My WW and I have been separated for 2 months now. I have read about Plan A, but I am not sure if it applies to me. I have a marriage coach and she does not advocate me talking to my wife about serious subjects like affairs just yet.

Our 10 year marriage was having issues due to both my and my wife's communication problems and as well as my depression. We never fought which is problem in of itself. For the past 11 months, I have been on a path of self discovery and learning how relationships work and don't work. I have changed my ways. I am the man I once was - and actually even better since I've learned so much and I still wish to learn and change more. If she were to come back to me, then we would not have the same issues we had before.

Unfortunately 2 months into our marriage counseling, she began having an emotional affair with a coworker. It started out as her venting to her mister about me and our marriage, which in hindsight she should have been venting about me to me and our marriage counselor. Eventually the EA turned physical, which is when I found out about it. She vowed to break it off. I believe she did.

But then we separated and then a month ago I got the feeling she had restarted the affair.

During this whole process, I made all the common mistakes: I tried to use logic and talk her out of the separation/divorce. I pleaded with her. Eventually I did my research and found out these things were making me appear unattractive.

I have since obtained the service of a marriage coach and as I mentioned before, she does not advocate a Plan A approach. We're already separated. My wife wants a divorce. So if I ask her not to see the other man (which I'm not sure she is or isn't), and I tell her if she doesn't, then I will divorce her, then that's going to make her happy because she wants a divorce. I feel like I am past the point of utilizing the Plan A approach. Plan A seems to be for those with wayward spouses who are not sure they want to divorce or be separated.

Instead my marriage coach advocates not talking about serious subjects, try to make a positive interactions whenever seeing my wife, wait until the affair is over, and in the meantime work on me and the kids.

Sometimes I stumble, but more or less, I have been doing pretty okay. Recently, we hung out together for Halloween and I planned a mini party for the kids and a few of their friends. The kids had fun, I had fun. My wife and I laughed and played together. It was a good evening. The next day, she thanked me for making Halloween fun.

So I get little victories like that, but I also get little defeats when I feel she is feeling guarded. My marriage coach says this will take a long time. I just need patience. So I feel like this may work, but I also get advised on another forum that I should take the Plan A/B route, but I'm not sure it applies to my particular case. It may not be tailored fit for my case.

Since this is the forum of the man who advocates Plan A/B, I thought I would ask if sometimes Plan A/B is not always the right method.

Hello hopeful, welcome to marriage builders. It doesn't sound like your marriage coach has experience or expertise in saving marriages as evidenced by the bad advice. The advice we give here comes from clinical psychologist, Dr Bill Harley. We have saved our marriages using his concepts. If you would like help saving your marriage, we can help you. But we won't advocate the kind of marriage wrecking advice you are getting from an unqualified counselor.

What has happened to your marriage is your wife has been having an affair much longer than you suspect. In order to pursue her affair and keep you off balance, she manufactured grievances to justify a separation to get you out. She wanted you to move out so she could pursue her affair in peace. By moving out, you make it 1000% times harder to save your marriage.

So, we can help you. But there is nothing we can do if you want to follow the bad advice of your "counselor."

P.s. Please change your screen name to something more unique as there are hundreds of similar names and we will never be able to distinguish you from the others.

I am at work now and can't spend much time here until tonight but if you are here to get guidance in the MB concepts, I will help you with a plan. If your goal is to follow the MCs "advice," I will move on. Thanks

Just so you know the marriage coach is also a psychologist with many years experience in saving marriages too. She is giving advice that is tailored made for me; whereas, the PlanA/B advice may not be tailored made for me. However, I am open to learn and listen to alternative approaches.

Is this a Divorce Busters coach? this sounds like their advice.

The problem with your strategy is that you are shopping around for the advice that provides what you want to hear. You are then mixing and matching the bits that suit you, and leaving out the rest.

The coach is telling you not to expose, and to wait for the affair to die. She is telling you not to talk directly about the affair to your wife - so you cannot demand that she end it. You cannot even tell her that you know it is back on again. The coach is also telling you not to expose to your children or her employers.

