My wife and I have been hapilly married for the past ten years. We dated for 5 years before our mariage and she is the only woman that I have ever been with. We first had sex about a year after we started dating and my wife has always told me that I was the first person that she had had sex with. that she was a "virgin". Once during the 3rd year of our dating she had a fling with another guy and she told me about it, I accepted it and tryed to get over it which I basically have. However, Last week we got into a discussion about her past and she revealed to me that she had not been truthful with me and that I had not been her "first" and that she had been with two other men before we dated.<BR>I am having trouble not only dealing with the fact that I had been lyed to for all these years but also I can not get the thought of her with someone else out of my mind. It is tearing me up inside. Not to mention the fact that I see both of the guys pretty often and it just stirs up all of these feeling I am having... I love my wife very much but how do I get over this? Should I seek professional help?

Man, I am almost in the same situation that you are. I was also a virgin when I met my wife. I knew, though, that she had been with someone else prior to me. At the time I dealt with it and had gotten over it. Now 13 years later I found out that she had been with at least 5 different people prior to having sex with me. Talk about a mind f**k!<P>I too am having a difficult time getting the images out of my head. My only hope is that through the passing of time the images will fade and I will come to terms with my virginity.<P>Tell me, do you think that you would be better able to cope with this had you had a few partners prior to your wife? I know that I would. One of the things that pulls me through all of this is the fact that my wife chose me over the other guys. She had told me that she has never had sex like she has had with me. From the way she reacts, I think she is telling the truth.<P>Good luck.

Gentlemen!!!<BR>Please let the past stay with the past. Look at what your wife is now, not during the dating process. Sir, don't start anything that is not there, what about if she didn't tell you at all. <P>Let it go, vent your frustration to this board, counselor or someone neutral,don't even let her know its eating you because eventually it'll eat your healthy relationship out. Cause she would cut you off from future discussions. Let it go, enjoy the good person she is to you today. Forgive her past and move on, easier said than done, but give yourself that gift.<P>Life is short.

I agree with Lifeishort, we need to forgive and forget our wives' past. There is not a thing we can do to change the past. I know that forgiving is easier than forgetting, but hopefully the images will become distant memories making you think that it really did not even happen. We need to remember that our wives are with us and no one else.<P>Athens, enjoy the sex you are having with your wife. I know that I can't even imagine it being any better than it is with my wife. She definitely knows that it is the best. I am sure your wife thinks the same thing.<P>I really don't think you need counseling at this point. Coming here and posting is an excellant starting point. Continue to discuss your feelings with your wife. She does need to know how you feel and what you are thinking about when you won't look at or talk to her. Just remember how special she is to you. No other man has enjoyed your wife the way that you have. They may have been with your wife, but they will never know the love and share in the desires that you get to with your wife. I am sure that they are jealous of you.<P>In my own situation, my wife looks the best she has in her entire life. I know that no other man has gotten to enjoy her sexy petite body like I have. And I have been informed that no other man ever will.<P>Good luck Athens. Remember you have a fellow comrade out there that is in the same situation as you.

How about a womans point of view.<P>My current relationship (will be married in june) had almost the same thing. My fiencee and I both had other partners. The catch is that I had more then he did. He does not look upon that as a threat except to ask me once if he was good enough. I reassured him that he was because he is the one I am with and no one else.<P>But during our first few months of dating we both had flings that we regret having. Mine was with my ex who is quite forceful in the bedroom situations (i never see him for this reason) and his was with someone who did the same thing to him that mine did to me. We were put upagainst our hormones and they won. <P>Needless to say that once in a while I still have trouble thinking of it...BUT I have learned that praying to GOD and that putting the past behind me and carry on works BUT REMEMBER it takes TIME and energy and effort on both parties. She has to promise and do as she promises not to cheat. And you have to NOT bring up her past unless she needs to talk to you.<P>Think about it this way. She IS coming clean with you instead of hiding the truth from you!!!!! That is the most hardest part. She probally was being torn apart and that is where everyone goes wrong becuase they get angry and leave each other before they are able to talk about it.<P>Sit down an talk to her about how your feeling. Be calm and you will see that you will be able to work through this.<P>------------------<BR>Thanks all,<BR>Vixy

Athens, let us know how you are progressing.

Thanks for all the responses--believe it or not they have really helped.<BR>We are both getting along very well with each other--- I still have those Demons of her past to deal with and I'll be honest not a day goes by that I dont think about it. but I truly hope that time and good people like you on this message board willhelp ease the pain that I feel. As they say forgiving is easey but forgetting seems to take the longest time--I still need help from anyone who is in this same sitution and I believe that we all can help each other--thanks<BR>athens955

Athens, glad to see you post again! I always knew that there had to be someone else out there that going through the same thing that I am. There is no easy answer on how you should deal with your wife's revelation.<P>I too think about my wife's past everyday and I found out about it back in October of '00. Other people out there might think that we are wasting our time on dwelling about our wives' past, but our situations are unique. Both of us have only had sex with our wives. It is a lot harder to deal with this situation when you were a "virgin." Especially when you think of you wife sleeping with someone else. It burns me up inside. You may want to read my post under this topic and the one I entitled "Revenge, why is it such a bad idea?" You will be able to read my story. Shortly after I found out, all I could do is think about revenge (sleeping with someone else). I have came a long way since those posts, but I still ponder the idea every once in a while. My reasoning behind this would be that my wife and I would be on the same playing level once I slept with someone else. Pretty stupid reasoning, huh?<P>What we have to remember is that we cannot change the past. There is nothing they can do to change the past either. The present and the future, though, are under our control and I for one plan on making the most out of it.<P>Keep posting. Maybe someone else in our situation will come forth. I also need to thank you for coming forth. You can't imagine how much your post is helping me out.<P>jsg

Well, here is another one coming forth!<P>First, I just want to say how happy I am that I've found this place! I've been searching all over the Internet trying to find some advice on how to deal with this issue. I've found different articles on this topic, but nothing is so helpful as just reading posts from other guys who are dealing with the same problems. I think that simply writing out your story and posting it for others who are in the same situation is probably as therapeutic as anything!<P>So, what's my story? Well, I'm engaged to a wonderful woman and set to be married later this year. Only problem is that now I'm having difficulty coming to terms with her past. Perhaps the strangest thing about this is the fact that it didn't bother me as much earlier in our relationship. Relatively early on we talked a little about our pasts, including our past relationships. This of course included disclosing how many sexual partners we'd had. I discovered that she had been with five guys and she learned that I was still a virgin. We also discussed how different our lives were before we met. I was more the type to have a handful of really good friends who would just get together and enjoy ourselves -- no need for lots of bars, drinking, and such. She, on the other hand, frequented the bar scene regularly, drank quite frequently, and of course smoked at all the cool parties (including marijuana). This, however, doesn't really bother me that much. It just illustrates how different we were prior to meeting. She also "fooled around" with upwards of 12-13 guys, whereas the number for me was closer to 2-3.<P>Anyway, at the time when we were discussing these things, I was at a point in my life where I was extremely busy and almost all of my free time was accounted for and organized. Maybe I just didn't have as much time to think about it then. For the past few months however, I've slowed down and found myself becomming more and more bothered by the different things she has done in the past. I've also noticed that certain things tend to trigger me to think about it, such as sexual scenes in movies, etc. (Images of my fiance and the five other guys she was with come to my mind and can be very disturbing at times.)<P>Another thing I've had trouble with is how casual some of these sexual relationships appear to have been. One of the guys was just a "friend of a friend" and lasted for a couple of months one summer. Another lasted about a month, but still involved sex! The others were a little more serious, but still somewhat bothersome to me.<P>Well, I know that there are a wide variety of factors involved in why her past bothers me so much. Jealousy and insecurity are certainly near the top of the list. But also important in my case is my religious upbringing. I was raised to view sex as a very sacred bond to be shared by two people after making the commitment of marriage, and even that it was sinful to have sex prior to marriage. For a while, I was giving serious consideration to how important the act of sex could possibly be to her, given that she appeared to take it so lightly in the past. <P>Well, although I'm getting better with this (again, probably getting more busy), I still find myself wondering how much trust I really have in her. I sometimes wonder how easy it might be for her to have an affair later in our marriage, given the fact it was so easy for her to have sexual relationships in the past. She has a very engaging personality and I'm sure it even appears flirty to some. I find myself worrying sometimes that this, combined with her past behavior, might create a situation where an affair could occur easier than it might for someone else.<P>Of course, like everyone, I've discussed my feelings with her. She gets extremely tearful and saddened, and tells me how important it is to her that I trust her. She occasionally gets defensive about me bringing up her past, and with good reason. But sometimes I feel so bothered by it that talking about it with her is the only way to get "past" it. I think I can tell from her tears and very emotional reactions that she would never cheat on me, but for some reason I still find myself thinking about it. <P>Of course absolutely none of this is very comforting to me, given our upcoming marriage. I find myself going through a variety of emotions, including anger at her for doing those things and fear of what she might do in the future. She is very good at detecting when I'm upset, and I'm afraid this whole thing is starting to effect our relationship.<P>ANYWAY, this post is a little long. I look forward to reading any responses and hope this might help. I hope this board stays active, as we can all benefit from sharing our experiences!<P>

Welcome aboard, looknup!<P>I am also the number 6 guy. I also find that movies portraying casual sex set me off. Immediately I start to think how my wife was just as casual with some of the guys that she had sex with. It eats me up inside and I have been married to her for almost 11 years. I, not unlike you, was not bothered with her sexual past when we got married. The problem became when I found out that she had been with three other guys while we were dating. I only found this out this past October. Then the images and feelings came back stronger than ever.<P>You are very lucky that you have the opportunity to deal with this prior to marriage. I have fantasized about being back in the position that you are with the knowledge that I have now. Don't take this as advice on what you should do, but I know that given the opportunity to go back I would have sex with someone else. Sounds selfish doesn't it? The reason for doing so is that I would not be committing adultery such as I would now. Sure I would still be committing fornication, but I think I could live with that. <P>I am assuming that you and your fiance are having sex, correct? How long had you two been dating prior to having sex? My wife and I dated for almost 6 months prior to having sex and during that time was when she cheated on me. She did not know at that time that I was a virgin and assumed that my non-advances meant that I was cheating on her while away in another town attending college so she decided to cheat herself. She absolutely hates herself for what she had done. She has gone into severe depression over this and has contemplated divorce. I love my wife very much and can see the remorse in her words and actions. I do forgive her. The problem, which you are currently dealing with, is forgetting the past.<P>I have a long way to go in that regard, but hopefully someday I will not think about it on a daily basis. Thanks for posting and good luck.<p>[This message has been edited by jsg (edited March 06, 2001).]

