Here's most of my story for those who don't know, updates are below:<p>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=37&t=017468<p>(By the way, how do I do that link thing the way I've seen others do it?)<p>My husband is already talking about divorce and refuses to discuss our marriage issues and/or saving it, etc. I know from reading here that he is really in the fog - deep, thick, heavy, fog.<p>Since the separation (4/15), I've only really LB'd once and that was when he went nuts with the money and left me with squat. Does anyone feel they should be sainted for what you are doing in plan A? I have listened to him complain about me, blame me, telling me it's too late, telling me I drove him to the internet affair, etc. He, of course, still claims they are "just friends". And, I don't know anything - nor will he ever tell me anything, etc. etc.<p>Sunday morning, after a few days of no contact with me, he called and brought over the old computer so I would have one at home to use. He acted so-so normal, pet the dog, etc. I gave him a hug and kiss on the cheek and let him know how much I appreciate him. <p>I occasionally see him on AOL Instant Messanger and he will say "hi" and we will "chat" for a few minutes. I'm almost thinking I shouldn't even do that, but I want him to be able to trust me and at least rebuild some friendship while doing plan A. --- Any suggestions on this? It still saddens me so much just knowing that he is probably talking to or chatting with her at the same time.<p>I found an old "love letter" email he sent me over a year ago, acknowledging things he was going to change in his life to help better our life, etc. I cried and cried and cried reading it. I said "this is the real him," "this is how I know him to be." In this letter from a year ago, he said "you don't know what you've got until it's gone and I never want you to be gone,". God, it was SO HARD to read. <p>I just started writing and writing and writing. I edited it, re-read it, etc. and sent it to him along with the letter he sent me a year ago. We have always been able to send love notes via email throughout our relationship - it's been a good way for us to tell the other how we were feeling without getting an immediate negative reaction. <p>He took the letter ok. He called and we talked for an hour. I just listened and listened. No LB's - just listened. He went off on me here and there - but overall it was OK. I told him that I know that we can rebuild our marriage and that I was there for the long haul, etc. And, that I understood he needs his space right now and I respect that. He said "thank you". <p>He's sent a few "have a nice day" phone text messages to me here and there. And, even called last night and asked why I got off the instant messenger so quick - that he didn't want me to think he was purposely not responding, he was warming up some dinner. <p>I know that no matter what I'm going to be okay. I still have very terrible days - just terrible. Last Saturday I cried almost an entire day. Any advice on how to get out of that? I know it's normal and I even tell myself "you're going to be okay, you're going to be okay." But, sometimes nothing seems to work. <p>I spent two days this week on an exciting photo shoot for a freelance gig I have in addition to my regular FT job. I was in a historic area in a historic Bed n Breakfast. The two days flew by and I kept thinking " I can't wait to tell H about this b&b, he'll love it." Then I stop and think, I can't, he's not there. I ask him about his day and hear how everyone in his world has a problem - I mean everyone. I mention something about my two days and he doesn't even bite at it - not even a nibble. No "that's nice, that's intersting, nothing." Then I think about it, and it's always been that way. He never asks me about my day and gets annoyed at me when I ask him about his - God, it's just so strange.<p>If anyone is up for a discussion about this - any more advice, reading, etc. I'd really appreciate it. This board is wonderful. I hope someday my H can get on here and see we are not the only ones.<p>Hugs,
Llama<p>[ June 18, 2002: Message edited by: llama ]<p>[ June 24, 2002: Message edited by: llama ]<p>[ June 24, 2002: Message edited by: llama ]</p>

^^bump^^<p>llama:
sounds like you are doing pretty good on the LB front. Don't get discouraged if you fall off the wagon now and again...<p>as for crying... have you seen dr. about possibility of anti-depressant? others on the forum have used 'natural' products as well. I went on Celexa my first 4 months or so... helped me tremendously NOT cry ALL the time...<p>Have your read "Surviving An Affair?" I'd also recommend "Divorce Remedy" by Michele Weiner-Davis... once you have read them... then make a plan. A BIG part of BOTH of them is taking care of yourself and MOVING FORWARD... sometime the WS seeing and/or feeling you moving on w/out them shakes them up.<p>Good Luck,
Cali<p>ps... for the linking thing--put: the address/link<p>[ May 08, 2002: Message edited by: Cali ]</p>

