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YEG, get a plan in place FIRST. That has to come FIRST. You dont' reconcile and hope for a future plan. HOPE IS NOT A PLAN. That is not how this is done.

Originally Posted by Dr. Harley
: Plan B is for the betrayed spouse to avoid all contact with the wayward spouse until the affair has completely ended and the wayward spouse has agreed to my plan for recovery.

In many cases, once an affair has ended, a betrayed spouse makes the mistake of taking the wayward spouse back before an agreement is made regarding marital recovery. This leads to a return to all the conditions that made the affair possible -- love is not restored, resentment is not overcome, and there is a very great risk for another affair. Without agreement and subsequent implementation of a plan for recovery, the betrayed spouse is better off continuing with plan B.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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YEG, I emphasize again that the definition of recovery in MARRIAGE BUILDERS TERMS is much, much more than just living together. It means the restoration of romantic love in an AFFAIR PROOFED marriage. Recovery will not happen by magic just by living together and hoping for the best.

PLEASE contact Steve Harley and let him help you negotiate the recovery of your marriage. And if she is not on board, then he can help you get back into plan B.

Having no plan like this is an invitation to a false recovery for no good reason.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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YEG, there is a huge difference between taking appropriate risks and taking foolish risks. A reconcilation with NO PLAN for recovery is a foolish risk and an invitation to a false recovery. That is NEVER advocated by the Harleys. In fact, Steve coaches people to have their WS talk to him FIRST before reconciliation takes place to make sure the WS is willing and committed to recovery.

Your wife is NOT committed to recovery if there are not even EPs in place. That is the first STEP and that has not been taken, YEG.

I know what I got now isnt a recovery. I dont know what it is. I dont know if im in plan A still and she is just meeting some of my needs or what.

Quote
p.s. YEG, I may be preaching to the choir, but in MB terms, recovery means the end of the affair, affair proofing the marriage, and the CREATION of romantic love in the marriage.

I know it as injury treatment and recovery since thats the terms steve used to me but i KNOW you cant do recovery unless the underlying wound is treated first.

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There is Plan A, Plan B and Plan RECOVERY. No in between. Dr Harley is very clear that Plan C [for compromise] is what will lead to a divorce.
Plan Craziness and confusion isnt what I want.

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You need to continue to monitor your WW. Not doing so is just asking for contact to continue. I don't care what your WW says. If she doesn't like it, she can go move back in with her parents and get nothing from you. YOU need to be the one in charge. I thought you were driving this train?
Easier said than done. My WW is finally giving me attention and meeting my needs. Kicking her out once im making some progress just isnt that palatable.



(ME) BS - 33YO
(HER) WW - 32YO
Married 7 years
DD5
D-Day - 5/1/10 (PA)
Exposure 5/7/10
Plan A 5/7/10 -
Plan B or Recovery on 7-1-10 Its in her court ATM
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Will you call Steve and get his help in getting her engaged in a PLAN?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Alright lets talk about plans then.

Here is where I am.

WW is sleeping in the same bed as me. No more going to her parents.
She is asking questions about cruises and things I had shown interest in that have a longer term than a day or so away.
She is asking questions about ending the divorce process.
She is showing me affection. She is caring for me when I get upset.
While she is VERY against me monitoring her she is trying to be open to me. She will tell me when she is on the computer and what she is doing.

Thats the good list.

bad list.
Showing pushback on EPs. She thinks its ridiculous for me to monitor her with GPS and KL.
Still very concerned about status of M long term. She is basically concerned about 3 or 4 months down the road everything falling apart.
Still not wearing her wedding band. Shows to me she is still unsure about the M.
No way to verify NC.

Things I believe but have no idea
She wants to save the M but is concerned with the damage we have done is too great.
Worried that ina few months we will be right back where we started. If thats going to happen why even try.
Concerned that given time I will fall back into old habits.
Doesnt want to hurt the OM. Doesnt want to cut him loose till she has completely decided. Basically wants him as a fall back guy.

The options I see
Return yet again to a Plan A behavior. Its basically what im doing now anyways. I met her needs with no expectation of having mine met. I think she likes what she is seeng she is just unsure if I can keep it up.

Plan B
Cut her off till she consents to all EPs.


Here is what im going to do.

Plan A.
Im going to stay in the house with her. Im also going to make an appointment with Steve. If she will go then she goes. If not I will get his guidance on what to do now.

Im also trying to get her to sign a reconciliation agreement. Thats for 2 reasons. It removes artificial timelines of a divorce from over our heads and it protects me. Im living in the same house as her again. My case is significantly weakened by that if she DID want to challenge the adultery claims.

As far as monitoring ill continue to snoop as best I can. No way I can get a KL on her computer. I still have the cell phones account i can monitor. She is also almost out of money so she is dependent on me for that too.

Going to ask for her bank access as well. Can monitor for A phones that way too.

I think the key thing is getting her to talk to steve. He can gauge her level of commitment and give me some idea on what to work on.


(ME) BS - 33YO
(HER) WW - 32YO
Married 7 years
DD5
D-Day - 5/1/10 (PA)
Exposure 5/7/10
Plan A 5/7/10 -
Plan B or Recovery on 7-1-10 Its in her court ATM
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Will you call Steve and get his help in getting her engaged in a PLAN?

Absolutely. Im trying to push her that way. She is a slow mover by nature. She doesnt want to do anything quickly. She likes to mull decisions over.

If I try to push things on her too quickly she will shutdown. What Ill do is schedule and appointment and then tell her I have it scheduled. See if I can get her to take advantage of it. It will likely be a few weeks out since hes pretty booked atm anyways.


