I don't have time to go into all the details of last night, but the result has been OW told WH that she didn't want to see him anymore. She's never, ever told him that and did so with gusto he said (sort of because of me, but I'll have to get into that later). I didn't know all this till today.<p>So I got up ready to begin Plan B, because of last night. I just am not willing to do this any longer. The nerves of steel are severely bending.....<p>I give him this big speel about how we have to separate, etc., cause I'm ready to lose the last bit of love I have for him and I'm trying to protect it in case he decides to end A and work on M..... You know, the whole Plan B thing....<p>Then WH tells me OW ended it with him last night. He says 'it's over.' Just like that. It's over. For about 2 months that's all I wanted him to say, and he did say he was ending it a couple of times (see my signature), but didn't mean it for more than a minute! He kept telling me he loved her, he cared about her, it would take time to end A, it was something he couldn't just do quickly, blah, blah, blah.<p>OKAY--so now OW ends A and IT'S OVER? If it was that easy, why didn't he end it a long time ago and save me all this horrible hurt and agony??? I asked him didn't he still love her and he said NO.<p>I feel like now he's going to be like, "it's over so what's wrong with you? Aren't you happy it's over? I thought that's what you wanted all along?"<p>Well, I did want A to end of course, but I wanted it to end by WH deciding he wanted me not her, that he didn't want to hurt me, lose me, that he wanted to rebuild our R..... Not by getting dumped by crazy b**** OW! I think she saw this was going to endanger her OWN M and did it to save her own neck!<p>I feel like a second placeconsolation prize to my H! [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] Then on the other hand I think I should be happy, but since it wasn't WH's idea he probably still feels the same about her, except mad about what she did. What if she changes her mind? He says he doesn't care, he wouldn't start up w/her again. hmmmmm I still don't believe anything he says....which is a big hinderance to reconciliation/working on the M talks.<p>Does anyone have any advice for me? I don't know what to do here. I feel really more lost today than I could believe. He doesn't want to talk about it either and that's not helping me at all....<p>amazingrace

I also felt like the 'runner-up' knowing the OW ended the A. She was my former best friend. I think a part of me will always feel that he 'settled' for our marriage when she broke it off. He said the last time he saw her was in her porch, hugging her and saying goodbye. I get sick thinking about him (probably) crying and telling her he'd always love her, etc. <p>He admitted to me back then that he probably would have ended up with her for at least 2 years if she hadn't ended it. Kind of hard to put your heart into marriage counseling and rebuilding when you know that. Of course now he says it would have been a mistake, but I still feel like 2nd best sometimes. I also imagine her sitting there thinking he's still in love with her and always will be. Our minds are our worst enemy sometimes!

Yes, maggierose, our minds are our own worst enemy. If it's any consolation, my WH ended the A, and I still feel like I'm second best to him. Why? Because I feel like he ended the A for selfish reasons. HE didn't want to be a divorcee, HE didn't want to only see his kids on weekends, HE wanted to salvage what was left of HIS reputation, HE needed to absolve HIS guilty conscience. <p>So see, that's a mutual feeling both ways. That may not help, but don't feel like those feelings are exclusive to BSs in your situation. They aren't. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]

Look at it this way. He considered ending it but failed (unable to overcome addiction, even though (maybe) he wanted too.<p>She realised that the "true love" commitment wasn't there - that she knew that one day he would find the strength to do it properly. So she bit the bullet and did it for him.<p>Bottom line is, better sooner rather than later.<p>Now starts your real battle. Finding love for you WS from within yourself. And him showing you genuine love and affection.<p>Don't dwell on how it ended - it doesn't really matter. Just don't expect a cure within weeks for the pain you feel. It gets slightly easier every day. But I feel like I am in the first mile of a marathon.<p>Good luck!