Any updates or more questions?

Well I just want to say that I know what some of these guys are feeling. I found out from my wife a couple or few months after we started going out that she was with other guys, I don't really like that but there is nothing that I can do about it, just to deal with it, and this past summer that before her and I met, when she was out partying and whatever that she had a threesome with two guys. Well knowing this stuff, honestly to say I hate it with a passion, but i've sorta come to realize that there is nothing that I can do about. I have a sexual past, but I don't think as intense as hers, but I honestly regret my past... I wish and wished that I could change it, as well as hers, but we can't so... the bottom line is to just deal with it the best way I can.<BR>

I am under a similiar situation myself except the fact that I am a woman. I hav been married for 6 years now. After one week of my marriage my husband confided that he had an affair prior to our marriage. At that time I was getting to terms with the sudden death of my sister and did not react much to his affair. Now after 6 years it has become a major issue to me and my sex life is getting affected. I keep on thinking what exactly might have happened. I am tormented . At times I wonder whether they had oral sex or even whether he kissed her all over and every minute detail and get very upset. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by looknup:<BR><B>Well, here is another one coming forth!<P>First, I just want to say how happy I am that I've found this place! I've been searching all over the Internet trying to find some advice on how to deal with this issue. I've found different articles on this topic, but nothing is so helpful as just reading posts from other guys who are dealing with the same problems. I think that simply writing out your story and posting it for others who are in the same situation is probably as therapeutic as anything!<P>So, what's my story? Well, I'm engaged to a wonderful woman and set to be married later this year. Only problem is that now I'm having difficulty coming to terms with her past. Perhaps the strangest thing about this is the fact that it didn't bother me as much earlier in our relationship. Relatively early on we talked a little about our pasts, including our past relationships. This of course included disclosing how many sexual partners we'd had. I discovered that she had been with five guys and she learned that I was still a virgin. We also discussed how different our lives were before we met. I was more the type to have a handful of really good friends who would just get together and enjoy ourselves -- no need for lots of bars, drinking, and such. She, on the other hand, frequented the bar scene regularly, drank quite frequently, and of course smoked at all the cool parties (including marijuana). This, however, doesn't really bother me that much. It just illustrates how different we were prior to meeting. She also "fooled around" with upwards of 12-13 guys, whereas the number for me was closer to 2-3.<P>Anyway, at the time when we were discussing these things, I was at a point in my life where I was extremely busy and almost all of my free time was accounted for and organized. Maybe I just didn't have as much time to think about it then. For the past few months however, I've slowed down and found myself becomming more and more bothered by the different things she has done in the past. I've also noticed that certain things tend to trigger me to think about it, such as sexual scenes in movies, etc. (Images of my fiance and the five other guys she was with come to my mind and can be very disturbing at times.)<P>Another thing I've had trouble with is how casual some of these sexual relationships appear to have been. One of the guys was just a "friend of a friend" and lasted for a couple of months one summer. Another lasted about a month, but still involved sex! The others were a little more serious, but still somewhat bothersome to me.<P>Well, I know that there are a wide variety of factors involved in why her past bothers me so much. Jealousy and insecurity are certainly near the top of the list. But also important in my case is my religious upbringing. I was raised to view sex as a very sacred bond to be shared by two people after making the commitment of marriage, and even that it was sinful to have sex prior to marriage. For a while, I was giving serious consideration to how important the act of sex could possibly be to her, given that she appeared to take it so lightly in the past. <P>Well, although I'm getting better with this (again, probably getting more busy), I still find myself wondering how much trust I really have in her. I sometimes wonder how easy it might be for her to have an affair later in our marriage, given the fact it was so easy for her to have sexual relationships in the past. She has a very engaging personality and I'm sure it even appears flirty to some. I find myself worrying sometimes that this, combined with her past behavior, might create a situation where an affair could occur easier than it might for someone else.<P>Of course, like everyone, I've discussed my feelings with her. She gets extremely tearful and saddened, and tells me how important it is to her that I trust her. She occasionally gets defensive about me bringing up her past, and with good reason. But sometimes I feel so bothered by it that talking about it with her is the only way to get "past" it. I think I can tell from her tears and very emotional reactions that she would never cheat on me, but for some reason I still find myself thinking about it. <P>Of course absolutely none of this is very comforting to me, given our upcoming marriage. I find myself going through a variety of emotions, including anger at her for doing those things and fear of what she might do in the future. She is very good at detecting when I'm upset, and I'm afraid this whole thing is starting to effect our relationship.<P>ANYWAY, this post is a little long. I look forward to reading any responses and hope this might help. I hope this board stays active, as we can all benefit from sharing our experiences!<P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

To Mermaid:<P>6 years later and you still have not gotten over his affair prior to your marriage. That revelation doesn't give me much hope that I will be getting over my wife's prior cheating anytime soon. I just found out about in Oct. '00 after 10 years of marriage. Needless to say, I was devastated when I found out. I was hoping, though, that through the passage of time the pain would go away. It has for the most part, but I still ponder the same things that you described everyday.<P>Please tell us more of your story i.e. why he did it, with whom, and why he told you.

Wow, it's a relief to find this place. The stuff that people wrote who were virgins when they got married, but married people who were not virgins could have been written by me. <P>My husband has a past. I don't even need to say all the feelings I have about it, like it bothering me a lot more now that we've been married for a few months than it did when we were first dating, and the images I have in my head of it.....how sometimes I worry I won't be enough for him....<P>He told me he was not a virgin, that he's done things he's ashamed of, but he told me I "don't want to know" about his sexual past. I feel like I really want to know, because I think it's affecting us now, and I know it affects him in the bedroom. I also feel like there's a big chunk of him that I don't know about. Here's my big question, and please, please, please, I need an answer. Should I ask him about his sexual past? Will the details haunt me worse than my imagination can?<P>I hate thinking of myself as number 75, plus or minus 5. No, I didn't ask him, that's just what my imagination tells me. How special can I be if he doesn't even remember the first time I gave him oral sex? Okay, I will not vent yet. I want some advice.

I don't think you want to know!!! And I don't think it matters!!!! In this case I would say "ignorance is bliss". If you have images that haunt you knowing the little you know - You will never be able to handle the big stuff. I had hundreds of partners before meeting my SO and he had very few - some of the stuff he knows he lets haunt me and in my book it is unfair to do this. He asked - I told. For that my honesty was punished. As a result there are several things I will never tell him - his reaction killed my ability to be perfectly honest (it's not safe). The catch is - none of this matters now. I love him deeply. I do not picture these people when we are doing it. Here's where all those partners got me, It made me realize that sex does not really matter. You can have sex with anyone. But the heart and the soul are what matters. His heart and his soul are the things I love and do not want to loose. His heart and his soul are the things that makes sex with him what it is. I know THAT is the rare thing out there. SEX IS NOTHING, PORN IS NOTHING, SEXY BODIES ARE NOTHING. LOVE IS EVERYTHING!!!!!!<P>Leave it be and let it go - he wants your heart and soul.

Thanks. You have a good point that if even the small part I do know haunts me, even more information might be too much to handle. <P>But it's really sad to hear people say sex is nothing. That only seems to come from people who've treated it that way. Sex is something really great for me, and I want my husband to feel the same way. (Although he says he loves it with me).<P>One other thing - I have never and would never hold anything against my husband, no matter what he tells me. The only reason I could wait so long to have sex was because I relied on God to help me, if I had been alone like he was, I would not have made it either. He is actually far more judgemental about people than I am now, too, because he is only beginning to realize that you don't do anything good on your own. (At least this is how I believe).<P>Has anyone out there asked and really regreted it? Or asked and felt relieved? Personally, I'd feel relieved if he "only" did it with 50 others. <P>One thing that helps me is to think that I have him for the rest of my life, and so every time we have sex, it cancels out a time he had sex with someone else, because your brain can only hold so many memories. I know it's silly, but once I thougt of it that way, it doesn't seem to hurt as much.<P>Oh, and just one more thing, I promise. I've been thinking about what he might tell me, and I don't know if I would feel worse if he had sex with 10 or 100. With ten, they maybe meant more to him, with 100, they could have meant less. But then again, it's 100 people. <P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by prettygarnet:<BR><B>it's really sad to hear people say sex is nothing. <BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Sorry , I may have not been clear. What I ment by that was Sex in itself is of no significant meaning and therefor of no value (no meaning, no value = nothing). But Sex with someone who's heart and soul is yours - there is absolutely no way to describe that with any justice. All I can say is ......... OH JOY !!!!!!!!!!!! And that is what I have with my man now that I have not had with anyone ever in the past - that is why he is the absolute best I have ever been with.<p>[This message has been edited by heikefrank69 (edited June 21, 2001).]

