Hi,

Earlier last month, I caught my H at a bar (that we both visit) with another woman. They were holding hands and he was drunk. My H has a history of alcohol problems. He also has not been working full time for over 4 years, had to sell his truck, I'm the breadwinner, we're living in his mom's basement with very little privacy, we're in the process of physically building our own house and we're low on money. Basically, we've both been really stressed the last 4 years.

When I caught him with the OW, I confronted him. He wouldn't talk with me because he was drinking. He simply told me that he didn't love me like he used to. He also said, "I'm no good." (referring to him). And, "You deserve better than me.". When I asked who the woman was, he wouldn't tell me. He only said that he met her at the bar.

We didn't talk for a few days. When I saw him again, he didn't talk about it...he made an excuse to come back to "talk" another time. 3 weeks went by and in that 3 weeks, I saw him once. He came to the house, didn't look good, had beer cans in the trunk, would hardly look at me, etc. So, I started talking to him. I didn't get emotional, I simply said that I was concerned, didn't know what happened and that no matter what,...he was my unconditional friend. He didn't say anything. Back to where I was... 3 weeks went by from when I caught him with the OW. He left me a typed note. I got home from work and found it. It said that he caught pneumonia and was in the hospital for 4 days and he apologized that it took this long to get this to me. He then proceeded to write that he wanted this to be over and he did not love me anymore. He said that alcohol was not the reason. It happened, he didn't mean for it to happen and I didn't do anything to make it happen. However, he said that he knows alcohol is destructive to himself and those around him and he won't stop. He also said this was the worst thing that he's ever done and that he doesn't deserve my forgiveness, but I deserve release.

We've talked since this "note". I'm the one who made the first move. I called and told him I wanted to review our finances. When I saw him, he was chain-smoking (which he never did before...he has never even smoked before) and he was drinking beer in the car. Other than that, he actually made good eye contact with me and was very cordial. He was also driving this OW's brand new truck.

I found out last week that he is, in fact, staying with this OW. He never said one word to me in the typed note OR our conversation that he was with someone else. He also hasn't mentioned divorce, although he moved most of his tools and clothes out of the house.

To give you a little background, my husband and I have been together for 15 years on and off. We dated our last year in highschool, then went our separate ways in college but remained close friends. And for the past 8 years, we've been living together in a comitted, healthy, solid relationship. We do everything together and always have fun. 4 years ago we started building our house together (literally the two of us are building it) and 2 1/2 years ago, we decided to get officially married.

I honestly don't know what happened and I feel I need to know in order to move on emotionally. This, as you probably well know, was a HUGE blow. Has this sort of situation happened to anyone else? And if so, any advice or insight?

Thank you for listening. CAZ3

Me 31, H 30

Sounds like he got depressed over your situation and all of the stress over building the house and sought an outlet. Unfortunately, it wasn't a very good choice. Maybe, too, he feels emasculated since you are the main breadwinner.

history of alcohol problems=alcoholism?

It is harder to fix things when one spouse has an addiction. Dr. Harley has been quoted here as saying that MB principles won't work with an addict until the addict separates him/herself from the addiction.

Now he's probably addicted to the OW, too.

I wouldn't know what to advise you to do as your next step. I'm sure a vet will come in and post to you soon, though. It's a little slow around here at night, so be patient.

I'm sorry that you are going through this nastiness. It really sucks that you had to catch the two of them together like that. And it sucks the way he just up and moved out, too. What about the pneumonia? When I read that my very first thought was that it was a load of bs. But then, I'm a cynic now and I don't trust anyone so I could be wrong.

Take care,

Charlotte

Thank you Charlotte. Yes, I think he is an alcoholic. His father is, his uncle is and his sister is. About 8 years ago, he got a DUAI. About 3 years ago, he stopped drinking for a full year, but didn't feel good the entire time.

I received his health insurance statements (since they're in my name) and he did, in fact, stay in the hospital for 3-4 days for pnuemonia. Apparently, he was staying overnight at our "unfinished house" (it is shealthed, has a roof, windows, door, etc., but doesn't have plumbing, electric or heat yet) and caught it. The sucky thing is that he hasn't bothered to ask how I'm doing at all. He talks about himself, but hasn't once asked me how I'm doing. It's so unlike him. It almost feels like he wants people to feel sorry for him. I know he's not staying there anymore. I think the OW is letting him stay where she lives.

Hi CAZ,



Yeah, playing the victim. Figures. WSs do this a LOT. Mine did it to the hilt. Still is. He even wrote about it in his blog--I have no idea if he still does or not, I haven't visited there since December or so, (or was it January?) Anyway, my 24-year-old DIL was SO disgusted about it. Who can blame her? My Mom said my Dad used to do this too, whine around their friends and try to make her look bad.



I don't doubt it for a minute.

So, do you still want to save your marriage? I'm not sure if you are supposed to do a short Plan A first if you are, or if you should go to B. Hopefully some vets will pop in soon.

Hang in there!!

Charlotte

Charlotte,



Are you divorced?



Yes, I genuinely want to save our marriage. However, I wouldn't let him simply come back (if that is something he will do???). I think we need to sort out a lot of feelings and bring back the trust...not to mention get his stuff together (job, etc.). Unfortunately, I didn't just lose my husband - my best friend is also gone. I don't know what to do either....plan A, plan B. I'll think about it and maybe others will respond like you did. BTW - thank you.

No, but we are still en route. I filed last year on November 1st. We thought we might have a settlement but WS-Gray does not want to pay spousal support to help out until I get my degree. He lives with his OP-Slag. OWH hired my attorney-Shiny, and filed for divorce in June. He checked in the other night and he is pretty sure he wants to go ahead and get it done asap. (Frankly, he still sounds a little uncertain to me.)



Yeah, I hear you. That was THE hardest part for me.

Charlotte

Charlotte -



How long have you been married? And, do you have similar marital problems to mine?



Forgive me, as I only know some of the acronyms. Can you explain OP and OWH?

Do you want a divorce? Do you still love him?

CAZ

Do you want to try and save your marriage? I think the first responder hit it on the head. Plan A with letting him know there IS a way back would be a start, but it's hard to Plan A with no contact. Have you read the materials/books on this site? He doesn't sound like a real catch, but I know that is relative, he COULD be, if he decided to get his act together, and I know you miss your best friend...that's the hard part for all of us...it's THEM we used to turn to when things came along, and now they're the ones causing it and we don't have them to turn to! Kind of a catch 22...
I really feel for you, but he needs to talk with you, if nothing else, to sort out the details like what to do about the house. Can the house be put on hold for a while?

