Thanks Marsh; I hope you're right.

I've been reading a lot about affairs and how they are like a fantasy world. When my H is with the OW, they don't have any stress around them, except maybe that the affair has been exposed.

Although, I keep re-playing part of her one text message to him that I posted on here. "For the first time, I hope you leave the WH*&$!" I'm trying to read into this, I guess. This implies that they have talked about the possibility of him leaving me. I wonder if she was telling him not to leave me before? Oh, I could drive myself crazy thinking about this.

I forwarded the text messages to my e-mail. I'm going to print them out and include them in my letter to her parents. That way they can see what a nice mouth their daughter has too. I'm sure they have never heard her curse before...since she is so perfect. I'm also going to include any e-mail correspondence that me and the OW had. There isn't much, but I'm going to share it anyway. I have to go somewhere to use a printer though; we don't have a printer for our computer.

Thanks for your response and all of your help and support.

She was lying through her teeth when she wrote that e-mail.

She has always wanted your WH to leave you.

If she said otherwise, she was just pretending to mean it.

It's just that when she got that unpleasant phone call from her parents after you exposed, she believed it gave her permission to admit to it.

~ Marsh

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Might I suggest Kinko's? Office Max? I hear Staples is very nice this time of the year.

You hang in there, girl. You are stronger than you think!
Mulan

Thank you Mulan! I need to hear that!!

When is a good time to ask my WH to do the EN Questionaire or to read Surviving an Affair? He NEVER reads books. He's only read one complete book in his life. So, that would be a huge struggle for him and for me to get him to do it. But, I don't know when to introduce those things because I realize he cannot be taught right now.

Please advise.

Usually they won't touch that stuff until the affair is over. Try to answer as if you were him. You usually know what order their ENs are.

IP...

Those are things that you can just leave lying around the house...You can't get him to do anything...It will have to be his choice...

Mr. W did this with me...The affair was over...I was in withdrawal...I wanted the pain to stop and was willing to try anything to make it...So that is what caused me to choose to begin reading SAA and also an ebook that he had purchased...At that point, anything that he suggested to me would have been met with a scowl and contempt...It's ALL about choice...I pray that he begins making healthy and wise choices soon...

Mrs. W

Hey there,
How are things tonight?

Time to check in, pleae.

How did last night go?

Last night went like any other night. He got home from work a little after 7:00 (well, I sat home wondering if he really was at work that whole time or if he was with her). I had supper made on the stove. I finished feeding our son and then I sat and played with him on the floor. While my H ate, I gave our son a bath. We tried putting our son to sleep. We all sat on the couch and watched football. My H ended up falling asleep on the couch. My son got really sick (all over the place). I had to wake my H up to watch him while I cleaned everything up. Then, my H went to bed and I sat with our son.

We talk normally. We are like friends. It's just that he is SO incredibly distant. The distance seems to be getting worse and worse and I'm really terrified. It seems like he has absolutely no interest in what I have to say. I don't even know if he's listening to me. How do I reach him at this point?!?! HELP!

Just keep plan Aing. WS are always emotionally distant while they are having an A. They don't want you to get the "wrong idea," about them never leaving you. That's just how their foggy mind works. If he could be close to you while still blatantly having an affair, he would have to be a psychopath. Just keep up the good work.

Stop thinking about why your husband is so cold. That is just the way all WS's are. They turn into a different person. That will last as long as there is contact.

You have done the exposure, so give this some time. Their little fantasy has a few cracks in it now.

In the meantime, what are you doing for YOU? Don't expect your WH to help you or meet any of your needs. You are going to have to meet them yourself. Are you spending time with friends and family? Can you go to some groups with your son? Have you done some Christmas crafts with him? Decorated your home, baked cookies?

Your WH told you to go get a job. Have you considered working on your resume?

I would continue with my life, making it a good one. They usually come back to the marriage. No sense in you being miserable in the mean time.

The distant thing is an integral part ot the a. It is a symptom of the disease. I called it the chip of ice in his heart.

Remember the story of the ice queen who planted a chip of ice in a boys heart so that he would forget his family and become her slave.

This phenomenon has probably been a factor in human relationships since Adam and Eve dont worry eventually the ice melts all it takes is time and a strong dose of reality.

Okay, here is my situation in a nutshell for those of you who haven't been following so far.

My H had an affair with a friend of ours and co-worker of his. He won't have NC with her. They still talk, text each other, and meet to see each other. They both insist they are both just friends now. I've heard that for too long! Anyway....

