I had my suspicions about the OW ending A like WH told me Wednesday morning. He's told me it's over so many times I've almost lost track.<p>Yesterday (Thursday) was his first day back at work. I bought another tiny recorder at Sam's Club cause WH found the first one and has it on a shelf in our bedroom. Like if he can see it, he feels safe from my snooping. Think again WH!<p>I put it in his truck while he was in the shower yesterday before he left for work. He came home for his lunch break and was acting like everything's just fine. After my daycare closed, I got my hair cut and stopped by WH's work and got the recorder out of the truck. I drove to the mall and sat in the car and listened to it. At first, there was nothing only the truck radio on his ride in to work. It's voice activated so it only tapes sound activity. Then it clicks on again and WH says "wait let me roll the window down." OW was standing by truck talking to WH before he left to come home for lunch! <p>I couldn't hear what she said, but got WH's voice pretty good. They were talking about the other night when I confronted her with WH--the night she supposedly ended A. He tells her he's 'confused, really confused.' That was by far the best part. He says 'it's a rough old world.' Then he says something about 'getting her off my neck' talking about ME. Then at the end he tells her he loves her a couple of times and asks her 3 times if she loves him. I guess she was hesitating about saying it.<p>I thought I was going to vomit. He's acting like it's all over. He's talking about us making 'good memories' so I can forget the things that remind me of A. Just said that Wednesday night. He asked me to forgive him---again.<p>Of all the times he's told me he's ending it, he's never been so deceiving or betraying. He always said it was not going to be easy or she didn't take him serious--stuff that left him a way out if I found out about them still talking etc. <p>Last night after he got off work was so difficult. I'm glad I'm not in the dark now and know what's going on. It would be soooo painful to really believe that it was over and then still be played for a fool. But he doesn't know I know, so he thinks he IS playing me for a fool. <p>He was making love to me last night and I had to ask him to stop. (I know that was a LB, but I couldn't help it.) I told him my head wasn't in it and he might as well stop. He didn't understand that, I could tell. I've never done that before. Our sex life has been fantastic. But hearing his voice in my head telling her he loved her right before he came home on his break and was all lovey dovey to me was just more than I could bear. I thought I was going to give it away (that I knew about the conversation) and start crying. I made up something about worrying all day about him being back at work with her and that he hadn't said anything about how it had been at so I had couldn't get it out of my head--cause he knows I've told him I need him to be honest and open with me about everything she says, etc. I told him I just couldn't get into love making. I went ahead and 'pleasured' him after that, but things we strained.<p>I don't know what I'll do next time. We usually make love almost everyday. It's been something that I felt good about, cause I KNOW I meet his SF needs. <p>I might just have to tell him I know it's not over and ask him to move out like I thought about Tuesday night. Plan B! He's a major CAKE EATER and I don't think I can put up with his lies and deceit any longer.<p>Any advice? I'm sure open to any suggestions...<p>amazingrace

How much longer til the home improvements are done?<p>Well -- I'd suggest holding out until those get done, but ultimately how YOU are doing outweighs that need.<p>You can't make him end it -- so Plan B is your next step if you can't live with it as it stands.<p>You're strong -- you'll do great. I'll bet anything he comes crawling back.

{{{{{ Amazing }}}}}}
I am telling you, he is a sick person. I don't mean clinically necessarily & not exactly a SA or LA exactly, but who knows, maybe!
He is wacked out getting attention & he probally does not not why or how it happend or whatever. I suspect she has the same damn ailment! The forbidden fruit deal & all makes it so much more appealing -- these chemical reactions develop a charge --similar to the high of drinking or drugs!
Maybe this is his new escape, his new drug of choice! They have lost sight of the moral thing completely -- This "need to cheat" can be overwhelming & uncontrolable at times! This is what I mean by the fact that he is sick -- another form of the FOG!!
Curiuos, what kind of recorder? The ones I have that are voice activated don't seem to work. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Perhaps, you go back to idea of talking with the check out gal's H? I know this seems rather dramatic, perhaps not best idea?<p>What would Dobson recommend? [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img]
I forgot do you guys go to counseling?
He may in fact want to end it but just cannot -- just like a drug!
First, confirm he wants you -- Has he said this, confirmed in counseling, no question -- then you have freedom, IMVHO, do what you need to do to end the A -- take matters in your own hand that is! Perhaps with these things it is time to arrange a meeting or at least call OW' H.
Prayers are with you!
HUGS
HH<p>[ April 26, 2002: Message edited by: Hurrian Hoosier ]</p>