To prettygarnet:<P>Believe me you are "damned if you do and damned if you don't" with this particular topic. I, like yourself, had horrible images of my wife having sex with numerous partners. I had to know the numbers because your mind always make think that there are more than there really were. I asked and she told. She had sex with 5 people prior to me. Unfortunately 2 of them were while we were dating. I have not been real interested in the details of the encounters, but bits and pieces have come to light since I initially asked her for the number. The details do hurt, but they are no where near the images that I had in my head. There is some relief in knowing that I am by far the best lover she has ever had (her words not mine). According to her, the love that we share makes our love making more intense and pleasurable. I have to agree, but I don't know for sure because she is the only person I have had sex with.<P>This is definitely a personal decision that you alone have to make. I can tell you, though, that knowing is a lot better than not knowing. Your mind always thinks the worse. Knowing the details will haunt you that I can garauntee, but you will be better able to handle your feelings toward your spouse. You need to know what they were going through during those times to understand why they did what they did.<P>Good luck.

My piece- <BR>My first wife lied to me about her sexual past, and as is usually the case, the truth eventually comes out. Well, the truth came out about 10 years later, and yes, it hurt alot more then than it would have initially. Part of the hurt is the fact that she kept in the lie for so long. My second wife had more of a history, and we disclosed everything to each other. Maybe because I was at a better place with myself, and I loved and accepted wife # 2 absolutely unconditionally, it did not bother me at all. Remember, she (or he) is a product of their past- they are who they are because of their history. Concerns prior to marriage may indicate less than 100% unconditional love, and may require further investigation. I also agree with the MB concept of "Radical Honesty" (link follows) <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3900_honesty.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3900_honesty.html</A> <BR>If there is not total honesty, trouble will eventually brew!<BR>Hope this helps.<BR>

heikefrank69: I'm glad you clarified that for me, it actually makes me feel a lot better. <P><BR>What jsg and jw3 said makes a lot of sense. I think I will have to ask him, and I just hope it is better, not worse than I imagine. At least it will be the truth, anyway, and I DO value truth more than anything. At least my husband never lied to me or tried to hide it, he just doesn't want to hurt me. Or maybe it's painful for him to admit it to me, I don't know. We'll probably end up talking about it all.<P>"You need to know what they were going through during those times to understand why they did what they did." - That is so true for me...<P>I'll keep you updated...

Well, I felt a lot better after I decided I'd have to ask him, and have him basically tell me everything. We talked a little bit, but I didn't want to push him. I did let him know that I wanted to know everything, and I didn't want us to keep secrets from each other, (I think if he tells me not to ask about something, it's keeping secrets...). He just said he is really embarrassed about it. I told him that was ok, that I wouldn't think any less of him since I love the man he is today, and that he could think about it and tell me when he's ready. I don't want him to think he is worth any less to me because I know more about him. Now that I know he will tell me everything, I feel better. Yes, I still feel a little bit jealous and a little bit cheated right now, but just knowing that there is not an area I have to side-step around all the time makes me feel a lot better. <P>Especially since it is an area that has caused me a lot of pain. I will post when I hear everything. Any other's experiences are still helpful.

<small>[ July 18, 2004, 10:07 PM: Message edited by: Roscoe ]</small>

Ok, I said before I decided to ask, and I told him I want to know everything. He was embarrassed, so I told him I'd wait until he was ready. He says he's ready, but he wants me to ask the questions. It's really hard for me to just "grill him" to begin with, but on top of that, I really can only think of one question (how many?). I really don't want to have to keep bringing this up when I think of another question. What were the questions you asked? I want to know about everything, but I just have a hard time thinking of how to say things sometimes. I want to be ready.

<small>[ July 18, 2004, 10:08 PM: Message edited by: Roscoe ]</small>

Roscoe, thanks for humoring me. I am as obsessed as you ever were. I'm glad I've seen somebody else's "list", so I can sort of put mine into words.<P>I have pretty much gotten over the "why" aspect of it, since he has told me a squillion times that he thinks he was just stupid and selfish, and he thought it made him look cool. And he was really lonely. I can also understand why women put out, as I am good looking but did not have many dates in high school after all the guys found out I was not letting them in my pants. The difference is that I cared the most about what God thought about me, and what condition my soul was in, and my husband thought about looking cool, "fitting in" and finding a damp dark spot to put it. He is not like that now, and I actually find it hard to reconcile the two images. When I do, that's when I would worry about him cheating. After I talked to him about that, he was able to somehow say the right things and now I can honestly say that I trust him completely. I'd still be spitting nails if some pretty girl was flirting with him, but I know he'd bring me up in the conversation within three sentences anyway. That's the "why" for me.<P>Back to the "history" obession. I actually considered having him write it down, because I know I'll have to hear/look at it over and over. I even read the same book 20 times. At least I have a good memory for conversations. That's actually bad, because he forgets things we've talked about, and they're etched in my head. Then I think "maybe it/me wasn't important to him", when really he's just a poor clueless guy. <P>I think this will take a long time because of both of us. I will not put him "in the hot seat", and he is reluctant to get to the hard stuff because he is still afraid I will hate him for it. I know that I won't, so I told him that and that I'll wait until he's ready to tell me. He actually told me a little bit after that, but just warm up stuff. Since he's still worried I'll hate him, I'm just going to let him work up to it.<P>I wish it WAS in hard-bound edition. <P>

Well, I asked. He told. I am so glad that I asked. It still hurts me, but really no where near what it did. My imagination was a LOT worse than the truth. <P>The thing that I obsess about the most was his "first time". I had him tell me what happened, and it wasn't a good time for him. I feel bad that I am happy about that. But not too bad. It was also in his parent's house, and I just don't like going into his old room any more. Can you blame me? <P>It's weird, because when I heard one thing a while ago, I cried for three days. Not kidding, it was three days. My eyes ached from crying. I've never cried that much in my life. And it was really not that big a thing. But then when we talked about it openly, and he told me everything, I didn't cry at all. It really doesn't bother me any more. Well, it does a tiny bit sometimes, but I know that is just me worrying too much. <P>One thing that helps me is that I know that we were each gifts from God to each other. We fit too perfectly for it not to have been designed that way. And I am not going to tell God that the gift he gave me isn't ok because he had a flawed past. I am happy being a gift to him. You don't give gifts to get something in return.

Thanks for the update. I felt confident that the truth would look better than your fears. Now you can face it with your head held high. Looks like you’re off to a good start.<P>Reading and posting here has made me feel a lot better lately. Seems like it works for you too.<BR>

You men have a completely different view of this than my husband. He never wanted to get together with a virgin, rather prefered the "experienced" type. Why does this bother you so much? Does it somehow threaten your masculinity or something? Why does it matter to you what your wife did before you came along. I think it's an entirely different matter if they haven't been faithful to you while they've been with you, but why does it bother you that your wife had a past? My dh didn't have one, but I've been with guys who have and it didn't bother me.<P>one mommy

To anyone who has had more than one sexual partner, I'm sorry, but you have no idea what you missed out on. My husband once worried, when we met, that I would wonder what *I* missed out on. I don't. I think HE missed out on the peace and rest that I have with my own past.<P>I missed out on heartache and STD's. He missed out on peace with himself and a healthy soul. He scarred himself, and it's evident to me where. He has no iea what he's done to himself. I love him anyway, and God will heal everything in His own time. But I am glad I had people to talk with me about sex before I did anything that would destroy my own soul that way.<P>I posted this in the "Other Topics" forum, but I think it merits a reposting here. <P>See...a big problem here is that unless you're actually in THAT situation, you have no concept of how many hurts there are that go along with it.<P>When my husband is making love to me and whispers "we're one", I think "no, you already gave parts of yourself away, how can WE be one?" Crazy, but that's what I think. How can sex mean something with me but not with others?<P>Or how about when he brings out a scarf and wants to tie me up, and I think "who else has he tied up with that scarf?"<P>Or we go to dinner at friends' of his parents, and his old girlfriend happens to be their daughter, and they had sex...and I'm sitting right across the table from her trying to suppress feelings of wanting to tear her eyeballs out.<P>Or when he gets a letter for his high school reunion, and I think "I can't go, because the whole time I'll be wondering who sucked his [censored]..."<P>Or that I know that statistically, you're more likely to cheat if you've had more partners.<P>Or when I look at his penis and think "where else has that been..."<P>Or when I know that he lost his virginity at his parents house, and I don't want to go in the room it happened in, even though he didn't even like his first time...<P>There are daily reminders.<P>He's also told me that when we're having sex, pictures of other times with other women will flash across his brain. Can you keep stuff from flashing across your brain? No, he can't do it any more than I can keep from thinking the above thought when he says something like that to me. I can choose not to dwell on it, but I can't keep the thought from flashing. I could go on and on about that pain it's caused me. It's caused me that pain because I understand the symbolism and real nature of sex as God designed it. <BR>My husband and I DID have sex before we were married. Marriage is a piece of paper to me, I didn't care about it and I knew he was the only one for me ever, in my entire life. But he says sex is different with me now that we're married. Why, he won't tell me. I have no idea what he means.<P>Does my husband tell me I'm the best and prettiest, etc? Yes. I don't worry about that, I'm a hottie and I'm a quick study. <P>I bitterly wish that I could forget all about it. Talking about it helps, coming here helps. But some things are just easier said than done. I think it's like a grieving period, where someone dies and it just takes time to get over it. You have to help yourself get over it, but it's no good ignoring it. It won't just "go away", you have to deal with it. <P>Again, there are daily reminders. You have to make a conscious effort to get past it, but the progress is slow at times.<P>I pray to God he never knows how much pain he caused me by his poor moral choices. He doesn't know how much he's twisted his soul, and I'm just glad God can fix anything.<P>prettygarnet

