Marriage Builders
Posted By: rpg Can it be safed? WW - 12/03/10 06:20 PM
Reading SAA currently and almost done with it.

I was deployed for a year, went to a school for 6 months and then got stationed overseas while the Army denied my family travel because my W and oldest daughter are seeing counselors for depression on a weekly basis. We've now been married for almost 12 years and have 4 kids.

Things seemed to get better until my W started getting more and more involved with the local volunteer theater where she lives in the states. She finds happiness in doing theater so I thought it was an okay thing to support. Minus the huge babysitting bills. So we do argue about money. I've been working on getting the family travel approved and setting up things overseas.
In the past two months or so she's had an EA with someone from the theater and about three weeks ago it became a PA and she said she doesn't want to come overseas anymore and now wants a divorce.
I don't want a divorce. I think her mind is clouded by the OM. She says he meets her EN which I obviously can't very well from overseas.
I'm fairly helpless over here but I'm going home for Christmas.

I would like to implement Plan A, but there is really no way for me to check on her. She said that she would 'take a step back from OM' a week ago but I found out she just had lunch with him the other day. She backed off her demand for divorce because of financial reasons.
She has mentioned that she wants a divorce and I can try to impress her by being a good dad to the kids so maybe she'll like me again and we could get remarried.

What am I to do? Can I save this? What am I to do while home?
How do I expose the affair to the public? Try to contact the OM's ex-wife maybe?
Posted By: wannabophim Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/03/10 07:52 PM
I would try to make a telephone appointment with the Harley's ASAP. This is tough...I want to say that you should call up her family and tell them what is going on and that you need their support. Also you should figure out how you could meet your wife's ENs as best as you can...clearly you are not in an ideal situation. Can you email your kids daily? Set up Skype? Send flowers via the internet? Talk about your future together?

Also, did you POJA your working away from the family? That is, did you and your wife discuss your career and agree to you working in another country? Because if she didn't even want you to be in the military w/ the possibility of being overseas, then it will be hard. One reason you get married is to share a life together...nobody to share with when you are away for so long.
Posted By: rpg Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/04/10 02:16 AM
Yes, we did POJA for the one year deployment and follow on 6 month school.
We also did POJA for the follow on assignment to Germany, however, the army messed up the family travel, so I had to get here alone. I've been here for about 9 months by myself trying to get everything squared away. I was making headway too, but now she found someone else and won't complete the necessary forms stateside to get the approval for travel. She loved Germany on my first assignment here and still says she would love to come to Germany again. However, now there is the OM and her other excuse is that she doesn't want to move the kids.

Time difference makes it hard to talk to the kids daily but I do get them on the weekends on skype w/ video. I try to call home daily, but now she just asks what I want to argue about. A lot of times she won't say anything.

How can I work on exposure from here?
Posted By: rpg Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/04/10 08:03 AM
Update:

I talked to WW's counselor and her sister about the affair and once she found out she was EXTREMELY pissed off. Telling me I had no right going behind her back and telling them and to stop.

When I called home, my daughter tells me that she saw the OM again for lunch. So I decide to tell her best friend. She gets pissed off again and denies having seen him for lunch.
She threatened to go have sex with the OM for me contacting her friend. I told her I'm contacting people to stop the affair. If she's not seeing him or talking to him then there's no reason for me to contact anyone.

She said when I come home for leave I'll need to find somewhere other than the house to stay because she won't let me in. Hopefully she'll change her mind on that.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/04/10 04:11 PM
Originally Posted by rpg
She said when I come home for leave I'll need to find somewhere other than the house to stay because she won't let me in. Hopefully she'll change her mind on that.

What? Are you a pansy? You stay in your own d@mn house. She can leave if she wants. You need to sack up and be a man in this situation. Command some respect. Don't show fear. Don't slowly trickle out exposure. Expose to EVERYONE at the same time. Make a list of potential exposure targets and expose. Find out more about OM. Get background on him. Expose to all his family and friends. Expose to the theater group. Your a military guy, so you should understand the idea of a precise tactical attack. That is what you are doing. You do a quick hit on all the most vital targets all at once. Don't give the enemy time to circle the wagons. Stop operating out of a position of fear. Don't show weakness. Operate out of a position of strength. Don't put up with a cheating wife. Do everything in your power to end her affair. Your WW doesn't want a divorce. She wants the perks of marriage with none of the responsibility. She has brought up divorce for 2 reasons: 1) as an excuse for her behavior. She will argue that she is entitled to see other people now that she told your she's wants a divorce. She doesn't currently have any plans to move forward. She's just figuring since she "broke up" with you, she can start dating already without consequence. 2) She's using divorce to manipulate and control you. She wants you to back off her side relationship. So, if you try and interfere, she'll throw the D-word around as a threat to get you to back off. You can't back off. Otherwise, she'll keep you in this limbo forever, you paying her bills while she bangs the OM. It's better to risk divorce than accept the status quo continuing indefinitely. You stand up and make her respect you. Get a list of potential exposure targets, and start planning to expose. Exposure targets should include all her family, friends, theater people, and OM's family. Most of the time it's easier to put the heat on the OM and get him to back off your WW. A lot of OM (especially theater guys I'm sure) are wusses who are afraid of the husband. A lot of times the threat doesn't seem real until there is an actual confrontation with the husband. Put the fear of God in this wussie OM.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/04/10 04:25 PM
rpg, can you get a leave of absence to come home? That would be the best solution.

