Resilient<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited November 26, 2000).]

I don't know what to say. I know that you love him, and you probably always will, but if after everything that you have done for him he can still file papers to be with the OW, then he doesn't deserve you anyway. It's totally his loss. <P>Lostva has given you a lot of good advice - I'd follow it! I don't really feel qualified to give you advice on how to deal with this matter, but I did want to you know that we are all here for you, no matter what happens.

{{{{{{{JO}}}}}}}<BR>I am sorry. Stay here. There are many friends for you here. L

I am so sorry! But, maybe it will give you both the freedom to go ahead and piece back your relationship. He will resent the OW, if that is why he is pursuing the divorce. And maybe, he will be free of the guilt to start again with you. I am sure this hurts deeply. Hang in there!<BR>

Resilient<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited November 26, 2000).]

I don't know what to say....I just wanted you to know that I just said a prayer for you that everything would be OK. I will be thinking about you tonight.

Hi, Jo...<P>I cannot pretend that things will definitely be better, but remember Yogi Berra's statement, "It's not over 'till it's over". You did nothing to deserve this and you know that. Also, he said "yes, probably", leaving himself some wriggle room.<P>I don't know how much you know of my story, but I filed for divorce in September of last year because I couldn't get W to joint counseling, to work on the marriage, nothing. I just gave up. Her legal response to my filing was to request joint counseling. That didn't work, because W wasn't ready. Finally, this year when she started making noises about working things out, I started asking about withdrawing the divorce petition. First, she would say that's not what she wanted. Later on(mid-summer), she changed that to "if you want". Well, that's not the answer I was looking for, so I never did withdraw.<P>I just posted that the court has decided enough time has passed and they will dismiss the petition unless they hear from one of us in writing. W is not going to respond and neither am I.<P>I just want to show you that a "filing" is not necessarily the end. You still have avenues to pursue. Just delay things and slow them down. Maybe your H needs this process and the time(bought with your delays) to come out of the fog.<P>I don't want to encourage unjustified optimism, just discourage unjustified pessimism. Funny statement coming from me and if you don't believe that, ask Sheba...<P>Hugs,<BR>--DeWayne--

I feel your hurt in your words...HANG ON...we are all here for you, I wish I could say something profound and wise for you right now, but there are no words that can ease that kind of pain, when it gets to be to much...even before it does, put it in Gods hands. Stay here. One step at a time.<p>[This message has been edited by dumone (edited October 30, 2000).]

Resilient,<P>Sweetheart--even divorce (if that worst case scenario actually plays out here) doesn't mean the end--please remember that!<P>You're in the plan--he's in the fog, please don't let his actions cause you to waiver now. <P>Stay strong, Jo. Love and prayers are coming your way.<P>L <P>

Resilient<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited November 26, 2000).]

<B>Resilient</B>, my dear friend.<BR>I’m so sorry to hear (read) about this. <B>But</B>, this is a big “but”, like <B>Heartpain</B> quoted: "It's not over 'till it's over". Jo, I know it hurt and it hurt badly too. But it’s not the end of your happiness. You will overcome this as time goes by. You know what some people re-married each other after they divorced. Be yourself Jo, just be yourself. Don’t give up hope yet. One day he will wake up from this. If he doesn’t, it is his lost. You will be fine. I know you will be fine. I will be OnOnOnOn, just to be here to support you. We all will be here for you, my dear Jo. Be strong.<P>OOOO<BR>

Jo,<BR>I know divorce laws vary throughout the states, but one of the things you can do is utilize the time limits to the max. Here once the papers are served the servee has 20 days to sign before more action is taken. The filing comes after that. In our state the divorce can be final in 60 days, but recently my brother & his wife both agreed they wanted a divorce and settlement took 7 months.<P>I totally agree that it isn't over until it is over. And then there's some doubt.<P>You didn't do anything to deserve this.<P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger."<BR>(Proverbs 15:1).

