Although his was a dissenting post from most others, Lousy Golfer's two comments inspired me to undertake a huge introspective research journey, resulting in our decision to expose my WH's 4 month (3 D-Days) EA to OW's husband.

Thank you everyone for your willingness to post your passions on both sides of this issue. You've all assisted in helping me build my trust, which was my objective in registering with MB.



LG, here’s how you've helped us get 'unstuck'. It wasn't only what you said, but it was also how you courageously said it that inspired me to dig really deep to find:

a. Reasons to expose
b. Circumstances to consider



In my 2 weeks of prayer and research (including self exile from MB posting), here's what I discovered were my reasons and also circumstances not included in my posts (a major excluded circumstance was my H's self test and subsequent lies in mid November).


3-WORD REASONS TO EXPOSE TO OWH:

1. Builds MY Trust
2. He Deserves Information
3. Increase WH Accountability
4. Avoid Being Enabler
5. Provide Preventative Pain (as described in Carder's Torn Asunder)
6. Alleviate Future Guilt

2-WORD REASONS NOT TO EXPOSE TO OWH:

1. No Need ( Seems like NC intact)
2. Too Late (6 months since NC)
3. Violate Blackmail (My naive pledge to OW to expose only if she violates NC)
4. Avert Responsibility (for OP's S, D or suicide)
5. Avoid Retailation (OWH coming after my H or me)

BECAUSE I REALIZED THAT MY TRUSTBUILDING EFFORTS WERE STIFLED BY THE IMPACT OF THAT WORD 'SEEMS' , IT NEGATED THE ENTIRE LIST OF WHY NOT TO EXPOSE....

...so yesterday I called OWH at work and mailed a confidential package (including a letter of apology from my husband and other evidence) to the other woman's husband that was apparently signed for today. YEA! YEA! YEA!!!

Thanks to all again for your support on behalf of my STB F WH and me. I am praying that as we recover, we can be of as much help to others as you've all been to us.

Blessings to all,
Ace

Ace:

Thank you.

Keep coming back, We will be glad to continue to help!

LG

Dang,

Here I was thinking that I was going to get the credit for courageously not posting at all on your thread.

Mr. Wondering <snicker>

p.s. - It's all good

Thank YOU LG....for taking a stand in spite of what you called 'being a whipping boy' on my thread. I wanted to say something that day but I was kinda pre-occupied......it took awhile to create the evidence packet.

I could not have done it (exposed to OWH) as effectively or confidently if I had not had many handwritten cards and postmarked envelopes......we nearly burned them all after D Day #1......but we needed them to attempt to prove that my letter was true. (Even if my info falls on deaf ears at least I gave him the option to know.)

You all would have been proud of me, even those who did not think I should expose when I calmly called him to confirm a package marked confidential would actually be delivered intact to him. (He said he appreciated my thoughtfulness!) Of course, I could hardly hear him b/c my heart was beating so loudly in my throat.

To those who agreed with LG that 'under the circumstances do not expose', there were many extenuating circumstances I did not post, but they were revealed to resources who helped us. (I would have listed these details eventually, but the passionate posting took on such a fury I felt it was best if I removed myself from the fracus. Even though I appreciated everyone's input, it's a moot point now.)

I know it will take time to process this. Love to hear any hints or suggestions anyone can share on how to QUIT WANTING TO BE A FLY on their wall.

Ace

Mr. W. Where ya been? You and Mrs. W. always deserve credit. I appreciated your thread to Mr. & Mrs. LG. Pray that one day we'll have a Mr. & Mrs. Ace posting, too.

(In the meantime, I'll make up for the both of us.)

Ace

Ace,

Do keep us updated about how you and your husband feel now having done this.

It's always been a premise of mine that once it's done the hesitant exposer poster always looks back in hindsight and says "why didn't I/we do that earlier", "I/we do feel better" and "We had no idea it actually was an albatros around our neck".

Basically, some of the most hesitant exposers of the past are exposures greatest proponents of the future. It just makes so much sense NOW....doesn't it??? (may be little early for you to tell...keep us updated).

Mr. Wondering

Absolutely, MrW and Ace.

The final trick is to not spend any more time worrying about how the OP or OPS will respond or what they are or aren't doing.

I learned a bit too much about how much the OM wife was doing -- or actually NOT doing -- and it cheezed me up for quite some time. I exposed to her, he lied his slimy bald head out of it, his wife believed him . . .

Oh well.....I still have my wife and family -- who cares what he does or doesn't have.

That's the important thing at this point, Ace. Close that chapter. You did your part and now focus all your energy inward on your marriage. You'll be through this with flying colors.

Ya did good, Ace.

Keep us posted.

Artor & Mr. & Mrs. W.

My husband calls me "wonder woman", not because of any super human traits but because I WONDER about everything. This experience, while lifechanging, emphasized my need to get that aspect of my personality under control.

Artor, I'll always be grateful that you took time to reply twice to my first post just as I was about to give up.

I appreciate your suggestions to focus on my husband and me. He was against exposure initially when our MC said to "let God take care of OW and her H". When I caught him lying (Nov.06), he seemed to change when I agreed that I indeed DID DESERVED BETTER and that he should go. (Hardest words I ever had to speak, but they were effective.) He turned at the door and begged me for one last chance....his 4th strike.

Since that night, his mantra has been "I'll do WHATEVER IT TAKES to help you heal." But now, as opposed to when he said the same thing last summer, he has a contrite heart spirit to match his words. That builds my trust in him....until triggers and flashbacks sabotage my efforts.

