IP, I am so sorry you are going thru this..I cannot even imagine the pain and anguish you feel. But I did the same thing, I tried to differ my WH from my H and told myself that they are NOT the same person. That may help ease the pain a little bit and give you some glimmer of hope. B/C you know what your true H is like and this WH is not the one you know. The unknown is always very scary. I am so sorry for your pain. If you need to call or talk to someone, I am here. Just let me know and I will give you my #..You are not alone in this, I know its hard to believe that but you are not alone. Sing that song that was a one-hit wonder back in the 80's "Send me an Angel"...Or just keep saying "Lord, give me strength." IP, say that over and over and over and over again to yourself. That really helped me get thru the 1st 60seconds and it was help you too. Sometimes, you are gonna have to take it one minute at a time and then you can work your way up to one hour at a time and so on and so on....Remember, I am here to talk on the phone or just listen to you scream, yell, cry, rage, cuss, etc etc....

Let me join those who tell you to differentiate between the H and the WH. You must learn to do the same. It really will help. You are feeling so torn and frantic right now because you see someone who looks like your H doing the most cruel and vile things, and it's about to break you.

Don't let it. That's not your H. That's the WH. No one can reason with a WH. He will not protect you and he will not comfort you. Only your H will do that. Make sure you are ONLY dealing with your H, and never trying to work things out with the WH.

One thing for sure: Do NOT let him move back home until you are certain it's your H who's moving in. The last thing you want in your home is a WH. He will only torment you and drive you to despair. He should NOT move back in until after he's sent a stone-cold No Contact letter.

And as someone else said, beware of the counseling. You will go in thinking they're going to set him straight, but the WH will walk in knowing full well it can't touch him. And it won't. Counseling is a huge waste of time and money on a WH. He'll just use it to say "he tried," while everything said just slides right off of that cold sheet of ice he's surrounded himself with.

So: Tell him you do not want a WH in your home. Nobody wants that. You only want your H, and you know that your H would immediately write a NC letter and would worry about protecting his WIFE and not his girlfriend. If he refuses to do that for ANY reason, then you know you are still dealing with a WH and not your H.

It's okay to look at them as two different entities. They are, you know. It will help protect you from the damage the WH does while still making it okay to want your H back.

Hang in there. We're all here for you.
Mulan

Hey Ark,
she has her plan B letter ready. Because he told her he wanted to work on it, she hasn't given it to him. I suggested she give plan A 1- 2 weeks and if there is not some form of recommitment on his part ie: looking for a job, asking for transfer, etc then to go to Plan B.

She is so low right now, I am afraid I was wrong and she should go ahead and go to Plan B now.

When I was IMing him he was saying the right things - that was why I suggested a 1-2 week Plan A as he was saying how positive the changes he had seen in her over the last month had been.

IP,
There is hope. Unfortunately there is no quick fix. WS cannot change overnight. My WH gave NC letter to OW last June he is just now starting to act like my H. I wish we had a MB zapper to just snap them out of the fog. (you'd have LOTS of volunteers to zap the WS!)

From your own experience...you can help your H thru this. And you know feelings can change. How much do you want that OM from all those years ago? You made a choice, he has to make the choice for himself. We can't force him but we can guide you so you can be his light house.

IP,
I hope all goes well when he returns tonight. Remember this is a journey....it takes time, patience and forgiveness. Go slow...BE STILL>>>>even if he comes home sounding all fogged up again. Smile at him and think "The mother-ship will be coming to pick up the alien life form."

Plan A and prepare for plan B....Take care of yourself and your son. We will walk you through this. But you gotta post!We worry about cha, ya know?! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Hi Mulan:

He didn't move out. He did tell me about his apartment, but he said that he was getting rid of it and he wasn't moving out.

I'm so confused.......

My son and I went to a friend's house last night. I got home around 9:35 pm. When I got home, I had some messages. Two were from my husband. He called at 8:14 and 9:28. He sounded pretty upbeat. I called him back and he seemed pretty good. He didn't sound down; we had a pretty good conversation. We talked for about 20 minutes.

I didn't get online at all today because I was really busy. I got home around 5:00 and decided to check my e-mail.

I found this from my husband:

I probably won't have a chance to call so I hope you check your e-mail today. I wanted to let you know that I am gonna meet with _____________(friend of ours and co-worker of his) tomorrow to talk with him. Not exactly sure what time - he just said Saturday pm. I'm gonna suggest 1 or 2 or at least by 3. I probably won't go to ______________ (a friend's 3 year old's birthday) party if that's ok. I'm really not up for it. I don’t want to make anybody uncomfortable and ruin it in anyway. I was also thinking about heading back to my mom's to watch the Cowboys - Seahawks game with ____________(his brother). I called him last night and left a message. I'm not sure if he'll be home or not. If I do go I'll be back by the start of the eagles game Sunday probably early afternoon or so. We can talk about it all later.

