It doesn't matter what my story is or all the other BS stories on here are. We are all dealing with the same thing, betrayal by the person we joined ourselves in marriage to. The person we loved and believed they loved us.

Some WS come clean right away others TT for years. Whatever their story is I believe they water down the truth to save themselves or not hurt the BS anymore than they have. Those BS on here that believe they have the whole story or don't want to know anything that happened. Or those of us that want every detail and get a version of the truth, in the end how do we go on?

How do those of you that have made it, do you never think about it? I have read "our marriage is better than ever". How can that be? How can you have the ultimate betrayal happen to you, forgive that person, but you can't ever forget. It would be like saying you were raped and never think about it again. Our brains are not computers that we can just delete information.

I have been TT for 4 years now, each new "truth" is worse than the one before. At first I was more than willing to make it work, to try and heal our marriage, but now I sit and look at him as he tells me what really happened and I want to puke. We have gone to IC and MC, followed the MB program, read all the books (me more than he has). He has given me total transparency (as if there is such a thing). The more I read the more I think that it is impossible. I was reading about these new Apps you can get on your phone that give you a new secret number that never shows up on the bill and shows up on the phone like a game app or something.

We are going to set up some counseling with the Harleys, it is our last hope because I am hanging on by a thread and not sure of what I want anymore. I would love to hear some success stories, especially on how you have forgotten what your WS did to you.

Halfunit, the way you forget and move forward is to use the program. You have not been doing that. First off, MB does not advocate forgiveness. And secondly, one of the first steps is getting ALL the truth out. Most BS's sense it when they are not getting the truth. One solution to that issue is to have the WS take a polygraph.

Once the full truth is out and the marriage is completely arffair proofed [transparency, no more nights apart, removing the conditions that led to the affair] the next step is to create a romantic passionate relationship using these concepts. That means becoming a pro at meeting each others needs, avoiding lovebusters and SPENDING 20-25 HOURS OF UNDIVIDED ATTENTION TIME PER WEEK MEETING THE TOP 4 INTIMATE EMOTIONAL NEEDS.

I can tell that this has not happened in your marriage. Instead, the affair has trickled out over the years, keeping that unpleasant event top of mind. Every time it comes up you are both back to DAy 1 of recovery.

Marriage Builders is not a cafeteria plan where you can pick and choose the concepts. They all have to be followed exactly.

And I KNOW it works. There are many of us here who are in great marriages and we never think of the affair. I can think of the affair today and it doesn't phase me in the least. We haven't discussed it in YEARS.

The fact that you say "if there is such a thing" tells me your marriage is not affair proofed. IF you were with your husband 24/7 could he cheat? If he had a dumb phone, could he install an app? No, he could not. Your lifestyles need to be set up in a way so he CAN'T CHEAT.

I think you need to re-evaluate your whole approach to affair proofing, even if it means he quits his job and you start up a business together. If I were you, I would begin with a polygraph to clean out the wreckage of the past. There is absolutely no reason it should take 4 years to get the full truth.

You are right as usual Melody. I remember first coming here and hearing what you just said. In fact at that point he said they didn't have sex, just met for dinner and kissed. God what a fool I was, but I wanted to believe it so I did.

Then I would read other post on here and how other BS found out more happened and I would say that would never happen to me. Then the next truth came out they had oral sex, but he could not perform and she wasn't his type etc.

The latest was just this month and now it is sex 5 times and no condoms. ALL of this could have been avoided if I had listened to YOU at the beginning. If I had drug his sorry [censored] into a polygraph. On that I only have myself to blame because I just knew he would never hurt me this way.

He has quit his job and we work at home together, but we also were home 24/7 together during his A. I am going to pull out all my MB books and he is either going to put 100% into reading them, take the Poly or I have to leave, this is now effecting my health in a bad way.

Thanks Melody, you are a special lady who has helped many marriages and deserve an award if there was such a thing.