As soon as I found this web site, registered and began posting and sharing what I was learning, he maintained that 'if it would help me heal he would do it immediately in any way I needed it done'....including exposure to OW H.

Other insights from both BS and WS perspectives would be helpful to keep my 'wonderings' positive. So, MR. W....since ya boycotted my thread (and then snickered about it) I challenge you to help keep this thread alive so others contemplating delayed exposure to OPS can be helped as much as we have.


Ace
(whose once 'holey' bucket is becoming 'whole')

Hi LG, good to see ya here (6 AM pst)

Ace

Ace:

Just looking around, before I dive into work...

OK, you have exposed, what next?

You need to look into what Emotional Needs exist between you and your WS, and purchase His Needs, Her Needs (HNHN) from this website to start reading and understanding to get your recovery rolling.

You should also purchase Surviving an Affair (SAA). You will find out alot about how your M ended up in the place it did.

Read them both with your H. Then, before long, the two of you will have a new vocabulary. Will you still fight and argue? Yes, but it will be different and you will also learn where to stop from having the argument turn into warfare.

You are on a new path. Your H still needs to really get on board, but if he has been here at MB, then that is an excellent start, and your M recovery can proceed at a significantly faster pace.

Thanks again for the shout out!

LG

ACE

Like LG said...get HNHN....but I suggest the CD audio version. Then you and your husband take a roadtrip and listen to it TOGETHER.

You can pause and discuss
You can discuss on pit stops

Men are great conversationists when driving. They don't feel cornered, no distractions, no non-verbal communication.

It's a great place to get a man to open up and REALLY TALK.

Mr. Wondering

Thanks for the heads up, LG and Mr W!

(I just completed this post, or so I thought, and went to submit and got that dastardly screen saying it was no longer valid.....so I copied it, and pulled up a new screen, and whaaala....there's a new note from MR. WONDERING, too....do you accept my challenge? Hope this works now.)

I guess we've done things backwards, but if it works, it works...right?

I accidently found SAA on a bookshelf last fall and we began reading it every night along with the Couple's Bible study outline.

Then I bought HNHN and Love Busters, which we both read...took questionnaires, remind each other often, etc. We are now reading every night and many mornings Total Forgiveness by RT Kendall and next is Falling in Love, Staying in Love.

MB sent us I promise you which I want to read before giving to our newlywed son and wife.

According to many posters on my early threads, my husband is doing far more than most WS involved with these boards....when I shared such comments with him, he wryly replied "So am I the best of the worst?"

(But, of course I told him he is second only to you, LG, and often even that is debatable! LOL...just kidding!)

But once he gets 'on board' (get it?) he could pass you up in the 'best of the worst' category! (Is there an intriguing thread here somewhere?) Not goin' there.

Let's see, what else are we doing...oh yeah, one of my biggest EN is getting long affirming messages and my H is painstakingly making efforts to write (and journal) his thoughts of me and of us and our future. He now even writes in long hand.

And, immediately after I shipped the exposure package, he called me, rejoiced with me sincerely and then mentioned Valentines Day a whole week in advance....in the past he's forgotten, acted as if he was obligated 'ta do sumtim so whada ya wanna do?' One year he gave me a card that said "From your wife" instead of "For my wife" like he thought.....and I now can't find it for the life of me.

So after next Wed, I'll fill you in on the most exciting Valentines Day I've ever anticipated in our 32 year marriage.

Sorry if this is TMI....I am practicing focusing my efforts on my husband and me....please bear with me.

Keep the suggestions coming.....I think I am experiencing withdrawal....or something....it's like Inigo Montoya in Princess Bride who, after fulfilling a major goal (revenge on the 6 finger man) said "Whoah....I've been in the revenge business for so long, now that it's over, I dunno what to do with myself."

I was not out for revenge, and my sitch is not over, but the major focus for the past 6 months has started a transition.....and I'm just askin' for help hangin' on for the ride.

Does that make sense to anyone? Sorry for the ramblin' but I'm not sure what to think right now so I'll just stop with "thanks for reading"!

Ace

Ace:

I agree with Mr. W on this as well.

I read the book, but we have the CD's and have continued to listen to them.

And I would recommend the MB weekend. Read Motarman's recent thread about his trip to the San Fran MB W/e. It has supercharged his previously reluctant WW. Yours isn't reluctant, but the MB W/E does provide a focus.

Stay with it...

I was so anxious to send that last post before it disappeared, I decided to share this important aspect of our journey separately:

We found and read the MB books in the fall and I checked out the web site often, but did NOT realize what the discussion forum was until the holidays when I had time to really dig around. I'm sure there was a reason for the delay, but as a side note to any apprehensive lurkers... even though it seems like a risk to bare your soul to unknown masses (and risk becoming a 'whipping boy' like LG), it is so worth it.

Like my previous thread said...your marriage can get 'unstuck' by just asking specific questions and then taking the answers, processing them with prayer, seeking inner truths (even if it means taking time off the boards like it did for me), and rolling with the flow that peace provides.

Ace;

Something you learn the hard way about this site like I did.

You type out your reply. Get it ready to go.

Then, before you hit CONTINUE, you highlight the entire post and hit CTRL-C, to copy it.

Then you can hit the Internet Explorer "Update" button, and then repaste (CTRL-V) into the new blank screen.

Then hit continue. And you won't lose your posts.

