My spouse is a withdrawn person. It is not in his nature to hug me, or kiss me, or seek me out for conversation when we are in the house together, although he will respond positively to such overtures on my part. He rarely approaches me to plan anything together (like a date or a romantic weekend.) He doesn't like to do things together, such as chores, gardening, or cooking, although he frequently will do these things independently. He never indicates that he finds me attractive or sexy, or that he would like to make love, unless I pointedly ask him, in which case he responds affirmatively. He almost always remembers holidays and my birthday with thoughtful little cards and gifts, but he pretty much ignores me around the house.
He doesn't seem to be very sensitive to things which are important to me, although he is, in general, a sensitive and perceptive person. We have only had sex about once in the past year, although neither of us is infirm or unattractive, (and he is remarkably fit, for a man 50 years old, still playing very active sports like soccer and basketball.)
We get along pretty well, although, I feel like I always have to adapt to his preferences and try to enjoy what he is doing, rather than the other way around. I don't feel like he makes any effort to be a part of "my world," and worse, that he has no desire to do so.
He is good-natured, an excellent father, and an admirable man, but I feel like his umbrella or his golf bag, rather than his partner. I don't mean that I feel used. I feel more like I am something that is serviceable for its appointed task (in my case, mothering his children, filling the role of wife) but other than that, he doesn't want, need or use it very often, and certainly doesn't think about connecting with it. He doesn't cherish his umbrella, or seek to delight it. It is just there. That's how I feel.
It has been this way for a long time. At first I was mad and resentful, then hurt, then unfaithful, then guilty and over-sexed with him, (then I stopped the affair), then hurt and resentful again, and now we are just like college roommates who live together, but don't appear to have an emotional connection, or even much of a friendship, although we are not unfriendly. We mostly get along, except when I get hormonal and weepy. I feel very lonely. Even though we have a big family and lots of friends, I feel very alone and starved for affection.
I feel like I would rather get a divorce than tell him about the affair I had. He already seems not to like me, and I have a reputation for honesty with him. I would hate for him to see me in a worse light.
I don't want a divorce. I believe there are spiritual lessons to be learned from staying married. I love him. I don't care if he did have an affair, and I don't care if he made me unhappy in the past, I just want to go on from here and be happy.
Is this possible? Is there some clue that I am missing?
Please respond. Sometimes people outside the situation can see things much more clearly.
I keep trying to work on myself, like all the books say, but I'm not making any progress. I just get angry that I am the one doing this work, when I feel neglected.
Luro, please start your own thread. We'll be happy to help you once you've done that.
Let us know if you aren't sure how to do that.
My spouse is a withdrawn person. It is not in his nature to hug me, or kiss me, or seek me out for conversation when we are in the house together, although he will respond positively to such overtures on my part. He rarely approaches me to plan anything together (like a date or a romantic weekend.) He doesn't like to do things together, such as chores, gardening, or cooking, although he frequently will do these things independently. He never indicates that he finds me attractive or sexy, or that he would like to make love, unless I pointedly ask him, in which case he responds affirmatively. He almost always remembers holidays and my birthday with thoughtful little cards and gifts, but he pretty much ignores me around the house.
He doesn't seem to be very sensitive to things which are important to me, although he is, in general, a sensitive and perceptive person. We have only had sex about once in the past year, although neither of us is infirm or unattractive, (and he is remarkably fit, for a man 50 years old, still playing very active sports like soccer and basketball.)
We get along pretty well, although, I feel like I always have to adapt to his preferences and try to enjoy what he is doing, rather than the other way around. I don't feel like he makes any effort to be a part of "my world," and worse, that he has no desire to do so.
He is good-natured, an excellent father, and an admirable man, but I feel like his umbrella or his golf bag, rather than his partner. I don't mean that I feel used. I feel more like I am something that is serviceable for its appointed task (in my case, mothering his children, filling the role of wife) but other than that, he doesn't want, need or use it very often, and certainly doesn't think about connecting with it. He doesn't cherish his umbrella, or seek to delight it. It is just there. That's how I feel.
It has been this way for a long time. At first I was mad and resentful, then hurt, then unfaithful, then guilty and over-sexed with him, (then I stopped the affair), then hurt and resentful again, and now we are just like college roommates who live together, but don't appear to have an emotional connection, or even much of a friendship, although we are not unfriendly. We mostly get along, except when I get hormonal and weepy. I feel very lonely. Even though we have a big family and lots of friends, I feel very alone and starved for affection.
I feel like I would rather get a divorce than tell him about the affair I had. He already seems not to like me, and I have a reputation for honesty with him. I would hate for him to see me in a worse light.
I don't want a divorce. I believe there are spiritual lessons to be learned from staying married. I love him. I don't care if he did have an affair, and I don't care if he made me unhappy in the past, I just want to go on from here and be happy.
Is this possible? Is there some clue that I am missing?
Please respond. Sometimes people outside the situation can see things much more clearly.
I keep trying to work on myself, like all the books say, but I'm not making any progress. I just get angry that I am the one doing this work, when I feel neglected.
Welcome yo MB.
So when are you telling your BH about your affair?
The Harleys having a saying "there may be reasons for affairs but never excuses".
Your post has many excuses. Do you have the book SAA?
Luro, welcome to MarriageBuilders.
I'm a guy who had an affair. Thought you'd be interested in my two cents. Sometimes I get a little sarcastic before my morning coffee, so please don't take any of it personally; but this business of improving a marriage requires a thick skin & a willingness, as you say, to step outside one's self, to laugh at ourselves when we catch ourselves trying to twist logic to suit ourselves, and to take some cold, hard looks at what we see in the mirror sometimes....I feel like I would rather get a divorce than tell him about the affair I had. He already seems not to like me, and I have a reputation for honesty with him.
...I believe there are spiritual lessons to be learned from staying married.
...I don't care if he did have an affair, and I don't care if he made me unhappy in the past, I just want to go on from here and be happy.
...Sometimes people outside the situation can see things much more clearly.
...I keep trying to work on myself, like all the books say, but I'm not making any progress.
...I just get angry that I am the one doing this work, when I feel neglected.
It actually sounds like you've got a lot to work with. And at some point, yes, your husband will need to get on-board about meeting your needs, or even caring enough to learn what they are. But you can't save a marriage with one foot in and one foot out. You need to lay all your cards on the table, and offer to be "all-in", and then show that you're all-in via your actions.
Have you considered counseling with the Harleys?
...At first I was mad and resentful, then hurt, then unfaithful, then guilty and over-sexed with him, (then I stopped the affair), then hurt and resentful again, and now we are just like college roommates who live together, but don't appear to have an emotional connection, or even much of a friendship, although we are not unfriendly.
Luro, you don't have an emotional connection because you are fundamentally dishonest with your husband.
You know, I thought I could rebuild my marriage after my infidelity without telling my BH the whole truth too. But it's like building a house of cards. At some point, it all comes crashing down.
As GO said, lay all your cards out on the table. To do otherwise is manipulative and deceitful. Do you realize that being dishonest about your adultery is nothing more than tricking your BH into staying married to you? You are denying him the power to make informed decisions about his own life.
Even if you do divorce, you owe him the truth. It is no better to blindside him with divorce papers while not telling him the truth of what went wrong in your marriage - not that he is not meeting your needs, but that you chose not to be open and honest with him about your adultery.
Ouch! Everybody is so focused on the affair! Not to make excuses or anything, but in the affair, I was preyed on by a sex addict who slept with at least three women on my block (that I know of) and ruined two marriages. (I think he, himself, was sexually abused, and passed that abuse on to me and a lot of other women.) I'm not saying that excuses what I did, but I didn't go looking for the affair and I was strong enough to stop it, (although he continued to beg me to sleep with him). I don't want it to kill my current marriage. It was two years ago! All the problems that I describe existed in the marriage before the affair, and contributed to me being vulnerable to this broken, predatory man.
There might be a time in the future at which I could discuss this with my husband, but why hurt him if the marriage can never work anyway? That's what I want to find out, if it seems like the marriage before the affair (which was pretty much the same) was worth saving. Anybody willing to address that?
PS Thanks for thinking about me and my marriage. I appreciate all replies, even if the are not to my liking. You have given me a lot to think about.
Wow Luro, it seems you have no comprehension of how cruel an affair is! You were preyed on a sex addict - please tell me, are you under 18, mentally disabled, or grabbed and dragged down in a parking lot... if not, then you were a willing participant, so please, you are not a victim of a predator. You were an opportunist, just like him, except your version of your little fantasy backfired. That doesn't make you prey, it just means things didn't go like you wanted.
Nobody here will condone your continued dishonesty to your husband and your utter lack of self-responsibility for what you have done. Are you ready to actually try and work on this, or are you looking to continue to lie to your poor husband.
And if you were to divorce and walk away today, you're just going to do the same thing again to husband #2 unless you learn to take responsibility for your actions and start comprehending what adultery really does to a person and a marriage.
Ouch! Everybody is so focused on the affair!
The reason we are focused on the affair is that it is the cancer that lies underneath the problems in your marriage!
Not to make excuses or anything, but in the affair, I was preyed on by a sex addict who slept with at least three women on my block (that I know of) and ruined two marriages. (I think he, himself, was sexually abused, and passed that abuse on to me and a lot of other women.) I'm not saying that excuses what I did, but I didn't go looking for the affair and I was strong enough to stop it, (although he continued to beg me to sleep with him).
Luro, that whole paragraph is full of excuses. You are shifting the blame for your adultery onto the OM. Like alis said, did the OM hold a gun to your head? I'm saying this to you as a FWW - every step along the way that led to your adultery was an opportunity for you to make a choice. I committed adultery not because of my unmet needs. People live in marriages every day and do not have their needs met. I made a CHOICE to commit adultery. I was not forced. I had an affair because I had poor boundaries and I allowed my needs to be met by another man. Period. You must take responsibility for your role and not make excuses.
I don't want it to kill my current marriage. It was two years ago!
What's different? You sure didn't care about "killing the marriage" two years ago, so why do you care now? I'm not being sarcastic or flip, I'm being serious. Why do you want to save the marriage now? It needs to be more than simply that you want to delude your BH into believing that you have always been a faithful and honest wife - that is a completely selfish reason.
All the problems that I describe existed in the marriage before the affair,
No one has discounted that. We get that. Totally. My marriage had problems before my infidelity as well.
and contributed to me being vulnerable to this broken, predatory man.
