>My WH has started working on all sorts of remodeling projects around the house that until now, seemed like they would never be completed. I guess he thinks it throws me off somehow, cause anytime I mention something about A, he acts really surprised--like, 'how can you think that? Look what I'm doing around here....would I be doing all this if I had no intention of ending R w/OW? I've told you--I'm not leaving you for OW, I love you, I'm ending it with OW, blah, blah, blah.'<p>Now HH, I don't believe this bull crap one little bit. I haven't seen an honest bone in his body for months! But I had to really look at our situation very objectively and make some decisions about how I was going to continue in M right now. I had been so severly stressed recently that I felt almost immobilized. A good day of Plan Aing, followed by a day filled with LBing and feeling horrible about it. There was that wonderful day Monday, when I "saw the light", felt like a load had been lifted off my shoulders and my 'perfect' Plan A began, followed by the next day when our daughter gave birth to our tiny granddaughter (who continues to amaze nursing staff--doing so much better than usual for her size). My husband going out for a drink after we had a really nice dinner out that same night. But when I asked to go with him he said I couldn't go cause it was 'just with the guys.' Then I call him on his cell phone when it's much later than he said he'd be out and he says he's at this bar where I know everyone from work hangs out at... and you know the rest of the ugly story. <p>Anyway, I had to look at what's going on here. He's finishing my house. Ordering our new cabinets to finish kitchen in great room he built that has had cabinets in it from our old kitchen since we moved into our great room 3 years ago. (We've been working on this addition for 5 years, paying for it as we go with WH doing all the work.) Lots of other projects too numerous to mention. But getting the new cabinets is the biggie. Why would I sabatoge something wonderful like that, just to make a point or two? <p>I've decided to join a new gym that's open early till late. (Signing up today in fact.) The one I belong to now has such limited hours of being open. I'm going to lose 25 lbs that I put back on after losing that 47 lbs I told you about (in the past several years with the stress of going back to college and getting a degree while still running my daycare 55 hours per week, raising teenagers, putting up with my H, etc.) <p>So now I'm in a true Plan A, really working on ME! I love working out and think I'll feel great and see results now that I can go whenever I want to. I could already tell a difference just working out a couple of times per week at the old gym. I'm getting a family membership so WH can go too if he wants. I won't hold my breath, but miracles still do happen!<p>So I'm going to hold on to my Plan A time frame of August. REALLY going to bite my tongue extra hard to not LB or grill about OW. Who cares? By August if A is not over, I'll be skinny and my house will be beautiful!! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I can see myself at that time tying a big red bow around WH and setting him on OW's doorstep. Let OWH figure out what to do with him! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] He hasn't been much help up to this point.....<p>Thanks for noticing my change. That's the story about what's happening at our house. I told WH yesterday morning that I've decided to focus on what makes me happy and if he notices I'm not going crazy wanting to know about A and OW it's because I don't care anymore. He can do what the heck he wants to do. I'm going to do what makes me happy for a change. I don't think that was a LB. I said it very calmly with a very nice smile on my face. Anyway, it had to be said.<p>And last night he asked me to go out with a few people from work after he got off--OW didn't show up of course, but we had a good time.<p>I'm enjoying a much calmer me.<p>(By the way, we're in the southern part of the state on the Ohio River.)<p>amazingrace

Amazing,
Thanks for the update! I like what you are doing!
Keep him guessing for one thing & I particularly like the idea that you went out with him to place co-workers go! I like the idea that the check witch know you are still in the picuture---big time. Like I said before, she may be in for a rude awakening that she is not the prize she thinks she is!! Keep up your game plan, it sounds like it is working!
I too need to focus more on me! I am going to my support group meeting tomorrow evening. I have not been for a couple weeks and only two times in last couple months actually. It is a program modeled after Alanon, only it's for S's or family memebers of a person with SA issues. Myself & another guy are the only guys, a group of 15 or so total. I know this sounds bad, but I am afraid my DW has this condition along with a few other demeans. In reality, she is a sick person, not a bad person.
One thing my program talks about is de-taching & you mentioned that and so I think you have a really good sense about what you need to do. And I like your attitude about this!
We are from central IN and lived in Indy area for 13 years. Had good couple friends in college & went to the Madison Regatta one year -- 30 years ago -- WOW! Is that a scary thought!
I have a second cousin who used to coach footbal at U of Evansville -- the family was well known in that area in fact, in football circles at least. I have two other cousins on the other side of the family that graduated from there.
DW has been out of town with her boss & another co-worker since Wednesday. She called Wednesday & Thursday night but I have not heard from her since. They are coming back today. I have not written anything for her homecoming. Think I will just relax on that one.<p>Her boss is a devoted Christian and they go to a very evangalisitic, spiritual, inter-demonational church. My DW has counselled a lot with this lady - before, during and after the A's -- too bad everything has to be referenced back to A's right now. This lady counseled with me also after I sent my DW home -- I think I mentioned before, she is the one that recommend the Dobson book to me.
This lady however seems to be going through a MLC thing herself & her H wants her to dress more provcativly,(according to my DW at least) so I don't know if she sees my W in this boy meet girl, attention seeking mode. My W will use her as an example in fact & that her H wants her to spice it up even. It is amazing my W mentioned this suggesting how confusing it is that different H's want different things--dahh! Maybe it's just me, but I don't hink it is very confusing -- she is not married to her bosses H!<p>She may actually promote the idea that my DW needs independence? Women's rights kind of thing. I'm not going to worry about their discussions though!
Hope you continue in your good mood & your H gets out of the FOG, & soon! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]
Peace,
HH<p>[ April 21, 2002: Message edited by: Hurrian Hoosier ]</p>

HH,
I really wasn't going to respond to this one but after reading the letter you wrote, I must.<p>The dress issues, the sexual innuendo issues, the lack of affection issues... are still the same because you are willing to love her no matter how she treats you.<p>I think that the letter finally answers the questions that I have had. You ARE willing to put up with whatever she does because you are just totally in love with her.<p>I personally don't know how you have withstood the emotional games that she has been playing, but it seems that counselling, pleading, etc. are simply NOT going to change her behavior.<p>If coming here and letting off steam is the way that you can keep some sanity, then just keep it up! I am frankly baffled by this whole situation, but I honestly wish you the best and think that this site has probably been the only place that you can bare your soul to others who understand.<p>I have a question for you, would you be willing to ask your W to write you a letter in response to your's? You deserve to know what she loves about you. Forget the vows and the future for now, just ask her to write down those things that make her love you. If she can do this, maybe she will be able to see the sensitive, loving man that you are and begin to fall in love with you all over again.<p>Our minister talked about this issue this morning. he said that being in love is a choice. You don't just "fall out" of love with someone. Just like our walk with Christ, our jobs, our responsibilities, we must choose to be on fire , and not allow ourselves to become lukewarm. I will continue to pray for you. Ladysing [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

<small>[ February 07, 2005, 12:26 PM: Message edited by: hanora ]</small>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Ladysing58:
<strong>HH,
I have a question for you, would you be willing to ask your W to write you a letter in response to your's? You deserve to know what she loves about you. Forget the vows and the future for now, just ask her to write down those things that make her love you. If she can do this, maybe she will be able to see the sensitive, loving man that you are and begin to fall in love with you all over again.
I will continue to pray for you. Ladysing [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] </strong><hr></blockquote>
LadySing,
Thanks for checking in. I am a sick puppy, huh.
The funny thing is that for years I felt I was kind of like a battered person. As I read and get feedback frompeople like you I have come to learn that I have been battered in a sense on a lot of different levels. Yet, I seem to have a built immunity to it in a way. As sick as I am about in this way, I think you will agree my DW is very sick in a lot of ways.
I might ask her to write me a letter -- it would be very difficult for her I know -- remember, in December she did not get me a birthday card after I said just a note would be wonderful. I am not a counselor, but I believe she suffers from Narcissum & this reciprical thing is just not in her vocabulary.
Sing, do you agree the Horney Goat weed discussion with the guys, considering our situation was a little bit over the top?
Sounded like an excellent serman!
Thanks for your prayers!
hanaro -- Thanks for checking in! Hope the letter did not burn your ears too much! I forgot about the more personal things until after I posted -- sorry if I offended anyone. [img]images/icons/blush.gif" border="0[/img]
Just felt I needed to show people that I am not always on my W's back as it may seem with all my whinning here.<p>I do need to study more about codenpendency & setting boundaries and such. Obviously.

HH,
To be honest, I don't think the Horny Goat Weed thing is a big deal. Did I read that you said; "We" bought it as a gift? If you were in on it, then it was a joke and no more. Just be glad that you don't need any... [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>She did save you a seat, that sounds like a miniscule improvement at least.<p>By the way, what the heck is wrong with khaki's and a golf shirt? Well dressed guys of ALL ages know that it's a classy look. [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Hang in there and have a great week.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Ladysing58:
<strong>HH,<p>She did save you a seat, that sounds like a miniscule improvement at least.<p>By the way, what the heck is wrong with khaki's and a golf shirt? Well dressed guys of ALL ages know that it's a classy look. [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Hang in there and have a great week.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Lady,
You are right -- saving me a seat is an improvement & she was paying me some attention & even winked at me -- she is a charmer!
I hate to read too much into her motives about my dress, but I believe she wants me to go with the younger look -- also a little of the outdoorsey, rugged look -- non preppy -- May be just conicedence, but I can't help but have this nagging thought in my mind that these two young studes were landscape, rugid, working class guys & that was part of the turn on for her. She almost insist I color my hair, which I don't mind actually.
She has seemed to back off dressing me a lot. I think she realized she can't very well tell me that I'm too controlling by asking her to tone it down & then she lays out cloths for me to wear -- DAHHH!! My friends have the Kaki & golf shirt look. In fact last summer we were going to a Brooks & Dunn concert (Country Music, which also became her thing within the sam time frame of the A's, which I have learned to like) with a couple and the guy mentioned he did not own a pair of jeans!
Another interesting twist to the clothing thing. A couple people here suggested I get a pair of baggy pants & wear a ball cap backwards & see how she like it one me. I suggested the ball cap thing a couple times in a kidding fashion & she said, "Why would you do that, I have never said I like you that way." HMMMM -- I don't think she got the corralation -- she dresses more like a teenager than a 50 year old -- I have not told her that -- the reference to a 50 year old would make her enraged - you know she thinks that becasue of her look no one else thinks she looks like a 50 year old -- DAAA?!
It seems that she is getting ready for the pool scene in that she has started her tanning booth routine. I am going to need help when she drags out her skimpy Bikini to make her trips to the pool on her days off. The bikini is not a string type -- not yet at least, but it is a bikini and far from a "two piece" - the hip straps are one inch.
Her point is that the fashion world says that no matter the age, if you look good, wear it! I can't help but think this is highly influenced by the makers of bikini's, what do you think? [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]
Again, in isolation and if she showed lots of affection & accepted some responsibility for her past indescreations or if I had some evidence that she is in some form of recovery, rather than what I perceieve as denial, I could have some comfort -- Of course, I believe if she were more like in the former posture, she would not have this craze to show her body! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img]
She knows how to work me, there is no doubt -- Like I have said, in her mind there has been enough time since D/Day that I should be over this & any time I bring up any recovery issue, it is me with the problem, I am the one creating waives -- always bringing up the negatives.
She mentioned something new last month that is obviuos, as a potential reason for her acting out -- "we did not have a strong marriage"
Now she refuses to read any MB & if I bring up, it's a problem. Any kind of self help book is out of the question. Couple counseling has been of no use so far. Now, we did not have this marital relationship thing down to well before and we are all of a sudden supposed to figure it out on our own now?! [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] .... Right!!!
In a sense and I'm probablly not fair here, but I don't think it is too far from reality -- As long as I go along with everything she wants & I work to meet her needs, at least form her perspective (at least what she would want me to believe) things will be just fine!
Now in the back of my mind I could almost buy that except that I have this voice that contiunues to whisper to me, She is not showing great signs of true, loving comittment to me, doesn't particuarly want to make any changes for me- pretty much a "me" person. I don't think there is a strong foundation for her to resist temptation the next time it is presented.
Now, perhaps all of her ways will not attract anymore serious advancements, but again with her apparent mind set & ways, I just have this uneasiness that eventually there will be opportunity when a guy will answer her calling for attention. Maybe I am way off on this & guys will just look & admire & not make any advances, so what is the harm in all of that, right. I believe this is what my W wants me to believe. What is wrong with some incensent sexual tension now & then. Boy meets girl kind of exchange and tease - a natural thing, right? [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I suppose it is just asking too much of my W to show some modesty and leave the bikini at home?<p>I will continue to focus on me and study more in hopes that I can develop better ways to communicate & perhaps build boundaries - for me.<p>Thanks again for everyone's attention!
Peace,
HH