Hey everyone

I found out that my wife was having an affair about 3 weeks ago. She carried it on for about a week after I confronted her about it. It had only been going on for about 2 weeks when I found out.
About 2 weeks ago she told me that she loves us both and that she was confused about who she wants to stay with.

Things happened, I asked her for a divorce, then changed my mind and told her that I wasn't willing to give up and lose her to some guy she had known for a month or so, after I have known her for almost 9 years (married nearly 5 of them). We have 3 children.

A week ago, she told me that she had told her lover that it was over between them and that she was going to give our marriage 100% effort in getting it back to where it should be. She does love me but has told me that she still loves him, but really wants to keep our family together and therefore is willing to let him go.

One problem with all this is that she works for this guy as his PA, and she really wants to stay working for him. She really likes the work, but I am a little worried because he keeps sending her lyrics to songs with a romantic undertone. I have asked her to ask him to stop that and to no longer text message after hours (they communicate work related stuff by text messages because it is cheaper than calls).

I know I need to get her to quit and have no further contact with him, but I really don't want to give her any ultimatums this close to the beginning of our rebuild, but on the other hand I cannot take it if something happens and they even so much as kiss again.
She also thinks that in time they could be good friends. I�m not so sure of this.

I have told her that if he becomes a problem then she really needs to think about disconnecting totally, but I know she doesn't want to.

I know she really loves me. I see it her eyes and I want to trust her again, but I am finding it very hard to do so.

She is a very religious Christian, and I do wonder if her beliefs are what made her stay with me, but she tells me that is only part of the reason. It really isn't like her to lie, but she did lie about the affair, which makes me wonder how truthful she is being now.

I do have to say that since we started to reconcile, our love life has been far better than it has ever been. We speak all the time, and seem to be much closer than we have ever been. We just seem more in love.

Our marriage was getting a little boring and we had both become so boring and our lives had become one day running into the next.
We had both stopped romancing each other and while I know it was wrong for her to cheat on me, I know how it was possible for it to happen in the first place.

From the beginning, she said that the affair was her fault alone, and that she had no right to do it in the first place. She didn�t, even once try to say that I was no good or horrible or anything like that. In fact, I found out about the affair by finding E-Mails between the OM and her, and not once was there anything nasty in them from her to him.
She is totally willing to take responsibility and she seems to really want our relationship to work.
She answers all of my questions fully and even seems to be able and willing to let me rant and blow off a little steam once in a while.

Last night she told me that she loves me and that she has made the right decision in staying with me.


Am I being an idiot for accepting that she wants to stay working for him?
Does anyone have any advice on how I can approach the subject of her quitting her job without it sounding like I am trying to control her life?

I know that the circumstances of my relationship are not known to anyone other than myself, but any advise is welcome.
Please, no telling me how bad and nasty my wife is. That won't help.

Thanks in advance

Working with OM will not work.

I have never, in 4 + years on this site, seen a case where that worked.

My story is more grim than many, but I think we are going to make it.

Thanks for the reply, but how about a little more on my question on how to approach the subject?

Quin,

There is one strict rule for marital reconciliation after A which is stressed out by dr. Harley and all folks here in the forum:

NO CONTACT FOR LIFE.

Any other option will not work. If you need an example from real life - I have a very good one - myself.

I agreed (more than a year ago) that some professional communication between my W and OM can remain since the project they were working with was ending soon anyway and OM was working abroad.

Well, after 9 months I discovered that they met couple of times in secret and the communication was far from professional. They planned secretly to meet and "to move somewhere quieter after that" again when I finally intercepted the emails.

You are going to live through the same kind of false recovery if you do not insist to change the job.

The fact that she likes the job doesn't matter anymore. The line is crossed and it is not your fault. There is only two options for her now - either quit the job or set you two up for marital disaster.

Concerning how to communicate the inevitable to your WW - you can be a broken record saying "I am convinced that our marriage cannot survive without NC. Every connection, even smallest professional ones between you two, cuts like a knife through my heart". Speak about your feelings, not how nasty or bad your WW is by not ending the contact. And actually, they are not nasty or bad, they are just lost and need you desperately to help them out.

Probably you will be accused being weak or being controlling - ignore that. It is very typical reaction when you try to withdraw an addict from their source of addiction. I know, you are afraid to push your WW (I was exactly like you!) but by not actually standing up for a right thing you are enabling the affair not ending it.

I'm not sure about telling your WW about MB site as referral for the fact that NC is a must. Read as much as you can here but do not tell your WW about this site until the affair is over (and it is not over before the NC although your WW tries to convince you it is!).

Btw, is the OM married? Have you exposed the affair? If not, do it - BUT DO NOT WARN your WW or OM about it! The very common mistake many BS do (incl myself) is to warn OM (if you do not end the affair I will tell your W) - this will backfire, I'll guarantee. Of course, first reaction is that exposure is too drastic or vindictive. But the situation is drastic and calls drastic measures which are not vindictive but meant to kill the A and save your family.

Recovery is IMPOSSIBLE while there is still contact.

The AFFAIR is still ON!

There is no good way to broach the subject. Maybe print out the infidelity articles from this site and show them to her.

You need to expose this affair to your family, your wife's family and friends, neighbours; Other scumbags family too especially his wife. Tell people your wife is having an affair with her boss and you are asking for their support in repairing your marriage.

Exposure is to an affair what chemotherapy is to cancer.

Sorry you are here but welcome to MB.
My H had an EA with a coworker. After discovery of the A, I kicked him out, but we, like you and your W, realized we wanted the M (while he was still working with OW). He will now be the FIRST person to tell you that Recovery is not possible while still working with OP.

Just looking at OP will trigger the addictive feelings&thoughts...and once he left the workplace, he admitted this was true ~ even tho he really didn't want the EA anymore.

This is what Dr. Harley says about this:

I basically told my H it was a boundary of mine that he not work with OW. I think it is OK for you to let her know your M will not work if she stays there, matter of factly. You need to be confident when you say this so maybe read some of the threads around here...you will quickly see that the A does not end when the affair partners still have contact.

Thank you for all the advice. I really appreciate it.

I see from what has been said that I have to do what I need to do.

I have to get her to quit the job and have no contact with him from then on.

Let me know if this is the correct track to be on...

I know for a fact that there is no more dating/sexual side to their relationship. It is strictly business.

I will follow plan A for a while. I am going to make her know that I am the best man on the face of the planet for her, and then in a while I will give her the news that she has to quit and have no further contact with him at all, or lose me.

Any thoughts please?

I think you're being played by your WW. How do you know "for a fact" that the A is no longer continuing? They could be boinking on top of his desk every day for all you know - waywards can be VERY good at hiding their activities, particularly if they know that they're being watched.

Frankly, I think she's trying to manipulate you into thinking that her continuing to work with the OM could actually be an acceptable option.

Exposure could be a powerful tool here to break up that A. Is the OM M'd?

How did you catch your WW?

WW has an addiction to the OM. As with any addict WW can not be around her source of addiction. WW must have NC for life with the OM.

As has been pointed out they can be going at it on his desk every day, and WW still is home when she should be.

You must expose this affair to WW's parents and her siblings, and the OMW. Do not warn WW that you will expose just do it without warning.

WW must hand over all internet accounts and passwords, and cell phone and password to verify NC.

Continued contact will cause the affair to restart.

Wake up SHL, OM is a problem NOW so don't wait for the problem to get bigger and bigger. Is he married? If so expose to his wife and expose the A to family and friends who you think can be of influence on your wife. Don't believe anything out of her mouth. This is a pivotal time that can save you a lot of grief down the road. WW can not work with OM. You will kick yourself if you ever go along with this. The A is far from over.