Thanks Cali - <p>I'm just hanging in there. Thanks for your post. He has been out of town for a planned event yesterday and comes home tonight. His mom and stepdad have taken and/or picked him up from the airport. A month ago, he couldn't stand either one of them.<p>He has stopped seeing her therapist because she made a comment about his new "rolex" that he bought when he went to meet the internet "friend". He got mad and decided he doesn't need the therapist any more. He also was on Celexa for his anxiety and went off that (I think from the advice of his father) a few weeks back. <p>He doesn't have many friends, none of who could possibly be a good support system for him - and that worries me. Because we are such good friends. That's one of the hardest things I'm facing now is not having my best friend around to share things with. <p>Any idea where I can get help with "I" statements. I know this is something I need to work on. <p>I actually went lurking in some chat rooms a few days ago and it just freaked me out - how much everyone is talking about S. It was so dirty to me. I just don't get it. And, it hurts to think my husband has some other life I don't know about. <p>It also hurts to hear me being blamed for everything. He is clueless that when he was trying to meet my emotional needs that I was there for him more physically - which my frigidness had been wearing off since our vacation in March and I felt all the while that he was making an effort to meet my EN. I dunno - the whole thing just makes me nuts.<p>Any more advice?<p>Thanks,
Llama

Ilama,
No new advice but if your busting at the seams to talk about your photo shoot I will listen, sounds really interesting to me.
L

<p>[ May 14, 2002: Message edited by: llama ]</p>

Well, he came home from out of town plan trip late last night. I decided NOT to answer the phone if he called or tried to make contact in fear that he would ask me for a divorce. He was with his father for 2 days and this is the only support his dad (nice dad, huh?) has given him - "just get a divorce. be happy!" Of course his dad has had not one but two failed marriages both of which he was a WH and cheated.<p>He was online this morning, so I messengered him "welcome back, how was your trip?" he answered back "great, had fun, etc." And that was about the extent of it. His mom picked him up at the airport last night and I'm hoping the two of them chatted somewhat. <p>Sometimes I don't even think this is about the OW who he says is just his friend, not his type, etc. I really believe that sometimes, although I really haven't pushed anything about the subject for weeks. <p>My therapy is going great. I like my new therapist, I have seen her 4 times now - which means it's almost been a month that we have been separated. <p>I'm sitting on the fence about telling our priest who married us. My H really respects him, but I'm sure he doesn't want to see him yet. But, somehow I feel the need to talk to him, but don't want that to be a major LB to my H. Even though I'm plan A'ing, I still feel like I'm walking on eggshells.<p>Next weekend he is going out of town (we were both supposed to go originally) to his grandfather's memorial service (he died earlier this year). And, I know truly that he never really mourned the loss of his grandpa. He told me last week that he wanted to do this on his own. I said I was sorry that I couldn't be there, and that I would be here for him if he needed a friend.<p>Thing is my H doesn't have that many true friends. Honestly, it's hard being his friend sometimes, so I can understand why. <p>It's hard when I don't talk to him for a few days. I get back into the sad state again. <p>I know in my heart that I'm going to be okay and I'm looking for other support during this time like MB, support groups, etc. I've been a christian/catholic my whole life, but never really prayed before. I've been doing ALOT of that lately. <p>That's all for now. Everyone's support here is greatly appreciated.<p>Thank you,
Llama

I just talked to his mom who picked him up last night at the airport. He keeps talking about quitting his job and "traveling". His mom asked about OW and he says "she's a nice lady and I consider her a friend, we're not in love or even physical with each other." His mom seems to believe this.<p>However, he said she was going to come to visit him later this month - ugh! Geez, this fog thing is so UNREAL. I keep thinking...who is this guy and what did you do with my husband?<p>I also know that this is just what he is saying today and tomorrow it could all change - who knows. <p>Has anyone here dealt with a WS who actually moved away from the city you lived in? And, later came back? I know he has alot of figuring things out for himself - alot he is blaming on the marriage, but I think with enough time away from each other, he's got to realize that it wasn't all the marriage or me that was the problem.<p>Llama

