Hi,
Married 6 years, 1 child. Spouse has been having affair with close coworker, possibly for as long as 2-3 years. After having an icky feeling, I discovered text messages about 2 years ago between them. Marriage wasn't going well at time but I believed him when he said that she was flirting with him, he knew it was inappropriate and that it would stop. Flash forward to 6 months ago - I had another icky feeling and I drove past her house one day. His car was there. I confronted him. He made up a story. I so wanted to believe him.

Just recently, I discovered more evidence via phone messages. Again, he denies. We just started marriage counseling but the affair has not come up yet. We are working on communication skills. We have both started working on the marriage but there is an elephant in the room. I try to bring up the subject but he won't answer me. I know it's still going on.

I think the affair should be exposed to clear the air and I think it's the only way it'll stop. However, he is her boss. They've been using work time and computers to carry on their affair. It's complicated but his work is such a part of who he is that if I tell him leave work or else, he won't. And I think he'll interpret it as me being controlling, a complaint he's had about me. She's been at that job for years too so I don't think she'd leave. I don't want him to get fired but if they continue to work together, the affair will never end. She'll always be an outlet for him. And I've let this go on too long.

I want the marriage to work. I acknowledge that I wasn't meeting his needs. I am changing that little by little. He's also given some indication that he's ready to meet my needs - just not to disclose or end the affair at this time. Any advice?

PS-Just ordered Surviving an Affair. Also read Love & Respect.

Welcome to the MB, the best place to be in your circumstances.

I hope you will read a lot of stuff here.

But a few points for start:

1) As long as there is an affair, your marriage will not recover. Even more - as long as there is any kind of contact between affair partners, your marriage will not recover.
2) Recovery can start AFTER affair is killed and NC established.
3) The best weapon to kill the affair is exposure.
4) Exposure should be done without warning OM or WW and within shortest time possible. Exposure should start from OWH.
5) As long as there is an affair, counseling is waste of time.

Of course your WH does not give up work or OW. Why should he? But the main question is what do YOU accept?

Read HERE.

Fuzzy, I am sorry that you are here and welcome to Marriage Builders. Read through that link that recon linked and ask any questions you may have.

It seems from your first post that you have read a lot on here and you understand what is about to happen and what you are going to need to do.

Exposure to their workplace is definitely going to have to happen. YOU are not the one who is going to have them fired. Even if they do get fired, which they may not, it is because of THEIR actions. It is quite possible that the workplace, and most definitely people in the workplace, knows already. Now, they would have to DO something about it.

In that thread that was linked, you will find examples of exposure letters. It is important for you to expose this affair far and wide all on the same day for it to be most effective.

If I understand this correctly, your WH started his affair about 3 years after you got married, and it has been going on for half of your marriage? Why would you want to remain married to this man?

Hi there Fuzzy,
First of all I'm sorry you find yourself here and asking for help, you are in a good safe place here with lots of great folks to walk you through what you need.....
Your husband has probably been in his affair for at least a couple of years......I agree why is he married to you if he is having another relationship......
You can't work on your marriage with the OW in his life, that needs to stop, absolutely no contact has got to happen....
Exposure is key here, when everyone else knows what they are up to it won't be as much fun......tell everyone, both families, freinds, workplaces.....OM's family/husband......
I would hire a PI, get your evidence and confront him and expose him and his affair......
I would tell him that I loved him and would still be willing to work on having a great relationship but that can't be done with 3 people in the marriage......
It's time to either have him leave so he can go on with the OW or the two of you move on together.....
This is ridiculous that this has been going on so long.........

The first time I confronted him, I knew all of this but because I couldn't and didn't want to believe it, I caved in.

I will gather my evidence.

I should read the book but can anyone tell me if I should present him with the evidence first and give him a chance to make the choice - he puts an end to it, looks for another job (he may be able to relocate or maybe she should quit) and then we can work on the relationship we have. If he doesn't do those things, then I expose him. Or does this give him too much time to figure out a lie - like my wife is angry that I don't love her and has made up a bs story about an affair.

Should I also confront the OW? I know where she lives. Or is this pointless?

First of all, never threaten exposure. I made that mistake.

Gather concrete proof of the affair, then armed with proof you go nuclear with the exposure, all at once, and to everyone who matters, including his job.

Neither your husband nor the other woman are going to relocate on their own. This affair is deeply entrenched if it's been going on for 2-3 years. They will each have a million reasons why they can't change their work circumstance and how they can keep it professional on their own. They can't and there is 3 years worth of proof to back this up. The only chance you have is by exposure to the management and have the company force the issue.

So sorry you are here Fuzzy but you have come to the right place.

Do NOT under any circumstances try to negotiate the end of this affair with your WH (wayward husband). Do NOT threaten exposure in advance or you will be giving up your single biggest tool to ending the affair.

Do you want to remain married to this man? If so, then pay very close attention to the advice that is given to you here. Do not do anything without first bouncing it off your group of MB supporters. There is a very narrow path that you must take to end an affair and recover a marriage. You cannot pick and choose parts of this plan that you like or dislike. You have to follow the plan step by step. It will take courage. But you can do it. We are here for you....

First step is to gain concrete evidence of the affair in order to support exposure. Review cell phone records, email accounts, get a keylogger if necessary. Do you know how they are communicating with one another? Phone? Computer?

You need to do some things in a certain order. First, get all the evidence. Can you get his cell phone and forward any incriminating texts or voicemails to your phone or email account? (Make sure you delete that forward history on his phone when you're done.) Put a keylogger on his computer - that's worth every penny. (Go to www.spectorpro.com) Get a voice-activated recorder and hide it in his car to record his 'private' conversations. Make copies of everything and put them in a safe place.

Does your WH have facebook? Get on there and see if he's 'friended' her. See if SHE has FB. See if you can get info on HER friends. Make copies of her friends. You will likely need this for exposure later on. Be sure to see if you can identify family members, like her husband, parents, kids, etc.

Once you have everything, intel-wise, you'll be ready to expose. We'll help you with that.

The chance is good that you'll hear something on the VAR, or see something via the keylogger, that will flip your switch! Don't react! That will backfire on you.

Do not tip your hand about what you're doing! You can't reason with a wayward. In my sitch, the OW's husband knew 'something' was up for months, and just threatened her and my H. It only served to drive them underground and make them more careful. The affair ended the day it was EXPOSED to their employer. Not the day they were threatened with exposure.

BTW, welcome to MB.

I don't want to hear any of this but I so need to hear it. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

I so want to remain married to him. I think he wants to still be married to me but I also think he's torn. She's provided him something I did not.

I am on the gathering evidence part. They communicate only through work as far as I know. This involves his work email, work phone and contact at the office. I installed a keylogger. Found passwords - now all i have to do is log in and hit print. I even installed a GPS in his car:)

He works long hours and I started to suspect he may be going to visit her at her home. No overnights. Although a few months ago, his brother made a comment to me that I know suspect was a veiled attempt to warn me something was going on. So, I think his brother knows.

I think if I hadn't caved 2 years ago when I found the first evidence, this would be over now. But I let it go. I believed him. And I gave him an ultimatum then. I even called the OW. They both denied it. I was so silly. I think I unintentionally gave them permission because I could have exposed it then.

Is there a difference in how you handle a physical affair and emotional one? I haven't seen any evidence that they've been physical but how would I? So, if it's just emotional, does it make a difference?

So, I ordered the book. It's on it's way.

Don't second-guess yourself on what you 'should' have done a few years ago. You're doing the right thing now.

I would think the only difference between an EA and a PA is that you wouldn't need STD testing for an EA. That's about it. The damage is pretty much equal.

And, I'm sorry to tell you this, but if this has been going on this long it's pretty much 100% that it's a PA.

What's done is done. Don't beat yourself up about this now.


EA or PA doesn't matter. The plans are exactly the same. However, I highly doubt that this has been going on for 2 years and that it is not PA. Especially since you have actually caught him at her house. Don't doubt your common sense. Don't let your WH gaslight you. If you don't know what gaslighting is then google it and read up.

Exactly what evidence do you have? What do the phone messages say? You already caught him having hidden communications with OW and already caught him at her house, you sound very close to having what you need to move on to exposure. Good job on getting the passwords, hopefully you should have what you need today.

You mentioned that he is her boss. Is the owner of the company? If not, we have a great form letter to send to the employer. I will find it and post it for you.

I am so sorry to tell you I have no doubt that this a PA. You need to be aware so that you can get yourself tested for STDs. Hang in there!

There is a difference between an EA and a PA: It's like the difference between the top half vs. the bottom half of a hand grenade with the pin already pulled out. Which is to say, if you leave it there & don't act decisively to do something about it, it'll blow up & make a helluva a mess of your life all the same!

I got into an emotional affair. And it became a physical affair in short order. Almost ruined my life. Gave my wife SO much pain that she did not deserve!

Seriously? The only difference between how you should react to an EA vs. a PA is that the latter requires you & your wayward spouse to get tested for STDs. Otherwise, the steps you must take to kill an emotional affair are the same as for a phyiscal affair. The former is every bit as dangerous as the latter for any marriage. Lots of people don't regard this as so, but those people simply do not know what they are talking about.

I posted back in November. Married 7 years, one 4 y.o. child.

Had discovered two things in November: husband was thinking of filing for divorce and that an emotional affair with a coworker I thought was over had never ended. We started marriage counseling and for the last few months, I've been in Plan A more or less. I've met most of my husband's needs - he needs admiration, affection, respect, and sex. He says he wants to work on our marriage, that things are going well, that he loves me. Early on, he told me that he had broken off contact with OW. We've had a good few months overall except...

The whole time, he's been cake eating. I discovered two weeks ago some emails and texts that seemed to indicate he had been to see the OW both before and after work. I confronted him and he lied. The evidence wasn't exactly irrefutable so I trusted him, AGAIN. But on Friday, I caught him at a hotel with the OW. Dirty [censored]. He sent me an email from his boss' computer saying that he had a meeting out of town that would last through dinner. I happened to meet a client at a hotel near my husband's office and what do you know - his car is parked there. I called the front desk and asked to be transferred to OW's room - guess who answered? My lying, backstabbing, husband.

I should have known...when we started MC, he told me their relationship was over. It was because she was angry with him and dumped him. At that point, he seemed really happy to work on our relationship. But she took him back and he took her back. Yeah, for me.

So, yesterday and today, he's slept in the other room. I have thought about recommitting myself to Plan A. (I must not have done a good enough job, right?) It seems like he liked that for a while but then when he realized he couldn't also have OW, he pulled away from me. I'm done with Plan A.

Now, I'm ready to Plan B. I sat next to him on the sofa last night and actually felt like throwing up. I hate what he's done to our marriage, to our life. I hate that I was reduced to snooping and had to read all their gross emails and texts.

