OK, so let me fill in you guys on everything that happened since I originally posted my situation in my original thread. You guys obviously know what happened in the thread, but I'll try to remember that was said on the outside.

So, I created the thread Sunday night. Monday, she came by for me to see our son. Now, this is the day she came over and there was dog poop and mold on the kitchen counter. Anyway, I had left my computer on all day and left the thread up. I had to work late and so she was here at the house cleaning and so on and got on my computer and saw the thread.

So, I call her when I got home. She left getting tired of waiting for me. I text her that I was working late but she left her phone at her Mom's. Anyway, so we talk and she starts asking questions about what I was doing. I kept saying that I am trying to save our marriage. She asked for specifics and I told her I contacted family and friends for support in our marriage. She asked what I told them and I said the truth. She yelled about how everyone already knew. I said, that's OK because I was only telling them so I could ask for the love and support.

Just to remind y'all, she moved out the last Sat. of June. That Wednesday, she called my house phone 4 times leaving messages about how she wanted to talk to me, how she's my wife and she loves me. One of the messages she was flat out crying. So, I talk to her on the phone and she says she's moving back and that she wants me to go with her to her sister's in Austin (we're in Houston) so we can talk about stuff away from everything. I told her to come over and she did. She started making comments about how she's afraid that I'll kill her and leave her on the side of the road once she tells me everything. Well, she ends up telling me then which was, "I slept with him... in April.... in May..... and June" I was stunned but wasn't surprised. I was only surprised that it was an ongoing thing where I thought it was probably a one night that went too far. I told her, if we're going to work, he can't be in your life at all. She acts a little freaked, says that maybe she rushed to a decision and decided to go to her sister's for the weekend by herself.

So, back to the recent, she tells me on the phone that that Wed. was a moment of weakness. That she just missed home and came back but realized it was a mistake as soon as she got back.

The next morning rolls around. I'm on the computer before I leave for work and she calls me a couple of times on both my cell and home phones. I just ignore them. I few minutes later, I hear my front door open and close. Yep, she came over. She bashed the site and everyone on it, told me she thought I was stronger than that to join a "cult". That's all I remember form that 1 hour conversation is her bashing the site. I just listened and when she asked anything I just said, "Anything I'm doing is only to try to save our marriage because I love you," or, "I'm doing anything to try to hurt you." Now, she defends that Dreamthing in she thought it was awful that everyone jumped down their throat just because he/she had a different opinion.

That night, she brings our son over so he can spend the night with me. She bashes the site more (this is the day the OM posted as well) and I don't remember much of that conversation again. I know she's complained a few times about how everyone can twist anything she says and bash her for it. She also said that I please change my username and post elsewhere she doesn't know what I'll do next to her. She starts to COMPLAIN about Dreamthing now saying how he/she is been saying hurtful things.

So, she comes over last night so my son can spend the night over again. We talk again about the site. Now, this is the day she changed her username and started saying some weird stuff. I responded with, "WHERE'S MY SON?!!!" She texted my phone telling me, "Geez, he;s right here next to me, I'm just messing with these people on the board." Anyway that night, she says we win, that she's the bad guy. She complains again about everyone on here and how they're losers have nothing better to do than sit on the computer, yada, yada. She says she's tired of crying over me all week over the board and she's not going to do it anymore. She said she's cried for years over me and she's just going to stop. I said I have no problem with her posting everything on her side of the story so people can get the full picture. Her: "Why would I want to air your dirty laundry to a bunch of people on the internet that doesn't know either one of us?" She said that, if she had been the thread starter talking about me, that everyone would have bashed me from the start as well.

She tells me she thinks all my efforts (flowers sent to her work on her bday, cooking a nice dinner for her one night when she came over, etc) are only because I'm competitive and want to "win".

Somehow her Mom comes up in the convo, and she tells me that her Mom hates me right now. Now, a few weeks ago, i called her Mom and she said something that just set me off and I b****** her out. I have apologized a bunch since. But, last night, my wife says that she still dislikes me over it and, these boards have pushed her over the top, especially since I called her a dingbat on here. I told her very calmly that I would love to talk to her to air our our differences. She yells, "You think she'll talk to you?!" "Don't sit there and expect a phone call from her!!!" Why do you care about air differences with my mom? I don't care if your family hates me!!" I just repeated the same things calmly, "If she hates over stuff, I would love to talk to her so that I can clear the air and air out any differences.

She asks if she can take a small piece of furniture, I said, "It's OK. I can't stop you. It's yours." She responds, "You don't have to be rude!!" Me: "I didn't mean to come off rude, it's just yours so you can take it if you need to." She grabs it and storms off to the door. I ask if she needed any help and she said, "NO, I don't need your help!" She goes to her car and puts it in.

So, she comes back in and her attitude switches. She starts asking me casual questions about stuff. But, the talk turned back into the site again. LOL!! She says she feels forced by everyone on here to do the questionares I gave her (EN's & LB's). I reiterated that she didn't have to do them and, if she did, she could go at her own pace. I wasn't pushing her to do them.

I asked her why she even cares what these people on the internet think of you. She said she doesn't but worries, even though I have a mind of my own, what things I would listen to or how involved I'd get in it.

Anyway, I don't remember what we were talking about, but she started getting louder. I calmly asked her if she could tone it down a notch. She got all pissed and stormed out. She says, "You say you love me but you complain about me on a piece of paper!" I asked what piece of paper. She said on my desk. She storms off out the door and drives away.

No more than 2 minutes later, the house phone rings. It's her. She sounds different again. She apologizes for messing with mr friends on the internet in the afternoon and for letting her emotions get the better of her that night. She said she will try to control her emotions and not let her tone get out of hand. I asked her what piece of paper. She said the EN's questionare I had on my desk that I barely worked on.

Well, now get this. She started to back track her whole story. How it's been nothing but an EMOTIONAL affair. That, that Wed. she came back to me, was just her trying to push me away by acting like she's coming back, telling me she slept with him so I would not want her anymore. She tells me how good a liar she is and how good an actress she is (she was a thespian in high school). But, she just keeps telling me it's been nothing but an EMOTIONAL affair. I asked, "So, you lied to all your friends and family?" her: "No! I've told them from the start that it was an EMOTIONAL affair and by two best friends have met him." I just said OK. She goes on about how she denied herself having a guy friend all these years because of my "jealousy".

She comes to pick my son up this morning for school, and she tries to ask me questions about which people have contacted me back on my expose. I didn't answer. I just said I don't feel like talking about it at the moment. She asked me to tell me what's on my mind and I said nothing really. She said, "Fine! We'll just act business like and just talk about our son only!" But, then she starts asking me questions about my weekend last week in a much nicer tone.

Anyway, haven't heard from her since. I know she's freaked over this site and even more freaked that a) she's not doing anything to get under my skin and b) doesn't know what's going on in my head because I've done mostly listening when she's been over.

I apologize for LOOOONG post, but that is just about everything that I can remember that's happened the last few days that I haven't been able to post since they were on and could read.

There were lots of people following your thread. You probably don't have to post all those details for them to find you here, maybe you can be a little more discreet IF you think that there's a chance that you will be followed again. KWIM?

Glad you're back!!!

WB and thank you for getting us up to date.

Hope you are doing well today.

I was going to PM or email a bunch that posted in the original thread and invite them over, but I couldn't for some reason.

One thing I remembered since I posted last night...

When she came over yesterday morning to pick our son, she handed me her EN's questionaie that she filled out.

The PM feature on these forums has been disabled so we can not PM one another.

And you'll only be able to email those that have their email address on their profile and/or signature IF it's a current address for them.

But the word WILL get out and they will return to help you.

Check out that EN questionaire carefully. Are you fulfilling those needs? What about your questionaire? Did you fill it out too and give it to her?

MenOut - consider me a bit "dense," but I don't know who you were in a "previous thread," although I do have a suspicion that it was a fairly lengthy thread.

"Fog."

"Guilt."

"Emotional."

"Taker."

Just some words to think about to put her "back and forth" into some perpsective. Recovery is a loooong process, and you are not there yet. "Destablizing" the affair and allowing some sunshine to begin to dissipate the "foggy thinking" is where you still are.

You are doing fine, and none of us does it "perfectly," so continue doing what you've been doing.


"Actions have consequences" is a reality too. Her actions AND your actions (such as exposure). There beneficial consequences and negative consequences, but there most often are no "easy" consequences. We "take action" usually from either an "emotional standpoint" or from a "rational standpoint." You are choosing the "rational standpoint" and it WILL have the "immediate" consequence of triggering emotional reactions from your wife. Keep focused on the "long term" consequences that accrue when the "fog" does start to lift and she begins to once again be in a position to make "rational standpoint" choices.

God bless.

Now is not the time for bitterness and suspicion. Watch the ACTIONS (such as actually filling out a form she "said" was stupid) not the words. Filling out the EN form is NOT "the answer," it is a "starting point" in beginning to understand how each of you "ranks" your own perceived needs AND it provides an insight into how each spouse "feels" that their needs are being met by their spouse.

INFORMATION is what you are after right now, not a "recovered" marriage.

Well, I'm not really fulfilling them now that she's moved out. I was trying to (had a real good idea of what needs I was not meeting before the questionaire) before she moved out.

I sort of filled my out. When I sat down to do it, all I could think of is our relationship since I found out about the OM. So much has happened over the last 2+ months, that it was hard remembering how I felt of our relationship before.

You're right. I shouldn't have said that. I should be happy she DID fill it out and not think of what other motives that MIGHT have been behind it.

IMHO, I think it is time to change the locks on the doors... or at least put password protect on your computer. She no longer has the right to come in and out unannounced and without knocking.

MenOut,

Keep one thing in focus...

It is what she DOES rather than what she says that is real.

She says you are done, but she filled out the ENQ.

The other side of the coin will also occur quite often in that she may say she wants to work things out, but continue with OM.

Act based on what she does and not what she says.

Make a serious effort at a superb Plan A as intense and complete as you can muster the strength for. Have a plan that you can execute no matter what she does and you stick with your plan. Try not to react to what she does or says but act based on your plan while watching her actions.

Nothing you will say to pursued her will suddenly turn things around and make her fall at your feet begging forgiveness. It will be little things you do to make deposits into her Love Bank that will produce the most results while at the same time stating as you have that you are fighting for your family to remain intact.

Make it about the FAMILY instead of just the marriage. She has checked out of the marriage, but the family is still something she will accept. Over time the two might become one and the same.

Beware unmet expectations! When you do something with a preconceived idea of how she will react to it is when your hopes will be dashed and you will question your plan. You work YOUR plan until you are out of gas.

You ACT on your plan while watching her ACTIONS...

Skip the trying to figure out what she is thinking and don't constantly try to make adjustments. The things you do right will have such subtle responses from her that you WILL miss the things that are working and also the things that are not. Tweak your plan solely on what you learn and understand, not because of her reaction.

You act and let her be the one to react...

Steve Harley uses a story in illustration that is worth repeating:

You stand beside a raging river needing to get to the other side. It is too deep to wade and the current is too strong to swim safely. There seems to be nothing you can do to reach the other side.

You pick up a rock and throw it into the water and see it disappear beneath the torrent. You throw another rock after it and it to vanishes without a trace. No matter how many rocks you throw, you see nothing for the efforts.

But if you think about what is happening you will realize that the river is not making the rocks vanish into nothingness. They are piling up on the bottom of the river even though you don't see any sign of them even being there.

You throw rock after rock and watch as each one seems to be lost. But you keep throwing those rocks, one after another and just understand that they are having an affect.

You throw 499 rocks and none makes so much as a noticeable change in the river's course. The flood still overwhelms each one. But then you throw the 500th rock and just the very tip of it appears above the surface. You now have a beginning to build on and before long each rock makes more difference than the one before and soon you have the beginning of a bridge to the other side.

Recovery of your marriage is your goal, but in order to do that you must first save it. Save it first and fix it later. Don't try to fix it in order to save it since working on fixing what is broken will result in having nothing left to fix.

Work your plan and KNOW that it is working even when you can't see it. Plan A her socks off. Meet whatever ENs she allows and avoid all love busters. It WILL make deposits into her Love Bank even when you don't see them. It is how OM got to be OM, even if she didn't realize it was happening. It is how you can do the same even if she doesn't realize you are doing it.

I'm cheering you on and praying for you even when I'm not posting.

Mark

Easier said than done. The house is one we've been renting out from a family friend of her and her Mom. So, I'd have to go through him and everything. Not saying it can't be done, but it's just not as easy as just changing the locks out today or whatever.

Hi MO,

I haven't read your other thread, but I think you are taking an admirable stab at remaining calm and rational -- something that may frusturate your WW incredibley, but that she desperateley needs right now. Continue to be a rock of stability, and to meet her needs as best you can in your circumstances. Like Exodus says, you may not see immediate improvement, but your efforts are not in vain.

Best wishes,

slh

I posted a thread titled for your wife, I don't know if she'll respond or not.

good news on the EN. I would like to harp on something early and probably unneccsarily.

Stay away from other women. Your very vulnerable to the first woman to come along and sending the slightest signals. I am not a weak person, but i have to admit i made this mistake myself.

I also have a problem with Porn, I dont think I'll ever be "cured", but its something my W is helping with, and will continue helping me with.

Good Luck to ya!

bobby

Thanks, RMX.

I guess you can try anything but, I'm thinking some of what other's posted in my original thread were pretty revealing and moving. If those posts can't through to her, I don't know what can. LOL!! But, I really do appreciate the effort.

I'm REALLY trying to stay away from other women. After she confessed, I had thought about seeking a one-night stand if only to make me feel better. But, I'm come way off that now. I'm still married (legally and in my heart) and will live my life and any decisions I make based on that.

BTW I was just in houston and boy did they stick it ya'll. You pay gas tax, registration and on top of that the sam houston tollway .. OUCH!

