Just wondering if any other WS's out there did their own exposure (as I did). I was just reading the thread in Marriage Builders 101 where a BS was lamenting that her BS filed for divorce in response to the exposure. Everyone quickly corrected her that divorce is never in reponse to exposure--if he filed for divorce, he was always going to whether exposed or not.

I was giving that some thought as the wayward spouse and not sure I agree. I exposed myself willingly to all, but had I not exposed myself and still held true to my NC agreement 100% from the beginning and my husband exposed me--I am not sure I would have gotten over that. We are working things out now after my self-exposure, but I am not sure I'd have been interested in working things out had he exposed me. Any one else have thoughts?

Anger over exposure is a sign of the fog, though. When the fog rolls off, waywards usually do see the value of exposure. If a wayward gets divorced over exposure, what is really happening is that they are still fogged out. And because of that, the marriage was not going to make it anyway.

A recovered WS does not resent exposure. Rather they apologize for putting their victims in that spot in the first place.

In the case of a WS who has ended her affair and agreed to NC, the affair should be exposed to the close family and children together. This is done for a couple of reasons. So the BS can receive support from the family and so that the family can hold the WS accountable.

If a WS insisted on keeping his affair a secret, without a really good reason, I would be very dubious about his sincerity.


A great article on this subject is here: When Should An Affair Be Exposed?

Funny, Melody, I was just reading that article while you were responding to my post. See, I did the exposure myself and I am not resentful of it, but everyone here has made it clear that I am not "recovered" yet (I agree). I honestly do think that my husband had gone to great lengths to expose immediately, I would have probably stayed in the fog (maybe for the rest of my life) and divorced him. I know that Dr. Harley recommends exposure as a loving way to promote both parties best interest in ending the affair, but what if the affair can genuinely and honestly end without exposure? I know it's the exception to the rule, but some people are probably capable of it. In fact, when I did my own exposure, I wasn't doing it as a way of holding myself accountable is the designated BS's intent. I did it more as a punishment and vengeance for myself, honestly. It almost seems like a sort of vengeful thing for a BS to do, especially of the WS can and does end the affair without it. I am just thinking out loud and glad someone is around with whom I can chat.

My wife was furious that I exposed the affair to our children and close family, and the OM wife. But her close family would call her repeatedly and tell her she was making unhealthy decisions.
If it were kept secret, I dont know what would have happened. The idea of exposure is to shine light on the darkness. My wife thought OM was the greatest man alive, her family viewed him a felon drug addict.
If I had exposed it earlier, while it was still an emotional affair, perhaps it may have ended before it became sexual.
But I thought MB Forum was too tough, and did not follow their recommendations at first.

Well, that wouldnt have washed with me and I would have said 'Go, then'. It would be like trying to recover as an alcoholic in secret. You have to get up there and say it publicly. Ask for help, repent to ALL the people you have hurt. Usually entire families and circles of friends are affected, not just the BS. So well done you for doing that. I respect and admire the honesty and bravery that must have taken.

I would however say that the BS is the person who SHOULD expose. The WS is usually either still addicted or a bit fogged and cannot do it properly. Plus the person who needs support most is the BS. It makes sense for them to be the ones to ask for it.

There will be people who will have seen 'body language' or something suspect between the APs, who are whispering rumours. There will also be people with no idea who dont understand why OW and WH cant be invited to the same party etc....

Exposure is a must, it lets everyone know you are both fighting for your marriage and why. The help of others is usually vital. It's a stage that cant be skipped, regardless of NC being kept religiously.

I will say I am concerned at your implication that exposure is akin to puishment? Not at all. It is FOR the marriage, not AGAINST the WS.. So who could possibly say they dont want to work it out after such a caring battle is fought for an endangered marriage? A marriage the BS could easily have just chosen to walk away from?

That is just the kind of husband I want. Don't you?

Don't know your stand on the bible .. but here is a few biblical reasons for exposure.

Ephesians 5:11 says have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.



John 3:20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.


1 Timothy 5:20 Those who sin are to be rebuked publicly, so that the others may take warning.

MNG

I do think exposure is important, and I'm glad it's done in our marriage/affair situation. I guess I think it's good for the WS/BS to do it together if possible, but you're right it's good for the BS to be there because they need support. My BS was with me for most of my exposure, but not all. Anyhow, everyone supports him wholeheartedly now and no one really supports me, but that's ok. Even though I am trying to work on myself and our future I mostly am getting a lot of grief from everyone about how horrible I am, how could I do that, what a vile, wicked thing it was--all of which...I know...I know. It know it deeply and it's actually driven me to the verge of suicide and back several times already.

I do think exposure is probably necessary for most affairs to end, but I am not sure mine would have. The way I see it--everyone would have hated me if I continued on with my affair--and everyone still hates me although I vowed to stop it. What difference does it really make to me? I know that for my husband--exposure is good though, which was a good reason for us to do it.

Also, I do know that alcoholics can and have recovered "privately," much more than you think, actually. It doesn't work for most people, but for some it does.

Well .. with exposure and your husband standing by you supporintg the recovery of your marriage (if thats what he wants) then you get to find out who your TRUE and NON TOXIC friends/family really are.

MNG

Just ask yourself WHY you would be angry about exposure of an affair? Would you be angry and threaten to divorce your husband if he "exposed" that you won a Nobel Prize? Why not? It is because you are embarrassed about YOUR behavior. And you should be embarrassed about bad behavior. But the solution to being embarrassed is not to manipulate and punish others into hiding your crimes, but to stop committing the crimes.

You only have yourself to blame for your embarrassment. So anger is misdirected when you blame others, because the person responsible for the embarrassment is the person in the mirror. If the WS had not been acting in an embarrassing, despicable way, there would be nothing to be embarrassed about. So blaming others for your embarrassment is clearly a sign of the fog because it indicates the WS has not taken responsibilty for her own bad behavior and is, instead blaming others.

Just think how much more motivated you would be to change your behavior if you ARE suffering embarrassment over your actions? I know it would motivate me!


But its not all about you. And it is not solely about ending an affair. One of the main reasons for exposure is to get support for the BS and the children from family, friends, and clergy. They are the victims, so their best interest comes first. If the WS doesn't like it, then tough.



Again, anger over exposure is a sign of the fog. That is because wild horses could not stop a sincere wayward from reconciling. That attitude indicates a lack of sincerity. Exposure does not stop a sincere wayward from reconciling.

Other reasons for exposure are to wake the WS up from the fog. The more sunshine that is shone on the affair, the better the recovery. It is like chemotherapy to cancer. And of course, the more people who know, the more to hold you accountable. That is a good thing, not a bad thing!

Alcoholics make sure their friends and family know so they can hold them accountable and help them stay sober. Secrecy about alcoholism can be a disaster. My whole family knows, my friends know, my boss knows.

Why would I care if they all know? I am safer if they all know and that is what counts.

I am just trying to offer a slightly dissenting opinion here as the wayward spouse. I do understand that the exposure is intended to be the best for everyone, but I don't think it's always the best thing for the wayward spouse (especially when they are apparently surrounded by only toxic people).

By possibly divorcing my husband, it would NOT be because I blamed him or the exposure for my bad behavior, it would be because I felt he was needlessly cruel to humiliate me further when I was already wishing myself dead. When a spouse is genuinely repentant, further humiliating them just seems like cruel revenge.

Again, I state, I agree that most people do not repent without exposure and all that. I am just saying, if my spouse exposed me when it wasn't necessary for me, I might not be able to get over him violating my trust and throwing me under the bus when I was already suffering so much. Yes, I deserve it, yes it will probably help him and everyone else cope, but no, it is not going to make me at all motivated to work on my marriage with the man who was willing to stand me in the town square bearing the Scarlet A the minute he suspected something was amiss.

I understand he is hurting more than I ever will. I understand that I deserve justice and more humiliation than he could ever bring me. I am just saying, his showing of mercy--his merciful, graceful, undeserved, reluctance to expose me was part of the reason I realized I adored him so much and wanted to work things out with him.

Just another opinion. And I still got exposed, but I am not bitter at him for doing it to me because I did it myself.