One more and I gotta get to work.....even if I can't really focus on anything...another area in which I need help...

Anyhow, to answer LG/Mr. W suggestion....we are planning on going to an MB weekend in March or May. And I will find the CD editions of MB books....great idea.

It's a little scary (but I'm lovin' it) to have a man "who asked me to marry him because God told him to" and the ensuing detachment that developed for 32 years and combined with a major MLC.....anyhow, it's quite foreign to have him softly sincerely say "I'll do whatever you want...just tell me when, where and how...."

But the fear of DDay #4 was just so overwhelming that it blinded me to all his efforts. That cloud, however, is beginning to take a steady flight now that the exposure package has been sent. I am even trying not to be concerned if OWH took the whole package and put it in the round file and chooses to live in denial and her lies. Their loss, right?

OK I'm really done for now. Keep the ideas coming....just ask Pep....I really like challenges!

Ace

Thanks for the tips, LG....get to work...me too.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

you will find ( like I did )

that by doing the scary thing that held you back, you begin to look up to yourself, and admire yourself .... and that new confidence will get you through any exposure fallout that may happen

once everyone who should know knows ... the affair has lost all it's stenched air and your marriage has a newness to it

an unexposed affair is like keeping soiled bed sheets under the folded clean sheets ... the top sheets look alright, but something does not smell fresh no matter how many times they are laundered ... something nasty is still there

of course
this is MY OPINION

Pep <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for the insight, Pep. So who should know? Both OPS, MC, who else? Just curious.

Ace

Ace wrote:

I challenge you to help keep this thread alive so others contemplating delayed exposure to OPS can be helped as much as we have.

Okay, here's a question. Forgive me if this was covered in the other thread about exposure...

I've been debating on telling the OW's XH. They were still married, but separated, when the A began. I don't know the details about why they got separated/divorced, but I don't think it had to do with my H. I think he happened to come along when she "needed" someone.

All I know about the X is what my husband has told me... He was controlling, jealous, and basically a jerk. This, of course, came from the OW, who was sleeping with my H. I wouldn't think that she would have many flattering things to say about her X. My H also told me that their problems started when she went back to work after 15 years and he didn't like it, because he thought she would flirt with other men and he feared she would have an A. My H was still "in the fog" when he told me this, so it went right over his head (or through his ears as things often do) when I said, "Well, I guess he knows her pretty well, since that's the first thing she did."

I never even considered telling him about the A, because they are already divorced and I frankly just don't want to keep the whole drama going. However, after reading so much about exposure lately, I'm having second thoughts. In part, because he might be confused as to why she left him. She took all 3 kids (teenagers) and has turned them against him. He might feel responsible for driving her away with his jealousy and now he has to deal with his kids not having a relationship with him anymore.

The bigger part of me wants to just forget about it and let it be. I really don't want to drag this whole thing out. My H and I are doing great at recovery. He hasn't seen or talked to OW since NC day (2 days after I found out). He has changed jobs, lost all of his former friends (because they are doing the same thing and he wants to get away from bad influences), made new Christian friends, and is 100X better of a father to our boys. This will, no doubt, give OW reason to contact my H again, something she hasn't tried to do either.

Again, I apologize if a scenerio like this was covered in another thread recently that I just missed. If it was and anyone wants to quickly recap, that's cool too.

Thanks for any responses. Sorry to butt in to this thread, but Ace did pose the challenge to keep this thread alive for others like her.

No need to apologize I.S.....the worst thing we could do is start another ruckus that will lead someone into finding help like we did....often it's at the tip of one's nose that can't be seen for the fogged up lenses perched there!

I have no idea what the pros or even Dr. and Mrs. H would say....but you might call the radio show and ask them.

My H and I were doing great, too, but I was under the cloud of fear for 2 reasons that do not apply to your sitch.

Like Dr. Harley told LG, the main reason to expose is to END the affair. Are you certain it's over? If you are then that reason is gone. The other reason given was to provide a random (or direct) act of kindness to help them with their marriage.....which is already non-existent, right?

So if all that you would accomplish was to stir up a reason for her to reconnect with your h does that fit either reason?

I pulled the trigger to try to rebuild my trust by diminishing my fears. Where are you on the 'trustometer"?

The intriguing part was exposing to OWH in of itself did not build my trust in my husband; it was seeing how supportive, cooperative, and encouraging my husband was throughout my agonizing introspection that helped assuage my fears which allowed my trust to grow.

IMHO it comes down to this question...What does your husband think? I think Dr. H would want you to involve enthusiastic RH and JA. Of course, I often think incorrectly so I'll just let others help us rookies out!

Ace

I.S. I found my original thread from Jan. 21 and bumped it for you. "Need Help finding OWH and exposure strategy" or something like that.

Not all, but some of the discussion could be helpful.

Ace

Thank you!

Hi Inner Strength,

Checking in to see if those posts helped you decide on whether to expose to OWXH even though they're divorced.

Time passed makes no difference, but it's only been 2 months. Does your husband show any signs of withdrawal?

To me, it sounds like things have happened really fast. I forgave my H the day after Dday #1 and blindly trusted him. He immediately set up a new email account the next week but convincingly acted as if he had made all these huge changes and I naively believed him. Neither of us knew about withdrawal symptoms.

If you get no responses on this thread, I suggest you post a new one this weekend.

Ace

I very much doubt that. LOL. Classic.

And MrsK is the best of the worst - sorry ace. LOL.

