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MrsV Offline OP
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No I can't afford it.


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Wow, MrsV. I sense a lot of anger from your BH as well. I'm sorry you're having such a rough time.

I'm not even sure what some of your H's ultimatums have to do with R the M. I mean, in his opinion, will making you get up in the morning and shower and get ready before the baby wakes up at 5:30 a.m. somehow make up for the pain that you caused him from your A? I can understand that maybe one of his top EN's is DS and that he thinks you might be falling short in that area, so maybe he wants you to work on that. But I don't see how that relates to the A in any way. Honestly, as a mom with a 14-month old, I know how difficult those early months were for me. My baby had terrible sleep problems and often wouldn't go down until midnight or later. At 2 months, she rarely slept more than 4 hours in a row. If my H had had the same attitude as yours, I would have literally gone insane from lack of sleep.

It seems to me that your BH is angry and lashing out and attempting to punish you for what you have done. That's counterproductive to the R process. It also sounds as though your H is being emotionally abusive. No one, no matter what they have done, deserves to be called horrible names or told how stupid they are. I think your H may need IC to learn how to deal with his feelings of anger and betrayal.

Does your H know about MB? Has he read any of the Harley's books or anything on the site? Would he be open to counseling with the Harley's? I think you guys need some help. Your BH's anger is preventing you both from moving forward and, until those issues are dealt with, it seems unlikely that your M will R.


Me: BS/FWW: 48
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BH and I are raising my OC together.
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p.s. your affair should never be brought up again.

Quote
Coping with Infidelity: Part 4
Overcoming Resentment
entire article here

Recovery may not be complete

Resentment usually appears when an experience of the present reminds us of a painful experience of the past. For example, if a wife had been abandoned by her husband after a fight on a vacation, left to find her way home alone from Jamaica, the resentment of that experience would pop up whenever her husband walks out the door during an argument. Very often, continuing resentment means that whatever it was that caused the painful experience is still lurking in the background. And it jumps out every once in a while when evidence of it's existence surfaces.

The procedure for recovery that I suggest usually eliminates the root causes of infidelity, and that makes it unlikely that present experiences will remind a spouse of experiences associated with an affair. If the only time you feel resentment about a spouse's past affair is when your needs have not been met, when your spouse is engaged in a Love Buster, or when the Policy of Joint Agreement or Policy of Radical Honesty has not been followed, then it's the completion of recovery that's your problem, not resentment.

Using resentment as a way to control and punish a spouse
I'm convinced that what's kept the resentment of S.R.'s husband alive for so many years is that he has found it to be an effective way to control and punish her whenever she doesn't do what he wants. Whenever they have a fight, he brings it up, and it causes her such guilt that it gives him a decided advantage in winning the argument.

By this time, I don't believe that her affair is the problem that she thinks it is. Instead, it is an issue that her husband is using to get the upper hand in his relationship with her. It probably shows up the most whenever she has been reluctant to have sex with him. It throws her off balance whenever he mentions it, and makes her feel guilty, wanting to make it up to him somehow. He may also bring it up whenever she is winning in a power struggle he is having with her.

What she describes to me in her letter is abuse, pure and simple. There is no excuse for the way her husband keeps bringing up her moment of weakness she experienced years ago. He is disrespectful and abusive.

I suggest that she look him right in the eye and say to him, "Listen Buster, do you love me? Do you want me to love you? Do you want to spend the rest of your life with me? If the answers to any of those questions is 'yes' you sure are going about it the wrong way. You are not doing things that I admire, you're doing things that I find disgusting!"

What if he says, "Fine, then lets just get a divorce and end it all."

To that I would say, "It's up to you. I married you for life, but if you want a divorce, it's your call. If you want to be in a love relationship with me, however, you're going to have to treat me much better than you have been treating me. You must never again bring up my affair, and if you are upset with me, you will have to treat me with respect until we can solve the problem. If you are upset with our sexual relationship, I want us to discuss it as adults and solve it with mutual respect. I refuse to be treated like this, especially by the man I love."

My advice to her husband is to never mention her affair again. It's a good example of one of the enemies of good conversation, dwelling on past mistakes. Whenever you keep bringing up your spouses past mistakes, you not only make your conversations incredibly unpleasant, but it cannot possibly lead to a resolution of a conflict you may be discussing. And as soon as his resentment doesn't pay him any dividends -- no longer helps him get his way -- he will find that it hardly ever occurs to him.