No, no, no! These are more excuses. You have to stop viewing yourself as a victim. Your BH is the victim. Not you, not OM.
There might be a time in the future at which I could discuss this with my husband, but why hurt him if the marriage can never work anyway? That's what I want to find out, if it seems like the marriage before the affair (which was pretty much the same) was worth saving. Anybody willing to address that?
Luro, that's not a question that can be answered because you cannot compare the pre-adultery marriage with a marriage based on lies. This is a marriage-building forum. Not every marriage CAN be saved, but I would argue that the vast majority deserve the opportunity to try to save, since the vast majority of us got married knowing absolutely squat about how to create a romantic, mutually fulfilling relationship and meet our spouse's needs. Wouldn't the absolute best case scenario be for you to be passionately in love with the father of your children, and he with you?
PS Thanks for thinking about me and my marriage. I appreciate all replies, even if the are not to my liking. You have given me a lot to think about.
Please pay particular attention to the replies that are not necessarily to your liking. Sometimes what stings the most is what hits us closest to the bone.
Ouch! Everybody is so focused on the affair! Not to make excuses or anything, but in the affair, I was preyed on by a sex addict who slept with at least three women on my block (that I know of) and ruined two marriages.
This is kind of what My XW said to me. She slept with a guy that had a habit of sleeping with Married Women. Also said he was a predator. And part of my brain said well that may all be true but can you explain to me that even if he is a predator; How did YOUR panties ended up on the floor and your ankles ended up behind your ears?
I understand you were unhappy but if I am your husband I know there are a lot of guys out there that will cheat with married women. I think your problem with your affair is the guy was sleeping with other women. If he had not then your affair may still be going on.
There are always going to be guys like the OM out there. Heck I have a brother who is a great guy. Nice would give you the shirt off his back. The guy has slept with so many married women it isn't funny. I know him well and love the guy. But he just has a gift of being able to sweet talk women and he gets them into bed. I hate that about him but those guys will always be out there. Even though I love my brother I can't stand his life style. It is hard to believe we had the same parents. I wonder how many lives he has destroyed.
(I think he, himself, was sexually abused, and passed that abuse on to me and a lot of other women.) I'm not saying that excuses what I did, but I didn't go looking for the affair and I was strong enough to stop it, (although he continued to beg me to sleep with him). I don't want it to kill my current marriage.
So you did not look for an affair bet ended up in one? Don't get me wrong you and your husband have not been having Sex. I get why another guy was able to get to you. It is pretty easy to see why it happened.
It was two years ago! All the problems that I describe existed in the marriage before the affair, and contributed to me being vulnerable to this broken, predatory man.
There might be a time in the future at which I could discuss this with my husband, but why hurt him if the marriage can never work anyway? That's what I want to find out, if it seems like the marriage before the affair (which was pretty much the same) was worth saving. Anybody willing to address that?
PS Thanks for thinking about me and my marriage. I appreciate all replies, even if the are not to my liking. You have given me a lot to think about.
You describe a Husband that does not sound all that special to you. You feel so little for him that you can't be honest with him. With the marriage you described I can understand why you were unhappy. Why don't you start facing problems head on and try and get things going in the right direction.
I can tell you this. I really doubt your Husband is happy. I just really doubt that a guy that is not having Sex with his wife is very happy. Something is going on here that is very strange. You two need to have a heart to heart talk. What do you have to lose?
The guy has slept with so many married women it isn't funny.
IHE, did you disclose this to their many husbands?
So you did not look for an affair bet ended up in one? Don't get me wrong you and your husband have not been having Sex. I get why another guy was able to get to you. It is pretty easy to see why it happened.
Her affair happened because of her poor boundaries and an opportunity. What are YOU seeing?
I feel like I would rather get a divorce than tell him about the affair I had.
Fine. Divorce him.
Fine. Then tell your H about your adultery.
It's a 2-choice dilemma.
You must choose.
Not choosing is surrendering your integrity to your fears.
I believe there are spiritual lessons to be learned from staying married.
There are. One spiritual lesson is about integrity & honesty. Another spiritual lesson is about empathy and caring.
You will not learn any lessons until you make the choice.
Door #1 - divorce him.
Door #2 - tell him.Can't have your cake & eat it too. Your reluctance to be honest is the epitome of "cake eater".
THIS IS PART ONE OF SIX POSTS. PLEASE READ ALL SIX BEFORE RESPONDING. THANK YOU.
Your thread title:
Is my marriage kaput? Please weigh in!
Is your integrity/honesty/empathy/caring kaput?
As far as weighing in goes ....... hell no. That's done in the privacy of my own bathroom !
Ouch! Everybody is so focused on the affair! Not to make excuses or anything, but in the affair, I was preyed on by a sex addict who slept with at least three women on my block (that I know of) and ruined two marriages. (I think he, himself, was sexually abused, and passed that abuse on to me and a lot of other women.) I'm not saying that excuses what I did, but I didn't go looking for the affair and I was strong enough to stop it, (although he continued to beg me to sleep with him). I don't want it to kill my current marriage. It was two years ago! All the problems that I describe existed in the marriage before the affair, and contributed to me being vulnerable to this broken, predatory man.
So what?
You still must make the choice.
