Ok, I have been following this thread and learning lots. I have a question though. My H's first A we both believe was a direct result of two crisis in our lives that crushed him. The first was our DS became severely handicapped mentally and physically due to illness. My H was the stay at home dad for the first three years and went back to work when he could no longer deal with the obvious ..our son was NOT going to miraculously recover. During that period he had applied to the PD. He so wanted to be a cop. At the last minute after being accepted he was turned down due to his F's past criminal history (drugs). H was devastated. 2 months later old g/f calls and the rest is history. Because I was dealing with my own grief over my DS and my feeling uncertain about H being a cop I don't think I was really there for him. How does one depressed and grieving parent support another?

[color:"blue"] My fast answer is straight from my PAA Stewardess book (circa <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> 1970 before some of you were born) ....

Grab hold and secure your OWN oxygen mask before attempting to assist anyone else.

~also~ ... taking turns being "the strong one" and being the one asking for help.

~also~ ... get professional outside help as soon as possible.

~also~ ... put aside any non-urgent tasks ... say "No, I cannot do that." as necessary.

~also~ ... recognize when it is time to take a walk, or take a nap, or take a chillpill.

I wish I had known then what I know now. I buried my head in the sand instead. I put all of my focus on DS and none on my H. Too late to go backward but not too late for the future. We are, btw, making some unbelievable progress.

[color:"blue"]FF ... Low's first post has something useful... [/color]


[*]Stay close to your spouse. Acknowledge their feelings, even when they scare you. They need you more than you can imagine. They fear being alone.

I've learned more than you can imagine from this thread. Got a chance to practice what I know last night.

but I also learned this...

[*]

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[*] Susan [*] <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

How? I see Pep knows too. What is the secret? Oh never mind..

[/list][*]this that the other [list]

I also have been learning...

I've been asking myself: What made me stop being the babe in the Corvette- or shall I say Lexus- H always wants to stop by the dealership to dream -even just recently I almost complained about this...

Me: "We can't afford this, etc...."

Steve Harley asked me a similar question. Steve said something to the effect of : "Why did you stop doing what attracted him to you?" In other words, why did you stop being his girlfriend and become JUST A WIFE....

"If I could turn back the hands of time...."

LO,

Interesting thread. I saw all the signs of my H’s MLC, I supported, I nurtured, I listened. It was precipitated by his company selling out to a competitor, a company which he felt was his family. He vacillated between working for the new competitor, to taking some time off to try something new. I supported him through all of it. He decided to not work for the competitor, and decided to work as a cashier for Pep Boys (local automotive store). I told him that’s fine, however, with three kids, mortgage, car payments, it would not be a viable long term option. He took his severance and bought a sports car. I supported that idea.

However, when I requested he try to get another job at a reasonable payrate, he found the great job, and brand new replacement for me.

So, Low, are you saying because I wanted him to provide for his family, that I took away his dream to be a cashier at Pep Boys? Help me out here. I can take my share of the blame for the state of the marriage, but I cannot buy into the concept that I was not supportive enough through his MLC. He decided along with the sports car, that he needed a brand new younger GF to be the passenger. I supported him buying the sports car, even though we could have used the money to pay off debts.

I realized almost from the beginning about H’s MLC. I read about not trying to talk them out of it, to be supportive, to wait patiently, he would come back. To not threaten, cry or shut them out. I did all of that. He still found the younger OW.

I wanted to be the babe in the sports car next to him, but he chose someone else.

NOMO

I've been AFKB for quite while due to internet access issues.

I'm glad that this discussion has helped some.

For TAlone and NOMO, I'm sorry that you were supportive and things still went awry...that makes it doubly hard to understand.

I'll post individual replies to posts...

Of course not...although the post seems to have taken that turn. I was actually thinking about pre-A behaviors that can head off that need to seek outside support.



JMHO, I think the infidelity was more in reaction to your withdrawal than it was your dreamstorming.



What was he really afraid of? Have you talked about this? Had you ever given him reason to be afraid of joining you in dreamstorming? Have you ever really "run riot". What kinds of uncomfortable questions would he be asking himself? I'm not suggesting that you have done anything to precipitate his behavior, but just asking questions.

Have you ever been able to talk to him about how important dreamstorming is to you? Can you find out how to make it "safe" for him?

Can you devise some low risk "experiments" to prove to him that it can be done safely?

It would be a sad thing for you to suppress such a wonderful part of yourself. I fear that if you do not resolve this with your H, you'll become increasingly resentful and end up in your own "crisis". You will be very vulnerable to someone who is willing to dreamstorm with you.

Low

BR...



My wife told me this not long ago...that she appreciates me because I push her envelope sometimes.

I was quite pleasantly surprised, as I had this idea that I was being more of a PITA...

Low

I seriously doubt that it was his dream to be a Pep Boys cashier. It sounds like you did a lot of the right things, that perhaps the only thing that might have helped some would have been more clarity in your boundaries. Was he aware that financial support was important to you?

If it was, in fact, his dream to be a Pep Boys cashier, it would've been a better approach to go to him with a "how can we make this happen" mindset. I think that approach would've yielded better results than expressing your disappointment with his failure to provide.

Instead, I'm sure he told himself that he was nothing more than your meal ticket...and gave himself permission to find someone who could "really" appreciate him.

Like I said earlier, it's very, VERY important to protect your own boundaries while being "supportive". If you don't do this, you become inauthentic and your spouse picks up on that.