Amazing Grace,<p>In the book, SAA, there is a similar story where OP broke it off with WS. You may want to read (or reread) it. <p>Ask the Lord how he wants you to look at this. for me it is hard to say that, but when I do, I am always amazed. <p>God bless,<p>D.
[img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

AG; this is GOOD!!!!
Remember; do you want to be right, or do you want to be married?<p>In the SAA book, this is discussed at length. Who cares how it ends or who ends it. The important thing is that it does end. The only thing you need is for a commitment to No Contact...<p>This is progress, take it, run with it, you're ready to start real Recovery!<p>Space

Amazing,
Sorry! I know this is so confusing!
Dobson's book talks about this you know,
I feel he has an addiction of sorts --maybe not the SA I talk about, but something similar where he has this unnatural, but reall need for attention from OW -- You said it before -- he has issues with Alcohal and this may be similar - he is a sick person and he needs a safe place to heel. He has to hit bottom though --
You have an opportunity where you may be able to establish some boundaries & require some serious counseling -- you may not have this later.
Whish you the best!
HUGS,
HH
PS-- no one is responding to my most recent post here. I was trying to be sensative by not spelling SEX (SE*)-- Perhaps I should spell it out?

I don't think you should feel like a consolation prize. You should be happy that the OW was able to end it. Someone has to the strong one, the determined one in these entanglements.<p>You need to get over thinking, well, she didn't want him do I want him phase? You want him, your marriage can be better than ever. <p>As SC said, the main thing right now is that there can be no Contact. The OW better be strong enough to stick to it...or you'll have a big problem on your hands. Make sure that your H really sticks to the no contact...and believe me, the next months could possibly be the hardest he'll ever go through. Make him glad that he has chosen (even if by default) to stay with you.
Hang in there!
AS

AmazingGrace,<p>Right now, you are a second choice. That may not be very comforting, but it's a heck of a lot better than being no choice.<p>What your husband is basing his choice on is "Romantic Love". If you've boned up on the MB concepts, you'll know that romantic love is conditional---fickle for those who lack the skills to nurture and keep it alive. If you're committed to rebuilding the marriage and learning the skills to rebuild the romantic love, you will likely end up as your husband's first choice. And when he gets his head out of his a$$, he may realize how hard this whole episode was on you, and he will commit to the same level of care and skill-building, so that you too will be deeply, romantically in love with him.<p>But right now, you have to get through withdrawal. And that's a tough, raw deal for a betrayed spouse. Your husband is going to miss his "love" deeply. The longer and more serious the affair, the longer this period will often take. And what's worse, there's a solid chance that the affair isn't truly over, and there may be a couple "make up" phases between your husband and the OW (not to worry too much however---it sounds like it's winding down). Affairs are like addictions, and the addict often returns to a substance even after swearing to give it up. You are right to be skeptical---don't be mean (lovebusting---disrespectful judgements) about it, but definitely keep this in your mind.<p>I would advise you to shelve Plan B for a little while (it's no good kicking your H in the teeth). A terrific plan for getting the your H out of withdrawal would be to take a vacation together---just the two of you---as soon as possible and for as long as you can possibly manage. In this situation, your husband is forced to rely on you to have his needs met. He's also effectively separated from the OW (I suggest a tropical island with no phone service...). If you could possibly take a 1-2 week vacation together, it'd be a terrific step forward.<p>As hard as Plan A/B is, Steve always reminded me that the real work started during the early phase of reconciliation (during withdrawal). You were fighting against great odds---there's some satisfaction in that, and there's little expectation. All of a sudden, you have a real chance---the affair is over. But your wayward spouse hasn't come back begging forgiveness, admitting how wrong they were, and how tremendously "in love" he is with you. That's probably good---because real recovery rarely happens this way.<p>So, get to work. Good plan A skills. Get into counseling ASAP. Take a vacation if at all possible. And listen empathetically as your husband goes through withdrawal---it will not be pleasant, but it will provide you with a wonderful opportunity to make deposits in his love bank, and that's something that you need.

