I am really new to this stuff so bear with me, I cannot believe I am doing this. I am a military wife, who just had a baby in Jan. In Feb I discovered my husband had an affair, and after digging further for the WHOLE truth, I then discovered he had oral sex encounters with men as well. I AM SOOOOOOOOOOO HURT AND CONFUSED!! We have been married for 11 years now, and have a 6 year old and now new baby. We were always the couple that everyone envied. Never argued, I let him do whatever he wanted. Always did housework and delt with our daughter so as not to inconvinience him. Let him look at porn, and go out to girl bars with his buddies, without complaint or question. He even caled me the "cool" wife. THIS HIT ME LIKE A FREIGHT TRAIN , I feel like I am in the twilight zone. He is going to therepy, and doing everything to try to prove he wants to be married to me and not lose what we have. Even put GPS on his phone, to try to give me some peace of mind. I want to give him a second chance, mostly because I do believe he loves me, I just think he got cocky and thought he was never going to get caught and now that he sees what he could lose he mayy be done. HOWEVER!! i am in no way belieing in that fairytale. I dont want to make any decisions right now. Everything is too fresh. But I really need to vent. I chose not to tell my family in order to try to avoid drama if we do end up working it out. Anyone out there been through this and survived??/ I really need help, I just dont know how I am going to stay whaen I dont think I will ever trust him again. How long is it going to take to not feel likeI am crazy anymore. ???

I'm not much of an advice-giving person, beyond telling you to start your own thread. I'll have my daughter, Neak, who IS an advice-giving person, to take a look at your thread once she has all the trolls--I mean, the darling children--off to bed. And other vets will be around, if you'll just give them a bit of time. Don't do anything rash. Give yourself space so you don't explode, even if it means going in a bedroom by yourself, taking a walk or a drive, or visiting someone for awhile. You will be told to act, and not react, but you're going to need a little help putting that laudable plan into action.

tl

First, I am very sorry you are going thru all this...it stinks. What you are feeling right now is painful, but very normal. This is a good website to be on to help you recover your marriage. Do you want to recover your M? It sounds like you do and if so then it is possible. The trust can be earned from your wayward husband.

But there is much work needed and precautions to put in place to ensure that. It is late right now and tommorrow you should get more responses...but a good place to start is to read the info in this website.

I am not experienced in the recovery department. So I cant help you too much there. But just a few questions to better help you get the info you need...You dont want to be duped by him.

The affair that you found out about first, do you know who this person is and how long it has been goin on? Do you know who the men are or how many? How far back does it go that he has had these affairs? I

Congratulation on your knew baby, I am just so sorry you have to go through all this at the same time...keep posting, there are a lot of knowledgeble posters on here who have been through recovery...they will be here to help you.

Yeah, I think I want to try to work it out...just dont know if I can. Like you said, lot of thinking to do. No I didnt know this girl, he met her online, started chatting, then emailing, then meeting for lunch, and finally went to a hotel to have sex with her when I went out of town for a weekend trip to see family. According to him everything started in 08 ,He states there were 5 different guys that he had oral sex with, he put a post on craigslist saying he wanted to try bj with men. Said the first one came to our house in the afternoon,*(so of course I threw out our loveseat) where it apparently happend, eww. and he said the rest he went to their homes and did the deed. Said they were all also married men. He states he only had sex with this other girl once, and her story matches his. But his emails to the other girls he chatted with talk about "meeting and playing" so who knows how many others there are. He said he met some of the others but they werent into what he wanted so he didnt follow through. At this point I feel like 5or 500 is all the same to me. I dont even know what to be more nervouse about, this other girl being local, since he has interacted with her since 07 or the man thing, well just cuz its so sick. I am soooooo confused. but dont want to make any major decisions while I am in this emotional carzy like state. . Thanks for your advice and opinions

Were the OS-with-men encounters with other military men?

You need to get your family in your corner. Even if you don't want to tell them every detail, knowing that he cheated and you want their help supporting you as you try to R your M will be important. Hiding the truth will not get you the support you need, or the accountability WH needs.

The bisexual aspect is very troubling, as are the numerous offenses. It doesn't automatically mean you won't or can't recover with him; what it does mean is you need to set the bar very, very high.

I very seldom go farther than a simple recommendation, but in your case I strongly urge you to counsel directly with the Harleys, with WH and alone. You will need the best help you can possibly get to deal with this.

In the meantime, here are your instructions. I'm sure others will chime in with more.

1. Be very easy on yourself - you've been through a terrible experience, and will continue to do so for some time.
2. Be patient with the recovery process. Even with a repentant spouse it takes several years to fully heal from the trauma of an average affair, and your case goes considerably past average. You'll have good days and bad days, but it WILL get better.
3. Get your family behind you, making clear that you want to save your M if WH is willing to continue to make the effort on his part.
4. If any of these adulteries involved married OP, tell their spouses asap. Any negative consequence your WH faces is a natural result of his own bad choices, and not your problem. Those BS's have a right to know.
5. Relax and watch WH's efforts to become a FWH. He needs to do the heavy lifting in your R. If you find yourself working harder and caring more than he does, it's time to sit down and re-evaluate your approach.
6. Avoid lovebusters. As much as you will want some days to just shriek at him and perhaps enact violence upon his person, don't do it. Come here and yell, scream, vent, whatever. Then you can calmly tell him how you feel, and what hurt you.
7. Go get a good night's sleep tonight. Tomorrow's another new day. Time is your friend, no matter what you ultimately decide to do with your life. You can't recover faster by rushing it, so take your time.

That's probably enough for the first day - don't worry, there's sure to be more soon. {{{{{navewife}}}}}

Also, wow that's a lot of encounters. I would definitely recommend a lie detector test to make sure you know the whole truth. Wondering if there's more you don't know will drive you crazy, and ruin any attempt at R.

You know that he will need to stop chatting on the computer. And this girl, he needs to have NO contact with her at all and you need to enforce this. She needs to be sent a No contact letter from your wayward husband.

I just dont know how to handle the others, but precautions need to be taken and he need to have complete transparency.....you need to know everything he is doing, everywhere he is goin and everyone he is seeing and talking to.

He will do all this if he is serious about wanting to save his marriage...dont accept any less. Many on here have been through false marriage recoveries and they are painful...so you need to make sure precautions are put in place.

Some of the vets will be able to give you more details. Hang in there.

Yes, a lie detector test would be a good start. I agree.

I am so sorry you are here. You will get great advice and lots of support from this site. My WHs latest A was while I was pregnant, and then I found out about the 2 other ONS, which happened while I was pregnant with our two other sons.

I have the same kind of days where I wake up and my world is spinning. Somedays I just wish my mind would go blank for a minute to give me a break. I go from, "I love my husband so much we are going to make this work to.....I am so out of here what was I thinking, make this work, I am an idiot".

What keeps me going is my three boys. They deserve to grow up in a two parent loving home, with parents who are in love. We are counseling with Steve Harley and he is great. I agree call him ASAP for help.

I would install a key logger on the computer if I were you...and not tell him about it.

I'm so sorry this has happened to you. I'm currently pregnant now and found out my WH has cheated on me. I'm also a military wife.

Keep reading the materials here on this website, read the book "Surviving an Affair". keep posting here for support.

I'm not sure the "secret" keylogger will work, since he was posting here before she started posting today. She will have to find other methods of verification, I'm afraid.

tl

Trouled by the bi statement. Best to call the Harley's.

Once was an experiment.

Whether the B'er or the B'ee or both. To keep on doing this is a red flag.

I can see years later where the WH says he prefers men to women and says arreverdice.

I know you have 2 kids with him and stuff but the multiple bi-A, plus the porn and the tendency to go to girls bars (which my H also had and should have been a big red flag)...all of this = a man who is no M material and a potential for STD.

blessing

I think this may be only time I have dissented with what I have read before. But SSA is NOT the same kind of infidelity. It just isn't. Anyone who is gay will tell you. If DH cheated with a woman, I would work MB until my head fell off. If he had a realtionship with a man -- no. Never. Period. I have seen three dear friends go through this, and it ain't the same.

I agree with you lurioosi.
I did not want to say this but I will. I will discourage you from fixing this M. He is broken and again, with his bi-sex preferences who knows how things will turn out in the future...
blessing

navewife, I've had a number of gay friends in my 50+ years. Some of them were married and had kids. Eventually those men left their families to pursue a 100% gay life. I'm sorry you're going through this, but someone who has had as many gay encounters as your WH has had, well, I think it's just a matter of time before he leaves you for a man he finds as his "soul mate."

Sorry, nave.

My brother dated the same girl through a lot of HS and some of college. The single most respectable and honorable thing he ever did ws to sit her down and tell her that though he loved her, he could never make her happy because he was gay. I admire him for not dragging her into a life of misery just so he could appear straight.

Ron Woolsey is a former homosexual who has a great many interesting things to say on the subject. I found one video he did, Compassion without Compromise, and there are at least 3 more I haven't found yet, Set Free, Living Free, and one more, don't know the name.

There may even be somewhere to watch these online for free.

They might be an helpful resource for both of you as you consider whether or not to continue trying to repair your M.

This is the advice to follow....sorry but no man does this kind of stuff that is straight...no way no how.....he will just surpress it for season to fool you...cause he wants a life/relationship with you and your kids....but he can't be a true husband to you IMO....he can simply drive up to the local library and hook up for a bj in minutes w/o you ever being the wiser.....these men troll like this everyday and it's easy to find others like you.....there's no fixing this.

nav, sorry you find yourself here.

First and foremost you need to schedule an appt with your doctor for STD testing. Your H has exposed you to multiple partners and it is dangerous.

Like others here I think that the woman was incidential compared to 5 men. I do not think this is the first time he has "experimented". There are too many available woman who would accomoodate his preference for BJ. Not to be gross but was he the giver or taker?

If he was the giver then I would say take your children and get yourself out of this unhealthy relationship.

and she is supposed to believe that if he just recieved a bj and didn't return the favor he's not got serious homo issues? NOWAY....they both engaged in this behavior on each other....both men....noway did one do it and the other sat there doing nothing....get a lie dector test done but really you don't need one IMO....either way this is a no go situation....call Dr.H and get his take but truly this man isn't dealing with his real sexual orientation and is living a big lie.

I may get in trouble for saying this, but I will anyway.

I believe 100% what the Bible says about homosexuality being a sin. I also believe that when God offers to help us overcome all our sins, He includes homosexuality.

So I don't give this M anywhere near as good of odds as for your average A, however I serve a big God who can make over any heart to a perfect likeness of His own. That includes forgiving and changing a homosexual or bisexual into His own perfect, pure image.

With the Great Healer on the team, I can't discount the possibility of recovery, even though the odds may favor failure. The blood of Christ can change the odds, if it's claimed on behalf of a repentant sinner.

ITA Neak.

I have met former homosexuals at a church conference who have left that lifestyle and are now completely hetro.

I do think Naveguy and Navewife have a whole different bunch of stuff to make it through a recovery than the rest of us, BUT I do believe it can be done. I would like to see them putting some of the MB concepts into practice... start moving on a plan for marital recovery. Yes NaveG needs to deal with the same sex stuff, yes he should be attending sex addicts. It doesnt change the fact that they need to do the ENQ and LBQ and read the 10 basic concepts and DO them.

I think it's up to the BW to figure out if she wants to save this marriage or not. And if she does we should continue to give her the MB advice. If not then we should also support her decision and help her through that. Men, women doesn't matter - he cheated right? And we help people who are going through the emotions of finding out your spouse is having an affair.

I too believe God can do anything, no matter how impossible it seems. I am sorry I came on so strongly. I let some personal things get in my way. If a BS comes here and wants to save their marriage from any infidelity, then MB is the best way to do it.

Sometimes it's hard to be objective when something hits close to home.

Ok, Let me start by filling in a few details I left out before in order to keep as short as possible. First, when I asked him about the men, and how it all started, he said, he still doesnt understand it all himself,BUT,said everything started with the PORN and masturbation. I compare the description to a drug addiction type thing. He said he needed the porn to be more and more kinky, and so that led to watching men, and sometimes he would masturbate to it. Said but he was confused cuz as soon as he finished, he would feel descusted with himself. The porn led to chatting, and the chatting, led him to meeting,ect.. Said that his urges got more intense and outrageous and he wanted to try the man thing to experiment and do something that was Taboo, he said that is what made it exciting was the fact it was exotic per say. He said he is not "attracted" to men at all, and has NEVER had absolutly ANY desire to do anything other then the oral. He said that the women are easy to find for sex but they all wanted money, and he wasnt paying. Said it was easier to "hookup" with the men. Now we have been in counseling since FEB and I just gave him the computer access back. He has not watched the porn at all and said to me that since he has stopped the porn and masturbation that the urges have all stopped. He has also taken the advice of the counselor and kept himself very busy with the housework,kids, ect... making him be a more productive member of the family(he was useless before always in bed on the computer)The counselor said that was a sign that he was depressed, and depressed people are empty inside, some people reach for alcohol or drugs to fill the void, he reached for sex. He is currently also taking meds for depression and anxiety. He has been to church with us every sunday since and wants to convert now. (said he feels he really has strayed from GOD and wants to clean his life up on every level. Now I am certainly not dumb, and definatly am not going to give myself any permission to take any of it with a grain of salt. I know full well that if this is a true addiction problem, he will be battling with it. I have already went to the doctors as soon as I found out and got tested, and made him get tested as well. Thank GOD he didnt give me anything when I was pregnant! I also have plans to open my own bank account and start stashing some money away so I wont be so vulnerable if this happens again. I am not 100% sure I can do this yet, but I do want to at least try to salvage my marriage. I feel that if he is willing to do the therepy,rehab, and church and be a fullfledged participating family member, and try as hard as I see he is, then maybe, we will have a chance to possibly get passed this enough to salvage something. I feel I must at least TRY to work this out so if one day it doesnt, and I leave, I will NEVER wonder "what if" and I will be able to honestly look my children in the eyes and tell them I tried my best. I can tell you though WITHOUT A DOUBT, that the minute I find out any of this is happening again, I will be out so fast his head will spin. I refuse to do it over and over. I also told him I dont even need proof...if he so much as looks guilty, I GONE. So he better walk a staight line, and stay away from ANY and ALL suspicious looking activity. I was very pleased to see some others here believe in the same GOD that I do. I have prayed so hard over this, and I feel like if both of us work hard and pray, GOD will bring us to where we need to be. God bless all of you here, and Thanks for all your support and opinions, and advice. You all have given me alot to think about, but I at least dont feel so alone anymore. I know I have a very long road ahead, and Im such a mess mentally right now, its so hard to hide it from my babies, but having a place here to come and let loose, is helping a great deal. God Bless All of us!

You're tough -- I like it!

This is yet another reason that I don't quite buy the "porn is great" routine. I have never personally known anyone for whom porn was a good thing. And it is like a drug, it needs to be weirder and weider after awhile.

I am hoping good things for y'all, but hold him to the fire. My H didn't give an inch for at least a year. AT LEAST. The WS's job is to be open, humble, responsible, and reassuring 24/7.

A search through the forum history for homosexuality and other similar words is very instructive.

Sounds like you have a very good plan. You are going to get through this.

Homosexuality is not a sin.
You are free to say whatever you want but I am free to tell you that this is ridiculous.
Plus, the god you talk about is pure LOVE. There is only one god and that equals love. God will not take away love from anyone including a homosexual. Form (us in the human form) expresses itself in many ways.
Your H has huge issues no more and no less than any ethero WS on this forum. No less than my WH for sure.
The only thing you are risking here is, as it has been said to you already, that your H truly will prefer men in the long run. NO straight guy will go for a man. That is a fact.

blessing

I'm not going to get into any sort of boxing match on the subject of homosexuality. I'm also not going to express any of my own opinions about it. When it comes to a question of sin vs. not sin, I look to the Bible. Sometimes I will find broad principles to guide me, and other times it is very clearly spelled out.

The Bible is very clear on God's love, and it's also very clear that clinging to known sin results in judgment and death, whether that sin is a big one, or something that seems small, like gossip.