I would wait about 15 minutes and then let her know that your marriage cannot recover unless all contact ends for life. Possibly 20 minutes. But you shouldn't wait longer than today. Just tell her that your marriage cannot recover unless she leaves the job. This cannot wait. Tell her you cannot live like this. Trying to butter her up in Plan A is nothing more than a delaying tactic that will enable the affair to become more entrenched. She wants to stay there so she can continue her affair. And she will stay as long as you tolerate that kind of abuse. It will be at the expense of your mental health, I assure you.

And no, her affair is not over. She has just changed the name to "business contact" from "adultery." Every time she sees him is a relapse of her affair.

Is the man married and has the affair been exposed to his wife? In addition, I would confront this scumbag after you tell his wife and let him know that hell is coming if he touches your wife again.

p.s. we have some here who waited too long and their wives are PREGANT by the OM. That is the risk you take by allowing the affair to become more and more entrenched by doing nothing about it.

Hi there SHL,

I read your mail yesterday and was surprised by your name at that time. I'm a little further South of you on the map.

The rule of thumb is to go nuclear on exposure. Expose to her church, children and friends all at one time. Trust me, she will be seriously miffed. You need to change the subject when she corners you on exposure. NC is the only solution at this time - forever. She needs to write a NC note which you will vet.

You really do need to spend some time at the articles here to see whether you are meeting her EN's at a minimum of 15 hours per week.

Highly recommended at this site is to purchase Dr Harley's book "Surviving an Affair". Continue reading the articles here to get the details of Plan A and plan B.

Regardless of what she has said, you need to follow her religious example and pray.

The OM is divorced, so telling his wife won't work. His mother knows about it and she gave him hell about it.

I know that you all think I am being stupid about this, but I do believe my wife when she tells me that the sexual side of the affair is over, but I do wonder why she wants to work for him so badly.

It may be because she wants to jump his bones at work, but I tend to think that isn't the reason.

I think it is that she doesn't want to hurt him. Funny, I'll hurt him in a second.

Anyway, I'll figure it out sooner than later.

Thanks all.

It's not that you're stupid but it's a complete failure to understand the nature and dynamic of an affair.

You are thinking of your WW as the wife you have always known and loved...and not as an addict who will lie to your face and manipulate you to keep getting hits off the crackpipe (seeing OM).

You are in a bit of denial...and if you continue on this path, you will be back here at some point telling us "you were all right" as we have seen time and again. Good luck.

Let me stress what others have said here. She must end ALL contact with OM - FOR LIFE! This must start not next year, next month, or next week. It must start NOW. Immediately. Today.

You have a powerful weapon to bust up this A. You said: What is a PA - paralegal? So in other words, is she an employee? A strongly worded letter to the company would put pressure on OM to end all contact immediately. There is a great letter that has been posted on the Board in the past that is very legal, mentioning possible sexual harassment and illegal use of company time and resources. Perhaps someone can post it here. I will try to find it as well.

Regardless of whether she likes her work, this should be non-negotiable. She ended her right to work there when she had the A. Recovery of your M will not begin until this happens.

I was the primary breadwinner at the time of my A, AND I carried our insurance. My A was with a fellow teacher. I got lucky; the OM decided he didn't like teaching after all and was going back to school. But me quitting would have been the only solution. I don't know how we would have made it financially, but that was part of the bed I made. To be honest, one of the bast days of my life was the day OM finally moved to another state so I didn't have to worry about running into him at Wal Mart.

She probably won't like this, and she may fight against it, but a tightened belt will be worth it when your marriage is restored. She may actually think she won't continue with him. I told myself several times "I will never email again; I will never answer another text." It never worked. I was too foggy.

Found it from an old Mel post, so props to Mel! I love this letter:

"I know that you all think I am being stupid about this"

You are the Grand Master of understatement. Denial is not a river in EYGPT. It is the land of delusion you are choosing to live in.

"but I do believe my wife when she tells me that the sexual side of the affair is over, but I do wonder why she wants to work for him so badly."

Because she want's the sex to continue.

"It may be because she wants to jump his bones at work, but I tend to think that isn't the reason."

"I think it is that she doesn't want to hurt him. Funny, I'll hurt him in a second."

Though you will allow contact to continue so WW can still bang the OM.

The likelihood of them not continuing to have sex is remote. Just for argument's sake, even if they didn't have sex anymore, the EA would flourish with them together. That is just as damaging to your M as if they were still having sex.

Not stupid. Naive, maybe. Optimistic, sure. But not stupid. Look, Still, the A will continue as long as proximity continues. I wouldn't believe a word that comes out of your WW's mouth right now. She needs to leave the job. TODAY.

Didn't they start out as just friends? Understand that this is how screwed up her thinking is. Her A has already shown WW is capable and willing to cross the line with OM.


You are not stupid but you are in your own fog (denial) wanting to think the situation isn't a bad as it is or that the your WS is NOW being truthful and can control themselves where OP is concerned because she says so...guess again. No BS wants to think the worst of the WS but sticking your head in the sand to avoid the FACTS is not going to help you. If your WW had an A with the gardener, would you keep him around your house? Would you invite OM over for dinner to discuss work?

For the sake of argument, lets suspend reality and say that professional contact is possible NC is as much for your own sanity as it is to keep the A dead while you try to restore your M. Every day WW goes to work you will wonder what they are doing, why she didn't answer the phone when you called, why she is late coming home, did they go to lunch together, what did they eat, is OM putting the moves on WW, did she resist, did she try to resist, for how long, if she looks extra pretty today is it for him, did he buy that new dress she brought home, is she laughing at his jokes, on and on until you are ready to have a meltdown or a heart attack. That will be your life EVERY DAY she works there no matter what she says and how hard you try to convince yourself there is only "professional contact."

R is hard enough on a BS even if the OP is far far away. Having the OP *right there* is like signing up to get kicked in the gut on a daily basis. WW was too weak to say "No" to OM and she didn't want to say "No" to him either. Hold the line SHL. You will be throwing your wife and marriage to the wolves if you don't. You have the benefit of finding MB early on so you can find out what to expect and what works before more damage is done. Save yourself a lot of grief and get your WW out of that job. If she refuses, then there is no point in going to MC, IC, or talking about R because there will be no R. If you are willing to be married at all costs, that's what you will be signing up for.

I think deep down you already know all this, you simply don't want to admit it.

Worth repeating. That's a whole other animal you don't want to endure. Do not ignore the neon signs and red flags.

Have you exposed this to HIS boss? Having an A with someone who reports to you is the ULTIMATE immoral workplace activity. Get him fired! Then she won't have to quit.

Oh, and yes, you are incredibly naive.

This is not your wife you're dealing with - it's a crack addict who can think of NOTHING else but to be near him, hear him, see him, touch him, and secretly find ways to do it all over again. That is HALF the appeal! She tells you she wants to stay with you because half the fun of an A is getting to go home to old guy, and sneak in texts and calls and plans. If you kick her out, all that fantasy is destroyed, and then it's just a nasty slimy affair.

Call his boss right now.

Because she wants to keep her boyfriend, that's why.

Waywards love having two (or more) people meeting their ENs for them. Why settle for just one when all she has to do is lie to you and she can have TWO men jumping through hoops for her?

That's why.
Mulan

Work place affair with her boss.

What are you waiting for thei must be exposed at work at once.
Email a letter to the CEO, then CC copies to the Director of HR, and the Board members.

He is a lawyer and works for himself, so exposing him to his boss won't work.

Now I have to find a way of getting her to quit and have no contact, without screwing my marriage up.

I know I'm being a bit of a sucker for punishment here, but I really don't want to lose her, and I think she feels the same for me, but she will leave me if I expose her to her family and friends.

There has to be a way for me to get her to have NC with him without losing her.