I agree with the praise of Melody. She knew months ago that my WS was having an affair, and I was convinced she was nuts - there was no way my WW would do that.

I do wonder how one affair-proofs a marriage when one spouse works full time and the other stays home.

With EPs in place and spyware on phones, keylogger on computers. Until you verify you keep checking.

HU,

Have you given your WH a polygraph?

So you were in the room when they were having sex? How did that happen??

[

What is affecting your health EXACTLY? Is it that you don't feel you have all the truth? Or is it that he is ABLE to conduct an affair without your knowledge?


Thank you! You are a very special lady too and I really want to help you!! You deserve it.

I am still pretty sure my wife had not given me the full truth. I told her that we will get a poly and I told her two of the questions that would be asked one referred to the timeline and if they used protection like she says they did. She did not like the fact that I was going to ask questions about it. So, I am somewhat sure that something has been omitted. The reaction to the questions that will be asked is enough to tell you the truth sometimes. So what do you do if you get the poly and find out that they have lied to you?

There are many ways, but when it can't be done in current circumstances, then a lifestyle change is in order. For example, one surgeon retired and now stays home with his wife 24/7. Others have quit their jobs and started businesses together. Every situation is different, but if there are gaps in your affair proofing, they need to be resolved. I don't have the answer for every situation, but I do know that when there is a will, there is a way!

And yes, some people think I am crazy when I tell them their spouse is having an affair. One guy asked me if I was "psychic" when he confirmed his wife was, in fact, having an affair. I am almost always right. And so are many, many other regular posters here. We can tell right away. I have heard Dr Harley tell many people on his radio show that their spouse was having an affair. It is like the master mechanic who can listen to an engine knock and know with certainty that it is getting ready to throw a rod. When you deal with engines every day for years on end, you know exactly what it sounds like.

So what do you do if you get the poly and find out that they have lied to you?

That would vary by the state of recovery/acceptance by the BS. The only standard would be that whatever the BS is going to eventually decide (after learning of ongoing deceit) should be concretely finalized prior to the poly, and transmitted to the WS.

"WS, next week you will be undergoing a polygraph test regarding the answers
to questions you have already given me, and swore were truthful. If the poly
shows you have been lying about those vital subjects, you can expect me to..........."

And, yes, the discussion needs to be exactly that radically clear and definite! There can be no "But I never thought you'd...." whining and post-poly squirming permitted in an attempt to make the BS the "bad guy/gal".

You may also consider giving them One Last Chance to fess up to the whole truth 1-2 days prior to the polygraph test.

Hand them your list of 5, 10, or 20 questions and go over each one.

Then, at the time of the polygraph test, you can just ask if they were 100% truthful when they responded to your previous list of questions.

You can still have them asked several specific questions to put your mind at rest once and for all, but know what your boundaries are if they lie and know what you WILL follow through with.

Good Luck,

LTL

What is affecting your health EXACTLY? Is it that you don't feel you have all the truth? Or is it that he is ABLE to conduct an affair without your knowledge?

Melody, we shared an office together and worked on our home business. We were 6" apart as he e-mailed and chatted with her. Anytime I was out of the room they would talk. So yes he did it right under my nose. I know for sure I have not gotten the truth he has lied to me since my original D-day, in fact I believe he has lied about things since we first met.

Brain,
No I have not done a poly, but I am going to have to do it. I can't live like this.

Here you go and there are example questions in this thread.
Polygraph Testing

I don't understand how.. I share an office with my husband and neither one of us could chat with an OP while in our office. We have a big house, but I would hear him if I was upstairs and he was talking on the phone in the study. There are lots of ways to prevent that kind of contact. I am sitting right across the desk from my husband right now and I can see his computer monitor and know exactly what he is doing. He is looking at houses for sale in some city in Texas. IT would be impossible for him to chat or email anyone.


I agree you should set up a polygraph. But what about his occupation? Do you still work together?