There is more clear guidance in the Bible on the subject of homosexuality for anyone who cares to look.

Thank you, atena. SOMEONE had to say that...

To the OP, it IS a sin. She has already expressed her belief in and a relationship with God. To try and refute HER beliefs is not very helpful.

We each have our own beliefs and if we chose relationship with God.

I agree with PM that the OP feels that is wrong in God's eyes.

Based on that we need to figure out what will help her to recover her M if that is what she choses.

Her obstacle which has been pointed out again and again that H might chose this lifestyle in the future instead of full recovery.

I really believe that he is NOT gay. Although, I dont believe he is straight either, because as many of you pointed out, NO straight man would do what he did. That being said..we have discussed this in detail many times now, and in session with our counselor. He is NOT attracted to men, doesn't want and has NEVER wanted to do anything other then the oral. I think if he was gay and preferred men totally, he would have went further then the oral, and experimented with everything. He tells me that since he has not been watching porn or masturbating(at the advice of his counselor) he has noticed that those feelings have gone away. He doesnt have that urge to do that. Not to say it wont rear up again in a few years when this stress calms down a bit. The counselor said that is something he has to work on to figure out why he was depressed, and tried to reach for something to fill in the empty feelings inside him. I have heard a few stories now from other web sites that I am on, and I am noticing that my H is doing alot more then most WH when they get busted. The fact that he has really gotten involved with the church the way he has really encourages me to want to try. I feel as though he is working at this, when if he didnt want this marriage, he could so easily walk away and do whatever, and just send me the check. The facts have been beten to death. I want to try to stay and work on the marriage. I know full well what he has done, (dont really understand it) but I know what has happend already, and I really can tell you I believe we truely love each other. I just dont know how to move on with NO trust at this point. Also anger is really getting the best of me. I am sooooooooooo furious. I feel stupid, for not seeing things that are so clear now when I look back, and I feel hatefull for me being pregnant and very sick my whole pregnancy, and all he did was lay around in bed.(feel stupid that I didnt see that as depression) I really am just grasping for some advice to help me try to curb the anger and self loathing.

NW ~ I am going to respond to what you said on your H's thread, and I'm sorry if this has already been addressed but it's really really important that you understand this.>

You are going to need to eventually fully grasp how what you "did" in your M was not helpful and it wasn't even healthy.

By taking all responsibility away from your H, you added to his sense of entitlement [and I am not trying to beat you up here, I did the same thing in my M so I understand!]

So your H had no responsibility (or very little...no housework, no yardwork, no childcare)...AND he was able to go out and have fun/party like an 18-year-old. He was being treated like an irresponsible teenager and so he acted like one!

I know you thought you were being kind/loving/giving...but in hindsight do you see that you were not? It is not kind to take all responsibility from ANYONE...it sets them up for an enormous sense of entitlement.

And also...I would imagine you had at least SOME sort of resentment from this, I know I did. You need to begin getting to a place where anytime you feel any sort of resentment you are able to say tell your H this. Do not ever agree to anything that you will feel resentment for.

Resentment=disaster in a M.

I have spoken with my counselor many times about how I took all the responsibility in the relationship, and I get why that why that was bad in the logical sense, however, I still cant connect how he could do this emotionally. Especially since he never ever once let on that something was wrong. He always bragged to me that I was the "cool" wife, and he was glad I was not like all his friends and coworkers wives, always showered me with compliments and tried to build me up. I have a really LOW self esteem problem. I am really self conscious of how I look. He would always tell me I was hot, and always tell me if a friend or coworker would say so too. He would even get mad if I was particularly down on myself. Of course since the discovery, that hasnt changed just got way stronger, almost to the point of making me sick. My self esteem is through the floor right now. I mean not only was I not enough, but I was SO BAD Sexually that he had to find the ugliest fattest girl, and men to get what he needed. I mean at least if the girl was prettier,skinnier, or younger, I could maybe make some kind of sense of this, but this girl was not any of the above, and men....well I dont even have to go there. I am so so angry, and yet here I am staying, frozen, not knowing how to proceed. I love him, and I hate him. I dont want to make any big decisions until I find a way to cool down and think rationally. I just dont know how I am going to find ANY trust. I have seen a few posts where people have made it through this and say they trust again, and its wonderful now, ...but then my mind wonders, did the betrayed spouse just learn to hide it better? I am so scared that if I stay, I will miss it next time, he will hide it better, and what if he does it again, and I find out by getting a disease. I really want to make this work, but I just dont know how I will get passed the distrust. Right now I have NO affection for him AT ALL. He is doing what he is supposed to right now. He is more involved in family, housework, ect... and making himself TOTALLY transparent. However, sometimes seeing him 'bend over backwards" kinda pisses me off. Its like OH NOW you decided to do that, or it just reminds me of all the years of instead of helping me, he was out galavanting around. (Couldnt drive a mile from the house to get daughter from daycare, but sure enough could get in the truck and drive cross town for a BJ) He is working hard to show me he wants to stay, I have been pretty rotten to him, NO affection at all because sometimes I cant even look at his face I am so angry. Hugging makes me want to cringe. I am "lovebusting" all over the place. I know we cant move forward till that stops, but how do you do it? Most of the time I am on autopilot, how can I overcome the anger and hate to do the work it will take to move on?

NW- I think you're right to watch for when all the stress he's going through is over. The saying is there are no athiests in foxholes- extreme stress can change behavior, it's how it STAYS changed that matters.

NW, I know that me saying this won't automatically change anything, but what your H did was not your fault. Not your fault. It is not a sign that you aren't good enough, pretty enough, anything. People might say they cheat because of these things, but they don't. I didn't cheat because DH isn't handsome or good in bed or anything else. I cheated because I was selfish and callous and entitled. My cheating didn't say anything about my H; it said volumes about ME. Was our M perfect? No, but I did not have to choose to cheat. My H didn't choose to cheat, and he was in the same M I was in.

You tried your very best to be a good, lovong wife to your H. Did you makes some mistakes? Yes....I mean, you are a human being. But even after all you have been through, you are still here. You still love your H. Do you not realize how amazing that makes you? Yes, you both have work to do, but you actually want to do it. Try to give yourself some credit.

He did this because his sense of entitlement and grandiosity was fueled and HUGE due to him never having to take any responsibility for himself. A spoiled 18-year-old would throw his parents under the bus as well even though they had given him "everything" and had done "everything" for him.

The more we "get" without having earned it, the more we believe we are entitled to. It's human nature.

Bragging that you have a "cool" wife screams of immaturity to me.


It sounds like you are confusing self-esteem with self-confidence. Self-esteem is gained when someone is a good person, in and out, and does good things...does not screw up morally or ethically.

Self-confidence is what you are talking about in regards to how you look. All BSs go through what you are talking about, it's normal and I am sorry you are hurting. As time goes on and you get into a solid recovery this will get a lot better.


All WSs "affair down", it's par for the course. It had nothing to do with how you are sexually and certainly it had nothing to do with your physical attractiveness. This was ALL ABOUT YOUR WH's selfishness and entitlement, and nothing else. It wasn't even about the OW (or men)...it could have been Bozo the Clown. Eventually I hope you will see this.


As I said, they never are any of the above...not only that but it wouldn't matter even if she was...it is all very hurtful and mind-boggling. This wouldn't help you.


Go to SoCal12thman's thread and read the EPs he is working on with tst...you and your H need to use these same EPs. This will begin to make you feel safter.


You need to start working the MB program. Your best bet would be to coach with SH or Jennifer. If that isn't possible then order the books, begin reading them and implementing all of the concepts into your M. Right now you are just spinning your wheels...you need a PLAN. Coaching is best but if you can't swing it then start trying to do it on your own.

It's true, you really can have a great marriage but it isn't going to "just happen"...you have to MAKE it happen!

Excellent post MarFor!


In most cases, no. The BS saw a permanent change in their WS from the inside out.

And, once you have a truly repentant and de-fogged spouse, if they were to take up again you'd spot the fog pretty quickly.

To some, "gay" means "embracing the gay lifestyle", as in living openly with other men, cruising openly for male partners, etc. Sometimes it means effeminate behaviour and cross-dressing, too, but not always. "Gay" is usually about the lifestyle.


Absolutely. Your WH may not be "gay", but his behaviour is most certainly homosexual.

Remember that senator from Idaho - can't remember his name - who got caught trying to pick up men in the restroom at a Minnesota airport? He also protested, "But I'm not gay!"

Well, it's true he didn't seem attracted to the "gay lifestyle." He was married to a female and had a family and seemed quite content with that. But his behaviour was most certainly homosexual.

navewife, I think you're in the same boat with your WH. Just wanted to point out that *sometimes* the terms "gay" and "homosexual" have different connotations, especially if you're dealing with somebody who is desperately trying to split hairs to explain their actions.

Mulan....what a wonderful answer and clarification for NW! I too remember that Senator getting caught tappin his foot in the public men's bathroom....guess it is a hot spot to pick up action in many of these men's bathrooms posted about online and so on....not sure how NW could be certain her H wouldn't be engaging in this activity in the future....to easy to come by.

Good old Senator Widestance.

I'm thankful to have never witnessed such activity in a men's room. But interestingly enough, my mother used to warn me not to tap my feet when she sent me to a public restroom when I was a boy. Apparently this has been going on for a long time.

In order to achieve protection from this, you might have to think outside the box. The wife could open the men's room door and holler inside "Is anyone in there?" before her husband goes in, and holler at him to come back if someone else comes in after him. She could time him. She could send him with someone trusted to watch over him. They could plan to not be gone from the house for more than an hour or two at a time. They could look for "family" restrooms. She could go with him into the men's room and only into empty men's rooms.

Sad that you'd have to do such things for a grown man, but if my wife was worried about me, I'd do it.

being the Mom to all boys I never told them a thing about not tapping their feet nor did my spouse...until that Senator Widestance got caught I had NO IDEA that such things occurred in men's public bathrooms! From what I read online basically certain ones are selected for this "hookup" and that's why that under cover cop was in the potty waiting to nab any other tapping occupant.

I don't know Markos...If his wife does all those things your listing....it just seem overwhelming to have to go to that extreme....but if she doesn't then she may wind up with a disease....it is her call what will make her feel safe to be with him.

I really dont know what I will do. Yes, I am going through the motions of checking him. He has surrendered all his accounts passwords to me, I have done a check to investigate how many accounts and social networks he has on line, and so far he has told me the truth about that. He has put GPS on his phone, and calls me everytime he is going or leaving somewhere. He is trying his best to be transparent for me, to give me some feeling of security, but the idea of doing all that checking in the mens room is absolutly not realistic. There is NO WAY I am going to be able to be with him every second of every day, ..yes, I know this means he could squeeze in "playtime" in there, and that my efforts are not fullproof. However, I just cant live my life being his mother. I married him to be his wife.NOT his mom. I know if I stay I am going to have to give him some trust. Eventually anyway. I know staying with him leaves a HUGE possibility of me getting a disease if he is not serious about staying faithful. That is just the kind of choices I am trying to sort through now . YES I am terrified that he will do this again, girl or guy, and I am terrified that I will find out by getting a disease, but I have to admit, he is really doing alot of work to show me he wants to be here as well. I really want to believe him. I feel it necessary to give him just one chance to prove what he is saying. Believe me, I am in the process of preparing my self a separate account to be ready to leave at the first sign that he has strayed, I WILL NOT do this again. He has this one chance only to make it right!

I dont mean to keep harping on this NW...BUT I feel so compelled to say please bear in mind that your H must first accept his issue with homosexual behavior....trying to deny it for say it was just oral with a men no biggie is not being truthful to himself or you. He has posted that he engaged in this activity by giving & receiving this sex act....hetro men do not do this with other men....denial of this fact is going to get you spinning your wheels until he slips up again and you may not be able to monitor him like a police officer....nobody can do that....the stress of that situation would kill all the love you have for him in time.

The best that could happen now is for him to be honest about his same sex attraction issue....get help for it (lot's of places for it....Joe Dallas....Exodus Internation....NARTH) google them and read the available articles online....also call them directly for answers...there are great books out by the founder of NARTH....worth reading so you understand the psychological background of this behavior...it is not something that your H can tuck under the rug....it's worse in my mind then him being with OW.....way way worse....if you could manage to get help for those sources or do counseling at least just once with Steve H from this site you could get better advice....he must have dealt with this issue before.

In the end...the choice will be yours....and you need to let go of the guilt you may feel if you simply can't trust him ever again...I know for myself I never could but we are all individuals and we all have limits to what we can deal with and what we simply cannot.

Thanks for your advice, I am analyzing everything I read. I understand the concepts and how MB works, its just I am having a hard time implementing anything right now. I mean, how do you NOT lovebust when there is sooooo much anger and hurt inside. I tried to "jump in" head first when I was in the panick of "save my marriage" but now, I am trying also to work on myself. I feel like I have lost my mind and dont even know myself anymore. Feel really lost. So I am really finding it difficult to find feelings of love and affection of any kind right now. My mind replays the events in my head like a broken record, its exausting. I definately will be reading as much info as I can from this website, I know I have a LONG road ahead if I am going to try to work this out. Just feels like its hard to figure out where and how to make those first steps. Thanks again

Take good care of your body and exercise. At least once a day, do something that's so vigorous that you don't have time to dwell on the mental movies.

When you're overwhelmingly feeling the urge to lovebust, walk away and take care of yourself till you can calm down.

What you're feeling is very normal.

Thanks Neak, I am trying to do that. Hard to walk away with new baby and 6 year old around sometimes, but I am trying. By the way, My counselor suggested I get on meds for my anxiety, I really dont want to be on meds, I read that st.johns wart is a good natural substitute for Zoloft, does anyone know anything about any natural supplements or viatamins I could take for my nerves?????

I have heard St. John's Wort can be helpful, though have never taken it myself.

Regular exercise is a great mood-lifter.

I know you dont want to take meds, but they helped me tremendously coupled with IC....meditation is also good, even if its only for 15 minutes a day, there are some good meditation CD's....journaling is also good, it helps with the ruminating bad thoughts a lot. I dont know how, but it works. Its like once you put it on paper, its stops going thru your mind so much...

I will have to try journaling, I definatly have to do something, i have so much hate and hurt , and just cant stand my mind racing all the time. I am so afraid I will lose my job and have to be dependent on my husband, and that thought scares me to death. I will try the journal thing. I am trying to get into the excercise thing, its been hard since I just had a baby, but I did buy an excesise program and plan to begin soon. I am trying to organize my house, finances, and self so I can get some sort of feeling of control in my life. Thanks all for your support and advice. I am sooo glad I found this site.

Hang in there, navewife...I am glad you are gonna try the journaling, it really did help me. And someone on here gave ME the idea. I had never journaled in my life, well maybe as a child, so I was skeptical....but I knew the people on here know their stuff. Somehow it really helped me a lot.

Its like once you write it on paper, your mind feels as if you dont need to keep thinkin of it as much...write down everything you feel or are thinking. Hope it helps you.

Also ask for and accept help from your family. You shouldn't have to go through this alone.

Good quality Omega 3 supplements (fish oil or krill oil) is supposed to be good for proper brain function. Take a good quality multi-vitamin too. Get some sunshine every day directly on your skin (not long enough to get burned though). Vitamin D is proving to be pretty important, and the best source is sunshine. Like another poster suggested, exercise.

If you want to use St. John's Wort or another natural supplement, you might want to go to a Naturopath or a doctor who integrates natural treatments in their diagnosis. Also, although supplements are "natural" that doesn't mean they don't have side effects. Make sure you look those up (mayoclinic.com has a lot of information on vitamins and supplements at their site). In addition, most pharmacists are familiar with the ingredients of popular natural supplements and can give you some advice on side effects, interactions with other things, etc.

I use natural supplements and am lucky to live in an area with a recognized Naturopathic Medical School. I always look up the interactions at the Mayo Clinic site as well.

Hang in there!