In the meantime, I would make up a list of exposure targets and expose the hell out of this affair. Expose to her family, your family, close friends, pastor, and most especially, the OM's friends and family. Does he have a facebook page?

Tell your kids the truth.

Do this strategically by doing it all on the same day in order to create a tsunami effect. Like Jim said, trickle exposure is about like bringing a pea shooter to a gun fight. You will just get your [censored] shot off for no benefit. If you are going to infuriate your wife, at least get your money's worth.

When you call/email family and friends, tell them about your wife's affair, say you are trying to save your marriage and ask them all to use their influence to persuade her to end her affair.

Send out a private message to select people on OM's facebook page. Space them out a minute apart so fb doesn't shut you down for flooding.

Here are some sample letters:

Facebook exposure letters

Dear friend of Joe Scumbag,

It grieves me to write this letter but I believe all of his friends should know the kind of person he really is. Joe is having an affair with my wife while I am deployed in the US Army and serving my country in Germany. My wife, Sally Smith, and I have been married for 12 years and have 4 very heartbroken children. I would be happy to provide the evidence to anyone who asks.

I am asking you to use your influence to persuade JoeScumbag to leave my wife and family alone. My deployment has been hard enough on my family without his interference in my marriage.

I would appreciate it if someone would notify his parents and ask them to call me at xxx-www-xxxx.

Thank you, BH

Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/04/10 04:29 PM
Originally Posted by rpg
Time difference makes it hard to talk to the kids daily but I do get them on the weekends on skype w/ video. I try to call home daily, but now she just asks what I want to argue about. A lot of times she won't say anything.

rpg, I would also suggest you get the kids together on SKYPE and tell them that their mom is having an adulterous affair with this man and that you are doing what you can to save the marriage. Tell them you will be home soon and that they are to tell you whenever her adultery partner tries to enter their home.

I would make it clear to your WW that this loser is not to be in the family home around your children.

On a side note, Dr Harley believes that anyone who has an affair with the spouse of a deployed soldier should get 10 years in prison. I happen to agree with him.
Posted By: rpg Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/04/10 11:00 PM
Thanks for the point blank advice. Much appreciated.

I told her I'm staying in the house. (Didn't say this part, but I'll call the cops to let me in if necessary.)
I was approved for two weeks of leave over christmas to go home and already have tickets in hand. The thing that sucks about that is that after two weeks of seeing the kids and trying to insert myself in her life as much as possible I'll just leave again

Yes, I'm in the military, but deep inside I'm a softy.
I would like for her to tell me she's done with him so I could not go public to the entire town. But she is in a show with him that runs through January. Regardless if the affair is done or not she would see him during the show. I asked her to account for her time other than the show and she said that she won't because I wouldn't believe her anyway.
She tells me that the affair is not the issue. The issue is my emontional detachment, not enough intimacy and not enough words of affection. I agree with the latter sentence because of my absence I can't provide those anywhere near enough, but that doesn't justify an affair.

I asked her if the affair is stopped or not. She wouldn't answer the question and after a 20 minute conversation posted as her FB status "I'm a whore and a terrible wife!"
On my brother's FB she posted "BS wants to let everyone know I had an affair"
I thought I was sure of who the OM is, but after the conversation I'm in the dark again. She never did share the name of the OM, so I'm not sure if I figured out the right person.
Exposure won't really work unless I have the OM's name, right?

I hate having to put my kids through this. WW yelled through the house to leave her alone because we're talking about divorce.

-crushed
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/04/10 11:05 PM
Originally Posted by rpg
I thought I was sure of who the OM is, but after the conversation I'm in the dark again. She never did share the name of the OM, so I'm not sure if I figured out the right person.
Exposure won't really work unless I have the OM's name, right?


rpg, the best way to save your marriage is to expose the affair. So find out who the OM is and take it from there. Here is what Dr Harley says about it and he is right:

Originally Posted by Dr Willard Harley
So when a betrayed spouse asks for my advice, I usually take the position that infidelity is the greatest betrayal of all. After an affair, trust -- an essential ingredient in marriage -- is dashed. If the unfaithful spouse is offended by being exposed, so be it. Exposure is very likely to end the affair, lifting the fog that has overcome the unfaithful spouse, helping him or her become truly repentant and willing to put energy and effort into a full marital recovery. In my experience with thousands of couples who struggle with the fallout of infidelity, exposure has been the single most important first step toward recovery. It not only helps end the affair, but it also provides support to the betrayed spouse, giving him or her stamina to hold out for ultimate recovery.
here
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/04/10 11:09 PM
Originally Posted by rpg
I asked her if the affair is stopped or not. She wouldn't answer the question and after a 20 minute conversation posted as her FB status "I'm a [censored] and a terrible wife!"
On my brother's FB she posted "BS wants to let everyone know I had an affair"

WHY did she say this, rpg? Did you tell her you were going to expose her afffair? If so, I would stop giving her your battle plan unless you want to be disarmed.