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Resilient:<BR><B>How can he just stop caring about me like that? How can he hurt me like this, filing for D says you're not good enough for me, you didn't cut it. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Jo, if you don't mind me making a casual observation - hon, you beat up on YOURSELF more than your H and the OW combined! Please don't! He is NOT saying that you're not good enough or you didn't cut it, and he definitely isn't saying he doesn't love you anymore! Even HE said that divorce isn't necessarily final. I think Sweetpea is right - he's gone from having two women meet his needs (cake and eating it too) to one cutting off all contact and the other cutting off sex, so he's doing whatever he can to get something back. "Why not just come back to me" - because the OW is hounding him about it and holding their child over his head. She's using love, sex, and guilt to manipulate him. He has to find out for himself that it's a game she's playing.<P>If it does come down to divorce, that does not mean that it's the end. If it does come to it, try to look at it as an end to THIS chapter of your life together. The betrayals, the lies, the hurt, etc. Maybe the divorce will alleviate his guilt for what he's done to you. Leilana is right - you're in the Plan, he's in the Fog. Try to remember that, and stop beating up on yourself!<P>[This message has been edited by Carolina Belle (edited October 30, 2000).]<p>[This message has been edited by Carolina Belle (edited October 30, 2000).]

SweetPea and OOOO,<P>Thanks for being here. I'm trying not to be a mess ... I can't leave from work to go home, too busy. God I hope none of you have to experience this ... the pain is so great. When I talked to him it was like "him and me again", our voices were "US" ... I did ask him why he felt he had to do this ... I said "I haven't been doing anything to hurt you and Lana (OW), I've left you guys completely alone. He said he knows that and he knows that's just how I am.<P>I'm so stupid for being married to a man who cheated on me twice and had OCs and still forgave him. Now I'm getting what I deserve, that's how I feel. Like loving and unconditionally trusting someone is not enough ... and I was asking for this.<P>Just wnat to crawl under my desk today and hide. Hard to face my collegues and fake feeling okay.<P>Jo

Dearest Jo,<P>Please stay strong! I didn't visit the site all weekend, and noticed that so much has happened to many over it. His "yes, probably" doesn't mean that he has done it yet. Some things are easier said than done.<P>There have been so many that have posted here regarding papers being filed and then having them withdrawn at the last minute. That could happen to you, too. He could also change his mind about filing. Don't give in to the worst scenario, stay positive. <P>As always you and others here are in my prayers. Take care, MT

Jo, Honey, this may be a good thing...I know that sounds crazy--but things are no longer "status quo". Something is happening.<BR>Something is going wrong in his life and he can feel it...he knows it...he just doesn't know how to fix it. He thinks he's doing the right thing now. But he's actually floundering like a fish out of water, like a turtle stuck on it's back. And YOU aren't the one who put him in that position! Lana is!<P>(I'm so sorry if my username is any kind of trigger, Jo--if it's any consolation--it's the name of my DOG!)<P>I know it's painful to experience, Jo, but accept the fact that he IS floundering--find peace in knowing that the life he is choosing is not making him happy and he's just groping for the tree limbs as he's falling down. And he has to experience it, Jo. This is his chance to learn and grow.<P>Please, please--try to continue to be the only strong, steady and true force that he knows in his life. Your love, like that 1,000 watt smile of yours, will shine like a beacon and he may find his way back to you again.<P>We love you, Jo. Hang on, babes.<P>Aloha,<P>L<P>P.S. I wrote a letter to your H and hope it doesn't do any harm. But I really think he needs to know what the reality is and your hands are a bit tied due to LB considerations. It was also cathartic for me in that your pain is tearing right thru me as well.<P> <P>

Resilient<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited November 26, 2000).]

Jo,<P>I'm so sorry for what you have been going through.<BR>I can't think anything to say to make you feel better.<P>This may not be a good thing, but just think that things are going somewhere. It's not in pause anymore, and like many people said to you, it's not over till it's over..<P>And please don't put yourself down no matter what. You don't deserve this, you don't!!<P>Hang in there, and keep posting..<P>HUGS,<P>Meg<BR>

Honey, if he doesn't remember you, why is he "chit-chatting" with you at all? And about this boy who is so very important to him. Isn't it possible he's not getting the feedback and support he needs from Lana when he has such discussions with her about him?!<P>(And please use "L" or "Lei" or "Hey you"--I can't stand my username right now!)<P>And how long can even great sex be a "holding" factor?<P>If all I had to eat were Butterfingers, after a while, even <B>I</B> would get tired of them. <P>And if she knows it is, and he stays with her, don't you think she might get to feeling just a teensy bit used and resentful? A little "prostitutish" to be used for sex to try and keep what she wants. That is also a little factoid in your corner. <P>And don't you agree she <I>is</I> acting desperately at the moment.<P>Your steadfast behavior and goodness is what's making him contact you. He's drawn to it like a magnet. Eventually he may see that that's what really matters in his life and he may decide he can't live without it. <P>Anyone can learn to have great sex. True beauty and goodness--now those are gifts from God. Sorry, Jo--but you've been blessed big time! <P><BR> <P>L<BR> <P><p>[This message has been edited by Leilana (edited October 30, 2000).]

