My wife and I have been having this ongoing argument since I found out she was having an online affair on January 5th. She said I never paid enough attention to her and that caused her to look elsewhere. We have been married 18 years and have 2 great children. I have my own international business that requires me to travel and work long-hours, even weekends sometimes. I have done this because I am driven and type-A, but also so I can provide the lifestyle for her and my children that make them happy. Now all this hard work has supposedly come back to bite me.

When I found out about the electronic affair, I was angry and hurt but took the time to discuss with her why she did it. Once she told me her reasons, I offered my permission (not that she needed it) to meet this man and see if he was "all that" in person like she said he was over the computer and phone. The plan was for her to spend 3 days with him to discover his personality. I did this because I have been with her for almost 23 years and I regard her as someone I know better than anyone else on earth. I wanted her to meet him because I didn't want it to be thrown back in my face later how she had not met him.....plus I knew that she would probably sneak behind my back and meet him anyway. She promised me that she would not sleep with him, and she doubly promised that there would be no oral sex because she said "oral sex was special between us and that it required comfort and intimacy she would not share with anyone else." Well......she me the guy on Monday, January 18th for the first time that evening. She returned home that night at 1:30am to remove her make-up and crawl into be with me wanting to snuggle and make out. After a few minute discussion of her evening, she told me that she made out with him and that they had each other's shirts off but it went no further. This admission saddened and depressed me so, that I got up from bed and ended up all night with no sleep.

The following morning she noticed I was very upset and depressed and she consoled me telling me that he had traits she didn't like and that she still loved me. She intended on seeing him again that day and the following as originally established. I allowed her to stay in his hotel, because she assured me that they had separate hotel rooms. I did call the hotel to confirm that and it was true. That night she texted me numerous times saying that he was driving her crazy and that he was not totally what she thought. That night at 11:30 we texted each other again and she told me she was going to her room, shower, and go to sleep because she was tired.

The following morning, she texted me at 5:30am saying she missed me and said she would be home early that they were not going out for the day like planned. She arrived at home about 10:30am and that evening she admitted to me that she slept with him Monday night (even tbough she had told me she hadn't) and that Tuesday night they had sex twice and slept in the same bed.....not in her room, in her bed as she had promised. I was so hurt and angry that I felt like shooting myself....but I didn't. She further admitted that she had given him oral sex, even though she had promised she wouldn't and that they did not use a condom at all. This disgusted me to the point that I almost threw up.

We have been seeing a counselor and things are getting better, but I am having such a hard time dismissing the affair and the sex. She tells me that I need to "get the F#&K over it, that I am dwelling in the past." Further more she feels that the affair is not the issue at all.....and they "our problems" are the bigger issue. I agree that our problems are important to work through, but I still can't get over the affair.

CAN SOME PLEASE GIVE ME ADVICE? I am willing to answer any questions.

This is totally nuts. Are you serious!!!

God's Blessings,

Say

You blessed her affair so what is the complaint? You ENABLED her affair.

I don't get what the problem is. If you drive the bank robber to the bank and give him your blessing to rob the bank then on what possible grounds can you complain? That makes no sense.

Do your CHILDREN know you did this to their family? Do they know you wouldn't stand up for them? That you drove the robber to the bank?

I gave her permission to meet him, otherwise it would come back to haunt me. I did not give her permission to sleep with him, nad I was assured by her than her clothes would stay on. I came her for advice.....not to be berated.

Do you recognize how ridiculous this sounds? You sent your wife to stay at a hotel with another man to see if she was as attracted to him as she thought? What did you think would happen? This is just crazy. Who would just give their wife away like that?

You definitely have to deal with the affair, but you essentially gave it your blessing which is going to make it an epic battle for her to ever feel remorse for it. Even if she does come to feel remorse for cheating, she is probably going to blame you for not standing up for your family.

The best advice I can give in this crazy situation is that you call the Harleys. They were a lot better than the local counselor I started with when I was dealing with my ex-WW's affairs.

GentJohn, you enabled this affair, Sir. If you can't face that truth, then you are doomed to make this mistake again. You set this up to happen. You gave her permission and your blessing for your wife to meet her affair partner, so of course they had sex.

Can you see that giving your wife permission to meet her affair is what is "haunting" you?

Well that's a new one.

Can I ask why you so implicitly trusted her to not cheat when she had already admitted to an emotional affair? A physical affair is the next logical progression.