I was jumping all over the city (greenspoint mall) to gessner, harrisburg, even way out in pasadena and beaumont, y'all just love sprawl!!!!

we arent going to accept toll roads so easily here!!

Quick question...

Should I suggest to the OMW that she should expose to all his and her friends and family as well?

Or suggest that she take action to not allow her kids around my WW?

I dont feel confidant in any answer i could give you in regards to that question. Sorry.

Someone else will have to help you with that one.

1. Should I suggest to the OMW that she should expose to all his and her friends and family as well?

No - unless asked.

2. Or suggest that she take action to not allow her kids around my WW?

YES!

RMX said:


Oh, yes, indeedy, RMX, it hurts to live here in H-town. When my dh worked for GE, he was travelling 40+ miles one-way on the Sam Houston (Am I ever glad he went back to NASA!). And don't even think about leaving the house or work after 10 AM and before 5 PM, unless you plan on being in a car or building with the AC set to "Arctic". The heat will kill you.

MO said:


MO, I can't encourage you enough -- continue to hold tight to your convictions regarding feeling married, both in your heart and legally. There will be many ups and downs on the road ahead. Once Plan A is fully engaged, and your focus is on meeting your WW's needs, there may be times when your Taker starts nudging you, reminding you of all of your unmet needs. And the small attentions of an appreciative female, no matter how innocent, can be an invisible lure that your neglected heart will find hard to resist.

No matter what, hold fast to your marriage and press onward. You can do it!

She came over a little while ago to drop off our son for the weekend and she barely even looked at me. She said hi and bye is a happyish tone, but just walked off like I was no one.

How the hell am I supposed to try to fill any EN's if she doesn't give me the time of day.

I am ashamed to say, I have done that myself. She could either be (A) trying to get some sort of reaction out of you, or (B) not necessarily behaving that way on purpose, but she may be trying to protect herself.

MO, this is going to be tough. Buckle up. You will have more of this ahead than you know. You need to remain steadfast and calm throughout every interaction with her. I know it is raw, and it hurts. But consistency is key here. Don't force it on her, but when you do see one another, be positive. Every interaction is a building block -- don't let the lack of progress you are seeing tear you down before you even get into first gear.

Take a deep breath, and remember, you will have to see her again when she comes to pick up your son. How will you act then?

Yes, this is hard, but you can do it!

I thought of calling her just to say "I Love You" but I don't know. Maybe it's pushing it.

I think it is pushing it. You are hurt, and needing reassurance right now. It's very possible that she would sense that and consider it a sign of weakness and desperation. Which would, in turn, make you feel worse, and make her feel trapped.

Don't get me wrong--there is a time and place for telling her you love her.

Where exactly are you in Plan A?

slh

Have no idea. When she still lived here I was giving her all kinds of things to try to meet her needs. I was more attentive when she talked, I was around all the time (me always being in the game room was a BIG issue), I tried to be more affectionate, etc.

I knew she was moving out around the 1st of July so I was trying to show her how good I am and how I've changed as much as possible before hand.

Ever since that infamous Wed., things have just been all over the map.

I came on here last weekend and basically have been in exposure mode and witnessing as her and OM blasted me and everyone else on here through my thread.

I still have some exposing I need to do. I want to tell her Aunt (religious) and her sister as well as the family friend of her and her Mom that owns the house we've been renting out.

Geez! I've written at least 5 posts to you, and then my computer locks up and shuts down each time. I am so sorry.

I had a list of Plan A links that I think you would enjoy reading -- they are informative and empowering -- but as I have about a minute and a half before this computer crashes again, I am going to wait and hunt them down plus post them again another time. You may want to visit the Plan A forum and do some research on your own. Regardless, the first thing you need to know is Plan A is for YOU!

I know your son is with you this weekend; try to keep up a good outlook for him. I know it's hard.

I'm sending this off before I lose it, too!

slh

I have some Plan A stuff on the first couple of pages of my Musings thread linked in my sig line.

For an example of a long distance Plan A see Queenie's thread.

For an example of an intense and well done Plan A see TooMuchTooSoon's threads from late last fall and through early 08. Those too are linked in my Musings thread, though they are nearer the end of the thread. On pages 4, 5 and/or 6 I also have some links, a few to stuff here and some off-site links that were of help to me as well.

If you look for the notable posts/threads thread and Pep's Notable posts thread, there is some really good stuff linked in those, though a few of the links have yet to be fixed after the recent upgrade.

The Notable Posts/Threads post can be found at Notable Posts/Threads. In that post are some great links including Pep's Notable Posts. So much stuff to read you'll be here at least a year if you try to hit it all. If you find any links that are broken, you can try to find them by looking at the specific forum around the dates of the original posts or drop Justuss a line and maybe they can get fixed piecemeal, though it really takes quite a bit of work to fix them all.

I assume you have read the top few posts pinned to the top of the Just Found Out forum. If not, check them out. I refer to WAT's Quick Start Guide and Longhorn's thread.

Mark

Thanks, Mark.

I've read a couple TMTS's saga and am starting to get it a little better.

Just seems so daunting. I mean, to talk about dealing with this for 6 months to 2 years is crazy.

And to just think, it seemed I had her back. She was coming back me and was going to "break his heart" and I gave her the ULTIMATUM of he can never be a part of her life again. The boom, out the door again she went. Of course that was before I got to this site and I know it probably didn't mean it was over between them two but it was something and I feel like I blew an opportunity.

The next two weeks haven't been good. The first week was one where I reacted to not having expectations met every time she was over (again, before I came here). This week had the whole fiasco of me starting to expose (once I posted here), her coming across this site, her and OM posting and getting BASHED, and her complaining to me all week about it. But, the week ended with her handing me her ENQ.

So, a little confused. LOL!!

Her sister and BIL are in town. Her, her mom and sis quickly dropped by so my WW could give me our son for the weekend. They looked in a hurry, so I knew they would be out for a while and her BIL never goes anywhere with them. he just stays at my MIL's house. So, I drove over there and talked to him, told him of the A. Me and him have never got along very well. But, I talked things over with him, asked for his and her sis's support for both of us and shook his hand telling him I REALLY appreciate it as well how I appreciate him listening.

My WW called me asked how I got in the house (front door was unlocked and my son just opened the door, he told them I dropped by) but never asked why I was there nor acted concerned.

Hey Mo,

Glad to see you here.

Just catching up w/ your sitch.

princessmeggy,

Your thread on general II is a danger.

Esp. this part..."Lots of people were posting before it was locked on GQII."

I know what you're trying to do, but if I found it, so can his WW.

Hey, MO. Glad I found you! From what you've said, I think you have her terrified that you have this whole support system behind you, and she's just stuck floundering around like she always has. She really can't get over the Internet thing, can she?

Well, good. Let her stew. Her fear is the only thing that's going to make her willing to meet your boundaries, such as getting rid of the doofus OM.

Just keep taking the high road. As long as you do that, you'll never get messed over, kwim?

Use this time alone to do some reassessment of your life and your plans and your future and who should be in it. And, if WW should be in it, in what capacity? Get a firm picture in your mind of how you would be willing to take her back, and don't deviate from that. If worst comes to worst, the judge at your divorce trial will see what a strong, respectful, insightful person you've been.

Which brings me to your son. I suggest you spend some time trying to envision all possible outcomes of all this as regards your son. She keeps, you keep, you share, what will work? The more you've come to a decision about, the stronger you can be when you have to deal with her. Every little piece of the game she plays, just keep referring back to what you want. If what she's offering doesn't fit that picture, politely decline and tell her that won't do. You'll eventually reach at least one of your possible conclusions, for better or worse. I'm suggesting this because I want you to make the best possible decisions for your son. It's always possible that you might end up with primary custody, if your marriage doesn't work out. So it will help to know what you're willing to accept.

btw, Howdy! N, S, E, NW, NE, SW, or SE?

Good luck!

RMX, I'm in Houston, and I resemble that! lol! Houston sprawls because we haven't got so much as a hill in our city, so we might as well just keep spreading out. Oh, and keep away from Gunspoint - I mean Greenspoint! That was supposed to be our golden section, but it got filled up with apartments, the apartments got filled with low income people, the malls/homes started getting vandalized on a regular basis, and basically that entire part of town is off limits.

Anyway, *waves* Hi MenOut! I had no idea you were in Houston! Now I'm wondering if I know you guys! (yeah, right, in a city of 4 million people)

Heck yeah! The more pressure the better!

T/J

I'm heading that way in the next two weeks and i have to go back to greenspoint mall, so I'll make sure its during the day!!

You don't want to know me, I only show up when there is a computer problem, and after 3 hours on the road (I-10) I am NOT the most sociable person. LOL

End of T/J

Good job in the BIL. You are doing so well!!
Endless pressure, endlessy applied ... with grace!

I wouldnt expose unless the OMW wants too. Sounds like you are on a good path Men. As for her not saying much there could be several things going on in her mind. Especially if MB hit her that bad she might actually be considering that we arent a 'cult'

OK RMX so you me and the kids can pack up a day trip to Houston in 2 wks???? *sorry t/j*

Weird, I went back to edit it and someone had already done it for me with no notation that it had been edited. I suppose/hope it was the mods.

BTW, I emailed OMW again, told her everything I know as well as what OM posted in my original thread (with a link if she wanted to read herself). I only suggested she take action so that her kids don't continue to get involved in their affair.

I'm also going to email my MIL with the same info.

I keep going back in my mind to the phone convo I had with MIL to expose. She tells she only thought they were good friends but, when I made some comment how WW has lied to both of us she responds with, "No, she hasn't lied." Then I say, for us to work on our marriage, things have to end with them. She responds with, "I don't know how she can give up that friendship."

When I mentioned the A to her BIL, he didn't act shocked which was surprising. He just went, "Ah."

Oh, lived in Sugar Land all my life and now in Missouri City.

MO,

It's not unusual for the in-laws to want to make their children "happy" and to go along with the affair. Too often they have absolutely NO backbone. Sorry that's happening to you. Try not to get into anymore arguments with her, though, because she will change her stripes right back again when your marriage is recovered - and she will be ashamed at her position at that point. Then, the three of you will have to sit down and have a talk about what happened and work out the problem at some point down the road. MIL can't see that right now, but all too often we do see it here at MB.

Your WW is playing out the usual script. She doesn't want to give up the "friendship". The lie about it not being a PA is just that - a LIE. She can't believe that you told on her, and she is absolutely freaking out.

See, WW has told her mom that she and OM are just friends, mom wants to believe that, and so MIL is on WW's side. MIL wants her baby to be happy!!! And her baby hasn't actually "cheated" on you - they are only "friends"!!!! At least that's what your WW has told her. Now that you have exposed, your WW is trying to go around and clean up the mess.

Only she is freaking out because she cannot unring the bell.

She KNOWS people will never believe her lie - that she lied about having sex to pi$$ you off. PUHLEASE. That is SO high school. She has regressed in maturity at least 10 years and you can tell her I said so, and no, I don't have to know anyone personally to see that kind of BS (and I don't mean betrayed spouse!).

Stick with Plan A. wait it out, because the panic you are seeing is also typical!


SB

Man, put my son to bed tonight and nearly lost it.

I laid with him in his bed for a little while, he laid in my arm, his head on my shoulder and I was telling him how sorry I was that he was going through all of this. I told him that I will fix it, mark my word.

But, I nearly lost it when telling him that. I was half heart-broken and half PISSED off at her for what she is doing. I got to a point I almost said f-it, I'm just going to just divorce her and get full custody of our son and be done with it all. As heart-broken as I am over what I'm going through, it's 10x more for what he must be going through in all of this.

I'll give him this, he is a STRONG kid, especially being only 4 yrs. old, and I admire him for it.

Welcome back, Mo. I was apprehensive about posting to you because I fear your WW or the OM would watch who I post to in attempt to find the new you. But I just had to respond today.

Take your anger and your hurt and MAN UP for your son. Transfer that negative energy into postive actions and plans. You are the only sane person in this situation. The only one who can protect him. He needs a hero and I vote its you.

You've already shown great strength and calm (like father like son) where most have buckled to their knees. Its time you layout a plan and follow it. Reacting to emotions will get you nowhere, and will leave you AND YOUR SON a victim.

Have you read all about Plan A? Have you read the "Carrot and the Stick of Plan A" yet?

BTW: Have you changed ALL your email passwords and locked down your computers yet (Login & IDSID PWs)? Please do so. I wouldn't assume certain folks don't know your PWs, esp after the recent show of interest in your actvities here.

Yea, it was a brief moment a felt like that. I said I NEARLY broke down. I didn't because my son didn't need to see it.

I haven't been able to find the "Carrot" deal you've mentioned but I've read some of Mark's stuff and I'm understanding it a lot better. I just have to make myself the man she's always wanted me to be.

Funny thing is, I bought an PDF book about marital crisis, separation, infidelity, etc online a few weeks ago (by Nancy Wasson PhD) and it basically was telling me the same sort of stuff which I was following. I've done A LOT of self revelation through all of this and realized things I needed to be better in as a man, husband and father. So, I've really concentrated on that stuff. But hey, sometimes the situation gets to me.

I even bought a dry erase board a few weeks ago to hang over my desk. I wrote "My Goals" on the top and have key points under it. It's one way to keep me focused. This is one half of it...

1A) Successful, Happy Marriage
a) Listen, listen, listen
b) The small things matter the most
c) Be there emotionally
d) Find quality time together every day

2A) Be A Better Me
a) Positive, Confident, Happy, More Spontaneous
b) Less dependent on others
c) Take care of myself (physically and health-wise)
d) Control my emotions

3A) Be A Better Father
a) Accept him for who he is
b) Learn more about autism
c) Do more with him every day
d) Teach, teach, teach

4A) Be More Religious
a) Have more faith
b) Attend church more

The other half will be more job, financial stuff or what not, but I haven't done it yet.