Hi Llama:
Just wanted to check in with you and tell you you're not alone. My H has been living w/ OW for 7 months now (since Oct.), and I got the same story...that they were "just friends" and he had "feelings for her", but wasn't in love, etc. Hmmmm...left his wife of 11 years to move in w/ someone I had never even heard of?<p>The first 3 months of separation were torture. I cried every day; I still cry maybe once a week. But, life does look a little brighter as time goes on. Believe me, even 7 months later, I still hope that he wakes up one day and says "What the hell have I done?!" and comes to his senses. <p>My H and I have virtually no contact, but when we do, I try to be upbeat and positive - and I know how hard that act is. <p>Anyway, just wanted you to know I totally understand how you're feeling.

Thank Limu -<p>As hard as it is to take these baby steps, it's also nice to know that I'm not the only one. I am so sorry for your situation though. Hang in there and feel free to keep in touch with me if you need to vent, etc.<p>Llama

Well, here we go again. <p>H and I have been chatting by phone and by Instant Messenger since my last post. No LB'ing on my end. Lots of it on his end.<p>He told me he went to see a lawyer yesterday and it killed him. He said he didn't want to be there, but wanted to know if we didn't make it if I would want the house. I feel like he wants to talk to me but at the same time, he doesn't really ask anything about me. <p>This morning he calls early to tell me he made a mistake with the joint checking account and I said "oh man". He went bizerk. "Don't say Oh Man, I'm calling to tell you about the problem and how I'm going to fix it." I assured him i just said "oh man" because I had wrote a check on that account to cover one of our credit card bills that we agreed to pay on. It seemed to cool down and we said ok and goodbye.<p>He called again saying he was able to cancel the transaction and everything should be ok. I was obviously worried about the money and i'm sure it sounded that way. I said ok. See ya. <p>Then he called again. (This is a regular issue for him, the constant calling and I know I need to set some boundaries here.)At this point I was boiling over. Thinking about all the money he has spent since we have been separated 4/15, including the trip to see OW the weekend before our anniversary. And I said of course I was upset and worried, he pushed my buttons hard and I got really mad. I tried to keep my cool, but started crying and was trying to hold back from letting him know that.<p>I said something about being a good listener to him these past few weeks and that I'm trying very hard to work on my stuff and understand his hurt, etc. He never once has asked me how I feel about anything and if I begin to tell him in "I Statements" he changes the subject or says "I can't talk about that now." I have not once brought up the internet W or his visit with her. <p>I got mad and told him to go ahead and file, that I was tired of his selfish behavior and mean-ness towards me. I feel like a doormat. He got upset and said he wants to hear about my feelings, but he wants me to write them down because he can't talk to me. Translation: he can't hear what I'm saying with an open ear and not interrupting me and getting defensive. <p>He called back AGAIN. At this point I was crying. He asked me if I really wanted him to file and I said No. But I was feeling hurt because it has just sounded lately like he could take me or leave me. That simple - leave or work on it. <p>I asked him why can't he listen to me like I have been listening to him? He was at work by then and couldn't talk. I asked him to think about that. <p>I wrote him an email to be accountable for my behavior this morning, it says:<p>Dear H,<p>It must have felt to you as though I was mad at you this morning when I said "oh man" given that I have done that in the past. The only thing I can say about my reactions to you today is I am very scared. In the future I'll try not to react before you are finished talking and if you hear me doing it again, kindly let me know and I will stop. I don't want to do it because you think it is wrong and it hurts people I love, especially you. I appreciate that you called me to tell me about it honestly and came up with a solution to fix the mistake.<p>I feel hurt when I look at our bank account and see how much money was spent in (OW's city)because I think it means that you don't care about me. I feel neglected when you avoid me because I think it means you don't love me anymore. I feel angry when you get loud with me and continue to blame me for the mistakes I have made in the past because I think it means I am a fool and inadequate. I feel afraid when you start talking about splitting our property because I think it means that you are already counting your part of the money so you can move on in life without me. I feel afraid to share any of my feelings because I think you may shut the the door permanently on me.<p>This is all I am ready to share right now. Please know that I am trying to be there for you, but I also need time to work on me while we are apart. <p>Love,
Me<p>So, now he just calls me at work and says how sorry he is for what happened this morning. I said I was sorry too and that I wrote him a letter. We talked a bit. He says that being separated really sucks and I agreed. He says it seems divorce would relieve us of this terrible feeling. Then he said even if he did come back, he doesn't think he could come back to our house. He believes that is part of the problem because it is small. I said I understood, but I thought we could look at what we could afford to do with the house prior to buying a larger one and see if we can make it accomodate our needs a little better. He disagrees. <p>Then he says he feels he has worked on himself already and that he is who he is, etc. I said a few things about how am I supposed to know that he has been miserable if he is telling me how happy he is? I'm not a mind reader. He listened. <p>I started to read him the letter over the phone but he kept getting interrupted - very typical also. Can't go anywhere or do anything without the damn phone ringing. Very frustrating.<p>I never finished reading the letter and thanked him for calling. This is just torture. I just want to tell him "H, we have lost the money on the apartment already. Whether you live there or at home doesn't really matter. Decide if you want to work on us and let's do it. We don't have to be separated for 6 months (length of lease)." I don't feel that OW is a threat to me. It's not a case of her vs. me. I'm pretty sure of this. <p>His grandfather's memorial service is this weekend. I was un-invited because of our separation. I'm sure it's going to be extremely hard for him as this is the first person close to him that has ever died. <p>Feedback please.
Llama

