Forgive me for not remembering all the details of your story, but do your WH and OW still work together? What is going to be done about that?

I'm glad that he has decided to stay and work on the marriage, but now is the time you need to assert and enforce your marital boundaries. Change his cell phone number and delete her number from it. He need to account for his time, and never go see OW again. This is not over yet. Your husband is still and addict, and will likely return to his drug as long as there is contact. This is a good start, however.

And for heaven's sakes, get STD testing for both of you and if you must have SF with him use condoms without fail. Use two. Use three. And tell him to wash in Drano first.
Mulan

(((IP))))
I'm so glad you are posting again. You have been a busy, busy girl. It looks like WH is starting to think alittle and therefore confused. This is a VERY good thing. Things are headed in the right direction but you are not out of the woods yet.

You have been getting some wonderful advice. Sometimes WS wants to test the recovery waters. Ya know, stick a toe and see how comfortable it is. Gaurd your heart he is still a WS as long as there is contact w/ OW. Continue to get your ducks in a row for plan B....just in case. Don't tip your hand on the information that you already have. Don't demand answers and explanations...he doesn't have them right now.

If he says he wants to work on the marriage. Ask him how he is going to make you feel safe. Start thinking about what bounderies you can enforce...say what you mean and mean what you say. NO CONTACT w/ OW is essential!!!without it there can be no recovery. Ask him to write a No Contact letter to OW. If he baulks thats a tell-tale sign. The 1st time my WH wanted to "work on the marriage" he said it was stupid "a silly piece of paper, doesn't mean a thing". After I went to plan B and he wanted to "work on the marriage". He said he had called OW and told they couldn't be friends and offered to put it in writing. He did.

OW,
I am trying to rebuild my family. Don't contact me. I will not be contacting you.

FWH.

Ask him for a NC letter. Don't write it for him...see what he can come up with. It should not be about sparing her feelings...or letting her down easy.

Would he be willing to talk to Steve Harley?

YOU ARE DOING GREAT!!!

Hey the OW used Mulan's FU plan!!

1/2/07 @ 4:25 pm
f**k you


Great to hear.

Actually, the technical term is "Plan FU"!
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Glad to be of some help!
Mulan

warnings to you ..

false recovery is worse worse worse than true recovery...

this is the hardest of all that has passed...

this is where you learn to be still..
so still it becomes you.....

He told me he wasn't moving out; he wants to stay here and work on the marriage. We did talk about how much he has hurt me over the last several months. Although, New Years Eve didn't come up. I feel we need to talk about that. That was so low. We need to talk about it, but I just don't know how I'm going to approach it.

WRONG WRONG WRONG..

wipe YOUR agenda clean of things you think you need to talk to about...

this is a talk (about newyears eve) doomed for failure if you believe YOU can bring it up and get true restitution for those actions so very very early in recovery...

these are the type of things that will KILL your recovery...

he will quickly become overwhelmed with YOUR pain and HIS guilt..
and he will do as human nature directs...

flight flight flight...

and where is the best place to flee to when a WS feels overwhelmed by all their "evil and badness"..well to the OP ofcourse....for there lays the one place FREE FREE of blame and retribution...for it is with that ONE op that their sins are accepted...condoned and 'understandable..."

THIS in NOT the time to discuss..

this is the TIME to

SHUT YER MOUTH
SHUT YOUR PIEHOLE
to
ZIP IT
BUTTON IT
CLOSE IT
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

this is the time to go against everything your brain in chaos is screaming to do...
this man like all WS has engaged in behaviors for a long long time that are hurtful and has built layer upon layer of protection justification and rationalization...

and his procclamation of 'wanting to work on things"
does not fix or change the chemical programing he has done to make the affair doable...

and some of his actions were so very blatantly crude and in your face that this mans rationalization run deep...

and you MUST KNOW this
and you MUST remember this....

facing his demons will not be instant
instant I'm sorry is false sorry

YOU do NOT have to TALK about A N Y T H I N G

you need to be quiet and
say
and
do
nothing

and watch his actions of restitution and retribution...

you better contiue plan A...
with plan B ready to roll.....

listen
watch
be still

NO BIG TALKS>..there will be time for that...

see what counseling he arranges...he who wants to work on the marriage.....

ARK

Ark,

I agree with your take, but I also think it is a time that she needs to enact and enforce her marital boundaries to protect from her WH getting sucked back in to the A. Meetings like the other night are not acceptable and should not be tolerated. Otherwise, it will be a false recovery.

He's starting to greive the loss of the OW. This is where your utmost self control must be implemented. This is one of the hardest things you WILL EVER DO but you must console and comfort him and HELP IN THE GRIEVING PROCESS! Yes, it's absolutely sick and goes against all your primal urges to cut him asunder with seething venemous verbal beratement. You MUST Gaurd your tongue. LISTEN TO ARK!

It's hard .. to watch your spouse GRIEVE the loss of another person .. this will be the hardest thing to do .. also the thing that you will have the most resentment for if you can pull through it .. .but that's better left for later .. for the "In Recovery" forum.

Good luck.

Jim:

Yes, unfortunately, they still work together. It needs to change - and fast. The hard part is, that's a difficult thing to make happen quickly. I am willing to move if that's what it takes.

even after my long plan A....this is how i think my H feels about me due to my long depression when i wasn't meeting any of his needs

i'm going to quote this on a post on my thread

I am having such a bad night. I need some shoulders to lean on. All I want to do is sit and cry and then sleep. I have so many feelings going through me at once, I just don't know what to do. I feel somewhat numb. I'm lost, confused, scared, disgusted, sad, depressed, and more....

I need help - really bad. I know this sounds so crazy, but I love my husband and I want him to want me more than anything. But, at the same time, I get so disgusted when I think of him sometimes. When he's here, I feel like I can't even look at him. I'm so hurt and sometimes I'm afraid that I won't be able to recover from the hurt. What if I can't get past all this. When I actually sit down and think about everything that he did to me, I get sick and I'm overcome with grief. How could he possibly care for me? He can't possibly have any respect for me. When I actually think about all that is happened I don't know what I'm going to do. Sometimes, I actually picture him being sexual with her and I feel like dying. I actually picture them kissing adn having sex. It is too much to handle. Sometimes, I can't get the visions out of my mind. It makes me so sick and I can't stop crying. How am I ever going to get past this? Is what I'm feeling normal or have I past the point of being able to recover from this. It sounds insane to me to say I love him so much and I don't want to lose him, but I'm also so hurt and disgusted by him.

My husband actually went out of town for work. He left this morning and he will be back Friday. I verified with a friend that the OW is still in town. I'm so scared and upset because I haven't heard from him at all today. I called him around 9:45 tonight. When I talked to him, he seemed really down. I'm not even sure if he wanted to talk to me. I almost wish I hadn't called him. Why didn't he call me? He tells me he wants to work on the marriage, yet I still don't see too much of an effort. I mean, he did tell the OW he wasn't keeping the apartment and that he was staying with me. But, she also talked to him for two hours last night. According to him, he sat and listened to her telling him how much she hated him. Is that what really happened? I have no way of knowing... I'm sure she contacted him today - probably more than once. I'm sure she called him to cry to him and tell him how hurt she is and how much she hates him and how she doesn't deserve this, yada, yada, yada....

Why is he so worried about hurting her and him hating her, but he doesn't think twice about hurting me or worry if I"m going to hate him? I feel like such a used piece of trash. This hurts so bad. What if I'm not strong enough to do this?

I fear that I'm going to handle this all wrong. I guess that has been my fear all along. I don't know how to act or what to say. I know what I want to do, but it's probably the wrong thing to do.

There are so many things I want to talk to him about:
1) NO CONTACT WITH OW
2) I want to tell him how much it hurt me that she calls him and he goes running. I don't care if she was upset. What about all the times I was upset. All the times I was pacing the floors and crying - where was he. I want to know why he went over there and I want to tell him it can't happen again!!!!!!!
3) I want to know why he is so worried about hurting her, but there's not a second thought to hurt me.
4) I want him to SHOW me he wants to work on the marriage, not just tell me. I want him to get rid of the apartment and to give me his cell phone.
5) I want to know what they talked about for 2 hours last night.
6) I want to tell him I know about New Years Eve and I want to tell him how low that was and how much that hurt. That was the lowest of the low.
7) I want to ask him when the lies are going to stop! When I found out about the affair in October, he insisted the affair was over and they were just friends. That's obviously not the case. She wouldn't be that upset over losing a friend. So, he lied to me again. He basically had more than one affair with her. I want to know how often he was sleeping with her since October.

Ark suggests I keep my mouth shut. I can understand not talking to him about major relationship stuff. I can understand not asking for explanations. So, most of my list is off limits at this time. However, I feel like I do need to talk to him about some of it. Most importantly, the no contact. NO CONTACT AT ALL. He needs to understand that. I also want to talk to him about getting rid of the apartment and handing over his cell phone or changing numbers.