At the time of the A our desks were on opposite walls so back to back. Most of his calls were when he ran to the P.O.. H was a pro at having several Windows open and chatting with her on one.

We still run a business together, but now we are in separate rooms, as different parts of our business need to be done on certain m a Chinese if that m a les since. We just are not together in the same room all day.

That is something you will want to change then. The environment that led to the affair must be changed. So be thinking of ways he could not do this again. Do you have a keylogger on his computer?

I had one on there for 2 years, nothing showed up. Then I changed phone Co so that everything he did on his phone was sent to me. We only have one car now and go everywhere together.

We are moving into a new home. We have no need for this big house and plan on moving everything for the business into one room in the new home or we have talked about selling it all and just traveling.

Why did my post before this say Chinese.....made me laugh...shouldn't post before bed.

So your keylogger did not show his chats and he had an affair while you were in the SAME house with him 24/7? I have no idea where to go with this....

I'm confused. Did he know you had a keylogger on there?

So if he can't put together and abide by EPs to avoid another affair. It's going to be tough.

Can you put parent lock on everything??

HalfUnit,

Marriage Builders is not a plan that works when the wife is doing most of the work. When the husband drags his feet and makes exceptions and ignores the rules, the wife needs to start making plans to protect herself from her husband.

Whoa whoa Whoa....Not sure how this got so confusing. His affair started in 10/08, I found out in 07/09 (9 months). I found out because I needed info off his computer and saw his new e-mail account (I read plenty, but stupidly made him delete everything). So I confronted him, he "came clean" and the affair ended. During those 9 months he was chatting and e-mailing her not 5" from me.

I researched and that was when I put the keylogger on. He never tried to contact her again.

I e-mailed OW and pretended to be him and told her I could not use that e-mail account and we needed to move to another one and she fell for it. I pretended to be all upset and she asked if she should still move to be near him (her idea, that I read in the e-mails, her asking to, him telling her to stay for her girls). She was planning that in a few weeks time. She lived 1,000 miles away and was giving up her children and H. He (I) told her to wait and see what happened. That was how I found out he had a secret phone as she asked me (him) to call her. She also talked about our good family friend and how she had reached out to him in a panic because she had not heard from H. I totally believed their story that they met only for dinner and one kiss.

I eventually e-mailed her as myself and told her I had discovered the account. She never did find out it was not him she was e-mailing at the beginning. I talked to her for several weeks and she would tell me something and then I would ask H about it. He did not know I was talking to her. Some of what she said would match his story and some wouldn't. I did get more info out of her as I pretended to be her friend and understand her pain. She started sharing problems in her own marriage and how much she loved my H and what a great man he was.

Months later I decided that I really needed to tell her H, it was not fair and he had to know. It was one of the hardest things I have ever done, knowing my words were going to turn this mans world upside down. At first he did not believe me, but then I used some of the things OW had shared with me in our e-mails. He asked that I forward those to him plus the ones where she thought she was talking to H. I did.

She had no idea what my H had told me, so she came clean and told a lot and her BH then wrote me with all the details he had learned and I then sat down with my WH again and he came clean on more.

I have never felt as if I had the whole truth, but thought I could let it go and move on. It just didn't work, so I reread some of the e-mails from her BH and I had missed a couple key things and went to my H and asked him and that was when again I learned more.

This cannot continue, I know that. Melody told me years ago to get the poly done and I was to stupid or to embarrassed or whatever, but I did not listen and so now 4 years have gone by and we are back to day one. I have prayed over this so much the last few days and read everything all of you have said and now I either get the poly done or I have no one to complain to if I stay.

I do believe my H needs help. He is a wonderful man, very intelligent, funny and I could go on and on about his good points, but he is a liar. Whether he learned that as a child or he was born that way, he needs help in learning to not do it.

I hope this helps everyone understand things better.

I even have my questions written out.

So when is the poly scheduled?

Interesting development. When I first came to MB, I did buy all the books for "us" to read, read on the site and posted on here etc.