Hanging on to an unpleasant thought because it helps us somehow is what psychologists call "secondary gain." It means that even though the thought is unpleasant, it gets you something you need, so your mind keeps it around for its usefulness. There are many unpleasant thoughts that have this characteristic, and I have helped many people let them go by helping them destroy the usefulness of the thought. Making sure that S.K.'s husband never gets what he wants by bringing up her affair will help him overcome his resentment.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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My BH is aware of this site, but he tells me he's not interested in reading about the experiences of others. Yes, he's obviously very angry. Yes, we need help, but financially I don't know how we could do it. I asked MBs if they would accept payment plans, but they do not. If I had the money, what would be the best option - just phone calls, or the accountability course? I'm considering asking my parents for a short-term loan just for this, but we already owe them some money.


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Are you in the US? Go to www.unitedway.org and see how they can help you.

As for your sitch, why does he think you aren't doing anything?

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Originally Posted by MrsV
No I can't afford it.

I'm sorry if this is off-topic or out of bounds, but where do people find the cost of MB counseling? I can't find pricing anywhere on the site.

My reason for asking is that perhaps I can afford it, unless it takes a prince's ransom...


Preach the Gospel every day. When necessary, use words.
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Thanks for the link cat. I'll answer your Q later.
Fred - find the info in the links at the top - courses and counseling center. It's around $200/45m call. There is an accountability program which gives you assignments and you talk with an accountability coach for around $1,000 but you have to pay that fee up-front.


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Originally Posted by MrsV
Thanks for the link cat. I'll answer your Q later.
Fred - find the info in the links at the top - courses and counseling center. It's around $200/45m call. There is an accountability program which gives you assignments and you talk with an accountability coach for around $1,000 but you have to pay that fee up-front.

Thank you, MrsV. Today is the day Plan B goes into effect for me. I will keep the MB counseling bookmarked, depending on how and when my WW reacts to it.


Preach the Gospel every day. When necessary, use words.
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Originally Posted by catperson
As for your sitch, why does he think you aren't doing anything?

CP - He goes so back and forth. Sometimes he says I'm doing what I need to do, but most of the time he tells me I've done nothing. My EA threw him so off balance he still doesn't know which end is up. Today is a really bad day for him as on D-day he found a chat I'd had and read every word, a chat that occurred one year ago tonight. I have got to come up with something today to make him feel loved and appreciated. Words don't matter to him - he needs action. Concrete action.

I think the reason he says I've done nothing is because I was slow to do a few specific things he asked me to do. Even more so because he had to ask in the first place instead of me initiating things like deactivating facebook (the vehicle for the EA). I had blocked the OM, but he wanted FB gone all together. Clearing the hard drive of the computer is another thing I should have done sooner. But a lot of what he's asked for have nothing to do with the A per se. Sharing details with my siblings and asking my sister for advice - to BH that was bringing other people into our M and deeply upset him. He is still demanding an apology from my sister and her H for offering my kids and me a place to stay if needed. Because I wasn't the one initiating a request for an apology and he had to push me to do it, he feels I've done nothing. Because I never threw away the clothes I wore in a few pictures that I sent to OM, because I didn't suggest and even resisted changing my phone number and getting rid of my phone (I was self-employed business owner with that # listed on everything. I have since stopped the business). The list goes on. For everything I have done there are numerous reasons he can name that though it was something, it wasn't enough. My attitude really sucked for a long time and that obviously hurt him more. I was so angry with him (there's been verbal abuse for a long time, it's not an after effect of the A) that I had a very difficult time getting to the point where I fully accepted that dealing with his pain and working on healing had to come before mine.

Last night I took Mel's advice and told him his plan wouldn't work and that I would no longer tolerate the name calling. I've made this request before. I told him that I felt the path to his recovery, his 'repair' as he calls it, is through the healing of our marriage. But he refuses to accept this. He flat out tells me he won't work on the M until I "repair" him.

I do so want my M to work. I really love my husband and want to keep my family together, and I want us to be a healthy productive couple! I know I hurt him beyong anything I can imagine. I know we have a lot of work to do, but I'm willing to do it. Some MCs say that one person can save a marriage. Is that true if the other spouse holds too tightly to their pain and anger?


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Originally Posted by MrsV
Some MCs say that one person can save a marriage. Is that true if the other spouse holds too tightly to their pain and anger?

Anyone have any thoughts on this?


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Dear MrsV,

I don't have the right answer to your question. It is not yours to tell how tightly he holds to his pain. You cannot actually make him do anything, you cannot tell you H to get over it nor can you "fix" him. But what you can do is to keep your eyes on your own plate - start with yourself. What can you do to make him feel better? Have you thrown away those clothes, or all the stuff which associates with your A and might trigger him?

You said that he's been verbally abusive long before A. How have you handled it before?












Me, FWW: 43
Mr_Recon6mo, FWH: 44
DD20 and DS23
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Originally Posted by MrsV
Originally Posted by MrsV
Some MCs say that one person can save a marriage. Is that true if the other spouse holds too tightly to their pain and anger?

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

"It takes two to say yes to a relationship. It only takes one to say 'no.'"


