thanks for following LA.

I'm at the courthouse now waiting to see a judge. FWW would not put herself as plaintiff because she doesn't want to see him again. I said I'd go talk to a judge to see if it made more sense for her to file and if so would she have to appear in the same room with him.

I'm furious right now. I called to ask her what his bday was for the paperwork and she said didn't know. I pointed out that she sent him a GIFT on his bday so she SHOULD know.

Anyway.

She's dodging, IMO, MDC...

She's rattled...this is real...this is a direct consequence of her own choices and actions...

She may not want to see him...she would choose to do so to protect her marriage and her husband...necessary. And this filing doesn't necessitate her seeing him, does it? He might not appear, which will be when?

Could this be why her not remembering his bday triggered you? Not facing up to the consequences?

If you were less stressed right now, you would see her not remembering--NOT CARING--as a good thing...not a SHOULD thing...watch your own intent, MDC...and I'm not saying you're wrong to feel as you do...you've got some overlap, I think, in what you're doing and what you're believing...

All tough stuff...accountability builds character...we build our own by asking for it...and following through.

In your corner,

LA

You are right this is very real. I know she's dodging. This is a healthy exercise to bring her back into reality.

He can contest. If he does it will go to hearing.

MDC,

Do you remember choosing to inject respect was getting out of the way of what wasn't yours?

Get out of the way now. Leave the courthouse. Tell your wife you have full faith in her to sign on as plantiff, to deal with this, because you believe in her and your marriage.

Tell her you will be the co-plantiff (you can do that, I think)...and that your marriage is the second plantiff (man, are you seeing just how legal-less I really am?)...

She can't dodge consequences...you can buffer them. Take over. Block. All of your choices matter.

Withdrawal is a hard time, MDC...as you're experiencing...and from seeing your enthusiasim before, I think you like to take action...cure...stop pain...harrassment...and in withdrawal, staying present is a potent action...and limited.

I believe your WW is on the verge of earning her F...and that's priceless...please think this through...you may have to use all your willpower to restrain your deep desire to fix or protect...and get out of the way. That's action. That's part of the hero's journey.

This is the second time...you got in the way the first...please, MDC...stay in reality, calm and respectful...and know she can do this...she is fully capable.

(((MDC))))

LA

LA - I say this undefinsively. When did I get in the way the first time?

So if I get out of WWs way on this and she does nothing, then what? She would never have signed onto this on her own. And that's not a DJ. She would NOT have volunteered to go on the front end of a RO until something bad happened. And maybe not even then. So if WW will not protect us then who will? Right. Me. Just like I have been protecting us.

I see exactly what you mean. Once I appeared before the judge it became crystal clear how much more meaning this would have to me and OM if WW was plaintiff. Would be more meaningful to the court too since 90% of the harassing contact was directed at her and not me. I feel there's a chance that the RO could be quashed if he contests. Feel that there is NO chance it could be quashed if WW was plaintiff. I can't use any contact that was directed at her with me as plaintiff. I told her as much. Did not ask her to do anything. Just spelled out how much more meaningful it was for her to be on the front end.

I was grumbling to myself on the way to the car about how ONCE again I'm doing something to make it easier on HER. I'm doing this because SHE doesn't want to face him. It feels like I do a lot of this in our M. Accommodate for her.

She would think differently. Since she sees the RO as unnecessary, an act that will only make more trouble. So if she were listed as plaintiff she would martyr herself as having had to do something for me. And when the court day came and seeing him and hearing him was terrible for her, she would be angry at ME. I understand this is not guaranteed behavior on her part and I'm making assumptions but this is the PATTERN. Do you see??

The RO has been granted for 1 year. It's effective once it's been served. I have to hire a process server to deliver it. Once delivered he can contest it in writing at any time during the 1 year period. Once contested the court will set a date within 10 days. He and I will appear in court where he can cross-examine me about the claims. I fully expect him to contest.

OM's attorney: Why is your wife not here with you supporting you?

MDC: Because OM is irrelevant to her. I am the spiritual leader of my family and it's protector. She is not here because we have decided as a family that she need not have any contact with OM as he is insignificant in our lives. Because he has continually and persistently refused to accept NO CONTACT REQUEST I am here defending my family from his wicked attempts to interfere and reignite his relevance in our lives.

OM's A: Did you threaten to kill OM?

MDC: No

OM's A: We have supporting testimony and affidavit's that you did threaten to kill OM...Are you sure you wouldn't like to change your answer???

