A brief update - Marriage Builders® Forums

It is two months until my D is final. While many here do not believe me when I say this, This is not really what I wanted, nor is this the way I wanted things to happen.I have been off of work for five (5) weeks now due to severe depression. I am on medication to combat the dpression, but it does not seem to be helping. I have seen everything that I thought I valued crumble before my eyes. I am in counseling, but that too seems to be doing very little good. I am supposed to go back to work next Monday, but I honestly don't know if I can.My marriage is over. the majority of me is not upset over this, but there is a part of me which is torn apart by the fact that I was unable to make the marriage work. I have all but lost my daughter in this entire process. . . I get visitation with her. I am paying child support, which is high enough that I may not be able to continue to live where I am now.Nothing that I seem to do or say comes out right. There are times when I very seriously wonder why I am even trying anymore. In two months a mojor portion of my life wil have officially ended. I will be alone, truly alone for the first time in a very long time.While I am not upset that my marriage is over, I am upset that I was not strong enough to make it work. I have spent a great deal of time evaluating myself, my beliefs and my actions over the past 9 years. . . I don't see where there is anything during that time period that I can be proud of. I don't know that I have ever really done anything to be proud of, and that is very discouraging.Well, I guess it is time for me close. Thank You for listening.

ES......My aunt always reminds me this: "God don't make junk". (((ES)))

Oh ES, I'm so glad you came back for an update!!Listen, YOU were very strong in so many ways! This is not a failure of YOU as a person, but a failure of the marriage, which is TWO people.I am very, very SORRY [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] for your continued pain. You are doing the right things with the meds and therapy, but it takes time. I know how much you want to be able to smile again, and see some joy in your life. I have felt the same way too...ES, take care of YOU now. Take good care of your daughter when you see her. You have friends here, ES. Please remember that, and visit us when you can. You are missed.

TNT, new_beginning -- Thank You for your concerns.I am having a very bad day today. Nothing really has caused it, other than my own mind.I have been crying most of the day, and can not even come up with a reason why.I am tired of hurting, I am tired of the pain. . . .I am just plain tired. . .

ESBelieve me, I have been there - BIG TIME. I know how bad days are. I don't know if this is any comfort, but God does count all our tears - and there is a verse somewhere that says that there may be tears all night, but joy comes in the morning.Tears are not always bad - although it hurts! Actually, they have found that when we tear our body makes some kind of natural morphine - to help us out. When I heard that I was surprised.What kind of meds are you taking? Should you call doctor and tell them that they aren't 'cutting it?' I started on Paxil a month and 2 days ago - and it helps - but it just takes a long time to 'kick' in. My dr. told me that if I have anymore heart palpitations or long crying spells to go to the ER.(((ES))) NB is right, you are grieving - over the loss of the marriage. Just because you chose divorce doesn't mean that we don't still grieve over the loss. (I hope that didn't come out with mixed message - because that is not intended.) It is sad to have hopes and dreams and to put so much energy into a relationship - and to go what you went through in recovery - only to find you couldn't continue. It is okay to grieve over that loss, that doesn't mean you have to reconcile. hugs to you.
TNT

Oh yes, I have been there too ES, as has David, and my new H, and his ex... whenEVER there is an end to a marriage, especially a long-term marriage, there is GRIEVING, my friend.ES, I'll share a little secret with you... it's been over two years since David moved out for the last time... over two years since I was responsible for his happiness... and I am remarried... yet there are days that I think of David and get tears in my eyes. I miss him. I miss the man who was my friend, my "other half," for nearly 20 years. I see something that reminds me of him and I want to call out to him, "Look, see this?"... but he isn't there. I KNOW HOW YOU FEEL. And this is just the beginning for you. I HEAR YOU.I hope there comes a day, not too far away, that hopeful will realize that in order to co-parent your daughter, you two need to be kind and fair to each other... that helps... David and I have run the gammot (sp?) of emotion, but have settled into something fairly friendly... although there are still problems sometimes.The thing is -- this takes time, ES. It just DOES.(((((ES)))))

TNT -- I am on two different medications for depression, have been for about two months. They don't seem to be doing a lot of good right now.I have been crying off and on for hours today, and I can't seem to really stop myself. I see my counselor tomorrow, but don't see my doctor until Monday, and he is on vacation this week, so I can't even get a hold of him until next week.I wish I knew what it was that has set me off, but I don't. . . I just feel like my life is crumbling before my eyes.