As far as not giving her permission would come haunt - if your marriage wsa on that shaky a ground you should have been saying marriage counselling, not compare the men

And your not getting berated, we are just trying to work out why you would be so oblivious about the potential consequences.

The one thing that I have always told my FWH is that I had no part in the decision for him to betray me. You gave permission. I just don't know what to say.

God's blessings,

Say

GentJohn, you did not fight for your marriage in it's time of greatest need. You handed her over to another man, with your blessing. What kind of a man does that? And you have kids!

You handed your marriage over to the enemy and are now complaining that the enemy sullied it. What kind of a loving husband does that?

Your disconnect from reality is almost as bad as her's.

First of all, it is very common for women to want the fruits of a type A worker male, while at the same time pi**ing and moaning about the lack of a satisfying emotional connection since he works so hard bringing home the bacon. Nuts. . .

For almost every success, it boils down to tons of work and long hours. Been there, done that, got the T-Shirt.

Such a situation requires a level of communication free of guilt trips from either end and most of us are simply not able to really communicate at the level required.

Okay, on to another deal.

Dude, what were you thinking? I ask that because your explanation makes absolutely no sense at all. Are you on a mission to get rid of her? Have you got some honey waiting in the wings. Your story just doesn't work for me. My BS detector is on full alert.

If your story is real, then you are at the right place to get straight. Just don't look for much appreciation for your point of view. People here have a very low tolerance for those who enable adultery. If you go away because you can't handle the critique, then you lose what could be a good education in the land of reality.

Larry

GentJohn, the is deserved, since you played the doormat when you should have been playing the man in your relationship.

However, there are still things you can do to put your marriage right. And that's what this site is for.

Have you read the Basic Concepts? Do you understand about meeting each others' emotional needs, avoiding love busters, and especially the EXTRAORDINARY PROTECTIONS the two of you must take to prevent a recurrence of this tragedy?

In essence, you handed the car keys and a bottle of booze to a teenager and then expected her not to drive. YOU CANNOT DO THIS. But you cannot unring a bell, so it's now important that both you and your wife work to understand how this came to be and how to prevent it from ever happening again.

You can get that kind of information here, but first you're going to have to get through the . You understand that, do you not?

Amen, Larry!

God's Blessing,

Say

a timeless nursery rhyme

Mother, may I go out to swim?
Yes my darling daughter.
Hang your clothes on the hickory limb,
but don't go near the water
You may look cute in your bathing suit.
But act just like you oughter
Now and then you may flirt with the men,
But don't go near the water.

GF

I don't believe a word of this story.

The question is... How do you know that her cheating days are over? Because of this association she will villify you and make renewed attempts to contact OM.

Your wife needs to get out of the fog. Expose her affair. She has betrayed the families trust. Apologise to them for your error of judgement. Enlist their help.

Place recording devices in your wife's car and monitor her telephone. It is time to protect your marriage.

Read His needs/Her needs -Dr Harley. Apologise also to your wife for not properly defending your marriage. DON'T apologise for her adultery. Your marriage sounds like it needs rebuilding. Check whether your may attend a MB week-end course.

I am not trying to be mean 'GJ', but your story is wild dude, its like one of those Penthouse stories.....UFR.

GentJohn,

I am curious, have you had an affair in the past and somehow you thought giving your wife this odd "free pass" would somehow even the score?

I am also curious, what was your plan if your wife found dude irresistable and they ran off into the sunset together?

Do you and your wife have a history of swinging?

It probably makes no difference, but this whole situation is very unbelievable. So a little more info regarding your motivation might help.

***edit***

Hello GentJohn,

Like others I'm not sure if your post is real or not but I'll err on the side that it is.

If you're still reading and you are sincere, please pull up your bootstraps and try to absorb what people are saying in trying to help you.

Your story is wild and unbelievable.

So was mine.

You seem to be feeling like people are attacking you instead of helping you.

So did I...in fact, I initially misunderstood a concept and got blasted by well-meaning posters but in my distraught mindset, I felt similar to the "berated" state you describe. Only one poster defended my erroneous position so I left the forums after only a few posts.

Why? Because I felt berated?

No, I left to do more intense research for what eventually took two weeks.