Also, I think I want to attend that weekend counseling session next weekend. Hopefully I can still sign up. Can you call and see and possibly sign me up? If you don't want to can you give me the number and I will call. Thanks. I don't want to hurt anybody anymore. I don't want to hurt anymore. I need to do what's best for me first before I can do anything for anybody else. I just don't know what that is. __________________(Counselor) thinks that weekend will really help me. Honestly I feel like there is no help. Honestly I feel like I'm stuck in a neverending loop of unhappiness. No matter what I do. That's so pathetic, I know. Sorry, I started rambling there for a bit. I'll see you later.


Okay, so that doesn't seem good at all. Our counselor is running a "healing weekend" and she really wants him to go. I had my individual counseling session with her this afternoon and she told me she really wants my H to go. She told me as well that she thinks it would really help him.

Now, here's the really depressing part. I got online to check his phone calls. The most up to date was last night at 10:09 pm. He made a phone call, which was about 10 mninutes after we hung up. HE CALLED THE OW. THEY TALKED FOR 53 MINUTES!!!!!

What do I do about this? I know some of you said that I'm not in recovery. What do I do? I'm so confused. He comes to me and tells me he wants to work on the marriage. He IMed with moveforward and told her he wants to work on the marriage and he knows that means no contact with OW.

My H and I didn't sit down yet and discuss much of how we're going to move forward. I did ask him to get rid of the apartment, but that's it.

What do I do tonight when he comes home? Do I sit him down and talk about things?

Do I talk to him about:
1) getting rid of the apartment again
2) NO CONTACT with OW
3) do I ask him about him calling her and talking to her for 53 minutes?

Help me! I need to know what to say to him tonight!!!!!

I'm so upset that HE called HER!!!!!! And, that they talked for 53 minutes!!!!!!

Then, today, I get an e-mail from him that has "confusion" written all over it.

She probably confused him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

She's talking to him a lot and I'm not talking to him much at all (not any relationship talk). So, I'm worried. She's probably talking to him about relationships and I'm not. What could they have talked about for 53 minutes?

Should I tell him that I looked at the records? Should I ask why he called and what they talked about? Should I ask him about him following through on NO CONTACT? How do I go about setting boundaries????????????

The fact that he wants to talk to our friend and co-worker of his scares the HE** out of me too. The first time he said he wanted to work on the marriage, he talked to this same person that weekend. The next week is when he said he didn't mean it and he didn't feel that way anymore. I talked to this friend myself on Tuesday night when my H went to the OW's apartment. This friend said he thinks that my H should move out. He thinks he should move out and get away from both of us. I don't want him to encourage my H to move out. Especially, since his apartment is right across the parking lot from the OW. I don't want my husband out right now. I'm really afraid the tide is going to turn when he talks to this friend. I'm really scared! Should I ask my H what he wants to talk to him about? Should I call this friend and tell him not to encourage him to move out? I'm scared. I don't know what to do.

Should I ask him tonight if he still wants to work on the marriage?!?!?!? I'm lost!!!!!!! and confused!!!!!!!!!

DO NOT, DO NOT, DO NOT TELL HIM YOU CAN ACCESS HIS CELL PHONE DETAILS!!! This will be a valuable tool in getting info about contact. DO NOT talk R....He is still a WS. Do not insist he give up the apt. You know where it is. He is on the fence. It'll will probably take plan B to get thru to him.

He sounds like he intends to keep playing you. Pretend to be working on the M and still keep OW."I even went away on that weekend w/ your C." See it can't work. The busy schedule going here and there over the weekend sounds like a set up to meet up w/ OW. He will probably show up at the places he said for cover and alibi.

Sweety he is a confused WH. Plan A and get ready for plan B....I think you are going to need it.

You need to get a hold of your emotions. You can do this.

Give him the # for the C...let him make the appt.
Ask him HIS plan for saving M.
Tell him NC w/ OW, ask him to write NC letter. His response will tell us alot.

Tell him that if he want to work on his M, then NC is essential. Protect your boundary of M, and get him to write her a NC letter. I know he still works with her, but any contact until he leaves (which must be by a certain date), must be strictly required work contact and nothing else, and that must be stated in the letter. After that, he needs to change his cell phone number and delete hers from his phone, and get rid of his apartment. You need to get rid of all her contact information including old cell phone bills. Tell his counselor when you set up the meeting about his continued contact with OW, but don't ever give away how you know. If he refuses to respect your marital boundaries, plan B his wayward [censored], and that will shake the rest of the fog out of him, d*mn cake-eater.