But, I get it. Show her I'm the best man she can find to meet all her needs without doing anything emotional that will scare her off. That way, when the fog lifts, she knows exactly where to go to. Do I have it right?

Has anyone heard of Mort Fertel?

I bought an audio set from him online that is about saving your marriage, even if only one spouse listens and/or follows it even in the midst of an affair. I paid a lot of money for it and wonder if I should just return it and get my money back. But, if he is pretty good, I may just decide to keep it and give it a listen.

Apparently he's been all over NBC, Fox News and bunch of magazines.

I'll tell you though, this has not been my year. LOL!!!

I had knee surgery on Jan. 2nd which recovery has been A LOT longer than I expected. I never really get sick, but I've had like 3-4 BAD sicknesses this year already. Then, the very next morning after my beloved, Yao-less Rockets get ousted in the playoffs, she comes to me and tells me she's not happy and thinks we should divorce. A week later I find the emails between her and OM and it's been hell since.

That IS alot to go thru, Mo. The adultery alone can be debiltating. But thats why you need a plan, and follow it. Your list above looks good and like the Plan A part where you're working on being the "BEST YOU" you can be.

I'll go dig up the "The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A", so you can read it.

Be back in a few.

Here ya go: The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A

Thanks Resilient

Well, she came by this morning to pick up our son. Just seems so uncomfortable. As much as I want to Plan A her socks off, I'm trying to fully wake up and I really don't know what to say to her right now anyway. We chit-chatted a little but it was small talk.

The next time I will probably see or hear from her will probably be Wed night when she drops our son off to me.

Hard to Plan A when I barely see her and, when I do, it just seems uncomfortable between us because of everything that has happened in my original thread.

MO,

The small talk is enough for now.

Many BS try to discuss the hard issues and work on recovery while in Plan A. Plan A is supposed to try to SAVE the marriage, not fix it. If you don't save it, you can't fix it and you can't save it by fixing it...

Your goal in Plan A should be to show WW how you have changed, not tell her, but show her. You should focus on her seeing that at home with YOU is better than being in her affair with OM. In order to do that, she has to want to spend time with you. That time needs to be enjoyable and not stressful for her.

If every discussion is about the affair, how it has to end, how she has hurt you and how she needs to "make up her mind" then she will NOT enjoy being with you.

Discussing normal everyday stuff is what her EN of conversation is all about anyway. That and O&H are probably two things near the top of her EN list. SF and RC might top YOUR list, but for her conversation, affection and O&H are probably much more important.

Have you read Dr Harley's article about Why Women Leave Men? He xplains that women often feel isolated from their husbands because we as men tend to compartmentalize too much. We have work, recreational activities and hobbies, the kids and our relationship with HER. We keep each of these spearate in our daily lives which makes her feel that we are only sharing a small part of ourselves with her.

One of the hardest lessons I ever learned was to listen to my wife when she was talking about her day and then to share back with her the trivial stuff of my own day rather than trying to solve her problems for her. She doesn't want me to fix it; she only wants me to hear about it.

Try to keep your conversations with her enjoyable. Talk about your son and how you played with him while she was gone. Don't tell her about how sad he was or how sad you were, just tell her how much fun it was to be with him.

Maybe try to plan something to do with your sn, even if it is only going out for pizza or something and invite HER to join the two of you. Make her time with you something she desires.

And if she doesn't bite right away and doesn't suddenly stop the affair and come home, don't stop what you are doing. Pile those rocks up in the water until you can see them. They ARE making a difference; you just can't see them yet.

Mark

OK, let me get some clarification.

I really think my son should live with me. Just because she decided to move to her Mom's doesn't automatically give her the right to uplift our son from his home.

BUT, what realistic boundaries can I set?

I mean, I'm feeling it should be like full custody to where he sleeps in his home EVERY night and, if she wants to take him anywhere, she must tell me what and where and what time he'll be back, etc.

Obviously, the OM being around my son is NOT an option and I will tell her that I will take necessary steps to secure that.

Thoughts and opinions?

That is a boundary. Not letting the OM near your son. You and her NEED to talk about when each has the child what and what is not allowed at the moment with everything going on. She atleast OWES you that respect.

I wouldnt let her up and move your son at this moment. His world is upside down and not understanding what is going on.

BTW, how is your son with all this?

And besides this how are you doing?

Well, she up and moved him weeks ago. I've had him a couple a nights a week. This last weekend was the first time I had him for a weekend.

I think he needs stability right now and I think he needs to be sleeping at his home EVERY night. She's not going to like that as she acts as if this situation is as if we're divorced where we have joint custody and he goes back and forth between nights and weekends.

He seems to be handling it fine from what I can tell. Although, with his autism, even though a mild case, he doesn't talk or express himself as much so it's hard to tell.

Me, I'm up and down. For some reason yesterday I was a mess. I had to hold myself back from crying quite a few times throughout the work day. When I got home and saw the mess my son left behind from the weekend, I broke down. I looked at all the pictures of him, pictures of her and, especially, pictures of us as a family; I couldn't keep it from flowing. LOL!!!

I just keep reading posters on here talking about how this is a "marathon", how this could be anywhere from 6 months to 2 years before she wakes up and ends all of this. I just don't know if I can deal with this hurt of not having my family for much longer, let alone 6-24 more months.

How old is your son? Is he suffering a lot? If so, you might want to consider getting a lawyer to get him moved back to his home. Without a legal agreement of some sort, it's hard to enforce anything.

He's 4.

Well, like I said, I haven't seen any suffering though I'm not at her Mom's house when he's there. I know he's pretty comfortable there. But, I never like the fact she was taking him from his home. I mean, this is where his room and bed is, etc.

I "compromised" only because they took care of him during the day anyway (take him to school, pick him up, etc.).

But, I still hate that he's been uplifted from HIS home through all of this. I'm sure, in his head, he's probably confused as to why he's barely seen his two parents together in months and now he's pretty much living out of Gram's house.

Hey MO.

It sounds like you've been busy! Keep up the good work. Mark has been giving you excellent advice! It's funny, most of the links I wanted to refer you to later last week (when my computer kept crashing) were ones he had in his sig line.

Do you feel more confident in dealing with your WW now, that you have all of this knowledge behind you?

It works, it really does!

slh

BTW, MO, I wanted to address this:


YES! I agree that your son should still be living in his home, with you. The insecurity of being 4 is tough enough without being autistic, and experiencing the upheaval of your family being torn apart, on top of that. Is his autism severe?

Plan Aing while trying to regain custody can be difficult when there are still so many raw wounds that haven't begun to be addressed. I'm not sure where the Harley's stand on this, to be honest. But you can do this. It will take supreme self-control and patience on your part. Your wife will try her dangdest to punish you for this. She will rant and rave and scream at you. She will view your attempts at trying to get your son back under your roof as attacks against her, attacks against her capability as a Mother, and accuse you of trying to hurt her. But in the end, moving out was her decision. She chose to leave; she should not be allowed to tear the rest of the family apart as well.

In the face of all of these attacks, you must remain steadfast and calm. You will need to reiterate that you want your family back together again. You need to remind her that you only have your son's best interests at heart, and that you are trying to do what's best for him. Always speak calmly and deliberately when dealing with your WW on this issue, repeating that you only want your family back together again.

However -- If you don't think that going after custody while Plan A-ing is the best route for you, then AT LEAST go on record as being concerned about your Son's welfare. Does he attend to a city-run school with a counselor that you can make an appt with, or have a social worker that you could speak to? You may want to share your situation -- the bare bones of it -- and ask what their opinions regarding it are. Chances are, they will side with the BS's (your) attempts to restore some semblance of normalcy to your son's life by bringing him home (and, by doing so, keep notes of your appt with them, and your interest in your son's well-being). I am concerned that your lack of "fighting" (for lack of a better word) for custody of your son, though you are only trying to maintain peace with your WW, may appear that you are disinterested (to the courts, should it ever proceed that far). Insure yourself against this now, if you can, if you have any hope of attaining custody (or even substantial partial custody) of your son.

the key, throughout every interaction you ever have with WW, is to remain calm, respectful, and steadfast -- even when she becomes irate and vengeful. It is not an act, it is a way of life that we, as spouses, need to aspire to behave and BECOME.

You can do it, MO.

MenOut:

About this:


Understand ONE thing.

Your WW adultery and moving out will mean NOTHING in the courtroom.

Your allowing your SON to live whereever, and to be there, and then accepting every other week end and one night a week at YOUR home, will be looked at in the courts as an "agreement" between you two, and then written into the seperation agreement/divorce decree.

At that point, your screwed.

So, make the claim for FULL Custody. In your HOME. Demonstrate your ability to get YOUR child to Daycare each day. Even if that daycare is with MIL.

That is rather harsh. BUT, if you don't get WHAT YOU want in writing, early on in the process, the courts will always look at the "agreements" that you two have seemed to make as the way it will be going forward.

LG

This is exactly what I meant. You have to go on record as against this, legally. Screw how she feels about it. You're protecting your son, whether he's 'ok' with it or not. He's 4. You're about to let him start being around OM, and that is the single most likely situation for children to be abused, physically and sexually.

Thanks for the advice everyone.

StillLoving, we've been told it's a mild case of autism. But, he's 4 and doesn't talk, use utensils and is not potty trained. So, he's not your 'normal' kid at that age.

About having him live here, I believe it's the right thing to do. She's living over there, taking care of her Mom who's had two foot surgeries, and she's barely bringing in any money because she doesn't have a job at all.

Well, talked to her on the phone for a good two hours.

Casual talk at first. She asked about some stuff with me. I made a point to ask about some stuff going on in her life. She went on and on and on and on about how much her and my son do together. All the things they do, what all they do at bath time, how much progress he is making in different aspects, how much she is doing to get him into his school for the fall, etc. She goes on and on about how her whole life revolves around him. How happy he is when he is there (she did follow it up with that he is very happy here with me as well).

It made feel like s*** to think of making him live with me. It made me feel mad and sad that I don't get that same type of interaction with him. I mean, she talks about him coming over here as "visits".

It came up that I'm thinking of joining a basketball league and/or a bowling league. She says, "Trying to keep yourself busy?" Me: "Yea, trying to. I don't have a family to keep me busy anymore. (laugh)" Her: "You didn't have a family to keep you busy before because you were always in the game room! You're computer was always keeping you busy!"

She asks if if I want our son Thurs. as well (I'll have him Wed.), I responded with, "Sure, I'll take him anytime I can get him." Her: "Stop saying that." Me: "I didn't mean anything by it, I just miss my son."

I mentioned to her I'm not happy with this situation at all. I don't like that he has been uplifted from his home, not dogging her decision, but I just don't agree with it. She goes on about how a home is not a room or house, but it's the love of the people inside. She thinks he has three homes, here, her Mom's and my parent's because of the love from those that live there. She talks about how he has been at her Mom's almost every day the last year or so because her Mom, baby-sitting, would take him over there for most of the day. I said I understand, but I'm just not happy with this whole situation. Her: "Well, I'm not happy with this whole situation either."

I said (calmly), "Well, you decided to move out." Her, "You pushed me out!" "You broke my heart time and time again. I would mend it and it would be broken again. It finally got to a point that it finally shattered to a million pieces and couldn't be put together again." She brought up some stuff that were big issues with her and I told her I agree.

She tells me how interesting it is that I wanted to make all these changes once she told me she wanted out. That, had she not told me that, I would still be doing the same things. She also said that I was only doing these changes and so on just out of competition where I'm pretty much saying, "If I can't have her, no one will!"

I told her that she should give me a little more credit but, sure, it was like a bucket of water poured on my head that made me realize how serious things were, what I was doing wrong in the marriage and I needed to show you that I'm wanting to change. She said, "I'm not asking you to change." I think that's when she said that it's at a point that it's too little too late.

I told her my number one priority every day, whether she sees it or not, is to fight to save my family. That I still love her and our son and I work every day to save our family. Whether it's working on myself, the house or whatever, that's what I do.

I told her thank you for filling out the ENQ. I said she didn't have to, so I thank her. She said she just did it on a whim. She said I wondered why she walked out the door, well there is why I helped her out the door. She asked what I was going to do with it, keep it or burn it. I said I don't know, but it sits on my desk and I look through it every so often to refresh myself on what it said.

She asks me if I'm planning to go to any Rocket games this season. The last two seasons, we have had mini-season ticket plans (last year our son came with us). I said I wasn't sure. Her, "Well, I didn't know if you were going to go with (my brother) & SIL." Me: "Well, I'm still holding out hope I can go with my wife and son." Her: "You can take our son, as long as you bring him back in one piece." Me: "Well, I'm still holding out hope to go with my wife." She didn't respond.

I mean, she talks as if there is absolutely no hope. When she moved out, I got the impression that it would be a month, maybe two and she would come back. But, she talks as if she will be gone forever. I almost just wanted to ask her, "If you feel that way, why don't you file for the divorce then?!"

A couple of weeks ago, I actually saw hope. I saw her really contemplating whether to come back to me or not. How true it was, I don't know, but it looked like hope. Now, I hear nothing. I hear all talk as if the divorce is final already.

I HATE THIS!!!! and I have to deal with this for how long? I can't take it anymore!!! I want my family back so bad and I REALLY hate not seeing either every day when i get up in the morning or get home from work. Especially my son, I miss them both so much, but I REALLY can't stand not being with him.

The more and more I think about it, the more and more I get pissed off at her "holier than now" mother attitude. Like, she's the greatest thing in our son's life and everyone, including me, is secondary.

Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if I'm a notch below her Mom.

Her
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And OM probably goes somewhere in between me and my Mom. Just assumptions on my part the way she talks. Just pisses me off.

Something you have to understand is that you have to be able to keep up Plan A at least for a while before any good can come from it. I can see progress in your exchange with your wife, but you tried to FIX stuff during your conversation with her. You wanted her to come home. You expected her to cave in.