To prettygarnet:<P>It appears from your latest post that you have came along way since your first. It is so good to her from a woman that has encountered what I have been going through. There definitely are daily reminders that get you thinking about the past. Some of mine include driving by houses that I know she had sex in and anything from the 80s (songs, shows, etc.). I wish I could repress the thoughts and images, but I just can't. They come without any warning and hit me like a ton of bricks. I feel sorry for my wife because she is now being forced to deal with things that happened over 13 years ago and her husband won't simply let it go. I have improved tremendously, though, since I first found out about her past sexual history. With the passage of time, I think it will get even better.<P>You are so right with your quote that people who have not experienced what we have will never know the kind of hurt we go through. The thought of your spouse engaging in sexual intercourse with someone else sucks when it is based in reality and not fantasy. Yes, I do fantasize about my wife with other men, but that is simply a fantasy. The reality of it is that she has been with other men and that hurts more than any "non-virgin" will ever know.<P>Thanks

jsg,<P>I am not even going into those "other" threads right now. I don't want to get worked up over the same old thing that I've heard a thousand times. I'm afraid I would take it out on my husband, and he doesn't deserve that. He has told me he dissapproves of their position. Strongly. He is not that kind of person and I shouldn't be tempted to lump them together.<P>I already spent a year with advice like that, and it just made things worse. I've already been down that road. It's like a doctor telling you he's got the cure, but you've tried his medicine for a year and it hasn't worked. Then you find something that works, and he keeps trying to cram the old "cure" down your throat. *L*<P>Anyway, you guys have helped me too much for me to chuck this whole place. I can't believe I actually found *anyone* else who can relate to my position, let alone give advice on what they've done to work through it. <P>I'm still talking it all over with my husband, and new stuff comes up occassionally, but it's easy to handle things now. (I really think I have the best marriage in the world, anyway. We are best friends, soulmates, everything I ever wanted.) The best part was not getting advice from here, but rather discussing thoughts and hearing viewpoints. This has made me able to talk to my husband about it, which is who I should be talking to about it anyway. <P>PG

PG, I think you hit the nail on the head with this quote: <P>"The best part was not getting advice from here, but rather discussing thoughts and hearing viewpoints."<P>I think that is exactly why people like you and me have posted here. We desperately wanted to find someone in the same position as us. We both know that the only "advice" that will work in our situations is to let go of the past and move on, but that is not the reason why we came here. That is where posters such as Desertrose and JL have missed the point. The want to give sound advice but unfortunately it comes across as meaningless because it is not that easy to "get over it." I can understand where they are coming from because they have had sexual partners prior to their marriage and I am sure they would hate to think that their spouse has some sort of hang up with their past. It is easy for people who have had past partners to think we are overreacting to our situations. I am sure my wife wishes I would just "get over it" and for the most part I have, but advice to "get over it" does not sit as well with me as hearing from other people in my situation. That is where the real help came from.<P>I am very thankful that you, John, Roscoe, Athens, Howard, Looknup and all the others in our situation have found this site. You guys saved me from ruining the best thing that has ever happened to me, my marriage. JSG

Is this ‘internal exile’ <IMG SRC="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/wink.gif">?


I found a thread on this board from last September by a guy named Kendoll where he gets pilloried for expressing himself on this subject. Just the ‘tough love’ he needed, I imagine. You might want to check it out.
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum12/HTML/000125.html

Roscoe

<small>[ July 18, 2004, 10:14 PM: Message edited by: Roscoe ]</small>

*L* I guess this is the virtual gulag. Glad to see you here, too, Roscoe. <P>Poor kendoll, nobody was there to help him out. That's pretty much what happened to me at another site, but mine was a little worse even. I did notice that somebody pointed out that saying "get over it" trivializes the other person's problem and does not help. <P>One quote about thoughts, to people who say "don't think about it"--<BR>"I can't keep birds from flying over my head, but I can keep them from nesting in my hair." ---Martin Luther<P>I found that quote somewhere, and it is true in our cases. We can, and I think we mostly do keep the birds from nesting. But we can't stop them from flying overhead any more than our spouse can keep thoughts of their previous partners from flashing through their brain. <P>I am sure it is difficult for people who've had previous partners to think that someone doesn't approve of their past, or is *gasp* hurt by their past. <P>I found another analogy from the story about the Velveteen Rabbit, and it helped me to think of things in a new way. I will post it as soon as I can. I don't have it with me right now. <P>PG

Well it looks like I got myself into some trouble on the "Other Topics" forum. The moderator had to come step in between Mike C2 and me.<P>Apparently him and I are going to have to "agree to disagree", because neither of us are backing down from our opinions. <P>Anyways, I will continue to post in this forum if it is alright with the rest of you. Please let me know.

I understand your pain about being lied to for some many years however be thankful it didn't occur after you had married....then I would be concerned. I have also had only one partner my whole life...my husband. He had 2 partners previous to our relationship but it didn't bother me. Maybe it is a man/woman issue but I say forget it. She is with you and that is what counts! Learn to "let it go" and you will feel much better. Good luck! DFB

Of course *I* want you to stay, jsg. There is no question. Personally, I think you were more civil than a lot of others. I just went and looked at the whole thing. I don't think the moderator thing was directed at you, or at least only at you. I poured out the vitreol, too.<P>I will never be surprised when my moral beliefs are bashed. I will also never be surprised when people offer their advice, even though they are uninformed and have no personal experience with the issue. Sometimes the advice is harmless, but a lot of times it's not.

I learned quite a bit from this. For instance, there really are moderators here . Also, it is much easier to fall over the edge than I thought. We all have our ‘hot buttons’. I’m surprised these dust-ups don’t happen more often. The true test of character is the grace we show after such an experience. All the people involved are very kind people who got angry. I'm not sure about the guy who appeared at the end though. I’ll avoid responding to him in the future.<P><BR>Keep posting jsg. It may feel embarassing to get scolded by the authority figure. Keep smiling and that will soon pass.

Here's a story that struck me when I read it recently. We've probably all heard the velveteen rabbit story, but never really thought about it except in vague terms. Here's the excerpt: <P>'What is REAL?' asked the Rabbit one day when he and his close friend the Skin Horse were lying side by side near the nursery fender. 'Does it mean having things that buzz inside you and a stick-out handle?' <P>'Real isn't how you are made.' said the Skin Horse. 'It's a thing that happens to you. When a child loves you for a long, long time, not just to play with, but REALLY loves you, then you become Real....'<P>'Does it happen all at once, like being wound up...or bit by bit?'<P>'It doesn't happen all at once,' said the Skin Horse. 'You become. It takes a long time...Generally, by the time you are Real, most of your hair has been loved off, and your eyes drop out and you get loose in the joints and very shabby. But these things don't matter at all, because once you are Real you can't be ugly, except to people who don't understand.'<P>For some reason, the line "When a child loves you for a long, long time, not just to play with, but REALLY loves you, then you become Real..." really hits me. I could substitute 'man' instead of child... It's the "not just to play with" part that I find most interesting. I know that my husband used those other women to play with, even though he was in short relationships with most of them. But now that he's with me, we have the kind of love that makes us both 'Real'. I guess that is what makes the difference.<P>And it makes me really glad that I never had sex with any other man, because I would know now that I had just been somebody they "played with", and I would have a really hard time with that. I have always treated friendship as something really serious and really special, and I couldn't bear to be someone's thrown out toy. I guess, from listening to other people here and a lot of college friends, that that's what you feel like when a lover leaves you...like a thrown out toy that wasn't 'fun' any more. (I never really had a break up that was bad, even though I had some close relationships.) I'm glad I saved myself that pain. I know my husband would never toss me away, just like I wouldn't do it to him. <P>My husband was in short relationships or just had sex with women once, I don't know how I would feel if he'd gone out with the same woman for a long time. But really, I can imagine that I'd feel the same, since I was still the one that was not just to "play with". <P>Prettygarnet<P>

Glad to hear of others in this situation as I have felt very much alone. I have been married for 20 years and have seven wonderful children. My husband and I both had two relationships before we were married, only mine were longer. I have never done anything in our marriage to make him worry about past lovers. I have had no contact with them, I don't flirt. I have truly changed my life and have devoted my all to husband and family. We both knew of each other's pasts before we got married (only he claims he wished he would have drilled me more on details). He says he wishes he would have done more with one of his lovers and has brought that idea up from time to time. Throughout our marriage he has done small unfaithful things as well as keep in touch with his first lover (you know, they're just good friends...) Well, after 20 years, he finally made contact with her through a series of mush on a private e-mail account and ended up having a one night, do-all-you-can-do time with her on a "business trip". He tells me about it after 7 months. He isn't very remorseful, but instead tells me that it still doesn't compare with the relationships I had. I've tried to get him to read the Surviving an Affair book as I agree with the concepts taught, but he seems to be only concerned with how I hurt him. He doesn't care that he's been abusive with angry outbursts for the last 20 years and treated me like crap. He says he wanted me to be more compassionate when we were first married, but I honestly didn't know what he was looking for emotionally. He brought up my past every few days the first 10 years, then monthly the next five, then every few months the remaining five. I sincerely apologized and have tried loving him, but the bottom line is you can't change the past. When I told him there was nothing I could do to change the past, it just sent him through the ceiling. So after 20 years of a poopy marriage (and he feels it hasn't been that bad, because mediocre is okay with him), being publically humiliated, verbally abused, close to physical abuse, then this affair, I am beginning to ask myself am I just a glutton for punishment? I was 14 and 17 when I was fornicating, is there no forgiveness ever? I am willing to forgive his affair if we can just move on from this point. What can I do to help him? My life seems to be in shambles and I am miserable, friends are wondering what's up because I'm not the happy, bubbly I used to be. Thanks for listening, I've needed someone to talk to.