He says he doesn't know what he wants. That he sometimes wants our marriage to work but that he also thinks his relationship with the husband-stealing skank is possible.

You see, his mother had an affair with a good friend of his dad's and it all ended happily ever after with his mother losing custody of all 3 kids, his parents fighting forever, and my husband and his brother having affairs. She remarried then died of cancer. So, in his mind, it's possible and likely to find love through an affair. He has his doubts which is why he is still in our house.

The affair has been out in the open, more or less. His wonderful family has known for months and said nothing to me. I just didn't know it. I will finish exposing when my Plan B is ready.

My reality: husband is in love with a coworker and will not ever leave his job. Never. He says he can break free of relationship if he wanted to - he just doesn't want to. He likes it. He gets me and my kid with the nice house when he wants it. Then he gets his the OW to make him feel like a big man - she's ten years younger than he.

I am accepting of the fact that Plan B will not get my husband back. He is already gone to me so this is about me, me, me. I need to get my self-respect and confidence back.

Any advice on a doing Plan B would be very helpful.

Bump

I'm sorry to hear that the affair has continued, fm. My H had an affair that I first discovered after 6 weeks, after which he hid it for two full years. When I rediscovered it then, he took it further underground for another 16 months of PA and a further 6 months after that of EA. I think that your H will do the same, and that Plan B is your only protection against this abuse.

I have bumped your other thread so that people can see your history. This appears to be an affair of more than three years in your six-year marriage.

I will also bump a thread created by MelodyLane about Plan B.

I had hope a few months ago when he admitted the affair to me that it could stop. Two days ago, after finding them in the hotel, I realize that he's just gotten to be a better liar. And boy is she persistent.

I'm working on a Plan B letter. Will be talking to my family tonight. I need to protect myself, my daughter and my family from this. That's all I think of now. I need to change what I'm doing.

Welcome, Fuzzy. I'm sorry to hear about your H's A.

As you have seen, MC's are pretty much worthless in ending A's.

What have you done to expose this affair? Is OW married?

Fuzzy, how will you separate from him? Will he move out?

OW is ten years younger than husband, from another country and single! She works for my husband. Husband's boss knows about the affair but don't think he knows that my H has been using boss' computer to email me false alibis. Husband forwards me an email his boss supposedly sent to him. My dopey husband misspells the name of a key person (classic thing my husband does) so my spidey sense was already in high gear.

I did not expose. Husband has told his boss (who will have his back no matter what) and his brother. Brother and my sister in law know my side too but they won't say anything on my behalf. Only left to expose to my family and his parents. Working on letters for that.

I would expose the affair to your H's boss, a key VP, and to the director of Human Resources. Additionally, I would expose the affair to the OW's family. Does she have a facebook page?

I would use a letter similar to this - fill in the facts - and send it certified mail to his workplace with cc's on each letter.

Developed by Brits Brat, board member and corporate attorney

To Whom It May Concern:

This letter is to bring a matter to your attention that may be a violation of your Company's Code of Conduct and/or other policies, procedures and business ethics.

WS and WS are involved in an extramarital affair that is taking place, primarily, in the workplace. Aside from the potential sexual harassment claims this situation presents, it also involves the inappropriate use of company resources and assets. WS and WS are using company time and company resources to further their affair. If you check the call histories on their office and cell phones along with their workstation computers, you will find the two of them are spending an inordinate amount of what should be productive work time to further their sexual relationship.

If you have any questions, please call me at xxx-xxxx. Otherwise, I will anticipate a response from you once you have investigated these concerns and taken appropriate corrective action.

Regards,

BS
_________________________

Find the OW's facebook page and copy and paste all her contacts into a WORD doc. Target her family members and any married people and send them a private message - space these out 1 minute apart so fb does not shut you down for flooding.

Dear friend of Skankyhola,

It grieves me to write this letter but I believe all of her friends should be aware that Skanky is having an affair with my husband, Joe. We have been married for 5 years and have 3 heartbroken children. They have been having this affair since October according to the evidence.
I would be happy to provide the evidence to anyone who asks.

I would ask that you use your influence with Skanky to persuade her to leave my husband alone. You should also watch your own husbands around her because she is no friend to marriage.

I would appreciate it if someone would notify her parents and ask them to call me at xxx-www-xxxx.
Thank you, BW

another great post about facebook exposures:

I am thinking of some questions now that I'm writing my letter:

What do we/I tell my 4 y.o daughter? She knows OW (OW's mother used to baby sit my daughter - yuck.) She already asked me why Daddy was sleeping in another bed.

On that same line, I'm thinking I should get some separation agreement just to handle my daughter's custody, especially because my husband has shown poor judgment in bringing my daughter around OW before. Can I restrict her from sleeping over OW's house?

Can my IM be one of my family members? My husband and I don't share many friends and I wouldn't trust too many people. Or can it be one of his family members?

Include copies of these emails with your exposure letter.

Tell her that daddy is having an affair with OW and that OW is an enemy of your family. Explain to her why adultery is wrong. Tell her how badly her fathers affair is affecting you and that is why you must separate.


Yes, you should. You should not allow your daughter to be dragged into his affair.

BUT...before you even start on your Plan B letter, you have to get him moved out. It will do you no good to hand him a plan B letter if he is living there. You have to be in a position to go into Plan B FIRST.

Go ask him to move out today. Tell him his affair is too painful and you need him to move out. Tell him you will allow visitions with your DD as long as he doesn't take her around the OW.

The first step is to ask him to move out. If he won't move out, then you will have file for divorce and get him legally removed.


Family members are usually a bad idea because they are hardly neutral. Do you have a brother in law who can remain entirely neutral and act only as a messenger? An IM has to agree to not interfere and to simply and strictly pass on legal messages, nothing more. This person has to be in 100% support of you and not try to play mediator.

But first things first, FM, get your H moved out.

Even without evidence, assume it is a PA. Just assume it.

You can look constantly and diligently for years and not find the actual evidence of a PA, unless the universe leads you by chance to find it.

Assume and don't split hairs between EA/PA.

reading, check out her other thread, she caught them at a hotel together.

merging threads

My husband is sleeping in guest room.

I thought my Plan B letter could ask him to move out? Why not?

My feeling is that he wants to move out - he thinks life without me will be so much better - and so I'm giving him exactly what he wants.

Question about exposure. Been doing as good a job at Plan A but when caught them at a hotel, I just can't do it anymore. That's why I need to Plan B. So, does exposure at this point just look like revenge? It feels like revenge to me. His boss already knows so I'm not sure what I gain by exposing?

I will expose to family for sure b/c not everyone knows. But is the day I start Plan B the day to expose? Or should I have done that on Plan A?

Exposure is never revenge , all you are doing is telling the truth and busting the affair wide open. The other reason for exposure is to protect yourself, WS have a habit of telling people lies about your home life and married relationship exposing enables all to know he is responsible for the affair and questions any stories he may be telling.

The point of the Plan B letter is to tell him you want no more contact with him. You are not in a position to cut off contact if he lives there. So, you will want to ask him to move out TODAY and then give him the plan B letter later. If you hand him a Plan B letter and he say he won't move, then you have just shown your hand to no effect.

Get him out first.


First off, you have no idea what his boss knows. You only have the word of a liar. His boss is unlikely to do anything unless he, along with others, are officially informed of the affair.

As far as your feelings about "revenge" I would point out that feelings are not truth.

What is the truth is that affairs thrive on secrecy and by keeping it a secret all this time, you have ENABLED THIS AFFAIR. If the affair would have been exposed 2 years ago and you would have insisted he leave that job, you would have saved your marriage. But since you protected them at work, it has gone on all this time.


It should have been done some time ago, but since you are already this far along, I would get him moved out today, then go into Plan B and THEN do a nuclear exposure on him and the skank a couple of days later.

If his boss already knows, then it won't hurt to officially notify him. What could be vengeful about that?

Got it! MelodyLane, you are brilliant! I just needed a very good response to the inevitable grief my H will shower on me.

Work is where he is respected. He looks up to and respects his boss so there will be a hell storm for contacting him. Now, I have a perfect response.

So, I get him out. Couple days later go Plan B, then Exposure.

Thank God I'm seeing my therapist 2x this week. I'm gonna need it.

But now that I found my spine, I feel so much better.

One more question (I am so needy today!).

I read in Surviving An Affair that one of the spouses sent the Plan B letter to the OP.

Any opinions on sending Plan B letter to OW with a personal note. I have met OW before - don't know her - but know her via emails if you get the drift. I don't think she knows all the details so this might make a great start to their wonderful life together. Or will it just give them something to be united about against me?

That is one of my fears with exposure at work. They work together and exposure there will give them one more thing to have in common (i.e., what a witch I am for ruining their workplace vibe).

Fuzzy, I'm missing something - what makes you think his boss knows? Sorry, I may have missed a post.

For bliss:

Husband told me. Here's why I believe it:

A few weeks into Plan A, my H and I went away for weekend. Little did I know it was the weekend he had told OW he was leaving. Over the weekend, she must have called after snooping into his work email account. She confronted him at work. My H spoke to his boss because OW is co-worker and she was pissed. Maybe she even told boss. Husband called me that morning to admit affair - I think he thought it was over with him and OW so why not work on relationship with wife?

Husband told me that his boss said to him that if he hooks up with OW after me, he'll lose major respect at work. I believe that. Maybe he doesn't know all gory details but knows there is something going on.

Thanks, Sugar - I did see that, but that doesn't convince me that his boss knows.

Fuzzy, have YOU spoken to his boss? Don't take the word of your WH that his boss knows.

How do you know your WH has been sending you emails from his boss's computer?

Two reasons:

1: H once told me his boss has asked him to send emails from his computer when he's not around.

2: I got an email from H on Friday. It was forwarded from his boss' email. It was a cover story to where he was going to be Friday night - about 45 miles away at working dinner. Only the email was a little funny. And that night I was in area of H's work and picked up/dropped off client in parking lot of hotel I've been to before for lunch. Saw H's car. Called front desk and asked for OW and H answered.

H has been trying to act all open and honest with me by forwarding emails if he has to work late. Now I'm on to him. It's just a way to continue his A. He even made plans with me to go out for dinner date next night. This has opened my eyes. He lies like a rug.

2+2=4

They are already united against you. Yes, you should send her the note attached to the Plan B letter. That puts pressure on that ho.

You should also expose the affair to her family. Does she have a facebook page?


If they call you a "witch" for ruining their vibe, then you have done a great job!! I would AIM for that!

FM, please attach a copy of all those emails - with the headers very visible - to the workplace exposure letters you send to his boss and the director of HR. In your cover letter state that either his boss is covering for the affair or your H has access to the bosses email account.