Any ideas how I can get her to see him for the manipulative [censored] he really is?
He is into 3somes and foes a fair amount of screwing around.

ps. My wife cannot have any more children, but if she does sleep with him again I think I may go insane.

Trust me when I say if she continues to work for him she WILL sleep with him again. And again. And again.
In fact, every time he looks at her, he sees her naked. And she sees him naked.
How much does that bother you? It SHOULD bother you enough to force her hand.
Ask her how she would feel if the tables were turned, and someone you worked for had seen you naked--again and again.
Don't be afraid of losing her. You've already lost her. Now try to get her back.

Your marriage is already screwed if she stays there.

The best shot you have is Plan A followed by Plan B. Read this:What are Plan A and Plan B?

When you go to Plan B and she is forced to depend on him to meet ALL of her needs, the fantasy will fall apart and she will finally start to see who he really is.

>but she will leave me if I expose her to her family and friends.


Hey...nothing says I love you like a little emotional extortion.

I am working on plan A every day now. Have been doing so for 4 days now, and she and I are having a huge amount of fun together, but I still think she and him are sending text messages and E-Mails that I know nothing about.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH, the mystery is going to kill me!!!

Well, that's an easy one! Go find your local Bar and report him.

>AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH, the mystery is going to kill me!!!


This feeling is the same feeling you will feel EVERY day till she leaves that job.

I promise.

You'll go to bed like this, you'll wake like this.

BTDT.

YOU MUST have this adultry TOTALLY end. The only way to ensure this is to expose and for her to quit her job.

Period.

HAHAHAHAHAHA!

Gee, I wish I had a dime for every BS who came here and said that! And was wrong!

SHL, spend some time reading some of the other threads. Go to Recovering and see what worked. At least 95% of the time, it was EXPOSURE. Nothing else. And every time, the WS screamed at the BS "I hate you! You've ruined any chance I would ever choose you! You'll never get me back now! I was going to come back to you but now you've ruined it!"

Are you going to listen to the experts here or not?

You will also find a few dozen BSs who did NOT follow the advice because they were AFRAID their spouse would leave them. Guess what? They left them anyway, because the WS lost all respect for the BS because they didn't fight for their marriage. Think about it.

Stop letting your fear ruin your marriage. Man up.

Have you installed a keylogger on her computer? GPS in her car? Downloaded her emails and texts?

Why not?

Better yet, have you CANCELLED your phone and internet service?

Still, she isn't going to leave you if you expose her. Although I'm sure she would like for you to think that so you can assist her in keeping her dirty little secret.
I've seen this before: the BS is scared and is charting the totally foreign waters of an A. So what does he do? He defaults to the person he 'thinks' he knows, hoping she will be the standup woman he married and will do the right thing. And he's afraid to upset her and ruin his chance to save the M. Well. She's NOT the woman you married, Still. She's an addict right now. She is NOT going to do what is in the best interest of your M. YOU will have to do this. THAT is how you will save your M.
Don't assume the OM has kinky habits that will turn your WW off. How he likes sex is immaterial. Don't get distracted by his good or bad habits. Just work on your WW.

Please read this:

Exposure Thread

That's great that you are working your Plan A.

I know it sounds weird but we all probably know better what your WW is up to than you do because we have seen it again and again here, waywards all follow the same patterns. They get a high off the OP and they cannot get over that addiction while they are still in contact.

Believe us, it is NO mystery ~ she is definitely still text messaging and emailing him.

Ditto:

Report him to the Bar association.
Expose to friends, family, pastor
Cancel, install and snoop
Insist on NC TODAY - go to her work, tell her she's done, take her home.


My H had OW living with us, working for him, attending church with us, recreating/playing with him. Everyone who raised alarms: me, pastor, employees, friends of ours and HERS were all shussed with "it's Ok, she's like a daughter to me". In your case, "friend" -- oldest adultery line in the book.

She's cake eating.

So what if she leaves upon exposure?

1. He'll panic that she wants commitment from him, if he's such a player, and dump her. Fog will break.

2. She'll have her fling with him until she starts to miss her kids, family, suffer the reality of the her new "reputation" and begin to see him for what he is (opportunistic scumbag) and you for what you are ( committed, loving spouse) and leave him. Fog will break.

Fight for your marriage, you have 3 little kids, man up.

(All 2X4's given in love)

SHL,

We both know that going after him legally will not work. This on account of where you stay. If she is on your side it may. Sexual harassment. Consult another lawyer.

I ask you to read Jim deGriz on this forum - Bill Harley speaks out. You are making one of the classic mistakes that NEW BS's make at this forum viz. they do not expose. The consequences are even more traumatic than initial exposure.

You are undermining your position as a strong husband. Do not threaten her. Please read the section on lovebusters. Expose once to all that will help and walk straight into his office tell him that you are fighting for your wife. Too bad if there is a client in his office. The next step is a poster outside of his building.

Your wife will definitely take this as a lovebuster. Hey, a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do. But at least she will know that she is married to a man.

"Man up."
Great quote.
Bears repeating.
Don't cower and wait for the affair to rekindle. Put your foot on it.
Nothing kills the A faster than good old fashioned exposure. To everyone. I did it. It works. H said he'd never forgive me. He forgave. He realized it was HIS fault, not mine.
Took a while, but it did happen.
Man up. Your family, even your wife, will thank you someday.

As we often say around here:

Your marriage CAN withstand her anger at you.
It CANNOT withstand her f**king another man.

Got it?
Mulan

SHL,

Any ideas how I can get her to see him for the manipulative [censored] he really is? He is into 3somes and foes a fair amount of screwing around.

Since he is a major threat to your wifes health, expose him to his kids, you can find them in no time on facebook.

NJ

The kids are too young to understand. lol

You're looking for reasons NOT to act. Now is not the time to play softball. Seriously.
How young are the kids? Toddler age? If they're past kindergarten, they're old enough to understand.

Get off your hands, SHL. Tell her the job thing is over TODAY.

I am a WW and I say - march your butt down there and tell her to pack her stuff and leave the office...now.

She flat can not work with this man. Every time she looks at him she will have a little thrill in her tummy - because she is still liking him.

To really be a former WS I think the thought of the OP must make you sick - the idea of running into them horrible. The fact that she can STAND to work for this scum bag that indangered her marriage and made her risk losing the man she loves PROVES she isnt out of the fog.

If she is DONE with the OP and wants to save the marriage she should want nothing to do with him or any behavior or activity associated with the affair...the urge to physically push him and everything she did away from her and scream NO _ HOW COULD I HAVE DONE THIS - should be there ...if she isnt made physically ILL by what she has done... She is not out of the fog.

Be her husband, her protector, her MAN and say - you are quiting this job and we will make the money side work.
A job should NEVER be more important than your spouse.

As others have said, expose the A to all who could influence it, even your kids, and tell your wife that if the M is to survive, she must leave the job. Tell her this before you expose (DON'T threaten exposure if she doesn't though-that would tip your hand), and if she refuses to leave, drop the exposure bomb.

Yes, she'll be angry, and threaten to leave (among other things she'll say), but most exposed wayward spouses are furious and make all kinds of threats they NEVER follow through on. If your wife proves to be the exception, well, you were going to lose her anyway.

But I'm betting you won't-as long as you expose. If you don't, especially if she stays at that job, you almost certainly WILL lose her.

What is your reasoning for allowing her to continue working with her lover? It must be a good one - please share with us why you want your WW to continue to have daily contact with POSOM.

You have got to be kidding me. She's alone with him??!!

I have just been found out that I have been reading her E-Mails between them.

I called the OM. He is furious that I have been going through his confidential E-Mails with his PA (personal assistant). They have a lot of client privileged info in them with the "private" stuff.