I sent an email to the Marriage Builders staff, trying to find out more information about my issue (whether or not to expose to OWH 6 months after verifiable NC). Amazingly Dr. Harley himself answered and suggested I call the radio show so on Jan. 31, 2007, I was able to ask ~ and Dr. Harley and Mrs. Harley personally answered my question for free ~ on MB Radio. (You can still hear the recorded segments but unfortunately they are not taking new questions at this time.)

After I followed their advice, I came back to the forums to thank the one poster who made an effort to stand up to the masses. For me, at that time, the issue was not whether we were right or wrong. The fact that this one poster believed my sincerity and tried to help (even if we were both sincerely wrong), motivated me to research further. As it turned out, Dr. Harley suggested a different way to proceed than what the masses had suggested and eventually I did the opposite of what the poster who helped me had said worked for their M. But because this one person took massive shots on my behalf (which made me want to seek deeper insights), I was grateful and wanted it to be known. (My Thank you thread set off another firestorm but that's another story for another time.)

Three years later my now Former Wayward Husband (FWH) and I are into recovery and I don't post much anymore but your story caught my eye.

Why?

Because I thought about doing something similar to what you said you did.

My then-WH and OW were involved in a phone/mail/cyber EA which progressed to a PA when they started phone/cyber sex.

After 3 D-Days, I decided that I wanted my then-WH to be able to make a better evaluation as to whether or not he wanted to choose OW or me. I was frustrated for many reasons (story in my Saga linked to my sig line). I honestly thought it would come back to haunt me if I did not give him the opportunity to meet OW to see what she was like. I wanted him to choose me because he wanted to, not because I had caught him and cut him off from OW.

I offered to buy us both tickets to fly across the country to meet OW.

Fortunately, he declined.

I figured that was the end....right?

Wrong.

Why?

I did not realize until months later when I discovered the book Surviving An Affair by the owner of this web site (and subsequently discovered these forums) that withdrawal from the addiction of an A is real and that it takes time to process. Strategy and planning can enhance one's endurance (and speed things up for some), but it still will take time (and work and research).

I also discovered that it was not too late to save our M and possibly rebuild it to a better state than it was in prior to all that led to his EA/PA.

If you're sincere and you're still reading, GentJohn, please take time to read all the letters and articles on this web site. Decipher the forum posts that have helpful tips that you can use. As your trauma subsides, time will help your perspective change so that more might seem helpful.

The best thing you could do is call the MB phone counseling center to get professional assistance. You can't change your wife or undo what you've done. But you can get a plan to recover yourself and eventually your marriage.

Wishing you well in your endeavors,

Ace

Not sure what was said while we were simulposting but I'll leave my post anyhow.

Ace

This does seem somewhat farfetched: a husband finding out about an online affair and endorsing a tryout to see if his wife is compatable with the guy.

If you really did say okay to this, I still think the bulk of the responsibility lays with your WW, as she promised not to get physical with the guy. Not sure what you were thinking in consenting to the meeting.
I do not understand the justification that you did not want to have this thrown in your face at a later date. After all, if she did throw something like this back in your face, surely, you can see that her resentment would not be justified and she was taking an irrational and immoral position. Who would care if soemone did something like that, as she would have no baisis for her protestation?

Focus on the posts that offer suggestions. Why start a fight?

Gent,

If you're for real, then you'll need to own up to the fact that you brought this on yourself by letting her meet this man. The decision to let her meet him has indeed come back to haunt you.

Now, you need to start fixing your marriage and it starts with exposure, manning up, and following the principles on this site.

At first glance, it seems farfetched but then again, I think about my own mindset following the discovery of H's EA. I bought him a one way ticket to OW's city! It was more along the lines of "get the f--- outta here and let her deal with you" than "go see if there's anything there between you two" but was it really all that different than what GentJohn tried to do?

Fortuantely, my H refused to use the ticket. Who knows what would have happened if he had. She was a HS girlfriend and I still think that if he had just showed up on her doorstep, she might have freaked. But there's no telling, really.

Sure.

1. Tell your wife that swearing at you is not allowed.

2. Tell your wife you are in great pain.

3. Tell your wife it will take time to heal. Possibly years to get over her betrayal.

4. Buy the book Surviving an Affair - and read it together.

I have never cheated and the story is 100% true. The ONLY reason I gave her permission to MEET this guy was so in the future if we were to argue or have troubles she wouldn't throw back in my face that she should have met him or regreted not meeting him in some way. I trusted her (my error) that when she said she would not have sex with him that it was honest. And if I had not given her permission to meet him, she would have done it anyway behind my back.