Why not just ask her straight out who the OM is? Do your kids know?
Posted By: rpg Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/04/10 11:20 PM
Why do I want OM's parents to contact me, btw?
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/04/10 11:20 PM
Quote
Regardless if the affair is done or not she would see him during the show.

Find out who OM is before you do anything else. Can you talk to your brother? It sounds like he knows something, or she wouldn't have posted that on his FB. Maybe you can get him to come out with a name.

If you can get this A exposed and get WW on board with NC she won't be seeing him during the show because she'll have to quit the show.

Quote
The issue is my emontional detachment, not enough intimacy and not enough words of affection. I agree with the latter sentence because of my absence I can't provide those anywhere near enough, but that doesn't justify an affair.


She's blame-shifting. rpg, there are a lot of enlisted men with wives waiting for them at home, and those wives aren't running around on them. Disregard her garbage-talk.
Posted By: rpg Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/04/10 11:33 PM
I asked her straight up and she wouldn't say. I asked her the name I was suspecting and she wouldn't confirm or deny.

I didn't tell her the battle plan, she kept asking what I plan on doing. I just told her I want the affair to stop.

I just confirmed the OM. So I'm sending FB messages and emails.
Will also call her mom later.
Posted By: rpg Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/04/10 11:35 PM
My brother doesn't know, he happened to msg me while I was talking to her so she went to his FB page as well.
Posted By: rpg Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/04/10 11:51 PM
Supposedly the kids don't know of the affair. Just that mom keeps mentioning divorce on the phone.

I'm sure they suspect something, my youngest is uncomfortable mentioning his name to me already.
I haven't talked to them about it yet. I was hoping to go home on leave and sit them all down together on the couch and talk to them. Over the phone sucks.
Posted By: rpg Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/05/10 12:07 AM
after 10 minutes of sending FB messages, I got this msg: "Wow you just ruined any chance of saving our marrage. Plus you pointed the finger at the wrong person"
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/05/10 12:41 AM
Originally Posted by rpg
Why do I want OM's parents to contact me, btw?

You want to ask them to influence their son to leave your wife alone.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/05/10 12:45 AM
Originally Posted by rpg
after 10 minutes of sending FB messages, I got this msg: "Wow you just ruined any chance of saving our marrage. Plus you pointed the finger at the wrong person"

She will be angry about the exposure and will try and throw you off balance, so don't let her slow you down. As far as "ruining any chance of saving" the marriage, didn't she tell you wanted a divorce anyway? laugh

They ALL say you "ruined your chance" when you expose so don't let that bother you a bit. The madder she is the harder you hit the target.

Did you say they were in a theatre group together? If so, i would email the director of the theatre group and ask him to let one of them go due to the affair. Ask him if he would folks to know that the wife of a deployed soldier is having an affair within his group.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/05/10 02:03 AM
Originally Posted by rpg
after 10 minutes of sending FB messages, I got this msg: "Wow you just ruined any chance of saving our marrage. Plus you pointed the finger at the wrong person"
Ignore this. She has been exposed. Expect this sort of response from her. She'll be spouting all kinds of [censored] right now. Did you see The Exorcist? She'll behave like the possessed kid, with her head spinning around on her neck.Let her know one thing: "I will do whatever it takes to save my marriage." Excellent, rpg.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/05/10 05:27 AM
"They ALL say you "ruined your chance" when you expose so don't let that bother you a bit. The madder she is the harder you hit the target."

I think you got the right OM.

"Did you say they were in a theatre group together? If so, i would email the director of the theatre group and ask him to let one of them go due to the affair. Ask him if he would folks to know that the wife of a deployed soldier is having an affair within his group."

I would expose the whole theater group. Even if WW was the star she can leave the show now. Shows have understudies.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/05/10 05:38 AM
The only thing you ruined was her affair, not your chance. Keep up the pressure. Your only goal right now is to establish NC between her and OM by any means necessary. That is what exposure is for. Your kids should know too. Also, you need to finish your exposure in one fell swoop. Each time you expose, it is going to piss her off all over again. You need to get in done in one shot, so it doesn't keep pissing her off. WW's usually get over exposure in 2-3 weeks. That is, unless you slowly keep exposing instead of all at once.

Maybe you need to call the theater director and tell him, "listen, I know someone is banging my wife. Which one is it?" The people in the group probably have their suspicions.
Posted By: rpg Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/05/10 09:05 AM
FB is telling me to slow down, and she just un-friended me. I do have to say that it is very heartbreaking to send all these messages.

