Respect is my buzz word for the week. It keeps jumping off the page at me in some of the things I am reading and I had a friend say to me today that my H doesn't respect me. I also have to respect myself first to gain his respect. My friend had an A a few years ago and she said that she had no respect for her H.<p>I assume getting someone's respect is not letting them abuse and use you, being straightforward and precise with what you need and not living through another. <p>What are your thoughts on how to gain respect and how to respect yourself?<p>TW

Hi TW, OH my goodness... my h says the same thing.. he does not respect me. <p>It is hard to love someone you pity, and someone you do not respect... somewehere in my library of affair books, etc.. it says something like that... somewhere.. and it rang clear to me.. when I read it and also heard my h saying it.<p>Boy it hurts to be told you are not respected by the one you gave your life to? doesn't it... well, maybe your h did not tell you this.. but he does it...<p>take care of you for a while... and respect yourself.. then he will respect you... <p>Hugs, Honey

Respect is a easier to implement than 'love' (which is greatly misused in the fog). <p>I have replaced the word love for respect in an effort to keep things on a even level of understanding. See the OP uses the word love as a weapon against the BS (IMHO of course). So I challenge it by using the words respect, honesty and truth. Early on the WS said that the OW was 'an honest person'. Hm...... let's see this honest person, never gave her name for 3 months, told the WS how to lie to his wife and worked hard to undermine the family unit. Oh yea, fake pregos, pretend to be ignorant (when convenient) but highly educated when convenient,doubl talks, makes promises she does not keep, threatens over and over again, etc. ....does that count? <p>When I saw this pattern building I knew that in my favor was respect, honesty and truth. The WS tried very hard to see those qualities in the OP. The WS 'saw' what he interperted as love but he just could not make respect, honesty and truth fit in the same mold. So this is what I required. The OW tried to do the same but somehow on her it just did not fit. Kept sliding off. Would not stick. <p>Ahh.....that became my tool of choice. It became my EN, my requirement for life. It also was what each member was required to have in order to live in our home. <p>I still center my focus on that. For me it seems to be working. For you see, should the WS step out of line? That would be the first qualities to go. Dead give away wouldn't you say?<p>This also helped relieve some stress off of me. I let those qualities be proven daily. When I don't see it, I stress. H knows this. Now his focus is on me and how not to make me stress. Better he be thinking of me than the OP. Ya know?!?!? [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>How do I get others to do it? Well at work, it is a requirement if they want me to work with them. For my child, it is what he must show in order for me to hear what he has to say. In turn, I must do the same. No favorites here, just fair play. <p>L.<p>[ May 03, 2002: Message edited by: Orchid ]</p>

VERY interesting post Orchid!
I'm going ot have to think about that one a bit...I like it, though; I like it!

I guess this isn't actually answering the question, but let me say this:<p>I asked my husband 3 months or so after D-Day if he would have respected me more if I would have left, if even for a week, after D-Day. He pondered a moment and then said, "maybe so." To which I replied, "If it had been just you and me, I would have left, and might not have come back. The reason I didn't leave was because of those 2 little girls we have in the other room. I did not see it necessary to destroy the very foundation of their lives by leaving for a week when in my heart and in your heart we wanted to work this thing out." I think his respect for me went up on the scale after that reply. I also told him just recently that another reason I didn't leave was to help protect his, my and our reputation. I did not want to let the world in on the fact that we were having marital problems. And as we live in a small town, the world would have known. He also knows that if there is a next time, I will move out, and there will be no reconciliation. He still worries sometimes that I'll get tired of trying to handle the pain and move out. I think his respect for me is at an all time high while my respect for him is at an all time low. (even though it's improving as he has shown that he can avoid the OWs darts!)

I never thought that I did not respect myself. New thoughts for me and will ponder that a bit. I am confused at how to respect yourself. I do not do many things that are harmful. I have inclinations that can make me obsessive but I work on them regularly. Obviously, I am trying to get WS to act respectfully toward me so I am not sure why he might see me as someone he can disrespect. <p>I know that I have no respect for WS. Not good. Is this normal? Does respect grow and need to be earned like trust? <p>Honey---pity is a turn off. I pity WS powerlessness and that effects my ability to respect him. I will have to observe how I act and if I make WS pity me.<p>Orchid---what are some examples that you can give that show others respect you. Thanks for the thoughts about respect, honesty and truth. They are definitely interlinked.
TW

Hi TW, <p>I read your request and need to put those examples in a presentable order. I am in the middle of house cleaning and will update later today. <p>L.

