glad to see that you are felling better than the other night now.

Keep on keeping on.

I am. Thanks Eph!

Rock,

You said
Ok Rock, time to hit you with the hammer. Look at what I quoted and think. Does that statement give you some ideas? It says a few things to me. It says that on intimate or painful things, it might be better to email, write, or post here to truly communicate. Often people that have trouble "voicing" intimate or painful, personal things can do so in writing because they can pick and choose the words they really need to say what they really need.

Something else for you to "talk" with Mrs. Rock about. Frankly, my W is very much like this. She can and does write the most touching letters and cards, but in face to face, she just does not say the things she says in writing. She can be a shy one. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Perhaps Mrs. Rock is like this as well.

Think about it.

God Bless,

JL

PS: Don't you just hate it when a stereotype is challenged. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> Women are supposed to be the ones that like and are very verbal about their feelings. Right?

I actually am much better at writing my thoughts and feelings than I am at saying them. I once thought of discussing a lot of things with her through letters and emails because I thought that maybe it would be easier for her to talk and/or answer some of my questions without having the embaressment of having to look me in the eye. I don't know. I know though that she doesn't like to write as much as I do. We will see. Man, I gotta start getting some sleep!

You're both an inspiration to me. You've overcome so much and, although (like us all), you still have a ways to go, you're reaching out for help, baring your souls, and fighting for your marriage against numerous challenges (double A's, loss of a child, family dysfunction).....thanks for sharing.

We're rooting for you, learning from your struggles and praying for you, too.

Ace

SUSHD - just in case you need it today. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Thank you sir, may I have another!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Yeah - you're doing much better than the other night - good to see it.

Here's a question. Now and then I have been posting in what I call an "anger" journal. Do you think that it is something that I should have or let her read?
Just wondering.
Rock

If it helps any, rock we went through the same thing. My wife had 3 As in the past two years that practically destroyed me. It hurts like ****** that this is forever going to be part of our history now. I've often had the same feelings of worthlessness and low self esteem. I so desparately wanted to improve things and to keep our kids happy but she kept straying. At the end of the day her choices are hers. I don't have any "magic bullet" advice but I have learned you have to stop thinking in negative ways about yourself. A person can cheat even if you are the most wonderful spouse in the world.

We've been in recovery with no contact for 4 months now and things are going better than ever in the past several years but I still have to constantly turn my mental attention away from reminders, negative feelings, anger, etc. If I really think objectively though I'm doing a lot better than I was a while ago. The improvements come gradually so you don't actually realize them. Marriage builders is working for us and some days I just stick to the program even though I really don't feel like it.

I also started writing things down but I don't think you should just share that stuff un-filtered with your wife. Don't drag each other down needlessly. Maybe I'm wrong about this though, you should discuss it with your counsellor.

Thanks for sharing NG. I'm sorry that you had to deal with pretty much the same thing that I am dealing with now. I am glad though that you are farther along than me and showed me that there is hope.
As far as my notes go. This goes back to my last discussion with JL about how me and my FWW have a hard time talking and maybe it might be easier for me to express my feelings to her by writing some. I don't know.
Thanks for your time and I hope the best for you!

This is my little nugget of comfort. I read it many times throughout the day and cling to it.

RB,

Someone here on MB had a hard time talking...and what they POJA'd, as a temporary way to communicate, was to have one notebook...and she would take it in the morning to work...write in it to him...and then hand it off to him at night, I think...and he would write in it...left time and space and it was what they used to get to where they could talk to each other about their own stuff...and be safe to share.

Hope this helps.

(And no...anger journals are for you, about you...they are great to see, know and trace your anger...later on, she can burn it with you...when you no longer need it...not something to share.)

LA

Post deleted by rockbottom06

Post deleted by rockbottom06

Hello Mr. and Mrs. Rock,

I came across this thread just now and have been very touched by it.

I hope Mrs. R will continue to post and you both heal.

I'm a FWW and I just realized I have 2 dd's a year younger than each of yours - oldest one has a genetic disorder, we almost lost her and DH and I have been married the same length of time as you.

Mrs. R can email me too if she would like, it's on my profile.

Mom

Thank you so much for posting. It's amazing how similar your kids and all the ages are.
I encourage my wife to post here often. I would love if she could talk to you. I love hearing from other FWWs.
I read your story and I wish the best for you and your H.
Keep in touch and thank you for posting here!
Rock

Member


Reged: 06/20/06
Posts: 265
Loc: Texas Re: Taking responsibility for A on both WS & BS part? [Re: lilmom]
#3204439 - 03/16/07 10:06 AM Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply



lilmom, wounded (damaged/broken) is the best way I can describe it.

