Hooray for Llama. You are so strong! I agree with space. I see changes. You aren't at his beck and call anymore and you continue to be loving and supportive.
Maybe he is panicking because the effects of him depleting your LB for him are starting to show.
What is this with them always wanting to have their cake and eat it too!?
I think you are a fabulous gal, staying strong in the face of his fog.
3 cheers for Llama!
Love ya,
Layli

Layli - You're a sweetheart. I've been keeping up with your posts, hang in there! Your constant support is uplifting - THANK YOU LAYLI!!!!<p>Space - Thanks for your response! I know you're going through alot of "foggyness" too. Have a good weekend.<p>I'll be back on Monday.<p>Llama

You know. I used to like roller coasters. Lol. I waas really down and I went out with my friend and we had the best laugh. This might have been wrong but we acted out this whole, "I don't know why I am so shocked about him wanting to be with OW. Look at me and then look at her. Me no kids, good job, good personality. Her 4 kids , 3 different fathers what a catch." It was hilarious and a total tension breaker. I laughed so loud and the absurdity of it all hit me. Don't think I am horrible. I think it was the writer in us. I just needed a little humor. I am finding it goes a long way.
Hugs and love to you.
Keep it up chicky [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img]
Layli

Thanks Layli girl - another crazy friday night with H. I'll post more later. Just wanted to thank you for your post. I say stuff like that all the time to put things into perpective.<p>Hugs,
Llama

***WEEKEND UPDATE***<p>I feel like a television reporter, lol! Well Friday WH tried to call several times and because of how our conversations have been going, I have been anxious about taking them. AFter walking with my neighbor friend, he called about 10:15 p.m. and I answered (someone slap me!). Chit chat chit chat, I voice that I've had a LONG day, funeral, etc. and was pretty tired. We said goodbye and then the craziness started. He called and started "going off" cursing, etc. about me putting him second and not making any effort (hello?). Here's the thing. My H is the all or nothing / black or white kind of guy. When he's ready to do something, everyone else needs to drop what they're doing and do whatever with him. I've lived my life this way now for several years and this is how I DO NOT want to live anymore.<p>AFter he became extremely disprectful, I politely told him I was hanging up. He called about 6x and left two mean voicemails. I called him back and said this was all so uneccessary, can't he just respect the fact that I'm tired and we can continue conversation (which wasn't anything deep or about relationship)another time when I was a bit more fresh/awake. <p>I told him SAturday morning that I need some space. I'm feeling much better without him than with him in any way. (Is this normal?) I'm really feeling like I don't want him back? (Is that terrible?) I know I love him and care for him, but somehow it's not feeling like it's enough. <p>We chatted on IM this morning for a bit. He is still SO angry and bitter, and admitting it. Now he says he wants to see our priest. I'm not sure what this is about, although I will set up a time with him so we can see him. <p>His life is in a downward spiral. I don't really want any part of it. He's messing up at work and "going off" on people there. He's looking for whatever company will hire him so he can just resign and leave. He's racked up credit card debt. He's in an apartment he can't afford. All his choices. And somehow he's thinking I have it made because I'm still in the house. (Can you say I'm paying for everything, mortgage, insurance, etc. for a house with one person living in it on my salary?) "I have it made?" That is a joke. But you know what? "I'm going to make it!"<p>I'm so proud of myself for not yelling at him, going off, cursing, whatever. No matter what happens, I will know that I'm the better person for it. No matter how much he blames, says mean stuff, etc., Funny thing is, I think one of the things that makes him so mad is that he's finally seeing what he wanted and he's not there for it. And, I think he's worried that he's losing me. Truth....he is. <p>I want to move on with my life with ME - Llama. I want respectful relationships in my life. I want children. I want to continue living in our wonderful house (that he now hates, although he picked it out, neighborhood and all). I want to continue fulfilling my dream (which was OUR DREAM or so I thought).<p>As I have said in previous posts, the A is just one thing in his life that is going on. I believe he is dealing with anxiety, depression, anger issues, etc. And, these are NOT all due to our marriage. They've been present in our entire relationship. They are things I accepted in the beginning that I just cannot accept now. <p>I know this post probably reads like a downer, but I feel really good. I'm energetic. I'm busy. I'm doing stuff that I want to do - and have always wanted to do, but never did. And, I'm okay with ME - LLama. <p>What's the line from that Helen Reddy song? "you can bend but never break me, cause it only serves to make me more determined to achieve my final goal and I'll come back even stronger, not a novice any longer cause you've deepened the conviction in my soul" or something like that. (Yes, it's from "I Am Woman")<p>Anyone been here and done that? Faith1, WAT - when did you know? <p>Llama<p>I