And this is a huge part of the problem, GJ. Do you see this was a huge mistake? Your wife was already having an emotional affair wtih this man. The solution to an emotional affair is NOT to explore those feelings and go sleep with the man, but to AVOID HIM AT ALL COSTS.

I don't see how we can help you if you don't see what a huge mistake this was.

I can possibly see where I brought the sex on myself for allowing the kid to have keys to the candy store, but I had no part in the several month emotional affair. And no one knowing my wife on this site, but me, no one knows but me that she would have never let me live it down if she could not have met him. What disgusts me so much is that she had oral sex with him, and that the first night when she crawled into be to be with me she didn't brush her teeth or shower.

GJ,
What you did was akin to giving a loaded pistol to a young child to play with and warning them whatever you do don't pull the trigger.

And now your WW wants to sweep all this under the rug. Until next time. Expect there will be further contact between the two of them.

You have a lot of work to do.

All Blessings,
Jerry

Again, John, the fear of her throwing this back in your face makes no sense to me. It would be as if I feared my wife yelling at me down the road for not letting her cash in my 401k to buy lottery tickets or something. I would laugh at her if she cited my refusal as inappropriate.
That said, I do acknowledge that with the recnt discovery of the online cheating, you may not have been firing on all cylinders and, perhaps, in you traumatized state, you went along with this.
There is a genuine issue as to whether your endorsement actually facilitated the affair. After all, she was already cheating and there is a decent likeliehood she would have taken this to the phsyical level even had you not consented to her meeting the guy.
Many of us did some enabling early on, as we were misguided, traumatized, and completely in the dark about approprite response to something that was unimagineable to us.

Never, ever let your WW allege that you were complicit in her decision to cheat, regardless of whether you could have responded differently.
As another poster has referenced, it is not an auncommon response for a BS to tell the Ws to go to her lover. This response reflects the BS's philosophy that he or she should not have to do battle with a WS or her lover to enforce vows that the WS should abide by voluntarily, without coercion. It is somewhat demeaning to some BSs to have to "fight" for somoeone in order to have that person submit to being faithful.
If you have to coerce someone to remain faithful , where is the value in their fidelity.
You need to expose your wife's cheating to all that are close to you, IMO. She needs to feel the consequences as she needs to develop a conscience and empathy.

You now have the choice to try to recover or not. Owning your part is the first step. No you did not cause the EA which led to the PA, but you need to look at what you may have contributed to the state of your marriage pre A.

Ace

Of course you had no part in the EA, but instead of helping your wife do the right thing and end the affair, you enabled it. About like handing the car keys to a drunk driver because you didn't want to make her mad. That is very poor judgment, and I hope you can see that now. Your wife is responsible for this affair, but you are responsible for enabling it. She needs you to help her be her BEST, not her WORST. That is what love is. There is nothing loving about helping someone be BAD.

The realization of your role in this sorry tale is the first step towards recovery.

I feel this is a poor analogy for a number of reasons.

First, as should be obvious, we have the distinction between a young child and an adultin terms of expierience and responsibility.
Second, the "pistol" that was handed to the "child" was already in this adult's possession. She was already cheating.

Third, as opposed to the authority one has over a child, he had no real means of enforcement, other than her voluntary compliance too his objection. As we have all seeen, in many, mnay cases , the Ws just does whatever he or she wants regardless of the BS's objection.

And a child does not know the consequences of pulling a trigger.....an adult does.

GJ, IMO, it was a FU to consent to her seeing this guy. I guess we could spend a lot of time guessing what would have happened had you said no way.There is a decent likeliehood that she would have simply gone and done him, anyway.

So, do you want to stay with her? She sounds pretty messed up? Is she worth it? Do you have prospects of a better life without her? What type of person is she , aside from her cheating?

And you did not recognize the consequence of giving permission ...

I bet you do now!

Is your wife a difficult woman, in general?
Swearing at you is uncalled for.
Why do you allow it?

John, as others have pointed out, your reasoning is faulty. Her throwing this back in your face later in life is completely baseless. Will you be a slave to all of her irrational demands for fear of them being thrown back at you? If my wife had attempted to make such a demand of me, I would have told her that it was her choice, but if she chose to do it, she would not have a home to come back to because I would not share her with anyone. You cannot be a slave to fear of your wife's irrational anger. All you have really done is reinforce that she can control you with it.

