Well, I've been working hard at my marriage this past month - trying to fill his EN's and trying to stay positive - and trying to keep my mind on developing myself and not thinking about HER - although that's hard. My H seems quite happy - both with life and with me - on the surface, no-one would know there was anything wrong - but I have no idea now what's going on behind my back. My H is so much more affectionate with me - in small ways, and in bed - and he is touching me a lot more with little hugs and kisses. But no talking about anything - neither his feelings or my feelings, nor his thoughts about us or my thoughts about us. He has his third counselling appt on Tues, and then after that he has them lined up every week for the next 10 weeks. OW goes back to France 'for good' end of May.<p>I've been thinking and something has been bothering me - I have carried this around the whole of our married life and want to get it off my chest - it's something I have talked about before with my family, but going through all this is changing the way I look at things. My H has had 2 EA's this past year - but this is not a new thing for him. He is 45 this year and I will be 44 this month. We met when he was 27, and I was 26. I was just coming out of a bad relationship with an alcoholic - my H looked so together compared with the man I had just had to leave behind me, even though I know that man loved me.<p>What I didn't know, and only figured out over the next three years, was that my H was involved emotionally with a married woman who was 20 years older than him. We met in LA, and the MW was in the UK - so a lot of their R by the time I met him was long-distance. I met him and fell in love before I knew anything about her - but I saw a whole stack of letters by his bed, and her picture propped up on the lamp next to his bed. When I asked who she was he just said she was "his best friend".<p>It's a long, long story, but my H, then my lover, came and went in my life - he pursued me, then backed off emotionally - I was v confused by this, and hurt - my friends and family couldn't understand why I kept allowing him back into my friendship - I went to college and was successful on my BA course - but I was madly in love with him and longed for him to the point of sickness when he was out of my life. I was convinced this R with the MW was the source of his inability to make a commitment - she had some sort of emotional hold on him. This made me angry - she was married, with a home, children and a husband who loved her - he was only slightly older than her oldest child. He didn't deserve being strung along to meet her emotional needs when what he really wanted and needed was a home of his own, and children of his own - I watched him and saw the longing in his eyes when he played with my sister's and friend's children. He said many things to me that indicated he saw me as a person he could have a future with, so I was confused. I am American and he is English, so I put down a lot of his reserve to his Englishness.<p>I decided I needed to "give us a chance" - I asked him to keep "us" a secret - not to tell anyone - I didn't want her to know about us and try to influence his decisions about me. We became serious lovers and were very happy when we were together. But he never opened up to me about her - when she called, he took her phone calls into the other room and shut the door, and I could hear the affection in his voice. But he left her letters lying around - never tried to hide them - and in my anxiety, I read them, but never told him I had read them. They told me a lot about her - she was a very passionate person, and a very strong Christian - she obviously struggled with her feelings for him - she didn't know where to place him in her life - brother, friend, son - all of them - but the truth is he was more to her than that - in one letter she agonized over whether or not they were committing adultery - in another, she said "yes, I firmly believe we can be in love with each other and not lose our integrity" - those words now ring in my ears, as he is now trying to have the same kind of relationship with a younger woman.<p>What I now believe is that she fell into a long emotional affair with my H, starting when he lived with them as a surrogate family - he was 19 when he met them, and she was 39 - younger than I am now - she has freely shared with me that she and her H had problems in their marriage. Also, they shared a strong Christian faith - I honestly believe that she has diverted a lot of her passion into her faith - sometimes she got confused about this - she would say she 'would think about him, especially at Communion' - it's strange. <p>Well, this is a very long story - in the end, he went back to England to visit his parents, and while there, called and proposed to me on the phone - i was so afraid he wouldn't come back if I said no that I said yes, but we have to talk - he wrote me every day - and when he came back, he brought me not one ring, but 3 - one from him, one from his mother, and one from her. Inside I was upset - who was I marrying after all - the three of them, the two of