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BigK, I guess that makes sense in a weird sort of way. Which is why I asked for clarification. It had never ever crossed my mind that TV might be an EN. Interesting.


A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
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If you are looking for a fix that is up to you. Can you sit and watch some TV with him?

of course the answer is a can. but i have not choosen to now have i? i think i need to fight off the unenthusastic feeling and just do it.

during the school year i had homework duty to blame. and house keeping.

but lately, it has been obvious to me, i don't really try to engage in being with him enough. i hide behind activities.

i'm going to have to
a) just knock it off.
and
b) try to dig a bit to figure out why i've been hiding.

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regarding if it really is one of his needs or not...

i think it is a fairly safe assumption. i know for a fact
giving him a foot rub at the same time is definitely something he likes.

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FLs - How about planning the TV time instead of surfing the channels for ages. Can't you get some kind of TV guide and make a list of the shows he likes to watch. There must be some you also enjoy.

My WH's idea of heaven would be watching TV with cups of tea being served and having his feet rubbed. I often used to sit and watch programs I'm not interested in to be with him. Also, he likes TV on just for the sake of it whether he's watching it or not. It was/and is the same in his house growing up. TV was always on and his dad was in charge of the remote.

Maybe make a note of exactly how much time he watches the TV for a week. You never know, it might shock him into realising he is a couch potato. Personally, I'm guilty of too much time at the computer. I don't know the answer FLs but I do understand your frustration. TT

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This hit a real chord with me. I don't know if H started watching more TV when I started using the computer a lot more but he and DS spend HOURS in front of it. If there's nothing on they go and get a dvd. I find TV totally boring. I used to like it but now the programmes are so crappy I just can't be bothered.

I'm also not allowed to speak or ask either of them what's happened before I arrived in the room. It's sort of funny but it isn't. He watches movies, the History channel and that sort of thing. DS enjoys the same sort of thing and they sit in companionable silence. Silence is a foreign word to me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Part of the problem is our schedules. He works on a Saturday which is my blob out day so by Sunday I'm ready to do something. Sunday is his blob out day and the TV goes on first thing and stays on most of the day. By Monday, when I'm back at work, he's ready to do something.

I'm sure he'd be happy to do something on a Sunday if I suggested it. I've also noticed that I just have to wink at him and say I'm going to bed (when DS isn't there) and whatever is on TV suddenly becomes very boring to him. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I also think TV watching is a completely passive thing to do, unlike reading. I'm sure it's used a lot to avoid communication (in a lot of cases). I'm certainly guilty of spending too much time on the computer.

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I am going to lean more toward watching TV being a habit than being an EN. But that is me. I was raised on TV. Night and day. It was a really bad habit. I bet I used to watch TV at least five hourse a day. Now I don't watch much at all - if any. I am not sure why either.

I will say that WW can listen to music all day long. I can't. I find I need something to occupy a lot of my senses. This is why I don't find reading very interesting. I get more sensory saturation with TV. So part of it may just be how your husband's mind works. I found that I had to trade TV for something equally as challenging to the senses. So I found certain behaviors that were good substitutes and adopted them.

I also make rules for myself for watching TV. I record programs at night and I put a TV and VCR in the garage where my Bowflex is and I only let myself watch TV when I am working out. I just watched a movie and can barely lift my arms.

I guess my point is that maybe you could think of helping your husband find alternatives to his need to watch TV. I love to play golf but I find watching it to be fairly boring. If I find myself starting to watch golf, I force myself to go to the driving range, for example.

I admit I turn the TV on at night to help relax before going to bed. The TV has been on every night this week and I haven't watched a single program. I usually end up talking to WW or fighting with DDs so they will go to sleep. Last night WW was watching the world cup and actually kicked me out of bed when Ukraine scored a goal. DD1 came in and told her to be quiet because she was trying to sleep.

If husband is addicted to TV, it is hard to just stop. It is easier to divert a freight train than to stop it cold.

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an EN i don't want to meet.
You haven’t told us which emotional need of your husbands you do not want to meet.

but i do believe joining your spouse to watch tv can be an EN.
Being with the spouse is the key here. Watching tv is not an emotional need.
In the 15 hours a week of undivided attention a week, TV does not count, movies (even on date ) almost never count.
Interactionis the key. Sitting in front of the TV and even making a few comments are NOT undivided attention.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3300_needs.html
Affection
Sexual Fulfillment
Conversation
Recreational Companionship
Honesty and Openness
Physical Attractiveness
Financial Support
Domestic Support
Family Commitment
Admiration


Prayers & God Bless!
Chris
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Watching TV "with me" can be just as much of an EN as going for a walk "with me" or bike riding "with me". EN's are, as bigkahuna pointed out, in the eye of the beholder. For some, it can fall in the category of a habit when he/she can't find something prductive to do, and sometimes (like with my two teenagers) it becomes a bit like an addiction when you just can't stand to NOT find out what happens on your favorite soap/drama/sporting event. Most people don't *need* someone sitting next to them to partake in the brain drain of television (sorry, my prejudice is showing), but there are people for whom it truly is something they consider recreation that they want to share with a companion.