Relief comes from stopping the bad behavior and making amends. The only time in my life I ever felt suicidal was when I was being bad. My guilt drove me to be good, but being bad drove me into the depths of hell. I couldn't stand the pain. Would you not agree that an affair is a vile, wicked thing to do? I understand what it feels like to feel embarrassed, ashamed, humiliated to my core. But you should not fight this, you should embrace it. Guilt is your friend. It is telling you that you have violated your conscience. That is a good thing, because now you know you cannot get away with crossing that line again. It is your warning system.

So how do you dig yourself out? By making amends and behaving properly. You stop feeling sorry for yourself and CHANGE yourself into a person you can respect. A person who does not set off those red alarms coming from your conscience. You render aide to your victim and make this right.

Ok, here's where I have to parse and select my words VERY carefully, because I'd like to close out 2011 without having them (What? Again?) being zapped into non-existence for my heresy!

Exposure's greatest utility and strength is in "blowing up" ongoing affairs, resistent thusfar to the uneducated, ineffective beggings and pleadings of BSs. Correctly done, exposure leaves the WS finds nowhere to hide, no support, no solace, and no understanding. In an instant, not only does the target-WS stand naked and flawed before all acquaintances, but the AP, the "soul-mate" for whom the marriage was betrayed, is totally consumed with repairing things on his end, so is of no help whatsoever.

The case may be made that "post-affair" exposure might be considered a legitimate part of the JC package that is the BS's right. I would aver that this was, in effect, the intention of your self-exposure action. I laud you for this initiative, and certainly hope your BH understands the depth of commitment it demonstrates.

There ARE proponents of unilateral BS employment of "exposure as a tool to recovery", even after the affair is dead and buried. From personal experience, I would not be one of them. I never exposed my bride's transgressions to either of our families, nor to her co-workers, nor......Well you get the idea. Why did I not? Because I knew her, and I knew what that added level of humiliation would have done to her, already a basket-case of shame. ("Hey, you've got a broken leg? Here, let me break your crutch! Now, let's go for a walk together!") It would not be that her resentment of ME would have been the issue, it would have been unnecessary damage to her that would have been...tragic. I was not in need of seeing her suffer any more.

As for "Well, he would have filed anyway.....", sorry, that's not saleable to this buyer, either. Every action we take is fraught with consequences, some predictable, some surprising. Writing off a reaction immediately following a previous action as unrelated, or "inevitable, anyway" is simplistic and more tied to a search for absolution, than to hard cause-effect analysis.

(As an aside, for our convenience, the initiating query on this thread could have been included as a branch in your main thread.)

You get to perpetrate a great fraud against your husband and then dictate the terms of ending it?

Id love to hear from your husband.

It's a little ridiculous to talk about cruelty when you have just inflicted an extremely cruel act on your own spouse. It is not "cruel" to expose truth. It is "cruel" to have an affair.

And you should feel humiliated about having an affair. That is not your husbands fault. That is your fault for behaving badly.

If you were serious about making amends and reconciling with your husband, nothing would stop you. Not exposure, not nothing.

Thank you NeverGuessed, I guess I am glad to see that I don't face 100% opposition here. It's just my opinion and I definitely still see the value of exposure in most cases. Your example of the breaking the leg and crutch then going walking resonates deeply with me and that's just where I feel I'd have been if my BS exposed.

Also, I intentionally didn't make this a branch of my other thread because I wanted to ask the question in a more general sense and not particular to my situation. Nothing about my particular situation with the email EA makes the self-exposure relevant. The self-exposure or non-exposure could be implemented in any case that the spouses (especially BS) thought it was the best thing.

If anyone is interested in my unique details, I will add that my BS was AGAINST exposure and only went through with it at my insistence. Yet now he is not sure he wants to save our marriage. Does anyone think he'd be more likely to take me back if he had gotten that golden chance to expose me against my will and add insult to injury? Maybe I did the wrong thing by exposing myself and should have left it for him.

I disagree with this 100%. A wayward spouse who is truly committed to recovery will not allow exposure or anything else to get in their way. Anger over exposure is a direct result of the FOG, because it stems from embarrassment over their OWN actions. That is not the fault of the exposer, that is the fault of the CHEATER, because that embarrassment results from his behavior. So no, exposure does not "cause" divorce. It comes from resentment fueled by the fog.