Well, Gracie - ever heard of Lorena Bobbit? [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Sorry for the snide comment. But you HAVE thought about it, haven't you?<p>Please remind me, is OW married? Does the employer know about the affair? Do your adult children? What is your H doing to "work" on the marriage?<p>Are you in counseling? If you're in counseling together, I suggest you discuss your evidence with your counselor and then plan to reveal it to your H in his/her presence - not before. If you're not in counseling because your H refuses, I suggest you ask him one more time to participate with you and if he refuses, consider revealing your evidence. But I hope you get other opinions here before doing that.<p>WAT

Im sorry to hear about your new pain. I am so afraid that is what is happening to me. I did the tape thing to but didn't work 2nd time. bet your boots i will do it again, and again. I hope things work out. I agree with the counseling thing. Maybe he is addicted to her. Some people are like that. YOU CAN BE OK

I'm so sorry for your pain. I know this is confusing. It is harmful to yourself to stuff those toxins (the lies of your decietful H) then go make love/sex/whatever to him. IMHO, the reason you have the tape recorder is to expose lies. I think you need to confront him in love. Its like you are getting sucked into the deception yourself. You don't have to keep this from him. You don't need more evidence. This is why you got the recorder. I wouldn't tell him HOW you know. But I would: <p>Very CALMLY Start by telling him you love him and you want to work on the marriage and you can handle ANYTHING as long as it is the truth. Then (calmly, calmly) ask him if he is in contact with her. (to give him a chance to be honest). If he lies (and he probably will - expect that) tell him (calmly, calmly) you were giving him an opportunity to be truthful. Your intent is not to find out if he is seeing her cause you already know he is. Then put the ball in his court and ask him (calmly, calmly) what he is going to do about it. (be vague like that but the statement is positioning him to make a choice between you two). <p>Don't get sucked into a battle of whether or not its true. Its amazing how we can see something with our own eyes or hear something with our own ears but the lies and our desire to believe them will have us doubting the facts and reality of it. Just (calmly, calmly) say my intent is not to find out, I already know. If you feel a LB coming on or if he is LB himself (they tend to freak out and become angry when they are exposed) then (calmly, calmly) say I can see your not ready to talk about this right now and walk away. Go somewhere safe, cry, scream, post... your gonna get through this. <p>A LB is not exposing the truth as long as you do it in love. To allow your H to continue this behavior is NOT love. Love him enough to be honest with him. He doesn't know how. You have to show him. <p>If he ever finds out about the tape recorder (calmly, calmly) tell him you don't trust him because he has been untrustworthy. This is NOT about you...don't let him think or imply that it is. IT IS ABOUT HIM!

[[[[amazing grace]]]]...<p>You have to do what is right for you... when it is right for you...<p>Personally, I would pack his stuff... put it out the door and give him a copy of the tape... and tell him that when and IF he is ever really ready to end the relationship w/ OW and work on ours, I might be here... but it took me a long time to get to this place where I could let him go... the last time I said it, he knew I meant it because there were no tears and no drama. Me or Her.<p>Good luck...<p>Cali