ES, you can learn a little bit about the medications and how they are affecting other people at this forum, if you want. http://depressionforums.com/forum/ikonboard.cgiYou don't know what set off the crying episodes? Would you like to talk about it a bit? Maybe we can look at this from a different vantage point, if you want. On days that you are doing okay - what do you suppose it is that helps?We are here for you, ES. You aren't alone.TNT

TNT -- I have actually never felt more alone in my entire life. I've never felt so unloved, or like such a failure as I do right now. I don't think I have ever been as scared as I am right now.I don't like the feeling of emptyness. It has been so long since anything has gone right in my life. I've tried talking with my family about this, but they don't seem to understand how deep this inside me. How hollow I feel inside. How worthless I feel.The only thing I seem to be any good for, is giving money to my STBX. What kind of life is that.

ES, did you read what I wrote about, about David? You are NORMAL, THIS is normal... However, the meds may need to be adjusted. You are grieving...Does my being here bother or hurt you? If so, please tell me and I'll back off... I really do care.

new_beginning -- Your being here does NOT bother me at all. You and TNT have been the only ones in recent memory to even give a hoot about what I am feeling or going through. So, no, you do not need to leave.I am just so beat up right now, and I really don't know why. I have no other real outlet, and felt that if I came here, at least I could try to get a little bit of it out.I am just so scared.

ES, so much of your energies used to be devoted to your marriage relationship, and your family. Now you a math formula to come to terms with; (ES - Hopeful) - full time parenting = ES + child support + part time parenting + grief.It IS a crappy formula. But - that formula isn't forever. ES, part of what happened is this, (in math terms) (ES + Hopeful) = unhealthy marriage

Now, if you subtract ES from both sides of that equation you have: Hopeful = unhealthy marriage.Now you have to create a new equation.ES = ????? That is part of the rebuilding.But to get there, there is going to be grieving period. BUT that is temporary and a process. ES, God don't make junk. (((ES)))
TNT

Things just get better and better. . . I just got off the phone with the IRS, trying to find out when I would get my tax return. . . I was told that my return is in the Errors Department, but the person I talked to could not tell me why it was there. I have to wait and call back on Friday. . . . .Is it too much to ask for something, anythin to go right for a change? I don't know how much more of this I can take.

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Empty Shell:
Is it too much to ask for something, anythin to go right for a change? I don't know how much more of this I can take.<hr></blockquote>Boy ES, I have asked this question MANY times myself over the last few months. If you find the answer, will you let me know too?? [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] Now that I'm on the "other side" of the last debilitating depression, I can honestly say that I don't know how I survived, I just DID. I don't have a magic answer, although I do believe that praying, journalling, therapy, meds, and embracing the FEELINGs do help. I wish I could find the words to let you know you will survive. You MUST survive. Your LIFE is worth something -- YOU ARE WORTH SOMETHING. (((((ES)))))

new_beginning -- <blockquote>quote:<hr>You MUST survive. Your LIFE is worth something -- YOU ARE WORTH SOMETHING.<hr></blockquote> I wish that I could say you are right. . .I just really doesn't feel that way.I have had two friends that I had been able to turn to during all of this. . . .One of them I have not heard a single word from in months, though I know that they have talked with my STBX. The other is unable to help me.I think my screen name fits me better now than it ever has.

As an after thought. . . .I am supposed to have surgery in two weeks, to correct a deviated septum. . . supposedly rather normal with no complications expected.. . . . How do I undergo general anestesia (sp?)when I feel as depressed as I do?

