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Excellent post MarFor!

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did the betrayed spouse just learn to hide it better?

In most cases, no. The BS saw a permanent change in their WS from the inside out.

And, once you have a truly repentant and de-fogged spouse, if they were to take up again you'd spot the fog pretty quickly.


A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb



Neak's Story
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I really believe that he is NOT gay.

To some, "gay" means "embracing the gay lifestyle", as in living openly with other men, cruising openly for male partners, etc. Sometimes it means effeminate behaviour and cross-dressing, too, but not always. "Gay" is usually about the lifestyle.

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Although, I dont believe he is straight either, because as many of you pointed out, NO straight man would do what he did.

Absolutely. Your WH may not be "gay", but his behaviour is most certainly homosexual.

Remember that senator from Idaho - can't remember his name - who got caught trying to pick up men in the restroom at a Minnesota airport? He also protested, "But I'm not gay!"

Well, it's true he didn't seem attracted to the "gay lifestyle." He was married to a female and had a family and seemed quite content with that. But his behaviour was most certainly homosexual.

navewife, I think you're in the same boat with your WH. Just wanted to point out that *sometimes* the terms "gay" and "homosexual" have different connotations, especially if you're dealing with somebody who is desperately trying to split hairs to explain their actions.


Me, BW
WH cheated in corporate workplace for many years. He moved out and filed in summer 2008.
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Mulan....what a wonderful answer and clarification for NW! I too remember that Senator getting caught tappin his foot in the public men's bathroom....guess it is a hot spot to pick up action in many of these men's bathrooms posted about online and so on....not sure how NW could be certain her H wouldn't be engaging in this activity in the future....to easy to come by.

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Good old Senator Widestance.


A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb



Neak's Story
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Originally Posted by gemstone
Mulan....what a wonderful answer and clarification for NW! I too remember that Senator getting caught tappin his foot in the public men's bathroom....guess it is a hot spot to pick up action in many of these men's bathrooms posted about online and so on....not sure how NW could be certain her H wouldn't be engaging in this activity in the future....to easy to come by.

I'm thankful to have never witnessed such activity in a men's room. But interestingly enough, my mother used to warn me not to tap my feet when she sent me to a public restroom when I was a boy. Apparently this has been going on for a long time.

In order to achieve protection from this, you might have to think outside the box. The wife could open the men's room door and holler inside "Is anyone in there?" before her husband goes in, and holler at him to come back if someone else comes in after him. She could time him. She could send him with someone trusted to watch over him. They could plan to not be gone from the house for more than an hour or two at a time. They could look for "family" restrooms. She could go with him into the men's room and only into empty men's rooms.

Sad that you'd have to do such things for a grown man, but if my wife was worried about me, I'd do it.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
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Originally Posted by markos
Originally Posted by gemstone
Mulan....what a wonderful answer and clarification for NW! I too remember that Senator getting caught tappin his foot in the public men's bathroom....guess it is a hot spot to pick up action in many of these men's bathrooms posted about online and so on....not sure how NW could be certain her H wouldn't be engaging in this activity in the future....to easy to come by.

I'm thankful to have never witnessed such activity in a men's room. But interestingly enough, my mother used to warn me not to tap my feet when she sent me to a public restroom when I was a boy. Apparently this has been going on for a long time.

In order to achieve protection from this, you might have to think outside the box. The wife could open the men's room door and holler inside "Is anyone in there?" before her husband goes in, and holler at him to come back if someone else comes in after him. She could time him. She could send him with someone trusted to watch over him. They could plan to not be gone from the house for more than an hour or two at a time. They could look for "family" restrooms. She could go with him into the men's room and only into empty men's rooms.

Sad that you'd have to do such things for a grown man, but if my wife was worried about me, I'd do it.

being the Mom to all boys I never told them a thing about not tapping their feet nor did my spouse...until that Senator Widestance got caught I had NO IDEA that such things occurred in men's public bathrooms! From what I read online basically certain ones are selected for this "hookup" and that's why that under cover cop was in the potty waiting to nab any other tapping occupant.

I don't know Markos...If his wife does all those things your listing....it just seem overwhelming to have to go to that extreme....but if she doesn't then she may wind up with a disease....it is her call what will make her feel safe to be with him.