Door #1
Door #2
There might be a time in the future at which I could discuss this with my husband, but why hurt him if the marriage can never work anyway?
Because, deep inside you don't want to be this steaming mess of conflict-avoidance.
Because, deep inside you yearn for intimacy you can never achieve if you remain dishonest.
That's what I want to find out, if it seems like the marriage before the affair (which was pretty much the same) was worth saving. Anybody willing to address that?
You are a conflict-avoider. That's how your marriage got so far into the weeds. You avoided conflict for years & years which gave your BH the impression that you were content with the circumstances/environment of your marriage. YOU did this by conflict avoidance. You continue the same path as you avoid telling THE MAN YOU MARRIED about the hurt you feel, how lonely you've been and how you conflict-avoided your way into another man's adulterous bed.
Thanks for thinking about me and my marriage. I appreciate all replies, even if the are not to my liking. You have given me a lot to think about.
A conflict avoider IS dishonest and makes choices (sacrifices) to keep the peace. Keeping the peace dishonestly creates an unhappy marriage environment. By allowing your spouse to go down the 'same old' road and not being radically honest with him, this crappy marriage has been created by you!.
You're in the weeds because you walked into the weeds.
Here is a *primer* about Dr Harley's
Giver/Taker concept. Written by star*fish a long time ago.
The Giver is the part of you that follows the rule: do whatever you can to make the other person happy and avoid anything that makes the other person unhappy, even if it makes you unhappy. It's the part of you that wants to make a difference in the lives of others, and it grows out of a basic instinct that we all share, a deep reservoir of love and concern for those around us.
But the Giver is only half of the story. The other half is the Taker. It's the part of you that follows the rule: do whatever you can to make yourself happy and avoid anything that makes yourself unhappy, even if it makes others unhappy. It's the part of you that wants the most out of life, and it grows out of your basic instinct for self-preservation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The giver is all about love and concern and the taker is our selfish side...so how can the giver be bad, or the taker be good?
Everybody recognizes the "good" in the giver and how giving can enhance relationships, but here's how a "bad" giver can ruin your marriage if all your marital choices are made solely selflessly:
*your giver is not honest....he won't tell your spouse what you need because he more concerned about your spouse feels, whether your spouse gets his needs met, than protecting your interests or your feelings. If your spouse asks the giver if it's okay to do something....even something you don't want to do...the giver says okay.
*your giver is the one who creates resentment...all that dishonesty cloaked in care....leads to misunderstandings, mixed signals, missed opportunities. The giver thinks...my spouse should KNOW what I need....just like I know what he needs.
*your giver is your martyr....endless giving creates the ever suffering spouse. Givers are praised for their selflessness, but they become very unhappy until all that's left is to somehow enjoy the pain....and get what secondary gain that offers.
*givers avoid risk and change...no rocking the boat...who knows what could happen? Nope, givers like safety....even when that involves enduring discomfort.
*givers believe in unconditional love...because they don't ask for conditions. They just give.
*givers handle your tender emotions...fear, sadness, care, consideration. They also tend to be weepy and needy.
We all know how "bad" the taker can be....afterall he's the guy who makes selfish demands, angry outbursts and most of our other LBs. But how can the taker be "good"?
*your taker is the guy you need at the negotiation table....because your giver will NOT create harmony, fairness, honesty in the dealings. Without your taker, your giver will create an environment of sacrifice....leading to resentment, anger and loss of love.
*your taker is honest about what you need and gives your spouse the information to CHOOSE to show you he loves you in the way that you would like it. He doesn't require mind reading...he lays it on the table.
*your taker fights for what you need and doesn't let you sit home three weekends in a row...he makes sure you're part of the fun.
*your taker is not an enabler or codependent.
*your taker saves your marriage as often as your giver does by making sure that reciprocity exists.
*your taker is willing to take risks and make changes.
As an example, I'd like to put forward my own marriage and how my giver undermined the happiness in my marriage for years. I NEVER went into negotiations with my taker....so I never even got close to getting what I wanted. I always put my husband first. But I wasn't happy. I didn't like it.....and I BLAMED HIM for not giving me what I wanted even though I wasn't honest and he didn't know how to please me. There is no negotiation without the taker...the giver just says "fine", do what you want. I lived with resentment every time he did what he wanted. I punished him for it too. And I was not someone who he would want to spend time with in the future either because I was pretty much angry all the time.
Letting my taker out saved my marriage. Oh to be sure, I couldn't let my taker rant and rage....but once he wasn't in chains all the time, he was far less volatile. My taker is the one who found out that my husband was actually willing and pretty enthusiastice about negotiation. Instead of the old pattern...H wants to do something...I say yes...then treat him badly. The new pattern goes like this....H wants to do something, I tell him how I might feel enthusiastic about that...we come to an agreement about how we can both get what we need....and I treat him well...and we both have fun! He gets to enjoy his activities without guilt. I know that I won't be neglected because we have also made plans together.
All the problems that I describe existed in the marriage before the affair, and contributed to me being vulnerable to this broken, predatory man.
Absolutely 100% agree with you here.
But, had you more insight you would have written:
"All the problems that I describe existed I CREATED in the marriage before the affair, and contributed to me being vulnerable to this broken, predatory man." Luro , if YOU do not change your ways, your marriage will not change.
You will still be as vulnerable as ever.You know I'm right. You're not stupid.