Ok BIG K....I'll take the challenge!

Why is Mrs. K the "best of the worst"?

I'll bet if I tell you the depths of the pit our marriage was in compared to where we are now, that you'll agree that Mr. Ace is up there in the running!

Actually, I was thinking in gender catagories and the fact that LG was a FWH and actively posting to help other gave him the instant nod over Mr. Ace.

She can be the Queen Best of the Worst, OK? What gives her that title?

Shall I threadjack my own thread? Maybe we should move this before it gets out of hand....to where? You're a pro, I'm a rookie, but I got 'accused' of being the "most upbeat gal in Betrayedville" by Chrisner yesterday. I wear that like a crown of honor.

What say you, Big K?

Ace

as the lady driving to Florida said: "It depends"

who else was harmed?

in my case, both sets of parents needed the information ~after~ the affair ended ...

HIS parents would likely run into her and she still wanted to cozy up to them ... they needed the info to protect themselves (and they did)

MY parents because I needed their counsel and support (and my H needed it too)

I also exposed to some of my friends, but that was when I was still insane <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> right after D day ... so it doesn't count <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Pep

Curious:
How many posters here STILL want to get back with their Ex ......even after divorce?
Seems to be a high percentage (of course, with the conditions that any A must be ended and some contrition must be shown).

So once again giving someone simple FACTUAL Information {About Their OWN LIFE, no less} .....is always Relevant for that person or individual.

Its not up to AnyOne else ......to use the WS's Mentality of "I'll decide WHAT you need to KNOW and What you don't".

Simply Give out the information, and WHAT they decide to DO with it ........is Entirely Up to Them.

When in doubt, exposure is best.

If it were me, this is how I'd want it presented:

"Mrs M, I have some information about your husband and marriage during the years of ________ to ______".

I came upon this information via __Source's Name__".

Do you want to know what s/he said?"


Depending on the dates (very old stuff from the early 80s), I would say, no thanks but I appreciate your call.

However it was in 2003/04 I would ask for the information.



I'm just saying it would be nice to be able to evaluate ahead whether it's relevant to my current life.

And don't send me no anony-mouse chicken-shyte coward letter, cuz it'll blow your cred. I've had a known enemy for years and I wouldn't put anything past her to try and hurt me with, so that's why I don't want to hear it. The source is likely going to go right back to pathological lying ho MOW.

Inner Strength, the best thing to do is to contact him and tell him the truth. The affair likely led to his divorce and the loss of his children, so this is information about his life that he sorely needs. That is, IF he is divorced. Probably most of what you have been told is a lie, but it matters not. If he is/was married to her, this is information about his life to which he is entitled to have.


They were having an affair and the victim is the "jerk?" lol <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

And SO What If He Was?

That gives them a pass to have an AFFAIR? Not.

Even with a Divorce,
Some peace can still come with finding out the Truth. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Before I knew the truth,
I THOUGHT that our relationship and Marriage were going down hill .......Because Of ME!

That it was somehow what I was or was NOT doing .......and that the Problem and Fault
were at my Feet.

Both my own Internal Blame mechanism ....and my Wife letting me believe a Lie .......had me thinking all sorts of Crap about myself, that wasn't anywhere near reality.

Now if I had not have found my own evidence,
Its almost a certainty that I'd STILL be thinking that bunch of bull stuff even today .......as my W has admitted that she'd most likely would have Never Come Clean on her own.

So imagine Living with all the guilt and blame , ALL unnecessarily ......and Only due to not having all the pertinent information about your past.

Don't risk having someone Suffer needlessly,
as a result of infidelities best friends, deception and secrecy.
Your all better than that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

really important point TopRope !!!!

Pep:





ROTFLMAO <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

You go, girl!

Inner Strength,

I see you're new....me too. But it seems, from what I've seen so far that you should get your H's agreement and find a way to inform the OPS.

I waited b/c I didn't know, but once I exposed, a weight I never knew I had was lifted off my shoulders. Whether he's M or D matters little.

Okay guys, here's a little more info about the situation with the OWXH. They were already separated and waiting for the final D papers when my H met her.

So, BigK, when I said that I don't think he had anything to do with their D, I SHOULD have said that he actually didn't. Poor wording on my part... Your response of, "I very much doubt that. LOL. Classic.", is probably true in most situations, just not this one.


ML- When I said that all that I know of the XH is what my H has told me (controlling, jerk, etc), I DID follow that up by saying, "This, of course, came from the OW, who was sleeping with my H. I wouldn't think that she would have many flattering things to say about her X." I am not that naive to just believe that this guy is a jerk because my H said so. I actually think that he's probably a decent guy who was married to a *****.

Top Rope's comments are the EXACT REASONS that I am conflicted about telling him. The A did not have anything to do with their original problems, but it does have something to do with who his XW is (then and now). True, it would not change anything about his life now. But it may give him some peace knowing something about his own life that he has been in the dark about.

Now to address Ace (the originator of the whole stinkin' thread <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> )You had concerns that maybe things are happening too fast for us. Yes, I agree that the recovery process is going faster for us than most of the people on this board. There are several reasons I believe that it's going like this for us. Yes, he went through withdrawl- not so pretty for me to see:(. Most of it was during the first few weeks though...