Hi TW,<p>I think about respect a lot. It applies to my work, student-teacher interactions. The last year I have thought about it practically daily regarding BS-WS.<p>As a definition, I have concluded that to respect people is to treat them as though they are persons on value, that they matter, that they and their feelings and opinions have worth.<p>So what, then, does respect look like? Normal courtesy that one would show any other human being. Willingness to pay attention to and thoughtfully consider what the other person has to say. When making a decision, respect means taking into consideration the effect of the decision on the other person . Respect means avoiding actions that hurt other people when there is another way to deal with the situation. In addition, I think that there is an element of being willing to deny selfish needs for the good of others. It is being willing to accept that the needs of the other person are worth as much as yours. This is not to say that one must let others always have their way, but it does mean that one does assume that the other person's needs and feelings deserve to be treated as having worth and value when deciding on a course of action.<p>Now, self-respect. Basically the same thing. One must treat him/herself as being a person whose needs and feelings have value. It means believing that you are worth being listened to and your feelings being taken into account. It also involves a component of having values, feelings, and actions that DESERVE respect. Given that a person tries (We never succeed 100%.) to live his/her life based on universally accepted honorable values, he/she deserves to believe the he/she has value. IMO, sometimes, past experiences intervene, causing a person to doubt that he/she deserves to be valued. These are issues that must be dealt with before the person can take a stand that insists on being treated with respect by others.<p>Again IMHO, no two people can have a healthy relationship without mutual respect AND individual self-respect. If they want to rebuild a relationship, they must communicate the behavior that is causing them to lose repsect for the other. (Examples: The WS loses respect for BS who is clingy and needy. The BS loses respect for the WS who lies.) If, and only if, BOTH PARTNERS are willing to treat the other with respect, there is a chance for the R to succeed. <p>It should be obvious to everyone that a WS who continues to see OP is showing the most blatant disrespect for the S. The (disrespectful) behavior that the WS perceives from the BS that preceeded the A must also be considered. Once the sources of disrespect are identified and responsibility is accepted for the behavior, on the part of each partner, healing can begin. If the disrespect continues, i.e. if one partner's behavior continues to say, "You do not have any value to me." then, IMO, the other partner must make the decision to remove him/herself from the relationship or continue to live with the disrespect. At that time, another question arises. Why does the individual accept the disrespect?<p>This is such a significant question, TW. I think about it all the time. I understand why people of weak character show others disrespect; there is a character flaw. What I struggle with is why people accept, on a continuing basis, being treated disrespectfully.<p>Specifically to respond to your questions: You cannot MAKE someone respect you. Remember, people differ in character, perception of reality, and other issues that you cannot control. You choose to act in a respectable manner. If they don't respect you, it is NOT because you do not deserve to be respected! <p>You have self-respect by basing your life on a value system and a course of behavior that is respectable. You base your actions on choices that prove that you value yourself and that you value other people. What more can one do?<p>Personally, my choices are based on example in Judeo-Christian scriptures, but not everyone chooses these teachings. However, there are universally accepted standards on how to treat other human beings that work for everyone. <p>Love,
Estes<p>[ May 04, 2002: Message edited by: Estes49 ]</p>