My FWH has never filled out any of the questionairres. He never identified EN's as such, but he has told me very specifically that one of the things the FOW "did" for him was to sit on the couch and watch TV with him. I believe my not-so-LB-free response had to be something to the effect of "You have GOT to be KIDDING!", because I literally had no idea that planting myself down in front of the tube with a bowl of popcorn was something that could ever be "constructive". To him, it is. It ranks up there with sitting on the back of his motorcycle for a long ride. There is no interaction other than body contact--no conversation, no undivided attention, not really any active physical affection other than having an arm rubbed or something that doesn't require any real thought. However, another one of the things my H said he'd love to do with me was scuba diving. Nothing "shared" there other than the experience. And that, apparently, is the draw. Being there with him as life is being lived. Or, as in the case of TV watching, as little brain cells die off and are replaced with yet another stupid line to quote. NOT my idea of marriage building, but it means *something* to him. I suppose the trick is finding shows/movies that we both would be interested in without ending up in a catatonic state!

FLs, you haven't really said whether or not TV viewing is something you have discussed with your H (in a nonthreatening way when he's not trying to watch it, that is), but I think judging by your intensifying frustration level that it may be in order. You really need to let him know that it is bothering you, and it's pretty important also to find out if it's something he actually wants you to be part of or if he's just sitting there vegging out by force of habit and lack of "anything better to do". If necessary, kidnap the man and take him to a quiet restaurant where the two of you can talk! You'd probably not feel so jilted if there were other things you were doing together as a couple that would qualify as recreational companionship, right? An hour or two of having time for yourself wouldn't be so much of an issue if you knew you could count on that undivided attention, correct?


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Chris,

i do think joining him to watch TV can really be filling an EN of his. I think it would fall under recreation companionship. I agree it does NOT qualify as being counted toward the undivided attention time. that is not what was being discussed. or are you meaning to say that ENs are only being filled during the quality time?

however, you do bring up a good point. we bearly spend 15 mins a day of quality time.

to all those that had good advice as to how to curtail the amount to TV my DH watches... i don't think he would see it as doing him any favor.

yes we have talked about it, i have asked (at times when the tv was off) if we could have 1 evening a week were there is no tv and he has agreed but then it does not happen. if we are home, the tv is on, usually before i even manage to get my shoes off and walk into the living room.

i'll be away from the computer all day today. going on a "fieldtrip" with my daughter (dressing up as alphaba from Wicked, green face and all, and going to a sing-a-long celebration). it should be a lot of fun <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> this is quality time, (this is why my DD and I have such a great relationship).

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FL

You gotta do a ENQ. The process is as useful as the knowledge of a spouses ENS is IME. Forces all parties to think actively about their ENs and also their fulfilment of their own and their spouses ENs.


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Ghost,

Could it be that you suffer from the same malady as I do? The technical name for it is:
"follow-through-phobia". <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Translation: the fear and/or apparent inability to follow through.

As long as you've been reading and posting here... you've never filled out the EN questionaire? And your husband even said he's willing to do it? See what I mean.

And what happens is... you know you should just do it. It bugs you that you haven't. You come here and blow off some steam about it... get it off your chest... then just let it slide. But the matter doesn't get resolved.

As for the TV issue, here's what I see: Your husband's constant TV watching bugs the living daylights out of you because you'd like to be getting some of that attention. You know... putting aside all the MB jargon about meeting EN's and avoiding LB's and all that... I think it's okay to admit it when one or more of your spouse's habits drives you nuts and makes you unhappy.

But don't stop there... (she said, thinking she should take her own advice).

Tell me if I have this right, okay? You did initiate a conversation with him, asking him for one TV-free night a week... but the two of you didn't pick a specific night... and when HE didn't follow through on it... neither did you.

You come home each night and the TV's already on... so you think, "Well, maybe tomorrow". Or worse yet, you think, "Maybe he didn't really mean it. Another disappointment. I give up." But maybe... he's just waiting for you to take the lead.

As in...