Hello All:

I am really having a hard time. My H told me last Saturday (1/6/07) that he basically changed his mind about working on the marriage. He said that he wanted to go to this Healing Weekend, which his where he is now, and he wasn't going to do anything drastic until after the weekend. Which means, he isn't going to get rid of the apartment, etc...until after he goes through with this Healing Weekend. I guess he is hoping to get some answers to what he really wants after this weekend. I just don't understand how he could change his mind so quickly about things. We just talked on Tuesday about him working on the marriage, that he was going to get rid of the apartment and stay with me in our house, etc...and then literally days later he tells me he's not going to do anything drastic!!!!!!

That HO got to him!!!!!!! The OW called him Tuesday night and he went right over. Came home after two hours and said that he basically listened to another person tell him how much they hated him for 2 hours and then I know he talked to her on Thursday night for 53 minutes. Whatever she said to him confused him!!!!!! She has basically let him have it. She was mean to him, called him names, etc...She is making him feel guilty - saying she doesn't deserve to be treated this way, she would have given him everything, he lost the best thing that ever happened to him, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I said to him last Saturday that maybe I handled this whole thing wrong right from the start. I said, maybe I should have told you how much I hated you and called you names instead of showing you love. I said maybe that would have had more of an effect on you. He shrugged his shoulders and said "maybe".

So, now I don't know what to do. I know I did some major anit-MB things last weekend. We had some relationship talk - mainly because he started it, so I don't know how much I broke the rules there. I also sent him an e-mail last Saturday:

"Do you honestly think I care less about you because I didn't yell and scream at you and tell you that I hated you? The truth is, I couldn't even tell you that I hated you. I love you too much to say those things to you. Part of me wishes that I did hate you; maybe this would be easier on me. I have cried for you for 8 months. I may have seemed "okay" when you got home from work and when you were around me because I didn't want to be all "doom and gloom" around you. I wanted you to want to be here. I wanted you to be in as much of a positive atmosphere as possible.

Maybe that was wrong...because maybe it seemed like I didn't care or that I was okay with things. Nothing could be farther from the truth. I didn't let my true feelings show because I was thinking about you and your feelings.

I want you to know that I do love you. Everything that I have done (whether you understand or agree) while all of this has been going on has been done with the best intentions to save our marriage. I want you back. I'm sure of that. It's going to be tough on both of us, but we can do it.

You questioned my true intentions....my true intention is to be the wife of your dreams and to make you happy - to live a happy life with you and DS.

When you think about life with me - the future with me - don't think about the past. The future will be nothing like that. I promise you that everything about our marriage will be different. Don't be afraid to open your heart to me; I'll make you happy.

Okay, I guess that's all I have to say. One more thing...please keep talking to me; please let me know what you're thinking.

I do love you with everything that I have................


So, that probably wasn't really good. I just felt like I had to do something. The OW is sending him all kinds of e-mails telling him how she feels and calling him, etc...I just felt like I had to do something too. Whatever she is doing is obviously having an effect on him.

Oh, so many things were said last Saturday, I don't even know where to begin. I'll have to post that another time. I don't have a whole lot of time right now. I just wanted to give all of you a quick update. I need some help! I'm feeling so down. I couldn't even motivate myself to post this week. I feel so bad.

I just don't understand how he could say all those things to moveforward on an IM. Then to stand there on Tuesday and look me in the eye and say he's not using the apartment, that he's not moving out, and that he's staying here.

I don't know how he could look me in the eye, with tears in his eyes and say he thinks we could work out. He also told me that he was thinking fondly of our trips together in the past. He was actually thinking good things about our past, which is a huge step.

But then tell me days later that he changed his mind....

I don't get how he could be so sincere and then do a complete 180....

He also said he didn't want to worry about the past anymore, only to move forward. That was another big thing coming from him!

I'm so lost and confused!!!!!!

Sorry that you are so down. It is very common for the WS to go back and forth. It is critical that you do not LB him. Your letter was fine.

The OW is showing her true colors. Think of him as an addict that got another fix of his drug. Keep doing Plan A. It may go back and forth for a while, but don't worry about that.

I'm going to repaet what I said to you early int his thread... something that was twisted by some here into something it never was. I believe that your H has unresolved issues about the past that need to be addressed now. I do not believe that they should have any bearing on his current behavior... but I believe that they do. Anyone here that has ever been assaulted... abused or cheated on knows that if you do not handle the emotions of the events in a healthy way... they can come back stronger at a later time. I believe that is what is happening with your H. I also believe that he finds exceptionally misguided justification in his actions in your past. He is wrong... and frankly, I think he needs help. It is my opinion that the root of all this stuff is in his inability to process what happened years ago in a healthy fashion. HE DOES NOT HAVE JUSTIFICATION FOR WHAT HE IS DOING!! I SAID IT BEFORE AND IT WAS IGNORED BY RUDE KNOW IT ALLS THAT PAINTED MY WORDS INTO SOEMTHING THEY NEVER WERE... please give yourself the gift of forgiveness for anything that has happened in your life... you deserve it.... but make sure that he has been able to find a place to put that part of your combined past.
I wish you nothing but peace and happiness. Imagine a brighter day for you and take into consideration anything that might help your marriage. You do not deserve any of this... not now and not in the future. Be well.

in_pain - I have not read your entire thread. Have you considered calling the Harleys and let them give you a plan? The standard answer here is "stay in Plan A," but you are suffering so greatly and your WH is rubbing your nose in his affair to such an extent that I don't know how much more of that you can take.