llama,
I saw this a while ago, but wanted to think for a lil bit.<p>First, your feelings are a natural consequence of the separation, H's abusive behavior, and your individual growth.<p>ok... here's my opinion... <p>I think you handled things pretty well this weekend, but from your story, we can't tell your tone of voice, the whole conversation, etc. It's great to show strength, and it really does make some WS's *wonder* - or even *angry* - that we actually have a life of our own. But, be careful that your tone of voice is not an LB, and be careful about pushing him away. From what I'm reading, I think you did fine. So my little warnings are really just for you to think about. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Check your love bank. Steve Harley would ask you on every phone call, "How's your love bank?" If you need to Plan A little longer, which I THINK you need to do, becuase it seems that H is noticing changes, then you may need to do some things to protect your love bank balance. Pull out old pictures, cards, stroll down memory lane, etc. If your love bank drains completely, then recovery will be VERY difficult, if you get there. <p>I believe your love bank is dangerously low.<p>I think you need to be preparing for Plan B. Have you written your Plan B letter? Have you thought through the logistics? Writing the letter, and thinking seriously about it will HELP you sort out if you are ready or not.<p>The basic criteria for Plan B-time, is love bank draining, AND A continuing (or abusive behavior). <p>I also find it interesting that my XH is a very extreme person as well. Everything is all or nothing to him. Once he's done with something, he's done. If he's interested in something, he's all about it. This is one reason for his 100 mph move towards D. Now that the A is over, he is 100 mph being my friend. (kind of annoying, since i was so used to being without him! again - natural conesquence of him draining my love bank)<p>So, thinka bout plan B soon. Your H may be like mine, and head straight back to YOU (100mph [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] ). SO if you can hold on to some remaining love, and avoid divorce, you may be surprised at the marriage you can rebuild.<p>Don't lose hope. Keep the door open, k?

Thanks Faith!<p>I needed to hear that. Yes, my love bank is low - extremely low right now. I don't think my tone is a LB, but I'm not sure. I'm not acting too aloof or anything. My "old" tone was a definite LB. Honestly, every time he's called, I should NOT have answered the phone because I was extremely tired. I think deep down, I'm questioning what I really want and I'm not sure I'm wanting him. I'm not sure what can happen to make me feel any better or more secure in our relationship.<p>I'll post more later,
Llama

Hello llama,
Yes I stop in from time to time just to take a peek at who is posting what. I have mixed feelings about your update. I am very happy your starting to feel better but it does make me feel bad to hear your husband is becoming less a part of your life. Remember I am a FWS and if my wife gave up on me I don't what would of become of me or what I would of missed out on (a happy marriage). I know she is happy she didn't give up on me.<p>Ask yourself this: Can I feel this way with my H in my life? I almost get the impression your starting to think your life is getting better because your H is gone. Are things going better because you made them better? If so why can't you and your H make things better together? Do you want things to go back to the way they where before this whole mess started? What can you do to feel good about yourself and have a great M? You don't have to answer the questions because I think I know them already (because you're here at MB). <p>NO your feelings are not terrible. I can imagine feeling that way, you both have been through a lot the past few months. Do these feelings mean you should end your M? I don't think so. I say this because you still love him. Sounds to me like he loves you too. People have feelings like this, and once you learn this you can except it and take actions to deal with them.<p>Your H needs help big time! If he is not happy your marriage will never be happy. I am going to guess he blames everything/everyone besides himself for his misery. I used to do this and it got me nowhere! Is he still in IC? Are you both in MC? I sure hope so.<p>Your doing great with the no LB! See it does help to keep your cool and think things out before you jump in. If your husband can learn this I honestly believe you two will make it out of this together! Let me ask you a few more questions, these I would like you to answer for me if you would. It might help me help you some.<p>Does your H know you want to work out your marriage?
Do you think he believes it?
Have you come to terms with your part of your marital problems?
If your still in MC how does that go?
Have you asked him to read surviving an affair?
Have you asked your husband to come on MB?<p>Sorry my post is all over the place I am just having a super busy day. Hang in there! I will check in on you later.<p>LHM<p>[ June 17, 2002: Message edited by: Love_Her_Madly ]</p>

Great questions LHM!