"Mr. Ghost, remember we said we'd spend some time together once a week with the TV off? I was wondering... would you like to do that tonight? Maybe after you've had an hour or so to watch and unwind? Or was there something specific you really wanted to watch tonight? If so, maybe tomorrow night...?"

Whadda ya think?

Hope you had an AWSOME time on your daughter's field trip!

Hugs,
--SC


"I require more from my spouse than behaving well in order to avoid pain." (guess who)
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FL,

I think you have gotten some really good advice here. I agree that the ENQ should be a priority to you.

As I stated before sometimes one partner believes that doing something for the other is filling a big need and it is not. Why focus your energy and attention into something that won't get you the deposits you want. He may not even consider you watching TV with him a deposit. Or again it may be a 1 on his emotional needs.

As you said he likes footrubs. That will get you a deposit into the LB. That may take say 15-30 minutes and in return you have made a big deposit. You can watch TV for 2 hours with no deposit.

Look at the ENQ as a blueprint or path into getting the biggest return on your investment. It will let you work smarter not harder to earn those deposits.

To be honest if my FWW watched TV with me I wouldn't think it was all that great nor would I consider it a deposit into the LB. Unless she was laying down next to me cuddling or massaging my feet.

IMHO TV creates a distance between two people it does not bring them together. Can you talk and actively listen?

One last thing instead of saying I want one night without TV why not try saying. You know I really enjoy spending time with you. On Thursdays can we take a nice walk after dinner then play a few games. Or make thursday night Icecream and game night.

Instead of pointing out what you don't want point out what you do want.


BS 38
FWW 35
D Day 10/03
Recovery started 11/06
3 boys 12, 8 and a new baby


When life hands you lemons make lemonade then try to find the person life hands vodka and have a party.
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Dr Harley says Peanut Butter Sandwiches can be an EN
Where does it say this? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />


Prayers & God Bless!
Chris
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but there are people for whom it truly is something they consider recreation that they want to share with a companion.
Sitting there is not sharing anything.
If you were to acknowledge each other, discuss the plot & the characters, and what the writer was trying to get across, it would be something.
If you are not interacting with your spouse, or doing something the spouse will benefit from (such as making dinner or having a job to pay bills), then there is no emotional "need" component to it.

he has told me very specifically that one of the things the FOW "did" for him was to sit on the couch and watch TV with him.
That is because he was in lust at the time.
Also in his brain, he is rewriting what he felt at the time, because he was in lust, sitting next to her made him giddy.

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In my M, I'm the TV watcher. My FWH, like Pio, grew up in front of the TV and hates it now. I grew up with no TV, except football and the news, so I'm addicted.

Plus, if your H is mostly watching sports, he's probably tied to these far more than one would be if they just watched sit coms or reality series. I'm truly hooked on watching sports (btw, the ending of the US open was truly memorable, too bad you weren't sitting with your H during that one...he would have HAD to talk to you then). When the 18th hole with the final pairing came up, I had to hush my children, who were constantly asking questions, too.

If your H likes sports, it's tough to get him to break away long enough to answer dozens of questions. I hate it when newbies interrupt me with basic questions, but I love talking about details with knowledgable audiences. Honestly, I get nervous when my H joins me on the sofa. I know he tsk tsks the idiodic shows I watch, and I don't want to hear his condescension.

BTW, I LOVE backgammon, play it all the time. Ideally, I love to play backgammon while watching football on TV. My H doesn't play board games, either, and that's a big EN of mine. My dad said it would probably be a source of problems down the road in our M, and I dismissed him. Dad was right. I wish H would play board games, but I can't expect him to change just for me.

As a TV addict, I'd have to say

Don't take it personally.

If he happens to be the type who likes it when you snuggle up and collect some affection points while he's tubing, then great. If not, I wouldn't LB him about it. When ever my H gives me grief about my TV habits, I get defensive and aggravated. Not exactly good for happy times around the house. Try not to be too judgemental, and focus on the stuff you can both enjoy.

Only 2.5 months before NCAA football season starts. I can't wait, but FWH is dreading it, I'm sure!


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<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
Actually, my “h” is non-existent.
(You replied to me)

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but there are people for whom it truly is something they consider recreation that they want to share with a companion.
Sitting there is not sharing anything.
If you were to acknowledge each other, discuss the plot & the characters, and what the writer was trying to get across, it would be something.
If you are not interacting with your spouse, or doing something the spouse will benefit from (such as making dinner or having a job to pay bills), then there is no emotional "need" component to it.