In my situation, if my H would have objected to my exposure, I would not have taken him back. Any waywards who are "angry" or "bitter" about exposure need to carefully consider that your BS might not take YOU back with that kind of attitude.

What does that have to do with his uncertainty about saving the marriage? I am not following your reasoning. And how does exposing add "insult to injury?"

See, I think this is your problem. You view exposure as a bad thing, when it it not. Exposure is a good thing. People are safer when others know, to themselves and others. So it is not an "insult," it is only shining the light on truth.

Dear friends and family,

I am writing you this message because you are an important person in the lives of Joe and I. As some of you know, Joe has recently asked me for a divorce, which has shattered my heart. To my shock, I have discovered that the reason is because he has been carrying on an affair with a woman who resides on XXX estate. The purpose of the separation is so that he can carry on his affair without my interference. Joe has tried to claim that his affair began AFTER I left for Australia, but this is not true. [as if that justified his adultery, we are still married]

As our friends, I am asking that you use your influence with Joe to persuade him to end his affair and try to work on our marriage. Our marriage can be salvaged if he would only end the affair. Please support him in doing the right thing. Please support our marriage.

I would so appreciate your support and prayers.

Warmest regards,


********************
_________________________
JustUss

Administrator/Moderator




AFD
From the notable posts exposure examples


What part of this is cruel, insulting and vindictive?

nESRE

More or less "cruel" than this:

written to a WH: here

here

How to Survive Infidelity

From "Defending Traditional Marriage" pg 143:

No no no.

Toxic people would tell you you were doing the right thing, keep on having affairs!

Toxic people would keep their 'nose out of others' affairs' and laugh while you made a fool of yourself.

From what you have said, people view your adultery as bad and want you to work on your marriage. They express disgust, which has had a powerful effect on your motivation to win approval.

I dont think of that as toxic, I think of it as tough. I am sure it is powerfully unpleasant, but so are sit ups when you want great abs. No pain no gain.

Guilt IS your friend and those who provoke your guilt are the TRUEST friends.

That is not to say you should put up with needless abuse when you have repented and agree to work on the marriage. But it sounds as though you are just talking about the general humiliation of people's normal reactions to exposure.

And you cannot expect people to admire, trust and respect you again before you put the work in.

But as you agreed to expose yourself, I am hoping you see this as a challenge, not a punishment.



Exposure is a fight for the marriage and he did not expose because he is too hurt to fight.

Encouraging people to hold you accountable and to support him will help. He will know no one is keeping secrets for you or whispering about your marriage. Surround yourself with true, honest, frank friends who will keep you in line and his spirits up. People who will tell him they would not stand for it and would rat you out. Dont hang out with any toxic 'whatever makes you happy' types.

Sounds like you had your cake and you want to eat it too, if you will.

You sound a bit too in control of this situation when its your husband who was just bamboozled.

You are saying to your husband, in essence, 'honey, I know I screwed up beyond belief but dont be too mad, I fess'd up and told some people so if you leave me, its on you'.

Why is this?
Do you think a betrayed husband (or wife) ought to suffer adultery in silence?

Here's the thing.
The adultery & lies have ruined any faith/trust the betrayed has that their spouse is (right then) upstanding and truthful.

What appears vengeful to the guilty is actually protection and insurance for the injured.

*** THIS LINK *** is my exposure story.

.... some of it we did together .....

BINGO!

Hi....looks like you're talking about my thread in the OP.

Well, it was never my intention to make WH feel humiliated or for me to be needlessly cruel...or as my WH put it, to get revenge. It was about doing the right thing and also taking a necessary step in an attempt to save my marriage. I had and still have the very strong desire that my WH turn around, see the error of his ways and become a better man for himself, with or without me.

Oh...btw, WH was NOT repentant. AT ALL. I (we are military) followed chain of command and he disobeyed direct orders TWICE regarding OW. Now, he has a reduction in rank and we are going through a D. Maybe he feels he cannot let this exposure go, but hey....he had his chances.