ES,
I do not you or your story but from the membership number I can conclude you fought for your marriage so long. I believe it's not your foult you didn't succeed. I didn't understand why your child is not with you.Maybe my story can give you some hope about that. My OD was 18 when we separated and she chose to livre with father and his lover at the three floor house. Cause of that my YD (then 10) got a small two rooms flat.After 1.5 yrs my OD came to live with us into one small room with her sister, with less money than ever and left her so rich father. Maybe the reason was not exactly love for me but the fact that OW became his wife and will became a mother of a baby in about a month-but that is not important. The most important fact is that three of us are together. We are still getting used to each other, very slow, but step by step we go on.
After more than 2yrs I still cry almost every day, struggle with a money problem looking at ex and his new wife not knowing what to do with money, but that is another story.The hardest thing is that I still love him and unfortunately still feels like you: worthless, lonely.....but have found so much support here that despite of all that I feel a bit better than before.Please stay here with us and have hope that better days WILL come.
Love

just got through trying to take a nap, hoping that would help to calm me down.It didn't work. I tossed and turned, kept waking up in a panic, like I had heard a strange noise. or something. I almost never remember my dreams, so I really don't know what kept waking me.This is getting so hard to handle.

Empty Shell,Knowing your story, this post made me sad. I can understand your sadness and grief. TNT and NB have given you some great pearls of wisdom. I will only say that I wish you happier and brighter times ahead. Keep taking your meds and know that you are not alone. Many folks care about you - we may be faceless, but our hearts and thoughts are there for you nonetheless. Put your life in God's hands. Pray for peace and happiness and in His time, it WILL come to you.Keeping you in my thoughts and prayers, Desiree

Dear ES,I too came to see how you were doing. I am sad that you are feeling well yet but glad that you are sharing with us. Hugz to you and your family. I disagree about your feeling worthless though I understand how you may feel that way. Am I confusing? Sorry, I don't mean to be. Just know that there are those here (many actually) that do care. You have made an impact in our lives though we may be faceless ones. You have had positive and will continue to have a positive impact with those all around you and those far away. For those reasons and many more your life is not worthless. We can try to convince you in a loving way, the 2x4 sarcastic way or just try to make you laugh. We know we can't take all your pain away but maybe, just maybe someone's small suggestion will work for you. Time and patience is hard when you have been hanging on for so long, but ES, it will come. Can you trust me on that? If not me how about NB and TNT? They are very good people. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] I will come back to see you laters. ....ok? Hugz,
L.

Hello ES,
I am so sorry you are in such pain.
You are a very special person that has been put into a tough spot, but it WILL pass. Give yourself some time to grieve the end of this chapter before opening the next one in your life.
I hate to be the one to break the news to you, but antidepressants are not cure-alls. They don't make the pain and grief go away, even in 2 months. They certainly help, but you have to seek guidance and counseling also. You have to look within and heal yourself.
ES, you have always been level-headed, yet sensitive with a very good heart. Let this be your guide now. Your attribures are true gifts that are always with you. USE THEM!
Sending positive energy, prayers and hugs your way, cl

betrayed and desperate, Roll Me Away, Orchid & cl -- Thank you for your replies. I appreciate your attempts at consoling me, I really do. I have been dealing with all of this off and on for almost five (5) years now, in fact in three (3) weeks it will be exactly five (5) years ago that all of this garbage started.One day I will have to explain to my daughter everything that has gone on between her mother and I. Until that day comes, I get to see my daughter three weekends a month. She lives 65 miles from me, so I do not get any other real interaction with her. Phone calls require a long distance bill. . . yet another bill that I really can not afford.I have stopped crying for the time being, but am frankly afraid to go to sleep. I am afraid of waking up with that panic feeling I have been experiencing. It's just about midnight here. I have an appointment at 9am, yet I am afraid to lay down and go to sleep.Am I simply over-reacting? I really don't know. I just no that there is nothing in my life right now that is going anywhere close to right. Everything I seem to touch falls apart. I am so scared of just about everything right now, that I don't know what to do.