So, I think we can stop harping on that now. But I think you are going to have a more difficult time than most in getting your wife to truly feel remorseful. So what do you do now? I still recommend that you counsel with the Harleys as they are better than almost all other counselors for building healthy marriages, imo.

Does your wife still think the meeting was the appropriate thing to do? Not the sex, but meeting him to explore her feelings?

Technically, he gave permission for a meeting, not sex.
No doubt it was misguided, but, to be accurate, he did not consent to his wife doing this guy.

She is very controlling and overbearing and OCD. I might be better off without her, but she has never worked and it would definitely cramp my lifestyle to maintain 2 households.....

Do you love her?

Yes I love her, but the more I am thinking about this the more I am thinking she is toxic

And a wayward spouse is more childlike than a child themself.

All Blessings,
Jerry

.... based on ?

GJ sez: "What disgusts me so much is that she had oral sex with him, and that the first night when she crawled into be to be with me she didn't brush her teeth or shower".

WTF? This is wrong on so many counts...does she normally go to bed without brushing her 'teefs' and to top it off, not bathing?

No hold on, to top it off she gave oral to the OM, THEN failed to do what most of us do, you know, at the end of a normal day of only eating food.

Her behavior

Kids, length of marriage,finances and love all play a role in the decision.
How do you feel about the prospects of remaing with an overbearing, harsh, OCD type? There are meds for OCD. Has she availed herself of these?
If someone is really messed up and will not get help, you have to start looking out for yourself. Sometimes, they bottom out and get help. Other times , they take you down with them
Your wife is a very dangeous person. dangerous not only to your emotional well being, but to your phsycial health, as well.
She had no compunction about exposing you to STDs, potentially deadly ones. That is truly scary and says a lot about her.

Exactly, a child has the excuse of being a child, an adult acting as a child has no such protection.

You have to support accusations.
This is your 18 year marriage with 2 kids you are talking about.

Don't get all lazy with your responses, please.

I disagree. Children make poor decision based on lack of expierience. WSs have the expierience but choose to ignore it. Much more responsibility for an adult making a knowing choice. Just like addictions. There is a big informed, volitional element.

You do realize that your WW needs to be completely tested for STD's and HIV now, right?

All Blessings,
Jerry

I guess what I meant to say Z, is that a WS may have the knowledge to make better decisions, but it's all about me, me, me, even more so than many children.

All Blessings,
Jerry

The fact that she is controlling, OCD, etc and that she had the affair

I see.
Well, best of luck to you.
Take advantage of all the articles and basic concepts on this site.

I agree. That is why their behaviors are more repugnant than the mistakes kids make.

PRECISELY!!!!!!!!

All Blessings,
Jerry

I'm in agreement with Zelmo on all of this.

And I personally do not believe the original poster of this thread should blame himself for his wife sleeping with the other man.

Had he been armed with the knowledge we have accumulated by reading on this board about affairs, he probably would have made different choices. But even if he had that knowledge, and still made the same decisions, it still wouldn't excuse his wife's behavior.

If my husband gave me permission to meet some guy at a motel, "I" would still be responsible for my behavior. I am not a puppet, and neither is this man's wife.

He didn't give her puppet permission to sleep with the OM anyway, he gave her what God gives us, free will.

Gent:

You not getting the response you expected are you?

You wanted help in "Surviving an Affair", and your first attempts went the wrong way, didn't they?

Not unexpected, you were completely out of your element, weren't you?

You stated that you ran an international business. Maybe you in sales. (Maybe not, but to truly successful, you need to sell, even if its only yourself and your business...)

So maybe, you thought by agreeing to having your WW meet the POSOM, (which, full disclosure, I used to be) maybe you were thinking of that old sale technique of "try the other product, and then you will come back to ours because it is better"

Actually, we can come up with all sorts of theories as to why you agreed to what you agreed to. One, you had just discovered practically the worst thing a spouse can find out about thier partner. Two, You KNEW you were better than OM. Three, you negotiated with her, and she agreed to terms with you. Four, and this is where everything went off the rails, SHE DIDN'T STAAY WITH THE AGREEMENT.

And that's the crux of your problem. You had never dealt with a wayward wife before, and how they will agree to anything to continue thier "fix". Sure, in your business, I'm sure you have dealt with some less than perfect business people, but you protect yourself up front by getting legal agreements, or information regarding those folks that can protect you.