Here's where I'm pretty scared. My H seems to overwhelmed right now, especially with the OW spouting all kinds of things and being so emotional and crazy. I'm afraid he's going to think I'm making too many demands on him. He told me he wants to take this slow. I don't want to bombard him with things. I don't want to stress him out.

Here's a positive thing I was thinking about. He told her yesterday that he wanted to work on the marriage and that he was getting rid of the apartment. Based on the voicemails I shared with you, she went nuts. She called him names and was nasty and acted crazy. I can honestly say that I have NEVER acted like that. I NEVER called him a name through all of this. After all the things he did to me, I never called him names and treated him nasty and told him that I hated him. I only treated him with love. So, I guess I have that going for me. I just hope and pray he realizes that. I hope he sees that I didn't act like she is. I wish I could point that out to him. In fact, last night, when he said he sat for 2 hours and listened to someone else tell him how much they hate him, the first words out of my mouth was "I don't hate you". Then he said I'm sure part of you hates me. Then I said to him, "does it matter to you that I don't hate you?" and he said "Yes".

I know he can't be educated right now, but I wish he knew that what he is feeling right now is normal. He is feeling guilty and horrible because the OW is hurting. That seems to be all he is worried about. I want him to know about the grieving process and withdrawal. I want him to realize that the withdrawal won't last forever. I wish he would read "Surviving an Affair".

That's where I'm at a loss. I just don't know how to proceed from here based on all of this.

I also have some things I want to post about the IM he had with moveforward. I want to share some things that he said. I'll save that for another post though. I put a lot of stuff on this one already.

Please help me. I need guidance, really bad!!!!!!

IP if it's any consolation, for 6 months into recovery my wife was still worried about what the OM thought of her.....

I can't believe I forgot to ask this.

I needed to send him an e-mail today to tell him I made an appointment with our counselor for a joint session. I also wanted to tell him some things, but I didn't know if I should.

I wanted to run it by all of you first.

One thing he said when he IMed moveforward is that he wanted to talk to me because he wanted to know what my true intentions were. He said he wasn't sure. I want him to be sure. So, I wrote this e-mail to him, but didn't send it yet. Let me know what you all think.

H -

I just wanted to let you know that I made an appointment for us with our counselor for January 23rd at 1:30. That was the only time she had available for the week of the 22nd.

I also want you to know that I do love you. Everything that I have done (whether you understand or agree) while all of this has been going on has been done with the best intentions to save our marriage. I want you back. I'm sure of that. It's going to be tough on both of us, but we can do it.

I'm sorry, I just needed to tell you that. I won't bombard you with all of my feelings, etc... I know you have a lot going on. I also did not tell you that with the intention of pressuring you. I just worry that you don't know how I feel. I want you to understand how I feel. You mentioned recently that you don't know what my true intentions are. My true intentions are to make you happy. My true intention is to be the wife of your dreams.

I hope you're having a good day.

Love,
IP

So, let me know if that's okay to do at this point.

How in the world did you handle this? Was she all gloomy and upset a lot? Did you have trouble with her having contact with the OM?

Well I don't see his statement as a sincere one. I see it as a way to find a loophole in your flawless figure. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

So don't sell yourself to a WS. He said he wasn't sure of YOUR intentions? That's WS babble. Do NOT fall for it. Instead kick it back. Something like:

WS,

The appointment with the C is the week of 1/22......

Heard you were wondering about my true intentions....well, I've been wondering about your too. My intentions are right where they need to be and lying isn't a part of where I need to be. Let me know when you figure out where yours should be and will be.

Btw, I really would like to have my real H back. Can you please let him know that I love him?


All the best,
BS

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

L.

Gloomy and upset a lot? Yes. LOL. Par for the course.

In truth I handled it very badly. It was an alien concept to me that my wife could even consider she had a relationship with another man let alone be in love with him. LOL.

It didn't help that it took me 6 weeks to find MB after d-day either. Because until then we were sunk as neither of us really understood what we were dealing with.

Regarding NC - well that's an interesting one. OM kept tryng to "accidentally" bump into her, go where he thought she might be etc. My wife told him she told ME everytime he contacted her in anyway. He also Text messaged her and phoned her but that game stopped basically immediately because she kept me informed and he knew I was informed.

She never did break NC either.

NC is the key to recovery and I think she did get that.

Same here. And for longer than 6 months into the recovery too.