Thinking of you Llama. stay strong girly.
Love,
layli

LHM -<p>I'm so glad you stopped in - I was hoping I'd hear from you. Your wisdom and guidance has meant alot to me.<p>First to answer your questions:<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Does your H know you want to work out your marriage?
Do you think he believes it?
Have you come to terms with your part of your marital problems?
If your still in MC how does that go?
Have you asked him to read surviving an affair?
Have you asked your husband to come on MB? <hr></blockquote><p>Since day 1 - I have told my H through conversation, email, and IM that I wanted to work on the marriage.<p>I believe he does believe me, but he hasn't wanted to this whole time. He dropped out of IC after he returned from his first trip to OW city. The therapist (who he'd seen for over a year) made a comment about his new Rolex (yah - you read that right!). He got all bent out of shape (typical) and dropped her.<p>I have come to terms with my part in our problems. Almost immediately in fact. Remember, I asked him to take the couch or another place to live until we got help PRIOR to discovering OW and internet affair. I found out about the A a few days later (he was on a trip with his dad) and then felt opposite and didn't want to lose him. Our problems are WAY MORE than this A. This A is small on our list of problems.<p>We haven't been going to MC in over 8 months. Things (I thought) were much better. He continued to go. I started IC for me right after d-day and my therapy is going great.<p>I read Surviving An Affair. My H won't read it. I'm not making an assumption here. He knows I read it, I told him about it. He has high anxiety and is a little ADD - reading books are NOT a part of his life. He bought Mars/Venus when we first separated saying he was going to read it and to no avail.<p>I've told him about a website that I visit (MB) that has really helped me alot and that I felt would help us. He didn't bite at the bait and I've brought it up several times. At this point - I fear what he would do if he read my posts. He will only retain what he wants to and not look at everything. I have expressed to him my fear of his reactions and he is still in denial (always has been) about this. The pattern of his angry behavior is very similar to the pattern of abuse. He "goes off", then feels remorseful, honeymoon phase, then it happens again. It is because of all of this that I considered leaving my marriage prior to d-day. Then after d-day, I felt so bad, hurt, etc., that I didn't want to lose him. <p>I'm now feeling that he's realizing he is losing me. I'm not sure what could happen for me to commit myself to making this work (sorry, have to be honest here). He is an unhappy person who needs to seek some professional help. He has relied on me to make him happy and in essence that has made me very unhappy. <p>I know that we could work this out and be good again - but it will take two of us and he is NOWHERE near facing his demons and working hard on this. At this point, I want to be amicable with him so if we do divorce that it won't be a nightmare.<p>I could write a book about this whole thing (as many of us can) but there are lots of facets I don't even mention here - like his terribly controlling abusive father who would LOVE to see me suffer. And I worry that H will rage and try to be a BIG jerk if we divorce and it's not HIS idea to do it. I know that sounds childish, but I am scared and I don't want to lose my home or security.<p>My H has years of work ahead of him and that's when he is actually ready to work on him. I'm working on me and feel very good about it. My H does need to begin working on his stuff before we can even get to OUR stuff. <p>I feel bad LHM about the state he is in. I want to pull him out of the quicksand, clean him up, etc., but I cannot do that this time. I've done that for years and I need to see that he wants to do it himself<p>Yesterday I sent him an email expressing some of my feeling in a non-LB way. I asked for some time. His response was harsh - "you want space, then FINE! I don't want to communicate either!" etc. Very typical of him - always a reaction. This just wears me down and I'm done with being worn down.<p>Honestly, I don't know what will happen. I told him that I would see the priest with him, but I swear he just said that because he wants to keep stringing me on. He won't mention seeing the priest again for months. I'm the best one at reading my H and I'd bet $100 that is what will happen. <p>I'll check in later today. Thanks again for your support and feedback.<p>Llama Hhugs,
Llama

Hello llama,
You said something that was interesting.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I feel bad LHM about the state he is in. I want to pull him out of the quicksand, clean him up, etc., but I cannot do that this time. I've done that for years and I need to see that he wants to do it himself.<hr></blockquote><p>I truly believe that we humans are creatures of habit. You say you have been picking him up, fixing his life, and carrying his load for years now. Do you want him to change his learned behavior in one day? If so I am sorry to say this will never happen. I am also gonna say your partially to blame for it....<p>Let me tell you about someone I know. This married couple we know have been together for about 10 years. The W did everything for the family. She was in charge and she loved it. Of course the H loved it and enjoyed that his W would carry most of the family load. Ten years later she decides she want to go back to school and get her masters degree. Good for her. She now starts to think the house and family can still be run in the same manor as it was before she started school. But it's going to take the help of her H. Well to make this story a little shorter it didn't! She started to despise her H because of the lazy sloth he had become. It got pretty nasty. She asked my W for some advise. My W (the smartest one in my M) stepped back and took a look at what was going on. And explained to her how she was to blame for some of his behavior. So get this, she listens to what my W is saying and modifies her behavior and attitude towards her husband. Things are starting to work out for them as we speak. See she couldn't make her H do anything but she could change her behavior which effected the way her husband reacted. Now her H is willing to do more and is starting to change his ways...<p>You can't make your husband go to IC (from what I read he needs) but you might be able to influence him to want IC. Think about it long and hard, I mean really really think about it. Not about how you can change him but how you can change you so it has an effect on him! Try things out and see what happens. If the results are good keep doing it if they are bad don't make the same mistake.<p>I will check in on you later...