Lei & Jo - <P>I hope you don't mind - I had to add my .02 cents to Lei's letter to your H. I am so sad about this whole thing! This is NOT fair - why do good people have to get hurt like this?!

Resilient<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited November 26, 2000).]

Jo,<P>{{{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}}}}<P>It must be impossible to try to work when you're feeling as you do. I know I've cried many a times in my office. I know there isn't anything anyone on here can say or do that will take away your pain. We all know what it would take to do that.<P>This is the time when you really need to pull yourself together. Don't let Lana take you down without a fight! It seems as if your H is doing something out of obligation for his child rather than love for Lana. Regardless of whether they share a child or whether she provides him the sex he wants, without true love their relationship will not work out! <P>I think you should find out all you can about what the divorce procedures are in your state. What about just having a legal separation? Tell him you will not agree to a divorce unless he agrees to a period of separation (during this time he will see what life with Lana will really be like). <P>I'm just rambling here trying to think of ways to get your more time, time for him to see the truth of your love for each other. You still speak kindly of him, so he must be a nice man. He had to be in order for you to fall in love with him, right? <P>Jo, wish I could do more, say more for you. Just know that you are being thought of by many. And even though you may be alone tonight you'll be in the prayers of many of us here, praying that your pain will be eased somehow.<P>Blessings, Many Tears

I'm so dadblasted tired of this sh*t, feels like I've been going thru this thing forever, with very little relief. Total in all it's been approx 1.5 years ... I am so mentally tired.<P>Damn, what am going to say to him tonight on the phone?<P>Jo<P>

JO!<P>Stop! You are getting wayyyy ahead of yourself here. Take some deep breaths. You only need to deal with today--stop predicting more hurt. It is very possible it may never come to pass.<P>I know you hurt so bad right now but alot of us can see the bigger picture you aren't capable of seeing yet!<P>Someone who is vengeful, that wants to win at all costs, that's out to hurt you--she is making herself out to be an evil little witch and like all witches--everyone will eventually see right thru her! And what kind of life partner does someone with those above attributes make? I almost feel sorry for your H!<P>But for today, you are not divorced. And you won't be divorced tomorrow. This is a process that takes a long time. Your H is still married to you! He and the little witch are not legally united! Don't be so quick to throw the rice yet, Jo! <P>Don't get ahead of yourself. At this very moment, Lana is the one who is gnawing on the carpet in anguish and spite--the fact that you still hold so much power over your H is making her act this way. <P>THINK! Why is she being so aggressive in wanting to win and trying to hurt you? Because you are a VERY real threat to her "relationship". You have a much bigger hold on him than you can see, Jo. He's not going to tell you, and SHE sure is heck isn't going to tell you but LOOK at what's happening all around you! Look at the chaos! <P>Honey, you're doing something RIGHT! Even tho right now you feel like you're life is falling down around your ears--this desperate time is happening because you're dealing with a desperate OW who is prodding and pushing at your floundering H. And THEY are not HAPPY! <P>

Jo,<P>Go take a warm bubble bath or listen to your favorite empowering music, pray for strength and peace and do whatever has made you relax and peaceful and empowered you in the past. And keep taking deep slow breaths.<P>Be very wary and cautious and careful of what you say. The best thing is to just listen. Your plan is to be strong, show your love and support, and be all those things that OW will never be capable of. You are weary but you are strong.<P>Your H is a confused and delusional man right now. He sees it to some extent but is very afraid right now. Have pity on him if nothing else. No matter what he says. Remember, he has a witch on his back. <P> AND she most definitely may be listening. Show her how a real woman speaks and behaves. <P>Jo, you can DO this!

Hello Jo,<P>I was away over the weekend. I just read about what you have been going through. I really am so sorry that you have to go through all of these horrible feelings. I know what a dark place that can be. I read some of the Psalms when I was feeling especially low. I felt comforted by them. I know that the feelings are crippling. Take some deep breaths, a nice nap and maybe a shower or bath with some of your favorite aromatic bath oils. This can be very relaxing. He hasn't file yet. He might not even make it there. Don't kill yourself thinking about what could happen or what an evil wench the OW is. Concentrate on yourself and your H. Let go of some of your anger toward her. You dont need that extra baggage (take it from someone who used to carry a lot around). I mean this with all sincerity. Jo, you are resilient, just as you chose the name for yourself. You will perservere no matter what. Take care of yourself first. You'll be in my prayers.<P>cleo

Resilient<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited November 26, 2000).]