when all else fails, and just cannot seem to find balance, stability, peace....it seems at least one advice is to do physical stuff, work out, run/jog, swim .....whatever, do it till you are wore out, rest, then do it some more...at the very least you are doing something good for your body, and takes almost zero thinking/feeling. I told you before, and want to remind you again...remember the future is always unwritten, each day is a new one, and the beginning of the rest of your life...be the best dad you can now under the circumstances, it counts, and your daughter will see and feel things from you besides what you actually do, so attitude is important. Also (you can overlook this part, since I am dysfunctionally optimistic by nature) you now have lots of opportunities to explore, learn new skills, change directions in life, even explore what makes people feel the way you feel...another thing I think works, is volunteer a little of your time in some setting where people are really in need, this often helps shift your perspective of your life back to a little more stability.....you have many years ahead ES, and while this will always be a dark time, eventually your life will be good, and this will fade, time is the great healer, if we let it, and use it wisely. Good luck

Just wondering how you are doing today, and if you made it to that counseling appointment?I pray today is a better day for you. TNT

Well, I went to my counseling appointment this morning. We talked about what has been going, about how I felt and reacted yesterday.He told me pretty much the same things that I have been told here. He gave me some ideas to try in order to break this hold of depression.We'll see if it does any good.When I got home, I checked my mail and found something telling me that I had failed to follow a court order, and that I could be held in contempt if I did not call them. . . . .I was never given any information concerning this court order, so you can imagine that I was pretty angry.I have to attend a four (4) hour parenting class next week, and I have to pay more than $50 for the priviledge. . . and of course, I have to drive 50 miles in order to attend this class.It is getting really, really old getting screwed like this every time I turn around.

Oh ES, I'm so sorry. You, however, need NEVER be alone. I'm not sure if you have a love for Jesus or not, but here are some scriptures that have helped me tremendously:Psalm 34:17
"The righteous cry out, and the Lord hears, and delivers them from all their troubles..."Isaiah 41:10
"Fear not for I am with you; Be not dismayed, for I am your God. I will strengthen you, yes I will help you, I will uphold you with My righteous right hand..."2 Corinthians 1: 3, 4
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort, who comforts us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort those who are in any trouble, with the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God..."Psalm 30:5
"For his anger is but for a moment; his favor is for life; weeping may endure for a night; but JOY comes in the morning."Give yourself over to God my friend. If God is for us, what can mortal man do??PEACE,MOM

ES - it's a bummer. Hang in there - one day at a time.
TNT

HI ES,
Just keep hanging in there.
Exercise is good. I used to ride my bike really hard, as fast as I could, even in the snow. I would just let my legs burn and my cheeks get frozen. Then go into the garage and attack the heavy bag. Yeah I envisioned everything possible on the fromt of that bag.
A few good things came from it-got in great shape, learned how to box and kick properly and could relax and sleep!
Also got very into different types of tea. There are some blends that soothe, some that energize, those that clear your head, those that help you think, etc.
Yoga allows for vigorous or calming moves that anyone can learn to do. Stretch your muscles and your mind. You can get a video at the library and learn in the privacy of your own living room.
And.....thre is always MB. THe greatest place to come for hugs, laughs, support and prayers.
(((((((((((es))))))))))) aloha, cl

Tonight is a little better than yesterday. I am no where close to normal, but a little better than yesterday. I have only found myself crying a couple of times today, and never was it the uncontrollable sobbing that I was doing yesterday.I am still a bit afraid of going to sleep, because of the constant wake ups I get whenever I try to sleep. I talked with my counselor about this today, I almost never remember my dreams, so when I find myself sitting up and looking around in the dark, I don't know if it was a dream which woke me or not.I have always slept like a log, but in the past few months, I am doing good if I can get three (3) to four (4) hours sleep a day. I hardly eat any more. . . partly because money is so tight, I can't afford to get a lot, but also because I find myself simply not hungry. . . .for days at a time. I have lost a great deal of weight as a result. I hardly ever turn on the TV, unless it is to have some type of background noise, because I don't watch the stupid thing.Everything in my life that I felt comfortable with, or that I thought was stable has completely fallen apart. In a very real sense, I no longer know who I am. I don't know who I am going to find when this is finally all over. . .if it is ever really over. . .I just hope and pray that something of me remains.