Yeah, I have a doc appt this week comming, and will ask him, but navy medicine is usually not into the natural stuff. Still have to talk to him though, because I am taking meds for my thyroid and have to make sure the natural stuff doesnt interfere with my synthroid. Thanks for all the advice:) I am so lost rightn now,but very thankful I have people to talk to.

What are your reasons for not taking meds? Are you breastfeeding?
I refused meds (stupidly) for anxiety and PTSD for months, (I thought of weight gain, lower SF drive .ect) and, what an error on my part! Effexor .Sp? was wonderful, allowing me to sleep, think and feel better. No weight gain, and it elevated mood!

After a fashion it hurt my stomach (bitter tasting pill- )

SO I went on welbutrin. I have had weight loss, no SF effects and (tho not as good as effexor) a calmer feeling. You know the rapid heartbeat, the racing thoughts and the general feeling of anxiety that you have?

You do not have to feel them. Not to the extent that you are describing, anyway.

St. John's wort does have a good rep. But suppliments are not well regulated, and you have no assurance of dosage. ie: do not think because it is "natural" that it is better for you than other meds.

I also take DIM-Y (natural suppliment) to help keep a better balance with estrogen in my system. Keeps the "hormonal sway" at bay.

If you do choose to try them, be preparred for many visits, it takes time to regulate the dosage. You have to be responsible on these, too. You can not quit cold turkey

(ps I am not a doctor, and I do not play one on TV)

I am just one of those people who doesnt take meds. I bearly even take cold medicine. Usually when I have a cold I will just put a halls in hot tea and use a vaporizor. I have a hypothyroid, so I have to take synthroid, but I really dont like meds. I also have a lot of problems with weight fluctuation because of my thyroid disease, so yes side effects worry me greatly. I have some friends that were on those meds and they did gain ALOT of weight, and the whole thing about me not being able to just quit cold turkey worries, me. I feel like if I do gain weight, then I wont be able to just stop quick enough if I am not happy with the med. I stopped breastfeeding when I discovered about the affair. My baby was a very big baby 10lbs 7oz and his collar bone was broken at birth, so I was having problems with him latching, I tried just pumping, but when I discovered what happend with my husband, it was all just too much. I just couldnt keep up,and my milk went down. So that is not a factor in the med thing, its mostly just me being me when it comes to taking any kind of med is all. I also fear that I will have a hard time comming off the meds. What if I cant, what if I feel like i MUST have them. I will give some thought to them, but I definately want to try the natural approach first, and I definately will talk to my doctor before I do any of that...I have to because of my thyroid condition. Thanks for your thoughts and advice, I have a lot to think about.

I have had very good results with kava-kava. Research it thoroughly first. It is a non-addictive anxiolytic and is very good for sleep. Does not make you "high" or "out of it" and you can still work after taking it. It just eases the rage and anxiety. Just Google it and you will get many hits.

Thanks honey, I will look in to that, I havent heard of that one

ok, its 1130pm, I cant sleep, and cant stop crying. Im dying right now. I feel like I have been just muttling through each day. Cant think straight, cant make a decision to save my life. Nothing makes me happy. Even when my kids are being cute, what used to fill me up with joy, I find myself forcing a smile for, and that is just so I wont hurt my daughters feelings. I am so numb. When I smile or laugh at anything its forced, there is no real joy in anything. I am consumed by what my husband has done. I am consumed by the thoughts of would of ,could of, should have. I dont even rest at night, consumed with nightmares, and then the reality of every morning waking up to ""oh yeah, that did really happen" I want it all to go away, I want my old life back. I know I can never have it back and my old marriage and life are dead now, but I cant help it, I am stuck there. Like a nightmare that I can never wake up from. I know this is supposed to take a long time, but its already been 3 months that feel like an eternity. I feel like I am going no where, I dont want to leave but just cant figure out how to stay. I am sooo paranoid. sooooo afraid he will do this again. Will I be this way forever? Has anyone stayed and worked this out? Will I ever calm down and enjoy being in love, cuz right now loving him really sucks. I wish I didnt. I love him so much, and yet when I try to force myself into thinking about being affectionate toward him, my mind floods with thoughts of what he did. They take over. All I see is him driving home every other day texting her, or them meeting for lunch and sharing their day, and him sharing things about MY life, MY kids, with her. Fine if he shared himself was one thing but to include her into any portion of my life makes me feel sooo violated. She even had the nerve to text him after baby was born and ask how everyone was doing, I mean come on, she should have not have known anything about me other then he was married. The fact that he shared all that stuff with her makes me furious, and sick. Speaking of sick, then there is the thoughts of the men. I cant stop myself from thinking over and over about how he would do the oral thing with them when he got off work, then picture me comming home all those times, and him kissing me. Its enough to make me want to vomit. He tries kissing me now and thats all I see is some guys c*&K in his mouth. How am I ever going to get passed this. How can I find a way to be affectionate with him again. I am soo afraid I will either drive him away, or drive him right back in to a relapse. He swears he will wait as long as it takes, and he is here for me. Said he wont let me self destruct, but I already feel like I am doing that. Sorry to be dumping and collapsing here, but my mind is racing and I just need to get it out somehow. Just hate my life right now dont really want to be here anymore, but I would never do anything to hurt my children so I feel trapped, like I am suffocating right now. I think I just need reassurance that I can do this, that it is possible to overcome, and that this paranoia wont last forever.

THat's what we're here for. Vent here.

I understand about not wanting to take the meds - I was the same way - but I ended up on antidepressants for about a year because I just could not function any other way. I sounded just like you did in your last post, and hey, I used to be quite sane and normal too.

Please call and make an appointment with your doc first thing tomorrow morning. Tell them what is going on and tell them why.

If even that is too long to wait, you can go to the ER right now tonight and tell them the same thing. They will treat the anxiety right away and then your regular doc can set you up with the appropriate AD.

ADs are just emotional painkillers.

If you break your leg, you get Vicodin.

If your break your heart, you get ADs.

Please talk to someone about this. I did not want to do it either and held out for way too long, but as I said I did finally start an AD because I just could not take the pain any longer. I was on Pexeva, similar to Paxil, and used Ativan for the anxiety. I am completely off both of them now and only use Kava occasionally, usually just for sleep.

We've all been there. Sometimes the meds are the only thing left. You will make it.

You can do this. You can heal from this trauma. What do you need to do to take care of you? That's number 1.

It IS possible to overcome, as much as one can. I won't know if my husband truly overcame his addiction until the day he dies. For now, though, it's good. My husband's a recovering sa and has been sober/in recovery for 3 years now.

That said, if one lives with a recovering addict, there IS inherent risk involved. There is always risk of slips or relapse. Granted, that risk might be minimal. But it's still there. I have an exit plan that my husband is fully aware of, incase my boundaries are broken.

The best thing you can do for yourself is learn everything you can about this addiction, get help for PTSD in whatever form you are comfortable with and heal from this trauma, figure out your boundaries, and learn to trust yourself again. This to-do list needs to take place over the course of years. It takes couples 3-5 years to heal from sex addiction. You've got a long road ahead of you, should you choose to reconcile.

I've been terribly sick all day, so I don't know if anything I say right now will make much sense, but I just wanted to let you know that you are not alone. There are others here who have been where you are, and we made it through. There were times when I didn't think I would survive all of this, but I'm still here.

My situation is a little different from yours, though perhaps not so much. My H had a long term EA (somewhat PA as well, though no intercourse apparently) with an ex-girlfriend. He confessed that one to me about 6 months after it ended, but I didn't get the entire story until last year. During the EA, he also engaged in quite graphic internet sex with both men and women. No, it didn't progress to meeting in person and actually physically doing the acts, but in my mind, that didn't make much of a difference. I was still horrified to have to hear about all of the things my H had done with complete strangers. I still questioned his sexuality and wondered if I could ever trust him again. But our situation is much more complicated than yours, since I ultimately distanced myself from my H so much that I ended up having an A as well and getting pregnant by the OM. Now, my H and I are raising my OC and dealing with multiple A's.

It isn't easy, but it does get a little better everyday. 3 months may seem like a long time, but the road to R generally takes many years. The early months are definitely the hardest. This is a long and painful journey, but looking back on it, it is one that I am glad that I decided to take. My family is going through some very rough times right now with one of our sons, and I couldn't imagine not having my wonderful H by my side during all of this.

navewife
You will get to the other side of this, but it takes many months. Though my H had only one A with an OW, I felt as you do now. I could not function, I could not smile, I was a mess. I experienced anxiety attacks which I never had before and I had nightmares as you have described. I am soo sorry for your pain.

I wanted to let you know that I did not take ADs because I just didn't want to deal with "getting off of them". So it can be done.

Concentrate on you and your kids right now. Ask for the domestic help that you need from WH and any other friends or family who are around. Try to do one thing at a time and if that's all you can do in one day, so be it.

Be kind to yourself. Don't try to be supermom. You won't be able to and it will make you feel worse.

You're not alone. ((((((navewife))))))

{{{{{Navewife}}}}}

You will get through this. I can promise you that.

You will also have to go through this process whether you are with WH or not, except you wouldn't have help with the kids.

That shouldn't stop you from leaving if at some point you decide you no longer want to try and save your M. (Especially if you find there has been a relapse.)

It should only stop you from leaving if you think things will suddenly feel better for you if he's not around. It just doesn't work that way - you'll still have to deal with all the same images and nightmares before you heal.

Keep venting here, and just hold on. No matter what direction your M takes, this will get better for you.

Yes, it does get better...in time.

What you have described is understood perfectly by every BS here...we have ALL felt this same exact way. You have done a fantastic job of describing what we have all gone through.

navewife...I strongly believe that your anxiety would be helped tremendously if you had a good PLAN for recovery.

Do you have one? Can you counsel with Steve or Jennifer? If not you need to ask for help here and come up with a PLAN for recovery; writing out your EPs, figuring out ENs and LBers, etc.

Having a plan will help you to have HOPE that things can get better.

Look at the likelihood your husband is a sex addict. Research Patrick Carnes and his books, he is the expert.

Sex addicts will begin with porn/masturbation but will often move on to harder and harder stuff, like any other addiction.

Most sex addicts will engage in some kind of infidelity at one time or another, so it is not unlikely we will see many families hurt by infidelity of a SA, and will land here But not all infidelity is due to sex addiction.

I think you know it is more than just infidelity. And there is more to this than just some indiscretions that he can stop. he wants to stop, he truly does, but will be unable to unless he owns up to his behavior and begins to work on his compulsion as an addiction. This does NOT give him an out. If anything, this is tougher to deal with. He has used sex as a self-soother, his drug of choice, his companion, his secret life. And to quit cold turkey means he will go through some VERY hard times.

It is unlikely he can stop on his own. He will want to, but he will go back to the addiction of lying and self-soothing. He is asking you to regulate him, which is not fair to you.

Get help for yourself from someone experienced with sex addiction.

Thank you, I am still having the same feelings today, crying ect..but not as intense as last night. I felt like I was suffocating last night. Now I have the stress of my father being in the hospital with a possible heart attack. I probably will have to go home at some point, and not sure what to do. On one hand I want to leave the kids with him and go, so I can concentrate on my dad and not be distracted with everything going on and kids. ...but then I remember, the last time I traveled to home to see family is when he had the affair, he could so easily send my daughter off on a playdate, and do it again. God I just hate being so paranoid. I shouldnt have to feel like a babysitter. He is trying soo soo hard and doing everything he is supposed to, why cant I acknowlege that that is good. I am too afraid to feel comfortable with anything he does. I do want to work this out, I do want the fairytale ending where he sees what he has done and learned the error of his ways and never wants to hurt me again, I want to believe it so bad, but yet, I am afraid. Yes, I too have an exit strategy that I am in the process of setting in to place, but I dont want to even think that. I want this to work,but I feel like I am going to destroy any chances of that happening if I cant get my mind straight. THANK YOU ALL FOR HELPING ME WITH THIS, You all are helping me more then you know

I am not sure of where to start with a recovery plan. We can not afford anything right now, we just filed for bankrupcy. Things are super tight with new baby, bankrupcy, ect... I would love some advice on a first step direction to take with putting a recovery plan in place, I am so confused right now I dont know what to do or how to do it. I think I need someone to point me in a direction before I will be brave enough to take an step anywhere.

Well, here I am again. Just wanting to vent. Read his thread today, and was SUPER irritated. Couldnt believe that for one, he had the nerve to post something without talking to me first. I did not appreciate learning about it online. I had been out of town, but still he could have called me in the morning and discussed it so I didnt have to find out by stumbling upon it. Then the post itself sent me off like a bottlerocket. Talking about how he is still holding back and cant tell me everything. I mean...are you kidding me? One of the exuses or reasons he makes for chatting with the OW was that he could tell her things he was afraid to tell me because he was afraid of what I would think of him if he told me those thoughts.....so then chatting led to the A, now he is blatenly admitting he is holding back again, afraid of what I will think of him again, (isnt that where he started with this whole affair thing<?) I dont know how many times I have asked him since Dday to be honest with me, tell me everything, his thoughts and feelings along with his actions, and over and over he is spilling out new info that he has held back. I AM SICK OF IT!!! So I have put my foot down. I have given him multiple chances to straighten up, I am tired now. Done with giving him anymore chances. I mean really, if he has that much problem sharing with me, maybe that is a sign he doesnt neeed to be with me. As far as I am concerned if he loves me like he says, then sharing his every thought and feeling shouldnt be that difficult. HELLO,...I already know he had an affair, trolled online for men, had oral with several men, and LIKED it...and yet I am still here.....shouldnt that scream love and loyalty. WHY IS IT SO HARD FOR HIM TO JUST SHARE HIS THOUGHTS THEN??? I mean he cant possibly get any lower in my mind. So what the heck is he afraid of?? He said he was afraid of what I would think of him, and was afraid I would leave him. WHAT???? SERIOUSLY???? I KNOW HE LOOKED FOR AND HAD ORAL WITH MEN AND LIKED IT AND I STILL DIDNT LEAVE HIM AND HE IS WORRIED WHAT I THINK NOW. What a freaking idiot, I really dont know who I married. I am definatly with a stranger. Of course I guess I am just as much of an idiot for staying. Kinda how I am feeling now anyway. Why am I being a stupid idiot?? Thats ok, though, I told him I am at the end. He needs to just get it together or leave. If I find out he is holding back He will be out. He should not have to do so much psycho analyzing, sharing with me and being open with me should not have to be work, especially when I have shown him that he has done the most dispicable things and I am still here. That should scream safety to him. Shouldnt it? Why can he be open and honest with strangers but he cant with me. It just doesnt make sense

You should not be reading his thread.

He should not be reading your thread

Unless you give each other permission. Personal threads are to provide each spouse with a safe place to expresses honestly and get advice.

Nothing says, "You stupid @W#$&%" like a betrayed wife screaming at you.

There is a physiological reaction when someone you love and that you've hurt screams at you. It's not a healthy reaction.

And while the recovery of your marriage is up to him, the final destruction could easily be in your hands.

You have to get a handle on your temper. Read your signature and see if you can soften it.

Because "safety" that you claim he should feel, isn't what he feels when you blow.

Stop reading his thread.

Let us beat him up for you.

You work on you.

I would suggest you read my thread What kind of recovery?

Then get into an S-Anon group and start finding some serenity. FAST!

We will, too.

Seriously though, I'll make it three in a row. Lil and KA are right on in what they said about needing to stop read each other's threads, and controlling your AO's.

It stinks big-time, and the whole big mess isn't your fault at all. You still need to choose how you're going to react.

{{{{{Navewife}}}}}

I am so there!

He continues to come on for his daily beatings, lol, which should be encouraging to you, just a little.

On the one hand you don't want to get your hopes up, at least not for a long while, but on the other hand, as long as he's continuing to work at things, on MB and also with his SA groups, it's fine for you to be cautiously optimistic.

You will likely feel a lot of self-doubt, and I want to encourage you to trust your judgment anyway. What he's doing now is making progress, albeit slow (that's normal). If he stops making progress or begins to slide back, you WILL know. You WILL see a difference.