Thank you for your response to my thread.



Yes, I do want to save it....try to save it. I'm not sure if he knows that I want to work it out. He's known me for half of my life, so I could assume he does. But I know I shoudn't assume.



I've read a lot on this site, but there is so much to read and I've only just begun.



Wow, that is the very first time I have ever heard that! He isn't a real catch after what he's done. You are right. However, before this happened, he spent the last several years (our entire relationship) treating me with such respect, compassion, love. He always supported me and protected me, shared everything with me, did so many things to make me ...us happy. The person he is now is someone I've never met before.....he is like the exact opposite of my husband. He is a stranger.



We've been building this house for the past 4 years. We started with clearing the land for the house, garage and driveway. Then we slowly started building. The next step include plumbing, electric, etc. I don't know if I mentioned this in my original post, but 2 1/2 weeks ago, I called him to discuss finances and we met at a neutral spot. At the end of the cordial conversation, he askd me, "So, what are your thoughts on the house?" I didn't say anything and he said, "that can be rhetorical, the house isn't going anywhere." I then asked him what his thoughts were on the house and he also didn't say anything.

This house has been such a labor of love that I can't imagine either of us giving it up. This is very hard for me.

Thanks again for responding.

Don't feel bad, my husband hasn't been a real catch this year either. I'm hoping I can find the man that I married, or thought I did...I don't know where he went or what happened to him

That's what's sad, after something like this, it's like it rips our hopes and dreams apart. In our case it was a trucking business we'd gone into with all the hopes and plans for the future, I financed it and then he put everything in his name, borrowed against it, ditched everything and had an affair. I think he may have felt like a failure and that may have come into play, he made some bad mistakes that caused the loss of the business, but I was the one here by his side all the way and I'm the one that got dissed, it's hard to understand. You, too, have been there with your husband through it all, the loving, patient, forbearing wife, and what do you get? The same as the rest of us here. I hope we find our old husbands back!

It's difficult to think about how someone who loved, protected, cherished and supported you could do something that leaves you wondering if they ever loved you at all.

I just wish that I could understand why he did what he did. It's only been less than 2 months since I caught my WH with someone else,...but already it is very difficult for me to trust what anyone else says or does for me. Unfortunately, my mother hasn't been supportive. She, too, has known my WH for many years and they get along well. He's always been part of the family even before we were married. But, my mother told my sister that she doesn't want to get involved. I can understand that, but this is the single hardest thing I've ever had to experience and to know that my own mother doesn't want to at least ask my WH what happened and tell him how much he hurt me is shocking to me. It makes me angry, but most of all, it makes me sad. Extremely sad that I feel like I'm not as close to my mother anymore. We've always been very close.

I'm going to my therapist today (marriage counselor)...I started this about 2 weeks after I was abandoned by my WH. I've also been to one Al-Anon meeting. I don't know if I should wait this out to see if my WH and the OW get sick of eachother OR talk with my WH and let him know I want to work things out. It's difficult because his note in late August said that he wanted this to be over and he didn't love me anymore. I'm taking it one day at a time...so I'll see what today brings.

Hi CAZ,



We have been married for nearly 15 1/2 years now--November 22 will make it 15 1/2.

Yes. The way you described how your husband USED to be? Same with mine. Then he started his affair and split into two different personalities: Jonesy and Mr. Gray. Eventually, the dark side became more prominent and rarely did Jonesy make an appearance. Right now it looks like Mr. Gray has complete control. Will Jonesy ever resurface? Hard to tell. After reading about everyone's situations on here I think that sometimes they DON'T come back. But who knows what will happen after he and Slag break up?



OP is "other person" and OWH is "other woman's husband."

I think that divorce is inevitable at this point. What would I do if he showed up on my doorstep wanting to reconcile? Well, if he made amends for his evil alien ways I might consider taking in a movie with him as a friend.

I care about what happens to him as a human, I don't harbor any ill-will towards him or even Slag--even though her behavior at OWH's temp hearing was quite disgusting.

I will be A-OK with Jonesy or without Mr. Gray. It helps because once I went into B...and I was still hearing about his insidious behavior from my DIL, she was really p.o.'ed that he wasn't "being a man" and owning his sh*t...I decided to purge him from my soul and that is essentially what I did. I took the steps to REALLY start moving on without him in life or even the expectation of him coming back.

I have noticed that some here don't really move on, they kinda get stuck waiting for the affair to end. Well, initially that was what I wanted but now I really don't care if it ends or not. I'm sure it will but it's not really even on my radar at this point. I took Plan B very literally. Really took it to heart. I thought that's what we were supposed to do. Because is IS for us BSs, not WSs. Any B effects on them are just fringe benefits...or if I may...just "icing on the cake."

Charlotte

That's a good, strong attitude to take. I'm trying my best to move on, but honestly still have the expectation that he would want to reconcile. I know I can live my life without him and do it well, But I WANT him in my life. Obviously, not the person he is now, but the man I knew before this happened. He hit a very low point about 8 years ago and it really made him think about what he was doing and why. I keep thinking that he is going thru the same low point. Everyone around me tells me I'm doing a good job with how I've reacted and how I'm "keeping on" with my life. But I miss him,...not just any man....I miss him.

We still haven't talked about us though, so I don't know exactly what to think. I only heard thru the grapevine that he was seeing this OW. And, these are all people who regularly frequent the bar....every day. Don't get me wrong, I love a beer after work and like to have a few on the weekends, ...so I'm not saying that's a bad thing. However, my WH has a problem with alcohol and I'm just upset because he is surrounding himself with people that probably aren't helping...just hindering.

Charlotte - how long has it been since you and your WH started having problems?

CAZ

You guys are doing well for the circumstances, this is an incredibly hard thing to go through. My H and I are still together (if you can say that although we still haven't lived together...his job is 3 1/2 hours away so he comes home on weekends), but last night my GF caught me saying love (for him) in past tense. I told her, what can you expect? I don't even know who he is anymore! I don't know what will happen but I do know I will be okay. I am okay with whatever happens ultimately, he may break my heart again, but only to a certain point...if that happens, I'll move on. It's a stance I have to take for sanity and survival. It'll be a long cold day in H*LL before I can trust again like I did.

I met with my counselor/therapist today and he made an interesting point. From everything that I've told him about my WH and everything I've showed him (i.e. things my WH has written me), my therapist thinks that my WH may feel unworthy of my love, thinks that I'm a better person, etc. It sounds like it could very well be true. My WH actually said on a couple recent occasions that I deserve better than him, he's no good, blah, blah. And during our long relationship, throughout the years, my WH has written things (i.e. in cards and stuff) like, "with all of my shortcomings, you still remain, we remain. I will spend the rest of my life making it up to you because you are the best part of my life."