LHM -<p>Thanks for your reply. First to clear up something:<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I truly believe that we humans are creatures of habit. You say you have been picking him up, fixing his life, and carrying his load for years now. Do you want him to change his learned behavior in one day? If so I am sorry to say this will never happen. I am also gonna say your partially to blame for it....<hr></blockquote><p>I know we are creatures of habit. Something that my H has had his own life is "his way." Remember, there are alot of things he expects of everyone around him. It has been expected of me in the past to fix whatever problem he was having. I haven't been carrying his load for years. His learned behavior has been learned for his entire life. And, yes, I am partially to blame for it. Think of it in terms of the cycle of violence or abuse to better understand. The example you gave was great, but didn't fit what I meant earlier - my bad. I didn't explain the feeling and it was that - a feeling.<p>My apologies for explaining that a bit further. Sometimes I type (think aloud) and not re-read - which I didn't in that case. All I was really trying to say was that my H has years of stuff (more than habits) that he's needing to face and doesn't want to. You're right - I cannot control that, nor do I want to.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>You can't make your husband go to IC (from what I read he needs) but you might be able to influence him to want IC. Think about it long and hard, I mean really really think about it. Not about how you can change him but how you can change you so it has an effect on him! Try things out and see what happens. If the results are good keep doing it if they are bad don't make the same mistake. <hr></blockquote><p>I have been trying to be the best influence/person I know. I have seen the things I did NOT like about me and have been working hard on them. Yes, it's tough, but it seems to get easier every day. My H has even said that to me. And, WOW, I'm quickly learning what does and doesn't work with him. Very few DOES and lots and lots of DOESN'TS. It is indeed a learning experience.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I will check in on you later... <hr></blockquote><p>Thanks LHM! You are a good person! My best to your wife - please tell her hello for me! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Llama

llama,
Looks like you have things thought out. I didn't mean anything bad just wanted to state what it appears you already know. Your H has his faults and you seem to know this. Have you thought about the reasons you did married him? I know it helped my wife get through my A. <p>I am under the impression everyone who comes to MB is looking to repair there marriage. Looking to make things better in their marriage. I do understand that some M do not work and there are many reason for people NOT to stay married (abusive behavior). I believe every person can change, and if they do, things can be repaired. Then again some things are not meant to be. I am also a firm believer that if your not happy with your life that there is no way your S can be happy with you. So I pray your husband finds his direction in the fog and starts to work on himself. It sounds like he is miserable inside. I know the feeling because I was there. <p>I think you should continue doing what your doing. Keep working on yourself and hopefully he will come around and along for the ride. That's really what plan a and b are all about, making yourself a better person...<p>Please let me know if I can help with anything.....

Thanks again LHM -<p>I do think about the things I loved about my H when I married him. Unfortunately, many of those things started to diminish. But, you are right - why we all come to MB. And that plan A & B are really about me. I didn't really begin to see that until just a few weeks ago. I'm hangin in as best I can. Keep in touch!<p>Llama

Hi Llama<p>I responded on the Divorcing thread! Hope you have a great night!

Sounds like your WH has withdrew a few too many love units. I think it is great that you are feeling encouraged about your future. I know it wasn't easy for you to get there.
Hang in there sweety.
Hugs and love,
Layli

Not much of an update. Haven't talked to WH since Monday. Appointment with therapist yesterday - she commented on how great I looked, sounded, etc. and even asked if I want to wait two weeks before coming back. I said I wasn't ready for that yet anyway. <p>Hooking up with some old pals that I haven't gone out with in years - it's been fun. Going out with highschool girlfriend tomorrow night, maybe dinner and dancing - or my favorite...karaoke!<p>Freelance work keeping me busy most of the weekend, but I'm planning on working on the backyard/landscaping, etc. I finally found a lawn guy to do that chore for me. I can't even get the lawn mower started, LOL!<p>Feeling good and believing in ME!<p>Weekend Hugs to Everyone!
Llama

Well - my H and I discussed divorce at length yesterday and today. He will be filing in the next few weeks. We are both okay with it. He doesn't want anything and wants everything to be amicable. It's very strange and I've been a bit emotional, but it seems overall to be a relief.<p>I thank everyone who is here who have always been there to support me and I wish everyone the best in their own endeavors. If it's ok for me to post here for a while, that would be great. I'll be moving over to the D/D board soon, so please keep in touch.<p>Llama Hhugs,
Llama