JO,<P>I'm sending cyber hugs while you are talking to your H, so you can be strong and calm and brave.<P>I know how you feel.. because I was there. I felt my H was just throwing me away like a garbage and he didn't care how I felt etc..<BR>But the truth is, he's not doing this to you, he's doing this to himself, and you were unwillingly dragged into this mess. And it maybe hard to think like this right now, but just believe that it's your H's loss for not being able to see so much beauty in you. If he can't see that he doesn't deserve you. I know right now it's hard to see this way but I try to believe this for myself. No matter how much you are a great wife to him it happened because he's the problem NOT YOU.<P>I will go eat something so as soon as you talke to your H please let us know about it.<P>((((((((((((((((((((JO))))))))))))))))))))<P>Meg

Resilient<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited November 26, 2000).]

{{{{{{{{{Jo}}}}}}}}}}}<P>You sound good! <P>An awful lot of people were pulling and praying for you today!<P>Off the top of my head, it almost sounds like your H wants you to "help" him get out of this. He is somewhat speaking in code, but it sounds like he is certainly going through the process to satisfy OW but telling you not to sign. That way, he can assure her w/documentation that he did his part but now YOU are the hold up. Your not signing will buy him some time that HE has no control over.... what, then, can she do but STEW. If nothing else, it will probably relieve some of the "pressure" that he is feeling right now. <P>This could work to your advantage because I would assume that legally, you have a certain amount of time before any action is taken w/o your signature. She will blow a gasket because you are "holding up" her life, but so be it. This will be the time for him to see her for the person she really is.<P>Glad conversation went better than expected!<P>God Bless,<BR>Enlightened

Resilient<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited November 26, 2000).]

Jo,<P>You did great! I'm so proud of you! Please get a good nights sleep and take care of yourself and call me when you want.<BR>Laura

Hi Jo-<P>I am so sorry I wasn't here for you earlier. I think you were the first one to respond to my plea for help.<P>Jo-for whatever it is worth I am sending you big hugs and prayers. I know you will be OK. But this stuff that is being said between you and H has got you months into the future. <P>As you told me-live a moment at a time. You will do fine and truthfully you don't want to be married to anyone who wouldn't be happy to be married to you would you?<P>I don't understand................why would your H allow anyone to be so controling in his life? It sounds as though he is afraid of the OW.<P>Hang on Jo-you are a good person and if I have to drive up there and talk you through this I will!<P>HUGS<P><P>------------------<BR>*heartache*<P>"Life's A Dance<BR>You Learn As You Go.<BR>Sometimes You Lead<BR>Sometimes You Follow!<BR>Don't worry 'Bout What You Don't Know<BR>LIfe's A Dance <BR>You Learn As You Go."

JO<P>Wow what a dreadful day you have had! I am really only checking the site at night--if I remember to log on before 9:30! Some weird thing, I can't after until midnite.<P>I know that now you realize that it is not you who is the undeserving. But I know where your feelings are. My H isn't filing, but he is confused. he was finally able to say that word tonite for the first time. And I got a real hug too! I love these brief moments. <P>You are a fabulous, warm hearted person who has the greatest faith and love I know. You are the epitomy of forgiveness. I hope to live up to your example. I so often am down on MYself for my h unable to confide- still after all these months. I have gone through the worst time, lately. But I lost the fear of losing, and gave him a boundry. To stay with me, or leave if he feels he needs to continue the physical side of the relationship. I know he is hooked on her, he talks to her every day. But that is all I am willing to take.<P>I have come a long way in a short time. When the Lord feels you are at the end of the line, he gives you another reel to use. You have had quite a few, but in the long run, the Lord helps us to find strength when we thought we could not do another day. <P>It is like the example of people in car accidents: The one free, lifts the car off the other victim with super human strength. I think true love is like that too. Superhuman. The Lord doesn't create such a love without purpose, if it is not for your H, then it is for another who will cherish you with incredible mountains of love. <P>Do not close your door, the Lord opened a window for you tonite, be sure you keep one open too--for yourself. You are great. I am praying for a peaceful heart and mind for you. <P>Beth