The other forum told you to expose this workplace affair to your wife's boss, but you don't want to do that. Some people on the other forum have told you to expose to your children, but you don't like that advice as it goes against what your coach has told you, so you have not done that either. The other forum is also NOT giving you Plan A advice; they are telling you to drop your wife and turn your back on the marriage, while she is having the affair. They re telling you that you cannot "nice" her back. You are not convinced that turning away from your wife will bring her back to you, so you have come here, thinking that we will have the magic bullet that brings her back to you.

Here, we will tell you to expose the affair in writing to the managers at their company, and to tell your children. Will you do that, if you wouldn't do it before?

We will tell you to confront OM and tell your wife you know she is seeing him again, but also tell her that if and when she finishes the affair, the two of you can have a marriage better than it was before - and we will show you how to achieve that. She'll need to get away from that job, for a start, and you'll probably need to move house. We will tell you to expose, also, to friends and family of both you and your wife, and to the other man's family. Will you do all that?

There is no point whatsoever coming here to try and draw out a debate on whether Dr Harley's methods are right for you. This is Dr Harley's site, and all the regular posters endorse his advice wholeheartedly, because we've used it, and we know it works.

You need to pick an approach and follow it through.

Thanks for the response!

Right now I am sticking with the advice with the marriage coach, but I am still researching my options to see what I need to do if I go too long without any results. I'm still in the lost and confused phase and am still researching all that I can.

Someone in the other forum did mention using Plan A, so that is what I am here to see if Plan A is for me. It sounds like you don't recommend Plan A, but to go straight to Plan B.

1st off, I don't know for certain the affair has started back up. I highly suspect it is, but I don't know for certain, so before I do anything, I imagine I would need to get proof: check text messages or hiring a PI.

I'm not sure I would expose the affair to my kids. They are 8 and 5 and seem too young to be exposed to that.

You mentioned confronting the OM. What exactly is entailed with that? What is the point of confronting the OM?

What exactly do I say to friends and OM's family about the affair?

I didn't imply any such thing. You have completely misunderstood.

You need to take the initiative and read Dr Harley's work for your self. Start with the free materials available on this website. Read What Are Plan A and Plan B? and then read every article on affairs, in the Articles section.

At the same time, order the book Surviving an Affair. You can buy it from the bookshop here, and from Amazon, where you can get the e-book.

Surviving an Affair is your guide to killing the affair and rebuilding your marriage.

How would I write to friends and family about the affair?

Something like the following?


"As you may know, my wife and I are separated. We were having some issues. We were working on those issues until she started an affair with [NAME], a colleague at work. Any chance of us reconciling were dashed when that happened because now she is in an endorphin-high fog which comes along with a new relationship. Everything seems great in the new relationship and things can be rewritten as all or mostly bad in the marriage. I have learned a lot throughout this experience and now know what it takes to be a great husband. I want nothing more to make her and our family happy for the rest of our lives together. Family and friends are often called upon during an intervention of a loved one who is hurting themselves and others with their drug habit. An affair is very like a drug-like experience. So I am calling on you to help confront her. Please use your influence to recommend she stop seeing [NAME] and start working on the marriage again. I don't wish to enable her bad behavior any longer. I love my wife and I believe our marriage and our family would be stronger than ever if we worked through this. "

Read this Exposure 101

Also this, Exposing to Children

WE give advice that is tailored for marriages in crisis based on Dr Harley's concepts as outlined in Surviving an Affair. I am open to helping you if you are serious about following THIS program. We are not here to help you with other programs from unqualified marriage counselors. If you want help with this program, we will help. But if you are shopping programs, as it sounds, there is no reason to post here.

Plan A is for the betrayed spouses who want to save their marriage. Dr Harley does not advocate separation because it only greatly increases the chances of divorce. IT is a strategic mistake. Essentially, you stepped aside so the OM could take your place. A big mistake. Separation does not help, it harms, unless there is abuse.

We would advise that you move home and go into Plan A.


Another strategic mistake. Being complacent about your wife's affair and the separation gives the impression you don't care. All it does is further estrange her while the affair becomes more entrenched.


That is good, but without addressing the real problem, her affair, your marriage goes no further.


Plan A is the right method if you are interested in saving your marriage. The things you are doing will not achieve that. It is pretty apparent your MC does not have a plan. Enabling is not a plan.