Your expectations bit you and made your hope vanish. You began with a good exchange between you, but when the topic turned to how miserable all of this is, that was when things quickly went down hill. I'm not saying you can't approach hard subjects, just that you can't work on fixing the marriage until she agrees to work on it.

When she speaks of you spending all your time on the computer, listen to that, it has validity. She felt neglected and ignored. When OM came along, those feelings were magnified a thousand times because he was not ignoring her while you were. Even if it only happened one night, that validated her feelings about it, at least in her mind.

If you get her back, THAT is the kind of thing you have to change.

But to get her back, you have to remain in control of your emotions while talking with her. Make those deposits without expecting anything at all back from her. NOTHING you will say or do will suddenly trigger her to begin crying and begging to return. THAT ain't gonna happen. Look at your conversation and see where it was lost. Examine where it was YOU lost it and your anger began to surface. See where SHE stopped being calm and began to raise her voice.

"Doctor! Doctor! It hurts when I do this..."

And the doctor says...

"So don't do this..."

Mark

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She had a job when she was with you, right? So now she gets to live with mom for free, no job, gets to play with your son all day. Of course she likes it there.

Women are very slow to trust; it's in our nature from caveman days. So you need to keep in mind this is a marathon, not a sprint. Show her consistent change, a change in your whole perspective, not specific acts you think will make a point. I know it's hard, but keep trying to take the high road.

delete

delete

Well, he is also VERY happy at home, isn't he?

Semantics.

delete

So your discussing your marital issues with someone of the opposite sex?

Look, you never really respond to my posts anyways, so you probably wouldn't notice if i threw my hands up and walked away from this thread.

I'll say it one more time with my baseball bat in my hands. Stay away from women. Stop playing with fire.

If you don't like what I said, politely ask me to leave and I will.



Did you compliment her? Just curious.. Plan A, Plan A, Plan A


I'll post later, but you should really avoid the R talk.


Don't front to your family anymore, no matter how many grey hairs you may get in the years to come, she'll always see her little boy.


Hey if you need someone to talk to, we are all here for you.

If you're fat and want to be skinny, find out what skinny people do and do that...

If you're trying to save your marriage, _____________. (Fill in the blank)

Follow Dr Harley's plans. Skip the psychobabble and the pop-psychology and the advice of those who gave up on their marriage without trying MB methods. This stuff works...

IF you actually do it...

Mark

Explain again why you didn't expose her affair to everyone?

One thing you dont need to do is get caught up talking to the opposite sex *unless family related* about ANYTHING at this moment.

You are in a very emotional state right now. And that is a dangerous thing to do.

I wouldnt bring up the game again to your WW since you have opened the door already too it. I would work on improving yourself and put fourth your plans.

Parents always see thru our pain. And one thing is something bothering you, do not be ashamed by it. Stop the fronts and acts. Let your feelings be known.

M you know she will tell you anything and everything right now to try and get on your nerves. Do not think shes out of the fog. And do not think the OM is out of her life.

Shes freeloading off her mom and enjoying it all. Shes trying to convience herself that her son is happy right where he is. And it almost just ALMOST sounds like shes gonna try and put your son between you two.

Yes bad days and good days will happien. convos as if nothing happiend will take place but this did happien it has to be worked on.

delete

Remind me again, have you sent a NC letter, removed all access to OM, all that jazz, or is she still contacting him?

delete

delete

A NC letter? That's the first time I've heard of that.

No, not that I'm around her much at all these days, but I know she hasn't removed access to OM. If anything, she's just going to keep saying he is a REAL GOOD friend.

You don't know what a NC letter is? Have you even read the stuff here about how to stop an affair? I'm beginning to think not, since you're not really doing any of it.

This stuff works. IF you follow the plan. If you do little bits and pieces here and there and try to cause as little pain and stress to everyone, you'll get just what you deserve: an ex-wife and living without your son.

I'm sorry if you think that's rude, but I can't believe you'd not take the stuff here seriously, and determine that you can figure out a better way to handle it, since your situation's so much different from everyone else's - NOT.

OF COURSE she's still seeing him, then. Why shouldn't she? You're doing nothing about it, she gets to quit work and have someone else pay for her, her mom is probably glad to have her baby and grandbaby back home, she gets courted by you AND OM, and the only one getting screwed over here is you. By YOUR choice.

*sigh*

I'm taking this stuff VERY seriously. Maybe I'm not looking in the right directions. I don't know. I know my situation is not different than any others. And, you're not rude. Thank you for your straight-forward advice. I guess I just went with just stuff people posted in my two threads and didn't enough of my own digging on the site.

Good to hear. Please do start reading; it's from the Harleys, so it'll be much more succinct, accurate advice. And the NUMBER ONE thing it ALL tells you is that you will NEVER get your marriage back if you don't stop the affair. By exposing. And if exposing doesn't work, find another way. Be mean, be rude, be overbearing if you have to. You have the RIGHT and a DUTY to be mad about this and to demand that she stop the affair. We're not supposed to use the word demand, but you have to find a way to make it so darned uncomfortable for her to remain in it that she gives it up. Or he does. If no one else will help you, take time off work, and start following her (or him). Show up at each place they go to. Go up to her in public and say 'W, what are you doing here with another man than me? Why don't you come home?'

Embarrass the heck out of them. (but don't stalk; she can call the police for that) Make it miserable to get together.

Click on the Q & A Columns link, then click on How to survive Infidelity and start reading. You'll be glad you did.

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I can't recommend lying. If you want to hire a PI, do it. Otherwise, when she finds out you didn't do that, it leaves her room to doubt that you are doing the other things you say you are doing... like your willingness to make positive, lasting, changes. Dishonesty is a Love Buster, no matter who is doing it.

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Exposure is free and cutting off resources that enable the affair (cell phone if you are paying for it, giving her spending money, etc) saves money rather than depletes it.

I hear that sometimes. And usually someone comes back with: Is your marriage the most important thing in your life? Then accord it the importance it needs by finding the resources to do what you have to do to preserve it or at least fight for it.

This thread may help you too.

The carrot and the stick of plan A

You put you have not be strong in exposing the A. GET ON THE BALL and expose. Stop putting it off. DO IT NOW. Call everyone and anyone you two know your neighbors if you guys talk. Just get it out there.

If you been reading, re-read it again and again. Get it soaked in. Get your plan A in motion. Stick to it.You need to work on YOU.

You know you have every right to keep your son at home with you, right. You want your son. Put your foot down. Find a sitter *home daycares tend to be cheaper* Get to work.

I dont like hearing you talk deperessed and thats what you are doing. You need to be more aggressive in this. IF YOU WANT TO SAVE YOUR M.

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I remember that strong person a week ago. Had a plan started, he started telling people. He was working on a plan for himself and his son. And even though you are hurting and feeling like you were hit by a mac truck you need to keep going.

Yes see what you can do with a RO against OM that he cant be near your son or you. That would very much help. Along with other questions. Sit down and write a series of them out to take with you. Most lawyers will do a free consoltation *sp*

Does your job pay you enough to get a place of your own. Even a 1 bedroom apartment? I would start thinking along those lines just in case if your MIL and friend decide to pull a quick one on you. I believe by law they have to give a 30 day notice to evic if you have a lease drawn up on the house.

Most importantly you do not need to talk to the opposite sex about your M problems. That is asking for trouble like RMX said.

On the autistic level how strong is it? I have child with aspengers syndrom which is a level of autisim. We had a rough time when he was younger.

I make enough to buy my own house, but we have debt up the ***. Between our debt consolidation bill and other bills, my paycheck is dry as a bone.

Well, we are not really under a lease. We had a lease we signed for the first year but nothing has been done since because, I guess, we are like family and were keeping up with the rent.


Yea, I hear ya. I just don't have any guy friends, especially any guys I know that I can talk about this stuff to. The most supportive and best friends I've had through this process has been a few of the female co-workers I have (16 of 20 employees here are women). But, I completely understand. Thanks


I don't remember the name they labeled him but it's supposed to be a mild case. He's 4, barely talks, is not potty-trained and doesn't use utensils yet. So, most daycares have frowned about all that stuff. But, he's VERY clever.

So what is it you do for a living? If its IT, what exactly is your specialty?


Do you work for yourself or someone else?

Also, I have a radical suggestion.

You have to "show" change to your spouse.... Have you ever considered changing the computer room to something else?

Do you own a laptop?

ouch debt CONsolidation you mean???

You said WW did the EN questionair right? What knowledge have you gained from it? Have you done yours and given it to her? Yes you might question what is the point if this is happiening. The point is to TRY and get to her.

All children with disabilites are very smart. My oldest put a computer together the wrong way at age 2. By age 4 he did it correctly!!! Your son will improve but the behaviors he seeing between mom and dad will not help him. She needs to see that regardless if shes showing hes happy. Im sure he would be more happy with two parents then one. So talk to your lawyer. She is the WS that your child does not need to be around. YOU can provide for her. Shes unstabble and doesnt work. YOU work. YOU pay the bills. Oh and what bills are you two tied in together with? If you pay her cellphone bill that your name is on. Do not pay it anymore.

I'm Production Manager of a publishing company. We do a series of monthly magazines in and around the city, plus a bunch of other side magazines.

Actually, I kind of did that suggestion when she FIRST moved out. Her computer desk is in what is supposed to be our formal dining room. Well, I moved my desk, computer and everything into there also, rearranged the desks, have it set up nicely with her desk, my son's desk and computer and my desk and computer all lined up down the wall. She came the next day, saw it and was floored. That infamous Wed. she came back saying she wants to move back in, she said that was one reason she said she came back because it was an action and not just words.

I haven't done anything to the room since. It's just a mess full of stuff. There is no reason to go in there at all. I told her, when I moved my desk out, that I was going to make it a family play room. But, i haven't touched it in weeks. It's just such a mess and a daunting task by myself. I've tried to think of other things I can convert it to that she would like (maybe her own personal office or a play area for our son with all his toys). I don't know.

Well do something with that room. Go guy some white paper, let your son put handprints all over it and hang it on the wall.
and get that playroom done soon!!

The reason I asked is I'll bet she hates your computer, and that room. She probably has alot of anger towards that room. I asked if you had a laptop is so you could box up all your computer stuff into a closet somewhere hidden, and just whip out the notebook when you want to get online.

You have already done (mostly) what I was about to suggest in regards to the computer room.

Actions speak louder words.

If that would reach out to her busy yourself with it. Make it your goal to set you the house for you, your WW, and your son. Yes her being short convo lately in person makes it hard to show it that way but do other things that will touch her and hit home on her.

So Im sure you are either at work or at home. But here is the task you have at hand.

1. Talk to a lawyer about what needs to be covered
2. Do the full exposure regardless what she and others are saying. *YOU need to do it for YOU*
3. Work on your EN. This will also open your eyes too.
4. Work on things for your home such as the room. Think to yourself you are doing this for your son.
5. Meet some guys and hang out. What interests do you like? Take up something that is going to keep you busy as well. Always make time for your son but you also need to work on yourself too.

Im sure theres more but this is to cover what is at the top of my head. Start doing instead of saying. You have come a good way so far and I know you can keep going. Listen to whoever else posts and take it in.

Which state do u live in btw? Some states help with disabled children in daycares etc...

I have an assignment for you. Think about the people you have for neighbors. Pick one, and go meet them. Introduce yourself. Stand out in the street and talk; bring lawn chairs out and talk; or invite them in for some iced tea. You have a great opportunity here to make some changes. And a strong support system is a must. Make some friends!

I agree get to know people. Have bbq's at the park with your son!!!

Well, this consolidation actually has been quite good for us. I know most are very bad. I'm looking into alternatives because I can't stomach the $800+ a month they automatically take out of my account, UGH!!!

About the ENQ. I read a lot of what I already had a pretty good idea about. Nothing in there was that bad and easily fixable IMO. She gave it to me and then, a couple of days later, told me she just wanted to tell me how I pushed her out the door and filled it out on a whim. Do y'all want me to post what she had?

I sort of filled mine out. So much has gone on in the last few months, that I was having a hard time remembering how our marriage was before all of this. She did read what I filled out and got mad at it. She went to her own cell phone company a few months ago.

Well, I have a bad feeling she's been reading this thread. She just called me and yelled at me thinking I did something to stop her from getting online and seeing our bank account. Which I didn't.

But, she says she has a gut feeling I'm trying to do something behind her back. She asks if I've lied about anything this past week she's asked me about. The ONLY thing I've lied about has been if I've posted on this site anymore.

Yeah that is alot of debt to be paying them 800. How much longer do you have on it? Have you read or heard of Dave Ramsey? Hes great about getting things going. I have followed his ways before and succeeded. I am trying to reimplement the techniques again because we feel off the wagon.

So what if your WW got mad at your answers. Its to show what you need and what she needs. Hence Emotional needs questionair.

When do you get to see your son?

You need to get her off your acct. She has no right to it if she moved away from you. If she needs money for your son then she can come directly to you.

So what if shes reading this thread. So what if you are here. She doesnt rule you Men. You are a person who wants seek and needs advice. If shes reading this again then be it. So what. If she gets upset at reading this its only cause she sees the truth and its bothering her to no ends.

I know, it just feels like an invasion of privacy. I wasn't a fly on the wall hearing everything she has confided to her friends and Mom about me or our marriage, nor have I asked her what she has told them. She feels like I'm only telling "my side" of the truth on here, but what was what she told everyone?

He lives in that city I was just at 2 weeks ago APF. Not the ones in the valley either, the first trip.

I was probably in his area too as I was tearing around all over town in the rental car.

and his wife lives in the city i was in yesterday.

Does she really drive that long to and from your city to hers that often?

I read what your WW and the OM posted to everyone. And that was a crazy time. It goes to show you that shes in her own world.

The more we talk the more I have in my head going over and over. Theres alot of work to be done. Re read your original thread on what Marsh, Melody, and all the others have said. Get yourself together Men. You can. If you want something badly enough then advance towards it.