I've been exactly where you are.
This is what helped me. I actually had to think of WH and H as 2 separated individuals, because everything WH did and said was so alien to the H that I knew. SLOW DOWN! as ark^^ says be still! He is not thinking like your H yet. A WS has to change the way they think to do the things they do. Really think about that....what loving H would bring home a doggie bag from a dinner w/ an OW? He is not a loving H right now....be still. He can not comprehend the hurt he has caused.....yet. BE STILL. He is starting to wake up from a coma...he is confused...BE STILL.

We tried MC too early...actually WS used it to justify his behaviors, turning things around. Caused more damage then good. Give him the Dr's name and # if he is truely set on saving M he will call.

As far as images of them. Try to push them out of your head I know this is really hard but it hurts you and HE IS INCAPABLE OF GIVING YOU COMFORT....right now. BE STILL. I file those images w/ those of the girlfriends before we were married. Of course I got rid of our king size bed and bought a new full size bed....didn't think I'd be sharing it w/ him. (Now we get to go shopping for a new bed together, kind of symbolic).

He is out of town w/o OW....this is a GREAT opportunity for you and your marriage. Let her be the screaming banshee! You be the calm, warm wonderful woman you are. If he calls...don't answer the phone. When he calls back answer the phone w/ a smile and make up a vague excuse why you couldn't pick up before. Be upbeat on the phone tell him what wonderful thing your son did, paint a picture of FAMILY. My WS was willing to walk away from me...he was not willing to walk away from the family.

Save yourself some hurt I know you want to show your H how you feel. WH cannot understand this...it will feel like an attack, he will not be able to give you the answers you long for, he will want to retreat because it is too uncomfortable. RIGHT NOW in WH mind it is ALL about him. Keep a journal and share that w/ your H....later after he has been home awhile.

If you must send him an email keep it short do not sound whiney or needy.

If you want to address your intentions....

WS,
So much has happened I know this is difficult for all of us. I love my family more than anything in the world. I intend to do everything I can to protect it and keep it intact.

I'm making ____(insert favorite dinner) on Friday? Will you be back in time to join us?

IP

Then you make the dinner whether he is home in time or not. When he walks in the door he will smell. Olfactory memory is VERY powerful. Leave a lonely plate on the table. "Wasn't sure when you'd be in. We were starved."

You have the day to pamper yourself. You need a plan so you are not at the mercy of his moods. It will help! So what are you going to do today?

PERFECTION Cha-Cha...

inpain..

you are NOT in recovery
as far as you are concerned you should see this as plan A with plans to move to plan B...

have you told him NO contact before....

the idea is to decide what YOU are going to do about contact...

and my opinion is that if you are in Plan A....then you expect contact....

why are YOU making counseling appointments...isnt' that his job?

what good will come from demanding attention at this time to allll the pain he has caused...

do you want forced apoligies?
forced apologies to appease and console you so you move on and get over it...

OR
do you want a MAN who comes to you in a few weeks/months and speaks his true remorse after processing and facing the reality of his actions.....

what is the caa caa about a letter from you with stuff like

I just want you back
I want you to be happy..

why not hand him a loaded gun...it will quicker than the fodder you handing him...

don't you want a MAN.....
repentent and right with GOD first...
then you and the family?

You are NOT in recovery.
You are in a big ole dip in the rollarcoaster....

what is your husbands answer when you say
You should not have any contact with your OP...

when was your date for plan B

ARK

It is completely normal to feel what you are feeling right now. I still think of what my WW and OM did in that hotel room in NYC. It gives me nightmares, but I don't let my WW know and I quickly try to get it out of my mind. From what others say, it goes away in time especially if you forge a truly happy M with your WS.

You shouldn't be having R/M talk, but you do need to enforce your boundaries. State them in the affirmative and make them about you and your family.


For example, don't say, "Please, change your cell phone number because you will just keep talking to OW if you don't." Instead say, "This weekend we are getting your cell phone number changed so I feel safe about the M being protected from this OW."

Right now, he is in withdrawal and will be unresponsive to you meeting his needs. As long as he works with OW he will probably be flip-flopping and stuck in withdrawal. The longer that goes on, the more likely he is to feel that the M can't be saved and give up. It it VITAL that one of them change jobs so NC can be established. That should be brought up in counseling, and you need to help him look for other jobs since you are a SAHM with internet access. Looking for another job can be stressful and a full-time job in itself, so help him out. Help out even more around the house so he can focus his remaining energy on finding another job.