I'm still working on this one.
Orchid; you've posed quite a challenge, this is harder that I thought it would be. So, not to appear totally indifferent, and to buy myself some more time, here's some stuff to throw you off the scent:<p>Respect, a very interesting subject. To start, here's the dictionary definition of "respect" (food for thought, thought-exerciser....as we read it, ideas come to mind....right?<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>
re•spect<p>Pronunciation: (ri-spekt'), [key] </pronkey.html>
—n.
1. a particular, detail, or point (usually prec. by in): to differ in some respect.
2. relation or reference: inquiries with respect to a route.
3. esteem for or a sense of the worth or excellence of a person, a personal quality or ability, or something considered as a manifestation of a personal quality or ability: I have great respect for her judgment.
4. deference to a right, privilege, privileged position, or someone or something considered to have certain rights or privileges; proper acceptance or courtesy; acknowledgment: respect for a suspect's right to counsel; to show respect for the flag; respect for the elderly.
5. the condition of being esteemed or honored: to be held in respect.
6. respects,a formal expression or gesture of greeting, esteem, or friendship: Give my respects to your parents.
7. favor or partiality.
8. Archaic.a consideration.
9. in respect of, in reference to; in regard to; concerning.
10. in respect that, Archaic.because of; since.
11. pay one's respects,
a. to visit in order to welcome, greet, etc.: We paid our respects to the new neighbors.
b. to express one's sympathy, esp. to survivors following a death: We paid our respects to the family.
12. with respect to, referring to; concerning: with respect to your latest request. <p>—v.t.
1. to hold in esteem or honor: I cannot respect a cheat.
2. to show regard or consideration for: to respect someone's rights.
3. to refrain from intruding upon or interfering with: to respect a person's privacy.
4. to relate or have reference to. <hr></blockquote><p>Now here is perhaps a simpler definition:<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>
Respect - Understanding
that all people and
things have value by showing
high regard and consideration for
self, others, community, and environment. <hr></blockquote><p>I'm thinking about what I respect and don't respect in general, the things I've done to deserve (or not deserve) respect, the things my WW has done to deserve it or not, and will try to make some sense of it.<p>Perhaps I'll come up with something of value here...

Good question...<p>For me, Respect and Admiration became big ENs for me. I think one of the reasons I was drawn into my A was that the OW picked up on these needs and fed them profusely.<p>I suppose over the years my wife had become just too comfortable around me. She became very careless about how she spoke to me and who it was in front of.<p>It's not like I bottled up my dismay when it would happen...she would blow me off by saying things like "you know I didn't mean it that way" or "you're being to thin skinned". She often contradicted me in front of the kids when I had to meter out fatherly authority (You're being too harsh!) (Reader note...I never spank my kids. The "harsh" comment came from me taking one kid's cell phone away because of abuse).<p>So while she said she respected and admired me, her behaviour said otherwise. <p>I think my affair has been a wake-up call for both of us. She has admitted that she now sees how the things she did were degrading. At the same time, I'm learning to express my appreciation for her in more tangible ways. We've both hurt each other alot in different ways.
I am rebuilding my respect for her because I see that even though she is truly devastated by my affair, she is now willing to admit that we have problems we need to work on. She has admitted that she had convinced herself that we were a "perfect" marriage and that she thought I made big deals out of nothing. She has surprised me in ways that I didn't think were possible since D-Day.<p>I know sometimes my posts seem to contain a lot of resentment toward my wife. I suppose that it's true...but she has amazed and astonished me in these last two months. She knows little about MB principles, but it seems like she is doing her own "Plan A" to win me back, even though I ended my affair. And it's working.<p>LowOrbit

WOW Estes, what a valuable presentation of what respect is.<p>Now, self-respect. Basically the same thing. One must treat him/herself as being a person whose needs and feelings have value. It means believing that you are worth being listened to and your feelings being taken into account<p>This really hit me between the eyes.....I do not fully know why I don't think my feelings count. Probably because of living with alcoholics for 50+ years, I have been programmed to be too tuned in to other people's feelings. I never knew what my feelings were but I am really getting better at discerning them. I still cannot express my feelings well but I am working on that too.<p>What I struggle with is why people accept, on a continuing basis, being treated disrespectfully<p>We stay in disrespectful situations cause they are comfortable....it is hard to learn new ways of relating. I know for me that God has been guiding me heavily to get regularly involved in Alanon. I resisted going to Alanon and would go off and on. The A has brought me to see Alanon as one of my prorities cause the similarities with alcohol addictions and infidetlity make this program a double header for me. I had preconceived ideas of how I thought Alanon worked and for a long time, I thought the program was to get me to accept alcoholism and learn to live with it. The program has nothing to do with the alcoholic. It is a place to look at myself and the effects of alcoholism on my life. Now I think I have an understanding that keeps me going and I am learning great principles. I also live by the Judeo-Christian scriptures and principles and I think the 12 steps are so biblical. <p>LowOrbit---great to hear of your repentive spirit. You and your wife WILL make it cause you both are seeing great and wonderful things. May God give you the power to live them out.