And if the time comes when the two of you have re-bonded in a strong, fulfilling M, you can also trust yourself to notice right away if he ever goes back. Your gut will most likely tell you before you ever find proof.

As you hang around MB and hear the things waywards say, you become more and more tuned in to fogspeak, and can recognize it a mile off. If your WH defogs, and then goes foggy again, you'll spot it every time it comes out of his mouth.

I would support you at any time that you chose to call it quits. I will just as cheerfully support you in trying to R your M. There is still hope, and time is your friend.

Thanks guys, I really do appreciate the support. I know its supposed to be his way to channel, but I just cant not read his stuff. I am soo soo paranoid. I have to know EVERYTHING, just to feel any sense of security. Like I told him, he lost the right to ANY and ALL privacy when he decided to be so deceptive in the first place, and if he cant live with that then he needs to leave. I have told him this several times. Besides, he has his IC for saying things in private. So its not like he has NOWHERE to spew his dumb thoughts. I totally understand where your comming from. I am just having a hard time. I am trying very hard to soften myself. I have not broken anything or hit him for a long time now, So I feel like that is some progress on my part. I guess, since I am not getting my anger out by doing that stuff anymore, I am trying to find a way to channel it someplace else, so it ends up on here. I hope your right I would like to think I would spot him slipping a mile away, but I feel like I was soooo sooo stupid before, not to see what was right in front of me, that what if I miss it next time. What if I find out by getting a disease? I am soo soo terrified. I REALLY REALLY want to make this work. I really miss the love and affection we once shared, but like I said before when I even try to get that back, my mind floods with the thoughts of what he did. I am trying so so hard, but just no affection yet. I know it takes a long time. I realize that. I do feel like I am making alot of progress with my temper at home though.

I totally get what you're saying about feeling a need to know EVERYTHING, and I'm still going to recommend staying off his thread.

If you do go on it anyway, then do not use that info against him. Don't blow up at him if you don't like what he said. Bring it onto your own thread, and let us help you with it. Please believe me that any foggy baloney he brings out will have a short shelf life here.

To clarify about knowing if he's cheating, you probably wouldn't see that big of a difference right now. Which of course is why you know instinctively you need to watch him like a hawk, to make sure he's not pulling a fast one.

After he's been fog-free for a while and you can see and appreciate the difference, *that's* when you'll be able to tell right away. For now, just keep watching. Don't let it rule your thoughts completely, but be vigilant.

You're off to a good start. Continue to work on channeling AO's into calm sharing, and take excellent care of your body and health.

Would you also consider seeing a CSAT of your own or attending a 12-step group for yourself? How do you think you'd feel about having fellowship of other women to call on, IRL?

I am seeing a counselor individually. As for Group therepy, I just went back to work from having a baby, and he already is going planning on going to meetings, we have a six year old with a very busy schedule. Its too hard for both of us to find time for meetings. Also, I feel like if we fill our schedules with all these meetings, all the time, we are taking away from our family time. I am doing the IC and marriage counseling for now, he is doing the IC and marriage counseling, and has attended SAA meetings. I think for now that will have to do. I know I am having a hard time dealing, but the biggest threat to our marriage right now is if he slips, so we need to get him on the right track. I have dealt with alot of bad things in my life...physical abuse by my dad, date rape ect...I never went to counseling for any of that, and I did fine. This is the first time I have had a hard time coping. I cant figure out why this is so hard when I have had things that were just as traumatic happen before and overcame it. Maybe because my husband was the one man I felt I had found that I could trust completely. In my mind, I had escaped a horrid life, and he was my savior. Now that all this has happend I am really lost and shattered. I feel I have No one in this life that wont hurt me and will keep me safe. I can only truely trust myself and right now, I dont even trust that. I feel like I have let myself down by staying. I have never before given ANYONE a second chance. If I got burned, I set the bridge on fire. So its like I really cant figure out why I am putting up with any of this. I really want to believe he is committed to fixing himself and this marriage, but now I am sooo soo afraid to trust in that.

Navwife,

Infidelity can be the worst trauma that a person goes through. There are few events that will compare(loss of a child is one).



You pretty much nailed it. The one person who we trusted with our lives was the one who hurt and betrayed us the worst. And it was their CHOICE to do it. We also feel we let ourselves down. We thought we knew this person. We thought we were smart enough not to get hurt like this, but we weren't. Lots of thoughts. Lots of anger. Learn to forgive yourself. It'll take awhile.

We've all been there and honestly I think self forgiveness was the last step I took. But there were many steps and you're at the beginning. TRY to go easy on yourself. This was not YOUR choice, you played no role in this.

And for the record, after sorting through all the emotions day in and day out, anger lingered the longest and was the hardest to rid myself of. This is usually the norm. So your "job" is to express it without AOs and without punishment. Yeah I know that's a tall order. But if a R M is what you want then you have to work towards that goal. Don't sabotage your own efforts.

(((navewife))))

Look into attending COSA meetings...like Al-anon for SA's.

Right now meetings are hard. He has his SAA and my daughter has scouts, and I have a 4 month old. We are going through bankrupcy which will be over in June, and so will school. I am hoping that once school is out and I dont have the pressures of homework, and scout meetings ect.. and the whole bankrupcy thing is not hangning over my head I will be in a better place to deal with some of this stuff. I am feeling extremly overwhelmed right now. I just cant take on anymore stuff...even if it is for me. I am just plain tapped out. I am just praying he is telling the truth when he says he loves me, and hoping that he will help keep me from falling out. He has been taking care of me since Dday. Making sure every thing around the house is done, setting out my meds in the morning so I dont forget to take them, reminding me of appointments. I am trying to take care of myself, but I am finding it soo soo hard. especially with the new baby, sometimes I wonder if I am having post pardem along with all this other stuff I am dealing with. I just feel so overwhelmed. I am having issues with why he cant feel like he can be completely open with me. He said he started chatting with the Ow because she didnt judge him and didnt care he was married, he could tell her everything, even his "freak" manstuff side, and she didnt care. That would be fine, back then, but how bout now, now when I know all of the dispicable stuff he did, and yet still decided to stay by his side, ...why is he still not opening up to me like he did the tramps??? I almost feel that the fact that he still cant open up to me says that he really doesnt love me. I mean, I love him, I hide NOTHING from him. He knows all my dreams, fears, opinions, thoughts and feelings. I dont hide anything from him, and I dont have to try to do these things, they just come natural. When I have to pull information out of him, I get so pissed because I feel like he shouldnt have to be coaxed in to telling me things. Even if its something I know I will be upset about...all I want is the truth. Good, bad , or ugly, I feel I LONG for the truth. Why could he share all of himself with them and still cant do it with me?

Try something new. Every single day, ask your husband to tell you something he would normally keep from you (and tell to other people including other women).

Ask him to tell you everything he would tell others. Tell him that when he feels like "spilling his guts" to someone, to call you up, text you, and immediately tell you the thing he was going to tell others.

Make sure you do ask him every day to open up to you until he gets into the habit of doing this.

I have told him that since dday, and he still bottled something up. That is what upset me so much. He didnt necessarily want to tell anyone else, he just had thoughts, that he didnt want me to know about. I have asked him everyday, and he didnt tell me till the other day when he put something on his thread that made me finally pull it out of him. I will tell him about the calling or texting me immediately and see if he thinks that will help. He says he will be honest with me from now on, and not try to tell me what he only wants me to see. I dont have much trust in that though. I told him he is going to have thoughts and stuff I wont like and probably throw a fit about, but I think if I am hearing it and he is telling me before he goes and slips up because he shares it with the wrong people, we might be able to get passed this. After the despicable things he has done and the way he lied to me about them, I need nothing but brutal honesty now. Thats all I want.

Maybe naveguy needs to understand something about women:

When we care enough to fight *with* you and *for* you, it means - yeah, it means we stil care.

When we go silent and don't bother you about things anymore (which is what men often think they want), it means we have by god Given Up because it's just too painful to deal with you for one second longer.

He might want to be sure of which one he really wants.

Your husband seems very immature and has a lot of problems. Can you stand to live with the way he is? He is sexually dirty. I am sorry but this kind of man....can you live with it?

You are having babies and working and he is trying out new exciting sex things with other people. This seems unfair. Is he a househusband? You know...bored?

navewife, people will not be honest with others if they will be punished for it. And by punished I mean yelled out. Kids will tell a lie so they don't get yelled at, well, so will adults. If you want honesty from him you cannot yell at him for it. You have to make it safe for him to to do it.

He's going to tell you stuff that you're not going to like. So how will you REACT? Are you going to stay calm and allow him to do it, thank him for being honest and then think about what he just said? Or are you going to blow up on him? This is the dynamic that YOU can change in this M. He doesn't feel comfortable with you and I could even guess that he is/was afraid of your response. Make it safe for him to be honest. Don't go ballistic, STAY CALM. If it is devastating news, STILL say calm. Take it in or ask to discuss it later if it is too difficult to hear. Thank him and come HERE to vent.

Hang in there. It does get easier. Promise. ((((navewife))))

Michele, I just dont know that I can do that. I am not one to bottle up anything. I am and have always been brutally honest. The way I see it. This is me, this is the person he married. I told him that he needs to be brutally honest with me. If there are things I dont like ( and I am sure there are) ,then let me be the one to decided if I can deal with them or not. There is no sense in trying to save this marriage by holding back anything, on either side. The way I feel is that if he tells me things I dont like I may blow up, but it may be something I can accept and deal with or at least deal with him and communicate about, but if he holds back because he wants me to see him a certain way,then we are just right back to where he started these affairs in the first place. I should get to decide if what he shares with me is something I can live with or not. If what he shares with me makes me angry or uncomfortable, then at least I can make the decision on if I can live with that. If I blow up and he cant handle, or if I cant help or support his thoughts, and he cant live with it, then maybe we have no buisness being married. I really feel that both of us SHOULD be REAL with each other not tiptoeing around each other. Like I said if neither one of us can deal with each others truthes then maybe that is a sign that we dont need to be with each other. That is how I feel.

Yes he should be honest. That's what got him into this mess in the first place. And yes, YOU should be the one to decide if you can handle the information or not. He doesn't have the right to withhold anything. With that being said it's still a matter of human nature.

You want the information.
You have a right to the truth.

It'll be easier for YOU to attain that goal if you can stay calm when he tells you things. If you can stay calm once, the chance is higher that when he should tell you something else, he will.



((((navewife))))

navewife - here is a link that I sent to your husband. It's an old MB thread on Passive/Aggressive (P/A) behaviour.

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=622389&page=1

You might want to look at this, because I think it's what you're dealing with.

It may be no accident that the things he DOES tell you about just happen to be the ones that cause you to blow your top.

P/A people are very much invested in remaining VICTIMS.

Why? Because if you're a victim, then nothing is your fault and you will therefore not have any consequences.

The P/A behaviour drives their spouse crazy, but that's good because then they get to be the poor poor victim of their mean crazy spouse.

This is called "button-pushing". You are going to have to move your buttons so he can't push them anymore. There is more about this in the thread.

Just wanted to tell you again that I am praying for you, that God gives you the strength you need to get through this. Just know that you have people who care and understand. i know it helps me to be reminded of that now and again.

Thanks Half unit, yes it does help to be reminded of all the support here. Sometimes I just get frustrated and feel lost, because while there are so many people here who can relate to the affair aspect, I have yet to find anyone whos spouse is as screwed up as mine, meaning the whole woman and MAN thing. He had both a PA & EA with OW and then all the PA with the MEN. I just feel very alone in this sick world my husband has shoved me in to. I pray everyday and just hope my prayers are answered quickly, sometimes I just dont know how much more I can really take. I made the misteak of trying to have sex with him last night. We had not in the last 2 months, because I couldnt deal with the mind movies, and thoughts while we were intimate, so I just stopped but last night he was soo persistant, and I froze, I didnt tell him no , but didnt really go all in either, I was just there, letting it happen. Today, I had a really bad day. I regretted doing everything. How long will this last. I am really scared I am going to destroy anything I am trying to save. arrgg

NW, there were several times that H and I were in the middle of SF after my A that he just had to stop, couldn't do it. The movies, the hurt, were just too much at that moment. It is OKAY to feel this way. We would just stop what we were doing, talk if he needed to, or I would tell him again that I was so sorry, and let him have space. I think post A is the one time that SF is a privilege - not an EN that the WS can expect to have met at any time. We temporarily gave up that "right" when we cheated.

Thank you for that, I hope he is committed as he says. I just feel like all this talk of sex addiction, he will stray if I dont give in, but I am learning that I just cant do it. I am going to have to be ready before I can take that step I guess. But I appreciate your sharing.God Bless

aw, navewife - please don't fall into that trap. Surely you have already learned that you can't "make" somebody do the right thing through *your* actions.

If one partner chooses not to meet the ENs of their spouse - with or without an affair in the picture - then the spouse has the right to do two things:

1) Work with their partner to make things better,

or

2) End the relationship and walk away.

They do not have the right to "stray", although it is a fact that many people believe they do. It's almost like there's an unspoken piece of conventional wisdom that "everybody" knows about that "if you ain't gettin' it at home, you got the right to get it somewhere else."

And if somebody is caught cheating, the first thing everybody else says is, "Well, they must not a been gettin' what they wanted at home. What can you do? It's not THEIR fault. It's their spouses fault for not givin' 'em what they needed."

I'll bet you can just hear your family and friends saying that about naveguy - "well, if she wouldn't give him what he wanted - "

Again, please do not fall for that.

I grew up in Texas and I can remember a time when drunk driving was socially acceptable, too. Somebody could kill a whole family out on the freeway and the *defense* would be, "Well, he didn't wanna hurt nobody, but he couldn't help it. He was drunk."

I'm not kidding about this.

I hope we get to a time when such wretched excuses are no longer socially acceptable in marriage, either.

And in the meantime, realize that you CANNOT keep him from "straying". He is the only one who can do that. You will meet his ENs if and when you can. The rest is up to him. No more "drunk marriage defense" for him or for any other WS.

I read his post earlier about last night, so I am sorry you are feeling so bad. Do NOT rush anything. You all did not get here over night so do not expect to have things heal quickly. Take time to heal other things and let the physical part come when the time is right.

I am still waiting for the time when we are together and she is not with us (in my mind). We have tried all sorts of things, so far nothing has helped.

This is so difficult and putting unneeded stress on yourself will only slow things down. If you need to talk IM me.

I know in my mind that what you say is true. I also know that I cant meet his emotional need for sex right now and I am sure it will be a really really long time before I can. I dont want to leave but right now, I have nothing to give him. I know our marriage can not be one sided, I leared that the hard way by giving him everything and he felt "entitled" enough to do this to me. However, right now, The only thing I have for him is being here. I have NOTHING else. I cant even keep myself straight lately. I am thankful that he is willing to do what he has done so far. He is walking the walk, he is here, he is being transparent TOTALLY, he is taking care of the house, the kids, and me without us asking. He is going to church and talking to the chaplain at his work..on his own. I see he is trying ALOT harder then other WS I have seen on some of these threads, and I am thankful for that. I know alot of WS dont go that far. But right now I still cant give him anything. I am still so hurt and angry. I know if he cheats its on him, he said he wont cheat again, he hates seeing me go through such emotional trauma, but I cant help but feel like what if I take too long, what if I really drive him away. I guess, if I drive him away, then he shouldnt be here in the first place, it just hurts to think so.

I do not think you will drive him away and if you did then his loss. All I know is that we will come out of this stronger and wiser. I also need to think about my daughter and what this is teaching her.

I remember when I first found out and read how it was going to take like 2 years for me to heal. I was like .."not me, I will be all better in a few months". Ha the joke was on me, here it is 10 months and I am not at all better, some days I feel like I am going backwards in my healing.

This is just a lot for our brains to comprehend as well as dealing with a broken hearts. I'm sorry but if your H needs to wait weeks/months for you two together, then so be it. He made this mess and if he has to suffer a little...oh well!!!

Hang in there, take a day at a time, or an hour at a time which ever works for you and helps you through it.