I spoke to my wife a few minutes after and she is also furious with me.

I am going to demand that she quit working for him this evening. What I won't tell her is that if she refuses, I will expose them both to all of their friends and family.

I have had enough of this crap. I am taking charge!

Do both. Seriously. And NOW! What everyone here is telling you is right. You may be resisting believing this, thinking 'My WH is different - deep down she does love me and would never do this.' But we are certain that she is still sleeping with him. No way did that come to an end suddenly just because you said stop.
Desperate problems require desperate measures! Don't dither now.

Please follow the advice given here exactly, not some modified version of it. Exposure is something you should do first and regardless whether your wife will quit the job or not.

I didn't have an excellent source of help like MB when I was in similar situation. I would have saved myself from lot of pain if I had.

You have the chance to learn from other peoples mistakes, use it wisely.

Why did you call OM?

Of course they did. They are addicts, and you took away their "crack." I'm surprised you didn't get the "how can I trust you now" line from your WW.

I called him partly to confront him and partly because he had sent an e-mail to my wife's address telling me to stop reading his e-mails. It could have been a trap to test if I was reading them, but I'm glad I confronted him.

Lol, Oh I got that line and a whole lot more, like how dare I, and she thought things were going so well.

I can't wait till she gets home so we can have a chat about it face to face.

She should be home any minute now after picking the kids up from school.

Did you know Dr. Harley describes exposure as marking the beginning of recovery? I don't think you have a shot here of your WW leaving the job if you don't expose this.

Here's a good description of exposure from MelodyLane that I just posted to someone else and it seemed to help convince him so I thought I would post it to you.

(Very important, when you decide you won't enable the A any longer and you want to expose, just make sure not to threaten or warn your WW or OM that you will be doing this.)
[/quote]
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...in=151933&Number=2094738#Post2094738

Just be prepared, she will be trying to gaslight you!

Exposure is done not as a punishment. It is not withheld to try to beat the wayward into submission. The exposure HELPS the waywards change their wayward ways. It makes them ACCOUNTABLE for the consequences of their actions.
So far, what have been the CONSEQUENCES for your wife's affair? NONE.
So you peeked at her email.
WOE IS ME!~ What a consequence.
Seriously.
Exposure MUST be done, regardless of whether she's there working. Trust me, I learned it the hard way. First DDay, I didn't expose. A year later, same situation. I exposed to EVERYONE. Guess what? The A ended that day.

It should be exposed ANYWAY. That is how affairs end, Op. It is the best weapon you have against the affair.

Read this article Dr Harley just wrote about exposure: When Should An Affair Be Exposed?

So you are still reading the emails.

Did you find out if the affair is still going on?

Did the OM know you were reading those emails?

If not then it was not a smart move to tip off the OM.

Also not a smart move to not of have exposed by now.

Exposure does not work as a bribe or a threat to end the affair. The WW will only say what ever you want to hear so you will not expose so she can protect her OM. And, more important she will keep on banging the OM.

You should of told the OM that you would not stay out of my marriage, my wife, yet you have the nevre to tell me to stay out of your life.

Man up. Expose to everyone now. Your WW and the OM are playing you for a fool.

The Road:
The affair is ongoing because they see each other every day. Whether it is a PA or an EA, the affair continues. EAs are often more powerful than PAs. The old unrequited love, thing...
SHE CANNOT WORK FOR HIM.
I'll say it again.
SHE CANNOT WORK FOR HIM.
That is a consequence of HER actions. HER lack of boundaries. It is not BH's fault.

SHL! What are you waiting for, he77 to freeze over? Because that's what will have to happen if you're waiting for your WW and her AP to decide to do the right thing. They're NOT GOING TO! What is it about that you don't understand?? Drop the bomb, NOW! (you can thank us later)

Get this right. It is not you problem that they set up the email that you could get access , but theirs,

I am sorry that you released the source of your information. This is a pity. Nevertheless, she HAS to stop working for this clown. A bonus here is that you have confidential information here which would embarrass his business.

He is trying to bluster his way out of his part of the affair. I do hope that you told him to beat it.

Ok, here is a quick update and a little news for those of you who are so blinded by your rage...

I have been speaking with my wife about the affair almost continually for the last few days.

Communication has always been the cornerstone of our marriage, and it always will be.

We have both done a lot of soul searching, and neither of us are fully innocent in the affair.

We had both decided to try to patch things up ourselves, by using some of the info on the MB site, and had both made quite a big step towards fixing our marriage.
We were both feeling pretty good about things and then I came to this forum, saw some suspicious E-Mails and drew all sorts of conclusions.

Because I had told my wife the lie that I had not looked at her E-Mails when she asked me if I had, I couldn�t confront her about them.

Yes, she had the affair and broke my heart and trust. I spied on her E-Mails and that wasn't justified!!! It was wrong. There is no way to justify it. End of story!

I didn�t even give her a chance to prove to me that she could be trusted. Instead, I just assumed that the affair was still on, and did everything to prove to myself that it was.

My wife is not like a lot of people out there. Once she makes her mind up, she generally sticks to it. She had told me that the affair was over, and I should have believed her, but couldn�t because of the broken trust AND because of what I had read here on this forum.

There is a lot of good advice here on MB, but I do think that the forum members need to do a little letting go of their anger, frustration and hurt, so that they can look past that to fixing things, instead of perpetuating them all the time.

I had a cricket practice yesterday morning with the team that the OM is captain of. He invited my wife and I over afterwards for the afternoon and to watch some rugby on TV.

We went, and things were a little tense at first, but I made it clear that I knew about the affair every now and then. We kept everything pretty happy go lucky, and my wife and I went home pretty late after enjoying a nice afternoon and evening.

When I woke up this morning, I went outside and picked some flowers from our garden and left them all around my wife in bed so she would see them when she woke up.

She was very impressed, and we spoke about things a little.

After the first really honest/emotional conversation since D-Day we both broke down and sobbed like babies and we apologized for the things we had done to each other that were wrong. She especially apologized for having the affair, and told me that she would quit her job and break off all contact because she could now see that even though her intentions are good, and that she intends to be faithful, that she can see that the affair will probably re-start some time in the future if she doesn�t break off all contact.

She also said that her faith in God had taken quite a big hit, and that she needs to get that sorted out, so she has decided to tell her pastor what has happened, so he can help her in that respect, so that she doesn�t have another break in her faith. I will be going with her for moral support because I know that it will be one of the most difficult things she will ever have to do. I think we will also ask him for some advise in the counseling area as well.

I know that a lot of you out there think I am some sort of coward, but in this case I do think that communication is far more powerful that exposing the affair to everyone around your wife.

The bottom line here is this�

Why did I marry my wife? Because I loved her. I still love her!
Why did she marry me? Because she loved me. She still loves me!

Does that sound too simple? Yes?

HELL NO!!!

What would be my motive behind exposing my wife (and believe me, I did come close)? It would have been to get back at her and to hurt her. Yes, I would have said that it was to make her friends look at her in disgust and to get the affair to end, but the real reason would have been to hurt and humiliate her, and she would have left me.

Whether she would come back to me after a little while is immaterial. What I would have succeeded in doing would to have been to push her back to him. They would have had a little bit more of their affair, and I would be heart broken all over again.

I doubt I would have taken her back after that if she had wanted to come back in the first place, so that would have ruined my marriage anyway.

Would it have been justified? No. Yes, she hurt me. Does that give me the right to hurt her? I bet you would all say �yes�, but I don�t agree.

I love my wife and I have forgiven her for having the affair. It is now time for us to communicate and to get to know how we can maintain our romance so that this doesn�t happen ever again.