Thank you so much--everyone of you who answered my post for help!<p>This has been a very long quiet day. Today WH was off work and he spent the day at the computer playing with a new digital camera that he ordered last week. It was delivered today.<p>Tonight H wanted to get some rechargable batteries for the new camera so he asked me to go with him to Best Buy. While we were on the way home in his truck, he reached over and took my hand and asked if I'd forgive him. I didn't answer right away but after a while I said "I can forgive you....." and let my voice trail off. He said "I know you'll never forget it." I told him everything I see reminds me something about A or hurt I felt because of it. He said we'll work on making some new good memories.<p>I'm not jumping up and down for joy here, but I guess it is a start. And I got to thinking, he kept saying she wouldn't take him seriously when he would tell her he wanted to end it. He even told me he thought she was emotionally disturbed. So maybe he was dragging his feet about REALLY trying to end it because he thought she would make it so difficult. Maybe the fact that SHE ended it was a relief to him.<p>He goes back to work tomorrow which is very scary to me. She works there too. He's not being very open about anything yet. Maybe I'm expecting too much too soon.<p>All the advice/information about withdrawal is scary too. <p>Yes, you are all right--I'll take this as a positive thing that's happened. I guess if I had to tick her off, at least she responded appropriately by dumping WH and not decking me! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I will definitely be back to give you all the gory details of that eventful evening last night when H is back at work tomorrow and no longer glued to the computer..... [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Thanks again! You guys are a life saver....<p>amazingrace<p>[ April 24, 2002: Message edited by: amazingrace ]</p>

I was checking on another thread of mine to see if I had any new responses a minute ago. I was rereading what I'd written and I could not believe my eyes! <p>Here's the link if you missed my thread :NEED ADVICE: How do you DETACH yet still meet ENs of WS while in Plan A?<p>This is what I said in my post Monday:<p>I think by backing off and not bugging WH, OW will show true colors and really end A for me!<p>Could I have said anything more prophetic? I must have some kind of insight...... [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I had totally forgotten I wrote that!<p>At that moment I wasn't backing off and I was bugging WH (at least a little), but still, same results from OW!!TRUE COLORS! YEA!<p>Just thought I'd share that spooky moment when I saw what I'd posted Monday.....<p>amazingrace<p>[ April 24, 2002: Message edited by: amazingrace ]</p>

Well I know that when my H broke off his intense EA/PA last year there was several false attempts by him to end it then finally after filing for D on me he woke up and did end it. But then he went thru a several month withdrawal phase where he still wasnt intimate with me and didnt know if he wanted to be in marriage counseling or not. He would even say that to our counselor there!I felt like whacking him over the head with our checkbook since MC costs so much!!! But after about 6 wks of withdrawal he slowly began to be more like his 'real self.' I did a diluted Plan A during this time because he admitted to me that he 'needed time for his feelings for me to come back.' He had completely been living 2 separate lives in his mind and he needed to come back to ONE! Give him time and space- think of him as your extra credit psychology project -that's what I did! I went to church ALOT during this time, read 1000 books and hung out with friends until he got his head together. He did eventually! Take care- lifeismessy

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by lifeismessy:
<strong>He had completely been living 2 separate lives in his mind and he needed to come back to ONE! Give him time and space- think of him as your extra credit psychology project -that's what I did! I went to church ALOT during this time, read 1000 books and hung out with friends until he got his head together. He did eventually! Take care- lifeismessy</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Thanks for sharing, lifeismessy. That's pretty scary about the 2 separate lives....But with all the secret stuff and lies it would almost have to be like that I guess.<p>I like the suggestion about the psych project--I think I deserve EXTRA CREDIT for going thru all this junk all these months!<p>I can tell this is going to be very difficult. Not LB when he's been such a jerk---hmmmm, get out the duct tape! I know I'll need it to keep my mouth shut. So far so good today though. I didn't mention it at all except to ask him as I got out of bed if there was always going to be this thick wall of silence between us. He said NO! And nothing else.. [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] <p>The idea about taking a vacation sounds great, but with my daycare it's a lot of trouble closing and I have to give plenty of notice to the parents.<p>We'll just have to do our work on the M during day to day life.....Life that includes H and OW who work at same place. Not together, but might as well be, she keeps such a close watch on him.<p>I'm afraid I feel that I'M the one who needs time and space! My nerves are shot after going thru this mess. Life goes on too, with other problems and challenges. Our 17 yr old son is giving us fits at school. Our daughter and 5 yr old granddaughter are moving next month to join son-in-law after he finishes basic training in Army. We've never gone more than a day or two not seeing them, so that's going to be very difficult. Another daughter just had a premature baby who will be hospitalized for several weeks longer. Bills have to be paid. My daycare needs constant attention and lots of hard work.... <p>Sorry to vent, but my WH's A has not been the only thing I've had to deal with here! [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Calgon.....take me away! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>amazingrace