Thanks, I am taking it a few hours at a time, I have to. I woke up today, thought I was dealing fine, then BOOM, went to docs, and on way to work, had a total meltdown, uncontrollable sobbing, hitting the steering wheel , screaming. It wasnt pretty. I have stopped home to get my self together to be able to go in to work. I also worry about how this will affect my daughters thoughts on marriage. I have done some damage in that area by allowing her to see the angry outbusts and telling her what daddy did during an angry outburst. (Not with the men though)I should not have destroyed the picture she had of her father. I feel like she wont bond with him now. She questions me all the time now asking why daddy didnt just marry the other girl and not hurt my feelings. She also keeps saying to me "WE" should leave daddy. I told her I was trying to stay with daddy, cuz I love him, and she replied, yeah, but I cant take it anymore, you guys fight all the time now. To hear this from my 6 year old breaks my heart. We had such a loving relationship, and it pisses me off that for 6 years she saw a very loving mommy, and daddy, and a daddy, who acted like he adored her mommy, and now she is dazed and confused with daddy, loving someone else, and lying (which is one of the no tolerance rules of our home) How do we tell her that lying is wrong, and severly punish her when she does it, but then she sees her daddy doing it, and doesnt look, like he is punished? I want her to get the right messages from this horrible situation my husband has created. I dont want her to give up on love or on loyalty,and marriage. I am so afraid we have scarred her. I am trying to do this a few hours at a time, trying to find some good to come out of it. Trying to be a better person, but I feel like all I keep finding is the ugliness in myself. I have rage and anger I never knew I could posses. I hate it. Again though, I am truely greatful for all of you people on this site giving your insight to this ugly process. I really dont know what I would do without this site. I have made an appointment with a psychiatrist, dont really want to do meds, but at least want to get a second opinion. God bless all of you

It was horrible how our daughter found out. The day I saw the proof on his computer I was so shocked I blurted out "OMG he is having an affair" not realizing she was standing behind me. I went into shock immediately, so when I heard a voice ask "who?" I answered "my husband". It was such an odd answer, but I really was in such shock that I didn't think about who asked or why they were asking. If I had realized it was her I would have said nothing and changed the subject.

Later we sat her down and talked to her. She sobbed and asked if we were getting a divorce. We promised her we were staying together. She heard me crying at times, even though I tried very hard to keep her from it. We did most of our talking to each other when she was at school. Then I noticed a bald spot on her head, she was pulling out her hair. She had them all over her head. Her nerves were shot. This was about 2 months after d-day and my H was in the fog for about 6 weeks after I found out (I found this out months later).

He ended up sitting her down, telling her what he did wrong, how bad it was and how very embarrassed and ashamed he was by his behavior. He told her he loved me, her and the boys and would never do anything stupid like that again and he and I were staying married.

My point in sharing this with you is to show how bad this effects the kids. She has always been Daddy's girl and to have her perfect (in her eyes) Daddy fall from grace was horrible for her. She is doing much better now, but if she had not shown improvement I was getting ready to get her into therapy. So please watch your daughter for any changes in her behavior.

Oh believe me, I have been watching her like a hawk, some of the things she says worries me. So I have been vigilent in talking to her alot lately. I told her to talk to daddy, when they are alone thinking maybe they can get all her questions squared away, but so far she has not. I need to make sure my hubby, asks her if she has any questions that she wants to ask him or talk about so she knows she can open up to him. She opens up to me, but I think she is afraid to with him. I guess its a no trust thing. I definately will watch her. thank you for sharing. (((halfunit)))

Hi NW,

I just wanted to let you know that you have been on my mind all morning. I hope you are doing better, even if it is only slightly better. You have a lot to deal with and I know it cannot be easy. I remember finding another infidelity site soon after I found out about the A and it felt great knowing I was no longer alone, but had someplace to go where people could relate to what I was going through.

Years ago a friend of mine's husband had an A, even though I was sympathetic to her, I really had no idea the pain she was going through. I do not think you can understand this until you have it happen to you and then you have a whole new perspective about it. That is why these sites (especially this one) are so helpful. There are many sites, but I believe this one is the only one that truly tries to help you heal your marraige and yourself. So I am glad you are here, because you will get the help and advise you need.

When you get a chance post and let me know you are OK and how things are going. I just wanted you to know I am still praying for you.

Halfunit, you must have been feeling my pain. Had a REALLY bad day today. Had a TOTAL meltdown at lunch today, had to come back to work late because I just couldnt pull myself together. I called my WH in a screaming fit, and then hung up on him. Then wouldnt answer the phone when he called back because I was in the parking lot at work and was afraid someone would see me loosing it. Then went to a remote area, and checked my voicemail to hear my WH telling me he was on the way home to get his things, and leave, he states he couldnt take it anymore and I deserved better. I FLIPPED OUT!!! I called him screaming and sobbing, and even broke the vent on the dash of my van from banging on it. I am soo outta control. He ended up comming to me and got in the van and held me while I cried for like 20 minutes, he said he is going to stay and wont leave, but Now I am TERRIFIED that I will drive him away. I just cant help it, I am sooooo hurt and angry. I have rage inside me that I never knew or imagined I could even possess. I have an appointment to see a psychiatrist on the 15th of June. I am most certain he will want to put me on something. I REALLY REALLY want to make this work. I WANT TO HAVE A BETTER MARRIAGE!!! I just feel like I cant get there, like I take 2 steps forward then 5 steps back. I dont know what else to do. I am losing my mind COMPLETELY. I feel awful, like I am an awful mom, cuz I just come home and go right to bed, dont want to do anything. Cant even fake a smile anymore for my daughter. Hell its all I can do to not cry around her. I see all these people on here who have worked through this, and then I think to myself....whats wrong with me, why cant I do this. My WH is breaking his neck to do what he is supposed to even more then he is supposed to, and While I DO see this, I am still sooooooooooo paranoid and terrified. Its like I feel if I get comfortable, he will slide right back in to his behavior. He has started going to church again, and even when to the chaplain at his work, (all on his own) he is praying at night, and making us sit at the table for dinner again..(we havent done that in years, usually eat on tv trays in living room) If he is doing all these things, why cant I accept it? He is doing so much more then most WH that I see on alot of these threads, what is my problem??

Ok, have to vent, (once again) here goes. Had a very tearful night, then WH and I had a heartfelt talk this morning, he was hugging me, and rubbing my back, trying to make me feel better. Get up to feed baby, and THEN.....He asked me if I cared if he masterbates....REALLY, NO I MEAN IT...REALLY??? I have been sobbing uncontrollably for 2 days now, and had AO, and sobbing back and fourth and he wants to know if I care.!? WHAT? ARE YOU KIDDING ME.>?? I understand that I am not having sex with him, bearly letting him hug me most days, I DO. I understand that he is getting NO affection from me. I GET THAT. However, is it too much to ask that he act on those urges at more appropriate times??? Why do my feelings ALWAYS ALWAYS come 2nd to his sex drive. I AM SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO SICK OF THIS!! I mean if he cant contol himself in an appropriate manner at home how am I EVER supposed to believe he can do it when I am not around???????????????? I am so sick of this behavior from him. I feel like all I am to him is mother of his children and a sex toy. He makes me feel like nothing else about me is important, all he cares about is sex, sex and more sex. Why cant we go just a week without him groping me, making crude sexual comments, or asking me "if I am ok" with him "doing the deed"??? Is he really THAT shallow??? I have so much to give and I feel like none of it matters to him if it doesnt have to do with my body and sex. arrrghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh . Am I asking too much, is this hopeless???

Removed

HalfUnit and navewife,

You should both be wary about writing to each other off-board. You are both very new here, and you will receive MarriageBuilders advice if you post here. You should not exchange private information by email with people you barely know, for your own security and privacy.

((((navewife)))))

His behavior is that of a sex addict and Dr Harley has found that the addiction(any addiction) needs to be dealt with before MB will work. I know that's disheartening, but you're seeing why that is true. When things get rough, he's running to his drug of choice. He needs serious help for this, and now.

I can't imagine how I would have felt if my FWH had done that. I'm blown away by it. I'm so sorry. Maybe we could get a male's perspective on this because to me it's beyond understanding how he felt a need to do THAT after witnessing so much of your pain. uuuugggh...again he put his need to feel better above yours.

((((((((navewife)))))))

I completely agree. I thought that's what it sounded like, too. He's still running right back to his drug of choice to ease the anxiety.

Exactly what help is he getting / are you both getting for his SA? Do you have real-life counselors? Is he at Recovery Nation?

You will have to deal with the sex addiction before you can deal with repairing the marriage. That's why things aren't getting any better.

navewife, did you see the series on Celebrity Sex Addiction with Dr. Drew? It was on VH1. You can go to the VH1 website and watch the whole series - it was only about six or eight parts - and see how Dr. Drew and his facility dealt with sex addicts.

I do remember these points:

1) Dr. Drew feels that SA has its roots in a chaotic and neglectful upbringing. Outright abuse can be a part of it, but not always.

2) Getting to sexual sobriety does involve several weeks of abstinence, including abstinence from masturbation.

3) Addicts have to re-think how they see and relate to other people, and learn to relate to them as fellow human beings instead of as masturbatory objects.

4) Addicts of all kinds have very poor boundaries and sex addicts especially must learn to have healthy boundaries with others.

So: What exactly is being done to treat his SA? And have you spoken to your doctor about possibly going on antidepressants for a while, to get through the worst of this?

Hey, mulan, YES, we are both in counseling both together and individually. He has very loving family, and no where near neglected. In fact, his mother doted over him excessivly. I do feel that he doesnt see me as anything other then the mother of his children and a sex object. I have an appointment to see a Psychiatrist June 15th, just trying to keep it together till then. HE HAS THE NERVE TO COMPLAIN THAT HE IS PUTTING EVERYTHING IN AND GETTING NOTHING OUT!!! MAKES ME SOOO ANGRY, THAT IS WHAT I HAVE DONE ALL OF OUR MARRIED LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I ALWAYS put my hopes,dreams and aspirations aside, to make him happy. Even when he was being the biggest "butt" in the world, I would justify to myself, well at least he still loves me even though I am not skinny, and at least he is faithful. BOY WAS I A FOOL!! So to hear him demand that he gets to be frustrated that he is giving and getting NOTHING, PISSES ME OFF TO KNOW END!!!!!!! So ok, we obviously need to get this sex addict thing under control. Where does that leave me??? I cant do ANYTHING about that, only he can. I already feel so out of control. If I cant fix my marriage till that happens, then what am I supposed to be doing??? I am losing faith, losing hope that we can do this. If I have to wait for him not to be an addict anymore, then I think I am fighting a losing battle. When do I know it is pointless???

Well, yes, you DO have to wait until he is no longer an addict before you can concentrate on saving your marriage. Dr. Harley will tell you that MB solutions do not work when there is any kind of addiction present.

But I'm not sure why that's a losing battle. By "wait" I don't mean "sit around and wait for him to figure it out." He sounds to me like the typical addict who wants to direct his own recovery, which means of course that nothing will change.

He needs very serious help *from professionals* to deal with this. He cannot direct his own recovery, though it sure sounds like that's what he's trying to do. But that's just typical addict blindness and selfishness and fear of being without their drug.

But forget him for a minute. June 15th is waaaaaaayyyyyyyy too long for you to go in the state you are in and with a new baby to boot.

navewife, you should get yourself to your MD or the the emergency room TODAY. Tell them what's going on and see what antidepressants they can start you on (make sure, of course, that they know you have a young baby.)

Since ADs take a few weeks to kick in, the docs can *probably* give you something like Ativan to calm the anxiety. Ativan works right away, like within 30-60 minutes.

You cannot do this alone any more than he can. He needs professional help to deal with his addiction, and YOU need professional help to deal with the pain.

Again: Stop trying to tough this out alone. It's not helping either one of you. Get to your doctor or go to the emergency room TODAY and let them help you.

Nave,

Listen you have a lot going on. From what I understand from all my reading and research, this is one of the worse things a person can go through. On top of that you recently had a baby which has your hormones so out of whack, heck for all you know you could also be suffering from postpartum depression. It is no wonder you are breaking down and crying like this. Please cut yourself some slack.

This is a very long and painful road you are traveling down. I think you are what 4 months out from d-day VS my 10 months out. I can tell you that those 6 months make a huge difference. I probably would be a whole lot better if I had stayed on this site during that 6 months, but I got scared. I actually was on another site as well, that site seemed more in tune with holding on to the anger, where here the focus is on healing and saving your marriage. On the other site the OW and her H both joined, it was horrible to read what her side was even though I knew it was a lie because I read her e-mails to my H, but because her H was on there she spun a whole fantasy making herself out to be a victim. So I went back to try healing on my own. It did not work, joining back here was the best thing I ever did.

So stay here, continue to post and READ. I cannot stress how much that will help you to heal. Listen to what the veterans on here say, they know what they are talking about.

I would NEVER give anyone my personal info. That was NOT why I wanted to have her contact me off list. I wanted to share something personal that a dear friend went through and though my friend would not mind me sharing with NW, I do not feel comfy with doing so on the board in case someone on here would recognize anything about her story. That would not be right. The e-mail I set up has nothing about me on it. Sadly I learned the hard way when I joined the other site first time out under the name I always use and the OW and her H joined the same site as well. Made it horrible for me. This time around I used the weirdest name I could.

I also would not feel comfy in giving advise that I did not feel was in MB guidelines and those I would do on the boards in case I needed to be corrected.

I just wanted to share a story that might make her feel not so alone in her unique situation, that was all. Seems the rest of us are all dealing with A where our SO cheated with someone of the same sex as us, not with both. I know she feels like she is in a world all her own.

HU, you are very new here. It is safer for navewife for you to post your advice here, where it can be seen. This isn't meant as an insult to you, but it is not wise for you to give a poster off-board advice when you came here only last week.

If that precludes you telling her about your friends experience, then so be it. She will get the MB advice that she sought when she came here by posting HERE.

Navewife.....I recently called the MB radio program and spoke directly to Dr.H and his wife to get their help insight advice...I would suggest you do the same...it is free...the show will be on soon...about 1hr please call right at the top of the hour so you get on the show....they also send you free books and stuff for calling.

I would love to hear Dr.H address your situation to you over the radio....I think he could direct you and help you...it won't be alot different than what we all have said here but truly sometimes we need to hear it from the horses mouth so to speak !

I felt validation after speaking to them.....I have a plan now....and am confident that I can go forward based on that even if it's not what I wanted or what I thought my marriage would be like....I won't die I can make it....it will be tough but I can do it and so can you....my heart just breaks for you....everytime I read your posts...I can't imagine the suffering you are going thur....please call the show today and talk to them.

From my experience it may be longer.

If you look at the release of sex as his drug, like alcohol or a crack pipe it makes quite a bit of sense when there is overwhelming feelings for him his inclination is act out, to get his fix.

This is an addiction fraught with denial and delusion...and I dare say, in many other chemical addictions there is a sex addiction underneath.

BUT, your recovery from living under and in this addictive household does NOT depend on your H getting better. It helps, but you CAN get better even if he doesn't.

You will stay in the addictive cycle unless you get help to. You are too busy to seek an al-anon or COSA meeting, but you will have a hard time living with someone in and out of stages of recovery unless you do.

In my experience, meetings have been more helpful to me than even individual counseling. Please reconsider the time you have available. You are worth it.

I just decided I was tired of driving myself crazy...

Your job is to concentrate on healing yourself and taking care of your babies. To help you get back in control you can establish your boundaries. Actually write them down. What will you not live with? What are the deal breakers? What will you do if he fails to protect you and your M again?

Make them clear in your mind. Write them down and share them with him. It is now HIS job to not overstep these boundaries. And it's your job to maintain them. Healthy boundaries protect us.

I also think it would be a great idea for you to get on the Harleys radio show. I hope you do.