Some of the reasons that we are doing good... He was able to IMMEDIATELY quit his job (same county where she worked). He only saw her during work hours and this was a second job that he only worked about 1 day a week. So, there has been NC whatsoever. All of his time is accounted for and he checks in constantly so that I will learn to trust him again. And to make it perfectly clear, I DO NOT trust him yet. I do not want to have any more D-days than 1! However, he has given me no reason to think that he has had any contact with her. And believe me, I have checked every possible source of communication.

Reason 2: I have started meeting all those needs that I didn't meet before for whatever reason. Even in withdrawl, he could see how hard I was trying and realized why he fell in love with me in the first place. It also made him realize that all those things he told himself about me were not really true, just lies to justify his A. I definitely experienced the "in the fog" state and I don't think that it's truly over for good, but I do see things beginning to click for him about what he's done.

Reason 3: We began MC 2 days after D-day and have continued to WORK at our marriage daily. Not all serious talks, but definitely putting the other's needs first and talking about the A when we need to. Also, we started going back to church for the first time in years.

Okay, this was long enough... Sorry, but I wanted to address everyone as I was the one to originate the second big question. Thank you for all of your responses. I appreciate all of them. And sorry to be unclear about some of the details earlier...

I'll give some more thought to telling the XH and get back to you...

Whoooahhhh! How weird is that? We posted at the same time. I read your post quickly but did not see where you mentioned anything about your H's opinion re: exposing to OPS.

IS, do you know for a FACT, independently verified, that this OW is a) divorced and b)"The A did not have anything to do with their original problems,..."

Are these TRUE FACTS? And if so, how do you know?

MelodyLane,

I saw this thread earlier and it's been silent for several hours.

I posted exactly at the same time Inner Strength did. Weird.

Then I posted again exactly when you did. Weirder still.

Hey Inner Strength....just tryin' to get ya some help here and ya give me hel! for my efforts...LOL!

I did "originate this whole stinkin' thread" without even considering someone would ask a question like yours. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Mel has a great point, as usual....HOW DO YOU KNOW? The fact that he left his job immediately looks good, but distance knows no boundaries these days. My H's OW was across the country (he has never even seen her) and he managed to reconnect and stay underground until he got careless ( I stumbled upon their 'draft & delete' email account accidently when WH didn't realize how it would default on the display.) If I had been vigilent, I possibly could have found it sooner.

I am glad to hear you don't trust him but you can't relax for a minute, sad to say. Believe me I've been through 3 D-days and it nearly killed me.

If she is divorced, it seems that's all the more reason you need to be extra inquisitive and perceptive.

Ace

Oh man Ace! I wasn't trying to give you hel! for helping me out. The "whole stinkin' thread" comment was a slam at ME for hijacking your thread (like it was really yours, but here I am, help me!). I'm sorry if it sounded bad...

HOW DO I KNOW??? I could go into great detail about all the ways that I can (and have) checked up on him. When he quit that job, he started working with my dad... Just the two of them, all day long... Don't think he has seen or talked to her in front of my dad. It was his decision to do that, because he was trying to distance himself as much as possible from the life he used to lead. He does not ever get on the computer and doesn't have access anywhere else, so I know they don't email. He has no other access to phones when he is at work, except his cell phone, and I check ALL calls in and out, then question, look up, call, etc. anything that I am not sure about... And anything I have had to question has turned up legit.

Again, let me say that I DO NOT trust him. I assume he is hiding something before I assume he's telling the truth. It sucks that it has to be that way right now, but it does.

ML- Yes, I do know for a fact that she is divorced... court records. Thank you for your persistence in asking that though. I truly appreciate people who are looking out for others and don't want them to get hurt. I definitely started this process wanting to just believe everything that my H told me, because that's what I had always done. After starting a thread on H and O a few weeks ago, I got some great advice that I have followed and know that my "snooping" is for the good of our marriage.

This will probably be my last post, since I have decided not to tell the OWXH. My H told me a lot of stuff about how he had been arrested for stalking her, she had a restraining order against him, he sent her numerous death threats (notes on her car), etc. I actually defended the guy saying that he probably just wanted to see his kids and she wouldn't let him, then she called the cops and got a restraining order. And that the notes on the car were probably his only way to contact her about the kids since she wouldn't take his calls. Total LB, but if he was going to take her side, I was going to take the X's. Well, anyway, cut to about an hour ago when I spent some $$$ and had a background check done on him. I'm too tired to elaborate, but he does have a record and isn't really someone who I care to upset. I've weighed all the pro's and con's and there are just too many con's for it to be worth the risk.

Thank you, sincerely, to everyone who offered advice. I appreciate it all.

Inner Strength,

I applaud you for your courage. I'll be praying for you and I'm glad I could help with your decision, whether I agree with you or not. My most important concern was that you and your H were in agreement. Sounds like you are.

BTW. I was KIDDING about the 'stinking thread' comment...didn't you see my smiley and LOL?)

I hope you meant that this will be the last post on my thread, or, at least this particular thread. Please keep posting and keep us 'posted' on what transpires with your recovery.

Your questions made my day....I was thrilled to use what little I have to 'acquire' help for someone asking.

I'll keep this going as long as it keeps bumping along.

Bless you Inner Strength,
Ace

PS Are you familiar with Trac phones? They can be hidden in a vehicle easily and are virtually untraceable.

Yes, I meant the last post on this thread, not forever! Of course, I didn't keep my word because here I am again.

Enlighten me on Trac phones... Just wait until tomorrow though <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I am totally drained after "the talk", crying, running background checks, etc.

Bless you as well Ace!

Hi Inner Strength,

I saw that you were posting again last night but I was wiped, too.