And you had been married to this woman for 18 years. And I will presume that in many cases she seemed a responsible, even caring person to you. You have since backed off a little, calling her OCD and other things....

Your going to go back through your entire marriage looking for reasons to paint her as the worst, or best, wife and mother. Its a natural reaction. How could you have picked the wrong person? People change. She may not have been anything like this 15-20 years ago. Maybe not even 2 years ago. Doesn't matter, she is this way NOW.

This MB stuff is about building a better marriage and way of doing things. This DB is good for the immediate issues, and rants and "what do you guys think" posts. But for serious fixing the issues in your marraige, you need to call the Harleys and schedule some time with Dr. Harley and telephone consuling. Maybe attand the next MB weekend in Minneapolis.

Yes, your wayward wife should be doing these things. But right now? Your the only one with a clear head that can make choices that make sense for the future. Your first choice about the meeting was wrong, but you can recover from that and make better choices in the future. Your costs for coaching with Harleys may be much less than an actual divorce.

Oh, about the lack of brushing and mouthwash? Yeah, that's disgusting... but she wanted to be with YOU afterward, didn't she? She wanted your approval after the fact, didn't she? How wrong is that? This isn't like the woman you married is it?

And this is the final note: YOUR IN CHARGE HERE. WW? She has nothing. Only hollow threats and anger. You hold all the cards. She cheated, and you have the "get out of marriage free" card. You can decide to work this marriage and try to get to recovery because it the right thing for you to do. You can give it your all for the next couple of months, and maybe you can recover your marriage. You can also just throw in the towel. I prefer the trying all you can do to fix it before throwing in the towel, because that is what is best for your kids in the long run.

If not, then she is bounced from this marriage because of HER ACTIONS. Not yours.

Sorry you have to be here. Your in the best place to fix this though.

LG

Also? You may decide that no matter what, you

That sums it up nicely LG.

Well now, some of the dynamics are starting to raise their ugly heads.

1. Wimp: definition of a male who does not act to protect his mate from predatory males looking for a rut. And trust me on this one; high school females are famous for starting fights that serve the purpose of both enhancing their importance AND sorting out who is the physically superior male. Later on in life, those same female critters develop more sophisticated methodologies to sort out the same two traits, usually by adding money to the equation.

2. Justification: It ain't gonna happen here for the most part. What the both of you did cannot be justified except on the altar of immaturity and lack of judgment. If you are here to be supported, then consider finger pointing a form of support. In other words, if you are hear to learn, then pay attention. If you are here to rationalize the sign you are hauling around, expect the opposite.

3. Recommendation: Get professional help. The Harleys tend to be expensive per session, but they take far fewer sessions to provide guidance, so overall, they tend to be the cheapest way to go AND in my opinion, the most competent. The ethics of your situation indicate that both of you are living in lala land,

4. Grow a pair: Your comments indicate to me that your wife is leading you around by the nose and you don't think it is worth the effort to man up and provide the leadership your association needs. After a while, you will get tired of hauling all the water and if she doesn't learn to fly with you, will probably get a divorce. But for the sake of your own manhood at the fate of your kids, you gotta shoulder the load for a while to see if she can grow up and be a partner. You too pal.

5. Recognize: You are as muddled and confused as anyone would be who started down the dead end road you picked. Instead of trying to find excuses, start learning.

Larry

+10 this is the post of the day!

The ONLY reason I gave her permission to MEET this guy was so in the future if we were to argue or have troubles she wouldn't throw back in my face that she should have met him or regreted not meeting him in some way

You didn't give her permission because she didn't NEED your permission.

You gave her your BLESSING...BIG difference.

committed

I'm getting a smidge tired of all the men who come here and don't want to upset their precious perfect WWs.

Aren't men willing to defend what is theirs anymore?

Hi commie!!

Hi There yourself.

I see that you are still busy.

I haven't visited the site in forever and there are so many new names...but sadly, the stories are still old.

commie

'Larry', brother you just made a great post, spot on.

****edit****

If you are still dealing with the type of female interested in pitting you against other guys, at the adult stage of life, you are in for an exhausting life, IMO. Nothing wimpish about bailing on someone that would consent to a "rut" based on her perception of who is the "alpha " male.
Life is too short to worry about marking your territory and battling for the right to have sex with your mate. Leave that for the mountain goats.

Well, uh, guess it is confession time.