I'm not sure why but reading today's posts makes me feel like warmed over sh*t today. Sometimes I read through threads and see the vehemence, anger and bitterness aimed at waywards and I hate that I'm in that category. I've taken it all in, knowing I and other waywards deserve every bit of it. Yeah, so I'm "reformed" does that put my back into my prior-A category. No, I'm still a rung or two lower than the rest of the faithful.

I did not start out life as a morally bankrupt person. I didn't get married as a morally bankrupt person. Most of my life, save those few months I was wayward, I had very high moral standards. I might as well have been a psycopathic adulterer from day one for all the good it did me. Because that's how so many will view and define us always.

WW, FWW...whatever, I might as well wear a scarlet letter.
Why does it feel like the sum total of who I am can be defined by the period of time I was a WW. Discounting the years and years prior that I "thought" I was basically a decent person. The worst thing I've ever done is all of what defines me. I hate it. I think, what if people around me knew, they just think I'm so perfect but I'm just a fake!

sorry for the vent...

--------------------
FWW - 38 (me) (2 LD EA's, Jan-May '06)
BH - 40 (him)
Dday - May 22, 2006
DD's 11 & 4
M 17 yrs
recovered, grateful, immense respect for my DH
my history: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...&PHPSESSID=

Post Extras:

rockbottom06
Member


Reged: 12/05/06
Posts: 263
Loc: Michigan Re: Taking responsibility for A on both WS & BS part? [Re: MomtoAandZ]
#3204451 - 03/16/07 10:13 AM Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply




Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

lilmom, wounded (damaged/broken) is the best way I can describe it.

I'm not sure why but reading today's posts makes me feel like warmed over sh*t today. Sometimes I read through threads and see the vehemence, anger and bitterness aimed at waywards and I hate that I'm in that category. I've taken it all in, knowing I and other waywards deserve every bit of it. Yeah, so I'm "reformed" does that put my back into my prior-A category. No, I'm still a rung or two lower than the rest of the faithful.

I did not start out life as a morally bankrupt person. I didn't get married as a morally bankrupt person. Most of my life, save those few months I was wayward, I had very high moral standards. I might as well have been a psycopathic adulterer from day one for all the good it did me. Because that's how so many will view and define us always.

WW, FWW...whatever, I might as well wear a scarlet letter.
Why does it feel like the sum total of who I am can be defined by the period of time I was a WW. Discounting the years and years prior that I "thought" I was basically a decent person. The worst thing I've ever done is all of what defines me. I hate it. I think, what if people around me knew, they just think I'm so perfect but I'm just a fake!

sorry for the vent...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I can relate to you MOM. Being a FWH I always feel like I have to defend myself. It's also very tough not to feel like a hypocrite to my FWW.It's rough. (sorry to TJ)

--------------------
Me-BS/FWH -41
WW/ BS - 40
D-Day Oct 08 2006
My D-Day Oct 23 1994
2 DDs (5 & 12)
Married 17 yrs
Together 24 yrs

Post Extras:

mkeverydaycnt
Member


Reged: 09/21/05
Posts: 2458
Re: Taking responsibility for A on both WS & BS part? [Re: MomtoAandZ]
#3204458 - 03/16/07 10:25 AM Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply



I don't think FWS are a rung lower in any way. Not even one bit. WS... yes... FWS, I have told many here how proud I was of them for the work they have done to fix themselves and their families.

--------------------
Have a nice day unless you have made other plans!

Some people kiss with their eyes closed. Too bad they marry the same way.

Post Extras:

MomtoAandZ
Member


Reged: 06/20/06
Posts: 265
Loc: Texas Re: Taking responsibility for A on both WS & BS part? [Re: rockbottom06]
#3204462 - 03/16/07 10:27 AM Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply




Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I can relate to you MOM. Being a FWH I always feel like I have to defend myself. It's also very tough not to feel like a hypocrite to my FWW.It's rough. (sorry to TJ)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I can certainly understand that. I've often thought about what if my DH had a revenge affair or something like that, or possibly something in his past that I know nothing about. (I'm paranoid that way...). Would I even have the right to be upset about it?