OW is a mess...she is a shoddy person and SHE NEEDED to be exposed. Trust me on this one.

Double bingo!!!!

My wife willingly confessed to the kids, and her parents. Right after Dday. She was never angry over it. In fact I think she was relieved.

I think there are two types, the ones who were wanting to actively stay in the A and the ones who were not happy in the A and this makes a difference with exposure. I agree with Mel's assessment though that even the resentful often see the benefit of it after the fog lifts.

CV

...actually protection and insurance for the injured.

...and legitimately is to be bundled into the JC package, as I said, as in, "You broke our contract, and as JUST COMPENSATION for my agreeing NOT to invoke the bail-out option, I will insist on the "protection and insurance" of revealing to our segment of the world what you did."

Some BSs might demand this; some might not. Just as there are risks to the BS in NOT demanding it, there are other risks to the BS with a recalcitrant spouse in demanding it. Well, folks welcome to the spikey world of adulthood, where we have to take responsibility for the results of own actions:

• NG did not expose, with a positive result.
• ML (and PB?) did expose, with a positive result.
• The unnamed BW did expose, with a negative result.
• I'm sure there have been BSs who did not expose, with a negative result.

The varying results depend on uncountable variables, but I'll agree with the others here that it is the balance of

• the commitment to repair/recovery on the part of the WS, versus
• the self-image/internal stature of the WS

that would be the key measurement in how the post-exposure situation will be resolved.

When all is said and done, a WS finally coming back to the marriage, fully and unconditionally, is going to do so as a wreck, on his/her knees. A still-standing WS, just ending an affair, then getting exposed unilaterally by the BS, is obviously the most likely to react badly with an "I'm outta here!" If the BS then is satisfied by the "Well, he would have inevitably.....", then what status does NG have to say, "Yeah, but......"

Interesting thought process you have.

BTW, The opinion you offer is NOT a dissenting opinion.
I have NEVER met a wayward that thinks exposure is a good thing.
Quite the contrary, ALL waywards, including myself, while I was wayward, HATE exposure....






You are discussing two different people here.

A wayward spouse, by default, has NO remorse and is NOT capable of repentance either.

A FORMER wayward spouse would have no fear of facing exposure due to the humility that accompanies genuine remorse.

Huge difference in the two.





Again, your trying to discuss two different people as one.




Your husband made a choice not to expose, but I would suggest it was more out of embarrassment and maybe some fear, not out of mercy. His choice had nothing to do with you, it was about him and what he wanted.

See, my wife exposed my adultery and I adore her for being brave enough to FIGHT for our marriage while I was a whacked out wayward hell bent on destroying the same.


As a FORMER wayward I'm forever grateful to my wife for all she did to save our marriage....

Hang in there AFD, you'll see the whole picture with time. You did well going back and being honest with your family and friends about all your deception and lies....

Wow. This is about the foggiest thing I've read in long time. Violating YOUR trust? What about your BH's trust? He didn't get a choice when you broke HIS trust now did he?

Exposure done properly (and not for vengeance or revenge) HELPS save marriages. We've seen it 100s of times. Dr. Harley has studied it for years. Self-exposure serves who? You? Your BH? IMO, self-exposure allows the WS (read: you) the opportunity to spin things to your advantage. You say everyone is supporting him and not you so much. Did you expect them to pat you on the back and tell you "Way to go girl!" No. If they are true friends who really care about you, they are going to feel betrayed too, but they'll be willing to hold you accountable.

It won't always be this way. You can earn favor and trust back with your actions, not just words.

It has been my own observation here after 10 years that in the marriages where exposure to the family has taken place, there is a much better recovery. There are various reasons, among them are the support to the marriage from the family, especially to the BS. Another is the effect exposure has by shining the light on the affair; it has the effect of waking up the WS. In the marriages where there was no exposure, the WS's tend to be foggy and entitled. It takes much longer to recover.

But the key measurement is Dr Harley's experience. He has been doing this for 40 years and what is his policy? Keeping in mind that he has saved hundreds of marriages and we have saved *ONE*:



We are here, after all, to learn about Dr Harley's opinions, not our own personal philosophies. I don't know about you, but I am here because I screwed up my marriage. I don't know how to save a marriage. And I don't think you got here because you were singing too loud in church.


