I came to the same conclusion recently. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Ok, would you suggest starting with reading this particular book? Or follow through with what I started a couple days ago of actually identifing my needs, my goals, my dreams?

Also, curious if Harley believes a lifetime renter can become a buyer or if renters can live forever on "good behavior"? I do believe my H and I both have serious codependency issues. He seems to need to "rescue" as well as long as it is away from home. He family history is addicts and codependents.

Oh...just saw this one. Ok. I did recognize myself in the "sacrifice is valued" stuff you posted. I think I will get this particular book today.

I like this ... start at the source ... yourself.

If you don't know yourself, where else should you begin? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Next part will be

Dependency and Control ....

we'll work through it together .... coz as everyone on MB knows ... I've had personal issues of 'control' too <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> LOL

but .... this is a good start right here .... don't rush out for more 'info' until you have thoroughly dug up what your needs and desires and goals are .... more later ... got stuff to do

have a date later with my sweetie and gotta shave those legs ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> (not his legs, my legs)

Oh the picture in my mind.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Ok, so I will continue on with my personal exploration and not muck up my head with more books for the moment. Thanks, Pep. You truly are a gem. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Just wanted you to know I am still working on what I promised. I saw the Harley/Lewis thread too.

Well ... I am feeling far to silly to have a deep discussion today ... so let's put this off just a tad longer . because you know, I HONOR my silly side whenever she decides it's time to play <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I like silliness! Play away! I was looking for a silly witch for Mel. Haven't found the right one yet. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Ding, ding, ding...

Sorry, getting in late on this thread. I've been off having fun on a Mediterranean island with the kids while WH has been busy pretending he is a single man.

I've started reading the Language óf Letting Go and Co-dependent No More by Meloody Beatty. Although the books, particularily the Language of Letting Go are proving helpful stimuless for detatching emotionally from WH, I don't view myself as chronically co-dependant.

I see now that I will have to add ANOTHER book to the stack of R and self-improvement books that is growing next to my bedside.

Hmmmm.... detatching and changing into a Renter.
This makes sense. Changing from Buyer/Freeloader to Renter/Freeloader.....

but willing to negotiate for Buyer/Buyer. I won't settle for Renter/Renter or Buyer/Renter. And Renter/Freeloader is only temporary.

Harley says:

[color:"blue"]"What I'm saying is that your Taker needs to be enthusiastic about every decision. This doesn't rule out short-term sacrifice, though, because your Taker can be enthusiastic about some forms of sacrifice, if they're in your long-term interest." [/color]

[color:"red"]"But when you agree to something reluctantly, it means you are sacrificing with no personal gain in sight. You are doing it for someone else's gain. That's why your Taker usually tries to sabotage any agreement you have made reluctantly." [/color]

The Buyers approach to problem solving.

Byers don't try to control each other.

Buyers don't make demands.

Buyers don't show disrespect or lose their temper.

They solve their problems by negotiating solutions that are win/win.

dependency You are dependent when what you recive is not balanced by what you give in return.

How can we create a dependent spouse? When we are in the early/Renter romantic stages of a relationship, we tend to give and give and give ~~~> sacrifical giving. And all that giving creates a DEPENDENCY in our spouse. All that giving creates EXPECTATIONS that are unrealistic in a long-term romantic relationship.

Giving without wanting anything in return ~~~> the Giver is running wild and unchecked.

What does that create in the other spouse? Their Taker is given free reign. "gimme gimme gimme"

This sets up opportunity for abusive relationships where one spouse is giver heavy and the other is Taker heavy.

No balance. No give-take. The GIVER is the one who creates this ... by sacrificing and essentially training their spouses' Taker that there are no limits to how much sacrificing their spouse might submit to.

Control Once you reach a point where you have your spouse depending on you , you are now in a position to control your spouse.

While our Giver sets up dependency by encouraging us to give unconditionally, our Taker has no such generous motives.

Our Taker will not be denied ! Now that your spouse is dependant on you, your Taker wants to control what the spouse must do in order to payback for all the sacrificing !!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

So if my Giver-gone-wild has set up my spouse to become dependant on me ... what happends to my Taker side? My Taker begins to feel that this situation is terribly unfair, and starts to grumble and complain ... and then make demands, start fights and generally tries to control my spouse... and I might even run off and have an affair "Because I have done so much for this marriage and never get anything in return ... it's MY TURN to do something just for me"

yuk

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> Ok, I see..yes that is what happened. A little difference being that my H was a very giving man UNTIL he moved in with me. That spun my head for quite a while and my Taker was roaring! As we settled into marriage and parenthood my giver was in charge until my Dd was about 2. Then my taker got pissed again. That is when my A came in.

Honor your Taker as much as your Giver FF ... I think that is the lession I am getting from all of this

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

pep,


Thats my WH ... what you just said reminds me of what he told me over and over since this crap happened.

its My Turn ..... Famous last words...... spoken by a WH who don't know his head from a hole in the ground....

Problem is he gave no more that I did ...... He just got stupid....

I am making my slow, clumsy attempts at this Pep. Changing the dynamic of a family is difficult but I am liking how it feels to me. My angry moments come when I let my giver rule the world. At least now I am becoming aware of it and stop. Baby steps of progress.

I would be very careful if I were you .... think about this a bit more ... try to find your weakness not his ...

yeah, that's correct .... and then, the angry outburst just feels "so justified" ... know what I mean ... and the release of pressure then allows the UBER-Giver to take over once more...

more yuk

That makes so much sense.

It's easy to see how such an environment could be created without anyone even realizing it.

Thank you!

I am meandering my way toward a major discussion about POJA .... stick around FIM.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

POJA is my goal post and I wanna make a touchdown ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />