Isn't it a disadvantage for the BS that wants the M to survive their WS infidelity(ies) to let the WS know that BS is fully aware of the WS's A?<p>I tend to side with the beleif that once a WS is made aware that the BS knows about the A, that the BS is put at a disadvantage because any plan A of self-improvement and meeting WS's EN's becomes very much aware by the WS and becomes unconvinced and skeptical of the positive changes that the BS has achieved or trying to achieve.<p>An affair starts as a seduction in which the WS is not aware of beign the target of a seduction until WS is totally seduced by OP. A seduction is no seduction if the intended WS is fully aware of the attempt to be seduced.<p>So aren't we, the BS's, in a way, also trying to seduce our WS's by plan A? And wouldn't the BS be more effective if WS wasn't aware of the BS's knowledge of the existence of the A? <p>I'd especially like to hear the views of any FWS if they agree with my premise.<p>Joe

TMCM:<p>boy, that's an interesting question! Actually, though, if the WS doesn't know that the BS knows about the A *at all*, what reason would they have for quitting it? Then again, maybe the best thing would be for the BS to hang back and let the A die a natural death... But then that won't work in some cases (like mine) where the A lasts for years or reignites because the WS gets to have the cake and frosting too. Or, like Charles Kuralt (a one-time hero of mine for his work on CBS' Sunday Morning) who had a 20-yr affair "on the road" that wasn't discovered until after he died. <p>A related question: Why does the WS have to know anything about the BS' plan A? Let them try to figure out why their S is behaving the way they are, just like we BSs have to try to fathom the unfathomable thinking of the WS!<p>I agree with you, in my case in particular, that the A started as a seduction. That gets me off the hook somewhat, because I've been busting my beautox trying to figure out what EN's OM is meeting that I haven't been, and what's wrong with our communication. Those problems still need to be addressed, but they weren't the root cause of the A, in my case at least.<p>As for seducing my WS back to our M with Plan A? I don't think so. Early on, that may have been true to some degree (though I never had to physically seduce her "back", since we never stopped having sex - well, we do stop for lunch and dinner most days [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] ). Now, it's definitely not the case, and it's not the purpose of plan A at all. Plan A is for me, period. And I'll be fine, whatever happens.

I believe you are making a hugh mistake.
The Harley's believe it is essential for the affiar to be made public so it can die. By not informing your wife of the affair you allow her to coninue to lie which will become part of her normal behavior. In addition, if she is in an emotional affair it will then lead to a physical affair. Finally a betraying spouse must be aware of the repercussions of their actions. Your attitude will probably lead her to continue the affair as long as she wishes. Why you would allow yourself to be disrespected and humiliated this way is beyond me. Only through an open and honest dialogue can a marriage begin to be healed. Your attitude of burying your head in the sand will lead to much more headache for you in the future for she will become more and more connected to the OM the longer the affair continues.

My WH has said that if I had not confronted him, he would not have been able to end his OEA. He said they had tried, and just been sucked back into it. It wasn't until the A was made public between us that he was driven to end it.

I agree with BryanP and KS. Had the affair had no consequences at all, not brought to light, OW's H onto her also, there would have been backsliding and it probably would have escalated. My H was glad it wis out. He was finally able to free himself from this very persistent leach.<p>Also, we don't always do perfect Plan As now do we? [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] A WS will use ANY excuse for the continuation of the affair and one deviation from our new behavior is excuse enough. Some of them don't need excuses either. I met two of my H's greatest ENs the night he decided to check into a hotel with OW. <p>They need light brought to the affair for evil dies in the light. I am paraphrasing Ephesians, my apologies to God.

TooMuchCoffee - I like your name by the way [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Isn't it inherently dishonest to keep this from WS and aren't we trying to emulate radical honesty? <p>Also, isn't there something really powerful about saying to an unfaithful, deceitful spouse (if not literally, through one's actions), "I see all the bad you've done, you've hurt me and I am still willing to love you" ?

I agree with Bryanp on this one. You're taking a huge risk in actually helping to conceal the affair.<p>That said, there may be some "tactical" advantage in demonstrating Plan A improvements prior to acknowledging that improvements are needed. BUT - remember, Plan A is for you, it's not to change the WS.<p>I agree with part of your premise that your WS may treat you differently once the affair hits the light of day. This may have some diagnostic value. Once caught in the headlights, WSs usually react in one of two opposite ways: (1) they fold and instantly or soon end it, or (2) they hunker down and defend it as an alien abductee - with all the requisite idiotic statements, fogeese, hypocrisy, and blather. Of course, (2) forebodes a protracted outcome.<p>Just my $.02.

nurseb: <p>"They need light brought to the affair for evil dies in the light. I am paraphrasing Ephesians, my apologies to God." [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Love that. <p>I agree, and BryanP, now that you're on this thread, I again offer my apologies to YOU for jumping on you elsewhere in the past for being so insistent about no contact. I tried to "allow it" based on advice from my IC (our mutual decision, actually), so that I could at least start to make some progress toward recovery (not there yet), and (bless her heart) our MC this week asked me why I thought that I could accomplish anything with this elephant in the room. <p>So now we're getting somewhere, if slowly!

WAT:<p>You're absolutely right. Too bad I'm in the "2" category (maybe I should change my login name to 1long! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] )

TooMuchCoffee,<p>Here's another reason to tell your WS, it more that likely will happen again. If you never confront nor work on the issues, nothing changes. Then when it happens again, the pain is unbelievable, you'll be mad at yourself for not dealing with it the first time. <p>I know first hand. I had read Dr dobson's "love must be tough" but wasn't ready to cut everything off, and didn't know about MB prinicles then. At Dday this time, I was so upset with myself for not speaking up in addition to the pain and anguish of the A. I feel like I wasted a lot of years, because I never really trusted Wh and never experienced intamacy during that time. It's just like dyeing a slow death. <p>
[img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/blush.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]

Ok time for me to reply.<p>If it's true that affairs die a natural death and interference by the BS in the form of love busters does not work and may actually 'justify' and extend the life of an affair, then doesn't it make sense to let pass a SHORT PERIOD OF TIME (LIKE 6 MONTHS)to observe the effects of our plan A, before revealing what we know to our WS?<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Worthatry:<strong>That said, there may be some "tactical" advantage in demonstrating Plan A improvements prior to acknowledging that improvements are needed. BUT - remember, Plan A is for you, it's not to change the WS.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Yes plan A is for us BS and not to change our WS but another purpose of plan A is to create a safe environment for the WS to work on rebuilding the M for when WS decides that they want the M and BS. <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Worthatry:<strong>I agree with part of your premise that your WS may treat you differently once the affair hits the light of day. This may have some diagnostic value. Once caught in the headlights, WSs usually react in one of two opposite ways: (1) they fold and instantly or soon end it, or (2) they hunker down and defend it as an alien abductee - with all the requisite idiotic statements, fogeese, hypocrisy, and blather. Of course, (2) forebodes a protracted outcome.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Despite the fact that the overwhelming consensus of this thread says NAY!, the vast majority of the threads on this forum and the others are from BS where their WS acts in the 2nd way. And this is probably because the A is still strong when the light of day is shined upon it that it has very little impact on ending the A. Affairs that are ended on the spot after they are revealed tend to be of less emotional involvement such as one night stands where the WS does not intend to end the M.<p>You folks also forget that if your WS is in an A and beleives that you are none the wiser, they are vulnerable to subtle attacks of guilt by you in the form of a hug acompanied by "I love you so much and one of the reasons why I love you is because you have always been faithful to me and you know what it would do to our family if you were not". Even some of the hardened WS that beleives that the M is over can not help but be moved by a statement that appears to show the inocent trust of the BS towards the WS.<p>So considering all the posts form BS that are still strugling with their WS that can not or will not their As, even after the so called light of day have been shined upon it, I still hold to my beleif.<p>Joe<p>[ April 19, 2002: Message edited by: TooMuchCoffeeMan ]</p>

Coffee guy:<p>Oh what the hell. <p>I can tell you exactly how this kind of thing would work based on my personal experience. My W began her first PA 11 years ago. I didn't know until 3 months ago. I certainly wasn't doing a Plan A at the time, but I knew things weren't right between us. W claims she tried to tell me things were wrong, but clearly she didn't give me the info to act accordingly and "fix" the problems, so no, I guess this isn't exactly what you're after. But W "ended" the A after a while (I still don't know whether "while" means a few times or a few years) and the A reverted to a "friendship" - really an EA. No C'ing, no nothing. About a year and a half ago, PA flares up again, with all kinds of sexual email traffic back and forth between them and "only" a couple of physical encounters. Last fall, after our house nearly burned to the ground and our lives got REALLY complicated, W decides A is destructive fantasy and thinks she's ended it again. I find emails while clearing our account on the server in January, and get really despondent. Still in pain, and didn't do so good a plan A for the first 2 months, but am doing better now. W continues sporadic email contact with OM, ostensibly to "break it off" with him "her way" but I don't buy it. It comes out THIS WEEK in MC that she's cakewalking (MC tells her this), and so she appears to finally be getting it. Time will tell.<p>W wanted to tell me in her own time after our house was back together and our lives had simplified, like in a year or so. I think that's selfish. Likewise, I'd like her to know why I'm doing what I'm doing, and I think she can see what it is and why it's "working" for me better because she knows I'm doing it to save our M IN SPITE OF THE FACT that I know she had a long-term A. If I'd not told her I found the email, I'm betting I would have enabled her cakewalking and the A would have flared up many more times. She doesn't think so, but I just happen to think she's 2 mangos shy of a chutney at the moment, so I don't agree.

My situation ended up being as Coffeeman is describing, though not by purposeful design, and I do think it helped end the A.<p>This type of situation was forced upon me because of my limited resources and inability to prove the A and bring it to the light of day. And honestly, the only reason I was looking for proof was so that I could change the locks on the doors and leave my attorney's card on the door and be able to explain my actions to my in-laws when they called to find out what was going on because they probably wouldn't get the truth from their son, at least not right away. (Little did I know that all I had to do was go to the doctor for STD tests to get all the proof I needed!)<p>In my heart I knew what was going on, not the exact depth of it, but I knew he had checked out of the M. I then had to face what *I* was going to do. I decided to have a life. I started getting myself together--Plan A-ing before I knew what that was.<p>He got more and more agitated as he observed the changes in me. We still were very withdrawn from each other, very little contact or communication, but he could observe me living my life without him and ENJOYING myself. Eventually he blew up and said he was moving out as soon as he could get an apartment. My response: Do you want a divorce?. We had a discussion where I kept going back to either we get a divorce or we work together on the M. Obviously the old M is over, so it's either one or the other.<p>He said he wanted to work on the M. By this time I knew about Plan A and got more specific and began meeting all of his needs except SF (because he still would not come clean about that even though I said that in order to move forward I would need to know about any and all infidelities and that would have to be processed, etc.). He made a few half-hearted efforts, like coming home on time the first few days, but mostly stayed in A mode.<p>I was SO nice and wonderful and pleasant and loving and giving, and I think eventually he couldn't take it anymore. Plus, no doubt OW was becoming more demanding, so everything was reaching critical mass. He then decided to leave because "I'm not where you need me to be." Me: "All I need right now is honesty." He was gone for 6 days, during which I gave him a closure letter (posted on this forum), and the next day he requested to come home and confessed the A and promised to do "anything" to save the M. (This is not a promise he kept right away, though.)<p>So here's the timetable on all that: I began making noticeable Plan A-type changes around the 4th of July. He dropped his apartment annoucement "bomb" Labor Day weekend. Less than two weeks later he moved out to "think things over". Six days later was D-day.<p>I don't know that I would have done it this way purposefully, but it did seem to have an impact on him. He even described how awful it made him feel during those 2 weeks when I was actively meeting his needs. He said it was like "there was a gun pointed at [my] head."<p>[ April 19, 2002: Message edited by: Conqueror ]</p>

B]Wow. Six months is a long time to know about an affair and not let on. I do not have this kind of restraint, patience or dishonesty in me. I think the WS would feel manipulated when he/she found out that you knew all along and feel like they had been "tricked." I'm not saying it makes sense but in the fog they may feel this way.[/B]<p>Besides, there are practical issues such as sex. How can you make love to your spouse when you are pretty sure they were just with OP? What about the flood of money that leaves family during an affair? It is dangerous to allow that to continue. What if a pregnancy or STD occurs as a result of the affair? This complicates things much, much more and greatly decreases the likelihood that one will successfully save the marriage.<p>
I'll admit there wasn't much of an emotional involvement in my H's affair and he didn't break it off immediately BUT he did break it off very soon. In addition, I think that the happy ones are off working on their marriages and posting less. It may appear that shining a spotlight on the affair doesn't work for all but are you sure your approach will?<p>
[ <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> <hr></blockquote>You folks also forget that if your WS is in an A and beleives that you are none the wiser, they are vulnerable to subtle attacks of guilt by you in the form of a hug acompanied by "I love you so much and one of the reasons why I love you is because you have always been faithful to me and you know what it would do to our family if you were not". <p>Again, manipulative and dishonest. Are you going to feel good after such a comment. Revenge and subtle attacks may feel sweet but I think they will backfire more than an angry outburst or other lovebuster.<p>
Sorry, while typically technically-minded I cannot figure out the quote or bold thing tonight.<p>[ April 19, 2002: Message edited by: nursebetty ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Nursebetty: <strong>"Wow. Six months is a long time to know about an affair and not let on. I do not have this kind of restraint, patience or dishonesty in me. I think the WS would feel manipulated when he/she found out that you knew all along and feel like they had been "tricked." I'm not saying it makes sense but in the fog they may feel this way."</strong><hr></blockquote><p>It is precisely that restraint and patience that is an absolute must in carrying out a succesful plan A. Dishonesty? How many times has an angry outburst or a selfish demand been used as an expression of honesty?<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Nursebetty: <strong>"Besides, there are practical issues such as sex. How can you make love to your spouse when you are pretty sure they were just with OP? What about the flood of money that leaves family during an affair? It is dangerous to allow that to continue. What if a pregnancy or STD occurs as a result of the affair? This complicates things much, much more and greatly decreases the likelihood that one will successfully save the marriage."</strong><hr></blockquote><p>If you're talking about a WS who indulges in ONS then yes, sex and STDs due become an issue. But even if the WS knows that you are aware of their A, and if you still want to have sex with WS, you still have to use protection in the form of a condom for him otherwise you are beign knowingly negligent with regards to your own health.<p>But if a WS is involved in a LTR EA/PA, the last thing on that WS's mind is to be emotionally and sexually intimate with BS, and so your point becomes moot.<p>
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Nursebetty:<strong>It may appear that shining a spotlight on the affair doesn't work for all but are you sure your approach will?</strong><hr></blockquote><p>No it will not work for all situations, but it has the advantage of keeping the WS from disrespecting BS when WS realizes that BS did not throw WS out after BS confronted WS with the truth about the existence of WS's A. Is it any wonder that the WS then beleives that BS needs WS more than WS needs BS and continues with A because BS does not have the will to say enough is enough and throw WS out the door? In the eyes of the WS, a knowledgeable BS is nothing more than a doormat.<p>
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>TooMuchCoffeeMan:"You folks also forget that if your WS is in an A and beleives that you are none the wiser, they are vulnerable to subtle attacks of guilt by you in the form of a hug acompanied by "I love you so much and one of the reasons why I love you is because you have always been faithful to me and you know what it would do to our family if you were not".<p>Nursebetty:<strong>"Again, manipulative and dishonest. Are you going to feel good after such a comment. Revenge and subtle attacks may feel sweet but I think they will backfire more than an angry outburst or other lovebuster.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Manipulative? I suppose it is. Dishonest? Not if you really mean it when you say that you love WS.
Revenge means that you do not love WS and your ultimate goal is to hurt and destroy WS and not help WS decide to choose to rebuild the M. And if you are going that route, then BryanP's 'kill all WS's and let God sort them out' should be the approach to take.<p>Let us not forget that when infidelity takes hold of a M, an undeclared war has been unleashed upon BS, the children, and the M. The WS no longer cares about anybody but OP and to ignore this is to ignore reality. The war has to be fought or we end up surrending without even trying all possible strategies at our disposal.<p>Joe<p>[ April 19, 2002: Message edited by: TooMuchCoffeeMan ]</p>

Dear Joe,<p>Have your read Surviving an Affair? Have you read all of the material on infidelity on the main MB web site?<p>I think that some of your questions will be answered there if you study the Harley's articles.<p>My son had to wait a month to tell his W he knew about her A because he needed to collect evidence to convince himself that his suspicions were correct. Plus she had moved to another state. He told her that he knew the first time she was in town. <p>How could you live with a W for an extended period of time knowing that she preferred being with another man and was lying to you every day? Waiting one month cost my S dearly in terms of physical and emotional health.<p>Think through a plan, then tell her what you know. Expect her to deny the A even if you have concrete evidence. Studying the MB techniques can help you prepare for revealing the A.<p>Good luck to you,
Estes

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Estes49:
<strong>Dear Joe,<p>Have your read Surviving an Affair? Have you read all of the material on infidelity on the main MB web site?</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Yes, I have and I've also read 'Surviving an affair' 'His needs Her needs' and 'Love busters'.<p>Joe

Here is an excerpt from What Are Plan A and Plan B?by Willard F. Harley, Jr., Ph.D.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>But plan A, an effort to end the affair with thoughtfulness and care, doesn't always work. In many cases a wayward spouse is so trapped by the addiction that he or she does not have the will-power to do the right thing. Once in a while the fog lifts and the cruelty and tragedy of the affair hits the betrayed spouse right between the eyes. In a moment of grief and guilt, he or she promises to end it. But then the pain of withdrawal symptoms often brings back the fog with all its excuses and rationalization, and the affair is on again. <p>Sometimes a wayward spouse settles into a routine of having his or her cake and eating it too. In an effort to win the wayward spouse back, the betrayed spouse meets emotional needs that the lover cannot meet, while the lover meets emotional needs that the wayward spouse has not learned to meet. While this competition is excruciatingly painful to the betrayed spouse, and the lover as well, the wayward spouse basks in the warmth of being loved and cared for by two people, with no real motivation to choose one over the other.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>This seems to be the most common scenario in almost all the threads in this and other forums.<p>Joe

Joe, you seem convinced that you should try your experiment. Maybe it'll work. Keep us posted. Will you consider running this idea past a counselor? Even though you can predict what Steve H. will say about it, perhaps he can add some logic that we've missed here. You've got nothing to lose and everything to gain.<p>What do you know about OM? If he's married, can you predict if he's a (1) or a (2)? Even if he's a (2), if he's married, can you predict what affect his family or his W's family may have on him when they find out? What is his standing in the community? A prominent business man? A church deacon? How may the continuation of the affair be affected by these variables? How about his kids - will they turn against him as is often the case? Not that that is a sure show stopper, but sometimes it is.
This is the last time I'll try to talk you out of this, then I'll shut up: I think you're making a huge gamble. Yep, there's logic to your premise, but my gut tells me, based on months and months of anecdotal evidence from this forum, that it's smarter to reveal your suspicions as soon as you have solid evidence. In the meantime, sure, Plan A your butt off. But by pretending everything is OK, you're fanning the flames. So, at least attempt to communicate with her your concerns about your relationship - those issues that must be obvious.<p>WAT

Ok TooMuch ~<p>I'm a BS. My H had an A that had to die naturally before we reconciled. We are now in month 10 of recovery. His affair went on for 2 years. I've had a probably half a dozen sessions with Steve Harley. I've been on these boards for over a year, reading hundreds of stories play out. Are my credentials good enough for ya?<p>Plan A is about you. Plan A is NOT about seducing your spouse back to you. Plan A is meant to be a short term period in which the BS demonstrates willingness to take responsibility for their own 50% of the marriage. The biggest part of that is to avoid lovebusters.<p>I love the saying "We are only as sick as our secrets." By not acknowledging the affair, the BS become part of the sickness, helping to keep the secret, enabling the affair to continue. Because without any negative consequences as a result of the public knowledge of the A, the WS is simply enabled by Plan A.<p>Yes, its possible that the WS, knowing that the BS knows about the affair, will decide that the changes are simply manipulation. But its also possible that the WS will understand just how deeply the BS loves them. There are a number of WSs that have been shocked that their BS could still love them.<p>In my situation, I asked my H to move out when I only suspected an OW. His behavior in our home was horrible and I couldn't live with it. <p>He went on to have a full fledged PA. When I found proof, I told him. He continued to lie and to tell everyone that I was psycho and imagining things. I learned to focus on myself and work on me. I got stronger, and as a result, I made better decisions. You see, the consequence that my H suffered, my crying, pleading and anger, became justification for his affair. When I got my act together and did a real plan A even in the face of his affair, he saw changes in me that lead to his feelings of guilt, and making him feel that maybe his choice of leaving me for someone else was a mistake, that maybe he had been premature.<p>And then I found about 30 emails btwn him and his OW. In those emails was information that I needed legally - his OW was planning our divorce. I printed those emails and went to my Inlaws with it. <p>THAT was the beginning of the end of the affair. That's when real consequences started to fall on my H's head. His family didn't cut him off, but they told him that they knew EXACTLY what was going on and how. He couldn't lie. They told him that he would never be allowed to bring his OW around, even after our divorce. <p>Well, turns out that his OW was on the otherside pressuring to be included in family get togethers and to be introduced as a SO. Her feeling was that I knew about the affair, so it might as well be shoved in my face as a done deal so I'd get on with my life.<p>With his family fully understanding the reality of the situation, he couldn't do what his OW wanted. And this caused a great deal of problems between them as she tried to force him into defying his family. <p>And another consequence happened - I went to an attorney with my stolen emails in hand. In my state, if you file for divorce with the charge of adultery, you have name the OP and serve the papers to the OP too.<p>I didn't use this as a threat, I was beyond trying to save my marriage. I didn't tell him that I had filed for divorce. He found out when I ended up with a complication in my pregnancy, and he had to leave work to check me into the hospital. He was digging in my purse looking for my insurance card and he came across stuff from my attorney.<p>He was well aware that NJ law allowed me to publically charge his OW with the adultery charge. He was terrified of his OW being dragged into our divorce because she was a loose cannon, and out to hurt me if at all possible. His fantasy imagined a friendly divorce and this was busting his bubble!<p>We tried to reconcile several months after that, because by then, my Plan A, in combination with the severe disapproval of his family, and other consequences as a result of the public knowledge of his A was too much for him.<p>He wasn't really ready yet though. It took another round of his A, and another round of divorce proceedings for him to understand the reality - not the fantasy he had imagined - that his life was shaping around.<p>My H honestly believed that he could move out, carry on a romance with his OW (the only woman who ever made him happy), take the kids from me, hire a housekeeper to care for them (I was a bad mom, they didn't need me anyway) and that life would be good. All he needed was for me to be out of his life for everything else to fall into place.<p>But you see, I knew about the OW. And I used that knowledge to protect myself. AND I worked very very very hard on me - not with the intent of winning him back, but with the intent of surviving. That's what Plan A is about. Surviving an affair. <p>Public knowledge of the A was the ONLY thing that brought reality around to burst the fantasy bubble.<p>Had that fantasy been left intact - he would still be with the OW today, and we'd be divorced.<p>One one side, he had me. His wife of 10 years, pregnant with our third child. I knew about the affair, and yet still wanted him. He began to understand that I had learned to accept him and love him AS HE WAS, not who I wanted him to be.<p>And then there was his guilt. He knew what he was doing was wrong. And there I was showing my willingness to change and to be someone he could live with. He'd come over, and find his home a comfortable nice place, with a calm, pleasant wife running things.<p>On the other side was his beautiful OW who met all his needs that I hadn't met. But she had a nasty side, and she let my H have it every single time he tried to honor his financial or parenting obligations with me. She wanted us to have an ugly nasty divorce, and she wanted to be in charge of it. She wanted to make sure I was left with nothing. <p>His guilt was there, pointing out that while he didn't love me, I was the mother of his kids, and that I had been a stay at home mom for 10 years. His cutting me off would spell disaster for me, and he knew it. I couldn't support myself with 3 children. His OW was adamantly against his being fair or honorable with his financial support.<p>If I had kept my knowledge of his A a secret....I wouldn't have been able to file for divorce. He'd have been able to continue living on his own, going between 2 women, getting his needs met. If you keep the A a secret, then Plan B is not an option, and belive me, plan B is necessary almost always.<p>It was the consquences of the public knowledge that forced him off the fence and into making a decision. My Plan a did NOT force him to make a decision.<p>My Plan A however, was the reason why, when forced to make a decision, that he chose me.<p>But his lies and fantasy and his "cake" had to be destroyed before ANYTHING else could happen.<p>We are doing OK now, he's been living at home for 9 months, with absolutely no OW in sight. I am absolutely convinced that if I had made it easy for him to keep up his single life with 2 women wanting him, he'd still be there doing that today.