I am presuming you meant to say the "BS" here and just mistyped. IT is the "BS" who is the wreck, of course. They have been savaged, brought to their knees - without their permission - very much akin to a rape, physical assualt or the death of a child. If the WS suffers in the commission of that crime, it was self wrought and deserved suffering. There are consequences for cruelty to others, after all. Humilation and embarrassment is one of them.

I've seen too many marriages end before the affairs ended because exposure never was done.

I've seen too many affairs restart because exposure never happened.

I've seen too many 2nd, 3rd, etc, affairs happen through the years of the marraige because exposure never happened.

So when a WS comes here and say's they would of never stayed if they were exposed I say there is a WS that will be wayward again.

The BS did nothing wrong or to be mad at. All the BS did was tell the truth.

If the WS wants to be mad then they just have to look at the one that decided to have an affair and be mad at him/her.

Road,

Could you please repost this on TeEstimo's thread? This is very timely.

CV

Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.
John 3:20-21.

I read through the whole thread again and I guess I see where you all would get that, though it is not at all what I meant to say. I know that it's all on me. I accept responsibility, regardless of who exposed what and whether or not he wants to stay with me---that's all on me.

Right. Got it.

We don't care how you got here to MB.
We want your marriage to be a roaring success.
Please, take the time to read a lot of different threads.


Do you have any particular MB based questions?

Welcome to Marriage Builders !

Waa waa, exposure is mean, cruel and awful! I feel SO BAD (now that I've been caught) and that would only hurt me more! And if he hurts me that's HIS VENGEANCE! See, he's awful!!!

Suck it up. YOU stabbed him and now you are complaining about the blood that got on your hands.

TOO DARN BAD!

This is YOUR fault! And it is YOUR responsibility to clean this mess up! /2x4

Listen to MelodyLane and the others. They want to help you!

[video:youtube][/video]

Infidelity: What every couple should know.


What every MB forum poster should watch.

My husband went berserk when I exposed his affair (I called it an EA in my letter but I did not know they had kissed by then) he basically had me add a follow up addendum regarding my own EA. It really sucked, took just as long as exposing his cause FB has to be done individually. I was not pleased and unwilling to do it but fair is fair...we were both in affairs.

Well, it sure sounds like a great plan when the WS agrees to end the A, but more often than not, they take the A underground *OR* they really do try to end it but NC really doesn't ever get implemented.

We see that scenario here on the boards again and again and again....

x2. This is pretty foggy.

allfalldown, could you tell us how long you have had NC implemented for?

All we want to say afd, is that exposure is like a cleaning crew after the mess of an affair - it shines the light of the truth onto the problem so you have a marriage with no more secrets, lies and hidden corners. It's a dose of medicine that might not taste good, but needs to be adminstered - either self administered by the wayward or by the wounded party.

You DO still sound a bit foggy, but that's what we are here for - to 2x4 the fog away.

It sounds like you are struggling quite a lot with guilt - but as we have said, that guilt is your friend. There are many former waywards who can tell you that guilt was their way out of hell.

Those stings of your conscience are growing pains.
Good luck! Keep fighting!

While my husband was foggy, he was quite angry about exposure. He said I violated his trust, I was controlling him, blah blah blah.

When he got out of the fog- he told me he was proud of me for standing up and fighting for our marriage and family in a way he did not have the strength to at the time.

So, yeah, OP? You're too foggy at this point to have a profound insight.

The WS should ONLY "self-expose" under observation of, and with direction from, their BS.

Why? Because a foggy WS is going to act as a super-colon and unload a large load of crap.

That's right, wayward fog causes an anatomical switch of rectum and mouth, causing all things coming out of a foggy waywards mouth to smell distinctly like feces... Because it is.

"Our marriage was going bad, and..."

"Blah blah blah, I'm not a bad person for shagging in an alley behind a dumpster, despite the fact I'm 40, married, and have 3 kids at home..."

All wayward self exposure does is allow a selfish, evil, self-centered liar set the stage with crap.