them, or him? I was only prepared to marry him. After a few days, I tried to open the subject - I told him I was having problems, that I felt a little jealous of his 'friend' and that I hoped he felt he could tell me about her. He clammed up instantly. things did not improve. Eventually, I confessed to him that I had read her letters - by this time, his stuff had arrived from the UK, and her letters were falling out of books and papers all over the place - there were books from her given as presents, with her handwriting in them as dedications - her presence was unavoidable. I gathered up all these letters and put them by the side of his bed one night, and he did something with them - I have never found them again. A huge rift opened up between us. He felt I had betrayed his trust by reading his letters without his permission - he said he would have told me but I had jumped the gun. I said I couldn't marry him without being told the truth, since she was such a big part of his life - it was like being asked to go through a door for the rest of my life, in the dark - he should be honest and let me make my own choice knowing all the facts. He didn't seem able to handle this. Looking back, I see that even then, I had a commitment to Radical Honesty - that is what I have brought to my marriage from the beginning. In the end, nothing changed - the atmosphere soured between us, and I broke off the engagement.<p>We tried to stay apart but did not succeed. We didn't seem to be able to leave each other alone. He got another girlfriend. I got another job and tried to go on with my life. Eventually he moved back to the UK - then we wrote to each other - in our letters we tried to explain what had happened - finally he wrote to me that he had had a long talk with her and had made a "firm resolve" (oblique language again) - he asked me to come visit, and payed my way - I decided to go - I was in therapy and had this feeling that he was the one person I would feel immeasurable sad to see him leave my life. So I went - I met his brother and his wife (who's first comment to me was she hoped I got on better with "that *****" (the MIL) better than she had), and I met this MW and her family, and my H's parents. The MW and her H and family were some of the warmest, kindest people I had ever met - and the H was a very strong character, and he and his W very loving to each other. Then I met my H's parents. The contrast couldn't have been greater. I cried myself to sleep last night, feeling the depth of deprivation in that house. It all seemed to fall into place - I could see my H's terrible need to be loved and validated - and he had found this from this MW - she was a Christian, and had a very big heart. I know she was confused by her own feelings. I felt for her.<p>I flew home, and my H (lover) called me the next day and proposed a second time. And I said yes. I don't know what to say - I loved my H with all my heart, and accepted the need he had for love - I also respected her for struggling with her feelings and keeping her faith in Christ - I respected her H for the love he obviously had for her. I felt my H had forgiven me for reading her letters - I had been honest with him, so he must really love me.<p>We were married 6 months later - everyone was happy, we were happy together, everything seemed to fall into place. I still felt a little jealous of their closeness sometimes, but I watched his attachment to her dwindle and I knew that she supported his marriage in a healthy way. She and her family have been our closest friends and great allies in dealing with my H's parents. <p>But - there is this history there - unspoken - and my H has never talked about it, and I have never required it. Now - my H is going around falling in love with younger women - and I am wondering - did this set a pattern for him which he is now trying to repeat in his own way? Did this "friendship" set the seal of approval on this kind of "affair" for him? Did my acceptance of her lead him to believe I would eventually accept others, too?<p>I think at this stage in our lives, this MW now looks back and says her affection was "misplaced" - she has told my H that what he is doing has no place in a Christian marriage - she has been one of the ones to urge him into counselling - she knows all the problems with his parents.<p>But she has said things to me that bother me - that no-one can meet all of their partners needs - that I have to love him unconditionally no matter what - that I have a problem with anger - that sometimes love just happens when people aren't looking for it - that he will come back to me if I am "long-suffering". I don't know what to think. I no longer confide in her, because I detect a distance in her voice now - she keeps telling me that I have to realize I have failed him too - she says this no matter what I say - I don't feel I need to keep being told how much I have failed him from someone who failed her own H - but she had a H who stood by her instead of going out and having affairs. Oh........its all so mixed-up. I now don't know if some of the ideas he has about me have come from her, so I'm feeling very cautious.