You have a very powerful weapon in your hands!

FM, I would start by packing his bags NOW and asking him to leave. Tell him his affair is too painful for you to endure and ask him out of respect for you to MOVE OUT. NOW. Tell him you cannot take one more second of his presence.

If he won't, then inform you will be escalating this. And don't say anything more.

Are you sure that filthy ho is single?

H says she's single. Pretty sure she lives alone. Her name has been the same since I've known her.

I don't know anyone she knows except for some of my H's coworkers. All I know is she goes to a local community college.

Are you aware that you can fake an email and make it look like it's coming from someone else? For example: give me five minutes and I can send you an email that looks like it came from your H. Illegal? Hell, yeah it is! Does a wayward care? No.

Thanks. I knew it was possible. I continue to be amazed by the depths people will go to so they can carry on an affair.

Exposure is not "revenge". It's to kill the affair. You should expose to his coworkers. It is very bad to hear that your boss is having an affair with a peer. Think about it: How would you feel if you heard that a boss was screwing a peer?

I know how I would feel. That everything the coworker did was in question now. That they had the job just because they were sleeping with boss. That they could get away with anything.

I would also lose respect for boss. I would also lose confidence in the organization if they knew and didn't handle.

I think this exposure will do the most damage to the affair.

VEry odd that a single person would need go to a hotel with a married man. She may very well be married. I would find out this out ASAP. Does she have a facebook page? Have you looked her up online to see if she is married?


FM, start doing some research! Start out with facebook, then check pipl.com, peoplefinder.com, intelius.com, anywho.com, whitepages.com

I suspect reason for hotel is that I know where OW lives and I have driven past her house before. I think H and skank think I'll show up. Could also be because skank's mom is in the country. She comes up for holidays.

He wasn't planning on staying overnight - just an afternoon quickie. He was gonna come home that night, give me a kiss and say I love you. Give our daughter a kiss and pretend like we're Leave it to Beaver.

I can't find anything on her. She's from another country. I think she only moved to US about 8-9 years ago. No FB, Myspace. I've searched her phone number, known email addresses. Nothing.

Have you been to her house and knocked on the door? I would go by there and see who is there. If her mother is there, you can tell her about the affair.

FM, did you see my posts about packing his crap and asking him to move out?

I predict that this affair has gone on for so long that your husband has grown very foggy and very flagrant. Becasue of that, it will probably take a divorce suit to wake this guy up.

I think he believes you will do nothing to stop him. Asking him to get out will probably shock him.

Yes, MelodyLane, I saw.

I refuse to pack his stuff. I've done everything for him for 8 years. Laundry, cooked, cleaned, bought all his clothes and shoes, paid the bills, did the taxes, handled drs appts, scheduled dates, trips, etc.

He needs to pack his stuff. He needs to find his own place. He is not my problem anymore. If he refuses to leave, I will make him leave. Period.

I want him to feel every moment of putting his stuff that I picked out for him in a duffle bag. I want him to pissed that I'm not doing it for him. I want him to be aggravated that he forgot something.

I'm telling him to leave (just not tonight - he just got back from a family event and I have no energy to get into this with him tonight). Plus he seemed really agitated when he got back. I asked him if he had a nice time and he said "No!" Family probably asked him where I was and didn't like answer. Or, it could be that I left him hanging all day. I didn't speak to him in AM nor did I return his text or call.

I think I'm going to really like Plan B.

Mother doesn't speak a word of english. So even if I saw her, I wouldn't be able to tell her a thing.

Maybe I could draw a diagram?

Or I could just use vulgar hand gestures.

I'm getting punchy. Time for me to sleep.

Kissed my beautiful daughter goodnight, told her how pretty she is, how kind and loving she is, how smart she is and how proud I am of her. I told her that I loved her more than anything else. I had been hanging on to this marriage for her but I do not want her to witness her father's lying, deception and justification for one more minute. He's a good man but this affair has eaten his brain. I owe it to him and her to squash it like the filthy cockroach it is.

I'm confused. How did you communicate with her when she cared for your daughter?


Go ahead and pack his things if you want to go into plan B. Otherwise, you are at the mercy of his time table for getting things packed and getting gone. He'll have ample opportunity to be pissed about all the things you are no longer doing for him when he is out.

Feisty is good!!

FM, translate the message into her language and have this written in a note. Hand her the note.

All hyped up for Plan B but just spoke to family member who popped my hopeful bubble.

She said get a divorce attorney. Protect yourself no matter what. I was going to consult with one anyway but it makes me think there is something she's not telling me.

I'm going to expose tomorrow - although I don't think it matters anymore b/c seems like cat is out of bag and H just wants me to toss his rear into the street b/c he's too weak to make a move.

This is good basic advice! You will want to protect yourself legally. You can still go into Plan B, but be sure and get legal protection.


I think exposure will be an enormous help. It will be much harder for them to carry on their affair when everyone is watching them at work. The cat is not out of the bag AT WORK and that is where they carry on. That is a powerful weapon in your hands.

Fuzzy, you're not packing his stuff for him. You're packing his stuff for YOU.

AGREE. I would pack his crap and have it sitting in the living room when he comes home. Ask him to take it and leave. THEN call the locksmith and have the locks changed.

Got it. Packing his bags sounds better every day.

Just feeling a little discouraged. Did some snooping and saw multiple emails btw WH & OW. Not only their trysts but the one thing that really bothers me is this Time and time again, I tell him - please don't forward photos of my kid to your AP.

Multiple photos of my F*&@ing kid to her. Doesn't send them to me. Just to the woman who will never be her mother. He has ZERO boundaries.

I feel like he'll never get it.

I feel like there is ZERO hope.

I'm pretty much OK with it. My love bank is depleting fast. I called atty just to cover my assets. Will meet ASAP so I can rock the Plan B. I am going to avoid him until then - I am going to say something really nasty.

Fuzzy, understand something else: the OW is in a position to file a sexual harassment lawsuit against her employer if she should ever want to. Not only can she file, but every person employed there can file as well! Anyone who feels that their job has been compromised in any way because of the A is a potential Plaintiff.

Their employer should be aware of this. I would think a letter to the president/CEO/and company attorney should be sent post-haste. Employers do NOT want to hear about sexual harassment lawsuits! And the higher your WH is on the authority food chain the more liable they can be.

I would suggest you send the letter asap, to the people I've listed above. Make sure you cc the letter so all parties know that they're not the only ones getting the letter.

It's not a company - it's public sector. Union jobs.

On another note-putting together a rockin photo album my H can find in his stuff when he's gone. Making me feel a little better.

That sounds like a good plan. I would ask your H to move out NOW and hopefully he will do it. Then while you are getting your legal ducks in a row you can work on your Plan B letter and prepare to go DARK after he has moved out.

In the meantime, do your best to control your tongue. Hopefully he will leave now so you don't lambast him. You have been dealing with this for such a long time that this is the danger of being around him anymore. Better to get him out now before you kill him!

Can anyone translate an exposure letter for me into Spanish? I don't know anyone who can do it for me - I asked around.

Want to pop it by OW's house - I feel pretty sure Mom is here.
I changed the exposure letter to suit my situation. Feel free to comment.


"My husband (spouse name) is involved in an affair with your daughter (name) and has been for over a year. I love my husband very much and want to do whatever I can to heal our marriage and keep our family together. This relationship is coming between us and making it impossible to address issues in our marriage. Please encourage your daughter to do the right thing and end her relationship with my husband immediately."

All your help is much appreciated!

Go here and you can translate it online very easily. Do you not have any Hispanic friends who can help?

http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_txt

"My husband (spouse name) is involved in an affair with your daughter (name) and has been for over a year. I love my husband very much and want to do whatever I can to heal our marriage and keep our family together. This relationship is coming between us and making it impossible to address issues in our marriage. Please encourage your daughter to do the right thing and end her affair with my husband immediately.

If she does not then I will sue on grounds of adultery and have her named in the papers. She will have to come to court to testify about her affair. There is no future in this affair because she will be eternally hated by my husband's family and by our children."

here ya go!!!

" Mi marido, Joe, est� implicado en un asunto con su hija, skankyho, y ha sido por encima un a�o. Amo a mi marido mucho y quiero hacer lo que puedo curar nuestra uni�n y mantener a nuestra familia junto. Esta relaci�n est� viniendo entre nosotros y est� haciendo imposible abordar ediciones en nuestra uni�n. Anime por favor a su hija a hacer la cosa correcta y a terminar su relaci�n con mi marido immediately.

Si ella no lo hace entonces demandar� por razones de adulterio y la tendr� nombrada en los papeles. Ella tendr� que venir a la corte atestiguar sobre su asunto. No hay futuro en este asunto porque mi husband' eternamente la odiar�; familia de s y por nuestro children."

Sorry to be flippant for a minute, but if you put that Spanish text back into babelfish and ask for the English translation, this is what you get:

My husband, Joe, are implied in a subject with his daughter, skankyho, and have been superficially a year. Master husband and I want much to do what I can cure our union and maintain our together family. This relation is coming between us and is doing impossible to approach editions in our union. It please animates to his daughter to make the thing correct and to finish to his relation with my husband immediately. If she does not do it then I will demand for reasons of adultery I will have and it named in the papers. It will have to come to the court to testify on her subject. There is no future in this subject because my husband' she will hate eternally it; family of s and by ours children."

"An affair" becomes "a situation" in Spanish. Clearly, in Spanish they don't say "an affair"; they say something else.

We need a Hispanic person!!

I think I found a way to translate my letter, so thanks.

In other news, did work exposure today. I think I may have to follow up. H came home (no work today) and looked really angry. He hasn't said anything to me but I feel something coming. I'm not going to ask. Gonna keep it cool and just plan A as much as possible - may not be able to make any additions to the bank but I can avoid any additional withdrawals.

Also spoke with Steve Harley today. He suggested I ask husband to consider speaking with him. We'll see...

Fuzzy,
I will have to warn you about your WH speaking to any counselor including Steve when WH is involved in a full blown A.
Steve talked to my WH once individually and 3 times with me. I also talked to Steve individually 4 times.
Steve is very very very good, but in my experience when the A is so entrenched even he can't do a miracle.
I think what actually happened with me was that WH was going thru the motions to show me (and Steve) that nothing would have worked to save our M.
WH was already in the full blown of his second A, but he was so sneaky about it and the OW was the downstairs neighbor, so there were no phone messages, no computer messages (OW is computer illiterate) and WH was basically always around the house.....
So even Steve had a hard time figuring WH out and at some point told me that probably WH was having a fantasy about a woman (a waitress, a colleague etc..) and that was what kept him distant from me...
At the end WH outsmarted Steve who had no more ammunitions to keep WH in counseling with him and me. We had to give up and say...well, there is no hope. Now, grant me that I have quite a WH and I think he is one of the toughest cookies to crack.
All and all I ended up spending about $1,500 in counseling with Steve. I kept going in the hope for a miracle, really�I was so desperate I just wanted my M and my WH back.