He sounds like a very abusive man. I don’t think this is an issue of your sexual history. He has one too. He just needs something to beat you up with, so he grabbed this. <P>There is a poster here named Leighann who has an abusive husband she has written about. You might want to search on her user name in the emotional needs and general questions II boards. Obviously there is no easy answer here, especially since some of your children must be quite young. You don’t owe your life to an abuser. He has his problems. They have nothing to do with you. He needs help. You have given 20 years to being his scapegoat, to absorbing his need to abuse. No wonder he thinks the marriage is OK. He gets to abuse and cheat with no payback.<P>I’d like to think that somehow there is a way to get through to him that he needs to change. I can only suggest that you look at the emotional needs tools here on this site and consider trying to draw him in to it. He ought to make an agreement with you about what your respective roles are and how he is going to fill his. If he can’t do that, then he may be a fine father, but he is not a husband as I see it. <P>I imagine he may habitually get angry when you suggest that he has faults to address. Sometimes the only thing you can do to wake someone up is leave. You can let him know that you would come back if he could commit to meeting your needs. Obviously, this is an easy thing for me to suggest and a hard thing for you to do. You might have to just wait it out for your kids to grow-up, and then start a new life. If he is intimidating you physically, then I am especially nervous for you. I have heard that such things get progressively worse unless they are nipped in the bud. <P>Please consider posting about your situation on the emotional needs board, since I think your problem is about abuse and not about pre-marital sex. You will get many more responses there from some very fine people.<P>Roscoe<BR>

Although I DID have other partners before my H, I can really understand - all too well - where you guys are coming from. I have been posting and searching here for a while for a number of different reasons, but this topic really hits close to home for me now. I got married in May 1996 and found out in JUNE, that my H had fathered a child with another woman while he was in college. Why it took her 3 years to confront him with this, I'll never know. Just when I was finally able to deal with THAT, my H gets a registered letter yesterday from the state where the first child was born. Thinking that the letter concerned this child, I opened it - ONLY TO FIND THAT ANOTHER WOMAN BELIEVES THAT HER 9 YEAR OLD DAUGHTER WAS FATHERED BY MY H, as well!!!!! This situation has made everything that my mom tried to tell me about premarital sex come to life. I can hardly look at my H without thinking about these other women. Not only did they share my H sexually , but they conceived children with him. These women and the children are now a permanent fixture in our lives FOREVER. I feel like there has been nothing sacred and reserved for us. I know this: I will talk to my children until I am blue in the face. Abstinence!!!!!!!!!!!! Looking back, the sex that we had was NOT worth all of this pain. I wish all of you the best and hope that things will get better for you very soon!<P>PEACE to all!

You don’t deserve this! To find out about it after you married? How terribly difficult! I wish you the courage to make something good of a bad situation. Plenty of courageous people marry into complex situations and become wonderful stepparents. But you had the right to chose taken from you. Still, you have a lot of company.<P>I think there is little social support for young people trying to be responsible today. Instead, such kids are maligned by their peers as repressed, obedient, etc.<BR>If you want to be responsible, best do it quietly. If you speak up for personal responsibility, you’ll be accused of self-righteousness, unrealistic expectations, passing judgements etc.<P>Unwanted pregnancy, most often resulting in abortions, is an epidemic as a result. IMO<P>I pity the children, and I know a few very well, who grow up never knowing their fathers. They must have some feeling of unworthiness. Their fathers are alive, but uninterested. Easy sex, apparently, was the highest value in their lives. What a lesson to grow up with. I think it would be particularly painful to a child if her father ‘moves on’ and is a good father to his later children, but not to her. <P>I hope you will help your husband to make all his children feel loved.<P>Roscoe<BR>

sickofthis, that is my nightmare. My absolute worst nightmare. <P>Of course, I've had my own over the past few days anyway. I thought my husband finally told me the truth about his past after I asked him. I made sure he knew that I needed him to tell me everything now, because it's too hard to find stuff out later. He said he had been truthful and told me everything, several times. <P>Then he decided he really had to come clean, and told me some more. And it has to do with getting arrested. And lying to me several times. Including about him being arrested. They were things that I would have forgiven him for, but now he has kept them from me until after we were married. I still forgive him. He also told me before, twice, that he never cheated on a girlfriend. This was a lie, too. I asked him when we first started dating, then right before we were married, and he told me he never cheated on a girlfriend. He admitted he did once, at the end of a relationship. He didn't have sex with the other girl at the time, but he still started seeing someone else. I would never have gotten involved with him if I'd known this. Once a guy cheats, he will do it again. I told him if I'd known I wouldn't have married him, too. He also told me he thinks his father has cheated on his mother, and he lied about that before, too. Who did I marry? I feel totally blindsided.<P>He also made me believe that he didn't have much sexual experimentation until he was 18. This was a lie, too, he doesn't even remember his first blow job. He has no idea how many women he's had oral sex with. It would not have felt this bad if he'd told me this from the beginning, instead of lying to me. <P>I can't think of my wedding day or anything associated with it without thinking about how stupid I was and how I trusted him so completely, and he was lying to me. Yes, he lied to because he "loved me so much he couldn't stand to lose me over it". But love does not "seek it's own". I just have to try to believe that he really did love me but he just messed up. It hurts so much, more than anything ever did. Not his past, but that he lied to me. I read about other people finding stuff out later, but I never thought that would happen to me, I never thought he would hurt me like that. <P>He really thought I would leave him over it, but of course I won't. I have never seen anyone look so scared in all my life. But love forgives, and I love him with the kind of love that can only come about because of God. My marriage would be over right now if not for Him. My husband says he doesn't want to be like that any more, and we now talk about everything openly. But now I feel like I will get another awful surprise, after getting two in two days. He took a few days off work so we could just be together. He knows if he leaves me alone, I start to think about it, and unless I can talk to him and ask him questions, it gets worse and worse.<P>But God has brought good out of the worst situations. We were closer than 99% of married couples before, but now we are much closer than we were before he told me everything. We came through the worst of circumstances, and it brought out the best sides in each of us. I know that he truly loves me because he would not leave me until I was ok again. He claims full responsibility for all my pain, even though I was stupid and should have been more careful. We have now started a bible study program every day together, and have agreed that for both of us, healing our souls has to come first in our relationship. Him for guilt over his past, me for feeling jealous about his past and betrayed by his lying to me. <P>Find out about your fiance's past. Go to marriage counseling or whatever it takes so that you don't get the awful surprise that I did. Nothing could hurt worse than this. I will get over his past, but it will take a long time to build trust again. I truly believe that this situation can only be really resolved by open dialogue with your spouse. <P>Another bad thing is that I'm afraid he will find these posts and know it's him. I am considering deleting what I've written, but I want it to stay here to help others in my situation. I would still be on square one without the help of a few people here. <P>I have asked him several times if he has a kid out there, but he says no. I hope that's true.

<small>[ July 18, 2004, 10:10 PM: Message edited by: Roscoe ]</small>

PG,<P>Girl......You said just about everything that I am feeling. This is only one chapter in the saga. <P>The very best thing about all of this is my children. They are such precious gifts. I cannot imagine life without them.<P>I am still very angry, but yet I know as a Christian, these feelings that I have....I need to pray, forgive AND stay.<P>Again, thanks for sharing. It's always good to know that someone understands.<P>I wont't post on this again...H logged on using my (stored) password and has been reading my posts.......<p>[This message has been edited by sickofthis (edited August 10, 2001).]

A big problem is still that I don't really know what he's thinking about stuff and how he feels about stuff. For instance, when he told me that he thinks of women he's had sex with about 4-5 times each times we have sex, I immediately thought that must be because I am not good enough for him in bed, I can't even hold his attention. I've never once thought about someone else. I wasn't mad at him, because he's not doing it on purpose. I was very hurt, though. We eventually figured out that as long as he's looking at me, he doesn't think about anyone else even for a millisecond. This is understandable since men are visually stimulated; his brain is just filling in some random picture when I'm not in the field of view to supply it. It's just faces and stuff, too, not body parts and "recreations of times he was with them", like I imagined. A brain reflex does not hurt me, even though I don't like it. I can understand that and not blame myself, though. <P>He feels very strongly that if I had any sort of a past, it would compound the problem because he would be worried about my past, and both of us would be embarrassed and reluctant to talk about it and we never would have gotten this stuff cleared up. <P>Marital Honesty: No, you don't have to share everything. You don't have to give every detail. I don't want every detail, I DO want to understand his feelings and thoughts about those women, though. That is because my personality type has a need to understand people and their thoughts, especially ones I'm close to. <P>What do you absolutely, positively, no-doubt have to tell your fiance before you get married? Anything that you keep from them because of fear. If you are afraid that they will not love you if they know "the real you", then your love will be stunted at that level. You are not being fair to them if you keep something from them that keeps them from not being able to make an informed decision, even if it means they leave you. You need to tell them and let your love be tested, and if it is really love on both sides, the person won't care and will forgive everything. Even if my husband had admitted the lies right before we got married, I would have still married him. I've totally forgiven him now anyway, but he DID keep those things from me out of fear. And had he told them to me at the beginning of our relationship, yeah, I might have walked. I didn't love him them like I love him now. <P>When he told me his "secrets", he was terrified I would leave him. Now he knows that I really DO love "the real him". He doesn't have it nagging him in the back of his mind. I sure didn't ask for him to tell me anything like this. He felt compelled to tell me. Because he told me, he has finally been able to forgive himself, partly because I forgave him.<P>I am not nearly as hurt now as I was even yesterday. It still hurts me, but now I've realized that whenever it bothers me, I need to reach for my husband right away. He makes it totally better when we talk about it. He *could* tell me to get over it. But he knows that it's his poor choices that are affecting me now, and he feels it's his duty to protect me from all hurt. Yeah, he's a great husband. I get more joy from him than I ever thought would be possible. There is just hurt to work through at the beginning, I guess.<P>I DO think it's ok not to tell someone something if you're sparing their feelings. You can't lie about it, but if I don't think his cooking is great, I'm not going to tell him "you can't cook", I'm going to ask him if we can look at cookbooks, or tell him how much I'd love to help him cook. He can cook, though, that's just theoretical.<P>No, I don't share my postings with my SO. He hears everything I say here, though. The reason I don't tell him about these is because he could read them, then be hurt by something I said strongly but didn't mean the way it's worded, or just didn't come across the same way in print as it did when I thought it. It is much better if we communicate face to face, where we can immediately question each other if we think somebody got the wrong idea. He is aware that I post to discussion groups, and he does too. <P>edit: One thing I should add is that not everybody wants to know all thoughts and stuff. You only share what they ask about then, BUT also things in your past you are afraid they would not love you because of.<p>[This message has been edited by prettygarnet (edited August 10, 2001).]