<p>What is love? I thought I loved my H with all my heart. Because I loved him, I accepted everything - "Everything works for the good for those who love the Lord." Up until now, I thought acceptance was a cornerstone of love. But is this really all my fault? Did I enter into something knowingly - am I complicit in his misunderstanding of committment? Did he ever really love me the way he should of, or had he already experienced the great emotional love of his life, and only wanted to settle down physically with someone and have children? Sometimes I think he is so mad at me because I have destroyed his fantasy - not just his fantasy with the present OW, but his whole fantasy.<p>Well, he is in counselling - and I have decided to get some professional bereavement counselling - I have already made the phone call - I lost my brother and sister-in-law both this last year and haven't been able to grieve either of them properly. <p>For anyone who reads my thread, I hope this helps you understand why I'm giving my H time to try to get somewhere in counselling. I love him and think he needs help. I just don't know who to really trust?<p>Is all this too wierd for you all? Has anyone else ever been through anything like this?<p>thanks for listening,
Odile

For me it is my wife, that had a rough childhood and is now repeating what her mother did, as have many of her siblings. Fortunately for you your husband is going through some counselling, and may want to discover what is worng with his thought patterns. I aggree with you being willing to give him some time for the counselling, but somewhere along the way you may want to also attend the counselling with him, to try and talk about some of your concerns. I hope you the best, but I do believe the road will be long and hard. You must find a way to get him to talk as time goes on, as the communication in your marriage must be strong for both of you to work through this. Good luck, and I would not put any merit in the information the other older married lady gives you, as she really wants what is best for him, but that does not mean she wants what is best for you.

Hello odile,<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>But is this really all my fault? Did I enter into something knowingly - am I complicit in his misunderstanding of committment? Did he ever really love me the way he should of, <hr></blockquote><p>Your H's behavior is not your fault. Choosing to marry him with your rather chaotic history is something you have to take responsibility for, but you married him in good faith. No, no, no, you are not complicit in his misunderstanding of commitment. He had that problem BEFORE you became involved.<p>Did he ever love you the way he should? Well, considering the lack of nurturing he got from his parents, maybe he never learned how to love anyone the way he should, and you are living with the fallout. <p>Let's hope that the counselor can help H understand why he is making the choices he does. You can have many satisfying years together if he does.<p>The EAs, the abusive behavior, being secretive, are all symptoms of his not knowing how to relate to women (read that <mother&gt [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] in a normal, emotionally intimate way. It's sad. If anyone is at fault for H's R problems, it is his parents. He had no role model to show him what unconditional love is. I suspect that his R with the older woman was a confused mess that even he does not understand. He probably confused romantic love and a craving of a mother's love. <p>Your best bet right now is to concentrate on your bereavement counselling and hang tight until OW goes back to France.<p>How are the boys doing, especially your little one?<p>Estes

Thanks everyone for your replies - it really helps - I remember someone saying here that when you're on the rollercoaster, sometimes you'd doubt your own sanity - sometimes I feel that way. My ultimate goal is for us to be in counselling together and I'm pretty sure this is what my H is aiming for too - but I've waked up to the fact that I need my own bereavement counselling to handle my own stuff, too.<p>Estes - thanks for replying - your input is always so clear - I do know that this love was part of his desperate need for a mother's love -even the OMW recognizes that now - I guess I have reached the point in my life where I can't deal with everyone else's problems anymore and am taking care of no. 1. By doing that, I'm a better mother to my own boys. The boys are doing v well - little one is enjoying life to the full again - sometimes they refer back to "when you and Daddy were fighting" but in general, they are happy. Little one, though, is very sensitive to being reprimanded, and when he fights with his brother, he now retaliates with resentment, and cries at the drop of a hat, saying "Everyone is blaming me for everything" - I have pointed this out to my H, who just writes it off as a stage he is going through - but I don't think so - I think that is down to what he went through. I really need to keep trying to give them a stable home.<p>Hope you are well,
Praying for you.
Odile