Later on I had the distinct impression that WH took all of Steve�s advice (show affection daily, spend at least 15 hours a week together, etc�) and turned it to its opposite. What he did was, he spent less and less time with me. Before counseling with Steve he used to be minimally affectionate, nevertheless he showed some affection and spent time together with me. Afterwards, he wanted to spend the least amount of time possible with me and always in the company of our son or friends. Never alone. Lovemaking stopped and any other form of affection.

This is, of course, not Steve�s fault. Again, Steve was very good at pointing out stuff to WH. However, I do believe that one has to make sure that WH is at least ready to give up OP before starting counseling sessions.

When Steve talks to your WH, in my opinion, Steve should make sure that your WH is ready to give up OW and is ready to implement all the extraordinary precautions to keep NC with OW and to R the M.
If your WH cannot promise Steve this and consequently cannot promise you this�.then you are wasting time and money�.
But I agree, your WH talking to Steve once might shed light on his true intentions�of course, if WH refuses to do so, well then you have the answer right there and then.

I just thought that convening my experience would be helpful.

Blessing

Atena - I agree. Counseling is pointless without H giving up OW. Steve thought he might be able to get my H to see that he could have what he wants out of marriage with me, which would help get him to stop A.

Spoke with H tonight. Found day long text message exchange between H & OW. H caught me checking. Furious - demanded phone from me. Ugly confrontation. He packed and left. I don't know where he's going and I honestly don't care.

We talked for a while before - he said he'll call Steve. Who knows. I can't seem to get him to make any steps forward. He is firm in is indecision.

Confronted H on fact that he has denied having S with OW this whole time. He lied again and told me he never told me he never denied having S. I feel like he will never get the point to honesty. His lies are so entrenched, the denial so strong that recovery will be a long, awful road if it's at all possible. Then there's the whole working with OW thing.

I feel relief that he left. I slept tonight for first time in several days.

But another part of me already misses him. Plan A really got my hopes up. It seemed like we were back on track so easily and I fooled myself into thinking that I could show him I was the greatest wife ever, then he'd leave OW. I keep having to remind myself, his A is about him and not me.

I am getting ready to go dark. He's gonna be mad. He told me he's a prideful person and that he won't come back once he leaves. I said OK. You do what you gotta do.

I have this nagging feeling that this is an exit affair. That he has no intention of working on our M ever. He's too cowardly to ask for the divorce so he's forcing my hand. He wants to be able to say it was mutual or that I divorced him. He won't even admit that the A will have led to divorce.

I don't think he necessarily wants to be with OW. I honestly think he uses her just to get through this and then their relationship will be over. But I don't see him coming back to me after this. I just don't. Maybe I'll change my mind later. Feeling kinda low right now.

Fuzzy,
Don't feel bad, I think him leaving and feeling what life will be without you and the life he has known is the best way for him to really reflect on his decisions.
Go dark let him see you are willing to move on that you won't put up with his affair.
Let the affair play out let's see how it falls apart when real life hits him, it's a different story when all the logistics of life come into play, your job is to sit back and watch him learn his lessons.
look good, get on with life, paint the walls, buy a new dress, cut your hair whatever changes you have to make...............
I'm going to guess he will have a lot of regret in no time.

FM, it is an "exit affair." Most ARE. It makes no difference. Your H is leaving the marriage, though, because of his affair. That is evidenced by the fact that he didn't leave before.

Everything you wrote here is textbook. They don't want to work on the marriage [yes we already knew this!] and yes he does not want to blame the affair for the divorce. I have never known an adulterer that wanted to blame the affair for the divorce. They all want to act as if they would have done it anyway EVEN THOUGH THEY DID NOT DO IT UNTIL THE AFFAIR AROSE.

So, my suggestion to you is to stop listening to fogbabble. A wayward is a falling down drunk so listening to them is the same as listening to a falling down drunk. It is a waste of time. A falling down drunk doesn't know what he wants because he is out of his mind.

But remove the booze, and everything changes. And this is what your main focus should be: removing the source of the addiction, the OW!

Ok, that is funny.

Your H is not undecided at all. He has decided. He decided on having both of you a long time ago. And he won't find out that the OW can't possibly meet all of his needs until you go into Plan B. That is your next step, FM. Are you ready for Plan B? To take back control of your life and feel better than you have in months?

Have you exposed to the OW's mother? Where are you in that?

Fuzzy,
just keep in mind that the end of the A is not the point of plan B.
Truth is, the A might never fall apart. Some MBers's WS are still with AP after many years.
My own WH is still with OW in spite of all the difficulties that, at the beginning of my plan B, appeared to me fatal to his A (loss of respect on the workplace, loss of income, loss of respect from beloved son, living in a one bedroom place, no car, no friends, OW's bratty kids and needyness etc..).
These struggles ended up to be the glue of the A as OW now is the sole and unique soul mate for him. Some WS love drama and difficulties and needy people who keep them away from their own mess. By caring for needy OW, WH is actually avoiding the huge amount of problems he has in his practical and emotional life.....
Care for yourself and forget about your WH.
Blessing
_________________________

Glad you like. That is how crazy this is. He refuses to make a decision and I feel like the more I say make one, he stalls. So, forget about it. I'm not going to talk any more.


Exposed work & mother. Email to family even though they already know.

No fallout yet.

Heading to Plan B.

I am well aware the A may never end or at least not before I reach my breaking point. I have a sliver of hope that he's getting a wake up call and a dose of reality. But maybe he'll like not hearing from me for a while. Who knows.

He's set it up in his mind that he is justified in his behavior, that he did everything he could to improve our relationship (really improve me, b/c I was the problem) and when I didn't do what he wanted - he had no choice but to cheat b/c he was lonely. More or less his words.

Yes, more or less my own WH words as well.
Your WH works with OW and till that is the case the A will always be in his mind because of continued contact with OW. And if they do not plan to go and live together, the "engagement" (yes they act life boy friend and girlfriend in their teens) can go on for quite a while.
Keep your chin high and your dignity. Good on the exposure!!!!
Tell everyone you care about or you think might influence the A and end it...
But keep in mind you are the most important thing!
blessing

I'm hispanic and speak Spanish fluently, but my writing sucks. I basically write Spanish at a second grade level in terms of spelling, but here goes:

"Senora, su hija tiene una relacion sexual con my marido. Le pido a usted que me allude a terminar esta relacion pecadora y precionne a su hija que no vea a mi marido mas.

Tengo una hija de cinco anos y yo quiero salvar mi matrimonio. El contacto con su hija tiene que terminar immediatamenta y le pido su alluda. Perdone que yo le traigo estas malas noticias, pero no se que mas puedo hacer para terminar esta relacion.

Esto es up pecado grande y le pido que me allude, por favor.

Yo no hablo espanol y tuve que encontrar alluda de un amigo para traducir mi mensaje para usted.

Le puedo dar prueba de la relacion si usted quiere."

I'm sure it's full of spelling errors, but it will get the message across.

Hope it helps.

Just so you know, I appealed to her Catholicism (I'm making an assumption, since 90% of hispanics are Catholic) by stating that you seek her help to end this sinful relationship with your husband and need her help to do so.

I said it again, towards the end, since adultery is considered a mortal sin by the church, which basically means that you get an express ticket to hell for committing it regardless of how much you claim you believe in Jesus if you continue to commit the sin.

Not to get into a religious debate here, but saying you belive while committing a grave sin isn't enough to save your skin, by Catholic doctrine.

Again, please, I want to stay on point and not start a religious debate. That is Catholic doctrine and this woman's mother is likely Catholic, so that's why I mention it.

It would also be very effective. I picture my mother getting a letter like this and the butt chewing we would get would be monumental, regardless of our age. If my mom got a letter like this, I'm sure there would be some slaps involved as well while she yelled at me.

Doubly so for a daughter, who is expected to behave more so than a man. Again, not wanting to debate. That's just how things are in the mores of the group.

Nice detail added HTLD. I am catholic, as is my WH AND OW. Sickening to say the least.... you would think she would be trying to NOT commit a grave sin if her family is so "dedicated to the catholic way of life."

Thanks for that. I do can read a little spanish - about your grade level and I understood most of it. I was able to fix the misspellings - very helpful!

I may have to do a 2nd letter to mother so this will be helpful. I'm not even sure she is at OW's house but even if not, OW is getting my letters.

Thanks for all your help. I don't know how I'd be going through all of this without this forum.

Be strong. Keep coming for advice. We're here 24/7 (more or less).

Fuzzy, if it helps, you can google 'spanish to english translation' and get dialogue boxes to type in that will automatically convert the language.

Tough night. H took DD4 to MIL's where he's staying for the night. She'll be happy to see Grandma and Grandpa but I miss my bedtime routine with her after just one night. It hit me that I'll miss half of her goodnights forever.

We have a nice little routine - I tuck her in, we say the Lord's prayer, and I sing to her. She loves Blackbird and Somewhere Over the Rainbow. Then I kiss her, hug her and tell her that I love her and that she's my best girl.

This sucks. I never want to keep my daughter from my H but I feel like this is just one more consequence that isn't my fault that me and his daughter have to face. It makes me so angry.

Meeting atty tomorrow to make sure I'm protecting DD4 from exposure to the OW. That's priority #1.

In good news, I've lost 15 lbs since October. See - affairs aren't all bad!

Fuzzy, they totally lose their minds and you can tell that is the case when you see their behaviour with the kids.
OK, they cheated on us and that is really bad, but what do the kids have to do with that? WHy avoid them too?
It is like their brain is totally taken by the A and OW. Nothing else counts.
This is seen time and time again and this detachment from the kids happens with both WH and WW....
You would think a woman would have it in her to stay closer to her kids....but once they become wayward everything changes.....
Again your WH is just textbook stuff. My WH saw my son for 3 hours during xmas after not seeing him for 6 months....so in 15 days my son was visiting from the states...WH only had 3 hours to spare to see him. ANd you know what he talked about with my son? How terrible OW's XH is!!!
Wow
Blessing
blesssing

Met with attorney today. He suggests we go for legal separation - I can convert it to a D if needed. My DD4 would be protected from H bringing OW around her now. Nothing I can do if it turns into an affairage.

In Plan B now but haven't made any official arrangements for handling custody. Separation would spell it all out and make it clear. H seems to think he'll get 50/50 custody but atty said no way. At least not now while he's so unstable & I represent stability.