RMX remind me where which plan do you cut the other off financially in? Cant Men do it now since WW doesnt have a job and Men can set up another way to help with his son?

In the Superbowl of 2007, my Chicago Bears played the Colts of Indy.

The opening kick-off was run back for a touchdown. (Why do these guys still kick the ball to Devon Hester?) How did the Colts respond?

They came out and executed THEIR game plan. They didn't abandon their plan, but executed it with precision. They made only one real adjustment; they quit kicking the ball to Hester...

Plan A is...

Meet her ENs as much as she allows.
Avoid all love busters.
Expect NOTHING from her in return.


You do the above three things and you should make deposits into her Love Bank and avoid withdrawals from it due to love busters. The result of that will be that her feelings for you WILL begin to return.

Don't work on communications exercises with her.
Don't have constant talks about the relationship.
Don't keep telling her how hurt you are.
Don't negotiate the break-up of your marriage at all.

Meet her ENs.
Avoid Love Busters.
Expect NOTHING form her in return.

Do this for one month and reevaluate if needed.

Keep up exposure, but spend NO time talking recovery with an actively wayward wife.

Never try to teach a pig to dance.

It wastes your time and annoys the pig.

Never try to educate a wayward.

Same reasons...

Learn about reverse babble.

She says: "I'm tired of living like this."
You say: "Me too. I'm fixing potroast for dinner. Want to stay and have some?"

She says: "I want a divorce."
You say: "I don't want a divorce. You'll have to talk about that with my lawyer. I just got the best vanilla ice cream. Want some?"

She says: "Why won't you just let me go?"
You say: "I'm trying to keep my family intact. I found this really good Cabernet for 5 bucks a bottle. Want to try some?"

No matter what she does, you...

Meet her ENs.
Avoid love busters...

Have NO expectations...


Mark

Well, when she had her full-time job making some money, we were looking at another year maybe two. I'll look up Dave Ramsey. Thanks

No, I understand her getting mad. I was just telling you what happened. I was planning to re-fill it out but just haven't got to it yet.

I usually have gotten him a couple a night during the work week. Granted, a couple of nights I'm coaching a YMCA youth basketball team. This last weekend was the first that I had him for a weekend.

TY Mark!

So Mark

How does all that go though if you feel you have to do something legal for the child and you know it could tun into a court battle?

Or do you recommend not going the legal route that might interfere with Plan A?

Or what would be YOUR recommendation on handling this?

I would love it if he lived in HIS home, not her Mom's and if she wanted to take him anywhere or do anything with him (because I fear she will take him around the OM) that I have to know who, what, when, where and how.

No matter what, I am getting a RO against the OM on my son's behalf.

getting a RO on the OM for when your son is around is not a bad thing Men. Its showing you do not trust this guy for what hes done to you and your family. That you care deeply what goes on around your child.

But will you honestly know that hes not around him even with the RO in place? Do you have family/friends that will tell you if hes in the picture?

Are you going to finish exposing your WW to everyone? Its not about exposing to a small group. Its to EVERYONE. So what if your WW is babbling about people already knowing. I doubt they know it all.

I have forgotten what has made the WW stray?

You mean what caused her to have the A or why she decided to move out?

The funny thing about the exposure, I called asking if I can get the number of a couple of people - the family friend of her and her Mom that owns the house I live in and the woman that handles all his affairs including the house. Now, I've been wanting these phone numbers since she moved out so that, if something happens with the property, i can call one or both of them. heck, we've had sewage problems off and on since we've lived there.

She asks me what's the REAL reason I want the numbers. She says it seems all I keep doing is telling everyone about her life.... and they already know. She starts asking me (sarcastically of course) if I wanted anyone else's number, like her other best friend, etc.

I guess to both.

Why is she having the A?
Why did she move out?

Does she have an address book somewhere among the things she left behind? Paperwork filed somewhere where there might be any info to get these numbers? Do you know there full names to look them up in the directory/phone book? Before she got her new phone carrier with the cell can you look into the old ones and find numbers call them and see how they know your WW and if they say a friend then expose.

I can't answer why she's having the affair. There was neglect, lack of communication and affection. There was some selfishness on my part and I was going through somewhat of a depression for the year or two before all of this, but I didn't know it at the time.

She moved out she says to get clarity.


Well, i don't know what is up, whether she has read this thread or what. I called her to let her know I'm home (she was coming to drop off our son for the night), she didn't pick up and I left a message. She drove up no more than a minute later. I acted cheerful the whole time. I said, "I JUST left you a message." She acted like she never heard the phone. Usually, when she drops him off, she sticks around for a while and we talk. She came right in and started saying goodbye to him. I asked, "Oh, you're leaving already?" Her: "Yes." I said, "I'm making sloppy joes, playing some video games of his, gonna have some fun, you're welcome to join us." She just walks by with this face and says, "No thanks." I asked, "Are you OK, is something wrong?" Her: "No." and walked right out.

So, not sure what to make of all of that. If she read this thread, she knows I've at least considered seeing what options there are of getting our son back in the home. She would also know I lied to her when she asked if I have posted on here and I said no. I KNOW lying is a big LB, and I HATE lying to her at all, but I didn't want her to pry in a place I feel like I should have some privacy.

If it's not about the thread, I have no clue what it could be. I tried to get on our bank account this morning and couldn't get in, pswd wasn't working. I didn't know she made two different users (1 for me and 1 for her) to see our accounts. Anyway, somehow me trying and failing logging on, which I didn't know was HER username, messed up the system or something and she couldn't get on later. So, she called me, jumping down my throat as if I was locking her out on purpose. This is after I asked her earlier for those phone numbers, so she was grilling me on if I'm trying to do something behind her back.

I have no clue.

Not blaming this board AT ALL, but ever since I've posted here things have gone backwards. LOL!!!

Well just enjoy your time with your son. Did u set up an appt to talk about legal rights and what not pertaining to him? I wish you could find someone to take care of him while you were at work. Maybe do some postings at the library for p/t daycare and set it up??? Theres alot to consider right now Men. And it depends on which road you take.

Do you know of anyone in the neighborhood with a kid your sons age? maybe get to know them and do play dates? Get to know people around you if you do not already!

Have fun with your son!

So, for some reason putting my son to bed is my favorite part of the time he stays with me. I guess because it's just us, son and father, no TV, no computer, just us.

So, after I read to him, I've been laying with him a while lately. Normally, he will just lay there and then, at some point, he'll roll over to and let you know he's ready to be tucked in and go to sleep (meaning, get out! LOL!) But, tonight he wanted to be close. He kept rolling over to where he would snuggle up to me for a while. Then, he just decided to roll over on top of me, head on my chest, he pulled my arms to be around him and he's snoring within 2 minutes. I just laid there for a good 20 minutes, rubbing his back and head, not wanting to interrupt his sleep.

Since she moved, I don't get these types of moments at all and it felt great. I REALLY felt like his DADDY again. It's been a while since I've had that feeling.

Anyway, just had to tell someone. LOL!!

And cherish those moments. They grow up WAY to fast!

My 2 yr old daughter has been nothing but playful with me all evening. I love those moments!! At one point I had my 2 yr old and 5 yr wanting to be tickled.

As someone with my one and only daughter turning 18 (sob!) in 5 weeks...amen to that.

You can have a lawyer and fight for custody in any separation agreement, which is what probably should happen and what you should seek if she is going to keep living at her mother's house. But that does NOT preclude doing a great Plan A whenever and wherever possible.

The idea of Plan A has nothing at all to do with avoiding conflict. A state of conflict is actually an improvement since her current state is withdrawal; she has basically checked out of the marriage all together.

So, you don't have to avoid making her mad or stop trying to do or say what is right. you just state what is right and then move past it and create an atmosphere of standing up for your family.

Plan A is:

Meet her ENs.
Avoid Love Busters.
Expect nothing in return.

Expose where needed.
Stand up for truth.
Show courage in the face of seeming hopelessness.

When she is with you, your goal should be to make her want to stay. You do this by making with you a safe, enjoyable place to be and not one of constant arguing, Angry Outbursts (Serious Love Buster there) or Disrespectful Judgments (another serious LB.)

Don't try to convince her.
Don't try to tell her that you are a changed man.
Show her by your actions that you have changed.
Show her by your actions what staying married to you can be.

She says she is undecided. She probably is. What that means to HER is that she is undecided whether she wants to stay and end the affair or leave you and continue it. What she REALLY wants is both. She wants to remain married to you for safety, comfort and stability. She wants to fool around with OM for fun, enjoyment and her next fix. In order to overcome that mindset, you have to make with you better than with OM.

She's sitting on the fence. You have to knock her off. If you do it by drawing her toward you (a great Plan A) then when she falls off it will be toward you and not toward OM. If you do that by pushing her to decide or by forcing her to choose, she will fall into the arms of OM.

Oh, the affair will eventually end on it's own, she will wake up and see where she is and probably want to come home anyway, but if she ends the marriage and lives with OM and that becomes her "normal" it will become yours as well and you will move on...

And then, when the affair is over, which WILL happen, you will not want her back.

If you keep making deposits and avoid making withdrawals, your balance grows. This is true with money and is true with the Love Bank as well. You want to make deposits and stop withdrawing from her LB$.

Meet her ENs. (Deposits)
Avoid Love Busters. (Withdrawals)
Expect nothing visible to happen at any given instant of time.

For most BS the frustration comes from having unmet expectations. We do X and expect it to have Y as a side effect. Doesn't happen that way. Plan A almost never by itself causes an affair to end and the WS to recommit to the marriage and recovery.

So, you Plan A, prepare for Plan B and protect your son, your assets and your home.

If after a couple of months of Plan A the affair still rages on, then be ready to go to Plan B.

Read up on Plan B NOW and start getting your thoughts together as to what that will look like for you. Don't wait till you are burned out completely before starting to prepare.

You see, it is all part of a PLAN, not just some random stuff you try and if she doesn't come home try something else. It all works together and is all part of the same plan.

And it's all spelled out here. It's in the articles and basic concepts and the Q&A columns. And it has been played out time and again on these forums.

Go back and read from 6 months ago...or a year ago...or 3 years ago...or 10 years ago...The stories are all the same. We were all where you are now...

Some have recovered...

Some are recovering...

Some have moved on...

Many have healed and learned to live again no matter what the outcome of their marriage happened to be.

Information is power. Truth is your ally. Wisdom is strength.

All three are here, but you have to take them. They don't happen on their own.

Have you read SAA? If not get it or find it at the library near you and READ it and STUDY it.

MEMORIZE the Basic Concepts.

Learn about reverse babble and begin to practice it.

If you have the money, call the coaching center and get an appointment with Steve or Jennifer.

Identify your own Love Busters and put them to death.

Lock up your Taker for the next 3 or 4 months.

Focus on your goal like a gazelle fleeing a cheetah! Eat sleep and breath Plan A.

The better Plan A the more powerful the Plan B...

And the greater your chance of winning the war.



Mark

Thanks as always Mark. I read and study your posts every time. I just keep using them as ways to hammer in the point of what I should be doing. Thanks.

I did buy a copy of SAA yesterday, should be in next week.

I had our son for the last two nights. Last night, like I said, was awesome. So, the first night without him is pretty hard. This is when I miss my family the most.

Also, I've been coaching a youth YMCA basketball team. When I get home from a game (like tonight) it SUCKS not having my wife/best friend to come home to and talk about it like I've had for 9+ yrs. anytime I played or coached.

So, I got a double whammy tonight. LOL!!


You know what's one great thing about all of this. I have gotten so much closer to my Mom it's not even funny. We seem to talk on the phone every night these days and she even offered to let me call her tonight after the game if I wanted (she goes to bed around 8:30 and I get home afterwards from the games).

Anyway, in my big house alone so I just needed to talk to anyone. Thanks for listening.

Hey Mo,

I know that sucky feeling of being alone and your best friend isnt there. I have to go to work shortly so I cant chat, but just wanted to let you know someone was out here and reading

Lil

I appreciate it, LD

I responded to you in E's post. You should really tell your WW that and do it.

Thanks, APF.

I responded to you then deleted it. I'm just afraid to post any info what-so-ever because of the possibility of prying eyes.

You've been one of the ones that seems most interested in my issue, if you're interested in what I have planned, you can email me at

remove the address please, its served its purpose

I hope you didnt mind I gave your email to my H. He is RMX. I will chime in my 2 cents here and there

Hi Mo, just doing one of my drive by drop ins. I am pleased some more people are here for you, and I really like hearing you talk about your son.
One day your wife will get her head out of her [censored], and she will very much apprieciate what you are doing now.

{{{MO}}}

What am I doing now that you think she'll appreciate?

Man, I miss her so damn much it's not even funny. She questions if I really love her right now. Heck, I questioned it a few times, even shortly before all this happened. But, it's funny, I'm am more convinced than I've ever been about how much I love her.

Yesterday was actually nice with her. I saw a glimpse of the woman I've been with for 9 years. We talked a couple of times and it was REAL nice. This morning, she finds out I have a password on my computer and the venom spews again. The talking down and REALLY disrespectful attitude goes off again.

"Why you have a password if you live alone? You don't trust me? You think I'm going to come over and start snooping on your computer?"

I said I just like the extra security. Her "Lier! I don't why you just can't tell me that you just don't trust me and wanted to keep me off!"

Me: "OK yes, that is part of the reason."

Her: "Aaaaah, honesty actually does come from you."

I give her a double take while I'm putting shoes on my son.

Her: "I mean about stuff you don't want me to get mad about."

But, I didn't lie. I told her flat out I like the extra security. I just didn't say specifically it had anything to so with her.

Hang in there. Keep taking the high road, all you can do at this point.

MO,

I don't understand why you were not honest with her.

"I don't trust you. You are having an affair. You are not trustworthy right now. I know you can choose to earn my trust back when you stop your adultery."