"We would advise that you move home and go into Plan A. "


She moved out and unfortunately I let her. I couldn't force her to stay but I could have made it harder on her. She asked me to go away with the kids when she was moving out and I did that. I should have stayed. If she said that I was traumatizing the kids by letting them see her move out, then I should have said that no, she was traumatizing them for moving out.

I didn't know what to do.

But the past is the past. Can I still do Plan A if she is no longer in the house?

Yes, call her and ask her on a date.

But you need to stick to a plan. If you arent planning to follow the plan laid out by Dr. Harley, you are wasting your time and brain space.

Yes! But Plan A means exposure of her affair. My fear is that this has gone on so long that it will be hard to turn around. The longer you wait to do anything, the more entrenched the affair becomes. You have a small chance, but it will involve taking a more serious approach to your marriage. That means exposing the affair and doing everything you can to run off the OM.

I will also add that opinion shopping will not help you in any way.

Hopeful,
Dr. Harley has saved thousands of marriages, and this site has a lot of great resources about infidelity that you should read. Once you read them, you will shake your head and understand that your situation is very common and Dr. Harley has a non-nonsense and common sense approach to properly dealing with infidelity. Though you have invested in a marriage coach, there is a reason you are here: You are looking for better answers. You landed in the right place.

Please consider taking the following steps:

1) Read all of the links on the side bar of the Marriage Builders homepage that fall under the category "infidelity."
2) Buy a copy of Surviving an Affair and read it immediately.
3) Ask the moderators to move this thread to "Surviving and Affair."
4) Listen to the advice you are getting from the people who respond to your posts. They have helped so many make it through horrendous marriage trials.
5) Dump the marriage coach.
6) Optional: Write in to Dr. Harley's Marriage Builders Radio program and he may answer your questions giving you some direct feedback and instructions on how to approach your situation. Here is how it you can do that: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4200_radio.html

Best of luck!

Have you told your children yet?

I have not told the children that mommy got herself a boyfriend. We have only told them that we both did things that were not becoming of a husband and wife.

Did you have a question about the program?

I am sorry for interferring, but I couldn't help my self. I was in the same position like you. I was resisting exposure advices and I made my wifes emotional affair go physical. You have no idea how far the affair can go if you are late for exposure. Please listen to advices. Please don't do the mistakes that I have done. Read everything CARREFULLY about exposure and Plan A. And act ASAP. This is a very narrow and painful road. But I believe it is essential for your marital recovery. The later you act the more they go far and the more pain you experience.

I like the success stories, but I can't get myself to pull the trigger. It just feels wrong. It might work, but it might also go sideways and backfire. I don't think I'd be able to look at myself in the mirror. I cannot use the ends to justify the means. Maybe I could tell a few people: I've already told her immediate family, I could possibly tell 2 other of her friends, and maybe the OM's parents, but that's it. But I'm afraid that there are equal number of success stories for every terrible story. I'd like to pull the trigger and tell people of the affair, but I won't feel right. I'm sorry.


p.s. I can't even get myself to snoop on her text messages, even though I want to. I'm afraid what I'll find and I'll start hating her.

Don't be sorry to us, we are in recovered marriages (or have personal recovery). You are the one who is willing to suffer through enabling an affair indefinitely. We are sorry to hear that you are an enabler who makes decisions based on fear and not reason. We know it will bring you death by a thousand cuts.

First off, feelings are not truth, but I suspect you don't know the difference. You are very driven by your emotions and typically, folks who can't put aside their emotions and follow a plan don't make it. I would suggest you are in that category.

And no, a trickle exposure won't help, it will cause more harm than good.



Would you agree that you are very driven by your emotions? That is unusual in grown males and will be a major hindrance to recovery.

My suggestion would be to make a decision to put aside your emotions and allow your logic and reason to dictate your thinking. Your emotions are not serving you well.

I am very much driven by logic - much to the the consternation of my wife, actually. Logically, I am thinking that there are many instances on this forum where people saved their marriages using the Plan A/B model. But logically there has to be many instances where Plan A/B didn't work. What is the percentage of the plan working vs not working? Logically I am thinking if this doesn't work, it would make sense that friends/family/my wife would see my actions as immature. It may complicate co-parenting and make the divorce that much worse. I am also worried that this plan may work for many people but it may not be tailored fit for me and my wife and our personalities.