H is staying with ILs now. Obviously sees OW at work and probably after. Said he would call Steve Hartley. Not sure that has happened yet.

Does Legal Sep just rachet it up a notch? I don't want D but if A doesn't end, that's where I'll be. Want to protect me and DD4 most of all so I think this is how I will proceed - maybe just not right away. Or am I giving H time to plan/conspire? I still think he's firmly indecisive.

I just exposed so part of me thinks doing this now will cause H to just explode - or maybe that's a good thing? Worry that all this will cause him to run to her willing arms and he'll make a choice I don't want. Thoughts?

Read up on some other threads to see what happens after exposure.

You'll get lots of anger thrown your way, but nothing works better for killing affairs.

Did you expose to OW's mom?

Here's my update after exposure:

H's family - silent. No one has contacted me. No one wants to know anything. Afraid I'll subpoena them all!
H's work - no contact. Really disappointed.
OW's Mom - left letter but not sure she received anything.

Saw H this morning. He came to pick up DD and made some snarky comments. Wasn't going to talk to him but I just can't resist a confrontation. (my bad) He was mad that I told DD that he had left house and why - that he though he might love OW and might want to live with her.

Then as he was leaving, he said to me that he loved me, missed me and thought I looked pretty (first time in long time he's said that). But he said some of things I'm doing are making it impossible for him to ever come home.

I said like what? He didn't want to talk but I pushed (I need to learn to back down, seriously). I asked about email to his boss - he said that it made me look vindictive that even his boss thought so. That he could lose his job. He said "how can I do that to our DD?" Then he said that this is one reason (my so-called vindictiveness I guess) that made him stray.

I quickly retorted that it wasn't I who was carrying on an affair during work hours, using work phone & computer. I merely told people about it. I told him I was sorry he was angry but that I would do it again if it ended his affair. I repeated that I love him, want him home, that I want to work on our marriage but I can't do so while he is with OW.

Unfortunately, my DD witnessed this exchange. I am not proud - she's never seen us argue as we don't usually argue.

I tried not to let it all get to me. I know I did the right thing but I'm just not sure he ever will.

What my H said about his boss bugs me, though. He's known about the relationship and has sat by. I feel like I should talk to him b/c I'm not getting the whole picture but then I think that it doesn't matter - he has his head up his rear end if he's allowed this to continue.

Does this all sound typical?

Did you expose to Human Resources and another key VP?

Did you expose to more than one person? And did you 'cc' those people on your letter so the boss knows that other key people know?

Immediate supervisors can have a certain loyalty to their employees. (Crazy, I know, since an A is something that puts their employer at a significant liability.) Some bosses will ignore or minimize an A because they don't see it causing a problem in the workplace and because they like the adulterers. They consider them 'friends.'

It doesn't add up: the boss has a don't care attitude, but WH could lose his job? Boss must care, if the job is in jeopardy.

H is pretty high up. Only one person above. H & boss are very close. Was hoping boss would be one to get him to reconsider. But seems like they're all on same team now - Boss, H & OW. Oh joy.

I have no doubt he lied about the boss' reaction, but it also is not uncommon for a direct supervisor to throw away such a complaint. I HAVE SEEN THIS HAPPEN. This is why it is so critical to expose to 3 people and use cc's. This way, no one gives into the temptation to toss the letter.

FM, I would make plans to go into Plan B as soon as possible. Have you started working on your letter yet?

CWMI - Good point. Without giving away too much, H works in public sector job. Boss doesn't care but must have to involve others to CYA in case I go to them. I had no intention - it would go really public.

Letter is done - H is talking to Steve H on Monday and plan on giving it to him after I confer w/Steve.

Good job! FM, do you have an intermediary and do you have a plan to keep him out completely? What about child exchanges? What about changing the locks?

Yes. Have IM. Plan to keep him out for good. Just not ready to implement. Waiting to talk to Dr H to see what happened. Told H I would not proceed with anything until he spoke to Dr so I'm keeping promise.

Already met with atty so he knows what's going on. He's just awaiting my call to either do separation or full D. Seems to be on board with doing things slowly - and I liked his approach to D. Not mediation but avoiding trial.

I feel much more confident now - that if H is still possessed by demons, I can move on. Maybe I'll like him again one day, too.

Sounds like a plan!

Best of luck to you. Do you think OW's mom read the letter?

How did you deliver it?

I hope things work out for you. I caution you on the ideas about D. They are never really friendly or nice. Things get out of control once someone asks for something the other one really wants and then it just deteriorates from there.

First, I want to say thank you to everyone who has posted to my thread. Your comments have helped tremendously.

Here's an update:

My H moved out over a week ago to live with family. Since then, he and I have been in contact with Dr. H, who suggested that my H call to get an introduction to the MB way. H and Dr. H have spoken 3 times and H seems to be on board. I'm not optimistic yet as he hasn't gone through withdrawal, implemented NC, etc but for me, it's a small step in the right direction. I am 100% prepared to move forward with a full Plan B or even Plan D if needed.

While I have not implemented full Plan B per Dr H's instructions - I have maintained radio silence (only responding to texts about our DD4) but have seen him 2x since his moving out. Once was awful, the other time was better. H keeps bringing up exposure, our relationship etc, and I just nod my head or say "I understand how you'd feel that way." I think he has purposely tried to start fights (about seeing DD4) with me via text message and I am polite but firm.

Here's what I can say with 100% certainty. The best thing I did for myself is ask my H to leave. His A was literally driving me insane. With him gone, I have been able to deal with him in a calm, cool manner. I sleep well, am eating better, and am not obsessing. I am seeing my own therapist and staying busy.

Another thing I did was to leave the process in my H's hands. I'm not talking to him about the A, or his talks with Dr H, or where we stand in the process. He even tried to quote MB material, using ti against me of course!

When he texts me (even if he is mad) I am polite and don't engage. It helps me to picture him as a drunk - I can't reason with him, coerce him or threaten. I can't discuss anything important with him now because he is intoxicated.

Someone had the post about the lighthouse and I have that hanging on my wall. "...you stand at that point of being the lighthouse home...even though they create the waves that block their vision from seeing that..."

I am wary of FR so I have my non-negotiables. We'll see how he does with the next steps...

FM, I would do this right. This is your best chance of recovery and your best chance at personal recovery. Plan B will make an amazing difference in your emotional stability.

MelodyLane:

I agree - but am following Harley's advice right now. He wants me in a modified Plan A right now while H and Harley spend some time talking. H needs to see a way back home and a vision of our life together which he hasn't had up until now, even though I was in Plan A from Oct - Jan, I guess it didn't all click.

I feel much better with him out of the house - that and the 2 hours of therapy, St John's Wart, yoga, elliptical trainer and a glass of wine now and then!

I gotcha! I had the opposite impression from your post but I see what you mean now. That is great that you have a plan!

Update and Questions for those who've come before me:

Per Dr. H, I'm in a modified Plan A. H (who is living with his parents right now) and I speak infrequently but when we do, it's supposed to be light (no LBs, reiterate my commitment to making marriage work, meet ENs I can). H says his "relationship" with OW is over but he still works with her.

H and I speak with Dr H each week and get homework.

Last week, H came over and asked me what I needed from him to make our marriage work (after apologizing several times for hurting me, etc) and I told him "I don't feel safe with you working with OW." H seemed in shock, although Dr. H had already prepped him - H didn't think I'd ask this of him. I also gave him SAA (not sure he's read it.)

I think I explained how I would feel - no demands or ultimatums - pretty well. We got to talking and one thing led to another...we spoke after and he said that he'd leave his job as I (our marriage and family) was more important than it.

Seemed to be progress but that was over the weekend. He texted me after he left - very loving, caring texts. Also, he texted me that he wanted us to get a hotel room for his birthday which was quite frankly creepy after I had only discovered him in a hotel a few weeks ago.

A few days go by, I talk to Dr H who had already spoken with H and confirmed H is really struggling with idea that he has to leave his job. Issue is not leaving his job - it's that it's for me and not his choice. He feels that he'd resent me (as he thinks he will be unhappy elsewhere). But Dr. H told me that SF over the weekend turned my H right side up and that it was a good thing it happened.

We went out to dinner yesterday and had a great time - we were both flirty, enjoying ourselves etc. Lots of eye contact, touching, good conversation. I wore the sexiest dress I own. Best dinner in years. 3 hours and no lull in conversation.

H definitely has contact with OW every day at work...maybe more than that so I know he's foggy. Today he texts me that he wore some new cologne to work but was sad no one noticed. I wrote back "I'm OK that no one noticed." Evidence to me that he doesn't get my issue with him working with OW. And he's hot and cold, which I know is normal.

NC can't happen yet b/c of work - best case scenario is that he finds a job in a few months. SF, Admiration and Attractive Spouse are his biggest needs I think. I feel a little weird about SF (but am attracted to him) - just wonder if it's the right thing - no SF.

So my question to all of you - can SF help in a recovery? I know we're not in recovery yet because of contact with OW. But could it help us get to recovery if SF is such a big need? It seems like a fine line between this and cake eating.

Scratch that last post...

Just found nude photos of OW in H's email account from a few days ago. The day before I took him to dinner, a few days after we were intimate. And these photos were full on - no doubt what they were.

I am so angry right now. Again, I believed his sincerity. It's different this time. Really? He's working with Steve, seems to be doing all the right things. I guess he's a great liar.

So I forwarded email of photos to OW with a message that I will send these pictures to everyone at work if she continues to contact my H. Copied my H. I will call Steve Harley this week to talk to him but I think H and OW had a brief respite and now it's on again. I'm not going to let him eat his cake. No way.

No lovebusting (though it is so, so, so difficult).

He wants you both and that is a good thing. He doesn't want just naked photo lady. Yes, he is hiding his affair still and trying to keep you both on the farm.

Tell him you will not share him. Do it matter of factly, firmly but not with angry outbursts or disrespect (cause that just gets used against you as more justification of the affair).

Hold on tight and talk to Steve and keep posting here to vent.

Yes, I suppose he wants us both and to keep his job. I'm thinking I may re-expose with the naked photos. Should I send them along with my exposure letters? They are pretty graphic (rear end shot of her privates). Classy girl, eh?

I will talk to Steve on Monday but wanted to know what you all thought.

I wouldn't send the photos. Just have copies in a safe place in case they are important later.
Yes, it sucks to see them but we all are naked under our clothes. We all have rear ends, whether we immortalize them forever with the goods showing in photos or not.
I am just trying to give you perspective here.

Count it as useful info. If you ever recover your marriage......you know that a rear end goods view might be alluring to your H. Just file it away literally and figuratively...yk.

Perspective.

The photo was meant to be provacotive. In a different way to WH than to you or anyone else seeing it. Don't give it more power than it deserves.