ES - I know what you feel like. Maybe you need some sleeping pills too. My endocrinologist prescribed a generic form of valium for me to help me to sleep. It would conk me out in no time, but then I woke up about 3 hours later - wide awake. He warned me not to take them too late in the evening because then I might not wake up - or I'd be groggy in the morning - but I thought sleep was more important, so I'd take the 2nd pill if I needed it.Now I am sleeping so much more better, I can almost count on it. What they found out is that the stress caused my auto-immune system to kick in, it attacked my thyroid, and my thyroid became over-active. So, it was much more than just stress. Maybe your doctor could check that out for you? I really don't know if that has ever happened to you before?ES, the thing about you is that you are a very passionate person, and very sincere. You are loyal also. You are shedding roles - not the deep down in side ES. You will find yourself as these layers come off - and guess what? You are a pretty decent guy. God don't make junk.(((ES)))

TNT -- I have sleeping pills as well, but I am not supposed to mix them with the second anti-depressant I was put on.Thanks for the vote of confidence. . .I hope you're right.

Hi ES,Checking in to see how you are doing. Glad you went to the counselor. It sure does seem like life has hit you up the back side. But it did not knock you over. 5 years is a long time. You are now 5 years older and wiser. For me, money also is not my constant companion. More like water that flows out way too easy. The harder I work, the more I pay. Hm........ life sucks!Are there any MBers in your area? Howz about local sports teams? What do you enjoy doing? I know these are hard questions to answer right now but maybe diversity will do you some good. Who knows? Your daughter's visits may increase. We can keep hoping. right? [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] Hugz,
L.

Orchid -- I don't know if there are any MBers in my area or not. I really have not been very active on the forumns in quite some time, and have lost track of most everything.As far as sport teams are concerned, I watch football and baseball, but with both seasons over, I do not even have that as a diversion.The things that I used to enjoy, no longer hold any joy for me. Even the TV shows that I used to watch regularly, I have not seen since Thanksgiving.There is really only one thing which has proven to be an effective diversion, but even that alternative is not available to me right now.I spend a lot of time aimlessly surfing the internetsometime reading on these forumns, but mostly I simply sit and stare off into space, even if the TV is on. The only thing which has been breaking up that monotony has been when my daughter is here.

ES, you have to stop the cycle.
You have lots of help, so let those that care and love you help you!
We can reach out and give you a hand to pull you out of the ditch, but you have to reach up and take it my friend. We will do all the pulling, dont worry about that.
You took the first step and saw the doc, now keep going to counseling and keep reaching. We will keep pulling.

Well, I knew there was a reason that I stopped reading here. I'm not real keen on being blamed for everything that has gone wrong in my marriage and for destroying ES. I admit that I made mistakes but for crying out loud. I'm not ALL to blame. That is some of the reason why I left. I was tired of getting the feeling from ES that everything wrong in our marriage was my fault and he isn't to blame for any of it. Boy I wish I hadn't come back. I hate being blamed for everything since it seems that everyone here feels that way and seems to be blaming me as well as ES.

Hi ES,I'm gonna be gone for a week, but know that I will be thinking of you and praying, as I do for all those I care about here -- even if I've never seen them face-to-face.ES, you are a GOOD MAN. I really think hopeful is a good woman too. You both have been so very hurt over the years... and that's truly sad. My therapist said the same about my marriage to David, you know? It's OKAY to be sad -- that's a normal part of grieving.ES, I have just recently begun to feel like myself. And I mean - in the last several weeks. Two months ago I was at the tail end of a VERY DEEP depression. It pisses me off, but I had to take the meds. I HATE that!! I want to take care of it myself, or let God do it -- anything but the meds. But you know what? When they kicked in, which took about two weeks, it helped... but weeks later, about three weeks later, ALL OF THE SUDDEN, I could SEE THE LIGHT at the end of the tunnel.Some of what you (and I) are going through is normal grieving, some is circumstances (the end of a long term marriage and financial ruin), some is chemical. When you get the chemical worked through, you can begin to take care of the other things. I never have gotten back into watching the shows I used to watch on TV, or read my books, although I do try. But I am better. You will be too -- soon.I hope I come back next week to a much-improved ES.TAKE CARE, My friend.Hugs,
Sheryl