MDC: When I found out he was having an illicit affair with my wife I might have said "I wished him dead" or something to that effect. My wish versus what he actually did to harm me, my kids and my wife is not even comparable. If he wants a reciprocal restraining order I'll stipulate to such right here and now....as long as he honors my families request to NO CONTACT with us whatsoever.


I believe OM's Attorney MAY be able to call your wife as a witness and demand her presence. Your attorney can object and might win such objection. If not, your attorney can likely file a motion that such testimony be taken ex parte (out of court, perhaps by video, affidavit or in the judge's chambers) based upon your wife's desire not to see him. I believe most judges will honor such request based upon the circumstances.

A problem I foresee. Maybe the judge, in fact, orders reciprocal restraining orders but such restraining order does not include your entire family. OM can attempt to contact your wife freely and YOU would be restrained from responding to him personally. Your wife would have to then respond (or preferably, perhaps, ignore him).

Personally I wish your wife would sign on and testify. Stand before the court and end this in person to his face. It may be contact but it would sure put a stop to his nonsense.

Mr. Wondering

Good stuff Mr. W.

The judge I saw today granted an injunction against harrassment which is the best I could hope for in this case. It takes effect when it gets served. I have expressed to W how much more effective having her as plaintiff would be. With respect to our injunction against him, my gut tells me that since the evidence of his harrassment to W since 6/9 is SO overwhelming the injunction could not be quashed. On paper, his harrassment of me looks pretty thin - a single phone call and 4 emails...

With respect to his claims against me, would they not be irrelevant in a hearing that's concernend with an injunction against him?

Worse case scenario what kind of action could he take against me for this supposed threat I made? It would ONLY be a restraining order - which is civil. No grounds for criminal charges are there?

I'm not going to get a lawyer for this. I can't afford it for one... I heard that some companies cover legal expenses in some cases for their employees. I wonder if that's what's going on with OM.

This is all so damn ridiculous.

Did you make a direct threat to om? If you said it to somebody else I believe that would just be hearsay.

Take care
Scott

It would NOT be hearsay if the person MDC supposedly said it to appeared in court to offer a first hand account of the conversation. OM couldn't testify to what his XW said that MDC said to his XW. That WOULD be hearsay.

I don't believe his XW WOULD show up and testify against you so willingly. Besides anything you did say would be completely justifiable to any person in the court room. No criminal charges are available to OM as it is a free country and you can SAY you want to put a bullet in anyone's head if you wish. It's the actions backing up the words which become potentially prosecutable.

Remember, any such threat pales in comparison to the ACTIONS he ACTUALLY DID to assist in the destruction of your family. HE actually murdered your heart and no judge or jury will likely ever sympathize with his plight.

Don't allow his shenanigans to stir up hatred in your heart. OM's irrelevance to your family must also include you. Fight OM with honor and the truth in court if you must and don't allow his demons tempt you into hatred. Resist the urge to allow thoughts of him consume you...NO MATTER WHAT HE DOES. If you ever have to confront him in court look upon his lost soul with disinterest at the least and if you can muster it, empathy. Hatred is just to much power to give him. REMEMBER THESE WORDS, OM becoming irrelevant to the BH is often the last hurdle to this sordid mess. You may not be ready to release it today or soon, but recognize it as YOUR challenge.

Mr. Wondering

Did not make a direct threat to OM. I was talking to his wife. He's been harping on this "shoot him in the head" thing since 5/3. I didn't make any threats on his life while talking to her.

Mr. W. Thank you. Until Monday when he made claims about legal action against me, what you describe is EXACTLY what I felt about OM. Pity. Indifference. He really was irrelevant. I had little if any hate for him. NOW - since Monday - I DO find myself consumed. And find myself hating. I know it's not good. The name calling, blaming, etc. I can handle. This is a whole new level that I'm going to have to adjust to.

You are 100% absolutely right.

BTW a criminal charge can be made from a threat. Based on what I've read, threatening speach is not protected.



Based on the above it does appear that (true to your comments) context is HUGELY important. I WILL face OM with honor, truth and courage. And NOT give myself to the hate that is so ready to consume me.

OW got me for communicating a threat, she wasn't credible and they just dropped it and it didn't go on my record.

I did call om's work and say I would shoot him if I caught him and my wife together,
actually I told them I was crazy and might do anything but their company vehicle would
be alll over 6 oclock news so I wanted to warn them. They didn't do anything either.
If they do file charges an attorney can get you right out of it esp since he had an a with your wife.