Thanks. Another vomit inducing memory. Lucky me.

FM,

I have to differ. In order for the exposure to have max effect, sometimes the truth has to be out there.

Nothing to make the ow run like showing the real skankiness of the affair imho. I'd use the pictures. And save them and keep them in a safety deposit box in case they're ever needed legally.

Girl you're going into plan B right now. He won't end the affair? How about showing what really goes on in an affair? it ain't hand holding and roses. It's dirty, nasty, evil stuff.

There's an old saying. Don't say or do something you don't want to see on the front page of the newspaper. Both of them should have thought about that before they had their photo session.

Furthemore, when you do a massive exposure, there are also naysayers and those that think the bs is exaggerating, or might be making things up. Those photos of skankola's nasty bits should definitely clear the air that you are telling 100 percent the truth.

I see those photos as ultimate affair killers!

Do you want to be nice or do you want to end this affair?

If it were me, I'd expose and send them out and then go dark.

And fwiw, never negotiate with a terrorist (or an other woman or other man).

Don't threaten. Send them. You tipped your hat to her that you "might". She will keep on doing what she is doing, and your wh is an accomplished liar.

They need a harsh dose of reality to stop this insanity now!

It's good your wh feels that you're attractive and still desires you, and that is why when you go dark on him it will work. But you have to cause trouble in affairland. Nothing like graphic and nasty photos of the other woman to send her running.

What could she do? sue you for spreading the truth after she spred her legs?

You have the tool to end it right now, end that affair. End it today.

Peachy,

That's what I thought but I am treading very lightly here.

H told me (for what it's worth) that his boss told them both to just not use work time and computers/equipment for their relationship. Lame response but whatever. Not sure he knows how sexual their relationship is but this would be the ultimate proof. Personally, I'd love to email the whole office with this photo...but that might be a little overboard. Fun to think about though.

The photos were sent from her private email during a holiday so I'm not sure the boss will care...but maybe he'll see just how out of control and distracting their relationship is. I think she took the photos by herself and emailed them to H. He said he never responded to email.

If I keep hounding their boss, and show that aggression is coming from her end (no pun intended) maybe I can get her out of H's workplace once and for all.

FM, as much as I would love for you to send her stinky butt pictures to work, I think that would blow up in your face and achieve absolutely nothing.

I am really concerned that you are not in Plan B yet. Do you know that Dr Harley recommends 3 to 4 weeks for women? The reason is because the affair is so traumatic for women that they have nervous breakdowns and then the marriage is really over. If you go into Plan B now, though, you will protect the remaining love you have for your H and it can be rekindled when his affair eventually dies.

The plan you seem to be in, which Harley calls "PLan C" for compromise is the most likely to lead to divorce.

Refresh my memory, have you exposed skanky hola to her family and facebook friends? Those pictures could be put to good use if sent to her family and friends.

I agree w/you Melody.

Plan A going on too long is very painful. When I did the plan A/B during that situation, I went on far too long, and wish somebody back then had told me to end it at maybe a month b/c it did take a toll on my health and well-being.

I do think those pics are needed to bust this up once and for all. Maybe she could create a new FB page, and if she has the goods on the nasty bits' friends and family, have their contact info, she could do that today..blow it all up.

I just see, that these photos show an affair for what it is. And if her wh is lying like mad, deeply entrenched and confused, that he needs to SEE and try to explain how his affair is a good and decent and moral thing, if those pics get out. Kinda hard to defend an affair after its' true ugliness is revealed. It's kind of hard to lie your way around those photos you know.

I think she should call the ow from now on "nasty bits". That is an appropriate nickname for her!

I know she is in a modified plan A cause Steve told her to be.
Maybe she could email the counseling center and ask what to do with the photos and whether to go to plan B and how to do it if recommended right now.

Steve thought he could get my H to see the light. He calls it modified Plan A. Talk to my H and I - give me suggestions on how to deal with H who is stubborn as a mule and he talks to H directly. Been on the modified plan A for about 2 weeks.

So regarding the exposure to her friends and family - she isn't on facebook or myspace or anything else. I just did email finder and found some local relatives - no emails, just physical addresses. I previously had only exposed to her mother as she has been staying with her - had to translate it into spanish. No way of me knowing whether she got it or not.

Exposed to H's family and their boss - mutual boss who I know. His response was to ignore me. Went no further than boss before - wouldn't expose to anyone but him (although I like thinking about it.)

I think I need to go into full dark Plan B now, too, even without Steve's advice. But was wondering about the exposure mostly - to use photos, to not. To expose to boss again or not.

If you have her family details mention in the exposure that you have explicit photo's of her should they require evidence. Send a copy of the photo's to her mother , she will not need to understand English to see what her daughter has done.

Is the boss their immediate boss, and is there a ceo or a human resources department you can report them too? If the company is corporate owned, there is! Re expose!

And if it were me, who cares of the ow mom speaks another language. I'd find or hire somebody who spoke spanish and have them go to the house and tell the woman in her native tongue what her daughter is doing!

i'd also have them translate it into spanish for exposure in form of letter or facebook entry. Make it CLEAR what the ow is doing. Expose like mad!

I think the photos are affair killers.

I was born in a spanish speaking country and know that many of them are very committed to their marriages and families and would strongly and harshly come down on an ow who was destroying a marriage and family. I could only imagine what they'd do if they saw photos of it! Turn up the heat.

And you can make sure she received the letter (mother or relatives) by simply sending the letters CERTIFIED mail. Send one letter regular mail, and another certified to make sure the all get the news about their skank relative. Kill the affair now! Send them next day too!

You know when to go to Plan B. Your wh just tried to throw you off and send the affair underground further now.

I agree with you 100%. Do you have a letter ready? I would follow the suggestion in SAA to send a copy to the OW with a note on it.

And also consider giving copies of the photos to the OW's mother.

Plan B Letter ready - had written it back in January. Working on exposure letters round 2.

good girl! Do you have an intermediary? One that can be completely neutral?

Unfortunately no. All I have is my mom and she's flaky at best. No mutual friends. No other family really. I know it's not the best but my plan is to block his email, and only let him text me. No phone calls. Already unmarried him on facebook. We have to communicate for daughter but already have a custody schedule in place so contact will be minimal. Only thing is I want my daughter to call me when she's with WH. I'm thinking of getting her a cellphone (age 4!) so she can call me. I won't speak to him at all. I know the goal is to block all contact but for the first week, I was great at ignoring him. It's when he started apologizing that I let him in. He seemed to really be doing and saying the right things - Steve even thought he was making a change.

I need to practice something like this...I'd be happy to talk to you about our marriage when you agree to full no contact with POSOW, get another job by summer, agree to MB 100% and agree to full transparency and honesty. Until then, we have nothing to discuss."

FM, that would be a disaster if he were allowed to contact you via text and is NOT Plan B!

If you have no one else, then use your mother and get her agreement to ONLY pass on pertinent information in her own words that relates to finances and visitation. Would she do that?


No, you should not communicate AT ALL. Otherwise it completely defeats the purpose of Plan B. In order to have any effect at all, Plan B has to be completely dark.

Dr Harley addresses this aspect over and over again and mentioned it in a post just yesterday:

\

Instead of making it a condition that he "agree" to those things, I would make it a condition that he DO those things. The conditions should be:

1. end all contact with the OW

2. commit to recovery of your marriage

Thanks again for the advice.

I went ahead and exposed again to boss. I have mixed feelings about it but did attach the very graphic photos of her "nasty bits." I just felt I needed to strike while the iron is hot.

I also put exposure letters in mail to OW's family. No photos except for Mom.

Does it make sense to reexpose to H's family. No photos but maybe tell the type of evidence I have? Didn't hea a peep from them last time but maybe it's worth a shot.

Plan B letters going out on Monday to H and OW, reiterating that I'm in it for the long haul.

I am officially plan B. And I am feelin' fine.

Haven't seen or spoken to H since Saturday. Mailed Plan B letter.

Exposure this weekend resulted in me getting a call from the police - not sure if they're going to warn me or what. Already spoke to atty. just in case.

My intermediary is set up. I blocked my email, cell, etc. Tomorrow I'll pack up his stuff and leave it outside for him to pick up when he drops off DD this weekend.

Every day I do not speak to him, I feel stronger. With every person I tell, I feel stronger. I sleep better. Maybe this is a honeymoon phase and I'll miss him soon. Or maybe I won't...

I keep thinking about all the times he made me feel badly about myself, criticized me, bullied me and I feel like it all started around the time of the OW. I know it was all to justify his behavior but it doesn't hurt any less knowing that's what he did.

Be strong.

Whatever comes.....just breathe and do not react to anything. Calmly respond....but stay dark to your WH. (It IS sanity for you for sure)

In Plan B since last Saturday.

Have been putting off filing legal separation but two things have come up: H is taking money out of bank account, at this rate about $1,000/month in cash. And he is going back on his agreement about custody of DD4.

Custody of DD4 is 2 overnights/week (either Thursday & Friday or Saturday & Sunday) plus one night out. H is being difficult about drop off and pick up times (late on purpose), although we had already agreed. Overheard him tell my IM (my mom) that he's going to give me a new schedule and that's what we're going to use. H seemed to accept custody a few weeks ago but that was before I re-exposed with naked pictures.

Feel like I have no choice but to go legal separation at this point to protect my rights. H has consistently bullied me into things and I will stand up to him. I'm in Plan B so will need atty to handle. As far as I know, he hasn't seen atty yet. Not sure what he's waiting for.

I think he's using this issue to get back at me for exposure at work and to family. Any advice?

A legal separation is always the best path when you are in Plan B. This protects you legally.


And how did you "hear" your H if you are in plan B?? I would not be listening to any voicemails, nothing.

H arrived 45 minutes late, past DD4 bed time so I was in house (hadn't planned on it) and H was loud. Couldn't help but overhear.

Definitely if he is trying to bully and not following your agreement....legal sep. sounds the best way to go.
It will give you further protection from the affair.

Thanks MelodyLane & Reading.

I feel its my only option but am concerned about my H's reaction - escalation. But I can't think about it now. I have to protect my DD and myself.

It's funny - when he was trying to reconcile, he agreed to custody. Now, he's mad (2nd exposure, my plan B) and wants to change it. It's all about him...

In Plan B.....you must not worry about the reaction/escalation.
You must do what is RIGHT for YOU. Without regard to how big of a tantrum potentially will go on over on the other side of the fence. YK?
In Plan B.....it is now all about YOU. You moving forward into the future and protecting your position financially and physically.

I know it is tough to overcome the sense of fear. Fear of this. Fear of that. Fear of so many things we dread happening. Face the fear and try to feel for what is right with your soul.