My H and I get along fine at home; we don't fight. But, we live like friends or room mates. There is NO affection at all. We don't touch each other at all. We used to give each other a hug and a kiss before he left for work, but that has stopped. He told me when he did that, he was just going through the motions. We don't even sleep in the same bed. He is SO distant and I hate it. I hate the way he looks at me. When I talk, he seems so disinterested.

I want to hug him, I want to tell him that I love him, but I'm afraid. I'm afraid of how it will make me feel if he rejects me. For example, I e-mailed him at work this morning to see if he wanted to go pick out a Christmas tree this weekend and do some decorating. Ever since I hit "send" I've been sick to my stomach. I'm so nervous and scared that he won't e-mail me back or that he'll say no. I'm afraid to put myself out there and to suggest things because then it just upsets me. Do I sound like an idiot? Is any of this normal? I can't believe I'm afraid of my own H; a man I have been with for over half my life.

I just don't know where to turn. My counselor thinks I should try giving him some affection, slowly. Like when I walk by, touch his arm. She thinks I should hug him. I'm just so afraid. How do I get past this.

I was reading Maybe2Late's thread and there was a lot of things in his thread that I would love to share with my husband. I think someone said that his W couldn't feel love for him because she wasn't showing any affection.

I just feel like we are getting further and further apart. By us showing no affection at all, it seems like it's just making him further away from me.

I NEED HELP ON HOW TO DEAL WITH THIS!!!!!!!

I would love for you to share your stories with me as well as some advise. I would like to hear "a day in the life" story. I guess how you handled your WS day to day, how you acted, etc..

Is it okay to tell them that you love them every once in a while. I know you're not supposed to all the time. I was thinking about e-mailing him how I felt. I know you're not supposed to talk about relationships at all, but I feel like we do need to talk. I feel like we need to communicate. We don't discuss the problems between us at all. I just don't know what to do. I'm at a loss.

ANY HELP WOULD BE GREAT. I'M FEELING VERY DOWN AND LOST!!

Unfortunately, he's going to continue to remain distant as long as he has contact with this woman. He's still in the affair. Continue with Plan A, and get ready for Plan B after the holidays. Also, you need to keep trying to get them separated. What have you heard back from HR? You might ask an attorney to see what legal recourse you could have (as far as harassment in the workplace). Have you talked to her parents. I know you sent them a letter. I might follow it up with a phone call. Keep putting pressure on the affair while putting on a good face when you are with your WH and try to meet whatever ENs he will let you (except SF, he needs to be tested before you do that). Are you on some ADs? You also need to be spending time with family and friends to give you support. Things will not get better as long as he is involved with the OW. It looks like you will have to go to Plan B to break you WH of his addiction.

Plan A is about making positive changes in yourself, and getting your WS to notice. You are doing a great job with plan A. WS generally notice, but do not care because they are getting their ENs met by another person. Plan A only works 15% of the time. Plan A lets the WS know what changes the BS has made and what they will be missing out on when plan B is implemented. Start getting ready for Plan B.

IP,

Here's a great post written by a poster named Ark, about how to work a good Plan A...

Plan A is ALL about the assumption that the WS is still in the affair or in contact...
this is your map to navigating those treacherous waters...

it also is your big moment to diffuse all the excuses WS are prone to use to justify their behavior and choices....

and more you can diffuse their blame...

the bs is "always depressed"
the bs "always wants to talk about relationships"
the bs "is controlling"
the bs "yells all the time"
etc....

the more you remove those things...and the more you remove yourself from any powerstruggles of insanse things...

he said she said..
etc...
the more your disengage from arguements..again the more they have look at their own actions and choices....

here's what I told familymatters..One of the biggest mistakes that people make in plan A is that they begin to meet their spouses needs....and still hold on to great expectations of reward and reinforcement from their spouse....

plan a is ALL about learning to give and do for a bit with NO expectation of ANYTHING in return...

the giving of self and gifts with no strings attached....

I have quoted the silly add campaign for some perfume in the 70's here before...but I think it fits....

It went like this ...

"if you want to get someones attention...
whisper."..

plan a is like a whisper of behaviors and actions...
plan a should not be huge demonstrative expressions of love and romance...

WS are incapable of accepting those things...
part of that is that their actions at the time of continuing an affair are NOT loving and lovable...
and they KNOW it..
sometimes they know it better than their BS...who still want to use words like love to them...

so they get resentful
or shut down
or depressed..
or it solidifies their belief that they are so "bad" or so far gone...it feeds into their excuse and defense of unworthiness...

plan a is about filling the home with love and light in other ways...

it about an upbeat environment without the deep doom cloud hanging overhead..

it is about a home filled with children's activities and joy when applicable and it is about inviting and drawing the wS into those times and activities....

and even when they refuse to come in to the joy...the joy goes on without them...