Here's link advice, then I'll read and see what else I can offer.<p>You can go back and Edit the post (like your post at the top of this thread). Once you're in Edit... Here's what your link will look like... see where your link info is printed twice? I bolded the second part I'm talking about. Replace that second one with whatever you'd like - usually the title of the actual link.<p>[U?RL=http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=37&t=017468] http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=37&t=017468[/URL]<p>So it will look like this....<p>[U?RL=http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=37&t=017468] My Story[/URL]<p>OK, hun, let me mull a bit, and re-read when I get home. I'm sure some others will be along... and I'll see what I can do... k?<p>In the meantime... {{{{{{llama}}}}}}}<p>[ May 14, 2002: Message edited by: Faith1 ]</p>

Hi Llama - I think I'll start using "seasoned" to describe myself rather than my age. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>FWIW, here's my take on your situation:<p>I suggest you get on anti-depressants immediately. Why do I say this? Because you are so wrapped up in what your H is doing that you probably cannot work on yourself or take care of yourself. You are letting him pull your strings and this is completely normal for one who hasn't gotten control of their emotions yet.<p>See, the absolute best thing you can do regarding interaction with your husband is to become more aloof and less reactive, IMHO. I believe he keeps calling you and doing the things he's doing with you because he's scared $hitle$$ that he's gonna lose you - and he oughta be.<p>So, I suggest you get on the meds pronto and start treating him with some indifference. Stop reacting to every current in the river. When you're always there, you give him reassurance that you're gonna STAY there. You have to get over this hump before you can gain ground in Plan A on yourself. If he's acknowledged your improvements already and he's driving you nuts, the only other choice is to put your foot down and Plan B - in effect, saying "leave me alone until you're REALLY ready to work on our marriage."<p>I'll wait to see how this goes over with you before saying anything else.<p>WAT

Hi Llama,<p>Another seanson, well done BS here. <p>I back up what WAT said. You need to let him stew in his mess. The thing about not wanting to come back to the house is probably more that he does not want to be reminded what he gave up. You are right about his wanting to work on the M has nothing to do about your current living conditions. <p>My H said the same thing. For me that was babble. I told him go find a better place to live. Whether that displaces his family or not, don't worry because I am learning to live on the street. That will not bother me.
Abandoning my child me and displacing others would bother me but I am not doing that he is. <p>Learn to recognize the babble and stay away from making decisions based on it. When he says something reasonable, then have a conversation. <p>Please read up on plan B and the effects. If you need the link, let me know. It is around here somewhere. <p>L.