You are correct, she said she's done with the marriage and there is no chance to reconcile only to come right back and say that NOW I've ruined any chances.

Will definitely contact the theater.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/05/10 01:14 PM
Normal WW response. Also jwmc said you need to get all the exposre done ASAP. So keep exposing.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/05/10 04:57 PM
Originally Posted by rpg
FB is telling me to slow down, and she just un-friended me. I do have to say that it is very heartbreaking to send all these messages.

Copy and paste all her friends and his friends in a WORD doc for safekeeping.

Quote
You are correct, she said she's done with the marriage and there is no chance to reconcile only to come right back and say that NOW I've ruined any chances.

They ALL say that!

Quote
Will definitely contact the theater.

Good man! Did you find the OM's parents on his facebook list of friends?
Posted By: rpg Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/05/10 09:38 PM
People are starting to repost my letter in their FB statuses. Yikes.
OMXW(?) is sharing info about the OM.

OM parents are not on FB.
And WW said she'll have divorce papers ready for me to sign when I come home.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/05/10 09:48 PM
Originally Posted by rpg
People are starting to repost my letter in their FB statuses. Yikes.
OMXW(?) is sharing info about the OM.

Great!! This sounds like it is going well.

Quote
OM parents are not on FB.
And WW said she'll have divorce papers ready for me to sign when I come home.

Tell her you won't be signing anything, thank you. smile
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/06/10 03:50 PM
Originally Posted by rpg
OM parents are not on FB.
And WW said she'll have divorce papers ready for me to sign when I come home.

She's just trying to punish you for ruining her affair and not doing as she told you to do. She can't control you anymore, and she's trying to puff her chest out and act like she's still in control.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/06/10 04:07 PM
Quote
And WW said she'll have divorce papers ready for me to sign when I come home.

Uh-huh. That'll get her nothing. Tell her you're only goal is to save your M, not sign divorce papers.
Posted By: helpthelostdads Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/06/10 05:06 PM
90% of what a WW will say is all bluffing. Divorce papers aren�t simply there for you to sign unless she thinks she�s just going to draft things up and have you sign and agree to all her terms. I have news for her. It aint going to happen.

Let her know you�re not signing anything. There won�t be an amicable divorce if there is a divorce. Make that clear to her.

Also let her know that you will pursue charges of adultery and will subpoena the OM to testify about the affair. Will that happen? Not likely, but she doesn�t know that because most people don�t know the law.

Also let her know that if she does this that you will pursue full custody of the kids and will expect child support from her.

In other words, paint divorce as a nasty path she doesn�t want to go down.

Let her know you want to save your marriage instead of going down that path.

All of that being said:

I went through this as you are going through it, except that I didn�t know about things while I was deployed. I didn�t find out until I got home. I was emotionally crushed and devastated. You at least aren�t going into this blind and the best thing I see is that you�re not afraid of ticking her off, which is very good.

Don�t assume anything. Men get custody of kids when they play their cards right. Women win custody so often because men very often don�t fight for it or walk away. You can make it clear to her that you�re not that kind of man.
Posted By: rpg Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/06/10 09:24 PM
both OM and WW have deleted their FB pages.
OM is pleading to his XW that he didn't do anything with WW after he was confronted by XW.
WW is adamant that I got the wrong OM, but she admitted to sleeping with OM to other people already.

WW called and started reading D-papers to me so she can fill them out. frown
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/06/10 09:44 PM
Originally Posted by rpg
WW called and started reading D-papers to me so she can fill them out. frown

She's just trying to get a rise out of you.

No affair = no reason to get divorced.

Don't engage in conversation about divorce with her. Just tell her this:

"Listen, I don't want a divorce. I think we can work out our marriage. If you still want to go through divorce, I will fight you all the way and it will get nasty. I will counterfile on grounds of adultery, I will call you and OM to testify, I will fight for full custody, and will fight you on every last dime even if it makes us both go broke. I will not lie over and take this. I will fight you all the way. Now that you know where I stand, we don't need to talk about this anymore because I'm not going to budge.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/06/10 11:35 PM
Originally Posted by rpg
both OM and WW have deleted their FB pages.
OM is pleading to his XW that he didn't do anything with WW after he was confronted by XW.
WW is adamant that I got the wrong OM, but she admitted to sleeping with OM to other people already.

WW called and started reading D-papers to me so she can fill them out. frown
Oh, baloney. She printed some garbage off the internet. Trust me, if she's actually gone to an attorney there is NO WAY she'd be reading anything to you right now. You'd be hearing from her attorney.
rpg: "WW, I have zero interest in hearing this, so you can stop reading it to me now. But I am excited to talk about the great marriage we can have."
WW: AND I GET 100% SUPPORT AND ALL THE TIME I WANT WITH THE KIDS AND YOU HAVE TO BUY ME A PONY!
rpg: "WW, I have zero interest in hearing this, so you can stop reading it to me now. But I am excited to talk about the great marriage we can have."
WW: Oh, SHUT UP about our great marriage! Our marriage SUCKS! You've been cruel abusive mean unavailable fill in the blank!"
rpg: "WW, I have zero interest in hearing this, so you can stop reading it to me now. But I am excited to talk about the great marriage we can have."