Calm, respectful. Stating reality, not backing away and not flinging it at her.

Not half-truths...they can be contagious...you can catch them from her.

Higher honesty is called for and you can say to her: "I felt like I was with my wife again today. I miss her very much. I love who she is."

Keep discerning W from WW...they are not the same, though they bear a striking resemblance.

Orchid here on MB used to say, Plan A your W and Plan B the WW.

And when she said about stuff you don't want her to get mad about...thank her and validate, "You're right. I've been working on not disrespecting our marriage through my urge to conflict avoid."

Conflict avoidance blocks intimacy. It truly attacks your marriage. I hope you've realized this since you've come to MB.

Thanks for staying here, too.

LA

Yea, I still have a lot to learn on how to handle some situations and things she says.

My first reaction it to say something like you posted but I just have been avoiding even mentioning the affair all together. I don't even know why, but it's a mind block as I'm about to say something that brings it up.

I WANT to be completely honest with everything I say to her. I really do. But then my mind halts me thinking of the venom I'll see right after I would say something.

It's a mind set I've always had. I'll just shut my mouth and let whatever go as to avoid conflict because I feel that most of the time the issue isn't worth the drama that could become.


This whole thing is just a lot to take in. I already have million things on my mind because of the situation, then work and my son and dealings with finances and house and stuff that I'm now having to deal with alone. Then, all of this on this site just adds to it and it gets jumbled in all the mess.

I REALLY need an experienced person the have an ear piece in my ear when i deal with her because lose a lot of what been told to me in the situation. LOL!! I post things that's happened and then, through other's responses, I realize how many times I missed out saying or doing the right thing.

MO,

Rest in your own assurance you are doing the right thing. You're standing for your marriage against infidelity.

Set your goal for clarity...sounds like that's what you want most in your life right now. To be clear on what to do, get clear on what you choose your actions and words from.

Revoke your permission to react...you want to act, not react.

Permit yourself and commit to listen and repeat...repeat what you hear her saying...hand it back. It's an act of respect and an act of clarity..."I hear you saying, is that correct?" Gets rid of the assumption that you perceived what she means, in the way she means it when she means it. That's a lot. If you don't listen and repeat, assumptions continue. Clarity calls for honesty "I don't understand what you just said. I heard <blank>, is that correct?"

You don't have to say the right words, in the right way, at the right time. That is what causes confusion and blocks communication. When you are focused on what you're going to say back, you tie yourself up. It's why conflict avoiding has such appeal...the old adage if you don't have anything nice to say, say nothing. Not real and not really respectful.

When you go for clarity you stop your effort to be right, to convince, to change the other person's opinion, thoughts, beliefs, feelings. Which isn't respectful or real. Clarity does clear up communication. Permit yourself when you listen and repeat to confirm or clarify, to answer, "Good to know." A lot of conversation is sharing...and we often treat "unspoken questions" as real. Wait until they are spoken.

When you apply this to your life, do it in all areas...best practice is to practice...so when your emotions rise when you're listening to her, you can fall back on this new habit...which you practice with your son, your friends, coworkers and extended family. That's you helping yourself...being your own best friend and ally...which helps you in your goal to save your marriage.

When you feel your fear rise, breathe...seriously...in any conversation, there is room for three deep, slow breaths...helps your body, your clarity and your emotions. Acknowledges yourself...so you're not wrapped up in the other person and abandoning you. Helps you not to get tangled up in the voice in your head cutting you down "you're doing/saying it wrong! You're gonna blow it!" We are our own traps, MO. You're not alone.

Humans create drama from their perception. We choose our perception, perspective, thoughts and beliefs. That's the great news. Drama doesn't happen to us...we volunteer to be the creators, the participants. Unvolunteer.

Respectful communication is where it begins. Clear your decks and you can be present for clear communication. Will help with your finances, house, your son and other stuff. We live in the present moment, so it's reasonable to feel overwhelmed in it, with all our stuff right now. Reasonable, not real.

Each decision has its own moment. What you decide financially is decided...don't bring it into your continuing present moment again and again...conflict avoidance loves distraction...will worry at something already decided giving you the sensation of constant turmoil.

You're very present with your son, aren't you? The way you interact, being with him, very present? You may have seen him react the same way, time and time again, and then he doesn't react exactly in the same way the next time...you can still experience him as if he did, if you're choosing your perspective to be pat down and planted...we are changing beings. Be open and aware...of how much your expectations add to your own chaos.

Though your marriage is in crisis time right now, you can learn much to free yourself from past traps (and big kudos on your awareness of your CA) we built for ourselves. To me, this is an essential part of Plan A...as essential as exposure and respect...by eliminating our LBs to our partners, we remove our permissions to do them to ourselves, too...so stay aware of how much tushie-kicking you do, what put downs you say in your head...they are you and they really aren't about you.

You're whole and complete...not a thing wrong with you. Treat yourself well and you'll treat others well, too. You'll halve your pain and free yourself from a lot of confusion, anxiety and anger.

You are your own ear piece. You can do this. Listen and repeat cuts out a lot of noise we generate in ourselves from fear...let go her response. If you base your choice of words on her possible response, you will remain cloudy, unsure and unspoken.

If you base your choice of words on your own code of respect, then you will feel respected, strong and complete. We are not the cause, control or cure for any other human on the planet. Let go the outcome...it's not in our control. Only we are.

Be good to yourself...understand you are in a battle with her A...her A is attacking your marriage. Her choices. Not her. Separate this out in your head...your W from your WW and you won't fear so greatly when you interact...listen and repeat takes down the fear even more...for it is within your control, your choice, not up to her.

Breathe and focus on what is in your control (always was and will be)...you. When you begin to feel out of control, confused and lost...accept that as a signal to you, for your benefit, that you're focusing on outcome, her possible response, her stuff...not yours. Breathe and re-center.

You are a dazzling human being when you sit in your power. We all teeter and fumble when we try to control what we have no control over. When we stop acting to our code and try to manipulate the outcome. Outcomes...come. Consequences come. We don't control them. Don't waste your energy, your focus over there, 'k?

You can do this. We believe in you.

LA

Man, this is TOUGH!!!!

She came over to drop our son off for the night and she looked gooooood!!!

I wanted to just grab her, carry her up stairs and, well y'all know the rest.

Don't worry, I planned A but it came natural tonight. I wasn't TRYING to do or forcing anything. I was just myself. I'm really starting to feel glimpses of the man I was years ago.

I guess all this self revelation I've done over the last few months is starting to take effect. Now, don't get me wrong, I still have moments where the situation or something just REALLY hits a memory and it gets to me, sometimes hard especially times when I REALLY miss her and/or my son. And obviously, the A itself causes a lot hurt, but in terms of just me, I'm starting to feel really good about myself. Feeling good about changing some of my biggest negative personality traits, etc. Now, I still have a long way to go but I see the changes in me.

I've REALLY missed the positive, fun-loving, optimistic, flirtatious, ultra-romantic guy I used to be. At some point a few years ago, everything turned to being "glass half empty" and it just continued dragging me down until I hit a decent depression for the span of a year or two. Maybe I've just hit a good spot in the roller-coaster and just speaking out of my mind, but it just feels nice.

But, I can't finish this post without acknowledging the members here who have really helped propping me up through the last couple of weeks.

Let me ask a question....

I keep reading on this site how the WS is hurt and traumatized throughout this process - is it true?

I mean, I don't see ANY hurt form her at all. She almost looks more sure of herself now. Maybe it's a front, I don't know. But, I certainly don't see someone who's brain is wrecked with what to do, who to be with and any guilt.

Did I misread something on here, misreading her or what?


She came by this morning, as she's getting in the car I say, "See ya, Dear."

She gives me a look as if I just called her some strange name and says, "Dear?"

I responded with, "OK. See ya, Honey"

Same face, "Honey?"

Me: "OK. See ya, Babe."

Same face, "Babe?"

I just smirked and walked back to the house.


I remember Sat when she was over, as she was leaving I don't remember what we were talking about but I said to her with a smile, "I'm saving myself."

Her: "Oh, saving yourself for Mrs. Right?"

Me: "Saving myself for who I've always been with." I smiled, gave her a wink and walked back to the house.

Now, I'm just being me, flirtatious and semi-silly; but too much? it's been a little while since I've gotten a progress report from the site.

MO,

You're referring to a FWS, I think...someone who realizes how much devastation they've caused through their actions.

Your WW is still entrenched in her entitlement, continually fueled in justifications from her resentment and lack of respect. Going to see false confidence generated from not being in reality...total immersion in fantasy right now.

Plan A is all about bringing reality...call her your wife. She is. To answer her query on your use of "dear" "My wife is dear to me. I miss my hot, faithful wife very much."

Smile. (You seem to do this well, anyway.)

LA

So, an update for the last few days.

Friday my wife comes over to drop off my son for the weekend. Well, as soon as I walked in the door, I could tell something was up with her. She was pissed with something and was just trying to hide it when I asked her how she is doing and so forth.

Earlier in the day, I finally decided to email her Mom, which I had contemplated doing for a week or two. I emailed her saying there is probably some misunderstandings and I would love to talk to her if she would would give me a chance to clear the air about some things since my WW says she hates me.

I told her about this site and how I did call her a dingbat in my original thread, but told her (since I thought it was private) I would have called her much worse if I thought little of her or hated her. But, I apologized for it regardless.

I gave her a link to a web page that I made a compilation of things said in my original thread, including both my WW's and OM's comments with some responses. I told her this was a fraction of what was said because it was long but I'd be more than happy to provide a link and my username and password if she would like to to read the thread in it's entirety.

I went on about how I I'm still fighting for my marriage, I love her daughter and I would love her support in helping me do just that.

So, back to that night. My wife tells me that one of my "friends" from MB emailed her telling her how much she is screwed, etc. I said, if that's the case, I know nothing about it.

So, she asks me if I'm happy with the arrangement with our son for this month. SHE decided to write on the calendar which days I would get him for the whole month. I told her, "To tell you the truth, I don't like it at all." She said let's talk about it. I said, "OK, let's negotiate." Well, we all know you negotiate down. So, I said, the ideal situation in my opinion would be she have him during the day and then he stays here every night and we can work out the weekends. Well, she DID NOT like hearing this.

She said that she works. I said I wasn't aware of this, which I wasn't. The last thing I knew was her going on and on about how much fun her and our son have had every day, picking him up from school, playing in the back yard every day, going swimming, etc. She mentioned possibly getting hired as a personal assistant, but didn't tell me it was a sure thing the last time we talked about it. So, I said, IF she was not working during the day, that my plan seemed the best in my opinion. I said, nothing gives you the right to decide when, where and how long I get to see him by herself, that there is no custody agreement in place so it's 50/50.

She says she has 4 jobs and on top of all that, she is a full time Mom. She kept arguing and yelling, but I just kept telling her, there is no custody agreement and nothing gives either one of us the right to decide when the other sees him. She tried to tell me how Texas law is and I just handed her my lawyer's business card and said she is free to call her and ask anything she would like. "Why would I call YOUR lawyer!!" She handed me the card back.

So, she just busts out of the blue, "You know we're getting a divorce right?" Me: "OK, that's for you to talk with a lawyer about."

She says something about inreconcileable differences. I said, "I guess you're right. You're having an affair and want to split our family apart and I don't like the affair and I'm fighting for the vows that mean a lot to me."

So, the bills come up and I tell her she needs to contact our debt management company to set up her own account with her cards. "Oh, you're going to do that to me now?!!" Me: "I'm doing anything TO you, I just don't feel like I should be paying your bills since you decided to move out."

I suggested also that we switch cars since the truck I'm driving is only in her name and the 4-Runner she has, has both our names on it. Again, she hated this suggestion. She threatened taking the truck during the night and selling it or giving it to charity leaving me with no way to get to work. Again, she moved out, the truck is only in her name, I don't feel as if I should be making the payments on something that is technically hers. We bought it for her originally and switched only because of our son.

She tells me my landlord has said a couple of times that he's going to kick me out of the house. Now, this landlord has been a close family friend of her and her family for 30+ years. So, obviously, one would worry about that relationship and how it relates to me being in the house. But, he has a woman that handles all his financial affairs. Before all of this, I had already set up a meeting with her to go over stuff. More on this a little later.

So, then it becomes an hour scream fest from her. How this whole marriage was a mistake, we were young and nieve, that the only good that came out of it was our son, how I hurt her over and over again, that she doesn't know who I am anymore, how she hopes that I'll be better with my next wife and it will not be fake, how there is a line between confident and arrogant and I'm so arrogant.

I was taking my son out to eat and welcomed her to come with us three times through all of this. She would just respond with something in terms of how she will NEVER go out with me. So anyway, she leaves.

I call the woman that handles the house for the landlord, I fill her in on everything going on and also how my wife was telling me how I'm going to be kicked out. She was very sympathetic and assured me that I would not be kicked out. She even said the landlord even said earlier in the week that, as long as I pay the rent and take care of the house, I will not be kicked out. I talked to her about changing the locks on the doors, which she was OK with.

While I'm out to eat with my son, my wife calls me to tell me that we can switch cars but I have to pay her half of what the 4-Runner is worth, then she'll take that money and pay off the truck. I just said I'll think about it and she hung up.

Fast forward to Sunday. I have been taking steps to set up bills in my name and change contact info and everything since I was to be paying this all on my own now. One of these things was our email accounts. She has 2 accounts through our service which, since she moved and I'm paying the bill, I shouldn't be "financing." So, I cut her off from the accounts that night.

Well, since I had her accounts, I could now be able to access her myspace account and see what intel I could get about the situation. Found some real interesting stuff. But, now I had access to all her friends. So, I messaged each and everyone of them, telling them that I am her husband, that she is having an affair with Xxxxx Xxxxx, that I love her and fighting to save my marriage and asked for support. I gave them an email address in case they had any questions. I've actually got some real nice responses. It's nice to see concern and support from people.