If you call them and get a phone appointment, they can get a better idea of what's really going on and can give you a concrete plan that's tailor-made for your particular situation.

And of course, you can still continue to post here for whatever support we can give you.

I hope you will post back and tell us you're going to call. You need to let an expert help you carry some of the load. That's what they're there for.
Mulan

Your problem is that your WH keeps getting sucked back in by the OW. Your WH needs to find a new job, and then you need to shut down ALL access to OW. I think more exposing needs to be in order targeted specifically at the OW. I think she is the one who is truly in the fog right now, and I think some nuclear exposure targeted right at that psycho ho-bag should be in order. I think you are doing a good job with plan A on your WH now. I think you need to find more out about this OW, and your strategy should be to keep her from wanting to wrap her grubby little paws around your WH. Have you exposed to her parents? What about family and friends. I think it is important to find out exactly what happened between your WH and OW, and expose to work and everyone she knows what a home-wrecking wh*re she is being, so they can put pressure on her to let go of your WH. She is the key. Start using the stick of plan A to take care of her. I would consult with SH to figure out the best plan of action.

Don't talk about the OW with your WH, just nuke the ****** out of her with exposure. Don't argue with your WH, just say she is a threat to your family and leave it at that. After a couple good rounds of nuking, I would plan A for a little longer so the last thing your WH remembers is plan A before you plan B his fence-sitting *ss.

One trick I might recommend if you have no proof of a PA is to finally confront her and tell her your WH told you they had sex and she needs to leave your family alone. Usually, they will admit it if they think you already know. That is how I concluded my WW's EA was actually a PA. Use that info for nuclear exposure to anyone and everyone on her side. This b!tch is going down.

IP, you are doing fine. You couldn't be a better person for putting up with you WH's BS to try and preserve your family. God is testing you like he did his faithful follower Job. You will be repaid tenfold for your efforts. You'll get through this.

My H told me last night that he was moving out. I don't know what to do. I'm feeling like I can't go on. I'm alone and lost.

He came to this conclusion because of that Healing Weekend he went to. He said he knew what he needed to do from going to that. He feels he got his answer and he needs to move out. He said we are finished and there is no hope for us.

I talked to him a lot. I tried to get him to change his mind and work on the marriage. I think some of what I said got to him because he was feeling confused again. He was getting frustrated because he said he thought his mind was made up and then talking to me put him right back in not knowing.

He ended up falling asleep.

This morning, he told me not to do anything for him. He said, don't do my laundry, don't cook supper for me...So, I think he's still planning on leaving.

I don't know what to do. I just want to die. I can't handle this intense pain. It's all my fault. It's because of what I did when I was 22 years old. It's all because of that one stupid thing I did in my life 7 years ago. I ruined my marriage. This is all my fault...I can't live with that.

MEDC:

You are right. My H does have unresolved issues about the past that need to be addressed now. Nothing about the past has been dealt with in a healthy fashion. He is still in a tremendous amount of pain for what I did to him. How do I get him help for that? What do I do?

Can you give me any guidance?

On New Years Day, I tried not to get my hopes up about my H working on the M, but apparently I did. I got my hopes up a lot more than I wanted to.

I knew deep down that things weren't going to work out for me. Things never do. I knew deep down that I waa not going to be a success story on this site.

How do I go on? I've lost him forever and I can't live with that.

I'm sorry.

I haven't been keeping up with your situation.

However, I want to reach out to this morning to let you know that I HAVE BEEN IN YOUR EXACT SAME POSITION.

After D-DAY, my H stayed home for 2 months all the while planning to move out into a NEW CONDO that he had bought.

We have now been very HAPPILY RECOVERED for 3 years.

So, all is certainly not HOPELESS for you.

Don't buy what he is saying at all regarding his reasons. All justifications, which you should not believe. What you did several years ago is not the cause. This is a CHOICE that HE is MAKING.

Continue with DOING what YOU KNOW is RIGHT. Continue with your PLAN A until he leaves..so that when he leaves that he does so with POSITIVE MEMORIES OF YOU. He is trying to make you into being the BAD GUY. He is the BAD GUY NOW. This is NOW. LET THE PAST BE THE PAST.