The first step of facing conflict is honesty.
The first step of conflict avoidance is dishonesty.
Radical Honesty .... the beginning of intimacy.
***Link*** to ~~~~ THE POLICY OF RADICAL HONESTYIf you do not click this link and read it over and over, you really need to divorce your husband.
Commit yourself to fighting your conflict-avoidance once and for all if you want to stay married.
If you divorce your husband rather than being radically honest with him,
you will remain a conflict avoider and ruin any future relationships in the exact same way.
There might be a time in the future at which I could discuss this with my husband, but why hurt him if the marriage can never work anyway? That's what I want to find out, if it seems like the marriage before the affair (which was pretty much the same) was worth saving. Anybody willing to address that?
You are hurting him by lying to him. You can't ever create an intimate, romantic marriage as long as you are deceiving your husband. Deceiving him like this is manipulative and cruel. The first step to recovering your marriage is honesty. That comes FIRST. You can't go to the second step until you complete the first step.
The marriage can't be saved as long as you are operating on the basis of dishonesty. That is like putting a band-aid on cancer to see if you "get better" before you commit to saving your life. It is a self defeating proposition.
And please don't use the excuse that this man was a predator. If you are a big enough gurl to drive a car and be married, you are fully responsible for your decisions. If you won't take accountability for your decision to have an affair, that means you won't be accountable in the future and your husband is not safe. Women CAN BE accountable, after all.
So the first step is radical honesty. Stop hurting your husband by lying to him about his life.
... There might be a time in the future at which I could discuss this with my husband, but why hurt him if the marriage can never work anyway? That's what I want to find out, if it seems like the marriage before the affair (which was pretty much the same) was worth saving. Anybody willing to address that?
PS Thanks for thinking about me and my marriage. I appreciate all replies, even if the are not to my liking. You have given me a lot to think about.
I suppose it's possible, Luro, but then you'd be relying on blind chance (and probably not very high blind chance). If you want an approach, a systematic plan, then you start with honesty. That'll give you better odds. No guarantees, but better odds.
I asked for advice, so it's kind of foolish for me to argue with it, but there is more at stake here than just me and my husband. We have a family who would suffer greatly if we were to divorce, children in middle school who are successful and happy. Also, my husband has not been hurt by my mistake, but he sure would be hurt it I laid it on him now. Just how and when am I to lay that mess in front of him, what possible good could come of it?
I asked for advice, so it's kind of foolish for me to argue with it, but there is more at stake here than just me and my husband. We have a family who would suffer greatly if we were to divorce, children in middle school who are successful and happy. Also, my husband has not been hurt by my mistake, but he sure would be hurt it I laid it on him now. Just how and when am I to lay that mess in front of him, what possible good could come of it?
Your tactics are leading to divorce, though. A marriage cannot be salvaged when it is based on lies and deceit. But you already know this because you can see that your methods have not worked. You should tell him the truth if you are serious about protecting your marriage and your children's family. The only possible way to transform your marriage is to tell your husband the truth.
And that is if he decides he wants to stay married to you. He might choose to leave the marriage and that is his right.
But this is hopeless as long as you continue to lie to him. Intimacy is impossible as long as there is a big lie between you.
We have a family who would suffer greatly if we were to divorce, I have an affair
That's what you should have been thinking about before you had the affair. You're going to have a hard time convincing us that your family is all of a sudden the concern, here. You are dodging accountability, friend.
Also, my husband has not been hurt by my mistake, but he sure would be hurt it I laid it on him now. Just how and when am I to lay that mess in front of him, what possible good could come of it?
A better question is: Do YOU want to be the one to tell him, or would you like for him to hear it from someone else?
You need to remember that your affair involved
two people; you and OM. Now, he will probably not say anything to your husband because he's protecting his own [censored], but that doesn't mean your secret is safe. You knew about OM's other OW, right? What makes you think no one knows about
you and OM?
Truth has a way of coming out. Maybe not today or tomorrow, but one day, when you least expect it, you're going to walk through the door and your husband is going to be standing there, staring at you in shock, after a world-shattering phone call from someone who thought he should know about you and OM.
Is that how you prefer to leave things? To chance?
I am also unimpressed by your depiction of OM as a sexual predator. That just doesn't fly, and it doesn't create any sympathy for you. You were not a victim of some hulking man hiding in the shadows, waiting to pounce. You gladly opened your heart and legs to him. Nope, he doesn't sound like a predator to me. It just sounds like he's an alley cat who likes a little strange, and you said "Sure, why not?"
You are not a victim, madam.
By the way, is this OM married?
Not to make excuses or anything, but in the affair, I was preyed on by a sex addict who slept with at least three women on my block
The truth will come out. One of these woman will have the character to do the right thing and redeem themselves. That requires that ALL of the OM's victims be exposed.
He is good-natured, an excellent father, and an admirable man,
I hope you will have the decency NOT to trickle truth or try to gaslight your BH.
The lies hurt the most.
what possible good could come of it?
Liar's usually say these things.
I guess you think it's OK for your children to lie to avoid responsibility as well.
Thank you very much, Pepperband, MelodyLane, GloveOil, Wulffpack Girl, IveHadEnough, Alis, Brainhurts, and everyone else who responded to my posts.