Jo,<BR> A year and some months ago, after 36 yrs. of marriage, my husband told me he wanted a D and didn't love me any more. He wanted to be with OW that he thought he was madly in love with. I put him off with one excuse after another, he was cruel and yet he would send me mixed messages. So I knew in my heart (even though everyone, including our grown children) would tell me to move on, that he still had love for me and that some how he would see that and come back. Well he did! He finally woke up out of his fog and knew it would never work with her and that He had made a big mistake and that he still loved me. That was a little over a year ago, we are back together and we are doing great. <BR> So there is still hope for you, I think you are doing good, I know your pain I've been there, I thought I would die, there is NO greater pain, but hang in there, we are all here to help you through it.<BR>God Bless <P>------------------<BR>Gayle

Jo,<P>I don't really have any advise. Just wanted you to know that your situation has been in my mind all day and I have been pulling for you. Hang in there. Something is working in your favor or he would not be so wishy washy. He is in fog deeper than some, probably due to the child in the picture. It seems as if he "chose" his words carefully, which is not always the most honest and open communication. Maybe he needs to get drunk like Sweetpea's H did and truth with slap him in the face. Is there a way for you to increase communication right now? Are you in Plan B accidently or on purpose? Is there a way you can send him a card with the "here's pulling for you sentiment." or a get well card or something?<P>Will keep you in my prayers?<P>Love,<P>Beth

<P>Jo! You did so good! <P>When the going gets tough, Jo gets going!<P> NOT bringing up OW was the best way to go. He has to be the first one to see her for what she is--you telling him how mean and awful she is--even if he knows it's the truth--will only make him defensive. Good grief! Only a total idiot would throw away a precious jewel for fool's gold, right?!<P>I don't know how much "time" not signing brings. But it really sounds like your H doesn't want you to. <P> He's just trying to appease OW and maybe he thinks letting you go would be merciful to you with all the pain he has caused you so far--but he's asking you not to sign because in his heart, he doesn't really want to break his connection with you. Right now you're the only good and true thing in his life--he can actually see that--he's not stupid. From there, maybe he can open his eyes further and face the painful truth of the huge mess he's made of his life and try to set it right again. But he'll never be able to do it alone.<P>You'll need to stay on course, Jo. He's weak. I don't see him standing up to that OW yet. <P>Picture him leaving the shore to swim out to another bountiful island he can see in the distance. Halfway there he realizes the island really isn't all that great--in fact it's pretty ugly--so he's torn. He swam all that way and he's so tired, and he made this committment to do it, so he's he might as well go all the way to this new ugly island that at least means shelter and rest--but he can't help but look back at the unbelievable beauty of the island home he just left. He could kick himself for his idiocy, he misses his island, he wants to go back, but he just put so much energy and time into going to the new island.<P>Right now, your H is slowing down in his swimming towards that icky pile of dirt in the ocean. He's barely treading water, he's so busy looking back at the emerald mountains and soft warm sparkeling sands that he left. <P>Poor guy!<P>Keep "sparkeling", Jo!

Hi Jo,<P>It sounds like the phone conversation went well, at least it wasn't the gloom and doom you thought it might be. Remember, focus on positive thoughts and energy whenever you think of your husband. Also, release any anger and hate you might be feeling for Lana, I say this because it will come right back to you. Be the bigger and better person by not allowing her to drag you down to her level.<P>It seems like your husband still loves you and cares for you very much. It also seems like he doesn't know how to get out of the mess that he put himself into without hurting anyone. He is probably afraid that Lana may do something that will ruin the relationship with his son. You did great by just listening to him, continue to do that. Show him empathy, don't give advice, reflect what you think he is feeling. Don't pressure him to come home, just continue to be loving and treat him lovingly. He is going to miss you so much, he won't be able to stay away much longer. <P>I'm so happy that the conversation went well. Things are moving and at least you know it's not at a stand still. You now have some idea of what is going on over there. And more importantly, you know that he doesn't want you to sign papers. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, find out all you can about the divorce process in your state. For example, ask what it would mean if you didn't sign those papers. What kind of waiting period, etc.<P>I'll continue to pray for you, be strong, be loving, be kind to yourself and to your H.<P>Blessings, MT

Even though you don't want a divorce you should at least consult a lawyer so you know how it all works in case he does file. <P>What little I know about WA divorce law:<BR>WA is a no fault state which means that unless you respond to the divorce petition within 90 days the divorce is automatically granted. Community property state in long term marriages(20 years or more) the economically disadvantaged spouse can be granted a larger share of marital assets otherwise it is 50/50.