My therapist says that relationships are all about balance. I confided in my therapist that I had an affair about 5 years ago. My H and I weren't married yet, but we had been in a very long-term, commited relationship. It was probably one of the worst things I've ever done. It wasn't long and I realized what an idiot I was being and ended it. I never told my H. My therapist thinks that I've got nothing to lose if I tell my WH about it. It may make him realize that I, too, have f*&ked up.

Any thoughts? Thanks for listening.

CAZ

The last time my WH and I spoke was over 2 wks ago. It was strickly about finances. He said he'd be providing me with $ to pay the bills (property + school taxes, loan, insurances, etc.) and I've only seen $100 since then. He left his paycheck from his PT gig at the house.

NEW NEWS: This morning my WH called the house and spoke with his sister (if you recall from my original post, we were living with his mother while building our house and his sister lives here as well) and was going to come by to fix something for his mom. Anyway, he got here and I was ready to leave anyway...to go see one of my girlfriends. So, I walk outside where my WH and his sister (who I am close with) are standing + talking. I walk right past him to my Jeep and get in it and start it. I look up to see that his sister went back into the house and he's just standing there with his head down. I get out of the car and walk toward him. I said, "so, when are we going to "talk"?" He said, "yeah, I was going to call you." He proceeds to tell me that he didn't get the job he applied for because his blood pressure was way too high. He's only 30 years old, but he alcohol problems and just started chain smoking, which I'm sure does not help. He didn't bother to ask how I was. We talk for about 15 minutes and he tells me that he is having our property (with the unfinished house on it) accessed by two separate parties. He said, "I'd like the house." I didn't say a word. I couldn't....I was screaming inside. He said that he would be willing to pay me what it is worth. He said, "that way, you can pay off the bills and have a nice chunk of change." WHAT? Like I said before, that house has been a labor of love for the past 4 years....I don't want to give it up. I want it. I want it with him! Apparently, this OW has money and since he has NONE, I'm guessing she'll be the one giving it to him. I heard the OW has a kid and she was looking for a house in this area - conveniently the same area as the house we're building.

I want to know why hasn't he asked me for a divorce, why hasn't he talked about what happened to our marriage, .....what is going on????

I called him an hour and a half after this morning's "chat" and left a voicemail that I wanted to discuss some serious issues and that it needs to happen this week.

PLEASE provide any advice or insight. I think this week is going to be huge and I need all the help I can get. Thanks for listening.

I wouldn't agree to anything without talking to a lawyer first. Don't give up the house if you want it...see what your rights are before doing anything.

Yes, thanks. I have talked with a lawyer and provided him with my "situation". I'm waiting to hear back from him on the latest news (i.e. that my WH would like the house, etc.). I put every dollar I've made in the last few years into this house/property and I'm not going to give it up. Especially, when I don't even know what is really going on and what happened to our marriage. I left a vmail for my WH on Sunday and asked him to call me back so we can discuss some serious issues and it should happen this week. He never called back. I'll keep you posted.

Oh, I went to the property/house last night and there were 12 empty beer cans laying all over the front yard. That really bothered me...how disrespectful!

Not sure what my next step should be???

After WH stopped by the house on Sunday (and said he'd like the house), I called that same afternoon and left him a vmail message. Told him I had some serious questions, I'd like to talk and it needs to happen this week. This is because we STILL haven't talked about US and what happened since I caught him holding hands with OW in August. He just told me he didn't love me anymore + wanted this to be over, then left (physically + emotionally).

On Monday, my brother in-law bought me a lock for my (and my WH's) car trailor that's parked on our property. I went to our property and put the lock on the trailor, then called WH to let him know because there was car on it and it looks like he's using it. I have not heard back since.

I'm currently living with my WH's mother - have been for past 4 years while we've been building. I'll be moving out shortly. However, I know his family really wants our marriage to survive.

If WH won't talk, what should I do? He's still on my health insurance, auto insurance, etc. On Sunday he told me he was taking his car off the road and informing our auto insurance agent...hasn't done that yet.

Any words of encouragment or advice? I'd appreciate it. I want my marriage to work and I'll do anything to make it happen!

I know in our state we can't stop paying medical insurance for our spouse until the divorce is over and then they have to be offered to COBRA, so don't cancel that.
He's taking the car off the road? Does that mean he won't have insurance? Cuz that can affect his rates later on if he is no longer a rated driver. Make sure he doesn't cancel insurance and continue driving, particularly if you are listed on the vehicle, that could hurt you.
There isn't a whole lot you can do if he refuses to see or talk with you, but I would think you would want things settled some way or another (business affairs) so you might want to talk with a lawyer about your options...not to get divorced, but to be protected legally. Yes, it'd probably be a good idea to have your own place. I am so sorry you are going through all of this. It sounds like he could really benefit from IC.

When you say, "IC", do you mean individual counseling?

I talked with my HR person here at work and she informed me that I can remove my WH from my health insurance at anytime. However, he'll have 62 days to get other health insurance or else any pre-existing conditions won't be covered for 11 months. So, I'm going to see what my lawyer says about this.

He SAID he was going to take the car off the road OR create his own auto insurance policy - he's been saying that for almost a month.

He left me a note and his $60 paycheck from his PT gig. He left it at the house so when I got home from work, I got it. The note said, "The tools are in the garage. Call me when you want to talk.". He brought the tools back because he said I could have them and sell them if I wanted. When we were building the house, we (I) bought them. Later that day, he sent me a text message that said, "You get text messages on your phone, right? That might be easier...".

My instincts tell me to call him and tell him that we've known eachother for 15 years and I want to talk with him live. I need to know what happened to our marriage.

Did you go thru anything similar?

Easier for whom? Him? I'd encourage him to see/talk with you while you plan A, clear up until you do a PBL and Plan B.