I have set the boundries, its the maintaining the boundries that are getting to me. The paraniod thoughts of having to watch his every move. Im getting soo soo tired. Beat down from it. I feel like my life has no meaning anymore. I feel VERY consumed by all this. I feel like all my life and marriage consists of is taking care of the kids, and making sure he isnt cheating. I cant stand this, could this be a sign that its not going to work??? My life used to be so full, I loved my kids, my husband, my marriage, and used to take such pride in doing the things I had to show them that. However, now. All those things are a job. I love my kids, I DO, but I find myself just doing things I have to just to get through till bedtime, everyday. The rest of my life is consumed with fighting the mind movies,trying to control my anger, checking the gps every 15 min. checking, emails, phonebills, researching the OW, who she is, who her friends are, where she works, ect...Doing reasearch on investigating. People seach sites, to investigate if he has other accounts I dont know of. Checking prices of PI, and Lawyers, investigating my rights should I need to leave, stashing $$ to make an escape plan, should he be the dissapointment he has shown himself to be. All of this consumes me. There is no room for friends, family, myself, or even planning a future. I used to ALWAYS look soooo far ahead, I used to be able to see the future so clear, Now I see NOTHING, nothing but a life sentence of worry, and wonder. I used to be soooooooooooooooo PROUD of my husband, his service, his "loyalty" to me, and now....well frankly I dont think it will be possible to EVER feel pride with him again. Even if we work this out and I stay and things get better, HOW,will I EVER be able to sit back and reflect or even say to anyone.."I HAVE THE BEST HUSBAND EVER" I dont think I will EVER feel that way. I used to alway brag that way, used to always get soooooooooooooo many compliments from EVERYONE, boy your really lucky, he is soooooo good to you , you guys have such a good marriage, I hope I can have what you guys have, ect....Now I still have to hear those things from people I havent told, and its killing me, because, when they speak all I hear is my own voice in my head saying.."if you only knew " . I miss that pride, I miss being able to say , I have the BEST hubby. How can I remain a part of a marriage that I am ashamed of. One that even if he does change, everyone..including myself will always wonder what we dont know. Even if he was faithful for the rest of his days, I think I will ALWAYS doubt it, I will ALWAYS wonder if I missed something, if I am being stupid for staying. Again, you say about boundries and maintaining them, I have done that, IT CONSUMES MY LIFE!! That is my problem, I cant see LIFE at all ALL I SEE ARE THE BOUNDRIES,AND HOW TO POLICE THEM, AND WHAT AM I GOING TO DO WHEN...(AND YES I SAY WHEN) HE FALLS AND STEPS OVER THEM. I just cant figure out how I am going to be in this marriage, and find a LIFE to ENJOY again. The life I have now just is sooo meaningless. I know it sounds pathetic, but it is how I feel.

You are both trying to blast through this and find some way to make it all go away NOW and be all better NOW.

That's not going to happen. It's not how these things work. Even if you got divorced tomorrow and never saw him again, you would have much pain to work through and much healing to come.

The bottom line of what we have been telling you:

1) You need to get to a doc TODAY to get something to take the edge off the pain so you can function. We've all been there and sometimes that's what you have to do. Otherwise you are just going to keep spiraling down, and how does that help your children?

2) He needs to get serious about being treated for his addiction - whatever that takes. He SAYS he'll do that, but then is resistant to actually DOING it.

That's the best we have for you. I think those two things would do a lot to make your lives somewhat easier.

This is not something you can just tough out alone - especially with two young children in the picture. Please stop trying to do that. You are only making things worse for everyone in your home.

I completely understand your need to continue to snoop. I was consumed by it for quite sometime. I also understand the lack of joy in your life and how everything feels like just a chore. There's nothing abnormal with all that. It WILL get better with time.

Maybe to help ease your anxiety level, how about you have him take a polygraph now and then take one in say six months time? And even periodically after that. Right off the bat it would give you all the info you need now and it would help you in the event that he faulters in the future. This way you can still protect yourself without being consumed with the daily craziness of snooping. Cause it WILL drive you insane!! You're feeling it already. I don't blame you at all, I just know that you can't keep it up.

I can't promise that you will feel as you once did even if he does change into a respectable H. I don't and I don't think you will either. But, no matter which way this ends, YOU will recover. YOU will find peace and joy again. Get some meds now. Help yourself get through the worst of this.


((((((navewife)))))

Thanks guys for your advice, unfortunatly I cant go right now to the doc. I have had to already make special arrangements with my employer to come in late every tues so I can go to counseling. I have NO sick or vacation time for the rest of the year from being on maternity so asking off is like asking my boss to cut her own arm off. I have to make any doc appts on tues mornings when my counseling is so I dont have to take any other time off. They are talking about downsizing, so I am really trying hard to not rock the boat there. Also it doenst help having to have military healthcare. Its VERY hard to get an appointment much less actually ask for a certain day and time, so June 15th was the first I could get. I am still not totally sold on the drugs thing, but I am willing to see another doc to get his opinion, since my hubby and I go to the same counselor, I want to see what someone out of the loop has to say. My husband and I were discussing a volunteer topic that was brought up on his thread, but we all do girlscouts with my daughter . We go as a family and stay for all the meetings, help the leader with the troop, go on the trips as a family, do food drives, camping, sent cookies to troops overseas, and planted a garden to earn patches. I think we get alot out of doing girlscouting stuff with our daughter, for one we spend time with her, and also get to do different volunteer things all the time for people in need. My husband has devestated me from what he has done, and yes he has had slip ups with some dumb [censored] things he has done or said. However, that being said, I DO see he is trying. He may be failing alot, but at least he is trying which is more then I can say for some WH that I have seen on this site. I have to give him that I guess. As for his addiction....YES he is doing it. He is going to his counselor, NEVER misses a session, and the meeting thing really has been alot of my fault lately, he will tell me he has a meeting, but then I will have him doing this and that around the house, I may get home late from work, and he will have the kids picked up already, and dinner and homework started and when I get home, I am tired, and usually sad, because being in the car by myself is when my mind races alot. So sometimes I get home tired, sad, angry..ect and then I have to come home and fake some sort of smile for my daughter, then I have to figure out where he is in the nightime routine of things, (has homework been done, table set, laundry done or need put away , baby fed,changed, ect... by the time that all happens sometimes its 700 which is when the meeting starts and it is 20 min away from our house. He is not making excuses, we have a very busy life, and right now I am just not able to keep up with the kids and the house like I used to. I am emotionally drained..I have hardly the desire to do what I am supposed to , I come so close to comming home sometimes and walking to the bedroom and just climbing in. Do you know what stops me....my husband. He always gives me a few min to get in and have a few min to myself, but then he will come back and ask about something so as to make me get up and involved. He is trying hard not to let me slip into a deeper depression then I am already in. I am glad he cares enough to do that. Glad he doesnt hold it against me . Glad he is trying to get us to work as a team. I know if we work as a team again we can make this work, but I am so depressed, I just am having a hard time pitiching in. I cant seem to pull it together. I KNOW THIS WILL TAKE A LONG TIME, I am NOT expecting it to happen NOW, I KNOW THIS WILL BE A LOOOONG PROCESS, that being said, I am trying to figure things out for myself. If I can survive that lenghthy process. Like I said, I really am fixated on knowing if I will EVER reach a point when I am not CONSUMED with what he has done. If I will ever find true joy again, cuz right now everything about me is fake. I smile to put on an appearance and not seem broken. I try to be the happy mommy, my daughter has always known, The only one who sees my true raw emotion is my WH and sometimes, I work hard to keep that at bay, so as not to have an AO. I really do appreciate all your advice, I may not listen to do what I am supposed to all the time, but I do take it in, I am paying attention, I just dont have much in me to always follow advice. Just keeping up with day to day life, is hard for me right now. But please know I am taking it all in so I can eventually use it when I am ready

((((((navewife)))))

This is completely up to you.

For years I was under the assumptions that if I caught him, if I let him know every time he lied or cheated, then he wouldn't do it any longer. That I could control this situation if I just stayed on guard. And this is true for the short term, for someone who has only cheated once or twice...but does NOT work in an addiction such as this.

Think of his obsession/sexualized behavior as his alcohol. Does finding it, pouring it out, or yelling at him about it make him stop? NO! What it does is spin YOUR life out of control. It will consume your life and make the addiction YOUR problem more than it is HIS problem.

I got to the point where I just stopped snooping. He was going to, or not, do it whether I snooped or not. He would just hide it better. And it was making me crazy and wasting my time. I now live my life FOR ME, not for his addiction...

It took me a while to get here. I had to see my part in this addictive cycle. That I had a part I was playing, and really, the snooping became part of his excitement of the addiction.

This is different, like I said before, from someone who cheats once or twice...this is an ongoing game/addiction a couple engages in. What was hard for me to realize was...he was my addiction... I began to disengage and protect myself from his addiction.

navewife, emergency rooms are open 24/7 and you do not need an appointment. They will take care of you and refer you to someone long-term. You will be worth nothing to your job or your family if you do not do something to ease your anxiety and suffering.


Boy, I can relate to that. I thought XWH would care enough that he would not want to wreck what we had - but addicts just don't care. They only get sneakier and, in some cases, nastier.

The point is: You've got to put the burden squarely on naveguy to clean up this mess. Frantically trying to stay one step ahead of him will only finish driving you crazy, and, as StillHere said, will only end in a sick game of cat-and-mouse betwen you and an addict.

And it doesn't work anyway.

Dump that load right at his feet and tell HIM to do the heavy lifting. You cannot do it for him. Look how well that's worked so far.

navewife,
I know you have little time to read alot of this forum, but I recommend going over to the Recovery forum and reading DancesWithGoats thread. Her story is mindboggling. She came here last year after finding out her H was a serial cheater who cheated their ENTIRE 30 yr M with 10s(100s?) of prostitutes, plus an EA/PA for 6 yrs with the same OW. He was also here as GreenMile. They've been off the forum for some time to try to R. He ended up hospitalized from a breakdown. In any case, she has returned. She has been through the gamut as much as anyone I've ever seen here. So if you have a chance...

Hope your day has been better.

Ok, I know and appreciate your concern, However, I am well aware of ER hours and I dont want to go there. I have dealt with this for 4 months now, and so the way I feel is that 3 weeks isnt that long. Im going to wait it out. Yeah, I know its not pretty, Im struggling, but this is what I choose to do. I have NO control over anything else in my life, I cant surrender control so I can go to the ER. I want to be in charge of my own care, but PLEASE know that I DO appreciate your concern and advise. Im not like most people. I have had a very hard life. Abusive childhood, ect...I have always depended on myself and the thought of letting ANYONE make desicions on what happens to me terrifies me. I am going to counseling, and I will be seeing the doc soon enough. I will get it done. As for naveguy, I HAVE put the burden on him. I have already told him I have nothing to give him. I have also told him that I cant even give him guarantees, that 5 years from now I may get tired of fighting the worry and wonder and leave anyway. I love him, but I wont settle. I am just trying to take my time to decided and make sure I am making the right choice. I dont want to leave then regret it, I have the kids to think about, and I refuse to pull them back and fourth. He knows and if FULLY aware of my boundries, and my requirements for him to stay. I have told him to think hard and just leave if he cant deal with any of my demands, but he is still here and working hard. I guess the real answer will lye with how long he can be th is way. Like I said, I am working on the exit strategy, but hoping I wont have to use it, at least I know its there if I need it. Thanks all of you for your thoughts and hugs,Going to TRY to go to sleep now, I am exausted from not sleeping well. Will check in tomorrow

Just dropping in to say hi, not much better, but REALLY busy lately. Having hard time juggling home and work. Going home this weekend to visit family, and I am VERY nervous. Since my family doesnt know and I will have to play the part of happy couple when we are around my family. His family knows, so at least I wont have to pretend when we are there. Just still sick thinking about having to try to fool my parents and family this weekend. NG is still doing everything he can think of to help me but I still cant be happy about any of it, I am numb.:*(

You are very busy and reeling from his abuse. Wny not be thoughtful and CANCEL THE TRIP. You probably could stay home and catch up on stuff instead of a stressful trip where you have to act all fakey.

No cant do that to my daughter, she is very excited about seeing the gramps, also my dad is not in good health and has just scheduled surgry for next month, I am feeling I need to go and find out exactly whats up and give my sister a break. I only will be around my family on saturday during the day only. We have to stay with his parents, because my parents live in a hotel due to a housefire that happend in january. construction hasnt been completed on my parents house yet. So I will only have to fake it during the day saturday, and we have a birthday party to attend, so there will be lots of kids to occupy our time and distract. If we repair this marriage...then I dont want my family to EVER know. My family is NOT the type to forgive, and they will treat him like a parriah if they know what he did. I dont think that will be good support for us to recover. Yes, its very painful to hear the family and friends that dont know still live in the whole, you guys are the best couple phase, but this is what I choose. If I cant live with it, then I will cross that bridge when I get there, but for now, I just cant go there. I am dealing with my own emotions, I cant deal with my families...and trust me, my family is very drama driven and needy, I just cant do it right now. My H and I are going on a motorcycle ride in DC on sunday, so I guess that will count as our UA time. I am just nervouse that I ruin it, cuz I still am not affectionate with him. He kisses or hugs me and I basically just let him, but dont really recpiricate. How can UA time be effective if I am not really into it? I mean I will give it to him, he is really trying, but I just dont think I am at a place where I can just be with him alone and love on him, or even be happy while we are together, I spend most of the UA time just trying to be nice and not make jabs at him or be mean to him. I know I am angry and it will take a long time but is there anything I can do to get the affection back. I love him, but I am not sure if I am still in love with the man I thought I married, or if I love the person I am married to>? Still feel like I am married to a stranger, one I am just getting to know, and not trust yet. Its weird

It may take you 5 years to even begin to trust him. If you ever do again.

navewife,
Early in my R when I was trying to overcome those terrible feelings, I would try hard not to think about my FWH as he was during the time of his A. I tried to think about him at that moment and who he was right then. He was being kind and generous, and I actually felt sorry for him at that point. I saw his remorse and how he was broken. I also tried hard to be nice back. My goal was a R M so I looked for that as my guide. If you can be nice, it'll actually help YOU feel better. At least it did for me. My FWH always commented how he was amazed at how well I did treat him and I believe he fell in love with me all over again because of my behavior during the worst time of my life.

One step at a time. Try to be kind, that's all. You don't have to be lovey dovey. And I understand about not telling your family. Most of mine do not know even now.

In 3 weeks when your load eases a bit, I would suggest doing some brainstorming about ways you can trim your life down to the bare essentials so you're not as stressed from something you *can* control.

Whether it's girl scouts, or whatever, either find a way to have the activities take place in a way that's not so draining for you, or cut them out completely.

You're having such a hard time, and filling every spare second with activities, no matter how worthwhile, is not going to help in the long run.

Well, Neak, In a few weeks a lot of things should be calming down. We go to court next week to finalize our bankrupcy, so that will be one black cloud not hanging so heavy,(Im so worried about the what if's) just be glad when that is done. Then school and scouts will be done for the summer, so that will be more stress lifted, no homework,scout meetings teacher confrences ect..I am hoping summer will bring me a second wind so to speak. We had a yardsale last weekend, and took everything we didnt sell to the salvation army, and a few weeks before that we cleaned our office and took a bunch of stuff to shred. I am trying to go through the house and do the projects that I could never get to on my own because of having to do it all without any help from him. He is pitching in at home, and I am taking full advantage of that. I need some control and order in my life, and I think "cleaning house" is a good way to start that. I really want to start scrapbooks for the kids, but trying to get other projects done first. I like being busy. Being idle and quiet gets me on edge, I have been doing everything so long now, that I dont know how to relax, its just how I have programed myself I guess. Its going to take some time for me to find out how to relax again. Thanks for all your advice once again. I am truely blessed to have found this site and all you wonderful people.

Relaxing is easy to get used to - just start small. Maybe 5-10 minutes at a stretch. When you get that down, try increasing it at 5-minute intervals till you can do about a half hour at a stretch without breaking a sweat.

Try all different kinds of relaxing things - "you" time like tea, hot baths, and good books, couple time (maybe playing Scrabble or Uno - something where you can laugh and joke together without feeling pressured by being...together), a totally unstructured playtime with the kids, like running and playing Frisbee at the park.