If this can help anyone out there to repair their marriage without more hurt and pain and suffering than there already is, then I am happy.

To those of you who are so busy getting back at your WS, suck it up, COMMUNICATE, and get over yourselves so you can reconcile. I�m sure it will be a much faster and happier reconciliation. Stop being so stuck on how your spouse hurt you, and look at how you can build your marriage to the point of being unbreakable.

May the flaming begin...

OK, did I read this right? You play cricket with the OM AND went over to his house to watch rugby on TV? AND your wife has YOU feeling bad because of secret emails that SHE sent?

Have you ever heard of gaslighting? You really should read up on it.

AM

That is my point exactly.

The affair is over and both my wife and I are happy. Why should it be any other way? Because it will happen again? I doubt it.

I had a cricket practice with the team to see if I could play, and to see if I would enjoy it. That was the first and only time.

I don't play cricket with the OM, and I went to his house once. That's not happening again, unless I go with my wife to hand his work stuff back to him, so get over it.

Stop being so bitter and twisted and think for yourself.

No flaming here, SH! I'm very glad that the affair is over and you and your wife have entered recovery.

You have found a way to befriends with OM and accept his hospitality. I think it shows maturity that you and your wife can go to his house and socialise. I think that this is far better than having NC. I don't think that you should worry that your wife says that the affair will continue at some time in the future if there is contact. She seems very sure of her boundaries and coped well with visiting OM at his house the other day.

I agree with you that those of us who post offering other BSs advice do so out of blind rage. We have indeed perpetuated things by following Dr Harley's advice. Exposure and NC are no ways to end an affair and build a better marriage and neither should we EVER try to see private correspondence between our spouses and their lovers. That correspondence was meant for their eyes only, and it is breach of trust for us to insist on seeing it. It has nothing to do with our our marriages, which are about communication between us and our spouses. We have no right to know what are spouses say or said in private to their lovers.

I regret invading my H's privacy by reading his text messages. I seriously harmed my married by relying the messages to OWH. He confronted his wife and she was was seriously pissed at my H for breaching her confidence. She dumped him in anger, and that was not the way the affair should have ended. It should have been allowed to run its natural course.

Instead of spying and exposing, I should have listened to my H the first, second and third times he told me that the affair was over. I know it continued for 2 years without my knowing it, and then for another year while I tried to spy, but it would have ended by itself in a few years if I had just sucked it up, trusted him and COMMUNICATED with him. Talking and trust are the keys to ending an affair.

I hope Dr Harley reconsiders his programme in the light of what you have written - I know he reads the forums. He is rewriting his book Surviving and Affair and I think your advice should be its cornerstone.

Thank you for waking us all up to how harmful this forum is in the immediate aftermath of an affair.

Ha! I get it! This whole thread was designed to bring us to this conclusion and show us what sheep we are. I think you have challenged our thinking very nicely.

I'm away off to digest and learn.

Oh, so you don't know what gaslighting is.

Have you read ANY of Dr. Harley's books or articles? He has more than 30 years of experience conseling couples after affairs and gives very specific guidelines about how affairs must end and how to recover a marriage. You are currently setting yourself up for continued pain and no chance of recovery. But that is your call.... nothing there for me to get over.

I am confused by your post. Are you wanting us all to be happy that your wife gets to carry on her affair with her boss right in front of your face? What is the expression... denial is more than a river in Egypt.



AM

Hi again SHL,

This is a marriage BUILDING forum. We are not here because we have our own opinion to express. The folks here have been through the same circumstances as you have. They have used precisely the same words. They are here to warn you against you falling into the same pit that they fell.

I have NOT been betrayed, but I do share concern for all those people that have. You need to spend a little time with your wife to find out why she was tempted in the first place. NC is vital. You need to install a keylogger onto her computer to confirm it. As the folk here say: Trust but verify.

I am not sure that you share the same faith as your wife. Otherwise I would suggest that you both go to her pastor. If your wife has indeed been willing to break off contact, then I believe that this conforms to Biblical teaching and it is not necessary to expose the affair widely. Once contact takes place beyond NC do not hesitate to expose.

WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT RETRIBUTION. We are talking consequences. Only God brings retribution.

Oh SugarCane, thanks so much for this enlightening post. Goodness, I have been doing it wrong all along, reading MB concepts and attempting to follow them.

I should have been communicating more with my H. When he said he wanted to stay friends with OW, go to lunch, spend time together with her, looked for reasons to have professional contact when none was necessary, I should have gone with them and slapped on my happy face. Silly me.

Baaaa. Guess I was just one of the sheep. I look forward to Dr. Harley's book revision so I can correct all these mistakes I have made.

AM

Wow, you are all either so blinded by your anger, or just don't read all that well...

Read what I typed!

The affair is over!
My wife is currently quitting her job as I type and she will never see or speak or text or E-Mail him again. If that is not NC then please explain what is?

She knows that the reason she must do this is because the affair will only start up again if she doesn't, and she doesn't want to leave or lose me.

We are also going to see her pastor tomorrow so that we can begin counseling.

We will also be using most of the principles and tenets on the MB web site to help us strengthen our marriage so that this kind of affair will NOT happen again.

Got it?

I see that when you quoted my post, you left out the part where I explained that my wife is quitting her job and is never going to communicate with the OM ever again!

Nice going! Selective reading!

Got it. Last contact was somewhere in the neighborhood of 12 hours when you all sat around at OM's house having nice conversation. Definitely sounds like marriage recovery to me.

Still works for him

Better title: OM still working WW


"We have both done a lot of soul searching, and neither of us are fully innocent in the affair."

How is this?

Did you ask your WW to bang the OM?

Did you force your WW to bang the OM?

Did your WW choose to bang the OM on her own?

�Because I had told my wife the lie that I had not looked at her E-Mails when she asked me if I had, I couldn�t confront her about them.�

No you could of but should not of told her.

Why cut off your source of info to get your proof that WW was cheating on you?

�she had the affair and broke�. trust. I spied on her E-Mails and that wasn't justified!!! It was wrong. There is no way to justify it. End of story!�

Your WW has you wrapped around her finger. You were being harmed by your WW and had every right to use every means to find out how you were being harmed.

In the dictionary, the word door mat has your picture.

�I didn�t even give her a chance to prove to me that she could be trusted. Instead, I just assumed that the affair was still on, and did everything to prove to myself that it was.�

What did your WW do to prove the affair was over?

Has she given you access to her cell and computer?

Start using a cell that has real time GPS?

What has your WW done to rebuild your trust besides say trust me I not banging the OM any more?

You gave your WW your trust when you said your marriage vows. She broke that trust now, not you.
�She had told me that the affair was over, and I should have believed her�
Why should you believe her?

She said she would forsake all others before.

Is WW lying now or then or both?

�I had a cricket practice yesterday morning with the team that the OM is captain of. He invited my wife and I over afterwards for the afternoon and to watch some rugby on TV.�

You have learnt nothing on MB. Otherwise you would of cut the OM out of your lives and both gone NC with the OM.

The OM is laughing behind your back at how you will friend the guy that banged his WW. OM wants to keep your WW close. Close enough that in a moment of weakness on your WW�s part that he will get another go at her again.

�We went, and things were a little tense at first, but I made it clear that I knew about the affair every now and then.�

Oh yeah, you really told the OM off and have scared him away forever.

�We kept everything pretty happy go lucky, and my wife and I went home pretty late after enjoying a nice afternoon and evening.�

Yes you both went home happy. Because you are delusional and your WW keeps the OM in her life. WW keeps on getting her OM addiction fix.

�She especially apologized for having the affair, and told me that she would quit her job and break off all contact because she could now see that even though her intentions are good, and that she intends to be faithful, that she can see that the affair will probably re-start some time in the future if she doesn�t break off all contact.�

Talk is cheap. Can you afford to lose her salary then no need for WW to delay quitting.