I read the Policy of Radical Honesty and have been thinking about it. It is very compelling and makes a lot of sense, but I have some doubts too. I can see that if we are going to attempt it, we would need to take baby steps and get a support network in place first. So I am thinking about these things, but I also have some questions about Radical Honesty as the Marriage Builders practice it.
1.) What about fantasizing and pornography? Are we to be honest about these? Frankly, I'm not sure if I want to know if my husband fantasizes about younger, prettier women, or if he watches porn when I am not around.
2.) Also, he stopped having sex with me, not the other way around. I fear that he may have had an affair, and I know that I am too fragile to hear about it. I don't want to know! What about honesty in this case?
3.) Also, I have trouble even being honest with myself, because I change my mind a lot. I say things I don't mean, even though I think I am being honest at the time. I get enthusiastic about things and promise more than I can deliver, or conversely, if I'm having a bad time, I will focus on the negative and say harsh things that aren't fair. How can I be honest about what I want if I don't even know what I want? (Does anyone else here recognize this problem? How do you cope?)
4.) Pepperband pointed out that I am a "conflict avoider" and he/she hit the nail on the head. Reading about the Givers and Takers inside all of us made a lot of sense. I have been a Giver for sure! (That's how I got into the affair. I almost never say, "No!" Especially not if a person says, "I love you; Please, give me this.") But, my husband is also a Giver and a Conflict Avoider. What if he doesn't want to know, either? He is a very smart man, a college professor, and he is really perceptive about people. Maybe he even knew at some level, that something was going on, but didn't want his suspicions to be given form, or brought up to a conscious level where he would have to do something about it.
For example, the person I had the affair with borrowed my computer and uploaded homemade porn of himself onto my computer. I forgot it was on there and my husband found it about a year later. He said, "I went to use (quicktime or whatever) and some pretty graphic stuff came up. What is it?"
My shocked reaction was totally honest, because I forgot it was there. "I have no idea," I said. "I haven't been watching any porn on my computer. What was it?"
He said it was close-ups of a man pleasuring himself. I said that maybe our college age daughter had been looking at it.
Then a few hours or perhaps a day later, I remembered what (who) it was. I started to tell my husband what it was, because he knew that this man was pursuing me, (I just never told him that I gave in.)but he waved me off.
"I don't want to know," he said.
5.) I hate to be sexist, but I know a lot of marriages where the wife forgave infidelity and the marriage continued, but I only know of one in which the husband forgave it, and that marriage is an unhappy mess of distrust, depression, and heavy drinking on his part. Are there any husbands on here who are happily married after their wives confessed affairs? How did you stay married?
I can see that if we are going to attempt it, we would need to take baby steps and get a support network in place first.
The FIRST step is to tell your husband the truth. Your support network is in place now. You have this board, which is a wealth of resources. We can help you and your husband through this. "Baby steps" is usually an excuse to not act and is not a rational course of action. So no, "baby steps" are not going to help you. TAking the first step by telling your husband the truth is warranted.
5.) I hate to be sexist, but I know a lot of marriages where the wife forgave infidelity and the marriage continued, but I only know of one in which the husband forgave it, and that marriage is an unhappy mess of distrust, depression, and heavy drinking on his part. Are there any husbands on here who are happily married after their wives confessed affairs? How did you stay married?
Yes, there are husbands who forgave their wives and are in happy marriages today because they used this program. Others chose to divorce their wives. That is your husband's decision to make on his own. He may choose to divorce you.
And of course you need to know if your husband uses porn. Because if he is, he should stop it.
2.) Also, he stopped having sex with me, not the other way around. I fear that he may have had an affair, and I know that I am too fragile to hear about it. I don't want to know! What about honesty in this case?
He would need to be honest with you about any affairs too. Of course you are not "too fragile" to hear it. That is ridiculous.
I say things I don't mean, even though I think I am being honest at the time.
OK.
I see no way in which I can be helpful to you.
I'm done. Dishonesty does not work with me.
Best of luck to you.
5.) I hate to be sexist, but I know a lot of marriages where the wife forgave infidelity and the marriage continued, but I only know of one in which the husband forgave it, and that marriage is an unhappy mess of distrust, depression, and heavy drinking on his part. Are there any husbands on here who are happily married after their wives confessed affairs? How did you stay married?
<---- Count 1.
This program is how we remain married.
3.) Also, I have trouble even being honest with myself, because I change my mind a lot. I say things I don't mean, even though I think I am being honest at the time. I get enthusiastic about things and promise more than I can deliver, or conversely, if I'm having a bad time, I will focus on the negative and say harsh things that aren't fair. How can I be honest about what I want if I don't even know what I want? (Does anyone else here recognize this problem? How do you cope?)
there's no rule that says you have to say what's on your mind right when you think of it! don't let what's in your head fall out your mouth.
when i was younger, i was pretty impulsive - i always wanted an answer RIGHT NOW! however, as i've aged, i've matured, and can wait, reflect, and really think about what i want/need and how to communicate it.
you should never say *anything* when you are emotional about it. impulsiveness never helped anyone cope in a relationship. it is always better to say nothing until you are sure you are communicating what you actually want/mean.