And...he also told me that he was tested for all STD's and came out clean. Well, that was four women ago, not including me. Big help that is, huh? I feel like complete crap because somebody who says he loves me would put me at risk for AIDS or whatever else horrible disease he could have. He didn't even bother to get tested again before marrying me or having sex with me. And he was not a condom user except with one girl. And these were slutty women. Luckily, I was tested for pretty much everything a few months after we started having sex because I went to a new doctor. I didn't have anything then, but what if there was an incubation period or something? What if I just wasn't infected yet? <P>And all he did when he told me about was whisper "Do you want me to get tested?" <P>I will be telling my sons and daughters to marry a virgin. If it wasn't for all the good parts I would not be able to live through this.

Well I must say this is a tough subject. I read all the way back to the very beginning. We could say that I am one of those women who is married with a past unlike my husbands and my husband is working to get over it. I thought maybe posting my point of view would help the ;who's wives past relationships bother. <BR>My husband knew of my sexual past before we got married, it was "when" we got married the problems arouse. The issue was I had to many, he wondered if he was good enough for me, and if he could give me what others had in bed. He was constantly asking "have you tried this" or what not. <BR>He had had a past as well, not as fulfilling as mine however. <BR>Here is my point of view on the whole out take of it:<BR>Somewhere in the back of everyone's head is the "What if" insecurity. I think everyone has to some degree. "What if my spouse does have an STD". "What if my spouse did have an affair"; etc. <BR>Everyone's past has made them who they are today. The boyfriend that every girl has had that was cruel to them, made the woman stronger. Every man who has had a sexual affair with so many women, at least he knows what he wants in a wife. So at times, maybe we should also be thankful for our past. Because if didn't have them, what would we be? <BR>Talking about your past is probably the best thing there is to do. Talk about it and get over it. Everyone has got to have had this question;"Am I good enough for their spouse?". Honestly, I don't think we would have married them if we didn't feel that way. Sometimes, we do have a tendency to hide our past and secrets of it. Some things are better left unsaid. Then you have the honesty issue, so everything needs to be said. So what is the middle ground that everyone can come to? In todays society you have worry about being judged and lack of respect you are dealt with and that does take a toll on whether or not being honest is the right thing. But with love, comes the honesty and respect so we shouldn't be afraid to tell each other what we feel and all of our deepest secrets. We can take that chance of being rejected because of what we did and how we handled it,thats nature. For every person that has a problem with our spouse's past, believe me, the one with the past has the same issue's. And sometimes, that person just as soon forget about it than talk about it. But for the sake of love and happiness, I talked. He would ask questions and I told him everything, without holding back. It hurt him alot, but now that he knows everything, its better for us. Better for me to move on and not think of it, and he doesn't have the insecurities of wondering if he is good enough for me. For us the secret was time and communication. I hope this helped those that don't understand why their spouse didn't tell them sooner or lied about it. They were scared, more than you could ever imagine, and what their true love, their soul mate..would think of them.

<small>[ July 18, 2004, 10:13 PM: Message edited by: Roscoe ]</small>

<small>[ July 18, 2004, 10:11 PM: Message edited by: Roscoe ]</small>

My husband and I have also had problems with issues of past sexual relationships. It seems that some of you believe it would be easier to deal with your spouse's past if you were not a virgin. My husband and I both were with 3 other people prior to marriage. We disclosed these things to each other before we got married. My husband, however, has had many of the difficulties you describe (of picturing things in his mind, etc.). I don't know how much this will help, but here is a woman's perspective. I am ashamed of the mistakes I made in the past. I wish they had not happened, but of course there is nothing I can do to change it now. It just kills me inside to know that my past hurts my husband, and there is nothing I can do to change it. It makes you feel so helpless. If your wife become upset and defensive when you talk to her about these things it is probably because she wishes she could change the past, but she is powerless to do anything, and feels there is no way to make you feel better. She feels like a failure as a wife because of the hurt she is causing. I stongly encourage you to ask for God's help here. Ask him to help you realize that your wife chose YOU to be with for the rest of her life. I guarantee you she does not fantasize about the past . As for myself, I never think about it until he begins to ask me about it. I'd rather not, but I have to in order to try to help him. Please try to avoid asking questions that are not designed to help - just to wound you further. If you want to know details, you should be prepared. She is being honest with you when it would be so much easier to keep these things inside so you can't judge her. She has scars from those past mistakes, and she is revealing them to you - telling you this is who I am, these are the mistake I made. Please accept me and forgive me. You have a right to know what is there, but as a loving husband, try your best to be understanding, and know it kills her to hurt you. Don't tear open her scars and cause a bigger wound. Again, I cannot emphasize enough... pray about it. For hurts that are so large and destructive, the two of you are not equiped to "fix it" on your own. God can help you to begin to heal, and to forgive each other. God Bless You, and I wish you the very best!

I can understand the pain and anger of so many posts in here but I cannot relate to alot of it. I am a firm believer that things happen for a reason, whether they be good or horrifically terrible. But there is a fine line between honesty and faithfulness. When you are married, isn't faith, honesty, trust and respect some of the key things to have to keep a strong relationship? I do not understand how someone can have the nerve to betray those feelings and expect to be forgiven. They are hurting themselves as well as loved ones. Possibly somewhere in the back of their derranged heads they think they are invincible? If that were the case; than to me it is lack of sincerety and insecurities that need to be dealt with. All in all, those that have affairs or "flings" while married is completely wrong! With that said, anyone that cheats while in a relatinship is wrong as well! I wonder what it is they are thinking at that very moment? Do they not think of our children? Of us? Of the future outcome of their actions? The looks of disgust and betrayal from our friends? Are they that disrespectful? Please, if someone knows what they are thinking, I would like to hear it out of curiosity. To see if the person that has the afair is honest to others, seriously.

You are right Roscoe, I should be called "pretty mad garnet" right now. He's already made a quick appointment to get tested. I can't believe anyone could be so careless and stupid with their own life, let alone their wife's. I would NEVER have put him at risk for anything. I'll just be happy if neither one of us has any diseases, at this point. All the arrests, flashbacks, comparisons, etc., really fade in comparison to possibly killing both of us and/or leaving us childless. <P>I WISH the past was the past, but it's not. My husband feels like crap because he knows this hurts me. I don't want to make him feel bad, but he says it hurts him worse if I hide it from him. <P>Sexual things are like that. Nobody ever says "Every time I walk into Target I have flashbacks of the time I shoplifted when I was 16". But here my husband is having flashbacks while we have sex. Not anymore, he says. Nothing else affects you like that, that I know of. I've never seen a porn movie, and never fantasized about sex. At least not in any sort of realistic way. You can't fantasize what you don't know. We taped ourselves, and guess what I have in my head when we have sex now? It's ok, because it's my husband. But I am VERY glad that I did not watch porn while growing up.<P>I keep telling myself that he's worth all the trouble. If he did give me some horrible disease, I don't think I'll be able to say that. I gave him everything, my youth, my innocent, my virginity, mind, and heart. Does he have to take my life, too? Why couldn't HE have been more careful? I didn't ask really specific questions before we had sex, but I did ask if he had been tested and if he had anything. He said he'd been tested and he was clean. Stupid me trusted that. How naive I was. That's why I still cry when I look at my wedding dress, because I remember how happy I was in my stupidity. And we read "Before you get married" books, and answered the questions, had pre-marital counseling, etc. <P>One of the worst things is that my dad said that he thought we should wait to get married. I hate it when my dad is right, that guy is just too smart. I should have listened to him. He knew better, just like always. <P>None of us deserves to be forgiven. I do forgive my husband, though. He thought that I wouldn't, he thought I would leave him. He does say if he could go back, he would live his life differently, now that he knows what he does. I was brought up in a family where repurcussions of premarital sex were discussed. His family didn't discuss it, but he was exposed to porn by his sister's boyfriend, saw his sister having sex, and was sexually experimented with by his sister. I haven't talked to his sister, but I'm pretty sure something happened to her first. Talk about starting off on the wrong path. I can't blame him, I just can't. If I'd been brought up in a Godless home, exposed to that kind of stuff, I'd be just like him. I DID see a Joy of Sex book when I was about 13, but I wasn't scarred at all by it. Rather, I thought, "Oh, THAT'S what married people do!" I was curious, but that's it. No way was I going to find out before I was supposed to. <P>I do think the best advice is to talk it over. I would never ask him another question again, but I'd still end up festering 40 years from now if I did that.<P>4given - I asked my husband if he wished I'd had sex with other people, and he said no. He said he's glad I don't know how bad it makes you feel. I am sure God's advice is the best on this one. There's no way we could have gotten through this without Him, either.