I wouldn't use the word defend though. There's no defense for having an A (I don't think that's what you meant anyway). Some people are just completely amoral from the get go and no matter how perfect their spouse was they would've strayed, sure. But that's not me, I'm guessing not you either. There's no defense, but certainly there are factors that contributed to an environment where I was more vulnerable to making bad choices.

It sucks to have to carry the label forever. Even if it's not an actual scarlet letter on the outside, WE KNOW IT'S THERE. It's on the inside of us, forever.

Apologies to the original poster for going a little OT...

--------------------
FWW - 38 (me) (2 LD EA's, Jan-May '06)
BH - 40 (him)
Dday - May 22, 2006
DD's 11 & 4
M 17 yrs
recovered, grateful, immense respect for my DH
my history: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...&PHPSESSID=

Post Extras:

new_beginningII
Member


Reged: 01/09/06
Posts: 829
Re: Taking responsibility for A on both WS & BS part? [Re: MomtoAandZ]
#3204479 - 03/16/07 10:39 AM Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply




Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I did not start out life as a morally bankrupt person. I didn't get married as a morally bankrupt person. Most of my life, save those few months I was wayward, I had very high moral standards. I might as well have been a psycopathic adulterer from day one for all the good it did me. Because that's how so many will view and define us always.

sorry for the vent...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



You are not alone. (((((((((A-Z))))))))))) Venting is sometimes necessary!

You know what? I arrived here in 1999, as a recently Wayward trying to recover my marriage. I had been a BS in the marriage, in fact, several times, but you know what? It often *feels like* there is NOTHING worse in the world than a woman who has cheated.

A man who cheats is a dog, a cad, or some other "boys will be boys" term... but a woman?... she's a s1ut, a wh0re, a skank... and I have been called all of those things, by my ex and some people on this site... back in the day, I mean. (My infidelity lasted for several months back in early 1999.)

Like you, it does NOT define me.

And also like you, I was an upstanding, moral, loving wife and mother... until I wasn't. And since then I've worked like h3ll to gain back my self-respect and honour. It's been a VERY tough road, because for me, I made a lot of life-changing choices during my withdrawl and subsequent healing...

Anyway, just wanted to chime in... and say... I made the most horrible choice once, back in 1999, and I regret that. But I am not the same person now. I wasn't he same person before. I snapped, I reacted, I have suffered for my choices during that time.

And now, I heal. Another choice.

--------------------
The Will to Do, The Soul to Dare ~ Sir Walter Scott

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MomtoAandZ
Member


Reged: 06/20/06
Posts: 265
Loc: Texas Re: Taking responsibility for A on both WS & BS part? [Re: mkeverydaycnt]
#3204485 - 03/16/07 10:42 AM Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply




Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't think FWS are a rung lower in any way. Not even one bit. WS... yes... FWS, I have told many here how proud I was of them for the work they have done to fix themselves and their families.


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I wasn't pointing to anyone in particular. Reading the posts today was kind of a "straw that broke the camel's back" in terms of what I have been feeling all along when I read comments about waywards from BS's. I'm certainly not saying any BS doesn't have a right to feel the way they do. We were horrible, we did something truly awful and really, justifiably unforgiveable (we're fortunate that we do get forgiven).

That's what causes me such anguish. That I did that. That's me (the former wayward me) they're talking about. I don't think I'll ever feel "clean" again.

Don't laugh...but, it's not you...it's me.

--------------------
FWW - 38 (me) (2 LD EA's, Jan-May '06)
BH - 40 (him)
Dday - May 22, 2006
DD's 11 & 4
M 17 yrs
recovered, grateful, immense respect for my DH
my history: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...&PHPSESSID=

Hi rockbottom,

I also want to add my final post on that thread::

MomtoAandZ,

I hope you will read my post to you, above (we were posting at the same time ).

You are not alone and this is nothing new. You sound very remorseful, and I would hate to have you think this won't end...

I would like to say one other thing to any other FWW's out there (FWH's, too)...

As long as you stay and post here, it will be a reminder, and the new, raw pain of some posters will be directed to you, or to others like you, or not to you at all but it will *feel like it*...

Time away from MB might help.

When you feel stronger, you can return to offer support to others and 'pay it forward'... that's what I do... and others... who have been around since the beginning.

I really didn't mean "defending" what I did. There is no defending that. It is defending the fact that I am no longer that person who did those things and I feel that I have worked hard to get where I am now.
I think that being a FWH helps me to understand my FWW perspective a little and what she is dealing with. At least I think.