Hi Jo:<P>Oh my, I've been gone this weekend and a lot has happened I see. The phone conversation last night was interesting....and confusing too. He apparently is being harrassed to file by OW...but he really doesn't want to.<BR>From her point of view the quicker she gets you out of the picture the faster she can get him tied to her. Probably the easiest thing for him to do is to seem like he's going along with her and file, but to encourage you to drag your feet to slow it down...this indicates to me that he's still confused about what he wants.<P>So, even though this hurts, remember it's not his idea...it's hers. And she is going to be having to LB to force him to go any further on this. <P>I say just kept doing what you've been doing, because he's still in a state of confusion. She has not been able to end that confusion...because you still have a hold on him...she's just trying to use the weapons she has right now to force things along. The longer you can hold out...the more opportunity he will have to see how she is trying to manipulate him.<P>I can't remember what state you live in. Is it Washington? Tell me what state and I'll look up the statutes and see what you can do to stall. I also would see about consulting one of those attorneys again to see what you can do.<P>Jo, I know you think this is the end, but it doesn't seem that way to me. It seems like he's still in the fog but not so deep in that he is totally blind...after all he's not forging ahead...he's hesitant about everything he's doing. <P>Keep talking to him...be the reasonable voice. Keep telling him you love him and understand that he is confused right now, and needs time to decide what is best for him and you are prepared to give him the time and space to decide for himself, but that you think seeking a divorce while he's in such a confused state is not a good idea. Ask him to take the time to decide for himself and not be pressured by anyone.<P>Jo, you're such a wonderful person...it's a crime that he can't see that right now...or maybe he does but he also wants this other.<BR>Only time can make him see that it's definitely not worth what he would have to give up.<P>Angels and Prayers ~ Faye

Jo, I haven't had a chance to post in a few days, but when I read this, I felt I HAD to jump in:<P><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Resilient:<BR><B><BR>I'm so stupid for being married to a man who cheated on me twice and had OCs and still forgave him. Now I'm getting what I deserve, that's how I feel. Like loving and unconditionally trusting someone is not enough ... and I was asking for this.<P><BR>Jo</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Now, not to sound too harsh, but that's just about the silliest thing I've ever heard! Let's get this straight:<P>Your unconditional love for your H is a beautiful thing! The fact that he doesn't return it simply illustrates what a fool he has been. You should NEVER have to feel bad for loving someone unconditionally. Some people will never experience that feeling, and they are truly missing out.<P>Forgivness is another beautiful thing. The mere fact that you can forgive him after all of this just shows what a wonderful person YOU are! Most people would have to work for the rest of their lives to deserve that forgiveness which you so freely have given.<P>HE doesn't deserve YOU, Jo. If there were justice in the world, he would have to atone for his deeds for the rest of his life before he could be deserving of your love. <P>He WILL wake up one day and realize what he has lost. Maybe that day will come before those awful papers take effect. Maybe that day will come later when he finally sees what kind of evil witch the OW is, after she's wrecked HIS life. <P>Until that day, keep working on YOU. Realize that you will be just fine without him, and that you have an incredible soul that deserves to recieve the kind of unconditional love you have given.<P>Keep reading, keep posting, and we'll keep hope alive for you when you lose sight of it yourself.<P>cj<BR>

Resilient<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited November 26, 2000).]

I don't know if it's Halloween kicking in or what, but I've been in a silly mood today. My little boy is dressed up as The Bear in the Big Blue House (he's 20 months old), and is just ADORABLE!!! <P>Anyway, Jo, I'm very happy for you. My H and I talked about your case a little bit last night. I hope you and your H start talking more...I don't think Plan B was the right timing. Plan A - definitely. OW is starting to crack, and he needs to have good, FRESH memories of you to help him with his decision. It seems to me like the less contact he has with you, the more distance is created. Personally, I don't think that's a good thing.<P>Anyway, back to my silly mood...if your H does come around, I have personally written a "Dear Jane" letter which he can give to Lana...it's ALMOST finished (hee hee). It will be one of my finer pieces of work . I'll post it tomorrow for your viewing pleasure (I'm sure you could use a good laugh, hon!)<P>Best Wishes!<BR>Ali

