And I do believe in it as a first approach because I have seen it's effectiveness. But you have to use the approach that suits you, while I use the one that suits me and the one I deem most effective. Personally, I think it is bad idea to greet cruelty with nice words, but that is your own prerogative, we each have our own posting style.

And unfortunately, we cannot control the posting styles of others, you can only control YOUR OWN posting style.

Attempting to dictate the "TONE" or POSTING STYLES of others is playing the behavior police; it is an attempt to control others. On the other hand, resisting your control is not EQUIVALENT behavior. OBJECTING to your attempt to control others is not any more self contradicting than defending one from killing you is "controlling" them. She is not trying to control you, just asking that you stop trying control others, in other words.

Telling others how to post also presumes that you are qualified to tell others how to behave, which really is very arrogant and offensive. And really - REALLY - will result in frustration because you won't be successful in that endeavor. I promise ya! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

[color:"red"]EGG ZAK LEE [/color]

Ahhhhhnold

You missed the fireworks

the really big ones

when I blasted Mrs Wondering when she was a newbie .... she was one crazy mixed up girl ... she kicks azz now <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

and NewBeginningsII ..... well .... she and I were like oil and water .... and we are almost complete opposite personality types .... but we gradually formed a tolerance for each other .... then a gradual admiration for each other ... and now, I like her lots and I trust her advice , even if I disagree, I trust her advice

so the *fireworks* you see on THIS puny thread ... they ain't nothing special

you missed the BIG SHOW hunny ....

so if you want my opinion

sit back & relax

you give pretty damn decent advice yourownself .... but just observe some of the interactions ... they have a way of working themselves out over time

if this newbie chickie ever comes back wanting advice on how to RE-connect with her hubby .... she will be met with flowers & balloons... we might throw a parade in her honor <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

right now .... she's on a greased sled heading straight for heII & there is no stopping her

Pep

Yeppers she sho did and I sho wuz...And I VERY much needed it and heeded it...A couple of her posts still resonate in my thoughts...If I do "kick azz" now, it's partly because Pep and others kicked my azz upon arrival at MB...I remain grateful...I needed the brass tacks and got 'em here...

Mrs. W

Ahnold,

There is something I think you may have not quite gotten. So permit me to explain as best I understand.

When someone comes here, a BS or a WS, no one knows them, and probably will never know them. No one which approach will work for all of them or with all of them. Now you may be surprised to hear that BS's get the 2x4 at least as much as WS does here. Why a BS? Because they say they are following the plan and then won't for example: expose the A. Won't draw their boundaries, won't...whatever.

The WS gets the 2x4 most often because they are so deep in the fog that "logic" will not work. But what does work is for either the WS or the BS to receive many different approaches to the same message. If you feel the "gentle" touch is more likely to work, then by all means use it.

What you will see is that the BS and WS will begin to pick and choose who they will listen to. They will begin to focus on the message that is getting through. They need the angst, the no holds barred 2x4, and the gentle touch, and often they need all of them at different times. We don't necessarily know the time.

So what seems to work best is that they receive the message in many different forms. Your greatest value here is to communicate in YOUR form with those you choose to help. It will be sincere and hopefully effective. Mel has her style, Pep has hers, NB has hers, WAT has his, I have mine. Hopefully one of these styles will get through.

Now if what I am saying makes sense to you, then you can see why some responded as they did to you. They don't want to curb your approach, but they are most comfortable in their own approach.

Yup it is sort of a shotgun approach, but given the limited knowledge any one has of others here, it seems amazingly effective.


Does this make sense? I hope so.

JL

[color:"red"] EGG ZAK LEE [/color]

..... and furthermore .... the fellow posters we have the MOST difficulty interacting with ... often present us with an opportunity to improve our marriage communication skills !!!

The posters you want to strangle .... if you can find ways to say your piece ~without~ getting frustrated and managing to control your own emotional response .... you may have inadvertently improved your marital communication skills....

it's a weird sideways benifit of posting here .... SELF-SOOTHING is a marriage skill we can practice here!


listen carefully to the ones who annoy you .... and pay attention to how you want to knee-jerk respond to him/her ... it's absolutely fascinating!

Pep

And can I just say, this newbie hasn't even been gone from the board for 24 hours at this point. Some people actually work.

well ok - maybe 20 minutes more than 24 hours. send out the search party

This work you speak of...It's in your Aussie textbooks, right? Has to be...How else would an Aussie know about workin'? Don't you just spend all your time playin' the didgeridoo and tossin' the boomerang to and fro? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

G'day Mate! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. W <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I read this post and couldn't get beyond this. Get your head on straight. My WW just told me she 'settled' when she married me because it was the 'safe and secure' route. Don't EVER say that to your husband. You might as well just tear his heart out with your bare hands and eat it in front of him.

Figure it out. If you really did 'settle,' then you are a terrible person and you need to seek counselling for that. You have a responsibility to your husband and your children. You can no longer only think about yourself. There is no selfishness left in your life. Your children come first, and the best thing for them is a family where their parents love each other and work out their problems.