Dear Hopeful and ES,
I am so sorry that you feel blame is being passed around here. It is not the intention.
I hope you will both feel comforted and encouraged to know you have many friends and supporters here.
(((((hugs))))) aloha, cl

Hopeful, If you are still around, you will notice that I wrote my last response at the same time you wrote yours. I mentioned there that you are a good person - BEFORE you wrote. I am sure you are grieving also. Ending a marriage, especially a long-term marriage, is HARD. I'm sorry for your pain too.The reason ES is getting support is because he came and asked for support. Had you done the same, you too would be getting support. I have always been there for BOTH of you.Hopeful, the time for blame is over. Please read what we've all written and you'll see we are offering KINDNESS and a HAND UP for a man who is VERY DEPRESSED. The same is offered to you, if you'll take it...

Going back and rereading what I have read I've come across a math formula by TNT. It basically state: hopeful=unhealthy marriage.Sure seems to me that I'm being blamed by TNT for the marriage being so bad. Yes ES is asking for help. I understand that he is depressed. But I've also seen him have such a close relationship with another woman that he seems he has moved on with his life. I just hate being blamed for everything. It seems to me that ES is even saying that his being depressed is all my fault. That I should just give him his daughter and be depressed myself and that would make everything that much better. I just hate this feeling that everyone says this is all my fault.

Hopeful, I am not blaming you, nor am I blaming ES, I am blaming LIFE. I have been in your shoes... I have been in ES's shoes... I HEAR BOTH OF YOU.I cannot speak for anyone else... I can only speak for myself.I hurt for BOTH OF YOU. I always have.

Well, I guess this thread has irritated hopeful. . . that too was never my intention. My intention was simply to seek out some type of support for my own depression over the entire situation.I don't think I have based hopeful in this thread, but I know that I have based myself quite a bit.Bottom line here folks is that both hopeful and I are at fault in the deterioration of our marriage. My only hope now is that we can maintain enough of a friendship to be able to give our daughter the love she needs.* * * * * *I just went back and re-read everything I have written in this thread. I think that I have been much harder on myself than I have hopeful.Hopeful, I am sorry if this thread has upset you. . . That was NEVER my intention.[ February 07, 2002: Message edited by: Empty Shell ]

Well, It's Friday morning. I slept about four hours, off and on, last night.I pick up my daughter tonight, so I am not really sure what type of reaction to expect from my STBX, especially after her reaction to this thread.I hope today stays calm.

[hopeful]Well, I knew there was a reason that I stopped reading here. I'm not real keen on being blamed for everything that has gone wrong in my marriage and for destroying ES. I admit that I made mistakes but for crying out loud. I'm not ALL to blame. That is some of the reason why I left. I was tired of getting the feeling from ES that everything wrong in our marriage was my fault and he isn't to blame for any of it. Boy I wish I hadn't come back. I hate being blamed for everything since it seems that everyone here feels that way and seems to be blaming me as well as ES.[/hopeful]Hopeful, contrary to what you believe, this thread was not about you, or your marriage. It is about the process that ES is going through after you both chose your divorce. It is a normal process, and I don't feel like I blamed you at all. You both have said that you had an unhealthy marriage. Yes, the math formula means that a marriage between you and ES = unhealthy marriage. Subtract you from the equation and you get the same answer. This is NOT an attack on you. Please understand that although you may not be feeling the same as ES at this time, that all of us process the end of a marriage (chosen or not) in the same way - it is a grieving process. It is healthy to grieve. You, hopeful, are jumping to the defense, assuming that because ES needs support, and is receiving it, that someone is against you. Simply not true - we are not an "either/or" board, we are a support board. Please respect ES's fragile condition right now, and do not add anything to his plate. That would be the kind thing to do.TNT