I'll try to answer the ? in everyone's replies. THANKS SO MUCH for being here at this awful, awful time. I've been pretty smug that I could handle anything he dished out....but boy, he got me this time!!<p>Lexxy~
Home improvements probably won't be done for at least 2 months. The first group of kitchen cabinets (wall cabinets) are due to be shipped this weekend. He was going to order 2nd group (base cabinets) in a few days. The last group (pantry cabinets and wall oven cabinet) would be ordered soon after those came in.<p>I've wanted these cabinets ever since we first started our great room--5 years ago. But the way things are going I really don't know if it's worth it for me to wait. My love bank is draining rapidly and he's almost starting to make me sick just to be around him.<p>Thanks for saying I'm strong, Lexxy. I sure don't feel very strong right now. But when I am weak He is strong.<p>Hurrian Hoosier~
You know, I really think you're right about this A being his new drug of choice. The past few months he hasn't been drinking anything like he used to. Isn't that a really weird thing?<p>I'm really happy with my two little recorders. The kind is Olympus DW-90 digital voice recorder. I got mine at Sam's Club.<p>Thanks so much for the hug! I needed that!!<p>We aren't in counseling. We went once last month, but it was a big waste of time and I doubt WH would agree to go to anyone else. I'd like to get an appointment with the Harleys but not sure if I can afford it right now.<p>Yes, I'm seriously thinking about contacting OWH. If nothing more than just so he's on the same page as the rest of us. It's very unfair if he's clueless, which he pretty much seems like he is. But really at this point, all it would serve is to just get WH & OW together faster, I think.<p>WH has said he wants to stay with me. Very emphatically in fact over and over. But his actions show something very different....Now today he says he thinks I've lost my love for him (because of last night) and he doesn't want to stay with me if I don't love him. He's setting the stage for action, I think.<p>worthatry~
What wife hasn't put Lorena Bobbitt on a pedestal and saluted her? [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Yes, OW is married--something like 28 years I think (with grown children who she's introduced to WH; took daughter to lunch with WH and brought 2 sons into store to meet him. ~puke~ WH says her kids really like him. Isn't that just great?)<p>Everyone at the store knows they are a pair, but I'm not sure about the store manager. He seems like a decent guy with family values. I've thought about talking to him about it, but not sure. WH is salaried; OW is hourly. Might be something against that in policies. My luck I'd get WH fired, then I'd be supporting him--still seeing OW!<p>Yes, our adult children know about the A. They give me a LOT of grief for not throwing their Dad out like the trash! They are also not happy about MB site, Plan A, etc. I've wanted to post about that. It could be an interesting thread.<p>I don't see WH doing much of anything to work on the M, except talking which comes very easy to him. I LOVE YOU, FORGIVE ME, IT'S WRONG...all these things flow from him like a fountain. It's hard to sort it all out. He's so indignant when I question his integrity about what he claims to be doing/not doing. I always turn out to be the bad guy. Sound familiar?<p>cloudyday~
The tape thing changed our whole situation about 6 weeks ago. He said all they talked about was 'work stuff' then after the first time I taped him, he couldn't say that anymore! Keep trying. But be careful and if you have a bad feeling about doing it, don't. There's always next time. That's how H found recorder #1. I overrode a bad feeling and got greedy. Had to cool it till now.<p>I LuvNprotect ME~
Thanks so much for such a thoughtful post. I really appreciate all your suggestions. And the "calmly, calmly"....You must know me pretty good! haha<p>I really think I HAVE to tell him about the recording though. Otherwise it's just his word against mine and I always lose that. He's so hurt, indignant, etc. And he's so RIGHT. I'm the one making this into something big he says. He told me today "we're just talking. We haven't done anything else yet." (hinting that if they do, it's because I pushed him into it) "I don't know why you want to make this into something it's not." I want him to know I heard him tell her yesterday that he loves her. That's all.<p>With him I need proof, evidence. He's top in sales at his store for the region. He has good selling skills! This will not be pretty tonight, but it has to be done, I think.<p>Thanks again for all the help and support!<p>amazingrace<p>[ April 26, 2002: Message edited by: amazingrace ]</p>