OMG OMG OMG JO<P>I don't log on for a few days and whoosh...<P>You handled everything beautifully...WAY TO GO!!!<P>I'll post more later...after eating most of my son's trick or treat candy :P/<P>I'm so proud of you.<P>allison

Hey CB,<P>Thanks so much for being there yesterday for me ... felt like I was hanging by a thread. <P>You're son sounds so adorable, can you please post pics of him, maybe all three of you guys. I'd love to see you.<P>You are such a character, CB ... composing a "Dear John" letter to Lana. If my H left her we'd need to move to another counrty and even then she'd make our lives hell. Can't tell you the enough of what she's capable of, I feel mostly for the boys, Lil Stephen <yeah, she named her son aft my H, his exact name, nice, eh? and she was the one night stand woman, the groupie>. The boys are going to suffer so much from all this trauma ... I'm planning on doing whatever it takes to protect Ryan <OC #2> from all this crap. He's a beautiful child and has so much potential. Just lucky that his mom and her family like me so much.<P>Since you told your H about my situation, what was his take on it, just curious. I can imagine he says to cut my loses and move on, as most ppl do.<P>Thanks again CB, we're all so blessed to have someone as fiesty and wonderful as you in our corner of the world.<P>Be well.<P>Love,<BR>Jo<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited October 31, 2000).]

Hey Jo,<P>Ok, what do you mean you feel lucky that OC's family likes you?<BR> <BR>You come here, day after day, no matter what you are going through and inspire each of us. They, Jo, are lucky to know you. This child is lucky to have you in his life.<P>It's puzzling to me why we, the betrayed seem to feel so much shame. I feel it...every time I hide my bare ring finger when I see someone I know. How I don't visit with my neighbors any more...they must see me as the "dumped" wife. Why do we have to tell ourselves over and over again that we are OK, that we are loveable...I mean, I can see it so clearly in you, but we just can't believe it in ourselves.<P>Theres a passage from a book I'm reading that I want to copy here for you. It's helped me, I hope you don't take it wrong...it's not so much meant as a "moving on" sort of passage, but something that helped me let go of what I can't control.<P>"We are like children building a sand castle. We wmbellish it with beautiful shells, and pieces of colored glass. The castle is ours, off-limits to others. We're willing to attack if others threaten to hurt it. Yet despite all our attachment, we know that the tide will inevitable come in and sweep the sand castle away. The trick is to enjoy it fully but without clinging, and when the time comes, let it dissolve back into the sea."<P>The book is called "When Things Fall Apart" by Pema Chodron. It's helping me some.<P>Jo, it's amazing to me how you and H still connect when you talk. There is, as you know, something still there...big time, and he damn well knows it.<P>I still struggle with Plan B...and I know you do too. Is it doing more damage than good? I don't know...I like your plan to call and talk to him. He remembers the good times Jo, and that means a lot. He is a man in turmoil...he has no idea what is right here. I think he must have strong feelings for his child and OW's other kids. That is a strong bond...and to be honest, sometimes I've wondered if his place is with his child, but then I read your posts and know in my heart that he should be with you Jo. You didn't manipulate him to get him to marry you...you accept these children...NO other woman will ever be able to do that.<P>Please stay as strong as you are...your bouncing back skills amaze me every day hon. Even if you do get papers, remember, they are mere papers. It will not be the end until YOU decide it's the end.<P>~allison