If you fill every waking second with action, your body will become exhausted and you'll have a harder time recovering from this. The better you can become at giving your brain and body a break at least once a day, the better you'll heal.

I'm sure glad you found this place!

Well, here I am after a long weekend, and what seems like a longer week. Had to go to bankrupcy court today, so I am a little more frazzled then the norm. All went as well as can be, didnt lose house or vehicles, so I am content with that. At least that is one black cloud not over my head for now. Went on trip to see family this weekend,and did the "rolling Thunder" ride to the wall in DC this past sunday as well. We counted that as our UA time. Did ok, I guess, I tried hard not to be negative while we were together the whole day, and I guess it helped that my cousin was with us, so we had to act normal in front of him. Of course all the secret keeping must have got to me cuz on ride home monday, I let him have it again. Then this morning, he really dissapointed me once agian. Here I am tired from not sleeping good worrying about the bankrupcy hearing, and a bundle of nerves this morning, and he starts rubbing all over me, including the sweet spots, trying to pass it off as "relaxing me' Like I am too stupid to pick up that he is just feeling me up. He has been like that a few days now. constantly touching my butt, boobs, ect...It is getting so old. I am just not ready for ANYTHING sexual with him yet. The thought of sex with him just repulses me right now. I know he said that the MEN were just easier to get oral from and everything, but I believe that is TOTAL BULL!! He had OW who he texted at least 3 times a week,and she even paid for the hotel room when they had sex, so I am sure, that she would have not had a problem, helping him in that area, ease had NOTHING to do with it. Im sure it was curiosity at first, but then to do it 4 more times after that, had NOTHING to do with curiosity in my book. AT THAT POINT, HE JUST LIKED IT AND WANTED IT if you ask me. Which brings me to why I am so hard pressed to figure out how we are going to fix this. How am I supposed to put so much in to a marriage, when if he is a true addict, he will eventually fall off the wagon. I cant do it. I will NEVER do this again, if he slips, its over, forever. That being said...I know it will be a VERY VERY long time before we ever get close to trying to be happy again. Im just getting so frustrated. I cant have sex with him, I can bearly kiss him without wanting to puke. I just dont understand why everything has to revolve around sex. Why cant we focus on Our lives, jobs, friends, family, kids, ect... I dont understand why we cant fix everything else in our lives and just hang up the sex thing a few months. The way I see it, he should be more worried about damage control, and not sex. Sex is what is screwing up everything in his life, why cant he see that, and just ignore it for now, and focus on what needs focused on? I am till so negative, so hateful toward him. How can I love someone that I have so much hate for?? I know he is here and is trying, I see him trying, but right now, it doesnt make me feel secure, I prob will have to see him doing what he is doing for years before even being able to make a sigh of relief. I am sooooooo afraid to allow myself to get comfy. So scared that if I do, he will go back to doing those ugly things. I am terrified. I just dont know how I will get passed this, I am trying, but like I said, my life consists of getting through, taking care of kids, haveing to police my husbands every move. I feel like I am not living anymore, just going through the motions. I really hate this, I wish I could figure this out, I feel like I will feel like this FOREVER:(

Glad I have a place to vent here, has been helping me. Have a busy day tomorrow. Going on a trip with DD girlscout troop, going to be a hot one. Still having issues, but I feel like I am at least controling the anger better. Still having racing thoughts, and very paranoid. I really feel awful mentally. Feel like I am just going through the motions, not really enjoying life, but I figure if I just stick to at least taking care of my responsibilities, maybe the feelings and emotions will follow. I am just so numb now.

I think it takes a while to start enjoying life again. I know that doesn't sound encouraging. If you can just enjoy ONE THING during the day. Anything. Sit for a half hour and read a book, watch a movie you always wanted to see. Heck, hit a beach. If you're where I think you are there's water all around(I'm in SE VA). Just do something little that you will enjoy.

Eventually you will realize at the end of a day that there were a few minutes that things seemed almost normal. You didn't think about all of this... That's the start. As long as your WH is still here and working on himself there's hope.

One step.

Thanks Michelle, yeah, while thats not what I wanted to hear, I am glad you said it, so at least I know its "normal". for what I am going through. It is just very depressing not to "feel" anything. Going through the motions of life just plain sucks. Thanks for your kind words, and yes I am near the water, but that is a hard thing to get to when you have 2 kids and NO family nearby. I will try though

Baby steps.

I know it's extra hard while going through the bankruptcy and all. I do want to make a suggestion. Call up the counselling center, and just ask if they have any sort of assistance for people in financial hardship, and if so how much would it be for one session.

Then have a yard sale, bake sale, car wash...anything that might raise the money. Ask his parents to make up any shortfall.

At this point you both need an expert plan, and I think one session with the Harleys would accomplish more than years of counseling with just about anyone else.

I would love to do that counseling, but right now its just impossible. My van just went in shop, and now something is wrong with his vehicle too, and now that is summertime, my daycare will go up since my six year old will have to stay somewhere all day when school gets out. We are sooo super tight. Not to mention that I got written up today at my job for making misteaks in my work. I knew that I probably was because of my mental state lately. I feel like just as I feel the confidence to get up and attempt to dust myself off, I get kicked right back down. I just dont know how many more times I can get up. I am getting so tired of life, so tired of trying. My H wants me to quit my job, he said we can sell some of our vehicles, and now that the bankrupcy is over, it will be do-able but I am too scared to do that. I see that he is concerned but that just leaves me too vulnerable. I mean, if I am totally dependant on him, and he cheats again, I will truely be stuck. Not to mention, I feel like that will make him feel "entitled" to do it. Since he will be the sole provider in the house. I am going to try to stick it out but my work situation is not good, we just had a person put in their two weeks, and two others are looking for work to quit, the one girl at my job that knows my situation said I should stay because once she leaves, and the other girl leaves, the company will be in a pickle and will need me,but I just dont know. I know if I tough it out and they let me go, they will have to pay me unemployment, but I am sooo miserable. I am sooo soo depressed, I dont know if I can handle work anymore, its all I can do to get through each day without breaking down completely. I see the doc next tuesday, and maybe he will give me meds to help, but I really dont have any faith thaty will help me. I mean, they seem to do wonders for my WH but I think he has things a lot easier then me. After all I feel like he has it made. He screws up, gets to say "Im depressed" goes to get meds, and has his wife staying with him despite of his betrayal, and his only stress is to have to "stay out of trouble" and deal with his "crazy wife's tantrums" . While I have to go through everyday sick with worry, worrying that he will do this again, worrying how I will pay for a lawyer if I leave, worrying where I will live with my children and how I will be able to care for them by myself"especially in my current mental state" if he does this to me again. Worrying about never having a normal life again, always having racing thoughts, nightmares, ect... I am so overwhelmed. It seems like other people on here are yes while devestated just the same, it just seems like they are all dealing and getting through, what is wrong with me, why cant I get myself together??

You're going through something more horrible than most of us have experienced. It's God's grace that is keeping you as well as you are, and I for one am amazed at your strength.

And while there may be a few on here who were not profoundly changed by infidelity, most of us (even with less trauma than you) are very different people than we were. Almost 5 years out, for me, most of the changes are positive. A few are negative, like struggles with short-term memory and concentration, sometimes. I can compensate usually, but it used to come much easier.

You'll get there too; it will just take lots of time.

I'm not sure what to recommend on the job thing. For sure there are pros and cons either direction. If you can make it work, that would be really good. If you can only make it work by causing irreparable damage to your health, that would be bad and you shouldn't do it.

Also, I hope the phrase "crazy wife's tantrums" is yours, not his. If he said that to you, I have a 4x8 with his name on it. If you said it, I have a feather duster for you: You aren't crazy - you're traumatized. If you're still having AO's, that's something you will need to work on asap, and he needs to be very patient in the meantime.

You don't own any of his behavior. It says nothing about you, and does not make you less of a wife or less of a woman. You are you who are, and that is a very special woman.

{{{{{{{{Navewife}}}}}}}}

I have had the same experience as Neak, navewife. My timeline is about the same as hers, with D Day around 5 years ago.

I too am fundamentally changed, and most of that change is for the better. However, I too have problems with memory and concentration; it is as if normal, everyday life is somewhat trivial after the enormity of the affair, and I cannot pay quite the same attention to it that I used to.

It took me at least 3 years after D Day to feel less than mad, not constantly on the verge of a breakdown. For those years, there wasn' one minute of any day that, in my head, I wasn't dealing with the affair.

As Neak says, you will get away from where you are now, but it will take lots of time. Hugs to you, meanwhile.

Thanks guys, I really think I need to hear that stuff. I know I am not alone, but I feel that way sometimes. And oh by the way...I said the crazy wife thing, not him. (Featherdust away )lol)I had a meltdown yesturday and called my BFF (who lives 5hours from me) she knew of the affair but not the men. She was trying very hard to calm me down and just well...saying all the wrong things, (because she didnt know all of the details) I ended up breaking down and telling her everything. Her husband is friends with my H so now I am afraid I have ruined our friendship, although she did call to check on me today. I guess time will tell on that one too. We have a very strong bond as friends. Since Highschool we have been friends, and she even told me the other day she is sad because it doesnt feel like a friend going through this, it feels like a sister and brother inlaw that is going through this. She has always been a true friend, always there for me. Even being 5 hours away, we see each other about 4 times a year. Our children have grown up together ect...I am praying that this newly found information wont scare her away, I dont think it will, but you never know with this sort of thing, some people are just too closed minded, and dont allow for the possiblilities of improvement or recovery. She is being very supportive, and trying not to sway me one way or the other, she gives me things to think about to both support or disolve the marriage, all the pros and cons for each disicion. She has told me to take time, and not rush. She is a true godsend to be my friend. I am just feeling awful for telling her, cuz I know her husband is very "homophobic" and I think if she shares this info with him, he wont want to hang out and do things as families, or couples anymore. Which will intern affect my friendship with her. I guess I will just have to take a deep deep breath and try to wait to see what happens with that. Going to see the doc on the 15th, so maybe talking to a different psych doc will help as well. Thanks for all your kindness, Sometimes I forget that I am not really alone in some of this mess, while mine is more Jerry Springerish, or Twighlight Zonish, I am sure alot of the emotions are quite the same. Thanks again, Your all loved and have my prayers!!!!!!

navewife,
I also have to agree with the memory thing. Infidelity takes its toll in many ways.

I have to say that I am amazed at the BSs that carry on in their daily lives right after DDay and the next few months. I was a mess. Began having anxiety attacks. I could get like one chore done and then I'd revert back to some frantic individual. I'd cry in my closet, the shower, my car. My two kids were in grade school. Thank goodness they weren't toddlers or babies. I would never have been able to concentrate long enough to watch them. I also didn't have a job. I'm sure I would not have been able to do it. It took all my abiity to get clothes washed and dinner on the table! So navewife you are NOT alone.

Remember this is a TRAUMA. Your mind and body know that and they're acting accordingly. Be proud of yourself for getting out of bed...really.

((navewife))

Thanks Michele, I definatly know what your saying, I have a fulltime job, a six year old and now my 5 month old, I really dont know how I am doing it. Like I said before, I am just going through the motions, not thinking,or feeling, just doing. Yeah, my concentration and memory are shot, thats why I got in trouble at work, my job is very detail oriented, and there is a lot of work too, I just cant seem to handle the workload and be accurate at the same time. When I slow down to concentrate and be accurate, I am missing deadlines, and when I speed up to make my quota, I am making errors that I am getting written up for. I just cant win, now 2 people at my job put their 2 weeks in this week, so I will be getting things dumped on me again. I am very nervous, but plan on just doing my best. I figure if it doesnt work out then maybe that is the plan god has for me. Just going to give it to him, cuz I just cant do it anymore.

Got a little relief today. My Best friends husband sent me a text that she told him about my H ecounters with the men, and he send me a text just to tell me he is still going to be the same friend he always has,and he thinks of BOTH of us as family, the sister he never had and his other brother. Said that is what is allowing him to look past the man thing, and keep supporting us and helping us through. I have to say I am SUPER shocked at this. He just is not the type of person to support that kind of thing.(not that he is supporting what WH did, just that he is forgiving him enough to help us through this) It is such a HUGE weight off my chest that I dont have to hide it from them anymore. I still wont tell any of my family about ANY of the affairs or the men, Like I said before, my family are a different breed, it just wouldnt work, and I would be like the lepper if I stayed with my hubby. Would not get support. But now that someone else besides WH family knows, its nice cause I really feel like my friend is there for me. I mean inlaws love me like one of their own, but just not the same, because in the end, WH is their priority. I am still very angry, and confused but havent given up totally yet. Praying everyday for GOD to give me the strength to get through this, and at least have somewhat of a happy life at somepoint, although, I really dont ever see being truly happy ever again.

I can't imagine how hard this is for you - you're doing good, sweetie. And what good news about the friends!

Yes, it was a relief to have my best friends stick by me even with this horrible truth. She is having a hard time with it though. She said that now that she knows, she cant help but think that he is in some kind of denial, and at some point in the future, he will be faced with the same urges and as soon as we get in a rut again, she is afraid he will do this again. She is also having problems feeling that I have to wait almost my whole life to be happy. She thinks I deserve to be happy, and thinks its not fair for me to have to take this leap of faith, when my faith has been shattered so bad. Dont get me wrong, she is supporting any desicion I decied to go with, and she really wants to see us make it through this. She just doesnt really see how. Like she said, If his biggest emotional need is SF and I cant give him that, or be fully intament with him again, then she thinks it wont work. I am almost afraid she is right. I am having the worst time trying to suck it up and be just the least bit intimate. He is always trying to kiss me passionately lately, and well....I just cant sometimes. I try to reciprocate, then all I see is "where his mouth has been" it makes me phisically sick. I try to be nice and just turn my head, or something, but he totally smothers me, wrapping his arms around me and trying to force the kiss. Sometimes I just want to explode in an AO and tell him everything I am thinking right that second, but then I think that I need to control that part, so I just bottle it up. I even tried to have Sex with him recently, and made him wear a condom because I am TERRIFIED he will go back to his deceptive and devious ways, and give me a STD, Im afraid I will always want him to wear a condom, because of that fear. I really want us to work, ( I thought) we had such a connection. We still finish each others sentences, but things are different for me now. I dont see him the same, he is a stranger, and a scarry one at that. I dont feel safe with him anymore. I mean when your married your supposed to feel like that person would die for you. I think about how if I got really sick or god forbid...pregnant again, and how I am sure if I was down and out, and not able to keep checking on him he would cheat again, I feel like if the opportunity presents itself he probably wont be able to stop. He of course swears he is done, but I really dont trust that AT ALL. I see all these posts on this site about how recovered people make it through, and say its better then ever, I just cant picture how that is possible. How can it EVER be better, when you cant trust. I mean for me at least, no matter how transparent WS is, I will always, question how he can get around looking that way. Then there is counseling. Does it really work??? I have been doing the counseling, and just started meds this week. The meds make me feel HORRIBLE. The side effects are awful, I know my body has to "get used to them" but if after a month I am feeling like this, I am not taking them anymore, it is not worth feeling like this. Sorry I am ranting and raving, I have just been bottling up a lot of things lately and had to unload. I do love my husband, I just really need help decyphering how to do this . I am really really lost. I just need to know that I am not being stupid for staying and trying to work this out. Is this really going to be worth it, or am I just wasting my time?? Is it really possible for a sex addict to quit cold turkey???? Or am I being nieve to believe that. Thanks for letting me vent. hugs to all of you

You can tell him what you are feeling, just don't do it yelling and screaming. When moments like this occur you can tell him the truth. "When you do that I can't help but think about this". He's going to have to get used to you triggering like that because it will happen alot at first and he needs to know where your head is. He needs to know WHY you have pulled away. That's where we BSs need to be open and honest. Don't bottle it up. It's normal to walk on egg shells for awhile, but in the end you have to let him know how you feel and why. As long as you do it CALMLY.

Sorry about your meds. If they don't make you feel better than there is no reason to take them IMHO.