Last edited by gemstone; 05/05/10 12:28 PM.
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I really dont know what I will do. Yes, I am going through the motions of checking him. He has surrendered all his accounts passwords to me, I have done a check to investigate how many accounts and social networks he has on line, and so far he has told me the truth about that. He has put GPS on his phone, and calls me everytime he is going or leaving somewhere. He is trying his best to be transparent for me, to give me some feeling of security, but the idea of doing all that checking in the mens room is absolutly not realistic. There is NO WAY I am going to be able to be with him every second of every day, ..yes, I know this means he could squeeze in "playtime" in there, and that my efforts are not fullproof. However, I just cant live my life being his mother. I married him to be his wife.NOT his mom. I know if I stay I am going to have to give him some trust. Eventually anyway. I know staying with him leaves a HUGE possibility of me getting a disease if he is not serious about staying faithful. That is just the kind of choices I am trying to sort through now . YES I am terrified that he will do this again, girl or guy, and I am terrified that I will find out by getting a disease, but I have to admit, he is really doing alot of work to show me he wants to be here as well. I really want to believe him. I feel it necessary to give him just one chance to prove what he is saying. Believe me, I am in the process of preparing my self a separate account to be ready to leave at the first sign that he has strayed, I WILL NOT do this again. He has this one chance only to make it right!


Me: BW 35
Him: WH 36
DD: 7
DS: 1yr. M: 12yrs
DDay: Feb 10 2010
**Always speak your mind.....even if your voice shakes**
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I dont mean to keep harping on this NW...BUT I feel so compelled to say please bear in mind that your H must first accept his issue with homosexual behavior....trying to deny it for say it was just oral with a men no biggie is not being truthful to himself or you. He has posted that he engaged in this activity by giving & receiving this sex act....hetro men do not do this with other men....denial of this fact is going to get you spinning your wheels until he slips up again and you may not be able to monitor him like a police officer....nobody can do that....the stress of that situation would kill all the love you have for him in time.

The best that could happen now is for him to be honest about his same sex attraction issue....get help for it (lot's of places for it....Joe Dallas....Exodus Internation....NARTH) google them and read the available articles online....also call them directly for answers...there are great books out by the founder of NARTH....worth reading so you understand the psychological background of this behavior...it is not something that your H can tuck under the rug....it's worse in my mind then him being with OW.....way way worse....if you could manage to get help for those sources or do counseling at least just once with Steve H from this site you could get better advice....he must have dealt with this issue before.

In the end...the choice will be yours....and you need to let go of the guilt you may feel if you simply can't trust him ever again...I know for myself I never could but we are all individuals and we all have limits to what we can deal with and what we simply cannot.


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Thanks for your advice, I am analyzing everything I read. I understand the concepts and how MB works, its just I am having a hard time implementing anything right now. I mean, how do you NOT lovebust when there is sooooo much anger and hurt inside. I tried to "jump in" head first when I was in the panick of "save my marriage" but now, I am trying also to work on myself. I feel like I have lost my mind and dont even know myself anymore. Feel really lost. So I am really finding it difficult to find feelings of love and affection of any kind right now. My mind replays the events in my head like a broken record, its exausting. I definately will be reading as much info as I can from this website, I know I have a LONG road ahead if I am going to try to work this out. Just feels like its hard to figure out where and how to make those first steps. Thanks again


Me: BW 35
Him: WH 36
DD: 7
DS: 1yr. M: 12yrs
DDay: Feb 10 2010
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Take good care of your body and exercise. At least once a day, do something that's so vigorous that you don't have time to dwell on the mental movies.

When you're overwhelmingly feeling the urge to lovebust, walk away and take care of yourself till you can calm down.

What you're feeling is very normal.


A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb



Neak's Story
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Thanks Neak, I am trying to do that. Hard to walk away with new baby and 6 year old around sometimes, but I am trying. By the way, My counselor suggested I get on meds for my anxiety, I really dont want to be on meds, I read that st.johns wart is a good natural substitute for Zoloft, does anyone know anything about any natural supplements or viatamins I could take for my nerves?????


Me: BW 35
Him: WH 36
DD: 7
DS: 1yr. M: 12yrs
DDay: Feb 10 2010
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I have heard St. John's Wort can be helpful, though have never taken it myself.

Regular exercise is a great mood-lifter.


A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb



Neak's Story
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I know you dont want to take meds, but they helped me tremendously coupled with IC....meditation is also good, even if its only for 15 minutes a day, there are some good meditation CD's....journaling is also good, it helps with the ruminating bad thoughts a lot. I dont know how, but it works. Its like once you put it on paper, its stops going thru your mind so much...


BW me-41
WH -39
DS - 9
married 12 Yrs together(?) 18 yrs when A discovered
DDay aug 2007
found MB dec 2007
Moved out april 2008
still seeing OW
Plan B

Okay I fixed the ages, it was looking screwy. smile
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I will have to try journaling, I definatly have to do something, i have so much hate and hurt , and just cant stand my mind racing all the time. I am so afraid I will lose my job and have to be dependent on my husband, and that thought scares me to death. I will try the journal thing. I am trying to get into the excercise thing, its been hard since I just had a baby, but I did buy an excesise program and plan to begin soon. I am trying to organize my house, finances, and self so I can get some sort of feeling of control in my life. Thanks all for your support and advice. I am sooo glad I found this site.