I don't think my situation is like anyone else's. My H lives 3 1/2 hours away from me...he was living there before we married and moved to my home when we married...then immediately moved back when his job didn't work out because he had another job offer back there. He's been there ever since. For a while I was going to see him because I was out of work and had more time, then we were taking turns, then he was coming to see me because I have the animals to take care of and he said he liked coming here. Well then he started making excuses not to come, not taking my calls at night, not calling me back, etc, the only time he'd talk on the phone is on the way to work. One day I drove up there and guess what I found...he had a girl living with him. When I'd visit him, he'd pack her up and have her stay elsewhere, can you believe it! A couple of years ago he could have gotten a job here, not it's not so easy, jobs are really tight and we have more expenses now. He pays his, I pay mine...but he'd gone into business and lost a lot of money, then I remortgaged my house (that I had before we married) to pay off his debts so he could take a lower paying job and move here. Instead he was having an A and ran himself into debt again. Now I'm in a precarious position financially, but I won't sign for anything again.
Things were going pretty good for us until about 2 1/2 weeks ago, then he became very angry to me, again, not calling except to get mad, and making excuses not to see me. My birthday was this week, he did nothing for me except call and get mad at me. I have given all this over to God, I don't know what else to do...I can't make him love me, can't even make him be nice to me, but I can set boundaries, what I will and won't take. I have basically turned him over to God. Suddenly he is being nicer. I don't gauge anything by this as I know WS run hot/cold and it has nothing to do with us, it's something they're going through. I know I can't take a lifetime of this, but right now my attitude is basically "wait and see" and a day at a time. I don't have a lot of hope but I haven't given up either. I am trying to plan A and not LB.

I really feel for you, you have put so much into your H and your M and to have him acting like this is a real slap in the face...but then so have I, and it is! I really wish you the best...maybe someone more experienced will come on here with some advice for you.

How are the interactions that you do have, going? Are you able to Plan A? Have you figured out his emotional needs, why he might have started all this? Have you figured out how you can help meet those needs? Good luck, keep posting!

Caz.

I am sorry to see you here and in this sitch. Please hang in there, the weekends get slow so don't be discouraged.

It sounds like your WH has low self esteem issues. Most likely the OW admired him and made him feel good about himself.

Not saying you don't but I am sure that facing you means facing himself, not working, depending on you, drinking too much.

You can't save him from himself, only he can do this. You can only control your self.

Where are you going to live? What do you do for yourself?

Hang in there,

BA

Exactly. From day one, I've been saying that I want to talk live, not thru a note, not via phone,....live, direct conversation. I deserve at least that. I've been nothing but pleasant & accomodating since this whole thing happened. Not a doormat, just pleasant & accomodating.

I'm in the same frame of mind - "wait and see" and "one day at a time". I still have hope. It's only been 2 months since I saw him with the OW and he left the house. But, like you, I haven't given up!


My WH and I have had about a half dozen interactions since I caught him with OW. When we got together to discuss finances last month, he was totally cool + relaxed...we talked for 2 hrs and it actually felt good. But the most recent interaction he seemed more distant. Yes, I'm able to Plan A. However, it doesn't SEEM to be working because nothing has changed. I think he has a mix of most of the EN's listd on this website. The ones that come to mind first are affection, conversation, companionship, + admiration. I feel like I can't meet any of these when he doesn't talk or see me! I'm planning to call him today and tell him that I'll be at such + such a place, at such + such a time so we can talk, ...see you there. I'm not going to give him an option to put it off again. We'll see how that goes.

Happy belated birthday, Vows4Good. Thanks for your feedback.

Not sure. My father offered, my grandmother offered, etc. But, I keep thinking that I want to get my own little apartment for now....as I'm planning to finish the house and live in it. I love that property and I'm prepared to live there on my own if it comes down to that.

I'm doing good things for myself. I went to a convention in Florida a couple weeks ago for work and I spent a lot of free time with my colleagues. At first I wasn't going to go but decided that I should have fun and forget what's going on at the moment...I needed it.

Thanks for your response, BA! Does your "situation" have any of the same characteristics as mine?

I will say this since no one else had. Your husband is an alcoholic and these concepts here at MB do not work with addicts.

I think you need to find out why you stayed with this alcoholic all these years. And why you want this alcoholic back.

He does not work much either. How can you live with that?

Sometimes when a guy says, "I am not good enough for you" it is really TRUE!

Yeah, I mentioned that on page 1, Stella.

The more you talk about your WH, CZ, the more I am reminded of my WH-Gray. His addiction is prescription drugs, not alcohol, but it is an addiction, nonetheless.

Charlotte

I was with my H for all these years because I love him, we're best friends, he and I are very compatible, many of the same interests, and the list goes on. He is extremely intellectual and our conversations are always full of substance...like the rest of our relationship. This is the very first time that he has ever treated me this way in our entire relationship,...all these years. I've never wanted more in a partner. He has always treated me with respect, love, etc.... never once raised his voice at me, always listens, etc. But, in the last several months, his drinking has gotten bad and that is when this all started.

No, he doesn't work much. He does bring in money from side work and PT gig. He should have a FT job though. However, he does everything else - he cooks every meal, he shops, he fixes our cars, he picks me up from work, etc.

I deserve everything I want. Right now (and for the past several months) I deserve better than what he has provided, MUCH BETTER. I don't want THIS person....whoever he is now. BUT, I'm willing to take him back IF he gets his SH*% together.


Thanks for your response, Stellakat.

Hi Charlotte - he certainly does have an addiction to alcohol. I'm willing to be there for him as he works thru it (IF he decides that is what he will do). But, now I'm worried that he has another addition...this OW.

Thx, CAZ

I hear ya', CAZ.

It's awfully hard for folks to give up that crutch. My cousin finally did it for the FINAL time...alcohol...(she was a lifelong and had quit but her oldest son died and she fell off the proverbial wagon--just went through rehab again and so far so good!)

You are probably right about him being addicted to OW. I could clearly see it in WH-Gray and even told him so in a non-shouting manner before I found MB. (Or MB found me, LOL!)

Hang in there!

Charlotte

We FINALLY talked!

I left a vmail for my H last night to meet me @ the park this morning and he was there. I told him I was confused + wanted to understand what happened. He said he hadn't been happy/in love with me for about a year or so. In that time he felt like he was living someone else's life. He said it was not like a switch, like one day he woke up and felt different about his life. He said he has a problem, not happy with himself, doesn't know what he wants, but knows he wants to be alone ... that he should be alone b/c he doesn't want to bring anyone else into his messed up situation because he admits to have been lying and that it wasn't fair to me. I asked him, "how do I know that all of the years we've been together weren't a lie?" He said they weren't, it's just been the past several months (in the beginning of the talk it was a year or so). He said he certainly loved me all those years. I asked him if anything like this has ever happened to him before...the way he's feeling now. He said, "No, this is something brand new."