Repeat as necessary.
Posted By: Scotland Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/07/10 12:45 AM
"I don't talk divorce, let's talk MARRIAGE."

grin

Interchange with the above quotes as necessary.
Posted By: Scotland Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/07/10 12:45 AM
t/j MB, can I get a pony too. end t/j
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/07/10 12:48 AM
Originally Posted by Scotland
t/j MB, can I get a pony too. end t/j
Darn it. I KNEW this was going to happen. Okay, you can have a pony, but that's IT. No other posters are allowed to have ponies!
dance2
Posted By: rpg Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/07/10 10:45 AM
I used a slightly modified version of jmw's paragraph and followed it up with saying how I will fight for us and for the family. That one day she'll be thankful that I didn't give up so easily. And reminded her of all the support that's waiting for her through myself, her family and friends.

When WW's sister stopped by to check up on her, WW ran away and hasn't returned yet. This sucks.
Posted By: aussieswife Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/07/10 11:16 AM
rpg keep at it. I was like your WW .... right now she can't bear to hear another person say she is WRONG ... or think about what you are doing to save the m,,, she doesn't want to think about it because that means she will have to start facing what she has done. So she won't for a while.... chip away at the wall.

she really doesn't know why everyone is "picking" on her - I mean isn't it all "YOUR" fault ??? if in doubt just ask her MrRollieEyes

Honestly I don't know how my family put up with me ... but thankfully they did.

however rpg don't you dare EVER blame yourself for her affair she chose it as did I in my case.

take care rpg

t/j M /bliss I don't want a pony, I mean who needs one? think No..... I want ..... a HORSEY!!!!!!!!!!! named Sparkles flirt t/j
Posted By: rpg Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/07/10 12:28 PM
Yes, WW does blame me for everything that went wrong with the marriage. I'm trying to get her to focus on the nice things in our past, but she won't acknowledge it.
I hope WW can calm down enough to talk to me normal by the time I get home.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/07/10 02:34 PM
Originally Posted by rpg
Yes, WW does blame me for everything that went wrong with the marriage. I'm trying to get her to focus on the nice things in our past, but she won't acknowledge it.
I hope WW can calm down enough to talk to me normal by the time I get home.

She won't acknowledge anything until their is NC w/ OM for at least 2-3 months. Don't waste your time and energy trying to get through to your WW. Spend your time and energy killing her affair and establishing NC. Only then will anything be able to improve.
Posted By: rpg Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/07/10 03:51 PM
Originally Posted by aussieswife
she really doesn't know why everyone is "picking" on her - I mean isn't it all "YOUR" fault ??? if in doubt just ask her MrRollieEyes


I don't quite follow.
Posted By: helpthelostdads Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/07/10 04:20 PM
That'a sarcasm you're not getting.

Stay strong, don't buy into her manipulation about reading your D papers. D isn't dictated by a spouse. It's a legal decision involving lawyers.

I didn't really understand this in my dealings with my WXW. I would freak out when I'd get a demand from her, as if that's what the court would do. Well, it didn't go that way. I got MUCH more than she wanted me to get.

Your goal is to save your marriage. So follow the advice on that front, which for now involves ignoring her rants and simply repeating the comments you've been told to repeat.
Posted By: aussieswife Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/07/10 04:49 PM
rpg

what I mean is that your ww blames everything in her whole world on you right now.... she has to blame someone other than herself... so you are it.

THIS IS PART OF THE FOG of the affair. Please forgive me if you thought I was being serious here ... I was being sarcastic of her attitude .... it is EXACTLY what I did to my DH .. blamed him for absolutely everything that was wrong in my life .... not wanting to question my own actions or justifications. I tried to tell everyone.. myself included... it was his fault .. GARBAGE ... that is likely what you will be getting from her some while.

never fall for her "you made me do it" attitude. NOTHING not one single thing you did or did not do made her do anything... it was and is and has always been entirely her decision and choice.

Posted By: rpg Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/07/10 06:41 PM
I think what threw me off was the 'if in doubt ask her' with the rolly eyes.

She's confronting people now and telling them to chose sides. That might help or make it worse.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/07/10 06:45 PM
Normal WW response.

Sit tight and ride out the storm.
Posted By: rpg Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/07/10 07:25 PM
This is scary, she left her sister high and dry at our house and is still not back. She left about 5 p.m., and it's now noon the next day.
Should we call the cops?
Posted By: Powerbane Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/07/10 09:01 PM
If she has the kids with her - I would say yes.

No one from her family or the theater can get to her?

Good Luck with this...
Posted By: rpg Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/08/10 11:20 AM
just found out from OMXW that OM is a pothead.
Should I ask WW to take a drug test? Or just take her to get one done?
Posted By: Unfettered Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/08/10 12:21 PM
Originally Posted by rpg
just found out from OMXW that OM is a pothead.
Should I ask WW to take a drug test? Or just take her to get one done?