Hi again, it looks like no one has posted to this topic for awhile, but if anyone is still reading... I have talked with my husband about this quite a bit, and we're doing really well with it. Again, we both had the same number of parters before marriage, but he still has had real problems with the thought of me with someone else. At times, it has gotten almost unbearable. After some serious discussions, fights, hurt feelings, etc... things have gotten much better. My husband finally revealed to me that because of insecurities, low self-esteem, guilt over his own past he often felt that maybe he wasn't good enough for me. He thought there might be someone else out there who would be a better husband. Then, because he was thinking those things, he began to wonder if I might think those things also. He said when he really dug down and decided to be honest with himself, he realized he was throwing my past in my face all the time to make himself feel more worthy of my love. He also wanted me to feel he was worthy. I know this won't be the case for everyone having these problems, but it may be for some... when my H revealed that to me it made a world of difference. It made me feel better about the whole situation because I no longer felt that he was judging me - that he didn't think I was a bad person. He was actually thinking that he wasn't good enough. I did notice that many times the whole issue came up if I was trying to talk to him, for instance, about something he had done that hurt my feelings... he would start to feel like he was failing me, or I was doubting him, & start bringing my past up. Is this ever the situation with any of you? If this is the problem, then the root of the issue might be something else. How do you feel about yourself? Do you feel like you are "lucky" to have your spouse, but not so much like they are "lucky" to have you too? Do you ever feel they might be better off with someone else? If you have those feelings, it does a world of good to convey them to your SO (at least it has for us). I need to go out of my way to make sure my H knows how I feel about him (and not assume he knows). I honestly feel he is my soulmate and my best friend. He is loving, sensitive, and caring... I wouldn't trade him for the world. He loves it when I let him know he's my hero. He truly is. Well, I've rambled, but I hope this may help some of you. Try to dig deep and be honest with yourself. It might be scary, but you'll never resolve any problems if you can't get to the truth behind them. God Bless.

Yep, we're still reading. <P>My husband and I tell each other pretty much every day that we feel lucky to have each other. Even with all the problems, I tell him he's worth it. Probably not if he gave me something terrible. It was really humiliating to go in with him to get tested, too, because I am his wife. Not his girlfriend, where maybe we didn't do anything yet, but I'm his *wife*. The doctor wouldn't even test him for some stuff, because he said he was unlikely he'd have it and not know it. Unlikely, yes, but that means *I* have to go get tested anyway. Why should I have to do it? <P>The things my husband tells me are a mixed bag. He told me how often he had sex with the other women, and with some of them it was almost as often as we have sex. Thing is, I have to practically beg him for sex, and he acts like I just want it so much. I don't like begging him for things he begged other girls for. (He already told me other girls didn't initiate). He says it's different with me, and that he just really likes it when I ask him. Of course, he also told me that he's never come in anybody but me. Yeah, that would make it "different". How in the world do you have sex and not come at all, and the 20% of the time you do come, it's not even in her, or maybe with a condom on? Why would anyone have such half-a*sed sex? Why bother? That's like eating ice-milk. I had just assumed he knew what he was doing in bed, and it was me that was doing something wrong. Um, no. I don't see how anyone could have that much sex and not learn anything, either. It's a good thing I AM somebody who doesn't just give up. <P>There are just so many issues with this, and him lying to me about it, and putting my life in danger, and things I can't even think of. I don't think there's any way to bring it down to one point. I wish there was, maybe it would make it easier.<P>PG

I am a woman who has had what people posting here would consider a lot (13) sexual partners before getting married. Just to supply another perspective to this forum, I'm having a difficult time relating to the problems you're having dealing with your partners pasts. <BR>I didn't get married until I was 29 my husband was 35. I lost my virginity when I was 16 to boyfriend who I dated from when I was a sophomore in highschool until I was a sophomore in college. Between that time and 29 is quite awhile. In college I did "hook up" with people at bars. Never anyone I didn't know - mostly friends. Sex was no big deal. I had a few one night stands, a few serial hook ups etc. It's not something that I exactly brag about to people but I'm not ashamed of it either. That was the college lifestyle. I've actually had fewer partners than many of my friends.<BR>I'm guessing my husband has had fewer partners than I have. We've never really discussed it. He is aware that I slept around a little bit for a few years and I know in a general sort of way the extent of his sexual past. It's just so not an issue. It may be because we're coming from the same sort of basic background - same college, many of the same friends, same bars, same expectations. <BR>The thing we do know for sure is that sex with each other is the best we've ever had. The guys I slept with before were just diversions - I was never truly, deeply in love with any of them and let me tell you, that makes all the difference in the world.<BR>The thing you should keep in mind is that sex and making love are two entirely different acts. I'm willing to bet that your partners probably feel the same way. And, as my husband said to me with astonishment on our honeymoon-"No one ever told me sex would be BETTER after getting married!!"<BR>

Here is an interesting article that I've pasted here for general thought concerning a woman's sexual past:<P>"I receive a lot of e-mail from women asking the same question Stacy poses. So I finally decided to give my take on the subject. But before I begin, allow me to stress that I'm not passing judgment on women, nor am I saying that women shouldn't enjoy themselves sexually. Hey, I'm enjoying the abundant supply of women too. The following explains how most men feel, and why some of us can't handle the truth. <BR>An object that has value is worshipped, respected, cherished, and shared with very few deserving people. As soon as you start sharing that object with anyone and without care, the object starts to lose value. The more people use the object, the more it depreciates and the less bargaining power it has: this is a plain psychological fact of life. <BR>Most women don't realize the importance men place on a woman's promiscuity. Women think that because men don't care about how many women they've slept with, they won't care about how many men their woman has slept with. But the reality is that most men (those looking for a serious relationship and not a one-night stand) do place great value on a woman's sexual restraint. <BR>There was a time when many women cherished their bodies much like a sacred temple. Where only a noble man, one who respected and loved her, had access to her body. <BR>But over time, it seems that women have failed to realize the important role their sexuality plays in finding a long-term mate. Thanks to the women's movement, women are so busy trying to compete with men -- including in the sex department -- that they fail to realize the consequences of their actions. <BR>Today, it seems that women are the ones who are collecting notches on their Prada belts by giving their bodies away too easily. But if women themselves don't value their bodies like they used to, why should men? <BR>Some women will argue that if men have the right to sleep around, so should women. But I ask only one question: If women adamantly believe this, then why is it that when faced with the question, "How many men have you slept with?", most women who have slept around with truckloads of men always lie? <BR>Some women will rationalize that they must do so because men can't handle the truth. But if this is the case, why don't women let men decide for themselves if they can or can't handle it? Why do women need to lie to protect men's egos? I think women lie to protect themselves -- rather than men -- because if it's not shame or regret that's making you hold your tongue, then the potentially dire consequences of the truth surely are.<P><BR>Women have sexual propositions directly or indirectly thrown at them every single day. Because of this abundant supply of penis, women have the final decision to act on or ignore such propositions, and the men looking for long-term mates fear this. <BR>Men, on the other hand, don't necessarily have women on bended knee with diamond rings and gold bracelets, so they pretty much take it when they can. Maybe this is one of the reasons why men, unlike women, find it so hard to resist the advancements of the opposite sex. <BR>You see, men know how hard it is to control themselves. Think about it for a moment: how many times have you heard men say, "Gee, if I was a woman, I'd be getting laid every day?" <BR>Men recognize the power of a woman's sexuality. In turn, men appreciate and place great value on women who can control themselves and demonstrate a certain degree of sexual discipline because most men certainly can't. <BR>If a woman can show men that she is honest, loyal, trustworthy, and sexually responsible, then she will have the most powerful weapon to attract men. If, on the other hand, a woman abuses her sexual power with many men, it will backfire on her. Unfortunately, women only realize this after they've had their "women's movement fun," when it's too late and the only choice they have is to lie. <P>Over the past years, most women have lost a sense of value for their sexuality. They've realized that sex is fun and pleasurable, but in the process, they've forgotten that it's the one gift that they can offer their lover, and that so many men value. <BR>Think about it for a moment: if men value a woman's purity so much, how do you think they feel when they receive the same gift offered to so many other men? Here's a better example: if I were to offer Stacy the same engagement ring that I once offered my ex-fiancée, would she appreciate it? I'm sure she wouldn't, and it's only a ring. Then how do you think men feel when a woman offers herself once she's already offered it to so many other men? <BR>Women have lost sight of their own true value for several reasons: <BR>Mistaken sex for love<BR>As more and more women put their careers ahead of their social lives, they're getting married at a later age. But because of an emotional void, some find the wait a little too long and replace love with sex. <BR>Competition <BR>Some women are very much aware that there are a lot of women giving themselves away too easily and fear that if they're not giving it to their man, another woman will. <BR>I'm not saying that a woman should wait for marriage before having sex. All I'm suggesting is that she wait a little bit before giving her sacred body away. I know the pleasure of sex is worthy, but a woman is only shooting herself in the foot by giving it away at the drop of a dime. <BR>A woman should give the man the test of time and make him wait at least three months before having full intercourse with him. If he can't wait that long, well her life just became a little less complicated because she knows that she's dealing with a man who is just using her for her body. In the end, she'll have peace of mind that she didn't waste her precious gift on a man who simply wanted to use her. <BR>Women's movement & media<BR>Both the women's movement and the media have encouraged women to compete with men in all aspects of life, including sex. Unfortunately, they forgot to mention the consequences, and now you have very happy men who don't need to commit, and very sad women wondering why men don't want to.<BR>Most men will agree that they're always on the lookout for a serious soul mate. But this doesn't mean that they can't have fun in the process. So if there are women giving themselves away without commitment, men will definitely pounce on the opportunity. <BR>Inadvertently, when men meet women, they usually categorize them into two categories: the potentially serious relationship kind, or the "have fun in the process" girl. The outcome of the man's decision will ultimately be based on how a woman behaves around him. <BR>If she sleeps with him on the first few nights, he'll definitely throw her in the fun category. But if she can show him that her body is worth a lot more and that he's going to have to commit to a serious relationship before he can taste her, he'll definitely consider her as serious potential. <BR>Why do we men behave in such a way? Because we are very much aware of how hard it is to control ourselves when seduced by women. Therefore, we fear women who are equally sexually active -- especially when they have dozens of men courting them -- because they also lack that control. <P>The women's sexual movement had women across the United States screaming, "We want equal treatment! We want to be able to do everything men do! We want to have sex!" Well, women did just that and unfortunately, they abused their sexual magic to the point where it lost its value over time. <BR>There used to be a time when women could signal to a man, "If you stay with me, I'll let you have my body." But now men are saying, "It's okay, you can keep it because with all this supply, it's just not worth as much as it once was." <BR>That's why today, we find a lot of women complaining that men no longer want to commit. This is false; men still want to commit, but women no longer have that special gift to bait men into a relationship. <BR>After all, if the body becomes familiar and the personality becomes aggravating, what else is there left to commit to? Well, I'd like to think that it is the woman's special gift that keeps a man hooked. <P>Women need to realize that their bodies are temples -- or at least men like to think so -- and that they shouldn't be shared with any Tom, [censored] or Harry. Once a woman realizes this, three things will happen: <BR>1. She'll appreciate herself a lot more, and in turn the man will gain more respect for her and realize that he has a valuable treasure. <BR>2. The man who had to work hard and commit in order to bed a woman will appreciate her more. After all, time was invested in her. <BR>3. The sex will be brought to a whole new passionate level when she finally makes love to the man who fought for her -- by being patient. <BR>Today too many people -- including myself -- place too much importance on sex. This explains why so many marriagesdon't work. People base their whole relationship on sex and don't realize that when the passion disappears, and the honeymoon phase dies down, there is nothing left but each other's flaws."<P>