Chris, I never attempted to say that sharing the couch for two hours of boob-tubing was undivided attention or that there was anything "gained" by sitting there with him. HOWEVER, like I said, my H also equates motorcycle riding (certainly no possibility of "sharing" anything other than a seat) and scuba diving with togetherness. It's not the ability to engage in ANY conversation that he is interested in. It's the need to have a warm body next to him. No, it's not useful for our marriage--but it's something he had wanted from me for years, and because I had equated TV watching with the likes of a slow, painless lobotomy, I didn't think it had any importance. To *ME*, it has no importance, but to *HIM*, it does.

Quote
he has told me very specifically that one of the things the FOW "did" for him was to sit on the couch and watch TV with him.
That is because he was in lust at the time.
Also in his brain, he is rewriting what he felt at the time, because he was in lust, sitting next to her made him giddy.

Actually, the lust FOLLOWED the long hours on the couch. The EA developed as a result of the time the FOW had to sit on the couch and do nothing, whereas I couldn't stand it. I'm not sure why that's so incomprehensible, really. You know, not all humans think and feel the same way. Something that seems unimportant to one person may be a huge deal to someone else. And to my H, it was important that he have somebody sitting next to him while he was vegging out in front of the TV. That was quite literally the ONLY "recreational companionship" that they shared. No, they didn't discuss plot twists; I'd actually be surprised if she could do that at all. They watched Jay Leno and David Letterman and the comedy channel. Very little to discuss, but having someone take the time to sit there and "veg out" with him made feel important. It's something I'm still learning how to do.

My H, on the other hand, has learned that if he can somehow find a way to pass on a little affection to me while I'm sitting there with him watching TV, it becomes MUTUALLY fulfilling. I don't feel so bored and dejected. He does NOT want me discussing things with him while he's watching TV, but conversation is high on my list. This is a balance we have still not figured out. But I know he decompresses by watching TV, and I know he wants me sitting there next to him for at least some of that time, so I'm not going to begrudge him.

Oh, and as for the peanut butter sandwiches....I consider myself a pretty accomplished cook. I can think of maybe three times in our nearly 17-year-marriage that my H hasn't liked something I made (and one of those was my only attempt at low-carb baking for his benefit...NEITHER of us liked it), and I very rarely prepare meals that are bland or boring. However, on more than several occasions, he has all but BEGGED me to make him a PB&J sandwich, because he loves them. I never even considered PB&J something you'd want if you had *better* options available. But every now and then, we all need to be babied, right? Did you ever read the thread (I don't remember how long ago it was) called "No more hamburgers"? It spoke of continually offering someone far more than what they were needing--giving them hamburgers when what they really needed was a drink of water. Sometimes what someone "needs" is far more simple than we may believe, and we often discount their "needs" as ridiculous. It's dangerous (especially in marriage) to TELL someone that what they believe they *need* isn't really a *need*, but that it's just something they *want*. I believe Harley calls it a disrespectful judgment. Take someone at their word. When they say they 'need' something, it's obviously something they consider a high priority.

FL's may not add any love units into her H's account by sitting and watching TV with him, because she doesn't know yet if it's something he likes to do alone or with someone sitting there with him. She DOES know that he likes footrubs. That's something she can do for him. But again, it all comes down to knowing what your spouse's EN's are and how he or she prefers those EN's to be met. Can scuba diving be recreational companionship? Can motorcycle riding? If they can (and I believe there are MANY who believe they can be), then so can watching TV. In fact, watching movies and TV are even on the Recreational Enjoyment Inventory. They may not be Emotional Needs in and of themselves, but even Dr. Harley acknowledges that some people want to do these things WITH someone else. That makes them ways to meet the EN for recreational companionship.


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When you first started this thread, I hesitated to point out that Harley specifically addresses television, I just can't remember exactly where.

The main trouble with Television is that it discourages true emotional connection/conversation.

It's good for quiet time together, in a healthy relationship, but I have seen literally dozens of bad marriages where the couple was completely disconnected but were able to spend time in front of the tv every night. All that TV time did nothing to enhance their relationship.


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Here’s a good link which talks directly to the point of watching television.
How to Overcome Independent Behavior
I'm sick of my husband's addiction to television. He's a sports addict, which I understand. When he was single and wanted to get married, one of his chief complaints was that he was tired of being alone watching TV and having no one to talk to.
“ (click above to read the rest...)

Another... (yes, I know this speaks to undivided attention as opposed to ENs but it is relevant)
The Policy of Undivided Attention
“When you see a movie together, the time you are watching it doesn't count toward your time for undivided attention (unless you behave like the couple who sat in front of my wife and me last week!). It's the same with television and sporting events.“

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