Well, Monday morning, my WW comes to pick up our son. She walks up and sees the new locks and knocks on the door. I walk our son out and she gets on me about the locks and I said she needs to talk with the woman that handles the house.

She then tells me my son's summer school is over with and that he'll be going to work with her. I asked where that is. She said she doesn't have to tell me. I said it would be nice to know in case there is an emergency.

She had scheduled I get our son on Wed and Thurs this week. I told her I have plans on Wed and I need to do it on Tues and Thurs. "I'll let you know!"

Anyway, so I start to walk away and I wave and say, "Love you, bye." Her: "You don't love me!!!" Me: "Yes I do". i smile and turned to go back to the house. All of a sudden, she blares the car horn. I finally turn around only to see her backing out of the driveway flicking me off the whole time. Mind you, this is all with our son in the car.

A little while later, she calls me saying that I have to set up a time for her and her Mom to get the rest of their stuff from the house, that they are getting a moving truck. I said I'll let her know.

A couple of hours later, she calls me again.

"Did you do something to my myspace account?"
"Yes"
"Did you change the password?"
"Yes"
"Why did you do this?"
"I'm taking steps to fight for my family and marriage and I didn't want you to interfere with it."
"Even if you got support, what makes you think there is anything to support?
When are you going to change it back?"
"Once it serves it's purpose, I'll put it back like it was."
"Did you change my email accounts?"
"Yes. You moved out and i don't feel I should be paying for your stuff."
"If you don't change my password back by the end of the day, it's war!!"
"So, we set for me having our son on Tuesday?"
CLICK

So, she calls me again a little later. I tell her she can give me a list of things they want to take from the house and I'll get them ready for her. She yells about how I'll be right there to watch her, so she can go in, get her stuff and leave. I repeated what I said. She starts yelling a list of items that they should take and how they'll get a cop out there if they have to. Then she says they are taking my son's bed. I said, "Maybe we will need that cop because I don't agree with taking his bad from his home." Her: "My Mom bought that bed for her house and only loaned it to us until you got off your sorry *** and bought a new one."

So, she twists it back to talking about how shabby our marriage was again. Again, she yells and screams about how she now wishes she had never met me, that I hurt her time and time again, that I'm living in a fantasy world if I think that our marriage was any better or there is any chance of us for the future, how there may have been some roses but the garden was always dead. She then starts to blame me for this whole situation and I just had enough of it right there. I said, "I'm am not going to listen to you blame me for everything going on anymore. You can talk all you want about how bad me and our marriage was, but you and me both know deep down it was nowhere close to what you're making it out to be. You decided to have an affair, you decided to break apart our family, you decided to move out and take our son with you. I know my part in the marriage but I will not listen to you blame me for everything anymore."

My son and when I see him this week comes up again (Tues & Thurs) and then she all of a sudden volunteers me having him Friday as well.

Anyway, it's like I'm not even talking to my wife. I've talked to her when she's been mad, but this is a different woman. Her voice is nothing I've heard before. It's creepy sounding. I finally got sick of her talking down to me so I told her, if she can't remain talking mature, then we need to end this phone conversation. CLICK

That night, come to find out, she hacked into my myspace account and screwed it over. She deleted everything and put my heading as, "Hi, I'm a ****head!" And then put a comment at the top about how I'm not the man I THINK I am.

So, last night I get home and call my wife to a) find out if she's even giving me our son for the night and b) let her know I'm home so she can if she was.

Half hour later, her Mom drives up and honks the horn. Now, when my FIL passed a couple of years ago (MAN, I miss him right now), they went through his stuff and gave me some of his sports memorabilia. My wife took most if not all of it a couple of months ago through this whole process. So, I go and get our son out of her car, and she asks that I give her any baseball cards I might have of his. I just told her that I'll look through them and let her know.

So, today my wife calls me and says I need to let her know when she can come over to pick up her and her Mom's stuff. She says she needs to know ASAP so she can tell others but that it has to be early on Sat.

Anyway, so that's the update. Drama, drama. She doesn't want to be around me and they are demanding they take stuff from the house, even our son's bed.

Thoughts?

And I fear for my son's well-being. I don't know what my wife and/or her Mom will do.

I mean, if they are willing to demand taking his bed from his room because they are mad at me, who knows what degree they will go or how they might put him in the middle of all of this.

You're really doing well. Good job.

Call your lawyer and ask him what she has the right to take from the house. Follow his instructions exactly. Ask him to put it in writing so you can give her a copy when she comes.

Gather up what he says she can have, put it all on the driveway early Saturday morning, so that it's all out there and waiting when she drives up. You don't even have to talk to her. Of course, if your lawyer says you don't have to give her the bed, she'll be pounding on the door. You might put a note on the door explaining why she's not getting the bed and informing her that you have already informed the local police that there might be an altercation at your home, in case she decides to try to break in. Have the number ready to dial. Then, just sit down on the couch, put in a good movie, put your headphones on, and wait for the storm to blow over.

Document every single thing she or her family says regarding him, document every single thing he does that you're aware of, where he goes, who he spends time with, how she is making him go to work with her, etc. Might let her know you are doing so. That might make her a little more careful.

This is EXCELLENT advice. Please follow it. It might also behoove you to carry around a recorder when you are speaking with her in person. Don't hide it. Make it very visible. If she asks about it, let her know that you really don't know the person she has become or what she is capable of so you are protecting yourself by making a record of all conversations with her. This way, she will be less likely to try and make a scene and get cops involved by making false accusations against you.

I also agree with keeping a journal or a log of everything if you need it later on for custody reasons.

The important thing here is to show her that all her screaming, ranting and raving isn't going to move you anymore. You will not "react" to that behavior. Just imagine the adults in Charlie Brown that only have "blah blah blah" to say.

Thanks, Cat. These are steps I was already planning on doing, but you helped confirm my thoughts.

Wow M I am very very proud of you! Keep up the work. Also when you buy things for your son keep records of it all. I mean reciepts to show you are taking care of him.

So, you guys have seen worse than this recover on here?

I mean, I still have hope and love in my heart (even hard for me to believe I do right now), but things look worse than ever. LOL!!

Yes, Mo...prepared to be amazed...which is why MB is important in this world...shows that our assumptions (can't come back from this, too much water under the bridge, too much damage) really can distort reality.

Things are. Worse, better...what do those really mean in infidelity? Before you experienced, yeah, maybe you thought you could judge...logically. Actually in it? Nope.

Whole new ballgame. Faith time. God never stopped with the miracles.

LA

Well, it's been a long time since I've posted. Man, so much has happened it's not even funny.

I've seen and heard from my wife one time in the last three weeks, and that wasn't a pleasant experience as she and her Mom yelled at me over the phone about getting "their" stuff from the house and both telling me they want NOTHING that reminds them of me. And, what did I do exactly do to warrant this feeling from them? LOL!!

My W came by that afternoon to get some stuff, drove up in OM's truck. Interesting to say the least. They have back tracked me having my son on two occasions after having it agreed upon, and one of those times they didn't even have the courtesy to even pick up my calls, call or return my messages to let me know they were not bringing him to me. I get to work the next morning only to see an email from MIL telling me the new arrangement I was to have visitations from now on.

I sent a certified letter in the mail stating I found the arrangement unacceptable and would love to talk to my W privately to discuss a better situation. Still nothing from my W nor has the situation changed. She's actually cut my utilities and with held some bill from me, etc.

So anyway, things I guess couldn't be worse right now.

From the moment I got on this site, I've continued to read of the "path of destruction" waywards create for themselves and those around them. Man, I didn't really understand this until now. There I was, married to a GREAT woman, an amazing son who I loved spending time with every day, a nice house in a good neighborhood. Things seemed pretty good. Now...

1) I've lost my wife and the woman I love

2) Lost my son (I do get to see him, but 1 night a week and every other weekend almost feels like he's out of my life)

3) Lost my extended family (W's family) who I love to death

4) Lost and losing some sanity. LOL!!

5) Lost any trust in any human being outside of my family. I mean, if the woman who has loved me unconditionally to no end for 9 years can do this to me, who can I trust?

I'd say that's a path of destruction. I still can't believe she's destroyed our family, especially for my son's sake.

What the heck is he thinking through all of this? Why do I not see Daddy much anymore? Does he not love me? Why is this other guy always around me, Mommy and Grams? I mean, I have no idea what's going on in his head.

My son's aspect in all this is REALLY what breaks my heart.

MO,

Have you contacted a lawyer and filed for custody yet? Since WW isn't holding to the agreed upon terms for visitation, it's time to fight for your son, 'k?

Time to document everything, including the affair, secure your finances and do what it takes.

Stop reading all the path of destructive waywards and read about the heroic BH's who fight the fog, do stellar Plan A's and then very dark Plan B's...they don't dare dwell in loss because their hands are full of the present, the fight, changing and addressing...they make a plan, choose actions.

Choose yours. Don't get caught in the miasma of stunning pain...don't swirl...act.

Fight the destruction of your family...stand for your marriage in words and deeds, in your thoughts and beliefs. Your time to rise, 'k?

Build trust in yourself...respect in yourself...act from love for your marriage, your son and yourself...and no matter what the outcome is, you'll know you did everything within your power.

No one deserves the incredible pain from any wayward...and it's undeserved grace for the BS to stand for the marriage, loving the real W, not the WW one...make your choice to do so or not with an eye to telling your son, ten years from now, what you did and why, 'k?

LA

Hey there M

I hope you are doing well. Seems your WW has driven you crazy. RMX hasnt told me to much about whats been going on with you but odds and ends...

Have you gotten a lawyer yet? You know YOU can not use that lawyer you and her both talked too. Thats against ethics now since you did a consultation with him then he calls you and tells you oh guess what your W hired me.

PLEASE get a lawyer and get your son out of that home. I hate saying that but shes not your W you once knew. If shes driving OM truck that means the OM has been around YOUR son. And the simple request you asked for OM to not be around him has been broken. She can not be trusted with ANYTHING and you need to go ahead and move foward.

I'm sorry it's going so poorly.

I agree about the lawyer. Just like exposing can be done and you can still get your spouse back, contacting a lawyer doesn't have to spell the death of your marriage; it only saves your rights while she's acting like a dingbat. Later, if the A breaks down, she may see this as you saving the marriage and protecting your son. Right now, it's not your job to be her friend; it's your job to protect your and your son's rights.

What they're doing about the visitation is illegal. There is no formal arrangement so they have no right to keep you from seeing your son.

And she is showing poor parenting by allowing your son, who clearly won't understand the situation, to be in contact with OM. It is SHE who is hurting your son at this point, whether she thinks she is or not.

Oh,I SO HOPE she is reading this thread. Good mothers DON'T HAVE AFFAIRS! Good Mothers DON'T TRASH THE INNOCENT BETRAYED HUSBAND TO HER SON OR ANYONE ELSE! Good Mothers DON"T WALK OUT ON A MARRIAGE WITHOUT GIVING IT A TRY!
You are a good Father and were a good husband. You can't help it if she LIED when she said her vows.
Get a good lawyer and stick it to this LYING WIFE AND MOTHER. As for HER Mother? Well,how do you think your wife got to be the sorry soul she is?
She hacked into your MySpace account? Can you say IMMATURITY? She's a child acting like a mother. So,she holds down 4 jobs (Yea,right) AND is a full time Mother? Well,le-de-da,pin a rose on HER lapel. Your son didn't ASK to be born. And many people on this site KNOW what it takes to BE a Mother.....And SHE AIN'T GOT IT! Sheesh....Hacking into your account when she should have been working or with your son. She wrote the book on immaturity.
MRS. RIGHT is out there.....and it ain't HER...I'm sure there are many single women out there who would like to get to know a man who is a good father and a faithful spouse. You will know when you have found her because she won't be playing baby games like your so-called wife is.

Well, things have gotten interesting. I can't go into many details...

Haven't heard or seen my WW in weeks and then, all of a sudden, she calls me out of the blue late last week and left a message about what's going on with our son's schooling. I had been trying to contact teachers and faculty for weeks trying to find out since she wasn't communicating with me. She stopped bringing our son over herself and my MIL was doing it.

So, all of a sudden she calls me and tells me the info. Next thing I get now is daily updates from her text to my phone about his day at school.

She then calls my cell on Tues. morning while I'm at work. I missed the call so she texts me "PLEASE CALL ME BACK" within a minute or so. I go to another office to call her back and she calls again. I pick up, ask how she's doing. She starts asking me questions about a change of address I turned into the post office. A week or so prior, I went to the post office to forward just my mail to my parent's house. She was having everything forwarded to her Mom's so i wanted to be sure I get my mail. Well, I goofed and put the old address as her Mom's address and the zip for my parent's was wrong, so they got a notice in the mail about it.

But, she calls that morning seemingly in a panic to ask me about this of all things? She then asks if I'm moving and I told her I am and going to my parent's, etc. She asked how we are going to work the exchange of our son since I'll be moving a little further away. I said we can meet somewhere or I'll even drive all the way and take him to school if I have to. She didn't hesitate to say that's OK and that she'll let the teacher know what car to look out for.

She tells me that she thinks I deserve to see our son more. I asked what changed all of a sudden, I was getting no info regarding him at all, they were holding him to this "standard visitation" deal and now I get daily updates and you're telling me I should see him more. She said I deserve to know what he is doing in school and that she had another plan for visitation for me but a lawyer told her to stick to the standard procedure (every other weekend and every Thurs night.)

Now, I knew at this point she had hired a lawyer on the previous Wed. So, for all I know, all of this is just because the lawyer told her to do it. I have know idea. Just a funny coincidence that things change so drastically once she got an attorney.

So, back to the phone convo... She asked about our son for the weekend since I'm moving. I said I miss him dearly and want to spend the whole weekend with him but it's not fair to him being involved with all the moving going on (helping my brother and his W move as well).