One of her complaints of me was that I didn't listen to her - that I always thought I was right and had to get my way. That is true in many instances but that is partly because she didn't speak up. Plus, I think the affair fog has made her think that things were always like that and I didn't care to make her happy and that's not true. I've told her that that now that I know what she was feeling, I would be a psychopath not to take steps to ensure she has more of a voice in the marriage. If it weren't for the affair, then she might agree.

However, if I were to do Plan A/B, then it may solidify her thinking that I must have everything my way - that I don't listen to her.

Logically, I feel like I don't have enough info. What are the rates of success and failure. What does failure look like?

Also logically, I don't even know if the affair is still going on. Maybe she already came to the conclusion that the affair wouldn't work out. In the summer, he (36) had expressed a desire to eventually want kids and she (39) wasn't sure if she wanted more kids. So maybe the affair is no more. I don't know. I could probably do some snooping to find out for sure, but I'm afraid of the other things I may find which may affect how I look and react to her. This last point is probably driven by emotions.

The chances are 50/50 for Plan A and 100% for Plan B. However, your odds of success on your current path are extremely low as you can see. Logically you can see your own path has not worked.


Logically, our objective is to save your marriage, not to gain/lose approval of those who have no investment.


Enabling her affair is more likely to lead to divorce. Our goal is to save your marriage. You are obviously not the best judge of what should be "tailored fit" for you and your wife.

You have no experience or expertise at this and have impaired objectivity. You are the least objective person on this thread.

Anyway, if you decide you want help, fine, we are here. If not, then I wish you well.

What is the percentage of success of your current plan?

I am seeing what MAY be improvements while I am following my current plan. She is allowing me to hang out with both her and the kids more. Before she was concerned if that was giving false hope to the kids or me. She is allowing me to joke around and talk to her more. It's very small improvements. I still feel her being guarded and having her wall up. But little by little I feel like I'm chipping away at her wall.

You are right. I'm not very objective. That is why I am seeing answers outside of myself. Everyone has their biases. I asked my coach about her plan versus the Plan A/B plan and she herself admitted that she is biased. She has seen more success with my current plan and she has seen things go sideways with a plan like Plan A/B.

Right now, the current plan seems like it may be working. It's possible it's not. In the back of my mind, I fear that I'm falling in the friend/co-parenting category. I try not to fall into that category by every once in awhile making a sexual innuendo, or a comment that a friend/co-parent would not make but a husband would.

Here's the thing about which plan is successful or not, you need to define 'success.' If you define success as simply staying married, it is possible that her affair die a natural death and she simply decides it is easier to stay married.

But Dr Harley's plan includes marital recovery from affairs. Staying married isn't even the half of it. Recovering from a devastating affair and having a healthy loving marriage is not an easy task, and there is a very narrow path to follow to achieve that successful outcome.

It starts with exposure. Even if you just kept being nice and enabling, and her OM left her or their affair died a natural death, the end result would not be SUCCESS. It would just be marriage at all cost.

Your enabling in that situation would allow the deception to continue, as you continue to keep the secret of this devastating situation to everyone around you. This enabling of deception doesn't just perpetuate her affair. It also perpetuates her wayward state of mind. The fact that she never had to face up to the affair will allow her to continue in the affair fog, long after the affair is over. This makes it easy to start another one, and definitely makes it next to impossible for you to recover from the affair or create an integrated loving marriage.

Furthermore, the plan for recovery is a narrow path, which includes putting precautions into place that would prevent more affairs. Things like never having contact with OM again, having full transparency. If you just simply sweep the affair under the rug, how willing do you think she will be to follow a recovery plan?

So I challenge you to rethink your definition of success. EVEN IF your inexperienced plan leads to staying married, when there will be no actual affair recovery, is that success to you?

You are posting in the divorce section.

We don't view this as improvement because we understand the dynamic of infidelity. Every wayward wants to be "friends" with their spouse so she wlll feel less guilty about her destructive behavior. Our idea of "improvement" would be a reconciled marriage with a plan to a) affair proof the marriage and b) create romantic love.