BS that do a good plan a...say they feel like their WS didn't notice..or only was receptive now and then...and then their involvement and particpation increased...

WS that were handed a good plan a...say they watched and noticed EVERYTHING...EVERYTHING....even when the bS thought they didn't notice a thing....

WS are in great turmoil...and human nature is in conflict to take ALWAYS the path of the least resistance.....

the path of least resistance...is withdrawal and wallowing in self loathing and pity..

the path of least resistance is the OP..for they can not judge and force the WS to see their own actions...because they are as guilty as the other....

so plan A'rs.....need to stop ALL relationship talk..
all talk of love...

you do things that are subtle...
like put a CD in that the WS likes...and just enjoy if yourself...and if they enjoy it also...so be it..
even better yet when it is a blast from the past CD...one that speaks of a history...without blatant insistance that the wS remember this or that....

just history...

the person in plan A...needs to be upbeat and charming...they need to see that the BS is capable of fun and joy...because if all they ever see is a BS lost in the pain..then it will solidify their belief that the pain the WS has caused will never go away...and no one can stand to see the pain they have inflicted day after day...(unless psychotic or sadistic)

the person in plan a needs to engage family and friends in fun activites always always always inviting the wS to join in...
they need to see that things can and could be normal again....

plan a can be leaving a love note...but more impressive a joke...
buy an old farside book and make copies of the really really funny ones....
or the old calvin and hobbs.......
and leave those posted about...
WS seek false joy and laughter....
bring them back to real laughter.....

plan a'rs need to learn to babble back to the insanity that Ws say..and give the babble no leverage or "to die for importance"....

plan a'rs need a time limit of doing plan a with a concrete plan when to go to plan b..
the better the plan b..the better the reality of the consequances of plan b...

make plans to things the wS likes to do..
baseball games..
movies
etc..
and when they dont' want to go..
still go and do them..
be up up up up beat...

draw them to you and your home like a moth to a flame...

work on yourself
find an outside interest that gives you some relief ..

expect nothing nothing nothing from the Ws within a limited time period and free yourself in to the ability to give and do for your spouse better than you ever had....

WS are not used to getting thing with no strings attached....
it will confuse and baffle them...but when they try to use the old "your pressuring me excuse"..it will fall on their empty ears..cause they know that has not been the case..

take them a coffee expresso piled high with whip cream...at work or bring it home to them...and leave it for them..
don't badger them to thank you
don't badger them to tell you how much they liked it..
lay it at their feet and walk away whistling...
find the joy in the act of giving and doing and not in the receptiveness....

hard hard hard hard it is......
but set the time frame and go for it....
anyone can do anything for six weeks..
(except ATKINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! )

and pray for Gods Grace to enter your heart and home...
pray for serenity...
make you house the home where you and the kids and WS would want to be....


become strong...
become confident
become engaging and charming...

realize that YOU the BS are not lovable or desirable..based on your spouses giving or taking of love...
that you stand alone in this world..
lovabe and desirable...inspite of your spouses...


that's why plan A is all about each and every encounter and glimpse in to you and your home life being as engaging and attractive.....


plan a is all about doing what you can to end an affair....
plan a is built on the presumption that they are in contact...
that's why your contact needs to be better and with more value and depth....

this does not mean that you don't set boundaries on what you will tolerate in your life..

you will not "babysit" the kids so she can go with the OP...

you don't condone any contact..
but you don't powerstruggle it either...


if you think your spouse is going to go out with op don't make it easy for them..don't watch the kids...make plans first...and leave him or her with the kids...etc

hope this helps some..
ark”



Please start doing things for YOU.

BECOME more independent.

If he doesn't reply to your e-mail or says no to you, then YOU go get the tree yourself.


~ Marsh

in pain,
I don't think I posted to you, I saw a post you made on M2L's thread so I came to visit. I don't know your whole story but read your last post. It is something I could have written 2 years ago. Except my FWH didn't work w/ OW she was a family friend and they served on the same committee.

Plan A, Plan A and then Plan B. Plan A is tough but it is for you as much as it is for WH. Plan A is being the best wife/person YOU think you should be. Its not about being a doormat or a pushover. You emailed him about going to get a Christmas tree. If he doesn't respond or declines the invite...GO ANYWAY>>>make it special for you and the little one.