Told H that even though I've moved on with my life (i.e. working, hanging out w/ friends, new hobbies, etc.), I'm still here for him and will be here when he needs me. Told him I'm not giving up on him...that I accept who he is and love him more than anyone else. Told him that even though he clearly said he doesn't love me anyone, I'd like to go to a counselor, someone who can facilitate our converation b/c I need to understand the dynamics of this relationship and how it got to this point. I told him that I was glad that we're having this talk, but this was such a shock and utter blow to my life that I think a professional would be helpful. I said that maybe it would help him as well. He said that if he went, that wouldn't be the goal. He'd go to help me shed light on things and help what he's saying make sense, for me.

BTW - when I asked about him being with someone else, he answered, "yes and no". He said that he was/is in a relationship of some sort. Then he immediately said, "If you can call it that....I basically got served my walking papers just recently so I'll be back to couch surfing. I asked if he was intimate with this OW and he said no. I told him I was asking for health reasons too and he said I have nothing to worry about there because it didn't get to that point.

I know my H has a problem with alcohol/depression and I know the only person who can help him..is him. However, what do you guys think about our talk? He was willing to consider and it sounds like he will go to a counselor. Do you think there is a chance at helping US too? H hasn't said one word about divorce. I'm willing to be patient as he works thru his "internal demons".

Hi CAZ,

I think it's great that you guys talked. I don't want to rain on your parade but I had to let you know about these things that stood out in your post. There were a couple of others, but these were the major ones:


Could be construed as helping you...."letting you down easily," and alleviating his guilt. Making him feel better about his poor choices. (This is just one of the reasons I didn't want to go to MC with Gray. I knew it wouldn't do any good and that he wanted to go for just those reasons. Then when I found MB I read a lot about MC not doing any good for active waywards.)



I wouldn't count on that. He drinks. Drinking lowers inhibitions. I would bet the farm that they DID "do it," and you should get checked for STD's if you haven't already done so. (Please forgive me if you already have, I can't recall at the moment if you said you did or not.)

I think it all "sounds" good...but what is that saying again? Believe none of what you hear and half of what you see? Something like that. Watch his actions. Don't put a lot of stock in his words, though I know it's hard NOT to, because you want to so badly. (I know. I remember.)

Keep on keepin' on, Milady!!

Charlotte

Thanks Charlotte -


I thought about that. And, it certainly could be the reason. But, that won't stop me from wanting him to go w/me. I still don't understand what's going on. Yeah, we talked, but was it his alcohol problem, depression, etc.?



I know, words are nothing w/out actions behind them. But, I had to ask to see what he'd say.



You are absolutely right. I shouldn't believe anything he says now. I even told him that if he had been lying these past several months, how can I believe the past several years have been any different. He looked @ me and said that this behavior has only been going on for the past several months....he didn't feel this way before. I'm waiting for his words to take action on a lot of things including removing his name from my auto insurance policy, the appraisels on the house, etc. He has done some of what he said. For instance, he's given me two of his PT work paychecks like he said he would, he came to change the plug on my Jeep's oil filter like he said he would, And, he did meet me to talk.....(finally, after 2 months). I keep thinking that if he's tried even the least bit (which he has), there is a much better chance he'll do more.

He loved me so much...more than anything and treated me as such..and we were best friends to boot....for SO long. I can't understand where that love went??? I'm beginning to learn that alcoholics are selfish, self-centered and only have their own interest in mind. I keep thinking that if he wants to get help and feel better about himself and be happy one day,....that we can begin another life together.

Are you making progress with your H and your marriage, if I may ask? How long has it been since the above happened (i.e. he "ditched everything and had an affair")?

CAZ

I don't want to infiltrate her thread, but it's been over four months. He's had NC with OW but until he gets a job here and is home FT, it can only be so good.

Do you want your marriage to work out? Are you hopeful that you guys have a chance?

Ya know,... just when I think I'm doing okay...I'm not. I can't focus on anything, except for my marriage and how I can fix it. EVERYTHING reminds me of us.....I mean EVERYTHING! I honestly wept the other day driving home, which sadly is not unusual. I know my H said he'd definitely consider going w/ me to the counselor, and I'm glad. BUT, I can't understand how he couldn't love me anymore. 15 years is a long time (granted we weren't together in college, we remained good friends) and I can't see how that love could fade away over the course of several months. I want him to get out of this FOG. Seeing + talking with him felt so good on one hand, but on the other was extremely depressing because I was looking at an empty shell of my husband. I DON'T know what to do!!!!! All I know is that I am willing to work at saving our marriage and that is a priority. I'm NOT going to wave good bye to us.

I just need inspiration, encouragement, anything ... to know that someone else went thru this and it worked out...their marriage was saved! Anybody???? I know there are folks out there, I just want someone to tell ME.

If I didn't want my M to work out, I wouldn't still be here. Hopeful? Cautiously...I'm kind of in a Wait and See mode, while still working on it. One day at a time. It has looked well lately but I'm not very trusting at this point.

I'm not so sure he doesn't love you so much as he THINKS he doesn't. With time, your old husband should return. A MC should help him see that.

I almost didn't ask that obvious question. You're right, you wouldn't still be here if you didn't want to save it. What is your H doing or saying that provides hope to you?

I keep telling myself to take it one day @ a time and some days I do very well with that. Other days, ...not so much!

How long have you been together (not just married)?

Just when I think my hope is fading fast, someone says something like that....and I feel 100 times better. Thanks V4G!

Well, Thursday was the day that I made the MC appointment. If you recall, my H said he would consider going with me (because I said I needed this). When we said good-bye after our long awaited talk, he said, "Call and let me know when the appt is." So, naturally, I got my hopes up that he'd be there. I called and left my H a vmail on Tuesday to tell him when and where the appointment was. He didn't call back so I assumed he'd probably be there. He wasn't. When I think about the vmail I Ieft my H, I said, "the appt. is Thursday at 12 noon, but if you can't make it, there is always next week." Maybe I gave him an "out"? I didn't mean to though.

I know he probably only considered going b/c he feels guilty about what he did and that he abandoned me. But it was something...however small....it was something. He didn't call afterward and he hasn't stopped by the house. Not sure what to do. I made my next appointment for Friday, 10/24. I'm considering calling to tell him (and not providing an "out" this time).

Any advice? I'm really trying to do everything I can to save us, but I still don't know how he fell out of love with me.

Hi CAZ,

What is it about the 15 year thing? I started noticing a lot of "15 year" people after I started posting. It seems like that is ONE of the times this sort of thing becomes more common. Forget the 7-Year-Itch!

There's a 20-year mark that seems common, too. Like at 22 years or 25.