So work it out.

This is a personal observation....not telling people how to act.



Again, clearly stated as an "opinion" based on some of his personal experiences. Not telling you what to do...not a "Behavior Police".

Unlike the statement:


Someone who wants help will not leave based on a 2x4? Quite a blanket statement. OK, you have seen several for whom this is true. But, you have also been offered a personal observation of someone who saw two people leave the site because of the 2x4 treatment. How can you then make such a clear cut statment and/or conclusion that "someone" who really wants help won't be leaving based on a 2 x 4?

I didn't see the observation being shared, about a gentler approach, as being "dictating" in nature. For me, dictating would sound more like: "Someone who wants help will NOT leave based on being too soft and gentle....If people really wanted help you have to treat them with soft gloves...speak gently to them. Any idiot meter would pick up on that. I was glad I was treated that way!...I know so and so is glad for that tx. even though they didn't initially like it...."

I see no space in this approach for an opposing thought or opinion. That, for me, is "dictating" in nature. "It's my way or the wrong way!" That's what I see as "policing". Where someone(s) is assigned to uphold the "law". The "law" being the way people have decided things must be be for everyone in a given society.

Perhaps one of the reasons we don't see those for whom the 2x4 doesn't work...in spite of their desire to make change...is for exactly that reason. The technique may not work, and may be harmful for some. We're not talking about taking away painful consequences here. We're talking about how people take in information in the most successful way.

2x4s are essential for some people. They don't even begin to hear at any lesser levels. But, if I go somewhere with a problem and am instantly hit with a 2x4, I just shut down. I kick into a "fear" mode of "flight", not "fight". I feel more guilty around someone who gently points out my wrongdoings...because I can more easily see their caring and concern....be open to what they have to say. Not perceive it as an attack.

I do think the underlying point of agreement on this site is the people are here to say things to try and be helpful, regardless of how they do it or what words they use. We see this dynamic in relationships all the time! I think it's part of learning more effective communication. Being open to other's perceptions, feelings, opinions, observations etc. Certainly an important component of successful relationships.

Who are these mythical 2 people who have left? Did I miss the memo?

The point IS heartmending, is that you, Ahnold and EVERYBODY else has the right to come here and give this wonderful, soft touch, flowery helpful advice if it is their perception that it will hit it's mark with the poster in question...I have never told him not to do that...Honestly, none of us truly knows what will get through at any given time...Many times I've seen it all work in tandem...I personally have a few different styles or tones that I feel work...The problem is when one particular or even a few particular posters feel it is up to them to decide the tone of others posts and then to take it further into KNOWING what will or will not get through to someone at any given time...That is the stuff that the behavior police are made of...

In my time here, I have seen more done by using 2 x 4's...So many times that is the tone I use when posting...That's up to me and me only...If someone feels they have seen the same done with a gentler touch, then they are free to use that gentle touch and should do so...Scolding others about their method of helping is not helpful...If you feel someone's approach is harmful, then by all means jump aboard and dole out what you feel is better for the situation, that is your right, because it is about you and your tone-Just don't get on a soapbox about why your method is the best way and should be used by all here...I just don't need lectures about my style or tone...I will NOT change that for anyone...the only one that can change me is me...And that is one of the GREATEST LESSONS that I have learned here...

Mrs. W

This lady may have left. JustJilly deleted all but her first/last posts, and I recall one other from earlier in the week that I can't find right now, but if I run across it will edit this post.

I think everyone has a right to their opinion. I also think that interpreting a stated opinion as telling YOU what to do is a stretch. I took great pains when I wrote my post to make sure I wasn't telling anyone how to behave, but rather saying that I thought a different approach might work here. I was merely putting the thought out there for consideration. I did not like being called names and being told what to do just because I stated my opinion.

Regardless, I think this is an extremely valuable discussion and hopefully all of us get something out of it. I do value the diversity of opinion and all of your opinions are meaningful to me in that they are thought provoking.

Heartmending, thanks for understanding what I said and for your post. You understood that I was expressing my view, not being the behavior police.

More name calling... and what did YOU gain.

This is ridiculous.

I just read a bunch of posts how about posting police...but it's okay to for me to be called ignorant and an idiot.

So much for allowing me my own posting style.

Thank goodness I have an older registration date, or I'd really be in trouble.

I don't like name calling and insults...it's not something I was raised to do, or something I raised my children to do...but that's just me...and I don't care for it... but I guess... I'm ignorant.

Ahnold

If you hang round this site for a good long while, you'll notice that it's a common pattern for people to 'leave' - often in a burst of 'I-am-so-hurt' and 'never-have-I-been-so-insulted' statements...and then come back, a few weeks or months later.

It takes that length of time for the indignation to simmer down, and the truth of some uncomfortable honesty to be faced.

Some come, don't like what they hear, and leave immediately.