See it is that I was a wimp for 30 days after I learned that my wife had put horns on my head. It was a fairly UNIQUE circumstance and I was knocked off my feet and out of my head.

I called the suicide hot line and got an old goat in Dallas as the lay counselor who was the designated phone person on the late night nutcase protective society line. Just making a joke out of my pitiful act, so please don't take that last line seriously.

Anyway, old goat and me had a lot in common as he figured out in a minimum of time before hitting me upside the head with verbal two by fours. Rather than whining about it, I listened.

Shortly, embarrassed and more than a bit humiliated by my equivalent of Cockold Wimp John's stupid sign act, I returned to my roots. Uh, Wimp John is a famous writer of Internet Story Porn from the Usenet years ago. I am not comparing him to the current John and this thread. It was me being the wimp.

Ask my best friend from way back when, I used to prove my manhood (or ability to carry a stupid sign) by picking on guys bigger than me who I thought deserved it. Yea, I got beat up a lot. I also wounded a few egos and seldom had to fight that particular cretin again. Okay, so I'm Irish.

Anyway, I hoisted up my male identity and called my wife, who was out "shopping" with the OM. I told her to get her sorry [censored] home, that I had made up my mind and had some things to say to her. She ordered low life to drive her home. I could hear cussing in the background. Guess I messed up his plans for that night.

In the ultimatum that followed, I never raised my voice. I did not pummel the OM into a smear on the ground although I gave him about 30 seconds to depart the scene before I so did. I simply made my position crystal clear. As it turns out, my wife decided that of the choices I gave her, dropping the OM and staying with me was the best.

I can smell it when a male BS is rolling over wanting someone to rub his belly. And I ain't playing that game. Just as 2 used take apart the pretensions of WS, it is my job, based on experience, to bluntly and completely blow apart the ego protection racket practiced by BS who make excuses instead of progress.

So there you have it.

This thread is attracting a lot of well deserved attention, so let me take this opportunity to say something else. We finally divorced. See, you can forgive but sometimes you can't forget.

And that applies to both parties.

My now ex-wife and I still have a great and caring relationship. Oh, and the two guys she has dated since we split are so jealous of me it is just plain funny.

For the record, you can be a man without being controlling.
For the record, you can be a man without abusing your wife.
For the record, you can be a man and still be a partner for your wife.
For the record, you can be a man and rely on your wife for those areas where she is strong.
For the record, you must be a man or your wife will not respect you.
For the record, you must be a man so those little people who depend on you, know what one is.

Thanks to those who liked my post. More will be coming in times forward from here.

Larry

I think being a strong person, man or woman, involves letting folks know that you will not be treated like dirt.

Hey Zelmo


Too true. Now go back and read John's posts and tell me who and what he is dealing with. Then think about how he is dealing with it.

Would that we could all be associated with sane grownups. As it turns out, when we first get attached to someone, we seldom have the mental ability to know who they really are.

Guys get attached to their jobs, especially high profile or demanding jobs. They have a "Wife" at home who fits into this projected mold. Years later something happens to show the guy he had no idea who he was married to.

It happens a bunch.

Larry

Yeah, apparently , it does, Larry. Then the guy has to decide if he wants to stay with someone like this. Usually, in this society, a successful wage earner is going to have other options, options that, perhaps, permit him to relax and avoid having to stay ever vigilant.
I have no illusions that many women, like men, are dogs who will have sex with whoever appeals to him or her at a given moment.
John's WW, is a pretty messed up woman. Question is , is this temporary ro is it who she is at heart.
And, another question is whether he wants to have to deal with a tainted marriage, now. I think it is his call.

We need some more info from this poster:

Any kids?

What was her behavior like before she went wayward?

Is she very needy of attention?

Is this the result of being alone a lot?

We need some more background.

Also, the horse is dead. He gets the fact that it might have been a big mistake (it was) to have agreed to let her meet the man. There's no point in dwelling on that any further.

Let's help him figure out where to go from here.

So what's the situation? You love her, but that, as you have acknowledged, isn't enough.

Why would you want to keep her in your life? Why would divorce be better?

Are you afraid of her anger? How is she acting now?

Hey GentJohn,

Like you I posted on a weekend and then didn't post for a few days until someone (I think it was Chrisner) bumped my thread and asked how it was going.

Even if I don't post much now (3 years later) I thought I'd ask you.......are you still around?

How's it going?

What, if any decisions have you made?

Wishing you well,
Ace