Or maybe I'm just nuts. :crosseyedcrazy: Yeah, that's it! But what the heck? It's fun!

I get where you're coming from on the love thing. I figured that was it for us when I found out. What could I do? Who was I to stand in the way of "true love?"

I felt guilty even using our joint checking account, as if I didn't have a right to it anymore. Isn't that stupid? And that was when I was using it to buy FOOD for Pete's sake!!

Thank God for MB, that's all I know. Things got a lot better when everyone here jumped in to help a fool like me. LOL!!

Hang in there!

Charlotte

Hi Charlotte -


I know,...maybe people just stop trying because it has worked so well for so long. In my case, we both recently turned 30 (I'll be 32 this December and he'll be 31 next Spring). I think that maybe REAL life hit him and he realized he doesn't have a FT job, doesn't have a house yet, in debt and pretty much living off his wife and living in his mom's basement until our house is finished. Now, he can't act like a teenager or 20 something.....he is a full fledged adult who can't fall back on his youth. Maybe everything hit him so hard and he just couldn't deal with it. That, coupled with me being depressed that our house isn't done yet, thinking about leaving my job, etc.


I feel the same way. Even when I go to the house we're building, I feel almost like an intruder. It really pisses me off that I feel that way, especially seeing as how I was the one paying for most things, working on it every weekend, etc.


I sure hope I continue to get help here. So far it has been certainly reassuring. I need to hear that other couples have worked thru this, to hear that other couples found happiness again after something so terrible.

CAZ

It has been almost 1 week since my WH was supposed to meet me at the MC. He never showed, never called. This REALLY bummed me out. I had to leave work early the next day because I honestly couldn't focus on anything else. I made another appt. and left my WH a vmail to let him know the time and place (this Friday).

I drove to our property (w/ the unfinished house) earlier this week and noticed MORE empty beer bottles. I found about about 12 or 13 empties a couple weeks ago and asked him about it. He said he was drinking up there and left them, then apologized twice and said he'd pick them up. He never did. So, when I was there earlier this week and found 6 more, I was pissed! They're strewn all over the front lawn. Why is he doing that? I find it disrespectful and it hurts. We've been pouring our blood, sweat & tears into that property for the last 4 years and he goes up there to drink and leave empty beer bottles all over the place. He knows I go up there every week to check on it!!! GRRRR!

I don't know what my next step should be. I'm at a loss ... I really want this to work and I'm not going to give up on our marriage. So, if anyone can offer any advice, I'm willing to listen.

Thx,

CAZ

You asked...


His behavior is symbolic.
He carelessly throws trash around and does not pick up his own messes.

This behavior is symbolic of who he is.

If you expect something else from such a person, your expectations are askew and need rethinking.

Look, your husband is a drunk.
You cannot undo this fact by any MARRIAGE BUILDERS plan.
Your options are those of any person married to a drunk.


Acceptance
Unacceptance

Which do you choose?

I'm choosing to fight for a relationship that has worked and was very happy for many years. I'm not going to just give up on us just because its difficult and he's being selfish. Yes, he has a problem with alcohol and yes, it is difficult to accept his behavior. I've accepted that he has a problem with alcohol,...I'm just not accepting to leave when it gets rough...even if he did abandon me. He's also a human being, a friend.

Thanks for your response.

In case you don't know, my H is an alcoholic, sober 12 1/2 years.

There are ways a person can choose to live with a non sober alcoholic spouse.
Have you been in an AlAnon group?
link

Counting the beer bottles (and being angry) is a sure way to tell your own life is out of control.

Did I say "give up"? I did not.
If you accept that WH is currently a drunk who has abandoned you, just exactly what do you see are your options for a plan at this point?

Asking "WHY is he doing this?" .... is not a plan. The reason "why" is that he is a drunk.

Now what? You are perfectly aware of the "why". You cannot change the "why".

What I see is you wanting and hoping that you can so SOMETHING that will inspire your man to change his ways.

He is sick. Right now, he loves his sickness more than he loves you or loves himself. Until he hits his bottom he will not make positive changes.

Some are what is called "low bottom drunks" .... they have to lose EVERYTHING before they decide to seek help. Some are "high bottom drunks" .... they turn themselves around before losing everything.

To love and care about a "low bottom drunk" is just heartbreaking. The efforts to keep looking for ways to "help" the drunk often keeps the drunk from reaching bottom.

The hardest thing is to let them suffer their consequences. To not rescue them when they are in pain.

But, this is what helps the low bottom drunk in the long term.

I am truely sorry for your situation.

One of the skills of Al Anon is LOVING DETACHMENT.

Take a look at THIS LINK

CAZ3, what Pep is telling you is that the only thing you can do is accept him how he is and make plans accordingly. You cannot change him. Hope is not a plan. Marriage counseling is going to avail you nothing wih a practicing alcoholic.

You might not accept that he has left the marriage, but your acceptance does not change reality: he HAS left the marriaqe. The only way to recover the marriage is for him to get help for his drinking. Until he stops drinking and gets into a program of recovery, he is not emotionally healthy enough to be in a marriage.

I am sorry you find yourself in this terrible place, but there is not much you can do for him. You CAN help yourself, as Pep suggested, by accepting the truth and by going to Alanon.

He does not have a problem with alcohol. He is an alcoholic. It's hard for you to even type those words, isn't it?

I understand. I really do. My husband also had a "problem with alcohol" .... until we both admitted the truth. He was a drunk and an alcoholic. He's no longer a drunk because he's sober ... but he will forever be an alcoholic.

This link is to an alcohol screening tool.
link

To anyone reading this thread who thinks that they themselves or their loved one may be an alcoholic .... try answering the questions.

Thanks for that info, ....I didn't know that you H is an alcholic.

Yes, I've been to AlAnon. I've also been reading up on Alcoholism. Outside the AlAlnon meetings, I've talked (at length) with other folks who have been married to or in some sort of relationship with someone who has a drinking problem.

I don't sit around all day stewing about the bottles laying around. I was just upset that he left them there again and wondering if this was a cry for help, just being a child, etc.

It's not hard... my H is an alcoholic, he's got a drinking problem, he's a liar, he's a quiter, etc. What is hard for me is that my H was so depressed with his life that he chose to abandon me out of the f'ken blue! That is what is hard. Fortunately, I'm strong enough to pick my life up and move on. I'm on this site to get support & encouragement, which I have. But I'm not looking for someone to presume they know me and my specific situation. They only know what and as much as I tell them. And, from what you know, I appreciate your responses.

it's not your fault

Thanks, MelodyLane. I know and I've accepted it....it just sucks (for lack of a better word). I know the only person who can change him is him. I don't have a plan, I take it day by day.