Under your circumstances, I would not expose to OWXH at this time, but don't discard the notion that it may still be an option. You're two months from D Day (hopefully #1 and only). It relates to this thread so if you want, we can kick that around.

Please remember that I'm nearly as new as you so I'm sure it won't be long before others give much more insight than I have for you. I do, however have the insidious distinction of having been stupid, naive, blinded, in denial and too-trusting-too-quickly that I actually created my own fate with the 3 D-days. If by chance, my experience can save you from multiple D days, then I'm thankful for it.

I saw you posted on another thread about trust:



I.S., your H sounds eerily like mine last summer. The day after he confessed to me, he told me all the sordid details, cried appropriately, promised he would never do that again...etc. I asked him if I could be on the other line when he called OW (across the country). He hesitated but said OK. I overlooked his hesitation and trusted that he would wait until he got home from work. Within a few hours, he called me all panicky to say the OW wanted to talk to me to apologize and could she call me at home? I said "YEAHHHHHH....I thought....yeah have her call." She did, we chatted, she apologized profusely....same as my H. She thanked me for my graciousness and I dazzled her with my Christlike-instant-forgiveness character. (Makes me puke now!)

In the middle of our conversation, my H showed up and picked up the extension. He listened to our girl-chat and said "This is really weird." So I said "then get off the phone, ya dork". Then her H called so our conversation came to an abrupt halt. My husband gave me her email address so I sent a brief message a few days later to say I was sorry our conversation may have been cut off prematurely by our Hs but that I was willing to email if our MC said it was OK. (I was actually fearful that her guilt and remorse might lead to her suicide if she didn't finish all she wanted to apologize for.) Am I Queen Stupid or what?

For the next week, my H was the perfect gentleman and I plan A'd without having a clue what it was (We didn't find MB until the fall).

We talked, prayed, laughed, shared soul-searching insights like we never had before. I was so sure his pain in having to confess to me was an appropriate deterrent for any future betrayal.

The dav after our first MC session (a week after D-day #1), I was on our home computer while he was at work. Just as I deleted what I thought was a piece of yahoo spam, I noticed his initials.....and hers......and I physically felt sick. I still had her email address, so I fired off a warning to her since I just knew she was now my friend and would tell me. She never wrote back, but I couldn't be sure if she even got my emails so I didn't panic until the next day and sent a scathing email to the alleged new account.

In the meantime, my H continued his doting behavior as if nothing was wrong, changed or different. He had been involved with OW for about 10 weeks. I thought he could stop it immediately so why would I suspect anything otherwise? Long story short, he had set up a new account, she had secretly emailed him back and asked him how she could deter me, he had received my blasting email, told her I knew, called me in a panic and I left work to come home again to listen to her blathering apologies....which I stupidly accepted again.

And he did it again a week later but I did not find out for a whole month.

Not only did I forgive too quickly and blindly trust my H, I also hid my pain and tried to compete with his memories of OW by showering him with all the wonderful things he said she represented in his life.....ENs actually without knowing the term for them.

I said all that to say this: Your H was involved for 2 years and acted as if nothing was wrong between you and him.

Has he seen your pain?

After D-day #1, I left in my car to cry and wail so he would not see me. I was trying to compete with OW....not only did it not stop his reconnection, but he did not see enough of my pain to help dissipate his fog.

Withdrawal takes longer than a few weeks, I think....it took my H 4 months and 2 more reconnections and my suicide attempt to send the NC email (which I found out later she thought I had written!)...hopefully someone else will give us both some insight on withdrawal and how long one should figure it will last after a 2 year involvement.

If he is still connected, "just to make sure she's OK" (puke again), he could be using a Trac phone you can buy at any store (Walmart, Target, Radio Shack etc.). They are a pre-pay phone that requires no ID, credit check or billing. You just buy one ($10-$20) and can initialize it from any land line (or PC at the library). You can add minutes with credit cards, not sure if you can with cash, maybe not. But if he has one in his truck, you would never know. And he sounds like a master cover-up artist if he could carry on for 2 years without you suspecting anything.

Be vigilent, I.S. even though it feels horrible. If you do have to prepare for D day #2, don't delay. We'll all help you through it.

Sorry so long but I hope this helps.

Ace

Ace-

I tried to send you a private message, but it wouldn't let me click on the icon. Email me at mom2campbell@aol.com and I'll elaborate on more details about my situation and answer questions from your last post...

Thanks,

Ace

It's been 4 weeks since I registered and started asking for help rebuilding our trust. Although I took two weeks off from posting myself, the 3 threads (Integrity of BS, Don't Get Stuck, Mr/Mrs LG) contributed a major missing link to helping us rebuild my trust.

On this Valentines Day, the first one I feel like I truly am 'in love with my husband', I want to thank everyone on MB for your time and efforts in creating my new upbeat attitude towards our marriage. For once, I believe we will make it.

As Mr. Wondering suggested I will update our progress but I posted it on the Recovery Board. I know we'll have ups and downs, but it's great to know we have a place to get help (when needed) or to just vent.

My sitch includes some very unique components and I may share on the Recovery Board occasionally. My new signature line tells a big part of the story. If what God has done with our flailing marriage has inspired at least one person to keep hoping, that's my wish.

Ace

Ace:

Speaking of marriage renewal after an affair can cause alot of hurt around here.

Because it does happen, it sounds that way with you and also with my marriage.