�I know that a lot of you out there think I am some sort of coward, but in this case I do think that communication is far more powerful that exposing the affair to everyone around your wife.�

�The bottom line here is this��

Without exposure and NC the affairs usually restart with the old OM if he�s still interested. If not WW has learnt that you won�t do anything so she will just find a new OM.

�Why did I marry my wife? Because I loved her. I still love her!
Why did she marry me? Because she loved me. She still loves me!�
What does that have to do with you being a door mat, letting fear control you, refusing to expose or continue to snoop the affair is dead, and insist your WW is transparent so you can verify NC?

�What would be my motive behind exposing my wife�

WW has learnt that there will be no consequences if she was to cheat on you. WW has now learnt that you will do nothing so eventually she will cheat again.

OM has learnt that there will be no consequences if he was to bang your WW again. Eventually he will try to bang her again.

�and she would have left me.�

No WW�s threaten to leave if the BH is dumb enough to tip his hand before an exposure. WW�s also threaten after exposure that they were going to stay but now you exposed I�m leaving. Though WW�s don�t follow through on their threats.


�May the flaming begin...�

May the denial end.

Your post makes me think you need IC or are one big TROLL.

Hmm selective reading eh!

Read my post carefully. I am not trying to pick a fight. I am asking you to reread my words.

She also made an oath before God that she would be faithful. How did that work out for ya? She may well believe the words that she told you. Newsflash! An affair is an addiction. It makes liars of honorable people.

Thank you for the clarity that both of you are going before your pastor. This is good. She needs your support.

Whether you like it or not, you need to upgrade your experience of infidelity. Meditate on the concept of "Trust but verify"

Ok, you all say it is 24 hours blah blah since last contact.

How long am I supposed to dis-trust my wife?

30 years?

I have to start somewhere. The NC has started and unless I have reason to think otherwise I will believe my wife.

We have to start somewhere. If now is not the time and/or place, then when and where.

Can I change the title to "She NO LONGER works for him"?

No! It may help a little if there is NC. You are not helping by leaving her clear out her office. You go clear it out - alone. She stays home and looks for another job.

I ask your attention. Do not listen to me:

Read the articles. Understand that there is chemistry in play here that clouds judgement. There are posters here that realise what you are going through at this time. Not everyone is experienced. Confirm by reading the articles. I recommend the purchase of the book Surviving an Affair. I also most highly recommend the Word of God and prayer.

I understand the mock humour that posters use to underline your ignorance. Sorry Pal, no one thinks that they marry a cheating partner. You will find that the originator of this site says otherwise.

I am talking too much -read on.

"I have to start somewhere. The NC has started and unless I have reason to think otherwise I will believe my wife.
We have to start somewhere. If now is not the time and/or place, then when and where."

When an affair has broken the trust. To trust without verification is wrong.

Why does your WW have to be given full trust?

Why can't your WW earn back trust bit by bit?

��Can I change the title to �She no longer works for him?��

Do you mean that WW has now just resigned her job?

NC goes for you also.

How can you have anything to do with a sports team where the OM is involved?

So did she actually quit the job or say she was going to quit the job? Talk is cheap and actions speak.....

AM

do you think it odd that hurting you was easier? the fact that she dosen't want to hurt him dosen't send a flag to you?



she makes up her mind and sticks to it? what were you marriage vows? didn't you think she MADE up her mind then? unless they included more then two of you in this marriage and thats what you have, but you seem very comfortable with that so who am I to say different. Im just confused why your so heartbroke, and Im not being smart when I say that. Either you want to get to know this man in some kind of torture to see what he's all about and what the attraction is for your W or you really just don't care that your W continues her A. I guess Im just very confused whats going on here.

Wow, not only did your WS gaslight you...but she is trying to gaslighting us thru you now, right? Your post is filled with so much fogbabble(blameshifting, anger re exposure, etc) that it's hard to believe those are your words/thoughts.

Your assertion that posters that advised exposure to you have "blind rage" overlooks a couple of key things: a)this is advice that is directly from Dr Harley, his direct quotes were posted to you and b)FWSs posted the same advice to you.

Anyway, good luck to you. Why don't post back in a year and let us know how things are going??? Or better yet, start your own website since you know better than Dr. Harley and the good folks here who have recovered their marriages.

You misunderstand our position entirely, SHL. There may be some posters on here who want to 'get back' at their WS, but the majority are in recovering marriages and are trying to help you. We are not filled with "rage". If we wanted to 'get back' at our WS we wouldn't be wasting our time on here with strangers.
"Suck it up and communicate"? Have you read none of the posts about BS and WS working together, communicating, and developing the Ms they've always wanted?? My FWH is shaking his head in disbelief at your naive assumptions. We've all been there, SHL. Your W is not unique in this situation. She is a wayward. And we are truly not angry at her for putting the two of you in this position. We just know what it takes to get out of it.
Okay, SHL. Good luck with your WW and her OM. You don't need our help.

SHL,

You are making a mistake. The advice you are being given here is pretty unanimous. People here know what they are talking about, you are a novice. I was in your shoes (see my thread if you like) and I know how you feel. You may think you know your WW but ask yourself, if someone had said to you one year ago that you would be in this situation you wouldn't believe them. So obviously your WW has changed in a way you would never have expected. The aim of the advice here is how to change her back to the way she was, NOT to dole out revenge or hurt.
Open your mind to the idea you might be wrong and you will save yourself a lot of pain.

Mel, after reading the past few quotes from the OP, I've decided this entire thread is a hoax. No way any one could be that stupid. He's trying to goad us into a rage. Maybe it's some bizarre attempt to justify things, but I can't see anyone being that stupid...

This is no hoax.

I went with my WW to her pastor this morning to have a chat with him about this whole mess.

My WW basically told him the truth and all 3 of us spoke very honestly about the affair.

He basically reinforced most of what you have all been telling me, so thank you for your advise.

He agreed with everything except the exposure part, unless the WW is unwilling to go along with NC.

As of this morning I have taken my wife's cell phone away so I can monitor her text messages and calls. If any come from the OM, I ignore the calls and delete the text messages. I will be changing her cell number as well.

I also installed a key logger on both of our computers so I can see if she sets up a new gmail account, or does anything to try to contact the OM.

I have changed the passwords on all the sites like gmail, Skype and all other membership forums that she is a member of, so that she can only use them while I am with her (I have to log in for her). I have also deleted her gmail account and created a new one that the OM doesn't know about.

I have set up ALL of her E-Mails to be forwarded to my mail address, so I can see when he tries to contact her through E-Mail. Any E-Mails coming from the OM are automatically deleted by rules set on gmail so she won't see them.

Our computer screens are now next to each other so I can see what she and anyone on the other side are communicating about.

When the OM called this morning to see why my WW wasn't replying to his text message, I was the one to tell him that she has decided to disconnect permanently from him in every way possible. He was furious and told me that he thought she had more backbone than to have me tell him that. I don't care what he thinks. She quit yesterday and told him that she didn't want to see or speak to him any more. She did that face to face, and yet he still tried to get her to carry on working for him in his text message this morning.

Unreal but not unexpected!!!

While we were speaking to the pastor she seemed like she was actually happy to go along with the NC that the pastor and I have basically told her is a non-negotiable.

I can see that she is struggling with it this afternoon. She seems very depressed and withdrawn, but from what I have read on the MB site, that is to be expected. I just hope that she can get out of it ASAP for both of our sake. I seriously hate to see her like this.

She also seems to be pissed off with my attempts to monitor her location when she is out. I know why, and I will just have to expect it to happen, and help her through her withdrawal.