You made a good point about MC. It may not be fruitful, but who knows if it may do something, spark something within him to help himself? More importantly, I want to find out how our relationship got to this point and my thought was that a MC might make it easier to get some of this info out in the open. I need this for me ... if my H doesn't love me, I want to hear him tell me he doesn't love me anymore and wants a divorce. He left me a note telling me he doesn't love me, but that's it. That and the fact that he left the house. I'm aware that if he does attend, he may not tell the truth...but he may.

I know it's not my fault, but sometimes I forget that.

Thank you.

Thank you for this post, Pepperband

CAZ, the point is that MC is for RECOVERY, and he is not capable of that as long as he is a practicing alcoholic. The MC cannot help him with his drinking problem and that is an essential step before recovery of your marriage can ever take place. Nor can any MC force someone into recovery against their will. There is absolutely nothing a MC could say to a drunk to "get through to him," I assure you. There is nothing anyone can say. Alcoholics do not learn like that.

There are no magic words that one can say that will make him bend to your will and it is unrealistic to believe so.

On second thought, there are SOME magic words that can help an alcoholic, but they won't come from a MC. They could come from a JUDGE, police officer, an employer, etc. Magic words can be: "you are going to jail or AA, take your pick, mister." or "you are under arrest for drunk driving. you have the right to remain sil......" Those are very magic words to some.

Practicing alcoholics respond to LOSS, nothing else makes a dent.

But sitting in a counselors office lying to a MC when one is completely resistant to recovery is a waste of time and money. The MC cannot help him with his drinking and there will be no recovery until his drinking is arrested.

p.s. CAZ, please understand that I don't believe this is hopeless. But it is hopeless if you don't look at it realistically and stop wasting your time on fruitless endeavors. A much more effective tactic, IMO, would be to stop with the MC, go to Alanon and go into plan B. Remove yourself from his life entirely and only allow him back if he stops drinking. Otherwise he has no motivation to stop. And if he doesn't stop, you don't have a marriage anyway.

CAZ, this is my first post to you but I've read through your whole thread today. I can relate to what you're going through because I went through the same thing. We are now into year five of recovery. We've been married 31 years and have four grown kids and four awesome grandkids.

First of all, your husband is lying to you about his relationship with the OW. They are/were having sex. Second of all, Pep and ML are dead on with their posts to you.

My DH is also an alcoholic (sober now for five years and a full-time student in Bible School studying for the ministry). He went off the deep end in 2002 and we went to hell and back. You can read my story by clicking the link in my signature. But there was NOTHING I could do to change anything about him, except finally let go. I didn't have MB when I was going through it, if I had, I would have saved myself a lot of time and heartache.

You do... have MB... that is. But while he's actively drinking, MB can't help your marriage. It CAN help you get through this, one way or the other.

My DH was one of those low bottom drunks that Pep talks about. Even losing me, our kids, our home, his job, his friends, being arrested for DWI, being in a serious accident that nearly killed him, didn't make him stop drinking OR come back to me. It wasn't until he decided for himself that he was destroying his life and everything/everybody around him that he finally came to his senses and got help.

What you can do during all of this is work on YOU and your own personal recovery. Protect the love that you have for this man if that's what you want, but let. him. go. for now.

EGG ZAK LEE

Thank you, MelodyLane. I'm going to continue with the MC because it helps me. That was the biggest reason for going in the first place...for me. H has already removed himself from my life. I don't know where he is living or anything. We've only spoken/seen one another a handfull of times over the past 2+ months. I took him off my health insurance and I'm about to remove him from auto insurance (I waited for him to do it, but surprise, ...he hasn't). I've only called him to confirm where we were going to meet to discuss finance, etc. And, again, that was only a handful of times. What else do you think I can do?

You are exactly right, if he doesn't stop drinking and spirling downward, we don't have a marriage.

Thx again,

CAZ

Thank you. I appreciate your post, princessmeggy. I haven't read your story yet, but will do so over the weekend.

Quick update ... WH called last Friday and left a message on my cell. He apologized for not making it to the MC appt, explained why and at the end said, "we'll have to reschedule that, I'm sorry about that. I'll talk to you soon and we'll figure something else out. Okay, Bye." I'm still very hopeful and have the same "don't give up on this M" attitude. I'm just wondering what I should think about doing next?

Should I ask him to meet me (not via a MC appt.) so we can talk? Should I let it go and not contact him for a little while? I'm asking b/c there are still so many things up in the air - our unfinished house, our bills, etc. And, he still hasn't looked me in the face and told me he doesn't love me anymore and wants a divorce. Obviously, we're not living together and he's not around - which says a lot. BUT, if he really does want out, I need him to tell me. And if he doesn't know what he wants, I need him to tell me.

Should I try to expose the affair my WH is having, given my situation?

He abandoned me back in August. Don't know where he lives. He's driving the OW's truck. Last time I saw him and asked if he was seeing someone (I should have worded that differently....I should have used the word "affair") and he said, "yes and no, ...if you can call it that. I pretty much got my walking papers." That was BullS@#*. He was lying. He hasn't shown up to any of the three MC appts I set up, but has called to apologize for not making it and saying that we can reschedule. Why bother if he doesn't intend to go, but then feels the need to apologize and ask to reschedule???

Back to my intial question - should I expose the affair? I think I know the OW's name, but don't know where she lives.

CAZ3,

I just read through your whole thread here and see that Pep and Mel have been giving you some excellent advice and that PM has chimed in as well.

These are the folks who can help you the most, assuming you are willing to take their advice. They have BTDT and got the scars to prove it.

I know that you feel the need to focus on the affair as being the problem and it does need to be dealt with if your marriage is to have any hope of recovering. In most cases of adultery, the affair is the primary problem to deal with above everything else. But your real problem is his alcohol abuse and until THAT is resolved there really isn't much you can do to save your marriage because as long as he is drinking, you frankly don’t really have much of one.

Addicts are "married" to the source of their addiction. In your husband's case, he is married to the booze. Until his relationship with alcohol is over there is really not a lot you can do for him.

But there is a LOT you can do for you. You might want to look into Healing Is a Choice from New Life Ministries. This is the website of Steve Arterburn and the authors of Boundaries, Dr John Townsend and Dr Henry Cloud.