I don't see how you could really force her to do that. If you really wanted, you could call the cops if you know they are getting high together, but I would reserve that until plan D as it would help your custody battle.

If anything, you could maybe use the OM's drug use as a reason to get a restraining order to keep him away from yours kids. Making WW choose between seeing OM and her kids is a great way to add strife to the affair.
Posted By: rpg Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/08/10 11:42 PM
update:
so had a calm discussion about stuff today.
From what I gather, WW only slept with OM once, does not have an emotional connection with OM, has not been with OM since D-day other than in the theater for work, not willing to move to join me because she doesn't want to deal with transitioning the children and that she's done with me, only needs me for the financial support, kids are doing fine.
Done as in: doesn't want to do anything with me, work on the marriage or move to re-unite the family.

That's a tough wall to chip away at. frown
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/09/10 12:40 AM
Originally Posted by rpg
update:
From what I gather, WW only slept with OM once, does not have an emotional connection with OM, has not been with OM since D-day other than in the theater for work, not willing to move to join me because she doesn't want to deal with transitioning the children and that she's done with me, only needs me for the financial support, kids are doing fine.
Done as in: doesn't want to do anything with me, work on the marriage or move to re-unite the family.

That's a tough wall to chip away at. frown



"From what I gather, WW only slept with OM once, does not have an emotional connection with OM, has not been with OM since D-day other than in the theater for work"

Standard WW lies.

"not willing to move to join me because she doesn't want to deal with transitioning the children and that she's done with me, only needs me for the financial support, kids are doing fine.
Done as in: doesn't want to do anything with me, work on the marriage or move to re-unite the family."

Time to get a lawyer, remove most of the financial support per lawyers guidance, file for custody.

Posted By: rpg Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/10/10 02:48 PM
update:
WW is definitely in the withdrawal stage.
When I call home, the phone gets handed off to the kids. They are always excited to talk to me which is good. And she talks positive about me to the kids, at least while I'm on the phone. She said she won't do anything while I'm home. I'll get to run house and kids all by myself.
She asked me to stop talking to her friends.
I've got a lawyer appointment for while I'm home. I don't want a divorce though.
Also have an appointment with her counselor so all three of us sit down and talk.
She won't say why she left that night or what she did. Just that she went over to a married couple's house and slept there. I'm trying hard to just show her my love and not dig further, but am I letting her get away with abandoning house and kids?

Posted By: jmwc95 Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/10/10 04:05 PM
Originally Posted by rpg
I'm trying hard to just show her my love and not dig further, but am I letting her get away with abandoning house and kids?

If she abandons the house and kids, it's good for you. It gives her more consequences if she does divorce. Eventually she'll want time with her kids once the fog rolls away, and to do so, she'll have to go through you (if you take advantage of this legally). Losing the kids may snap her out of the fog and get her to work on the marriage again.

You see, you were going to not come back to your house and then she would be in the drivers seat. Now you have exposed and taken back control in your marriage. Keep it up and don't back down.
Posted By: rpg Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/12/10 03:10 PM
Any advice on what I should while I'm home for two weeks?

15 hours til I head to the airport. dance2
then another 10 to get there. sleep
Posted By: rpg Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/16/10 04:25 AM
Things are turning for the worse. WW keeps running away. She keeps reading D papers to me and when I try to counter with loving messages she either runs or gets really angry. I was re-reading some stuff I'm SAA and she threw all my books nearby, to include my bible, out of the window. She's doing all this with an almost maniacal laugh.
I don't want a divorce. But I'm starting to have doubts that it is salvageable.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/16/10 01:51 PM
Originally Posted by rpg
Things are turning for the worse. WW keeps running away. She keeps reading D papers to me and when I try to counter with loving messages she either runs or gets really angry. I was re-reading some stuff I'm SAA and she threw all my books nearby, to include my bible, out of the window. She's doing all this with an almost maniacal laugh.
I don't want a divorce. But I'm starting to have doubts that it is salvageable.

This is normal. WSs typically act out the first few weeks after exposure. Just be calm, don't try and preach. Act like her fits of acting out don't affect you, and she'll stop. Just document her actions in case it does eventually go to divorce court. Your goals is to kill her affair by any means necessary. If there is no OM to run to, she'll probably stay with you, even if she isn't happy about it. Most women do not leave until they have another man lined up. Ruin her plans, and she'll likely stick it out with you, even if it is hostile for a little while. Keep up with plan A and don't act needy or preachy. If she acts up like that again, maybe call a family member to get their help removing her from the house. You might want to keep a voice activated digital recorder handy because a lot of WWs will start claiming abuse.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/16/10 02:57 PM
Originally Posted by rpg
Things are turning for the worse. WW keeps running away. She keeps reading D papers to me and when I try to counter with loving messages she either runs or gets really angry. I was re-reading some stuff I'm SAA and she threw all my books nearby, to include my bible, out of the window. She's doing all this with an almost maniacal laugh.
I don't want a divorce. But I'm starting to have doubts that it is salvageable.
Did you see the movie "The Exorcist" where that sweet little girl becomes possessed? Equate this with your WW right now.