<small>[ July 18, 2004, 10:12 PM: Message edited by: Roscoe ]</small>

Roscoe, my husband says that sex before marriage was nothing like sex after marriage. He says that the emotional and spiritual side actually make the physical side feel a whole lot better. Um, he would orgasm about 20% of the time with other women. Yeah, I know that's unusual for a guy. Even with me, he'd come about 50% for the first couple months we had sex. He never came from a blow job, never came inside a woman without a condom on (and rarely did that, anyway, usually it was him hoping to pull out in time)...I don't know why anyone would keep doing something so half-assed, but he says at the time, he thought he was having fun. It's like he was eating ice-milk and finally got to some Haagen-Daaz. <P>It's hard for me to understand that, since people sometimes say they like uncommitted sex the best, etc. My husband says their idiots and haven't had anything better, and they just don't know what they're missing. It's easy for me to agree with that statement, but I don't have any personal experience with it. However, I do know that the couple times I've had sex with my husband when I was still a little upset with him, it didn't feel very good at all. It was still something I would have called "good" if I hadn't know better, but it was not the normal "lose all awareness of everything else" type of thing that sex usually is for me. And believe me, I was trying my best to get into it. It just didn't work. <P>dec10 - I've read that article before. I feel the same way about my husband, though. He didn't treat himself or sex very special, so it's hard for me to think of it differently from how he treated it. I think many women are in denial about how men view them when they're promiscuous.<P>sweetjane - It wouldn't bother you ifyour husband has flashbacks to having sex with other women while he has sex with you?<P>It wouldn't bother you if your husband never said your name during sex, and you just knew it was because he didn't want to say the wrong one?<P>It wouldn't bother you that he put you at risk for STD's, stupidly and needlessly? Even when he assured you that he'd been tested and was clean (but he wasn't)?<P>It wouldn't bother you if he'd been arrested for sexual things in the past, and lied to you about it?<P>It wouldn't bother you if he cheated on other girlfriends, then lied to you about that, too?<P>It doesn't bother you that somebody else got to share with him all the "opening up" and wonderment of having sex for the first time? My husband's first time sucked, I can't be envious of the girl who did it with him. But if he'd waited for me, it would have been great. That's what I miss.

I too think that article is wrong. It seems to me that it would go both ways - that women would worry about mens' sexual past as well. Overall I thought the article was BS. I bet about 20% of the population might feel that way.<P>I think problems arise when one person has had more considerably more partners that the other. When past experience is fairly equal - it's not an issue to either person. Which, to me, would be a good argument for women to experiment with other people before getting married. Then neither person would have idealistic or unrealistic expectations of the other. Almost all of the posts on this topic are from people who were virgins when they got married and their spouse was not. I suppose the answer would be for people to marry someone with a similar sexual past. Virgins marry virgins. :-)<P>prettygarnett - I never said those things wouldn't bother me. Our sexual pasts were not an issue to us. My husband has never had any occasion to lie to me about his past because I'm not bothered by it. Had he been arrested for something involving sex (the only things I can imagine here is picking up a prostitute or statutory rape) I would probably have some concerns. That's kind of off the topic though. What I said was that the number of partners either of us have had is not an issue. As to him losing his virginity to someone else - I would actually be very concerned if he had made it to 35 without having slept with someone else. Your first, second, fifth etc. time doesn't matter - it's how you feel about the person you're with right now. <P>I do think its odd that your husband told you he thinks about past experiences when he's with you. I've never done that and my husband says he never has either. When I'm with him, I'm absolutely just with him and he's said the same.

Im right there with ya on this. I read every word. I had sex with 3 partners before I married my husband. He had sex with maybe 100 slutty women. Yet, now, it is tough for me to even get sex out of him. <P>we have intercourse about every few months and hand-jobs every week ( only because I have demanded at least some sexual satisfaction once a week). I hate my sex life. With my other long term partners, sex was easy yet special and I got enough of it with no big deal. This guy, my husband, I don't know what he wants half the time. I know he won't give me oral sex. About all I get is a good hand-job or play with a sex toy. I went thru months where I felt I was not good enough in bed for him. <P>I tried to find reasons he would not approach me for sex like other normal men did. I yelled at him once that he had ruined his and our sex life by sleeping with all those sluts. He says he never was that aggresive in getting sex so he had to go to slutty, more aggressive type women to get it. <P>Why did he have sex with all those many strange bar sluts?????!!!! And why is he not a passionate expert in bed now that he has had all this experiance? He has the same problems described in this thread. He hardly ever gets off during intercourse, never during oral and most times during hand-job sex if I do it just right for at least 1/2 hours. <P>His morals really were bad. He drank, smoked, took drugs and slept with all these women. I don't know why I love him so much except that was all in his distant past (he tells me).<P>Why did I maintain such sexual control for when he let loose sexually!? It is not fair that I was so darn careful. I only had sex with very very close boyfriends in long term safe relationships. He had it with strangers. I am still so mad about this. <P>If I did not love him so much and want so much to be on his sexual level, it would NOT bother me so much. BUT HE RUINIED THE POSSIBILITY THAT WE WOULD EVER BE ON THE SAME SEXUAL LEVEL! By opening himself up sexually to many crazy, slutty women sex became "not special". He even said to me once, what is the big deal, it is only sex! <P>I wish I would get over this issue but I feel it has been three years and I am not over it yet and I cannot understand anyone having numerous strange sex partners without wanting a relationship.<P>He brags about never having to pay for sex. ( like a prostitute) Wow, I am so proud of him...he may as well have paid since he did pay on an emotional level and spiritual level as well as our sex life suffers now because of it. More than he knows. Was he stupid????I can't figure out how he could get drunk and have sex with sluts. I asked him one day,"did'nt your parents ever teach you any morals???"<P>I told him I was going to counseling about this issue but he said NO. And opened up to me a tiny bit more. I am still trying to get a grasp on what will make our sex life better and make me forgive him and forget about his immoral past. Why couldnt I just meet someone who was sexually on my level??? We are perfectly compatable on all other levels but the sexual one. That is what is so painful. <P>I could go on and on about how rejected I feel. I feel if he could have sex with strangers, why does he not want it from me very often??? I asked him if he would mind if we had an open relationship so I could go out and have sex with some more men to make our pasts equal and he said NO!. Of course I would not do that, I have morals....

I'm just glad my husband doesn't have any STDS that we know of. Of course, 99.9% of all cases of cervial cancer are because of HPV, and there's no test for HPV, and 70% of all sexual active singles have it...so who knows what the future will bring. <P>I am still a lot better with this than I was before. The 15 year old bothers me the most. He was a monster. He's nothing like that now, and it's hard for me to separate the criminal jerk from the man I know now. It's worse because he lied to me, too. The worst part is...even if he gave me something deadly, I still would love him. The man did the same thing as pointing a gun to my head and pulling the trigger, then telling me he didn't think the gun was loaded, and I would still love him even if there WAS a bullet in there.