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MrsV

Have you ever addressed the insecurities this affair may have triggered in your husband, men have a difficult time talking about them. The fact that your EA was with and old boyfriend would say to me, as a man, that I was sexually inferior to your old flame. While that viewpoint might be alien to you as a woman, your really have to try and view these events through his eyes.

In my case I think of my wifes 3 EAs simply as taller, better looking and wealthier. Men are compeditive. Was your OM superior in some ways to your H or does he feel that way?

NJ

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Niitse - I know I can't "fix" him. He's the one who keeps telling me that I am the only one who can. It is my job, according to him, to repair him. I have done good work on myself this past year. I'm actually in a pretty good place as an individual - my self-esteem has greatly improved. It's funny, in a way, this past year my BH has been pushing me and pushing me to "fix" him. Pushing me to meet his needs by being more organized, more confident, more decisive. I have become so. Confident enough now to speak my mind instead of just internalize the things that hurt me.

I think I've finally accepted that he really wants to see me hurt the way I hurt him. He wants to punish me. He doesn't say that, but he shows it.

NJ - my OM was in no way superior. Not in the ways that matter to my BH. My BH has a better job, is intellectually smarter, is better looking, is cultured and worldly and wonderful in so many ways. The need the OM met for me was emotional conversation. Yes, it may have made him feel sexually inferior to the old flame, as you said. When BH talks about OM he doesn't seem to feel inferior in any way, but there must be insecurity there or I can't imagine all that pain is present without some.


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MrsV,
Where is Family Commitment on your husbands ENs? It looks to me like from his list that maybe you are confusing DS with FC since they involve taking care of the kids. If this were is the case, you might not be meeting his #1 need.

When he says you are the only one that can "repair" him, does he really mean that you have to earn his trust back, show him that you are committed to the marriage (and family). That is what the list reflects to me.


Me: 32 BS DDay: 9/14/08
Slowly coming to the realization that I
am one of those who can't get past it.
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I reread the definitions of DS and FC just to be sure. DS is his #1. The house has to be tidy with everything in its place. The children and I need to be dressed and put together as well. Meal planning and such still fall under DS.

We've talked at length about what "repair" means. If it meant earn his trust back and show him I'm committed that would make sense to me. That's what I've been doing. But it seems to be more than that. When I ask him for specifics as to how to do this, he tells me I'll never understand him, that I just can't get it and how he can't understand why I don't get it because it is so simple.

He was sewing a pocket of a blazer when I came down from putting the kids to bed. I offered to take over for him. He said, "I don't wnat it to get damaged further." I offerred a massage when I saw his neck was aching him, "No." I had my IC yesterday and later asked him if he would consider coming back with me to talk with her. He saw her alone a few times at the beginning and that seemed to help, but he hasn't since Feb or March. He said he didn't know. I made him dinner, lit candles, put on music, tried talking, but he stonewalled me. I tried to initiate conversation several times, but he said he didn't want to talk about our marriage. Didn't want to talk to me. After dinner he just picked up his laptop and disappeared behind it. I usually give up quite easily when he's in these moods and then at a later time he'll tell me not to give up, to just keep trying to reach him. So that's what I did. I just stayed next to him on the couch reading Your Love & Marriage by Harley. I brought him a little plate of biscuits he loves. He pushed the plate away. Though at first glance it felt like I was being rejected at every turn, he actually let me cuddle with him in bed a little. So, maybe I got it a little right last night after all.


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I think he will believe your commitment when it comes in terms of repeatedly pushing at his wall, over and over again. He puts up the walls just to see if you will stick at it all day long, not giving up.

IMO, THAT - not giving up - is what he wants to see in you. To him, THAT is commitment.

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Dear MrsV,

I would like to suggest you an article, just to encourage you to think about your situation in terms of what you are and not so much in terms of what he's doing wrong. It is a very interesting piece.

http://www.arbinger.com/downloads/what_we_are.pdf


Me, FWW: 43
Mr_Recon6mo, FWH: 44
DD20 and DS23
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CP - I think you're right. I will keep pushing (gently).
Niitse - thanks for the article. I'm looking forward to reading it.

I appreciate all of you reading and offering insight and suggestions. I need it. I want to help heal my husband and heal my marriage. My husband needs his children in his life every day and I want to make certain that he has them and they have him. I hope he'll meet me on common ground - out of pain, into hope.

Last edited by MrsV; 12/02/09 03:05 PM.

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Well, here it is. D-day. And the other day at work he was informed it was time to "look for other opportunities", so essentially, within 3-months he's out of a job. Good times.

As a BS, what has your WS done to comfort you that actually worked, even when you were at your most hurt and angry?



BH 41
FWW (me) 38
DDs 6/7
DS 3
EA Oct/Nov 08
DDay 12/4
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