She threw your books out the window because she is 'possessed' by her A. She's likely to do a lot of weird things. Don't let that discourage you.
Posted By: helpthelostdads Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/16/10 03:48 PM
D papers aren�t read to you. They are served to you, usually by a sheriff. They are filed by a lawyer.

All she�s doing right now is bluffing.

If she talks divorce, very calmly and matter of factly say, �I will not talk divorce. I will only talk marriage.�

If she presses, again, very calmly tell her, �Divorce is a path you don�t want to go down. I will not make it easy, I will fight for custody, I will file on grounds of adultery, and I will keep as much of our stuff as possible. We will not be friends in any way if we go down that path. I would much rather save our marriage.�

You see, my WW had it the other way on me. She kept telling me that the only way we would have any chance of being together again was if we amicably divorced, had time apart to �heal�, and then re-engaged. She went so far as to tell me that she had so much faith we�d be back together that she was going to leave the Christmas stuff with me.

This empty promise held me hostage. Anytime I resisted, she would scream and yell that that things would then be ugly and that there would be no chance we could save things. I would then back down.

The reality is that there is no such thing as an amicable divorce. Telling yourself that as a BS or a BH is simply living a fantasy.

So don�t let her dictate anything and know that she�s bluffing.

Everything she�s doing is normal crazyness of a wayward. Don�t react to it. Calmly tell her that if she continues this behavior in front of the children that you�ll have to call the police.

I very strongly recommend you record her during these rants. The recording can help protect you when she resorts to false claims of abuse.

Hold your ground. You�re dealing with a bully and she�s much more afraid and uncertain than she lets on.
Posted By: rpg Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/17/10 08:04 AM
She claims that she only slept with a guy once because she was drunk now. That's also what she tells everyone else. She says I accused the wrong guy and that there really is no affair. Her story contradicts what she said before and what my kids are telling me. She stays out all night and says she won't do anything around the house while I'm there. Whenever she is around she'll do anything to keep me from trying to talk to her.
I was allowes to go to her counseling appt. I was told that my exposure to all her friends on FB was very wrong by the counselor and kind of equated it to her one night stand.
I've seen those parts of the exorcist. It's very scary to see that kind of mockery and laughing in real life.
She said she'll file for D on Monday.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/17/10 01:36 PM
Where is she going all night? With who? Document, document, document. And I'd tell off your counselor and pass Dr. Harley's exposure explanation off to her. Maybe the counselor is just woefully ignorant instead of stupid.

If she still is contacting OM, I'd go full force ramping up exposure and pressure on him to get him to dump your WW. If there is no affair, there is no reason to leave, so I'm sure there still is an active affair if she will file for D. Don't give up so easily. Keep up with plan A and don't let her mood swings deter you. Also, start looking for a good bulldog attorney that will fight her on custody and help you with a plan if she does go through with D.
Posted By: helpthelostdads Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/17/10 02:07 PM
I had a counselor tell me to go along with everything my WW was telling me to do. He told me to follow her plan and that this was some sort of journey she needed to take and was confident she'd want to return to the marriage eventually.

He couldn't have been more wrong and he had his head up his butt. You've made progress. Exposure brought the affair to light.

She can't hide it anymore.

Explain the consequences of divorce to her and stick to them.
Posted By: rpg Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/20/10 06:05 AM
She's avoiding every attempt to talk to her. Constantly gone. Just comes home to take a bath and then either back to the theater or a friend's place to spend the night.
The kids are picking who they want to stay with already. They are asking her to give me a hug which she won't. Both touching and chilling at the same time.


From the few words we exchange, I'm left wondering how any person can be this cold.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/20/10 02:17 PM
She had to convince herself that you are evil to justify her PA so it's no problem to avoid an evil person.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/20/10 03:49 PM
Originally Posted by rpg
She's avoiding every attempt to talk to her. Constantly gone. Just comes home to take a bath and then either back to the theater or a friend's place to spend the night.
The kids are picking who they want to stay with already. They are asking her to give me a hug which she won't. Both touching and chilling at the same time.


From the few words we exchange, I'm left wondering how any person can be this cold.

Just keep trying to initiate light conversation and document how she has been abandoning the children. Keep a journal, keep it safe, and get with a lawyer who will help you build a case for custody if it comes to that. She's pretty much signing away the children and house to you right now.
Posted By: rpg Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/20/10 03:56 PM
Problem with me getting full custody of the kids is that I'm in the army.
The way she's acting right now I have very little confidence in her ability to take care of the kids after a divorce. But I don't want the kids to be taken away either. This sucks all the way around.

She said she'll go see a lawyer to file today.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/20/10 04:18 PM
She's still actively in the affair. IF she files for divorce, it's only to continue her relationship w/ OM since you have made it clear that will no longer allowed if you remain married.