Take care
Scott

Wow, OH. If you were ok them I'm going to be fine. Thanks for sharing.

Think of how ridiculous OM will sound trying to go to the police and later, on the witness stand trying to ACT like he was so "immediately" fearful of you and your "imminent" threat and that he "reasonably" feared for his life IN CONTRAST WITH THE FACT he then proceeded to continually harass, interact and make contact with you and your wife.

If he was so scared why would he risk such?????

My brother is a prosecutor...they are NOT readily willing to involve themselves in domestic affairs. They must take his claim and perhaps give it a cursory investigation and then shelf it.

If you get questioned calmly and with slight bemusement explain your side of the story and vehemently deny any such threat. Question any investigator with the above fact..."if he was scared of me why would he continual call, email and try to personally involve himeself in our lives?????....This claim is just more of the same. We just want him out of our lives forever...can YOU make that happen and tell this Bozo to leave us alone?"

If the conversation continues, again point out that YOU are his victim and this bogus claim is merely a ruse in response to your filing a restraining protective order against him (Case number XX-343242 gc in the 32nd District Court).

That will very likely be the end of any such investigation.

Be sympathetic to any investigator just doing his/her job and thank him/her for their attention to this matter. Advise him that you hope this matter can be resolved without charges being filed against you...you just want this over. However, you should request that in the event they do intend to proceed that the investigator provide you with a courtesy head's up so you can proceed retain an attorney and file reciprocal charges against him for similiar threats, extortion (cause he threatened repeatedly to bring you up on criminal charges if you didn't do what he said), Assualt & battery (upon your wife), and any other charge you and your attorney can think of...if you don't proceed then I don't want to waste your time with MY REAL claims. You see, that's what the investigators don't want...more paperwork and more frivolous claims to investigate when it's all just a domestic dispute and irrelevant to them anyway.

Mr. Wondering

MDC,

Looking for the benefits...God's touch...right now...in this...

You found out others here truly have your back...MrW, especially. You found out facts to fight your fear assumptions...the places you went in your head...you asked for and were given what you needed, when you needed it...God's promise fulfilled in your life. On record. Validated with an RO. Documented and taken seriously...

These help with making your pain of betrayal real and you, less helpless? If you had moments of feeling crazy for what you felt...for finding out at MB how often, how saddening all this was...how deeply you are and were affected...does this validation realign you?

I wasn't taking that away from you...your intent is pure, MDC...without a doubt in my mind...and God is aiding you, fully, by your intent...your actions do not have to be perfect, nor do what you believe they will...please believe in yourself and God's faith in YOU...

Now, sharing all that is in you...knowing you don't have to be perfect...just perfectly human. Will you probe that rage tooth and find out if focusing on OM's audacity and grandiosity helped ease something in you...which was aimed toward your FWW? Maybe something that clogged your throat, your truth...numbed, even?

You are worth your highest honesty...your deepest truth. So is your marriage. Please keep posting...and speaking it.

LA

Mr. W - thanks for pointing out the forest. I'm allowing myself to get eaten up & losing objectivity in the process.

LA - wow. Your post had a big effect on me. Thank YOU for pointing out the benefit. I DO feel better for having been validated by the judge. And for taking action on MY behalf if not my family's.

I think this rage might be a passing wave of emotion. I know these waves well. They are intense and then...gone. MBers have helped me get through all of them since I started posting on 4/14.

This too shall pass.

See, sometimes, I do good, eh?

:::preening:::

Yer welcome, MDC.

LA

LA - you're the best.

Nah, I'm equal to ya, though...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

How are you today?

LA

Hi MDC,

I just saw your call out to me. I've been trying to stay away from reading other posts on this site b/c it gets me depressed, so I'm not sure when you wrote this.

I don't know your sitch at all, I kind of skimmed over your last couple posts. What specifically did you want to ask me? I will try to help.

I am a court reporter so I'm not too famililar with all the law, but I do sit in on a lot of Protection from Abuse cases (I believe this is the equivalent to your RO). Also, you have to tell me what state you're from b/c every state is different. First let me ask you....is this in front of a judge at the courthouse or a district judge (justice of the peace) at his office?

I hope I will be able to answer some of your questions. I can always ask one of my lawyer friends, too, if you have a specific question I can't answer.

--Sarah