"let me think about that" helps me out a lot. or, "darling, i've heard you say you think ---- [repeating helps clarify]; let me think about that for a bit and i'll get back to you." later, i can say, "i'm ready to discuss ----. what time works for you?" then you can have a rational, honest discussion without lovebusting behaviours.
1.) What about fantasizing and pornography? Are we to be honest about these? Frankly, I'm not sure if I want to know if my husband fantasizes about younger, prettier women, or if he watches porn when I am not around.
Why not?
2.) Also, he stopped having sex with me, not the other way around. I fear that he may have had an affair, and I know that I am too fragile to hear about it. I don't want to know! What about honesty in this case?
Oh, stop it. Now you're suddenly a hothouse flower and can't handle the truth? Do you have some mental or emotional disability that prohibits you from being exposed to reality? That's just silly.
Also, I have trouble even being honest with myself, because I change my mind a lot. I say things I don't mean, even though I think I am being honest at the time.
This is lazy thinking and is easy to eradicate: when you find yourself trying to manipulate your own mind, tell yourself to KNOCK IT OFF.
4.) Pepperband pointed out that I am a "conflict avoider" and he/she hit the nail on the head.
And what do you say to yourself when you find yourself starting to avoid conflict: KNOCK IT OFF. Repeat as necessary. Being a Conflict Avoider is a decision, not a disease.
5.) I hate to be sexist, but I know a lot of marriages where the wife forgave infidelity and the marriage continued, but I only know of one in which the husband forgave it, and that marriage is an unhappy mess of distrust, depression, and heavy drinking on his part.
How does this apply to YOUR SITUATION? Answer, please.
He's not married anymore.
He's not married anymore.
Have you decided to be honest with your husband?
He's not married anymore.
Let me re-phrase my question: Was OM married when the two of you were having your affair?
Man, this is a tough room.
I don't want to hear if my husband is interested in other people because it would hurt.
Am I a hot-house flower? Oh, for sure. I am. But should I be? Can I help it? Can I change my nature? Can I stop being a conflict avoider if that is my natural tendency? Maybe.
Seems like everyone here is telling me to toughen up and open up. Those are hard to do! I have been living in a fantasy, but it's a fantasy that keeps me safe. It's hard to be brave if you're not.
My friend who confessed and has the unhappy husband has bearing on my situation because I don't want that. My husband seems pretty happy now, by comparison with that guy.
Goodness, I wish I had never written that I had that affair. I didn't want it. I didn't go looking for it. I tried to stop it even as it was happening, but I didn't try hard enough. I didn't enjoy it. I ended it. It was years ago.
I just want to move on.
What if I try to tell my husband, and he holds up his hand and says, "I don't need to know, let's just go on from here."? (And frankly, I have many good indications that this is exactly what he would say.)
Well, goodness, I didn't come on here to argue with people, but to ask for advice. I wanted to know if my husband was too indifferent or had fallen out of love, and if I should stop trying to think like a team, and start planning how to live without him, as a single person.
I feel like I painted a picture and asked for everyone's opinion on it, and everyone chose instead to focus on a dead fly that got stuck in the paint by accident.
Then @#$%^ affair was a stupid error on my part, but it's over and I have no emotional attachment to it. It's in the past. I will never never do such a thing again, because now I am wiser!
I have agonized over it, and even done self-imposed penance. Telling my husband would only hurt him and the family.
Anyway,
I will think about all that I have heard here and keep investigating. Thanks a lot to everyone for all the responses, even the toughest ones. It was generous of you to consider my problems and offer your perspectives. I appreciate all the readings and links I have been directed to.
It will probably take a while to unravel this mess, but we might attempt it someday, after the kids are launched.
Thanks, everybody!
Yes, he was married at the time.
If your affair won't matter to him, as you say, then what is the harm in telling him?
In the time you took to write this long winded post, you could have told your husband the truth.
And we did give you the best possible advice. The first step to transforming your marriage is to tell your husband the truth. A marriage can't recover when there are secrets and lies. Anything else you do is a waste of time until you get honest.
Yes, he was married at the time.
In that case, his wife has a right to know you shagged her husband. Have you been checked for cooties?
I tell him the truth, but not the whole truth. I tell him the good parts.
Telling my husband would only hurt him and the family.
If your bookkeeper stole your money would you accept this excuse from a friend who knew you were being robbed? "Oh, I didn't tell you your bookkeeper was stealing money from you because I didn't want to hurt you!"
Now, wouldn't that be silly? You don't care about hurting your husband or you wouldn't have had an affair. You only care about covering your own hide.
Lying and adultery is what will hurt your spouse. The truth is therapeutic.
I tell him the truth, but not the whole truth. I tell him the good parts.
You LIE.
I tell him the truth, but not the whole truth. I tell him the good parts.
You LIE.
Isn't lying in your marriage like building a house on quick sand?
Door #1 - divorce him.
Door #2 - tell him.
These are you 2 ethical options.
Man, this is a tough room.
Yes, this is a tough room for conflict avoiders, no doubt. But it's the best room for them, as well.
Am I a hot-house flower? Oh, for sure. I am. But should I be? Can I help it? Can I change my nature? Can I stop being a conflict avoider if that is my natural tendency? Maybe.
Don't confuse 'tendencies' with 'decisions'. You can decide to face conflict square-on. People do it every day. Or you can decide to hide and let Life roll over you. Your call.
Goodness, I wish I had never written that I had that affair.
I would like to see you in a place where you would say this first, instead of your original comment, which is self-serving.
I feel like I painted a picture and asked for everyone's opinion on it, and everyone chose instead to focus on a dead fly that got stuck in the paint by accident.
To use your analogy, wouldn't you agree that the dead fly has ruined the picture?
It will probably take a while to unravel this mess, but we might attempt it someday, after the kids are launched.
I suspect you will find another reason to avoid this conflict after your kids are out of the house.
But good luck with that.
Yes, he was married at the time.
Does his wife know about your affair? It would be proper for you to inform her, because your affair is more than likely one of the reasons they divorced. She has the right to know what happened in her marriage. You do not have the right to so cruelly leave her in the dark.
I know I'm whistling into the wind on this one, because you will avoid the discomfort of having to own your actions, but you should know this.
I feel like I painted a picture and asked for everyone's opinion on it, and everyone chose instead to focus on a dead fly that got stuck in the paint by accident.
You made vegetable soup.
You made the choice to put a dead fly into your husband's soup.
The fly did not fall in the soup.
You put it there.
You're not going to tell.
You choose to watch your husband eat dead-fly soup.
Why?
So he won't think badly of you.
The fly is already in the soup.
You want to
"move on" and allow your husband to unknowingly eat flies.
The fly is already in the soup.
You want to "move on" and allow your husband to unknowingly eat flies.
"If H knew I PUT a fly in his soup, he might divorce me. Right?" 
Prior to your A, you had trouble in your M. If you had never cheated, that's where we'd be able to start.
When YOU cheated, the whole scene changed. Instead of us being able to treat your M for an infection in a few joints, we found a M being overrun by flesh-eating bacteria, and in danger of dying. Until the flesh-eating bacteria are dealt with, there isn't much point even looking at the lesser infection.
It would be like trying to put a band-aid on the splinter in your finger while you're bleeding to death from a gunshot wound.
YOU caused the possibly-fatal wound to your M, and you would of course much rather we focus on the splinter that was partially your BH's fault, too. Instead of the gushing, spurting injury that was all from YOU.
This isn't just some accidental fly in the paint. This is you and your BH painting a picture together, and you took an exacto knife and slashed it to bits. He doesn't even know the painting is slashed, but I assure you the damage is already done.
Your BH has already been hurt badly; he just doesn't know it yet.
You blamed your own daughter to cover yourself?
(About the pictures on the 'putter)
shudder!
I tell him the truth, but not the whole truth. I tell him the good parts.
First time I have heard that there were good parts to an affair.
I tell him the truth, but not the whole truth. I tell him the good parts.
By far the craziest thing that came out of a wayward's piehole .... the OP is so foggy ... I think we need a foghorn to reach her.
This BH is in so much danger ... I hope you, Luro, understand the lie you want to withhold is by far as cruel as Hilter and his murderous thugs. You intentionally want to withhold truth from a man .... one day you will be caught. You have a 99.99% chance of getting caught. The truth will come out someday.
When it does ...
I don't want to hear if my husband is interested in other people because it would hurt.
You don't want to hear because if your husband can have secrets, that somehow gives you the right to have secrets, too.
Am I a hot-house flower? Oh, for sure. I am. But should I be? Can I help it? Can I change my nature? Can I stop being a conflict avoider if that is my natural tendency? Maybe.
Stop naval-gazing. It's not pretty.
Seems like everyone here is telling me to toughen up and open up. Those are hard to do! I have been living in a fantasy, but it's a fantasy that keeps me safe. It's hard to be brave if you're not.
You were "brave" enough to sneak around on your husband, though.
My friend who confessed and has the unhappy husband has bearing on my situation because I don't want that. My husband seems pretty happy now, by comparison with that guy.
He's not. He knows something is wrong, he just doesn't know what.
Goodness, I wish I had never written that I had that affair. I didn't want it. I didn't go looking for it. I tried to stop it even as it was happening, but I didn't try hard enough. I didn't enjoy it. I ended it. It was years ago.
You didn't ... You tried ... so own up to it.
Then why are you here posting?
What if I try to tell my husband, and he holds up his hand and says, "I don't need to know, let's just go on from here."? (And frankly, I have many good indications that this is exactly what he would say.)
Then why are you afraid to tell him?
I feel like I painted a picture and asked for everyone's opinion on it, and everyone chose instead to focus on a dead fly that got stuck in the paint by accident.
You can honestly sit there and not agree that a fly stuck on the painting IS GROSS???
Then @#$%^ affair was a stupid error on my part, but it's over and I have no emotional attachment to it.
Then you should have no problem whatsoever with talking about with the one whom it affects the most: your husband.
Waywards who are really over their affairs are more than willing to TALK about it, with just about anyone.
I have agonized over it, and even done self-imposed penance. Telling my husband would only hurt him and the family.
Correction: it will hurt your pride.
I will think about all that I have heard here and keep investigating.
This only means that you have chosen to do nothing.
It will probably take a while to unravel this mess, but we might attempt it someday, after the kids are launched.
By then it will be too late. The only thing that hurts worse than an affair is being LIED to about the affair. A lot of betrayed spouses who would have otherwise chosen to recover with their wayward spouse, file for divorce when they learned they've been LIED TO FOR YEARS.