As much as I dislike the whole codependence movement, you need to focus on one fact above all else: You aren't responsible for your husband's problems. You can't fix him, CAZ. Like all alcoholics he has endeavored to make his problems yours. But just like you aren't responsible for his affair, you also aren't responsible for his drinking. But you have probably shielded him from the consequences of his drinking for a while now and before you took over that job it was probably his mother that had that position in his life.

So he doesn't really have a problem with drinking because other people have made it their problem.

Now it's time to help him.

Help him to have a problem...

You see, it isn't merely the actions while drunk that are the problem. Those are the things that have consequences, some of them serious and are what loved ones and family members and friends of an alcoholic have to deal with on a daily basis. But the problem for the alcoholic is that they live for the booze. The booze is the most important thing in their life and until they get to the point that they hit bottom, it will be what they live for. Everything else they do will be to support the booze. Their interactions with others will be attempts at manipulation to avoid consequences while continuing to drink.

Unfortunately, the bottom for some is face down in the street with nothing left but the DTs. For others, the bottom can be getting called into the boss' office for being late one too many times. More are closer to the first than to the second.

While seeing a counselor might help you, I would recommend one who helps family members of alcoholics as your first choice. While marriage counseling might help you, what you really need right now is for him to reach the end of the road and realize he has to turn around or become lost forever, not just to you, but to the rest of his world.

I really believe in trying to save marriages. I wish I had the education to really help folks do just that. But as already pointed out to you by others, MB can't really work as long as there is an addiction of any kind. That is because as long as he is drunk, he is incapable of doing what it will take to make the marriage work and improve and actually recover from this and be stronger than it was before it happened. Until alcohol is no longer ruling his thinking and his greatest desire in life, I am afraid that there is little you can do to truly recover.

Now he may end his affair. He might even come to you and beg forgiveness, make all kinds of promises, tell you that he loves you more than life itself and all sorts of things people with an alcohol addiction do and say when they are trying to manipulate others into doing something for them and relieving them of the consequences of their choices and actions, that is, making the alcoholic’s problems belong to someone else. This is a pattern that is repeated many times in the lives of alcoholics until someone finally refuses to take responsibility for their mess.

Can your marriage be saved? Maybe it can, but not until he is sober. And being sober isn't about not drinking. You can not have a thing to drink for years and still be a drunk. It’s a condition known as being a dry drunk. It’s being not under the influence in the physical sense while the brain still operates as if alcohol is present. The thinking process still works as if the alcohol was still ruling the life of the alcoholic. (*Side note here: This is the difference between a former wayward spouse and a wayward spouse not actively engaged in an affair as well. Just not committing adultery does not stop the process of having a wayward mindset. It doesn’t fix what was broken to allow the affair in the first place.)

This has to come from him in order for it to affect his life for real and for good.

Sorry if that wasn't much help.

You need to focus on you right now. I honestly don't know if your marriage is going to survive this or not. I can say definitively that having a viable marriage in the future will only result from his dealing with his alcoholism.

The best I can do for you is to pray for you both. THAT is something I can and WILL do.

Mark

As I told Mark before, thank you very much for your post earlier this month. I appreciate your being candid and honest even if it is hard to hear.

UPDATE * My WH's uncle passed away earlier this week. We both just saw him the first weekend in August (right before D-Day) and he had had a stroke, but looked good considering. It was hard to hear about his passing, but it seemed expected. I decided to go to the calling hours because I always liked his uncle and I know my WH's family and I'm close with them. I'm very uncomfortable about seeing open caskets and going to wake's, but this wasn't about me it was about paying my respects to him. Everyone thanked me for coming and his cousin told me to hang in there and said, "You are a ray of sunshine and god will bless you." WH's other uncle gave me a big hug, his aunt, etc. It felt really good. Then, I turned around and saw my FIL. He looked at me and said, "CAZ, I got your letter (I recently wrote to let him know about WH, what happened, etc. I said nothing bad about WH, just that he needs his family now)." FIL had the saddest eyes. We both hugged and he looked at me again and said, "it just brings tears to my eyes." He was referring to me and my WH. I hugged him again and I was about to break down into tears so I said, "I have to go" and left the funeral home.

Got a flat tire - noticed it earlier today. Called WH and left a vmail (I haven't seen him since 10/12 and haven't talked with him since the week after that) asking to borrow jack, socket wrench. He called me back within a half hour and said he's on his way to do it. He got here in 15 minutes and changed my tire using my spare. Then he said he'd follow me to the gas station to put air in the tire because it was pretty low. When he finished putting air in the tires, he said, "I'm really sorry about all of this. I know we need to talk and I need to give you money 4 bills and I left you hangin'." He was looking me in the eye when he was talking. I said, "when do you want 2 talk?" and he said "how about the wkd after next?" I said okay. Then he thanked me for going to his uncle's calling hours. I reached out to hug him and he hugged me back and said, "it really meant a lot to the ol' man." Then, we talked a bit more and he said, "we'll talk again soon." We both got into our cars. I pulled up to his car and got out. He rolled his window down and I asked him to get out of the car. He got right out and I gave him another hug....I squeezed him and said, "I didn't hug you like I wanted to earlier." Then, I just got into my car and left.

Nothing has changed since last update on 11/29. WH is still not living with me, hasn't provide any $ for bills and hasn't come to "talk" with me about what's going on.

I started a plan of acting, instead of reacting. The first few months I solely reacted to what he did, said, didn't do, didn't say, etc. I'm sick of reacting. So, when I say I'm acting.....I mean I'm living my life - spending time with friends & family, new activities, not trying to contact WH, not planning my next move based on what he does or doesn't do. I know it sounds wishy washy, but I THINK I've let him go. I say "think" because I still love him and want to work things out so I'm not sure if that is truly letting go. I want to stay strong and I was really worried that holding on would only hurt me OR make me go crazy. I also thought that by letting go, I could some day get him back. And, when I say "him", I mean the H I've known and loved all of these years, not the uncaring, selfish, liar/cheater that he is now. I don't want THAT back.

Saw my lawyer again a couple weeks ago. I gave him the OW's name and some info I had on her (which isn't much). I'm not filing anything (I don't want a divorce, ... I would walk thru fire to work things out with my WH), however, I always want to be prepared and know all my options.

The holidays are rough. I always loved this time of year....I mean I was like a child when it came to Christmas. It's such a wierd feeling that this year I don't feel that way:-( But, I'm gonna try. My birthday was a few days ago and I made the best of it. It turned out to be a good day.

Thanks for listening.

Me: 32 (just turned!)
WH: 30
Married: 2 1/2 years
Together: 15 years (yes, we dated in HS, stayed friends during college (and both dated other people, then came together again and have been together ever since)
No kids