Hi Tossed ~<p>Here's my 2 cents.<p>We teach others how to treat us.<p>If you do not treat yourself with respect, by creating and holding to healthy boundaries that show yourself respect, then others will not respect you either.<p>In other words, if you put your own needs secondary to someone else, at your own expense (I am not talking about selfishness here, don't get confused) then no one else is going to do so.<p>The typical co-dependent puts their own needs second, expecting that if the other person really loved them, that they would reciprocate, by putting their needs second for his/hers. When that doesn't happen, the co-dependent ends up resentful and angry.<p>If we wait around for others to give us our respect and self-worth back, after giving it away, we'll be waiting a long time.<p>I define my own self-worth and my own self-respect. As a result, I have learned to draw boundaries that protect my needs and helps me to avoid disrespectful people or situations. Even if confronted by such a person or situation, my boundaries help me stay detached instead of emotionally drawn into chaos, and to choose the path that will protect me.<p>When you treat yourself respectfully, others believe that you deserve that respect. If you treat yourself as a second class citizen, thats all you'll ever be in their eyes too.

Respect comes from a sense of honor I believe. You look up to someone because they honorably treat others as well as themselves. I agree that before you repect anyone, you must respect yourself. The people I respect the most seem to be the ones who take responsibility and whom put the feelings of others above themselves. We are all guilty of not respecting someone else, which I believe means to intentionally or not intentionally hurt someone to a point where their self worth may be affected. Respecting someone means accepting. We accept that they are not perfect, that they have faults, but we can see past their faults and still see something honorable. I believe that respect is earned. By the way what do you think about this,it's something my therapist told me "the opposite of love is not hate-it is indifference." You see, hate is still an emotion towards that person, indifference is when you don't care, right?

Hi TW,<p>Great Thread!!! Well, here's my examples of respect. <p>Respect consititutes knowing one's place in regards to how we interact with others. We do not impose our interests at the expense of others. There are times when imposing our interests may be necessary but only for the benefit not the harm of others. Respect is a broad spectrum that covers those immediately around us and those around others (like their families). <p>
General: Respect for title/position (teacher, manager, police, etc.) While we may not know each personally, we respect their position. Some benefit of the doubt is given. When certain aspects of one's personality is revealed, then the respect can go up or down according with that added knowledge. <p>ex: Teacher caught doing drugs. Hm..... prior respect for that position is gone for that specific teacher but not for the entire profession. Unless the entire profession chooses to back that type of behavior. <p>
Work environment: Similar to general respect but since they are ones we associate with due to working closely with them, then there needs to be respect for the individual as well. That is why when there is respect, you do not have an A with a co-worker. <p>ex: Co-worker of same rank has been temporarily charged with higher responsibilities while the boss is out for 1 week. <p>Out of respect to the employees, the manager should clearly make his decision known to all affected ees with sufficient time so that any ee choosing can have a say. <p>Once final decision is made, clear instructions to the acting manager with well defined responsiblities need to be spelled out so that no disrespect to the employees are done. <p>All affected ees, must respect manager's decision and follow through. <p>Final point, all (manager, acting manager and employees) should know how to handle any negative recourse actions. Out of respect for all, this emergency plan should be spelled out and saved for when the manager returns or have 3rd party available to act as mediary. <p>Sounds corny? Well, this is how I run my dept. and it works. <p>Friends and relatives: Respect for them and from them is highly dependant on how we treat them. In my case when the A hit, I did tell my family and close friends. I also asked for their support of my decisions but also left the door open for their opinions since I did say that I would respect their opinions and they needed to then respect my decision. Not all may have agreed with what I have decided but I do have all their respect and likewise they have mine. <p>Immediate family: For me that is just my H and son. But I stressed respect to and from both. Also gave the same speech about them respecting my decisions and I would respect their opinions. <p>That gave me an advantage. I had already spelled things out, no need to worry about 'what should I say or do'? Also it eliminated a lot of heartache on all parties about my situation. I got the space and privacy I needed, their support and respect all at the same time. <p>Given the above categories, respect covers a whole range of people we deal with. When we stop showing respect in any of those areas, it shows up in our lives. Each of the people in those areas are affected and in many cases even more. So for a WS to not show respect to the family, it has a domino effect. Visible to many. <p>For me, I honestly believe that those 'words spoken at the right time' were like 'apples of gold in silver carvings is a word spoken at the right time for it' (Proverb). Those thoughts and words really were not mine (at the time my mind was to discombobbled - sp???). I had been praying hard and know I had help. <p>L.<p>[ May 05, 2002: Message edited by: Orchid ]</p>

Boy, you guys are deep....I have to read and reread this thread to "catch" everything. I have questions but have to go out so stay tuned.......