As much as I did, I could not get my H on here. He would read a page or two of a book, we printed out some of the worksheets and he half way did them.

We had a long talk last night and I was very angry over our Focus on the Family call (see thread) and I really opened up on how I felt. I then brought up our failed attempts at MB and it wasn't because I was not putting in 100%, but I could not save the marriage alone. H thinks he can say I love you and I'm sorry and everything is OK. I told him I was not sweeping this under the rug. We fix it or call it quits.

So this morning he gets up early and I get up an hour later. We grab coffee and he starts talking about how he had been reading on here. How it hit him that the reasons he did not want to read on here or the books in the past was when he got to the Radical Honesty part, it made him uncomfortable, so he made excuses not to read. He said he knew back then he was lying and reading this morning he got it. It became clear to him.

At one time I had encouraged him to join and he made reasons why he couldn't. Now he is going to join, which is huge to me. He is willing to do the whole program not just the parts he was comfy with.

So the ball is in his court so to speak.

Schedule the poly graph. Get your questions done.

You need to quit lollygagging and bringing up the affair - get the poly done, and stop bringing the affair up.

Not sure what I did to tick you off, but correct me if I am wrong, isn't this a place to come to for help and not be told to stop bringing up the affair. Hmmmm I have read many many threads that go on for weeks, years and only a few times do people get attacked when needing help. Interesting why you have now posted on two of my threads in such a odd way.

I am in the Surviving An Affair section?

You are the type of person who runs hurting people needing help off a site. Shame on you!

Are you ignoring my question?

When is the polygraph scheduled?

Next week and no I am not ignoring your questions.

Ok good.

Did you see the questions on the polygraph thread?
Post your questions here for feedback.

HHH wasn't attacking you. What you'll find is members who are straight to the point. He was saying to get your answers about his affair instead of constantly bringing it up. Dr. Harley has said that the BS should ask what questions they need answered and then get into recovery but don't continually bring it up. Part of starting recovery is the WS open to answering these questions.

The part of making it safe to be honest is the spouse is able to be honest without the other spouse getting angry or freaking out because of the honesty. I do see where you've said others are attacking you when what they've tried to do is be honest. Essentially you want your spouse to feel comfortable with being honest and not have toworry about how you'll respond.

HU,

I agree with the posters on both of your threads. I don't think HHH was attacking you at all. I think you've been so hurt and lied to that your perception may be off.

Your WH has been lying and gaslighting you for years. Have you seen your doctor? I'm concerned you may be experiencing PTSD.

Will you email Dr. Harley?

I lived through 9/11 I have always had PTSD. I have never gotten angry at WH, nor have I ever freaked out (except when I first found out, but I didn't lash out or yell at him), more like I cried for days.

My other post was only to help others seeking advise through something free and not getting good advice. I will not do that again. Go read that whole thread again it was like no one understood it.

I still think telling someone to not mention the affair again when HHH in his own thread stated:

"Not so much a question, but just a chance to be heard by people who know and understand. People who don't have a direct investment but can be supportive. It's the one thing that I am lacking."

The detective coming out in me!

Maybe I am needing support like he did, but that is not what he offered at all.

I started to post more, but whats the point honestly

We are here to help you and support you use MB.

Will you post your questions here?
Will you email Dr. Harley?

3 years later, I might be a little bit different - not quite like I was in October of 2010 when I posted my story and that response.

For instance; we put together a plan and followed it. I stopped bringing up my wife's affair (last discussed 3/2011). We make sure to have proper UA time, and it is felt when that is not met.


That doesn't change that the affair is still brought up between you and your husband 4 years later, and that is a major issue. Every time you discuss the affair with your husband, the recovery clock goes to 0. Every. Time.

Every time you talk about the affair, you lose love for your husband - Love Units are withdrawn with neither his knowledge nor consent. Every. Time.

Every time you talk about it, you bring the past into the present. Every. Time.