Hey Allison,<P>I like the passage you quoted. I understand and agree with it. I really like the analogy.<P>I don't know why we, the WS, feel all this shame. I feel like a failure and an outcast, especially where I live. Gig Harbor is a heavy family oriented town, I feel like I don't belong at times. And watching all the family activities and all these wonderful moms and dads with their kids on the week-ends really hurts.<P>As far as Plan B goes, I share your sentiments, Allison. I don't know if it was the right thing to do or not. I somewhat feel that if I wouldn't have avoided Steve for those two months things might be diff right now, but I just couldn't, I was loosing it and I might have lost my job. The Plan A I did was so long that by the time he moved out I had no emotional or physical strength left. So I guess I didn't have a choice at the time. Plan B really does make me wonder ... I mean, you're actually pushing the WS at the OP and cutting them off from all your support, they get angry. I know Steve needed me, he said many times in the last two contacts ... he didn't actually say he needed me just that he tried calling me many times and I would not talk to him. He called for a reason, and I don't think it was just to check on me. I think he wanted my input, my support.<P>So Allison, knowing every situation is diff, do you think you might want to consider going back to Plan A? How long did you do Plan A?<P>I've thought about the possiblity that Steve does belong with his OC but if the OW was someone diff, someone more normal, someone who wouldn't deliberately try and hurt someone out of jealousy or hatred thu revenge, then I'd say "okay", I'm letting go, this is what should be .... but she isn't a good person, she tries to portray herself that way, but she is devious and manipulative. I don't assume this, it's fact. I listened to her for several months on my H's voice pager, she was so obviously manipulating him that some times it was laughable, but in a sick twisted way. I'd wait to see how my H would react aft a voice page, thinking he would be disgusted and embarressed, but instead he fell hook, line and sinker to all of her ploys, I was dumbfounded at his reactions. Truly!<P>So, in essence I'm saying that if the OW was a stable truly loving human being, I wouldn't be so adamant about how wrong this is, even tho it is all the way wrong. It's just that I can see into the future and I see his life becoming miserable along with the poor kids, they are the single most important issue in this whole sorted mess. They are the ones who are going to suffer the most because the two adults in this situation are being so self absorbed and delusional.<P>If anything those two (Steve and Lana) should date ... for many years and not be so involved to where their building a family ... they don't know what the future holds regarding their relationship and they're dragging the kids along with them, making them experience all this horridness.<P>Plus, poor little Ryan (OC #2) he is being left out of everything. Steve does not call or see him and Ryan's mom is livid w/Steve that he's not participating in Ry's life. She said that when Steve and I were together that Ryan was with us every week-end and now it's seldom. And now Ryan is having probs in school, Steve told me that last night.<P>Okay, so here I go again, I blaming Lana for this, she wants Steve all to herself. She doesn't want Ryan around because, like me, he doesn't fit. Am I horrid for saying this?<P>Oh MAN, this is a long one, eh? Getting alot off my chest tonight.<P>Hey Allison, how'd the kids do with Trick or Treat? Did you get pics for us???? Hope so.<P>Love you AZ ... I'm so happy I've got to know you ... I hope you are well.<P>Jo

Resilient,<P> This is my second marriage, and this one's in trouble. The first thing I thought after my wife told me she'd had an affair, is "what's wrong with me? Why can't I make a marriage work!" My first wife left me for another man, and my present wife had an affair and got pregnant. It can't be everyone else, there has to be something wrong with me, right?<BR> There IS something wrong with me, I'm human. I make mistakes. I'm not perfect. I'm responsible for my actions.<BR> But I am NOT responsible for the actions of others. I have absolutely no control whatsoever over the actions and behaviors of others. Everyone is ultimately responsible for their own behavior!!<BR> We're not perfect. All we can do is the best we can do. <P> And you did.<P><BR> God bless you,<BR> <BR> <P>------------------<BR><P>Lynton

Hi Jo:<P>Well, here's the scoop. Here's a reference to the statutes on dissolving a marriage in Washington: <A HREF="http://search.leg.wa.gov/wslrcw/RCW%20%2026%20%20TITLE/RCW%20%2026%20.%2009%20%20CHAPTER/RCW%20%2026%20.%2009%20.030.htm" TARGET=_blank> Sec. 26.09.030 Domestic Relations Code </A><P>If I reading this right, a decree can't be entered until 90 days from the date the petition is filed or the responding party is served with process. In addition, the court has the option, if requested to do so by one of the parties, of referring the suit to the family court, ordering additional counseling for sixty days, and then having the final hearing. At that final date, there appears to be no way to stop the divorce if one party still wants the divorce.<P>At the very least, with no further stonewalling by either of the attorneys with legal shenigans, that could give you 5 months from the date of filing to work things out, depending on the court schedule.<P>That's better then the 60 days we have in Texas from start to finish with no required counseling at any time.<P>You can't stop service on yourself, but you can refuse to go along with the divorce, and ask for the counseling. The court doesn't have to grant it but it should if you can convince them it is for the best. Your attorney could possibly stretch this out for a year or so, so please don't even consider not consulting one on this.<P>I wiped out by this weekend so I'll try and get back to you tomorrow about how things are going. <P>Meanwhile, please don't give up on Steve. Just look at him as a stupid fool that believes that you can build a relationship on sex alone. As they say, people who don't learn from their mistakes are doomed to repeat them. Perhaps this time he will learn...different teacher, same lesson...time he learned, huh.<P>Angels and Prayers ~ Faye<P> <P> <p>[This message has been edited by buffy (edited November 01, 2000).]