Me: BW 35
Him: WH 36
DD: 7
DS: 1yr. M: 12yrs
DDay: Feb 10 2010
**Always speak your mind.....even if your voice shakes**
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Hang in there, navewife...I am glad you are gonna try the journaling, it really did help me. And someone on here gave ME the idea. I had never journaled in my life, well maybe as a child, so I was skeptical....but I knew the people on here know their stuff. Somehow it really helped me a lot.

Its like once you write it on paper, your mind feels as if you dont need to keep thinkin of it as much...write down everything you feel or are thinking. Hope it helps you.

Last edited by stillhere8126; 05/08/10 05:45 AM.

BW me-41
WH -39
DS - 9
married 12 Yrs together(?) 18 yrs when A discovered
DDay aug 2007
found MB dec 2007
Moved out april 2008
still seeing OW
Plan B

Okay I fixed the ages, it was looking screwy. smile
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Also ask for and accept help from your family. You shouldn't have to go through this alone.


A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb



Neak's Story
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Originally Posted by navewife
Thanks Neak, I am trying to do that. Hard to walk away with new baby and 6 year old around sometimes, but I am trying. By the way, My counselor suggested I get on meds for my anxiety, I really dont want to be on meds, I read that st.johns wart is a good natural substitute for Zoloft, does anyone know anything about any natural supplements or viatamins I could take for my nerves?????

Good quality Omega 3 supplements (fish oil or krill oil) is supposed to be good for proper brain function. Take a good quality multi-vitamin too. Get some sunshine every day directly on your skin (not long enough to get burned though). Vitamin D is proving to be pretty important, and the best source is sunshine. Like another poster suggested, exercise.


Me(bw/fww) 39
recovering with amazing fwh/bh 36
DS 7
DS 4

His
EA Oct '07 - 7/2/08 (d-day)
NC 7/4/08

Hers
EA/RA 6/'09-3/'10
NC 3/17/10


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If you want to use St. John's Wort or another natural supplement, you might want to go to a Naturopath or a doctor who integrates natural treatments in their diagnosis. Also, although supplements are "natural" that doesn't mean they don't have side effects. Make sure you look those up (mayoclinic.com has a lot of information on vitamins and supplements at their site). In addition, most pharmacists are familiar with the ingredients of popular natural supplements and can give you some advice on side effects, interactions with other things, etc.

I use natural supplements and am lucky to live in an area with a recognized Naturopathic Medical School. I always look up the interactions at the Mayo Clinic site as well.

Hang in there!



johnstwin-

"I may not know what the future holds, but I know who holds my future." -Martin Luther

Remarried my FXH 25 years to the day of our first M. God is so good-and sometimes so unexpected!

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Yeah, I have a doc appt this week comming, and will ask him, but navy medicine is usually not into the natural stuff. Still have to talk to him though, because I am taking meds for my thyroid and have to make sure the natural stuff doesnt interfere with my synthroid. Thanks for all the advice:) I am so lost rightn now,but very thankful I have people to talk to.


Me: BW 35
Him: WH 36
DD: 7
DS: 1yr. M: 12yrs
DDay: Feb 10 2010
**Always speak your mind.....even if your voice shakes**
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What are your reasons for not taking meds? Are you breastfeeding?
I refused meds (stupidly) for anxiety and PTSD for months, (I thought of weight gain, lower SF drive .ect) and, what an error on my part! Effexor .Sp? was wonderful, allowing me to sleep, think and feel better. No weight gain, and it elevated mood!

After a fashion it hurt my stomach (bitter tasting pill- stickout)

SO I went on welbutrin. I have had weight loss, no SF effects and (tho not as good as effexor) a calmer feeling. You know the rapid heartbeat, the racing thoughts and the general feeling of anxiety that you have?

You do not have to feel them. Not to the extent that you are describing, anyway.

St. John's wort does have a good rep. But suppliments are not well regulated, and you have no assurance of dosage. ie: do not think because it is "natural" that it is better for you than other meds.

I also take DIM-Y (natural suppliment) to help keep a better balance with estrogen in my system. Keeps the "hormonal sway" at bay.

If you do choose to try them, be preparred for many visits, it takes time to regulate the dosage. You have to be responsible on these, too. You can not quit cold turkey

(ps I am not a doctor, and I do not play one on TV)

Last edited by barbiecat; 05/09/10 05:38 AM.

Me; W 46
Him; H 46

2 girls
DD19
DD16
Dated/Married total 28 years.
..I am learning and working on myself.
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