However, I still believe that if you and your H and me and my BS could have gotten here without the A it would have been alot better.

Because the hurt of betrayal for the BS will always be there.

Your in a honeymoon right now, and you really need to grasp as much of that as you can, to be ready for some of the letdown that will come off of this high. But with your H on board, it makes it alot easier.

I'm glad your here. Things will be alot better because of it. Both for those of us here, and for you.

Thanks for caring enough to say what others may think, LG. The last thing I want to do it flaunt our joy at the expense of others.

Your "Honeymoon High to Letdown Low" warning is very helpful. I think it comes down to choices and perceptions and my choices to be upbeat create a perception of relief more often than not. I know this could be good or bad.

But our 'honeymoon' is contiuously tempered by triggers, which I know is going to be happening for a long time. For the last week (since we exposed to OWH) our 'highs' seem even more euphoric because my H's total support and encouragement during the exposure process has helped rebuild my trust to a level that's a little scary. (I will never totally let my guard down, but it's nice to be able to relax a tad.)

Can anyone refer me to resources dealing with radical honesty in recovery and the triggers RH creates? Sometimes, I wish I did not want to know what I now know so the 'image' would not be a trigger.

Because of your heads up, LG, I will move this to the Recovery forum unless someone has any other suggestions.

Thanks,
Ace

I'm all confused. Haven't read the thread, and sadly don't have the time to now. Ace, got your note and will be replying when I've had time to think it through.

Talk of renewing vows is offlimits in the GQII forum? Am I misinterpreting what I did read? Gotta say I can't get on board with that idea.

I *think* that LG's post was just a warning to Ace to take things slow...This soon into recovery, many of us have a tendency to be living on an adrenaline rush from the shock and devastation of it all...I think the "admonishment" was merely a "heads up" that recovery is still VERY hard and that she shouldn't let it knock the wind out of her sails when some of the tougher stuff comes along later on down the line...Slow and Steady wins the race...

I could be wrong about LG's intent...If I am, LG come in and let me know, k?

Mrs. W

Mrs. W,

I gotta say, "ain't that the truth!"

It is a rollercoaster ride after all. I have the Chili Peppers on my ipod, and every time I listen to "Love Rollercoaster" it's what I think of.

M4L/10Swords...

I just have to tell you that your posts (not just this one above where you were agreeing with me-lol) have really become wonderful for me to read...I really apreciate you...Quite some time ago, we had a bit of a run in on the recovery board...I wanted to tell you that I am sorry for that...I don't remember what it was about, or even what I said, but if it was hurtful to you, I really hope that you can forgive me...You are a valuable asset around here...I'm glad to know you and glad that you are here-we'll you know what I mean-I really wish none of us had to be here! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. W <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Mates and Mrs. W.

I am so honored that my thread posts can provide a place of peacemaking. Thanks to both of you. I appreciate your input and the fact that you care. I will lean on your experience as we embark on this transition in our recovery.

My H and I were talking this morning....and I mentioned that I wondered (as always I am wondering about something) what it will be like when our "honeymoon high" lets down.

He replied, "why does it have to let down?" And I said "because that is reality, you have ups and downs in life".

He actually said, "that may be true, but we never need to come off our honeymoon.....you'll see."

When I asked him what he meant by 'you'll see' he reminded me that he loves to be challenged to do things never before done. So....we'll see!

Mrs. W, you mentioned on my recovery thread about letting you know when I'm going to be on the radio with Dr. H. Did you misunderstand my post (I was on 1/31) or do you think I should call again?

And Mates...check out the Romantic Experiences forum....you inspired me, thanks!

Ace

LG Clarifies:

ACE:

You WH got on board quickly after Dday. That is a tremendous help to facilitating the renewal of your M.

Mrs W. added insights that I could have explained as well.

And I reread this:



And wonder if I missed something????

Because darned if I can really figure out that sentence, now. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> The rest of the post makes some sense. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

I believe I was trying to point out, that sometimes you can get some 2x4's if you talk about how your Marriage is better now, than it was before the A.

I am not saying that very well, but I didn't the first time, and not now.

Sometimes, I just should close down the keyboard. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Ace:

Stick around, your story can help many others.

I didn't get to the discussion boards until 1 year after DDay. My journey isn't over, and I certainly can not detail it for others like you can now.

Good fortune!

LG

Thanks for your clarification, LG. I appreciate your honest "I have no clue" explanation. I think I know what happened and it's not your fault.

When I first posted about our exposure to OWH and subsequent renewal transition, I included a statement similar to the "Scott & Bonnie - Redbook article" comment that they were thankful for the affair as it brought them closer together.

When I read your one and only reply, and moved most of the post as noted over to the Recovery forum, I edited that comment, but I see it was not marked as 'edited'. Sorry, my bad. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Actually, this was all a test just to see if you would respond......just kiddin' LOL

Seriously, I want to be sensitive to those who are currently undergoing prolonged intense pain like my H and I are beginning to overcome. At the same time, I want to provide inspiration to those seeking it, to encourage them to continue (or begin) seeking God and allowing His guidance to be a part of their healing process.

I have mentioned that I do believe that God did NOT want the A to happen and it was never a part of His plan. But that does not stop us from now using the results of the A to become stronger in our marriage and utilizing this experience to help others overcome their challenges, too.

And LG....don't shut down your keyboard! Your keyboard and your 'cut to the chase' style has impacted us in a major marriage-building way. Thanks.