If your WH is cashing out your money and having issues with child visitation...deal with it now...

Really tough day for me.

My wedding anniv.
Saw attorney and formalized legal separation.
I discovered I might be pregnant from one of our short lived reconciliations.

I went for a drive and asked parents to put down DD. Got home and H called my mother (also my IM) screaming at her. I usually have DD call H on the nights he does not have her (my idea by the way) and forgot with everything that's going on. IM/Mom said I wasn't home but I had just walked in. H said he was coming to get DD b/c I wasn't around. IM/Mom said no, she just came home.

H asked to speak to me and laid into me. Meanwhile, he's at OW's house. Telling me I'm lying. He's filing for D next week. Know OW is listening. H tells me he doesn't want to be married to me anymore and doesn't want me. He says I'm lying to everyone. I'm playing the victim.

I shouldn't have even engaged him but I feel so overwhelmed.

I feel like giving up today. I feel like just filing for D and moving on with my life. I want to fight for my DD and for what I deserve out of marriage but I really dislike my H right now. And I don't want to hate him. Every ounce of love I have for him is quickly fading and all I see is this pathetic loser who can't tell me the truth about one thing.

He's my DD's father and I have to live with that. I hate confrontations with him as they make feel so drained. So I get tempted to just roll over and let him walk all over me. But...it's just a momentary thing and then I snap out of it.

Not really any questions here. Just going through a tough time and needed to vent. Thanks for listening.

Forgot to mention some funny things my H said to me.

"I was 1/4 of inch from breaking it off with OW until you demanded I leave my job." He called me from OW's house tonight after taking her to dinner on my AMEX card.

"Our divorce is a shared decision (since you won't accept me working side by side with OW and I won't quit my job.)" To that I responded that I don't and never did want a divorce.

"I love you and miss you. But my attorney said you were abusive (I guess b/c I insisted he quit his job.)"

"All the things you're doing right now (exposure) make it impossible that I could ever get back together with you. People will think I'm insane."

My response to that one was, "so people think it would be totally sane and acceptable if you dumped your wife and kid for a POSOW who takes pictures of her crotch? But staying in your marriage and resolving our issues would appear irrational?"

I told him a few weeks ago that he was bullying me. Never had said that before to him. So of course he accuses me of bullying him tonight.

H told me we had a "loveless marriage." News to me.

Funny, foggy wayward.

Well one good thing is going on. There is anger and trouble in crappy affairland b/c of the pictures. And I am sure they do not paint her in good light!

Now about you and the kids, your wh is vindictive and cruel and you cannot allow him to finance the affair with your joint monies. Good for you filing for the legal separation. Make copies of ALL MONIES spent on skankyho "nasty bits" and make sure attny has that information. I would ask to be refunded the exact amount of the $ he has spent on her, that you would never agree to your joint $ being used for that.

Be kind to yourself right now. Your wh is in full taker mode, is angry that the world has viewed what he has done, and is being totally irrational about the job thing. Of course, he has to leave the job. I certainly believe that possibly the ow might get fired (crossing fingers) since the pictures got out. And do not worry about anything. The ow took photos of herself. Like the old saying, don't do anything that you would be ashamed to show either your grandma or priest...and we know what ol' "nastybits" did didn't we?

Your ws is just fuming and being arrogant. What will happen next, courtesy of plan B, will be him and the ow beginning to argue alot. If you pull yourself out of their crazy drama, they begin usually to turn on themselves. Don't listen to his rantings and lies. Now is the time for peace, some financial and personal sanity (let the lawyer deal with the wh and the $ problems he's creating), and step back from their crazymaking.

Plan B sometimes IS a Godsend. It gives you some space from the stress of daily dealing with a wayward. Let your lawyer know you do not want to have visitation modified, and that the issue of ws taking out money and paying for ow with joint monies has to stop. Let him handle that.

And also relax. know that if your ws is fuming mad after this exposure that IT WORKED REALLY WELL!

I seriously think the ow may get fired..my hopes again.

Meanwhile, pull back, try to relax. Disengage courtesy of plan B, and the affairees will begin to turn on each other in the absence of you fueling the fire of their silly teenage dramas.

Hugs to you. Wish you well. We're here

Peachy,

My greatest revenge on them is that they get exactly what they want - each other.

H should be ecstatic - he's got his girl, his job, his freedom. What the heck is he so mad about?

I continue to avoid him. Atty will serve him next week. We'll see what happens.

Good for the legal separation in your situation.
Congrats if you are pregnant.....even if it is a tough time.......if you are not....phew!

He is hissing, spitting wild cause it IS having effect. Disregard anything he says....since it is all conflicting opposites from moment to moment.

Tell mom/IM not to hand phones to you again.

We are here for you to work through this muck and mire to wherever you wind up. You will wind up on a good place...whoever winds up there with you.

H was served yesterday with papers for legal separation. No news on that front.

In the meanwhile, I heard back from my MIL (I sent two emails to MIL & FIL during exposure.) Basically, MIL says they're staying out of H's "affairs of the heart" - no pun intended on her part, I guess. But she was going to butt in enough to comment on me and my faults.

Most of the email focused on why I was a bad daughter-in-law (I didn't invite them over to dinner enough, etc.) and how they bent over backwards to welcome me into their family (by not giving me a wedding gift, not inviting my family to their cottage when other family members went, by banning me from holidays, lying to my face, etc). I must have missed how welcoming they were to me.

Why do some people have to make it all about themselves? I reached out to them in a moment of crisis and I get criticism? What is wrong with some people? Please tell me the whole family has been abducted by aliens...

Another update...

Heard from atty that server was told by my H (when presented with separation papers) - "What are these? I want divorce papers." Although no divorce has been filed yet by him. His atty called mine and H wants a "collaborative" divorce.

Atty & I don't think it'll work with H. Will save money but I instructed atty I want to delay as much as possible. I don't want a divorce.

No contact from H.

A little confused, though. Therapist and friends keep telling me that avoiding H is unhealthy for my DD4. That at some point I'll have to be able to interact with him face to face. I've told them all how angry and caustic he is to me and I'm avoiding him for my own good. Poor DD4 tried to get me to talk to H on the phone. She misses her daddy and so do I:(

Also being told that I need to get over the fact that I can't control that H is still bringing my DD4 around OW, even if it's just at work. (MIL is the one who brought my DD4 to work so OW could give her a gift.) And if I keep pushing the issue of OW around DD4 that I am going to squash any chances of a reconciliation. H will resent me for being controlling.

My H's issue with me (at least the most recent) is that I'm controlling. So, controlling my DD4's access (not his, just DD4) to other woman is another control issue for him to be mad about. He already has all the access to POSOW he wants.

I feel like this is a lose lose scenario. No matter what...I'm the unreasonable, controlling, evil wife. H is already poisoning DD4 - telling her that 2 overnights/week isn't enough. She has no concept of time so for her to mention it, I figure it must be H complaining about it.

Feeling frustrated today. And feeling that all hope is lost.

Fuzzy, try looking at this from the opposite angle:

You're WINNING.

Well, at least you're in the driver's seat.

So WH isn't getting his way? Oh, now whose fault is that???

I see you're in Plan B. This is a very common reaction to Plan B. It's called "reality crashing the door closed." WH now gets to see what life is going to be like without Fuzzy and the M.

See also that he's trying to manipulate DD4. For shame! That's on him, too. Your best bet is to explain to DD4 that when two people get married it's not right for one of them to have another boy/girlfriend. And that until daddy decides to leave OW and come home, you're just not going to talk with him.

But you need to make sure you don't poison her against him. Let her know that she has to visit with him because he's her daddy. But OW is not her new mommy!

He's a childish, befogged wayward. His behavior is predictable and routine. YOU can be the model of a good Plan B. And you'll be better for it, too!

Make them back this up. I would ask for citations that prove this. The truth is that it is the OPPOSITE. It is unhealthy for you to interact with your H because any contact wears you out emotionally and physically. His affair is so abusive that women actually have nervous breakdowns and years of PTSD from contact. So how will that be good for your 4 year old? It won't!

Let them know they don't know what they are talking about and that this advice comes from Dr Bill Harley, a clinical psychologist. If they have clear and compelling EVIDENCE that not being in contact with your abusive H is somehow bad for your DD, they should produce the evidence so we can show Dr Harley.


She needs to understand WHY it is so harmful for you to speak to her daddy. It would be very poor role modeling if she saw you interacting with your abusive husband as if nothing was wrong. That is not the kind of lesson you want to teach your child.


Why not stop listening to bad advice and use your own mind? That is my suggestion.. Of course it is not good for your child to be exposed to your H's affair. That is silly to assert that not allowing her to be exposed to his filthy affair will prevent reconciliation.


CAn I ask why you are posting nonsense like this? I am not sure why this is here. Unless it is for laughs. You are posting fogbabble for what reason?


You are allowing yourself to be defined by a wayward and his acolytes. Please say no to insanity and come back to reality.

The Plan B is working for sure.
WH wants to keep you engaged in his drama so that he still has a little bit of you in his life.
People saying you need to some day have contact.....not true. You can not have contact for the rest of your life if you choose. Having contact will create

drama
despair
frustration

none of these things good for your sweet child.

Ideally, she would have both parents together, raising her but the WH has set in motion a situation where it is threatened, temporarily and possibly permanently not happening and you must be strong for your child. Keep your own sanity first most in caring for her. You don't need to convince the neigh sayers though. They just don't get it. You won't convince them. Just live it. Live plan B unless your WH ends his affair or you truly do not care (way in the future).

FuzzyMath, it is completely IRRELEVANT what your friends, family and "therapist" say. What matters is YOUR PLAN.

The plan you have before you was devised by a clinical psychologist and is perfectly sound. I would stick to that and stop listening to silly people and fogged out waywards. You are allowing yourself to be blown around in the wind like a weed. That will drive you crazy.

I have no intention of listening to these people, but it's hard when EVERYONE is thinking I am being unreasonable. I have plenty of support to divorce him - the comments are "why drag it out? Just get it over with. It's better for you." I know people are giving me the best advice they know how. I am also aware that no one I speak to has successfully survived an affair...other than people on this board. I also have the mad skills of Dr Harley on my side.

I need a good slapping around from the experts to snap back into my senses. It's like a shot of adrenaline!!

ML - You are the best! I have no idea why I am repeating ANYTHING my dopey H says about me.

Steve H gave me the best advice and I need to brand it into my brain: Waywards are like drunks. Don't reason with them. Don't argue with them. Don't listen to them. Just take away the car keys.

I can tell you have been listening to some very negative, uninformed folks. Please start hanging with us. We will keep you grounded. This is a tough, emotional time, my friend, and you need the support of folks who are connected with reality and who know how this works.