When my H was in the midst of A or even contact w/ OW...he wanted nothing from me. He didn't want to be seen in public w/ me. He barely talked to me...his eyes were dead and he treated me like a piece of furniture. He noticed the changes I made in plan A he just didn't believe they were sincere.

My best advice for plan A is don't jump at his every whim. Don't push affection (which was very hard for me)I was use to the daily kiss and hug. When I asked for a hug it was a halfhearted one armed hug...which felt like more rejection then no hug at all.

He is a least talking to you. Keep the conversation light, but flirty at times.Compliment him in small doses."That shirt looks nice on you." Ask him out if he doesn't go you should still go. If he is late for dinner eat without him. Put music on, play w/ your son, take care of yourself. If you do not value yourself he won't value you either. (lesson I learned)

Get ready for plan B. Get your ducks in a row. A good plan B needs a good plan A.

I'll try to keep up and chime in now and then. Hang in there this will get better. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

ETA:
I just saw marsh's post from ark^^ she is great with plan A stuff...search for posts about BS being a lighthouse for WS.

Hi InP

A day in the life of the BS. Me a few months ago:

I got nothing from my ww and it would drive me nuts that I was doing all I could to make changes by me and for me and got NOTHING bad from her. It went like this for a while. I cried without her around and I vented here, but I stuck to plan A. If I ended up with my wife or not, I was going to be a better me.

We lived like roommates also. Don't try to do too much for your H, it puts pressure on him that he can't take right now. INP, your H is hurt too by this. I told my wife that I felt she had it worse than I did because she lost her "love"(OM) and the feelings for her H. I lost just my wife. She was stunned that I could feel like that for her. Just be a loving wife as best you can. This A/talking with OW won't last - it can't you destroyed their fantasy world.

InPain - my wife told me yestday that because the OM has never called to tell me (M2L) sorry that she feels like he is still living in a (GET THIS) FANTASY WORLD. Her words have echoed so many peoples here it's scary!!!

This is new for you and it feels hard to keep going, I know. You have to for you and your son. My wife told me "we are over, done, never to be and M2L you don't get it we are done for good." Now she doesn't want to hear those words.

Please keep reading here on MB and keep in Plan A and believe in yourself - it DOES pay off.

M2L

Oh, what a horrible night. I haven't slept at all. My H told me he was leaving and we cannot work on the marriage. He told me that it was the last straw for me to call the OW's parents. He said that told him that I was giving up. Oh, I cannot even remember what else was said.

He said we're doing Christmas separate and he didn't want to decorate the house with me or get a tree. I told him I was going to get a tree anyway. I'm getting a tree and decorating for our son.

After talking with him for awhile, he said he would get a tree on Sunday and decorate it with us if I wanted to wait for him. He said he is only doing it for our son though. He said he doesn't want to give me false hope. He's only doing it for him. I don't know if I want to wait for him or not. Maybe I should just do it on Saturday with my son. I'll need help though, I can't get it in the stand by myself. Oh, I don't know what to do. I'm at a loss.

I told him I called the OW's parents to try and break up the affair. He said the affair was over and I said even if the physical affair is over there is still and EA going on. He didn't see it that way. When he was first confronted about the affair (October 10th - our anniversary), he said he would work on the M, but he wouldn't stop being her friend. I told him that it doesn't work that way. Tonight, he brought that up again. He said I just didn't listen to him - that he told me he wasn't going to stop being friends with her. I told him he doesn't listen to me. I told him it can't work that way. Our marriage can't work as long as she is still in the picture. I told him there are 2 people in a marriage, not 3.

He insists she is not the problem for us. He's said that all along. I said, she may not be part of the original problems we had, but she certainly became a problem. He said the only reason he slept with her is because of the problems we had. I can agree with that. I screwed up really bad in my marriage. I certainly didn't meet his EN. I know that now. I learned a lot about relationships over the last couple of weeks. I know I made a ton of mistakes - some big ones.

When we were fist married (about 7 or 7 1/2 years ago), I got physical with a male friend of mine. I didn't sleep with him and it only happened once. I'm not condoning it; it was wrong. It was the biggest mistake of my life and I have hated myself for it ever since. I haven't seen that person in about 6 years and I broke all contact with him after that happened. Well, I had no reason to think that my husband wasn't over that. I thought we were past it and it was behind us. Apparently not. I ruined my marriage. I made some major mistakes and I think I've lost him.

I'm sorry, I'm rambling. I haven't slept.

Any help would be more than appreciated.