So, when I see you cutting yourself, and I tell you to put down the damned razor blade... if you want to call that an attack, sister... well, I don't know what else can be done to help you.


Good luck.

Halfunit, how are you doing? I saw you online this morning and was thinking about you..

Hi Melody, Thank you for asking. I still come on here and read. Sadly things are still not resolved here. I had scheduled the poly and 2 days later our daughter ran away.

She had been in therapy for awhile, she was becoming worse. So we had started seeing her therapist as well to try and help her. She is still gone, we have no idea where she is. It is just a long horrible story.

So I felt under the circumstances there was no reason to post on here. As soon as we reschedule the poly and that gets done I will be back with the results. My FWH knows that has to be done or our marriage is over, we can't heal anything without taking the first step.

HU

HU, how absolutely dreadful. May you and your daughter be speedily and safely reunited. Please take care of yourself at this trying time.

HU, can you sign up for the MB course? I think it is going to take a serious approach and good, solid guidance. Have you looked into that? That is what my DH and I did back in 2007. They assign you a coach and take you through the program step by step. You have daily access to Dr Harley. I am very sorry to hear about your daughter.

Melody, I think that is a great idea.
This has gone on way too long and has caused horrible damage to our marriage and family. We are going to have to get help to walk us through MB. My FWH just does not seem to understand the time we need to put in this.

My daughter was so angry that her father lied to her. See he told her the same thing he told me at the beginning that he did not have sex with the OW (she asked him), he swore on all sorts of peoples lives, you know how waywards are. She found out that he did have sex and had lied to her. She started having sex with any boy that asked.

A few months ago she asked me if the OW's daughters knew and I said I did not think so as few people know (I never exposed to anyone). I did talk to the OW's husband (a long time ago) and he had asked if we had told our kids and I said yes and he said that he and the OW had decided not to tell their daughters anything, only that OW just e-mailed and old BF. I found papers in my daughters room where she had written how unfair it was that her family had to go through all this and OW daughters didn't and when she turned 18 she was going to tell them. She even had found their names on FB.

Now I feel we need to get back on track of fixing us then we can fix the family. Other than that we live in a small town and no one seems to want to help us get her back home. I hear through other parents that their kids will see her, but we have not spoken to her in what feels like months. It is very hard to sleep at night not knowing where your child is and if they are OK.

HU

Your coach AND Dr Harley will try to motivate him. The coach contacts you weekly to keep you on track in your lessons. And if you run into problems, you have access to Dr Harley. The program lasts a year and is well worth the $1000 cost. That cost includes all the books, workbooks, and - I THINK - the CD set.

How old is your daughter?

Well after reading through all the options, we need to get the $945 one, where we have someone who may be able to help keep my "reluctant" FWH on track. We all know $945 may sound like a lot, but honestly having been through a divorce it is actually cheap.

FWH gets a bonus in December from his pension, I think I will have a talk with him about using part of this money to invest in helping us. Maybe make it a Christmas present, since we may not be doing any thing else for the holidays.

Thanks Melody, it was not something I would have thought of. I have bought many of the books (and read them all, many times). A few weeks ago FWH bought "Fall In Love Stay in Love". He then came in to show me. Only problem is, though it was sweet of him to have done this on his own, he has not opened it. Ir went from sitting on his night stand to in the drawer.

WE did the same thing and sort of slogged along for years in a semi recovery. Then we went to the MB seminar in Florida in 2007. Back then you had to fly to another city and stay for the weekend through a group seminar. There were about 50 people in our group. [MrW and MrsW among them!] They ID'd on the first day that independent behavior would be a problem with me in the personality test. My H also had angry outbursts which Dr Harley successfully QUELLED. With the guidance of Dr Harley and our coach, Sandy, our marriage completely and fully recovered. I can honestly say we now have a happy, passionate, romantic marriage. It really does work when you follow the steps.

When we did it, the program was $2000. And it was worth every penny. You will feel the same way. It will be the best $1000 bucks you ever spend.

QFT!