At one point she was going on and on and at the end she said, "Hello! Are you there?" I said, "Yea, I'm just listening. It's been a long time since I've talked to you, so I'm just listening."

She responded that she was very upset I was locking her and her mom from their stuff (when I changed the locks) and that she didn't know my mindset and was worried anything she did or said was going to bite her in the ***."

I told her I've done nothing in the past or future out of anger, hate, revenge or spite. Everything is to save my family and to protect my interests and assets. She asked me, what in 9 years has she done to give me the impression she would ever try to take my money or take something that's mine. I said, "You're right, you've been a damn good woman to me all these years and nothing would give me that impression. But, you're also the last person I'd ever think that would..." Her: "OK, you don't have to say it." Me, "... betray me."

She said the fact she asked for a dime from me in two months should tell me she's not out to take my money.

She asked me if I got what I wanted out of her myspace page since I gave it back. I said yea, that I got some nice responses and some support. She argued that I didn't get but one nice response and that I'm lying my *** off to her. (I deleted some of the messages). She said either I'm lying or my memory is bad. I said that I have a lot on my mind these days and it's been a long time since I read any of it, so my memory is probably failing me.

She asked me if I couldn't afford the rent on the house and if the decision to move a quick/recent one or what not. I said I could afford living there and it was an ongoing thought about moving. I said I'm 30 yrs' old. I have a family, a son. I don't want to move into my parent's. I said that I never wanted to move from the house.

She asked then why am I moving. I said so I can get myself on my feet financially and emotionally, be more stable so that I can take care of our son the best I can in anyway he needs it. She asked, "What do you mean financially?" I just said not having to pay that big rent check and electric bill opens up me taking care of anything our son needs. I said that I do nothing in my life now without thinking of him first.

Anyway, at one point i told her I'm not trying to avoid her when she calls, that I'm at work and can't talk. I said that I miss talking to her and listening to her talk, if she wants to talk I can meet her somewhere like the park and we can talk all night if she wanted, but I just can't at work.

More in another post....

Be careful how much info you give her. She's fishing and playing nice until she has things the way SHE wants them. What a "Mother". :RollieEyes: Play your cards close to your chest.
A friend of mine went along with her H investing in a condo. He was nice as pie,saying it was an "investment" for them. Yea,an investment for HIM. That's where he went when he left her. Your wife thinks ONLY of herself no matter how much it looks like she "cares". :RollieEyes: Remember she puts HERSELF first even over your son. She's worried about finances so be careful how much info you give her. She's very sneaky.
I'd just say,"Have your lawyer talk to mine". That will throw her because she's trying to get HER ducks in a row and acting like she "cares". She hasn't been a damn good woman. She's using your wanting to communicate against you,MenOut. Never compliment her or tell her you miss her. Remember,all she is worried about is HERSELF,even over your son.
I can't get over how immature she was to hack into your MySpace page. I would post NOTHING on it. She's sneaky,like I said,and will use it against you.

So, yesterday morning I'm getting ready for work but I'm already dressed. My cell rings and it's her. She asks if a have a few minutes to talk and I said sure. She then asks if she can come in. Huh? Sure enough, there's her car in the driveway. I said why don't I meet you out there. She asked if I didn't trust her that much to come in thinking she would take something. I said no, just that the place is a wreck from the packing. She said she understands being a mess and she'll just stand inside the door.

So, I let her in. She said she wanted to talk to me face to face about that evening (me getting my son for the night and she was going to be late) and the weekend (the move). She asked a lot of small questions about the set up I and our son will have over there at my parents, etc. We agreed that I was going to take our son to school in the morning. She asked about a few items, whether I will leave them for her or are already packed. She said, if they're packed, then not to worry about them. Asked about our dogs and I told her that they've been my family for the last two months since she moved out, so they're my girls. After a while, she left and she agreed to let me have him again tonight (Fri) again. I told her she looked pretty and she gave me a funny face and said thanks. I just said it's been a long time since I've seen her and she looks nice.

Found out later in the day that she did indeed file for D. I guess I just don't understand. Our marriage wasn't that bad. We didn't hate each other, we did things together as a family, there is no drugs, alcohol or abuse. I know she wasn't the happiest because we both allowed things like debt, family issues and our son allow us to grow apart. But, was our marriage REALLY that bad to file a divorce? Does she REALLY believe living out of her Mom's house, her and her son being involved and around a serial cheater who (by her admission) has done cocaine in the past and has an ex-wife and two kids to deal with, that all of this is a better, happier life than what our marriage was before? I just don't get it.

This morning, took son to school. Met his teacher and she seemed nice. As I'm driving to work, WW called my cell. She asked if everything went OK and I said it went fine, that I met his teacher and we're good. Her: "I'm just worried about my baby."

I then asked her, when she dropped him off this evening, that I can get his SSN from her for my records. She said sure but then asked what I have scheming. I said I have nothing scheming, that my mom mentioned it and I thought it was a good idea to have it. She said it's just weird after years of not showing a lot of interest in a lot of stuff, that now I want to know everything. I said that she is right that I didn't show a lot of interest but I want to be the best father I can be.

I made another reference to missing talking to her. She responded with, "So, now you're telling me you want to be friends?" Me: "I'm not what I'm telling you other than I miss you and miss talking to you.

We then talked about how each of us is trying to break our son of always wanting to not only watch movies all the time, but also break his habit of wanting to control the remote (he ends up skipping, pausing, going to menus, etc instead of just watching it).

More on next post...

So anyway, there is some that has gone on.

Just so sad packing up my house, 9 years of collections and memories. Packing away pictures of us and us as a family, including our wedding picture. Packing away gifts and things I've given her over the years. Packing away keepsakes from our wedding. Just hard to imagine that this is happening. As the days get closer to me moving out of the house, the ghosts of our family memories in each room haunt me. It's really hell.

I don't wish harm or hurt on anyone, but I wish she could feel the hell I've been through just for one second - ONE SECOND. She would realize what her actions has done to our whole family. But, I know, many on here know what I'm talking about.

Thanks again for listening everyone and for all the kind words, support and helpful tips. All you guys are a true gift of God.

MO,

Thank you very much for the update. Sounds like you've made a lot of important choices since you've been here.

I don't see which plan you're in...and I strongly advise you to go to Plan B immediately.

She's filing for divorce because she's in a wayward mindset...if you would choose to see her as addicted to a substance, it would really help you stick to a plan.

When you said you found out she'd filed for D, did you mean you'd been served? Please contact a lawyer immediately to find out how that affects your stand with custody of your son...because in some states, filing first matters. Find out what you can do if she doesn't come through with continued visitation...now that you're moving, you have no basis for being the better parent to have physical custody (continuity for your son, his home and bed)...you're both now at your respective parents' houses and it's a mess.

Get a reliable third-part intermediary, write your Plan B letter and go dark. I'm having a memory lapse here...you were in Plan A...did you expose to everyone?

Did you get some IC counseling for yourself?

If you cannot stomach the idea of recoverying your marriage, then I do understand the choices you've made...and you have the right to divorce. If you want your marriage, then I'm perplexed about your choices.

LA

Hey Loving, sorry for the long response time.

Believe me, the last thing I wanted to do was move out of our home. The problem is that the owner of the house is a LONG time family friend of my WW and her mother. Actually, within a year or so after my FIL passed away a few years ago, her mother and the owner of the house started having their own "relationship". He's one of those guys that's never been married and has a "woman at every port." Well, MIL has become another "port". Weeks ago, they lied to him in order to let them in the house after I changed the locks. I found out about this through the grapevine and was able to be home and prevent it from happening. But, because I couldn't stop him having a key since it's his house, I couldn't trust they would try to pull something again.

Also, financially it was just too much for me to take care of. With just having my paycheck alone, I couldn't pay rent, plus utilities (including a huge electric bill) and then pay all the other bills like the big credit management bill.

She also filed for the D and I had to take care of myself financially in order to pay for legal/lawyer fees.

About the legal ramifications and my son about me moving out, three lawyers told me it's not an issue since a) she already had moved out first and b) means I have more support to take care of him there.


I have been reluctant on posting here since she has read this thread in the past but I don't give a f- anymore.

Since I moved into my parent's there hasn't been a whole lot of communication between WW and I. Talking to her just plain exhausts me mentally and I'd rather just not get into hearing her fog babble over and over and over again, time after time after time.

We talked on the phone a couple of weeks ago about her going to her sister's in Austin and taking our son with her to get away from the hurricane. I was supposed to have our son that night but I told her, as much as I miss him to death, I'd rather he be safe. Later that day she says her and her mom decided to stay and have a "block party" and stay through it. I laid into her telling her to get her butt to Austin and don't take any chances with our son, that she's lucky to have somewhere to go for safety so get there. Well, she did end up going that Fri. morning.

The whole week she was in Austin after the storm came through, she continued to to text me to see if me and my family was OK. She even called and left messages on my brother's and his wife's phones which is very strange considering my WW really dislikes both - a lot. But, it was strange she was so concerned over me and, especially, my family's well-being.

She gets back this last Fri. morning and calls me to tell me she's back in town. She then tells me there is a letter in the mail that pretty much says they want to repo the truck I'm driving (in her name, she didn't pay on it for 2 months before FINALLy giving me the bill for it). She was supposed to call and take care of stuff with it weeks ago (she said she would call ASAP) so that it wouldn't get to this point, but never did. She starts making comments about how it must be nice that I make $xxx amount of money a month. This is the 3-4 comment based around my money or her lack there of she has made in the last 2 weeks. She made a comment about how she's "under a lot of pressure". I wanted to just tell her, "Look, YOU had all access to my money and lifestyle and YOU decided to have a d** affair and move out!!!" But, I just shut my mouth. And, all that seemingly peek through the fog she had in Austin by expressing all that concern, evaporated when she then started berating me about the pants I put on our son of all things. She says every pair of pants I put on him are too small. Funny since I put him in the same pants I get from her at some point.

Anyway, I'm writing all of this from work and about to head out the door. I'll try to write some more when I'm home later tonight.

Thanks for letting us know! We were worried! Do you and your parents have power? We don't. Not til Sunday at least. *sigh*

You're right though. No time now to be nice to her at your own expense. You have to set up a safe home for your son. Best of luck.

Thanks, Cat.

Yea, we all got power last Wed. I believe. I can't believe how many still are without it and my heart goes out to y'all.


About my son, man how heartbreaking it is for me with him. I miss him SOOOO MUCH!!!!

When I get him, especially after a weekend, the first day without out him is so depressing for me. Those mornings I have him, I get up 2 hours earlier than usual so I can get ready, get him ready and drive a half hour back to where I used to live to take him to school. When he gets out of the truck and walks into the darkness where the doors are and I see him vanish, knowing I won't see him for a good week or more, it just breaks me apart. I know I sound like a complete wuss when saying this, but I literally cry all the way to work those mornings. This last Monday, the teacher gets him out of the car and he actually starts to cry, gives me a horribly sad look and then looks back to see if I'm still there couple of times as he walks away. This is the first time he did any of that. It made that morning 10x worse for me. His autism doesn't allow him to speak, but you can tell he knows now that he's not going to see me for a while when I drop him off at school. Then, of course I get home only to see his books and toys, etc laying around from the weekend and I break down again.

Of all the stuff that has happened and everything my WW has done, taking my son away from me is something I don't think I will EVER forgive. EVER! And the fact her mom seems to be in on everything, and could very well be fueling much of it, just sickens me even more.

You know, when I moved out, I left stuff at the house for my WW to come back the next day and pick up. They actually brought my son to the house with them!!!! Can you believe that?

You KNOW he walked right up to the house expecting to see everything as normal - his dogs, his room, his TV, sofas, ME!! And they brought him right into an empty house. It's like they don't give a f- about traumatizing him. Why would you bring him there under those conditions? Of course, I KNOW OM was there as well to help. I have no proof, but I'm not an idiot.

Then, of course, her Mom starts harassing me (leaving phone messages on my cell and my parent's phone, and emailing my work email) over a tricycle. A tricycle that was SO IMPORTANT that my WW left behind and never got it for over a month as it sat by our front door. A tricycle that I took him out and played on numerous of times after she moved out.

It's just sick how I've become this horrible, monster of a person in both their eyes. Like, WTF did I do to be treated like this? I know, the mind of a WS. It's just insane.

Yup

Well, I emailed WW over the weekend and asked that she join me for dinner tonight at one her favorite restaurants.

She eventually emailed back last night asking why and I said I just wanted to spend some time with someone I care about to just talk.

Well, she never gave me an answer, but she calls me this afternoon and says she can't make it. She says she has too many clients to take care of and "they come first." I told her it's too bad she can't make it and I was looking forward to it. She asked why and I said because, again, I wanted to get together, talk and catch up. She asked to talk about what? I said anything you'd like, anything and everything - just talk.

Well, she then goes on and asks if we can "go through this divorce peacefully?" Me: I wasn't aware, at least on my part, that I was doing anything not peacefully." Her: "I'm just saying that I hope we can talk like adults and negotiate all this custody stuff between us instead of going to mediation."

We have a scheduled mediation for custody on Oct. 29th. She says she doesn't have a lot of money, that she already paid her lawyer a lump sum of money and mediation would be another payment she would have to dish out. She says again how she has little money and all of it goes to our son, so she doesn't have much at all for other stuff.

I told her I would think it over and that I'd rather not to have to deal with lawyers either, but I'd think it over.

I don't know. I feel like I F'd up. I should have told her that the only way to avoid mediation is to reconcile our marriage. Though, I'm not sure how that would have went over since she seems pretty convinced there is no future for us.

Man, this sucks. She's the first and only real relationship I've ever had and I can't go or do anything without all the memories of us and us as a family rushing back at me. It's like the 9 best years of my life being flushed down the toilet.

Don't listen to her. She trying to suck you in for her own benefit. Take care of YOUR needs. She started it; let her deal with it.

How are things going?