As far as R goes. I too feel that my M is better. I'm not sure that I am better but my M is. Do I trust him? Most of the time, yes. I know that HE knows that one more time would be a deal breaker. So the pressure is off of me to watch over him. I believe that my gut would tell me, like it did the first time. It's all on HIM to manage his boundaries, not me.

As long as your WH remains transparent and working the program trust will come back slowly. You won't see it coming.

Still here, still trying to get my barings. Still having HUGE problems with intamacy. Starting to wonder if I will ever be attracted to him again. We have only had sex like once a month since Dday, and each time is the same....it feels dirty, and discusting. I dont have any attraction to him AT ALL. I am soo worried that I will never feel that attraction I once had for him. I used to have him on the highest pedestal. I used to be so attracted to him, not only physically, but his "personality" also was attractive to me. I guess I was in a "fairytale" world. I see him in a whole new UGLY light now, and it seems like I cant get it back. Since on the meds, I still have racing thoughts, still feel the same as I did, the only difference is I guess I control my AO and temper better, but the feelings are all still there. It pisses me off that he acts like we are all better now, and when I am having a particularly bad day, he has the nerve to ask if I took my meds, like I am not supposed to get mad, and supposed to be "over it" or something. I am sick to my stomach still with worry. So So afraid he is going to do this again, especially since sex is almost non existent right now with us. I REFUSE TO DO IT JUST TO "KEEP HIM" I have already made it clear, that if he wants to be here, then he will have to focus on all other aspects of our relationship, Sex will be on the backburner for a looooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnnnggggggggggggg time, and if he cant deal then he needs to let me know now so I dont waste my time. He swears he wants to be here, and he is doing things to try to show me that, but I just cant find the trust. I know it will take years, and all that yadda yadda, but is that REALLY possible, I mean , I really dont think I will EVER trust again, I am not sure I can live this way forever. I want things to be easy, like when we met. I dont know if I want to spend the rest of my life wondering what I dont know, what I am missing, if I will get a disease. I used to think to myself, I dont know what he sees in me, but I am glad he loves me so much to put me first and love me so much. Now all I think is god, I am so awful he had to go to MEN and FAT chicks to get off. That is another reason I dont want to have sex, he discusts me that his mouth was where it was with sooo many MEN and also I feel so unatractive and feel like I must be an awful lover for him to have to resort to MEN and FAT chicks to get off. I know what you all will say. I know you will say its not me its him, and all that, but I just cant help how I feel, your mind and your feelings are on two different circuts. I believe if I were not to have feelings and a heart, that I would follow my mind and leave him immediately, but then my feelings and heart get in the way of actually doing it. I want so bad to believe that he has just made a horrible misteak and now realizes what he could lose and doesnt want to lose it (just like in the movies) but then my realistic side kicks in. I mean, of course he wants us to stay, we have 2 kids and NO money, and he is in the military, so I would take the kids and move back home, which is in another state, so why would he want all of that to happen, he will have child support, and be far from the kids, and have to live in the barracks. Why would he want that when he could stay in his comfy home, and have his kids, and me at home, and go on with his happy life. NO consequences. Then when things cool down, he could just figure out how to outsmart me and do it again. I guess my main point is if he is really a sex addict, then I really cant see him not falling off the wagon. all addicts fall, and I refuse to go through this again. I feel like me having issues with sex is just going to drive him to either cheat or leave, so why bother. Why not just get it over now. Why am I torturing myself. Will I ever get the attraction back ?? Is it really possible??? Thanks for letting me vent!!!!!!!!

Would you consider emailing Joyce Harley about your present situation? If you do she is awesome about emailing you right back and Dr.Harley himself also responds...you don't have to talk on the show either...but they will give you some answers about your "intense feelings/reactions".

Dr.Harley always says it is much harder to change a persons reactions then it is to change behavior....and I see this in your post...your reactions are intense and your H is the trigger....everytime you even look at him your triggering due to the horrible sex acts with men he participated in.

I don't know IF it's possible for you to change your response to him....it may NOT BE....but getting Dr.Harleys input on that would be great for you....it's free...won't cost you a dime...just type up a email like your post here...he's seen it all and dealt with it all...he can at least give you direction and offer qualified advice...please do this.

It's Jharley@marriagebuilders.com

I see your points also...if you simply can't get past it all then why torture yourself doing this...living this way...it's okay if you can't make it navewife...some things in life just aren't gonna turn out the way we want them to.

Hope I haven't offended you....I seriously hope you email them...they really can offer you sound advice.

You'll have a lot of healing to do no matter whether you stay or go. If the wounds he inflicted on you would magically go away if you didn't see him any more, believe me that's what I'd be recommending.

Even if you go through all this and your M ultimately fails, it's ok. In the process of trying to save your M, regardless of the outcome, you're healing and growing stronger. No matter what, this isn't wasted time.

God has a plan for you, and by being willing to suffer as you have been to give your WH a chance which he might or might not take advantage of, you're a walking example of grace.

God will guide you when to keep fighting and when to lay it down. Don't give up on Him, and don't give up on yourself.

{{{{{navewife}}}}}

Thanks Neak, I really needed to hear that. I am just so frustrated. I mean all the other aspects of our relationship are doing ok, its just this ugly sex thing, and it consumes the whole marriage. It is VERY frustrating. I feel like if we could just take sex out of the equation for a while and work on making our marriage about all the other things in life (friendship,parenting,love, ect )Then maybe the attraction might return, but everytime I try to concentrate on that or do that, he starts hinting of sex and/or growing octopus arms and then I feel like here we go, he is not getting sex and now he is losing control, which leads me to feel like, I guess now since I am not giving him any he will stray. Just is all very overwhelming sometimes. Thanks for your kind words, I forget to focus sometimes, and you guys remind me of things when my mind trips out. I am so glad I can post here. Thanks a million

Just having a bad day and thought I would unload. Still really having a hard time with this stuff. I am at the point where I love him, but I dont think I am "in love" with him. I am so messed up in the head. I miss being attracted to him. Now when I do have sex, its just that,...sex...no feeling with it anymore, no admiration, attraction, affection. Then when we are done, always still comparing what we did to what he did with OW. It makes me wonder if you EVER really stop that and move on. At this point I am feeling like so overwhelmed with the thought that this will be something that will stick. I mean how do I just turn off my mind and let go? So far, I cant. He doesnt feel safe to me. After all,this is a man who cheated, brought a strange man in MY home to have oral sex, and traded naked pics of me without my knowlege. Not to mention the email to another man trying to get him to seduce me (again without my knowlege) so he could watch. I feel like I am married to a low life sicko. I worry if he can go that far with deception with me, are my children safe? I have tried counseling, I am taking Zoloft, and yet I am still depressed. I put on a huge act everyday, trying to look like the strong one in front of the people that know, and playing the happy wife in front of the people who dont, and hiding alot of it in front of my kids. I feel like I am not living anymore, just existing. I force myself to get out of bed every morning, i force myself to go to work, and try my best despite not being able to focus on anything other then checking the GPS and his facebook and emails every five minutes. Which is really bad , because my work performance has really slipped and the bosses have noticed. I am so scared I will lose my job over this. Then I will have to depend on my WH totally, and that thought scares me to death. Having to depend on the very person I dont feel safe with...really. Ugg this is just endless, unrelenting torcher. Then I have thoughts of winning the lottery and being able to just up and leave. Providing my kids with a wonderful life, and being blissfully away from this mess. However, then I think about how I am overweight from just having a baby, and how I am 36 with 2 small children, and how that will be such a turn off to try to start dating again will be torcher. The thought of being alone is torcher. The thought of him meeting someone else who may try to play mommy to my kids, is torcher, the thought of my children possibly being exposed to different men and women involved with my husband who he doesnt know since he meets them on the net scares the crap out of me. I am still soo soo lost. I know everyone says this takes time, but how do you make it through to the other side till then. I really need to hear from people who have been through this and have been recoverd for a while, I need to hear that it is possible to get the attraction, and loving feelings back. I dont want to live the rest of my life like I am now. Not happy, and always on edge, I am not sure how much longer I can do it. I am trying so hard, I see him trying hard, but it just plain doesnt matter to me, the damage is done, I think he could die for me and I would still think to myself, oh well, he guess that is what he gets. Its an awful thing to say, but frankly, I have had many awful thoughts lately. I hate where my mind is.Please tell me that this will fade. Please tell me it is possible to recover our marriage. Please tell me its possible to have sex with my hubby again without feeling repulsed, sad, or pissed. Thanks again for letting me vent, I really needed that.

What you have been through is far worse than most BS's have to endure. Whether with him or without him, it will take you a long time to heal.

I believe that as long as you are both willing to continue making the effort, you can save your M and be in love with each other again.

So yes, it can happen. Will it? I don't know. All those reasons you mentioned about your kids are a very good reason to give this plenty of time and see what happens. You're healing a little every day, so you've lost nothing. Either you will heal by yourself, and that's ok, or you will heal together. There's no rush to decide.

navewife, is he still being treated for SA? How is that going? And you have any sort of support as the spouse of an SA? If he is still being treated, what does his counselor recommend for you?

nw,


You are now at the six month mark. It is not unusual to have a lot of anger right now. Pretty typical pattern.

What bothers me about your recovery though is that your posts and thoughts really haven't changed over time. Your feelings toward him don't look to be moving much. I've looked at how your thoughts are processing, and you are thinking much the same way as you were when you first came:

disgust at what he has done

fear that you were not enough for him

uncertainty that he will repeat once you feel like things are "normal" again

death of any previous attraction toward him which now looks like is moving toward emotional indifference toward him



I am concerned that the two of you are not working on a program together that is meeting any of your emotional needs. It appears to me that he is looking at what he needs, and making moves to get his needs filled, but that your needs are not being met.

Go back to the basics, fill out the emotional needs questionnaire again, and figure out what YOU are not getting from him.


Also, you need professional guidance. Call or email the Harleys.

it will take time but you will heal from this. Thoughts of the A will eventually fade. I hope you are okay just keep posting.

These questions (about SA and recovery/relapse) may be better answered by a professional who deals in that field.

I harldy know of any addict who can (just up and) say "I'm done!" and it is over... but I don't really know that many.

I can not even begin to tell you what you should do. You have pointed out some serious questions/consequences that are more layered than the typical A.

I know you love your H. You can tell by reading the angst in your posts.
That being said.....

I agree with SB post above, at some point you are going to have to chose your path.

Well here I am again, lost dazed and confused. I found out he had a fake facebook profile and a fake email set up, and had been chatting and sharing pics with local girls, He sent me a friend request, supposedly to spy on me and see if I would cheat. CAN YOU BELIEVE THAT DUMB [censored]. He cheated and he doesnt trust me. What the @%$@^& arrrghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Then when I checked the messages on the email side, he had the nerve to say he was trying to create a believable history, like I am an idiot or something. If that was the case then he would have just stayed on fb, but he was talking to a local girl on the email, so they could send pics, cuz he wasnt allowed to get them on the coumputer he was on. Even when he was busted, he is still lying straight to my face not admitting what he has done. I am sooooooooooooooooooooooooo lost. I want to walk out, right now, but I cant I refuse to sweep my daughter up in a big mess in the middle of the school year. I just dont know how I am going to pull off over 6 months of playing happy family till I get things in order. makes me sick. Im so sad(

IMO, it would be far better for your DD to go through her parents separating than to watch her mom slowly go crazy. And you would, if you try to grit your teeth and play nice for so long.

Mr. Nave needs to move out now. You need to enlist the support of whatever family and friends you need to go to Plan B now. Today.

You don't have to make the decision whether to D or not right away. That can come later after you are NC with him for a while, and have some space to clear your head and begin to heal. You deserve that.

This latest incident cannot be minimized in any way. It was an assault on your M, and an assault on you personally. You will suffer terrible effects if you do not protect yourself immediately from his abuse. Your DD needs at least one sane parent, but you will not even give her that if you attempt to stay together at this point.

Separation does not automatically mean divorce. Your (fully justified) resentment may be more than you can overcome, but that's a question for another day. Get into Plan B, and get some peace for yourself.

How can we help you make this happen?

I am so sorry you are going through this.

My parents became separated in the middle of a school year when I was a boy. It was traumatic, but ultimately it became helpful when I also became separated from the damaging parent.

Your husband is obviously not acting in a way that is taking care of you. This is terrible not only for you but also for your daughter. I beg you to get him out of your lives immediately, for now. Even if you have to pull your daughter out of school to do it.

Please, your daughter is in a big mess now. You need to save her.

navewife,

Get out TODAY. He has broken your trust again. You will not survive this if you stay.

Your daughter is only 6. It is not like she is in high school. Make it an adventure for her. Show her strength not fear.

Go to your family and let him fall hard.

I totally agree. He is way, way sicker than you knew (and that was bad enough) and is long past the point where you can help him. He is an addict and he is drowning and he will only pull you and your daughter down with him.

Get him out today. Get your finances in order - open a new bank account that only you have access to and keep enough money there to run household and care for you and your daughter - and get him out.

He's going to have to clean up his own mess. You cannot help him with this - you've already tried that, but it means nothing to an addict.

Sometimes the kindest thing you can do is let them hit bottom on their own. That is the ONLY thing ever known to wake up an addict and make them want to change.

Get him out today, take care of your money, and go to a very, very dark Plan B. We can help you here.

Mr. Nave is now Mr. Nave's problem - not yours.

Yeah well found out even more today, he made a fake profile on a website for moms that I belong to, posing as another woman to spy on me to find out if I was leaving him, grrrrr he cheats and I'm the one being spyed on...really. I'm so so angry I don't want to make any huge decisions while I feel this way. Going to stay and take some time to get my head together, all while buiding an exit stragety for the next time he screws up, which given his track record I am expecting won't be long from now.I'm done with the crying,preaching, fighting. He will either figure it out quckly or watch us hit the road. Not going to worry about him anymore, going to concentrate on getting myself mentally and physically together, raising my kids, updating resume, and there will be no sex no affection, just coparenting and cohabitation, I told him if he wants to save us he has to get it together but he has pretty much shattered what little trust I started to build so he is pretty much starting from scratch. I'm here for now but like I said not making any big decisions. Time to work on me a while so I can be stong and better able to make the right choices. Emotionally I'm a mess right now. I am determined to overcome that. Thanks for all your support. I will check in later

It is time for you.

When I posted to you two or more months ago, he was still working on what pleased HIM.

He is still doing that.

Coparenting and cohabitating will not change him or his behavior. He gets what he wants - you, cleaning his house, raising his child, and meeting all the domestic needs, and then he has this ONE need not met (SF)......so he uses this as an excuse for continuing affair behavior.

And he will blame you.



Get him out of the house.

Go to Plan B.


during Plan B you will have a MUCH BETTER chance of getting your head together, working on yourself, gaining the strength you need

and figuring out if you even want this guy in your life at all.

Meanwhile, he gets NO ENs met by you, and learns what it is like to be Mr. Single and Free. He will quickly find out it is not what he thinks. Or not.

Either way, you will be away from his poison and you can rest in quiet - without his constant presence making you feel sick and self-blaming.


GET HIM OUT OF YOUR HOUSE, or MOVE. You must get away from this man, go to Plan B, ASAP.

I believe it is your only hope of retaining any sense of sanity around Mr. Nave.

I searched "Bisexual" hoping to find a thread where someone is going through what I'm through and found this post. It is now over two years since there was any activity and I'm wondering how things turned out for Navewife.

I have not recently had a baby, but the rest of this story is very similar to my own. I'm only a week into trying to sort through my feelings but I know that I very much so want to fix my marriage and get it back on track. I hope it is possible, but I wonder if it is.

So Navewife... how are things? Can you give me some hope???

Hi, Betrayed,

Dr. Harley has indeed helped marriages recover from this situation, but I don't know if we know what happened in this particular marriage or not.

How about going back to your original thread and giving us an update? If your husband can't be brought on board with the recovery program, there is probably not much reason to hope. But if he will do what it takes, your prospects are good!

You might look through the archives of Dr. Harley's radio show. He has had calls about same-sex affairs several times.