Thanks WAT and Orchid<p>I know you are both right. And - really - I was doing what you suggested. It's just that sometimes, as you know, the pot is boiling over and you lose it. I am taking care of me. So much that it is driving him crazy. He's mad because the neighbor couple who I always tried to do things with have befriended me and have been there. They have been great - even mowed my lawn to my surprise - which drove him nuts and made him mad. Funny, isn't it?<p>About anti-depressants, my therapist thinks I don't need them. I have to agree with her. I've only had two bad days from hell during this whole month. I'm thinking that does not warrent anti-depressants, but I'm always open to it if I feel the need. <p>You are both right, I do need to take care of myself and not worry about him so much. I need to NOT answer the phone every morning when he wakes me up. Let him wonder, you know. <p>I'm fortunate to have a super support system and friends who are here for me keeping me busy as hell. To the point I feel bad about leaving the poor pooch at home. (That would be the real four-legged furry pooch.)<p>I know that if he was through (or I for that matter), he wouldn't keep calling. It's the control thing. I'm better than that - I just have to keep reminding myself of that. <p>It's funny, I've been out with friends twice in the last week - and you'd swear I had a neon sign on my head that reads "newly separated - let this woman know she is still desirable" I know that sounds so nuts, but I have to admit, it's been quite an ego boost. <p>Coming home alone is still difficult - but I haven't cried myself to sleep in 3 weeks. That's a good thing, right?<p>I question myself alot lately. My heart says "you can do it - work on your marriage" my head says "get the hell out of this thing". It's a constant struggle - but I think I'm doing okay.<p>I appreciate hearing from everyone here. Between MB website, my friends and therapist - I'm set as far as support goes. Thank you Thank you Thank you. PLEASE keep posting for me. It, all of it, helps tremendously.<p>Thank you,
Llama

WAT & Orchid are right on target.<p>The one thing I'm wondering about is how you became uninvited from his grandfather's memorial service. I'm not clear if it is past or coming up, if it is still coming up...your H's family became your family when you married. Would it be uncomfortable to tell your H you would like to attend?<p>2 months in our 1st separation my H's uncle died, and I asked to go with H & our kids to the funeral, across state. I think my H then realized that I do care for his family. I'd been critical of some of his family members' behaviors, not finishing high school, out of wedlock kids, heavy smokers. It wasn't the turning point in our troubles, but it was a positive effort.<p>Secondly, if you don't want to go on anti-deps, take care of yourself, exercise, outside if possible, both offer a natural serotonin boost and I find walking nearly everyday helps manage my stress and anxiety. In the bad times, I went to the gym and lifted weights, and that was good too.<p>And, watch out for going out and attracting predators...when your WS is not only NOT meeting your ENs but not even being nice, anybody can seem nice and/or attractive. Careful.

llama,
Hi! Hey as awful as you feel sometimes let me assure you , you are doing great!
I do agree with the others about making it more difficult to access you. Turn the ringer off on the phone for a couple days. When he asks say "I was so tired from going out so much I wanted an extra 10 minutes sleep" Then change the subject.
The pooch will be ok, just give him an extra piece of food and all will be forgiven. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]
Keep up the good work, you are awsome!

Lor -<p>I told him I'd like to go to his grandfather's funeral this weekend up east, but he felt he needed to do it alone and that's what he wanted. I didn't want to convince him otherwise. I had told him weeks ago that even though we were "broken" right now that we are still a family. But he called his dad, sister and grandma and that's what he decided. I think he feels it will be less drama if I'm there. I think it will be more because I'm not there - but he'll have to learn that himself. <p>Walking helps alot and Buddy (pooch) loves it even more than me. I have a great walking buddy neighbor who I've become friends with more since the separation. Of course, that makes steam come out of H's ears. He's VERY jealous about that.<p>Haven't heard from him today. I know that's a good thing. But I'd rather have heard from him and then I would have had the choice NOT to answer the phone. Is that silly? I think I would have heard from him if the letter I had sent had really upset him. He's the kind of guy with a short fuse (like you probably haven't noticed that already from my posts, lol). If the letter was making him mad, he would have called immediately. <p>Therapist appointment tomorrow. Working on making some plans for tonight. Keeping myself pretty busy these days. <p>Thanks for your thoughts and kind words.<p>Llama