Ace

I'm just wondering if the discussion raised by Mates, Mrs. W. & LG regarding "marriage renewal" talk on the GQII forum might be an unspoken issue that may be a valid topic to kick around.

In the midst of my trauma, I never ventured to any forum except GQII. In fact, I only 'found' the Recovery board when MarriedForever posted her "Just for Fun" questions and it piqued my interest on the "Active Topics" listing.

LG mentioned that my H seems to have made a rapid change based on the fact that it's only been a month since I registered and started asking for help rebuilding my trust. (And I actually took 2 weeks off from posting when my thread took on a life of its own.)

When I initially shared my sitch (1/14/07), I asked if time and was the only solution to rebuilding trust. I got some great help with other 'exercises' to speed up the time and lessen my pain in the meantime.

But when I inadvertantly stirred up the "Expose or Not" hornets nest by trying to 'help' someone else, I discovered that the missing link to rebuilding my trust was delayed exposure to the OPS. (As a side note to lurkers or posters only seeking help....start spouting what you think you know to help others and you'll receive even more insight with the ensuing thread jacks you cause. I say that in jest, sort of... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> but it actually worked for us!)

With that "Exposure to OPS" chapter closed (and my trust rebuilding rapidly), our marriage has spun upwardly to new heights I only dreamed about for 32 years. As mentioned before, it was not the exposure that helped as much as my husbands total support, encouragement and cooperation as I agonized over the exposure process.

It may seem like a short time, but our marriage had been detaching for 32 years. For the first 30, I tried everything....counseling, books, tapes, videos, marriage seminars, conferences, retreats, advances.....et al. In fact, it was while we were attending a marriage seminar that we got into a fight and I decided that if we were ever going to another 'marriage building' event, it would only be if it was my husband's idea. I virtually gave up.

Obviously, we detached even more over the next two years which, coupled with his job loss and mid life crisis led to his EA in April 06. 10 weeks later - Dday #1 -he called our MC to make the first appointment (and weekly appts.) during which he lied to me and our MC for the next several weeks. That's why my trust was shattered and I began visualizing myself selling the house, paying off debts and starting over....alone.......at 52.

Last fall I found MB (SAA, HNHN, LB, FILSIL - and after the holidays - web site, discussion forum, radio show) and our marriage now appears to be an MB success story. I say that with guarded optimism, knowing we will have ups and downs, even though my H claims we will live in our 'honeymoon' forever and he's embarked on a life-long mission to prove that to me.....we'll see.

LG's comments made me realize that our sitch is unique. I had already started a thread in the Romantic Experiences forum that, to my surprise, had 21 views and one comment in only 1 day. (That forum had not had a new post in over 2 months.)

To be sensitive to those who might be hurt or offended, I feel comfortable sharing our joys in the Romantic Experiences corner, accessible, but not blatantly 'flaunting' in the face of someone entrenched in the pain my H and I are beginning to overcome.

But maybe hearing a developing success story might inspire someone whose only focus is on the GQII forum and who might miss a potential ray of hope otherwise.

I shared all that to ask this:

Could "marriage renewal" talk help or hurt, inspire or offend if it is posted on the GQII forum?

One person I asked said it would inspire her, "but it would depend on her mood at the time. People can choose to read what they want to." Does placing it on the GQII forum enhance that choice?

What do you think?

Ace

Ace, I know you are fairly new in the recovery process, but you should feel free to post your trials, tribulations, successes and failures here just like everybody else. If you check out the other threads, you find many others like yourself who are new in the recovery process. You can be a great help to one another.

Recovery is a long, hard process that can take anywhere from 18 to 24 months. So, brace yourself for the long haul and continue to come here for support. Good luck.

I encourage you to post your recovery here. There have been so many folks that I've posted to who leave MB. That leaves a lot of unrecovered people posting here. It is very important for the rest of us to see that it DOES happen.

Thanks, Mel and Believer,

I have always been an upbeat person, but this is not about me....I truly want to help others as much as you all (or "y'all" - right Mel!) have helped me. I never planned to stop posting on GQII, but I want to be sensitive, too.

You're right....this is new and in my naivete I just wanted to understand protocol, especially when LG made the comment he now can't remember why he made it....but, hey, he's a CPA and it's tax season so we can cut him some slack. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Ace

Bump for "Onethousandwords"

Bump for Opheliagrimm

Bump for 22Devastated

WOW!

I was looking for Top Rope's story in his history log and discovered that he had posted on this thread. (It was one of my first.)

Mark bumped one of his old threads so I think I will, too. It does show how far my FWH and I have come and part of the journey that got us here.

Another thing I realized in re-reading this early thread was that I didn't remember WHO posted to me, but I do recall WHAT was said. (And I did say "thank you ALL" for the help that was given!)

Also, it was fun to see Inner Strength's posts and how this thread helped her. We've been in touch by email occasionally and she and her FWH are doing really well. She especially wanted me to greet Mark, so if you're reading this, "Hi Mark, from Inner Strength".

And Mark, thanks for bumping your "Small Victories" thread. Someone posted that those victories are larger (in the big picture) than you realize at the time. I'm bumping this thread as further evidence that THAT is true.

Thanks,
Ace

P.S. Top Rope, thanks for posting your Crybabies thread (that I thought was a healthy diversion the first day...haven't seen how it's evolved lately) and also thanks for chiming in on the Affairs $uck thread so that I looked for your story. Amazing....... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Bumping up for Top Rope!

Semper Fi,

RIF