Even so, the final decision to have the affair was his and his alone. You're not responsible for that, and I'm certainly not suggesting that there's anything you did or didn't do to steer him into it.

How are things going now?

Low:

If you don't mind, what are your thoughts about CC46's H?

This is of interest because of your reference to NOMO's H seeing himself as a "meal ticket".

We've been trying to gain some understanding of CC's H's frame of mind...

I love those kinds of "learning experiences" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I don't know if I can help because cc46's H behavior may be driven by some cultural issues as well.

From what I can gather, men having mistresses in SA countries is not uncommon and is often something to be proud of. It's an indicator of wealth and virility.

He sounds wealthy enough to pull this off. He probably believes it is his right to have the mistress as long as he continues to meet his familial obligations.

It sounds like this is also potential LTA. If his affair is LTA, he probably has a good feel for how successful a marriage (or other LTR) with his mistress might be. There is little fear of the unknown for him. He knows the SA courts will favor him. He has chosen to leave the marriage rather than allow his W to dictate its terms to him.

Other than that, it really doesn't sound like the classic MLC that we're more familiar with.

After 8 months of Plan B with little change, I think cc46 should start planning for the eventual. He's had pleanty of time to get comfortable with his new life. Remember, Plan B is supposed to stress the affair by placing the burden of meeting ENs solely on the OP. It doesn't sound like that's working.

I haven't had time to read all her posts but it doesn't sound like she was in Plan A very long before she asked him to leave.

Thanks for helping out with CC, Low.

I respect your viewpoint.

You certainly are right on target regarding my FWH who definitely suffered a MLC.

It is an interesting and educational subject. I can see clearly NOW (too late...!) that my H started to feel depressed 3 years ago when he had a lot of pressuer - from work, our relationship, and our first baby. I was irritated back then b/c he was so weak that he could not handle "normal" stress. So what, I have a busy and stressful job too - and guess what, I was actually going through the pregnancy at the same time! So I was not supportive of H at that time. Besides, I did not know he was depressed. But what you listed makes sense. The difference is that it is possible that my H has not found anyone YET, but is so convinced that he can be mentally healthier without me. I do not know how to handle this.

I never considered my H as a meal ticket, he says he did not feel like a meal ticket. I was also working, but we were used to two incomes, and could not live forever on his earnings as a cashier.

In his MLC, he was confused, could not make up his mind about anything. He agreed that he should find a "real job" and found an even better job than he had. He also found a younger woman from our home country, which is rare in our state. So, right away, they had a lot in common.

Things are going well. He is connected to me as he used to be before the MLC. He apologizes for what happened, is sincerely sorry for the aftermath of his MLC.

Thanks for asking. I do appreciate that you post here, even if your views are not always understood. I just wanted you to know that some wives were not so clueless about the MLC, but it still did not help the damage and destruction that resulted in poor choices made.

Glad that you brought this subject up Low Orbit. Many people seem to have affairs during a low period of emotional stress in their lives. Death of a parent, the loss of a job, the empty nest syndrome, change of life, midlife crisis...the gamet goes on and on..... When you see your spouse changing in mood and personality don't move away to them but gather them closer. Sure give them their space to a degree but inquire and question what you can do to help make things better for them. Look out for changes in productivity, loss of interest in things that used to give them joy. Turning away from a strong value system that has always guided their lives. These could be serious signals or signs that a person is depressed, has an addiction problem, is bipolar....or just having a bad year that is full of events that has reached the point of no return.

Life has not guarantees. You can do everything the right way, go to school to get an education, get good grades, pursue a career in your field of choice and find you are at a dead end, crossroads..... place of no return. This occurs in many people during their careers. Help your spouse when they are needy. Women are often stronger than men because they have other women to help discuss their troubles and to encourage them....men often are afraid to express their emotions....to show their vulnerabilities.....to appear weak and not strong. They don't like admitting their weakness and needs for reassurance.

Whether male or female. We all want to be loved, respected for who we are and to be nurtured and cared for by someone who loves us even when we are unloveable.

We are not Stepford wives and husbands, robotic in actions and always doing the perfect thing. That is unrealistic. Not healthy. Grow together. Often times your strengths are your spouses weaknesses, and visa versa. That is why 2 people compliment each other because together they are whole ....apart they are only half of what they can be....

Support your spouse when they are low, blue, acting obnoxiously, having a short temper with you. There is probably a just cause. Sometimes you don't need to say a thing. Just hug and hold them during these troubled times and let them know if they need to talk about anything you are there always. To help. Not to be judgemental. Patience and nurturing your spouse will be the glues to keep your marriage strong and together.

LO, Thanks for the reminder that WS could have been in crisis or broken before the affair. I like that better than being force fed that a BS didn't meet their WS needs, so they (had to) find outside ways to have their needs met. I choke on those type threads and replies. This makes a better statement, then add to it that the WS owns the CHOICE to have an affair, and I think everyone's head will nod.

I'm not big on pollyanna type platitudes about how we all just should have had a group hug and sat around singing kum-by-ya. I think its just good sense to realize that a marriage is about both parties shouldering the load, caring about each other, and providing support. Where that breaks down is when selfishness and a taker-mentality emerge - a sense of entitlement, self-pity that no one cares so I'll just go eat worms.

Thanks for giving us a FWS perspective. I think you're a straight shooter and spot on.

Pendragon