Wednesday Update -<p>No calls. He was going to go to dinner with him mom before going out of town for the funeral so they could talk, etc. He feels the house is one of our problems and I believe is wanting to know if I am open to selling it when/if we start re-building. Of course I am - we DO need a bigger house. <p>He's a tester. To him it's about knowing that I will be willing to get another house is sayint the same thing as I AM committed to rebuilding our relationship. Make sense? (I know. I know.)<p>Our DSL box that is very sensitive was unplugged or dropped by our a/c installer. H is in apartment, not house. I knew he had a softball game last night and called and asked "would you have any time before you go out of town to look at the computer, etc." He said "sure, I'll check up with you after my game tonight". I say okay.<p>Meantime on phone, he calls fifteen minutes later saying he could probably walk me through it. I say OK, I think it may be more than that. He says "well I have time to do it now!" (in that tone). I say "i'm on the other line, can you call me after your game?" He says in the tone "fine, talk to you later" and hangs up. Talk about frustrating.....UGH!<p>He calls after the game and comes by to look at computer and cannot get it working. I say "hey, no problem, we'll get it working later, etc." I fixed him a soda, etc. He can't get the dial up to work either. So I get out of his way and go to the living room, sitting on couch. He comes in and says he'll look for another part/plug and try again before he leaves for the weekend. I say thanks, I appreciate the effort. He gives me a kiss on the cheek and leaves. Then he comes back in frustrated because he forgot something. Then leaves again more frustrated.<p>Two minutes later he calls and says "I came all the way over there to help you out and what did I get? NOTHING!" I said "What are you talking about?" He says "you could have walked me to my car or something". HELLO? I'm thinking, AM I A MIND READER????? I asked that if he wanted me to walk him to the car, he could ask me. <p>I'm seeing my therapist today. I need a break, perhaps a week or so of no contact. I can't take this treatment. It's obviously HIM right now and not ME. I feel I'm doing everything I possibly can to give him his space and plan A and it still doesn't seem to be enough. I cried for a minute and then I was just plain mad.<p>Fog Fog please go away. Are there any plan A type letter recommendations about just taking a week of no contact? Do I just start doing it without telling him?<p>Thanks,
Llama

Saw therapist this morning. I sent H a letter asking for a week off from conversation - it has been too stressful for me and I needed time to work on me, etc. <p>All for now,
Llama

I'm bumping this up myself. Here's the letter I sent to H yesterday. <p>Dear H -<p>My feelings for you have not changed – I love you, I want to rebuild our marriage, to meet each other’s needs and avoid hurting each other. <p>However, our conversations over the last month have really been very stressful for me and I need a break for a week from the phone, email, IM, etc. until next Friday, May 24th. <p>Also, in an attempt to keep our conversations, respectful – when we do talk, if I feel like I’m being attacked or disrespected, I will let you know and I will hang up. We can re-visit the conversation at a later time. I am willing to talk about any issue that comes up, but only in a respectful way. <p>Please honor this request and understand it is not intended to be mean or insensitive. I need some time to work on my stuff and protect the love I have for you. <p>I get this one from him this morning -
"i will be busy on the 24th all day and all weekend so i will talk to you in a few weeks...." he also called and left a message last night at home saying he could honor my request. Also I think that his "friend" is coming to visit next weekend - but it's only a guess.<p>THEN he calls and says "you have a minute?" The 20 second call ended with him hanging up and sending this message via email (mind you, no LB'ing on my end)<p>"you want your own space that is fine....stay out of mine then....you dont want to talk to me then stay off of messenger and dont e mail things to me anymore then. It is convient that you dont want to talk to me after you ask for my help. I agree lets not talk because our conversation have been ugly on both our parts.
guess you wont be ther during the weekend like you promised.....
dont reply cause i am leaving the office now"<p>I can't take it anymore. I'm now NOT going to answer my own phone at work and let voicemail get it. I am trying to work on me and quit worrying about walking on eggshells with him. Will he ever get it?<p>Venting - sorry. Suggestions anyone?