Then you don't need our help, do you? Best of luck to you.

unwritten: that is a fair point.

However, my plan does include a recovery from the affair. We will need to work with the coach. She will need to quit her job. Most likely, we may end up moving. Her siblings and folks already know about the affair, so if we move, then her coworkers and friends do not need to know since they will not be major influencers at that point.

In the end, I define success as getting my wife to start to date me, having her fall back in love with me, having her move back in with me, working together and with a therapist to improve our communication skills, setting up a plan to continue to date my wife on a daily/weekly/yearly basis. I have learned a lot these past few months on what I should have been doing all these years. If given the opportunity, I firmly believe we can make our marriage stronger. Statistically, that is usually what happens after an affair happens and the couple decides to reconcile.

Just a suggestion, why not write Dr Harley at his radio show and get his advice? (It is free) He would completely oppose the plan put forth by your marriage coach and he can explain why. He would tell your coach that "it's hard to save a marriage when you are an enabler." This had been our long experience on this forum. It won't hurt you to get the perspective of an experienced professional. His email address is mbradio@marriagebuilders.com

P.s. You will find that your wife will do none of those things you wish for as long as there is an active affair because her lovebank is closed to you. As long as that is the case your efforts will avail nothing other than a "friendship." I am certain you have detected that her lovebank is closed to you.

The MB program is the most logic plan you will find (if you find a better one please inform me, I love logic).

The goal is to recover from an affair with the smallest amount of damage. The goal of exposure is to kill the affair. The alternative, waiting for the affair to die a natural death, will do more damage.

It might succeed eventually, but there will be more damage to recover from. Every step of the program is better than any alternative.

Why are you here if you want a "tailor made" approach and don't agree with Plan A/Plan B? Sounds like you have a good cheerleader "marriage coach" for doing your current plan (which has led you to divorce).

What is the point?

Before I started to seeing my marriage coach, I was doing everything wrong. I was using logic to explain it makes sense to stay together, why she'd eventually fall back in love with me if she were to try. Basically I was telling her that she was wrong and I have the right answer. She didn't want to hear something like that. The marriage coach helped me to stop the bleeding.

I agree that if the affair is still going on, then her love bank is closed to me. The plan is to wait out the affair, but I agree that the danger in that approach is that I'm enabling her bad behavior just as she had once been enabling my bad behavior by not saying anything. That is why I am here. The Plan A/B does have some logic behind it. Both approaches make sense. That's is why I am conflicted.

p.s.
If I were to do Plan A/B, then I would 1st need to confirm that an affair is still going on. I could snoop on her, but I'm afraid I'd see her talking poorly about me behind my back and the conversation may be just a snapshot of what she thinks but she may actually think other (positive) things about me which she may not express over text.

I could hire a PI to tail her, but that could be expensive. Plus if I pick the wrong week to tail her, then she may not meet up with the guy that week and I'll have a wrong sense that she's no longer seeing him.

How would you propose I verify that she is still seeing him?

Dr Harley's Plan A for men recommends filling EN's and avoiding lovebusters and being the better option for 6 months or more. The difference between this and your enabling approach, is that it is coupled with fighting the affair.

You should be doing everything in your power to run this dirtbag off and end this affair. Sitting by the sidelines while your wife runs around with another man, not doing everything you can to stop that destructive behavior, just shows a complete lack of care for her. I would feel very uncared for if my husband just sat back and watched me walk out the door to another man without fighting for me.

I would hire a PI. Be strategic and have him tail her when she is most likely to be seeing the OM. They are usually very skilled at getting good intel in a short time.

And she is saying bad things about you. That is classic wayward behavior. You should expect that and not be "afraid."

Did you see my suggestion to reach out to Dr Harley?

Do they still work together?
She is still at the job where she had the affair and it hasn't been exposed. And you wonder if maybe the affair is still active.

unwritten: I tried to woo her and that was actually driving her away. I was giving her flowers, giving her cups of flavored coffee, etc. I would casually touch her shoulder to keep physical contact with her. I would call her for few minutes during the day to tell her something. All of this was driving her away.