Posters like Wantout are common on MB; they are people drifting towards a thrilling lure who want someone to give them a kind of permission to betray their marriage.

In many cases, they're yearning for someone to say "Don't live with a moment of regret...follow your heart, honey...". (In real life, they'll probably seek out friends who'll tell them just that.)

Coming here, to a marriage related site, many such posters are really hoping for validation that they they are right to pull out of their marriage, that the whole thing is hopeless. They want someone to affirm their sense of injury and injustice, and tell them that their spouse is doing a poor job. They usually make a big case for how much pain they have been putting up with, and how much they are entitled to redress the balance.

The first shots across the bow tend to flush out whether they're here for help resisting the lure, or whether they're really looking for licence to proceeed.

If they're the first, they'll be back. Two weeks is nothing.

Ahnold,

A quick note before I leave for work:

When someone comes to a board called Marriage Builders, which primarily is for healing marriages after infidelity, and calls themself "wantout"... they must realize that they will get advice to NOT cheat.

Honestly, which do you think will work better here ~~

"Please don't cheat. I'm sorry you're hurting. It's hard, I know. Do what you feel in your heart. Hugz"

...or...

"You will ruin your life if you continue this fantasy.

You will hate yourself. You will lose credibility, your integrity, and honor.

You will destroy your H and your marriage, and if you have children, you will rip apart their family, and possibly set them up for relationship failures in the future.

You are making a HUGE mistake to even entertain the idea of cheating."

Listen, I "get" what you're saying. Respect. Dignity. Decency.

The problem is: Someone in an affair, as wantout is (emotional, at this point) is not going to hear the platitudes.

If she thought she could come to this site and get help to leave her marriage, she was blinded by something, probably the affair. Why would anyone expect otherwise?

The one thing I've learned and taken to heart here~ people who care may have differing ways of sharing information, some harsh, some gentle... but we're all saying the same thing: CHEATING WILL RUIN YOUR LIFE.

wantout
if you are still here I think you should at least see that what you 'want' to do is going to destroy your family, your kids childhood to an extent, and research shows where a parent leaves the M due to an affair kids have long term life issues with relationships, and last but not least the happiness that COULD be yours.

A person suffering PTSD from a war, & here I speak with personal knowledge as my H suffered/s from it now and it gets worse after every deployment. Most of the men who go over there who do what my H does do in fact.
He will never be the man I married ever again, but he will be I hope and pray ALWAYS my beloved H.
Its NOT romantic unless you think being thumped in the mioddle of the night is romantic because your H, or in your case potential OM, thinks its someone sneaking up on him, or you wake him suddenly and get thrown into a wall, or he wanders the neighbourhood because he needs to know its safe and I could go on and on.
It's heart breaking and there is NOTHING you can do about it.
YOU cant SAVE him, you never could, Yes he is a victim but not YOUR victim. That would be your H & kids if you chose to have an affair, I know about that too because its what I did.
No one here can stop you destroying your M and family and your life, but maybe you should find out what you are doing before you do it.

I do wish you would read the books mentioned, to read some of the sad and inspiring stories of both recovered and failed M that are here, they are real, not fantasy.

Remember this, you are not 16 anymore and the 'HERO' you worshipped back then 'died' in that war. Its that simple really.
The man who has come back to see you NOW is obviously in great turmoil & pain. BUT ITS NOT YOURS.
Whatever he needs I can promise you its simply not YOU.
You will find out you are fighting to maintain an emotional reltionship of any sort to your HERO, .... he wont be able to respond because he can't. That is not his fault of course BUT ITS NOT YOURS EITHER! it simply is.
If you think your M is a bit distant now just wait until you try to live with a PTSD man who has not be able to recover after 10 years.
He should be encouraged with your H by your side, to seek help and a new life, not to seek his relief in taking you away from your family because he NEEDS you or someone else, anyone else, to ease his pain, THAT never works with war related PTSD, so far all I have ever seen is that only peer treatment does, advise him to see a Vet hospital not see you.
This will NEVER work for you, you need to work on your issues with your H.
If you say its not great then work to make it so, you have only yourself to blame if you don't.
You have the chance to step back, please take it.

All the best.

Ahnold, I am glad to hear that you weren't trying to tell folks they should change their approach to suit your tastes, because that would be most offensive, no matter how politely said. As you can see, it is an exercise in futility that only causes resentment, to suggest that folks change their approach to suit your taste.

NONE of us know what kind of "approach" will work with different people, so it is advantageous that there are many different approaches. This is why this forum is such a great place; someone may hit the mark. Just because a person leaves in a huff does not mean a "bad approach" was used, usually it means an unpleasant truth was spoken that she was not ready to hear. We can see that is probably the case here. When she is ready to hear it, she will be back.

With several different approaches, someone is bound to hit the mark if the person really wanted help in the first place. And sometimes they don't. I suspect the lady who came here really wanted "help" and encouragement in pursuing her affair, and didn't hear what she wanted to hear. When she does want help to do the RIGHT THING, she will be back.