It would be helpful if you could not allow your family and friends to tell you what he says. Are you in a DARK DARK, Plan B?

As dark as I can be and much better than a few weeks ago. H is using my IM and she is passing on only the facts. I do not see him at DD4 pick/up drop off...except 1x/week DD4 has class I drop her off for & he picks up. H and I see each other from a distance but I say goodbye to DD4 and she greets him without me. No speaking. We don't even look at each other.

That class will be over in 3 weeks and that'll be it. I'll schedule all future classes for my days so he can just pick her up from school. He'll only need to come to the house to drop her off and my parents run interference.

You are doing great! {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{FuzzyMath}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Try and stay in touch on a daily basis, if you can, so you don't get caught up in the negativity. It is hard to not get overwhelmed, but we will be here to help keep you grounded. Others who are in Plan B now are Scotland and reading. They can be a great support to you.

Hi, Fuzzy Math, I am in Plan B and am having a hard time as well, my WS has said he wants a dicorce but has not done nothing yet. It is tough Plan B, but yet empowering on other days. It is tough. Good Luck to you, I have young kids as well and it is hard on them not to know where their daddy is.

Did someone call say my name? HEHEHEHE

Fuzzymath, you have already received some excellent advice from ML.

I am glad that you said you will be changing that class after the 3 weeks are over, you have avoided the BIG 2x4's since you have recognized and solved that part yourself.

You are doing good. You are doing better than good. This is hard and having all of those people around you, telling you those opposite things is hard to get past, at first.

I found the best thing to do was be strong in YOUR convictions and just let people know that you know they are only trying to help you, but the way you really need help is to support YOUR plan and not convince you of another one. Let them know that you have considered all of you options and THIS is the path you have chosen and you would love their support in helping you achieve what you have set your mind on.

I also found it useful to explain to people that this program was developed by a psychiatrist who have helped saved THOUSANDS of marriages in his 40+ year career. He has books, a radio show and a website. Let them know that this is what you decided was your best option and you WILL be happy, one day.

Then, you start actually healing from your WH's A and you start to become happy. They'll stop offering their advice once they see that you are handling this all much better.

You're doing GREAT. Keep your chin up dear.

ML - Have been following reading's and scotty's threads and that's been helpful. I know I'm doing the right thing but it doesn't feel right, if you get my meaning. It doesn't help when everyone is questioning me. Thankfully, my atty seems to be on board with how I'm handling this.

Mason - I've read your thread and we're in similar situations, although my H and OW work side by side in a small office, for like 10 hours a day. H tells me he can end it with her and still be her coworker. Ha! My response...why haven't you been able to do that yet? And how do you expect me to live like that?

Scotty - I 2x4'd myself! I am getting to the point where I don't really even WANT to see him. He looks so miserable/unhappy/angry that I don't want to be around him. He's nothing like the man I married.

I asked him a few weeks ago - you're getting everything you want: more time with OW and your dream job. Why are you miserable? He answered: I'm not getting everything I want. Translation: I want you, OW, dream job, nice house, self-respect and a happy family. You're being a b***h for not letting me have it!

It's no fun being with the OW when the wife isn't there waiting at home.

Waywards are like drunks. Don't reason with them. Don't argue with them. Don't listen to them. Just take away the car keys.



Love this!!!!!!!

Doing OK in Plan B. But I had a question about asking my H about the following:

Before Plan B, H and I talked about him doing a few things for our DD4 and around house. Namely, DD4's b-day is coming up and I would like to get her a swingset/slide. H was supposed to build it himself but that never happened. I think if he does agree to pay for a swingset, he'd want to build it himself but all his tools are at the house I live in. Maybe he'll just fork over the money but I doubt it.

Secondly, we have some things in a storage unit that need to be moved and he promised to chop down a tree in the yard before XMAS.

I guess my question is - is asking him to do this stuff a good idea? Not just about Plan B but I feel like asking him to do these things will (in his crazy mind) assuage his guilt or make him think that I now owe him.

I know in Plan B that he should be dead to me...but in reality he is not. Definitely not for my DD4. So maybe I talk to him (via my IM of course) only about the swingset and hire people for everything else and then get him to split the bill??

I'm pinching every penny these days so need some advice. Thanks!

What you need to do is do everything yourself. Your WH and no longer a UNIT. You are acting as separate entities. In short, you need to NOT ask your WH about anything. Not even the swingset.

Either you will get your DD4 a swingset this year, or you will save up the money and get one when you can afford it.

Nope, no coming over to fix things, etc, you are in Plan B sweetie and IT SUCKS. BUT, it WILL get better.

I would agree with Scotland.
Either you get the swingset yourself and have someone put it together or don't get one. I would skip it if it were me, newly in B.
The storage unit and chopping are separate things? Connected?
I would handle that stuff another way without requesting he do anything.

You do need to learn some skills in self help in plan B.

Absolutely he is not dead for dd4.....he is her daddy!

But mom and dad need to keep their communication, even through IM to the basics so that plan B can work its magic on you. You disengage and detach and get stronger to recover from betrayel. I know it is hard.

OK. The logistics throw me off. I'm married to him, he's DD4's dad but I can't depend on him for anything. A hard lesson for me to learn. You'd think I would have learned that lesson by now.

I gave it some more thought and will just go lower budget on the swingset and get someone to help assemble it. Times like these I wish I had a brother!

I'll work out some other solutions for my storage unit and the tree. Anyone want to chop a tree down? Free firewood!

Rough week.

Confirmed I am 8 weeks pregnant. H responded to my request for legal separation by responding that he wants a divorce. He knows I am pregnant. I almost think he filed because I am pregnant. His response to the news was...what are you going to do about it?

Did I expect him to be happy? Or to say, "I'm dumping the OW and quitting my job. Please take me back." No. Just not act so damn inconvenienced.

On the one hand, I'm sad about D. On the other hand, at least I know what direction I'm going in and feel somewhat relieved. I am not sure I could ever love this man again. And if I did, it could not be the man I see before me today. It would have to be a person who showed remorse, humility, regret and wanted to change. My H is none of those things. He had everything and he's throwing it all away.

Talked to my IC today and he said he's worried that my H will be able to parent the child. No duh?! We both think that H will resent me and child forever and ever. Although, H was pretty distant during my 1st pregnancy and literally fell in love with DD4 when she was born.

I do ask myself...can I bring a child into the world where it could face such heartache from a parent? Is my love enough to shield this child from the rejection of a parent?

I'm jumping ahead of myself...who knows what his reaction will be many months from now.

Honestly, I think his reaction is more about the fact that he wants to remain cake-eating. When I confirmed pregnancy with him, I told him that I will not even consider reconciling with him until he quits his job. He responded..."we'll see."

I broke Plan B to give him confirmation of pregnancy. Going back to darkness. Although have to see him next week for pow wow between attorneys. H wants one of those nice friendly divorces (even though he's been nothing but nasty and uncooperative) and my atty and I say no way.

Can your attorney meet with the other attorney without your presence? So you can remain in the safe haven of darkness to the drama of the affair?

Staying away from WH's grasp which is leaning towards even more cruel would be ideal.

Congrats on the pregnancy.....may the child be a true joy despite the situation you are in. (((hug)))

Thanks Reading.

The timing is the worst. It's not planned and I was using birth control. H and I hadn't been intimate all that frequently. But it does take just once. I am happy despite the other circumstances and could never do anything other than raise the baby...even if I will have to do it all alone. My grandmother raised 2 children in the 1950s all alone - divorced one of her husbands who then died - and did it working 2-3 jobs. If she could do it, so can I.

I'll talk with my attorney about it. It's the other side that's requesting it...maybe I can go and sit in another room so atty can have access to me without me seeing H. Again, I think H has fantasy about a nice friendly divorce where he's in charge.

Talked with my parents about what's been going on. Told them that my daughter recently said to me that "Daddy doesn't want to see you." My mom said that he made a point to tell her the same thing.

Funny...I'm the one who blocked his calls, emails and avoid him. But now it's he who does not want to see me.

'It's the other side that's requesting it'

Well then....its not a requirement! I, personally (meaning me, reading) in such a situation would tell my attorney that I will not meet but that the attorneys can discuss and my attorney can call me on the phone to discuss if need be or talk about whatever and go back to discuss more with WH's attorney later.

But...that is me.

Do you really want to be there? Even in another room?

Spoke to Steve H today. Gave him update on where I stand with WH filing for divorce and that I am in Plan B.

Steve wants me to back away from Plan B a bit. He wants me to limit contact with H for sure but he wants me to, whenever I do see WH, to reiterate that I don't want a divorce and that we can have a happy marriage. He wants me to shut the door but leave it slightly ajar, reminding my husband periodically of why he fell in love with me the first place.

I am so confused. Frustrated. And feeling so low. Does someon have a rock I can crawl under?

Part of me wants to stay in Plan B and just handle everything through my atty but that will cost me money. Put up a big fight legally - the whole nine yards.

Another part wants to throw my hands up in the air and just say - fine, take everything. You've already taken so much, just take it all. But that'll also cost me money, time with my daughter, my future.

The other part wants to do just what Steve says. That'll cost me pride. And I worry that my WH will just interpret is as me being clingy, desperate, etc.

Heard from my atty today that now my WH wants to go to counseling with me. I asked atty what the point was and he said it was so we got along during divorce. I told him I have no problem getting along with WH - it was he who always started drama with me. Think WH wants another platform to try to convince me this is all my fault and that I should just get over everything and move on.

I think it's time I move to Divorcing/Divorced forum.

No rocks for you!

I know this is tough. You have several ways to go and only YOU can decide which way to do things.

Steve is wise so perhaps your WH will agree to phone counseling with him. You really don't need to do counseling with WH with any other counselor...they are the kiss of death for marriages almost always. You might be able to use this request of WH to your advantage to get him to Steve. Respond through atty "Fuzzy Math is agreeable to phone counseling through Steve Harley of marriagebuilders coaching center. Its a world renown organization for marriage counseling. Fuzzy Math agrees to no other counseling at this time"

If you do what Steve says and give peeks......make sure you are not clingy and desperate looking when seen but radiant and strong and fair and wise and growing a darling sweet baby who lifts you up from the whole sad scene.

Reading,

Thanks. Just feeling crappy. Tired. Alone. I'll get over it.

I hadn't even thought of Steve. That's brilliant!

I do think the point of the counselor is not to save marriage but to get me to accept the unacceptable - that my WH is going to continue his affair, abandon his family and ruin our lives. He wants someone else to convince me of this, so I'll be more pliable during a D. So, I doubt he'd agree to Steve.

I remember that when we went to marriage counseling, the point was for counselor to convince me what a horrible wife I was. The second we talked about my H, H didn't like counselor anymore and we stopped going.