I've dialed it down a lot. I try to talk to her whenever possible but if I sense that her wall is up, then I focus on the kids. I've called her at night sometimes about the kids and we've had some pretty good conversations that occasionally strayed away from the kids. Sometimes I stay a bit longer at her place when dropping off the kids. So I am competing, it's just way dialed down from what I was doing before.

One EN that I need to fulfill that hadn't fulfilled when we were together is to show her that I hear her - that she has a voice. I need to find a way to get her to vent to me, I need for her to make a decision together and compliment/get on board with that decision, or show her another way that I can fulfill this emotional need.

But as far as driving this "dirtbag" away - the thing is I don't know for sure if she is still seeing him. How do I verify this?

Yes, I did see your note about sending an email to the radio program.

Yes, she is still working at the same job with the OM but it is possible that they decided that they are at different points in their lives. He wants kids and she doesn't and/or thinks she is too old to have kids anymore.

Not sure how you came to that conclusion about the affair since you don't know the facts. The fact that they work together means the affair is still active. The belief that they can work together and recover from the affair is like believing an alcoholic can go to the bar and drink every day but sober up by calling his drinks "business drinks."

The kid conflict would never interfere with an affair. Affairs are typically not rational. Its not like these are rational people who are interviewing for marriage partners. They are fogged out waywards who are high on an affair. It is the same dynamic as alcohol or drug addiction.

Another suggestion would be to read the book Surviving an Affair so you can learn about the dynamics of an affair. Do you have this book? Dr Harley will give you a free book if your email is read on his radio show.

You say you're a logical person but then you are posting here and I don't see that you understand MB concepts at all. I consider myself a logical person and I read all of the articles on this site before posting on the forum. My questions had to do with implementing the MB program.

Affairs do NOT work that way. Dr Harley views affairs as an addiction and requires exposure and NC in order to recover.

That's great! I'm sure the OM would be super happy to hear that while he is bringing his A game, you are bringing your C game.

Of course she doesn't WANT you to fill her EN's or do nice things for her. It is much easier to have an affair and divorce when your spouse is being an uncaring jerk, than it is when he is being a great guy. Her wall is up because she is having an affair, as has been stated here many times.

You need to pull up your big girl pants and snoop.

You keep mentioning co-parenting. I think you need to read up on parallel parenting.
Parrallel Parenting

My wife of 10 years has been having an affair for about a year now. It only got physical about 6 months ago. I've been reluctant to reveal the affair because I wasn't sure she was still having the affair after I found out about it. Because we are now separated (5 months), it was difficult to know for sure if the affair was still going on. We have 2 small kids (ages 8 and 5) and I would like to fix my marriage not only because I love my wife but because I want my kids to live under a roof with two loving parents who love each other.

I would like to reveal the affair. I will contact my father and sister in law (who already know about the affair but I never asked them for help). Because this is a workplace affair and the other man is the son of the owner, I will call my wife's boss and tell him and ask for his help. There are other friends and family that I can contact. Do I call or email them? I can email some of her coworkers but they probably will be supportive of my wife and not me and my cause.

Should I create a facebook post for everyone else to see?

I am reluctant to tell many people because we aren't very close to many people and if I reveal the affair to friends that are friends out of convenience (because their kids are friends with our kids), I feel like that will put them in an awkward position, they will side with my wife, and it may anger my wife.

What is the best way to reveal the affair? Who should I NOT reveal the affair to?

Threads merged. Please stick to one thread.

Did you read the Exposure 101 thread?

As you were told last time, your only hope at this point is a do a full and thorough exposure. Your wife has already moved out and is divorcing you. You were reluctant to take the advice and expose and now a couple more months have passed and this affair is even more entrenched. You do not have the luxury of making decisions based on your FEAR and emotions. You cannot make decisions based on the 'what ifs.'

Read the Exposure 101 thread. Get your exposure targets in order, expose to everyone all at once to create a tsunami effect. Include your children in the exposure, they need to know that it is OM who is breaking up their family.

Expose to coworkers and anyone at the workplace in a position of power. If the OM is the owner's son, it is possible the owner will try to brush it under the rug to protect him (or not, you don't know how he will react so of course you need to expose to him). It is even possible the owner already knows (again, or not). You need to expose to other people in power or coworkers so this cannot be brushed under the rug as easily.