As for the army, is there any way you can get out because of what is currently going on and transition to a civilian job? If you could show stability, you are currently looking very good for at least primary custody. However, if your WW does see a lawyer, she'll likely be told to spend the night at home from now on. What state do you live in? This could play a key role in the divorce as far as her affair goes.
Posted By: rpg Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/20/10 05:07 PM
My lawyer advised me that the army is the best thing I got going for me. The army didn't cause her to have an affair and i have a secure job with guaranteed retirement. She'll of course try to leech off of that retirement.
Last night she said that if I won't sign the papers she'll ask for all our IRAs and 401k (army equivalent) to be cashed out and split up.

She's filing in Idaho.
Posted By: rpg Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/23/10 03:39 AM
So, I think the EA never stopped.
All attempts at trying to talk sense are met with 'I'm done'.
She has her lawyer consultation tomorrow.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/23/10 04:19 AM
Of course it never stopped. You need to turn the heat up on OM.
Posted By: helpthelostdads Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/23/10 04:32 AM
See if you can get her to agree to relinquish any claims beyond what is written in your D agreement. You may be able to get her to voluntarily sign away her claims to your retirement.
Posted By: rpg Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/24/10 12:23 AM
A case worker showed up yesterday for a surprise follow up visit to the house.
WW had A case with CPS for unsafe living conditions after the cops were called because our youngest was found alone in a store parking lot before that was dismissed but required follow on visits by a case worker.
Case worker will be back Monday. Since WW isn't doing anything around the house, should I just let it deteriorate over the weekend for the visit? It may repen the case?
WW also started smoking in the master bathroom. The smoke is definitely starting to get into the walls. She used to only occasionally smoke a cigarette when stressed out. Now it's up to half a pack a day at times.
She went to see her lawyer today and hasn't returned yet. 6 hours later.
Posted By: rpg Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/25/10 02:20 AM
WW is trying to find a way to get $2700 to pay the lawyer to start filing.
She got $500 so far from Christmas presents. frown
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/25/10 04:22 AM
You need to start carrying around a digital voice recorder. She's starting to make up abuse claims to get you out of the house. I would get a lawyer of your own. I would also secure the finances so she can't get to them.
Posted By: rpg Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/31/10 01:17 AM
She filed for divorce 28 December.
Should I still tell her I love her and that I don't want a divorce? I do.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/31/10 01:19 AM
Originally Posted by rpg
She filed for divorce 28 December.
Should I still tell her I love her and that I don't want a divorce? I do.
Have you confirmed this? Have you been served? Contacted by her attorney? How do you know this?

Tell her that you love her and will not participate in a divorce. Tell her that there is no way you will accept a divorce. Do you have an attorney?
Posted By: rpg Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/31/10 01:22 AM
Yes, I have an attorney.
I have not been served. My attorney had me sign the service acknowledgment.
I don't think I can deny her a divorce once filed, can I?
Once filed, if I don't respond, it becomes default and she gets everything.
I can drag it out...
Posted By: clark_kent Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/31/10 01:23 AM
What are you in? Plan A, Plan B, Plan D, or Plan FU?

IDK what you are looking for here.

Has exposure been done?
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/31/10 01:24 AM
Originally Posted by rpg
Yes, I have an attorney.
I have not been served. My attorney had me sign the service acknowledgment.
I don't think I can deny her a divorce once filed, can I?
Once filed, if I don't respond, it becomes default and she gets everything.
I can drag it out...
What state are you in? What does your attorney say?
Posted By: rpg Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/31/10 01:27 AM
Originally Posted by clark_kent
What are you in? Plan A, Plan B, Plan D, or Plan FU?

IDK what you are looking for here.

Has exposure been done?

I'm in Plan A. With me in Germany and her in Idaho. Took leave for Christmas, but she wouldn't talk to me.

Exposure was done, she says she's not seeing anyone.

I'm looking for something I can tell her to make her stop the divorce. Something I can do to stop the divorce. Find out the point at which I'm supposed to give up on the marriage so I know when I reach it or if I can prevent from getting there.
Posted By: rpg Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/31/10 01:29 AM
Originally Posted by maritalbliss
What state are you in? What does your attorney say?

She filed in Idaho. I don't have a state since I'm stationed overseas.

Attorney is looking at the filed case and trying to figure out property division/visitation and debt stuff.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/31/10 01:38 AM
Originally Posted by rpg
She filed in Idaho. I don't have a state since I'm stationed overseas.

Attorney is looking at the filed case and trying to figure out property division/visitation and debt stuff.
Have you informed your attorney that you wish to contest this divorce?
Posted By: clark_kent Re: Can it be safed? WW - 12/31/10 01:39 AM
Originally Posted by maritalbliss
Tell her that you love her and will not participate in a divorce. Tell her that there is no way you will accept a divorce.

Follow @marital advice.

How are you able to meet her ENs?

Are you willing to give up your military career for WS?

If you get custody would you be able to get a hardship discharge?

@RPG - don't forget that you have choices. You just need to make them.
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