UPDATE!!
After WH got to work he had to go to a community about an hour away to get a contract signed for work. While he was gone there were TEN calls between WH & OW (checking the online records of cell phone)! <p>He called me on his way back into town to say he was stopping by to eat lunch. (Yea, my phone call is that I get to fix him lunch.) He asked how close I was to getting our taxes filled out. We bought him a new truck the day after tax day last week, but we had filed an extension for the taxes cause I didn't have everything together. The car salesman let him take the truck home last week without having gotten the loan. Now the bank says they need the taxes to verify my business income (daycare in my home) before they can issue the loan, so I'VE got to get all the stuff together to get taxes filled out ASAP. <p>He said he ought to give them the truck back and get his deposit back. Then he said "I'll bet I could get a nice apartment with that money." WHAT???? Where did that come from??? He said I acted so weird last night that he's sure I've lost my love for him. He kept saying how he was sure I didn't love him anymore. I think there were some big plans made during those 10 phone calls. What do you guys think?<p>I told him I did that last night because I felt sure that it was NOT over between him & OW. He admitted that they are still talking, BUT IT'S OVER. He says it with great feeling! He kept asking me if I still loved him and I told him yes. Then I asked him if he still loved OW. He said no. I said 'just the other day you told me you did, has that changed now?' And he said he didn't see how that had anything to do with anything. I think I see where the alien abduction thing plays into this crazy way of thinking. <p>He called me after he got back to work and said "can't we work thru this thing?" I told him sure I can work with him if he will be honest with me. He swore he's being perfectly honest with me. That's what I've got to work with--a total liar.<p>I asked him to sit down with me tonight so we could talk. He said NO he didn't want to talk about it. So I said see, we can't work thru it if you won't even talk about it. Then he agreed for us to sit down tonight to talk.<p>I asked him if we could lay all our cards out on the table, calmly ( [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] worthatry) tonight and talk about everything. He said 'all our cards are already on the table.'...Not really, WH! He gets off at 8 pm tonight. Pray for us, please. This could be very big.<p>amazingrace

OK, I really like I LuvNprotect ME's suggestions for how to reveal your evidence. "calmly, calmly" is the key.<p>Believe it or not, you are in a position of power. You have knowledge about affairs and knowledge that he's a liar.<p>Use it to your advantage.<p>Follow I LuvNprotect ME's script and take your stand. If he threatens to leave or "end it", stay calm and say, "OK." The ball's in his court, but he doesn't know you control the rules. Let him put the noose around his own neck. Just sit back and watch. Pretty soon, he'll tighten it on his own.<p>Oh yea, take steps to end the truck deal unless he crumbles.<p>Can you do it?<p>WAT

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by worthatry:
<strong>OK, I really like I LuvNprotect ME's suggestions for how to reveal your evidence. "calmly, calmly" is the key.<p>Believe it or not, you are in a position of power. You have knowledge about affairs and knowledge that he's a liar.<p>Use it to your advantage.<p>Follow I LuvNprotect ME's script and take your stand. If he threatens to leave or "end it", stay calm and say, "OK." The ball's in his court, but he doesn't know you control the rules. Let him put the noose around his own neck. Just sit back and watch. Pretty soon, he'll tighten it on his own.<p>Oh yea, take steps to end the truck deal unless he crumbles.<p>Can you do it?<p>WAT</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Well, WAT, I don't know. I think I have to tell him why/how I know what I know. We've been thru things like this before and he stood on his lies till presented with the evidence. Then he caved, not until.<p>I know this puts me in a good position--a 'position of power' you called it, WAT. I like that. I hope I don't screw it up. <p>I wonder if I should ride this out and get my cabinets. God, that sounds so material of me and I'm not like that at all--or I was't before A. <p>I B]hate, hate, hate[/B] feeling like this. Not knowing what to do or not to do. Major decisions are not my forte.<p>Pray for me. I'll need it.<p>amazingrace

Hi, just a thought, does the OW know that your H is still very sexually active with you? Wouldn't that be an interesting tape recording for her to recieve!! Don't really do it, but the mental picture is making me smile, can you imagine her surprise to learn that he initiates, says all the I love you's first, and then all of the usual noises that go along with the act in general, coming, pardon the pun, from him. How would he explain that one!! And get your cabinets, and ditch that truck, you don't need the added stress of new payments during this uncertain time. BUT you are more important than either of those things so pray first, think second and then repeat before saying anything. Hope your talk went well.

Hi Gracie, how is your weekend. I havn't seen an update and am hoping you are doing ok.

sfmc~
Thanks so much for asking! It means so much to me to have such great people interested in my 'soap opera' life!<p>I started a new thread with the update:
Fog lifts enough to talk this morning<p>I'd be interested to know what you think.....<p>amazingrace