You are reluctant because you are afraid. You are letting emotions run the show.

You do not know how people will react. It is possible that someone you thought would be an ally, instead supports the affair. It is also possible that someone you thought would support the affair, will actually be an ally and put pressure on your wife to end it. This is why you cast a wide net, and in your case I think it is your last ditch effort as this affair has been enabled for a very long time.

Are you going to actually expose this time lik you were told when you were originally here?
Read this and this will answer all your exposure questions.
Exposure 101

it's hard to do it. Logically it makes sense that it would end the affair, but at the same time it seems wrong.

Also my therapist advises against it. And now my divorce lawyer advises against revealing the affair as it might be used against me in determining custody for what is best for the children.

Also, I just found out that my wife's Other Man MAY (unsure right now) be seeing a 2nd woman.

So what do you want to hear? If you don't want MB advice, ask the moderators to close this thread.

More time has passed and yet you continue to let FEAR (not logic) drive your decisions.

Hey its your life to live, you can do as you want. I'm not sure what kind of help you want from this forum though, when you have chosen to enable this affair straight into divorce court rather than fight for your marriage.

When a therapist says the approach is bad because it will be detrimental to saving the marriage AND more importantly bad for the kids, I am using logic.

When a highly respected divorce lawyer says that doing this may cause harm to my case (assuming my wife doesn't reconcile with me which seems norm for the course for most people posting here), then I am using logic.

I really don't appreciate your disrespecting attitude. You can cut people some slack since we're all here with high emotions.

My point for posting again is that I have new info. The Other man may be dating someone else in addition to my wife. What do you all think of that?

Divorce is detrimental to your marriage. Adultery and lies are bad for your children.

Dr Harley is a clinical psychologist who has specialized in affairs for 45 years. I would say following his advice is logical.

It is also logical to think that lies and deceit (versus telling the truth), and a family falling apart with parents who divorce, is NOT good for kids.

Thinking that lying to kids and enabling an affair while your family falls apart is good for them is NOT logical. Sorry.

Your divorce attorney job is to facilitate a divorce. If that is your goal too (vs reconciliation or doing the right thing or telling your kids the truth), than yes, it is logical for you to follow his/her advice.

You are welcome to ignore my posts if you don't like them. I am taking the time to post to you because you say you want reconciliation, yet you are doing the exact opposite necessary to achieve that. People here posting are doing so because they CARE about you and your marriage. How much good would it do you for any poster to pat you on the back and say its going to be OK, when the reality is you will soon be divorced because of your inaction. That is not something anyone here is going to do.

I think it will not make any difference in your situation.

Good luck.

I wonder how many marriages your therapist has actually saved? If you were using logic you would follow Dr. Harley's Plan and has been very successful. That is logical.

We see over and over that Lawyers advise against exposure because they want their job to be easy and that requires them to do as little as work as possible. They don't want to advise anything that might help keep the marriage together because then they lose a client. Is that logical?

Read this Exposing to Children

She has saved a lot. But the difference is that she knows more of my details and how my wife could potentially react. There is logic in there too.

The reason why I linger here is because I can see the logic in this approach too. Both approaches can be logical. It's not always so binary, not so black and white.


I don't believe the lawyer is advising this because he doesn't want to work as hard. I truly believe he feels that it would endanger the custody issue. By how much? I do not know.

I have been reading the forum thread on how to tell the kids and they speak of telling the kids in a matter of fact way without bad mouthing the wife. One person suggested writing down exactly what you say so the judge can see you want to be honest with the kids. Though I'm not sure legally documenting what you say will have any legal sway with a judge. The posters on these threads are not legal experts so I have to take any advice with a grain of salt.

However, I do appreciate the advice.

TheHopefulOne, the purpose of our free forum is to help posters use and implement the Marriage Builders program. The advice they are giving you comes from Dr. Bill Harley, the owner of Marriage Builders, so if you plan to dismiss that advice, there is no point in posting here. Your comment that you should take it with a grain of salt is very disrespectful to the forum host and the volunteers who are taking their time to post to you. If you are seeking legal advice, then you should consult with your attorney. We offer marriage advice here.

If you don't intend to take the advice and use these concepts, we will lock this thread.