Thanks again

No. I caught his address when he first posted. These dudes have a very macho way of dealing with things.

At one point this territory had the highest divorce rate in the entire world. I feel sorry for him and he DOES most definitely need our help.

Are you saying then that you discussed exposure with your WW's pastor while she was present? Please tell me that that did NOT happen!



That your WW has quit the job is good news. Is the OM M'd? Exposure to his W may soon put an end to those attempts of his to continue contact with your WW.

The OM is not married.

I think that for now he is not going to try contact her, but I guess I will have to see how that goes.

I am fortunate that my WW is very very devout in Christianity, and it looks like if he is given the right encouragement from her pastor and I, she should recover in time, and our marriage can start to heal.

We will be seeing the pastor again on Thursday, and he till be counseling us.

I did discuss the exposure with the pastor with my wife there. However that work out or doesn't is to be seen, as I had told her about it a couple of weeks ago already, before I knew I shouldn't.

@imagine...

Aggressive? Funny one.

This sounds a little too neatly wrapped up. Twenty-four hours ago you were berating everyone on here about our anger and rage and explaining that you and your WW were healing just fine. You were upset with your invasion of her secrecy by reading her emails, etc. NOW you're saying she can't draw a breath that you don't know about.
Something ain't right, here...but if, indeed, you have stumbled over a 24-hour fix for a marriage broken by infidelity, you need to start writing a book.
More likely it's a case of not wanting to take advice, so I'm puzzled as to why you're on here, soliciting it?

I feel the same way, maritalbliss.

A lot of the stuff SHL believes in is contradictory to what Dr. Harley says and yet he says they are going to be using most MB principles.

maybe SHL doesn't have as good communication skills as he thinks...cuz it doesn't make sense...

Macho... But aggression is part of it!

You are very fortunate to have such a short contact period with OM. And yes, you do need our help. The term "Pride comes before a fall" has very biblical roots.

Have you ever heard of confusion and fear and anger. I was and still am feeling all of those and a lot more, so please forgive me if I was a little confused.

I think I may be heading in the right direction, but I guess it is all a bit of hit and miss, because we all make stupid mistakes and we all have to deal with them. Me included!

Sometimes it takes awhile before a BS realizes that we're in their corner because we're strangers and they don't like what we're saying. OTOH, the person they DO know (WS)is saying what the BS wants to hear, even though they more than likely are NOT in their corner. I think sometimes that notion takes some getting used to. I'm hoping SHL gets used to the idea and really decides to hear what we're saying.

The problem is since I think he told her about the MB advice he had gotten here (I'm pretty sure that's what is behind his rant re exposure vs communication to end an affair) he possibly lost a very good resource in fighting this A.

This OM is not going to back away.

WW is ripe to be tempted back because she has not gone through withdrawal. The OM knows this and will continue to try to contact WW.

Why?

Because OM has seen you will do nothing, will not make him face any consequences, because you will not expose OM to wife or work.

WW has dropped OM to fast, too easy. Some thing does not smell right. Either your WW is up too something. Or your giving us a large order of baloney.

As I said before troll.

Ok, then I won't be back, seeya

Dang - and I fed him some of my best troll food, too~

See the problem with people like this is that they think they can "outsmart the system."
There are reasons that there are EP for NC and letters, and all the other stuff, and NOT hanging out having beers with the OM.
But I guess this guy won't get it.
Enjoy recovery. Not.

Well, SHL,
I don't happen to think you are a troll. And I am guessing you will see this post because things will not be going along as well as you might think/hope.

Here's my take about a couple of possibilities:
1. The affair is going further underground. Even though you have done a good job with the computer email and passwords, cellphones, etc., WW and OM can find a way to communicate/meet. Be very cautious.

2. Even if your wife really wants NC, it is very difficult for an addict (I fully believe that these types of affairs - not all affairs - are addictions), to refrain from having contact, especially if the affair partner is trying to initiate it. As an example (yep, I was a bitter,resentful BS person for a long time - not now though, even though that's what you want to label me as), my H's affair was with a co-worker in the military. It took him about 3 and 1/2 months, to submit retirement and leave his job. During that time, the OW would initiate contact about every 7-10 days. My H refused to write an NC letter, saying it was not necessary. On his last day of work, my H and I rehearsed several times how he would respond if OW asked to talk to him and "say good-bye". He was mentally ready; BUT when she asked to talk to him, he followed her right out the door to talk to her. In this whole mess, this day was the closest I ever came to divorcing H. He ended up writing the NC letter and has not had any contact since that day. He was in withdrawal for about 6 months.

In any case, the bottom line is to be careful about what you accept/believe. Look for facts and hard evidence and give little credence to what WW or OM are telling you. As I said earlier, look for actions and not the words.

Best wishes.

AM

FWIW, AM, I don't think he's a troll, either. I DO think he's like a lot of people who initially come to boards looking for help, and don't expect what they get. To some we probably come off like a bunch of flame-eating, spittle-flecked extremists "Expose! Put up billboards! Close bank accounts!" It's a little daunting. I think if SHL comes back from time to time to get help processing the continuation of the A he'll pick up a few ideas. He didn't sound stupid, just overwhelmed.

Let's see if he heads back for tools once he gets used to the idea that his old reality is dead.

I don't think he's a troll either. I think he had a great "talk" with his WW who freaked out over exposure and that's what led to his post...but I bet he comes back when he realizes they aren't in recovery.

My experience is that the people here are so kind and giving that even if you do come back if/when your recovery hits the rocks, they will still help you in every way they can. I sincerely hope that you are the rare exception that proves the rule and that you don't need the help of MB any more.

Good luck.

SHL,

Assuming that you will continue to read for a while at least before bailing because you don't want to believe that your wife would possibly lie to you about her affair or anything like that...

First of all, the incidence of affairs within the church according to Barna Research is at least the same as it is for the society in general. In fact with the number of 60% in the society over all and among those who profess to being evangelical Christians is actually higher at 63%. Two things might be at work here with one being that Christians might be more prone to tell the truth and secondly that the actual numbers are in fact higher within the church, usually between those working together in ministry where both share the same passion about what they are doing while the spouses are either not into the same things or have no interest in the church at all.

Now as for your wife continuing to work with the OM and you actually recovering your marriage...

Probability of that is about as close to zero as you can measure without actually being impossible.

Re: The sex part being over...

For your wife it didn't start out to be about sex. For (almost) all women it is never about the sex. For women it is about the relationship in many other aspects long before sex enters into it. In fact they will often let things continue for months or even years based entirely on the belief that as long as they aren't having sex it isn't really an affair. Sex becomes the next logical step only after they admit to being in love and usually as the result of pressure form OM to prove their love for each other.

Many marriages have fallen into divorce over relationships in our modern society between people who have never even met in person. Online romances have become so common that people aren't shocked to learn of them any more. Some times these romances end up in the affair partners meeting each other in real life and other times they never do meet, often because one or the other of them is hiding something and when the suggestion to take it to the next level comes up they back out and end the relationship pretty quickly.

A couple years back there was a story on 48 Hours about a man who killed his wife. They couldn't find the murder weapon and were at a loss as to motive. But investigation showed that she had been having an online affair with what she believed was a man about ten years her junior for several months and had decided that she would divorce her husband and run off to be with her soul mate.

It was days before she ended up murdered that she found out that this man from half way across the country was in fact another woman, in the same 40 - 50 year old demographic that was playing at the whole thing out of boredom. After a few days of discussion and much anguish shared with her husband, who up to now had been wondering just what the heck was happening to his marriage, she and the OM now known to be OW decided to get together to see where things led in spite of neither of them having ever been attracted to another woman before.

Soon after the woman ended up dead, having never kept her rendezvous with her online lover. The rest of the story had to do with tying her husband to the murder weapon, but the point is that this wife and mother of three kids was willing to end her marriage over a relationship that had never even involved actually seeing each other in person let alone having sex.

Sex is not what causes the harm to the marriage. Falling in love with someone else is what causes the harm to the primary relationship.

At the same time, the affair is really only a fantasy since there doesn't need to be any real kind of relationship to maintain. There are no kids that wake up sick at 3 in the morning or laundry to do or dishes stacked up waiting to be washed or garbage waiting to be taken out. The attraction is in part to the escape from the drudgery of mundane day to day life. For the woman at least, it has almost nothing to do with the sex.

As for contact: Would you be able to work side by side with your wife and remain friends if she were to divorce you and marry this OM? Would you ever be able to not think of her as your wife, lover and mother of your children? Would you want to hang out with her and remain in close contact with her if you were going to no longer be married to her?

What I'm getting at here is that once two people become more than friends, they can't really go back to being friends. They always say that they will be "just friends" going forward but how many friends do you have that you say are "just" friends? Real friends don't require the qualifier "just" before the word friend.

Once two people become lovers, they are either lovers or ex-lovers for the rest of their lives. There is no going back and undoing what has been done.

In addition, as has been pointed out to you already, your sanity cannot be maintained under her daily spending as much time awake with him as she does with you. You will never be certain that they are only working no matter how much proof she might be able to conjure up or how many times she reassures you.

Your pastor might be a wonderful counselor. Mine had experience in this stuff, knew Dr Harley from when he lived in Minnesota, had read some of Dr Harley's stuff, had counseled a lot of couples over the years and I can tell you that if I hadn't found this place we'd be divorced now. I love him like a brother but his ability to counsel me through an affair by my wife was worse than dealing with it on my own. Traditional marriage counselor only have a success rate of about 16%. That means that 14% of all couples who attend traditional marriage counseling get divorced. The advice I got here and the things I read here saved my marriage. My pastor had no idea what to tell me to do. His idea was to try to get me to figure out what I did to cause my wife's infidelity.

If one of your kids was doing something that was immoral or illegal, would you attempt to placate them so they didn't get angry with you and throw a temper tantrum? Or would you take decisive action to prevent them from ruining their life, maybe yours and perhaps the lives of your other children as well?

Your wife is destroying your family. She is tearing it apart from the inside with the help of someone from the outside. Your job as her husband is in part to prevent her from hurting herself and your children.

As they might say in Texas...

Cowboy up!

Bull riders only have to last 8 seconds. I'm afraid your ride has to go a lot longer and until you strap up, mount up and the gate opens up, you haven't even started the counting...

No ride, no score.

No bull...

Mark

Well said, Mark.

Excellent Mark!
Would you mind re-posting that to thread:"Struggling to save marriage as i am the WH"
This person is still working with OW and claims there is nothing emotional at all when seeing this person day to day, and isn't happy with the fact that he can't just walk in the door and hug the W and ask how her day was, he walks in and is asked about OW and if they were in contact, what transpired, etc. please also read his version of NC letter, if your on that thread please forgive me, I just didn't recall seeing you there, but he could certainly use you!

Well...

I am "StillHurtingLots". Lost my login details, so created a new login.

It has been a little over a year since I was last here, and I just want to say a few things about what has been going on since then.

I can happily say that my wife and I are very much in recovery.

My wife and I spent a lot of time with her pastor, speaking about the A, and she has made a lot of changes.

I am not going to go into much detail here, other than to say that I did pretty much everything that I was "supposed" to do.

I still have a key logger installed on both our computers, her cell number has been changed 2 times, and I check the records of calls to make sure there are no calls to or from him. I have access to satellite tracking on her car.

She no longer works for him or communicates with him in any way at all.

Things seem to be going pretty well.

I doubt I will ever entirely get over what she did, but I am slowly beginning for forget.

I have found something out about myself over the last year or so that surprises me...

I have the urge to help other people who have gone through what I did.

I'm no expert, but I do still think that communication is the key. That and a total, complete and non-negotiable disconnection with the OP.

There were a lot of people who gave me a pretty hard time here, telling me to man up, and grow a set of balls.

Then there were those of you who gave good advice, in a nice supportive way.

Thank you to all those who helped.

1 Year and counting. With a lot of hard work, honesty and communication, there will be another 40 years.

"I have the urge to help other people who have gone through what I did.

I'm no expert, but I do still think that communication is the key. That and a total, complete and non-negotiable disconnection with the OP"

Sound like a expert to me. You have Graduated from the School of Hard Knocks.

Bravo for you, Cheat! The key to recovery from an affair is complete no contact, as you said...AND creating and maintaining a romantic relationship. It really does work if you use it in its entirety:

Learning to communicate is secondary to falling in love. Learning to communicate will not save a marriage; falling in love WILL.

here

Hi there "Cheatonme" this is wonderful news. Marriage is work, never be completely satisfied.

I rejoice in your happiness. God bless!

Our 6th Anniversary is coming up in about 11 days!

We are pretty much happier and way more in love, now, than we have ever been. This and the fact that we are still together and working towards our marriage together all the time, will make it all that much more enjoyable.

If I can just say a little something about my observations...

Before my wife had her A, both of us had gotten into the routine of being married. By this I mean that we just went about life together as if there was little more to our lives than the kids, money problems, work and making sure that our basic needs were met.

By "basic needs" I mean things like eating, cleaning ourselves, sleeping, having sex and looking after the kids.

We were doing all these things and pretty much ignoring the real needs of our relationship. Not just my wife, but me too!

I'm not making excuses for her having the A. She had no right to do it in the first place. Period!
She knows this and is horribly ashamed and humiliated about what she did, and is totally committed to making our marriage stronger than ever.

All the snooping and spying on her that I did was fully justified and I am glad to say she agrees with me on that. She is even happy that I loved her enough to do it all and fight for our marriage as hard as I did.

In the course of our communicating since the A, I have found out a lot about her needs and desires on the things that she feels she needs from me as her husband. She on the other hand has also gotten the same from me, and we both now try to provide the emotional and physical needs that the other needs and wants.

All of the things that made us fall in love in the first place are still there and we have discovered lots of new ones as well. We just stopped using them to keep our relationship a happy one.

I do have to wonder what would have happened to us if she didn�t have the A. Where would we be today? Happy? Unhappy?

Right now, our relationship is in a place that it has never been in the almost 10 years that we have been together. We love each other more than ever, and our love seems to be growing every day. We are happy and in a really twisted kind of way, I am happy that we got the wake up call that we did! It would have been nice if it wasn�t in the form of an Affair, but that�s how it worked out for us, and we both have to live with it.

Some things that we have learned...

Never take your spouse for granted.
Never assume that you don�t need to let your spouse know that you love him/her.
Try to never go to bed mad at each other.
Always be honest.
Do something as often as you can to show your spouse that you love him/her.
If you don�t already communicate well, learn how to and do it.

Just my 2c worth.

Marriage is always an uneven experience. Bottom line, the closer you both know God means the stronger your marital ties.

How is your finances since she quit the job?

Finances are not bad. We weren't relying on her income yet as she only really worked for him for a few weeks. Basically the duration of the A I think.

Hi there CheatOnMe,
I'm so glad that things have worked out in your marriage, you are doing all the right things and if you two continue to work at keeping each other happy and having faith in yourselves, you can't lose.
Affairs are an eye opener, I sometimes think to myself where would we be in our marriages if that eye opener hadn't happened.......
Not that it's ever right.....
Remember that blind trust is a mistake that BS spouses make, check once in a while, watch, listen to the clues. This way you will be able to fix things quickly.......
Enjoy your new life and the next 40 years...............