(ME) BS - 33YO
(HER) WW - 32YO
Married 7 years
DD5
D-Day - 5/1/10 (PA)
Exposure 5/7/10
Plan A 5/7/10 -
Plan B or Recovery on 7-1-10 Its in her court ATM
My thread
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My WW is finally giving me attention and meeting my needs. Kicking her out once im making some progress just isnt that palatable.


NEWS FLASH!!!

That is NOT progress.

She can be meeting every need you have...and still be schlepping over to the OM and meeting his too.

Don't confuse CAKE EATING with progress...wrong wrong wrong..

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Originally Posted by YEG
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Will you call Steve and get his help in getting her engaged in a PLAN?

Absolutely. Im trying to push her that way. She is a slow mover by nature. She doesnt want to do anything quickly. She likes to mull decisions over.

YEG, I wouldn't even bring it up. Just get an appointment for yourself and let Steve guide you out of this.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by committedandlovi
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My WW is finally giving me attention and meeting my needs. Kicking her out once im making some progress just isnt that palatable.


NEWS FLASH!!!

That is NOT progress.

She can be meeting every need you have...and still be schlepping over to the OM and meeting his too.

Don't confuse CAKE EATING with progress...wrong wrong wrong..

committed

Agree, this is not progress. Just the fact that she is still hiding things from you reflects someone who is not interested in recovery but in protecting her affair.

I don't see any progress here at all.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Yeg, you were in Plan B before, weren't you?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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NEWS FLASH!!!

That is NOT progress.

She can be meeting every need you have...and still be schlepping over to the OM and meeting his too.

Don't confuse CAKE EATING with progress...wrong wrong wrong..

YEG:

It seems to me that some folks expect instant conversion to hermetic NC and the end of withdrawal in one fraction of a second. With few exceptions I believe this is an unrealistic expectation. She will reach hermetic NC at some point down the road.

Her withdrawal will make her break NC and this will make he withdrawal longer. Do not have such high expectations or you will feel miserable again.

The forum member are correct and this is not recovery. However, this is a positive move towards recovery (when she is no longer in withdrawal and is in hermetic NC).

Lets pretend she is faking everything with you. She may very well be faking, but in the end love is a verb and not a feeling.

WW is not comatose anymore, she seems to be waking up. Keep up the good work. Do not whine or be needy. be cool and show no anger.




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Originally Posted by Stan-ley
[It seems to me that some folks expect instant conversion to hermetic NC and the end of withdrawal in one fraction of a second. With few exceptions I believe this is an unrealistic expectation. She will reach hermetic NC at some point down the road.

Oh no, Stan, it is not an unrealistic expectation AT ALL to have a plan of recovery in PLACE, it is how this program works. He needs to stick to this program as subscribed and not settle for a false recovery.

I don't know why you would encourage him to believe that no plan of recovery will lead to recovery. If he settles for that, he might be facing years of on again, off again contact as you have. Do you want him to suffer the same fate? I don't.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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YEG, you have to stand firm. She must agree to NC, and write the letter. She needs to agree to KL and GPS so that YOU can verify NC. Anything else is insufficient.

As for my understanding of the adultery issues during a divorce, if you have sex with a WS, you've written off using adultery as a weapon unless they commit to the physical act again with their AP.

You might want to double-check on this, but that's what messed up Evander Holyfield's divorce from his WW about ten or so years ago. She talked him into the sack, then took his cash in the divorce settlement.


BH 52
FWW 50
S26 S24
EA 3/07-1/09
PA 5/07-10/08
NC finally established after eight false starts: 1/23/09
Final Version of Events 6/09
In a solid Recovery, and lucky beyond belief.
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Stan-ley,

In all honesty this does NOT indicate a postive move toward recovery.

NOTHING indicates a positive move toward recovery more than a PLAN that is in place and one that SHE is doing.

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Originally Posted by committedandlovi
Stan-ley,

In all honesty this does NOT indicate a postive move toward recovery.

NOTHING indicates a positive move toward recovery more than a PLAN that is in place and one that SHE is doing.

committed

I agree and disagree at the same time.

When I was a BH my view to WW was simple: "You are in the marriage or else I call OM so he can come and pick you up". I had no desire to work with a non-motivated WW.

I am no fan of Plan A when the WW is totally disinterested. In this instance it is all about Plan B.

This WW seems to respond to PLan B. YEG was in plan B for two minutes and WW showed signs of life.

I am not there with YEG and WW, but it is safe to assume she is in withdrawal and like all addicts will try to break NC to medicate herself.

I think YEG needs to ride this storm and wait for withdrawal to subside. Maybe you have an MB name for this.




Last edited by Stan-ley; 07/05/10 01:00 PM.

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Originally Posted by Stan-ley
[
I think YEG needs to ride this storm and wait for withdrawal to subside. Maybe you have an MB name for this.

Yes, breaking Plan B before the WS has agreed to meet your conditions is called a FALSE RECOVERY. Almost every WS tries to get the BS to break Plan B when they start missing the BS. BUT, that doesn't mean they are ready to meet the conditions outlined in the Plan B letter. It just means they are testing the BS to see if he is SERIOUS.

YEG is not serious. And she knows this. He will settle for the lowest common denominator. Therefore, SHE will not be serious about meeting his conditions for recovery. She knows it is a joke.

If the BS allows them back in without meeting the Plan B conditions then the WS is LESS LIKELY to EVER meet those conditions because he is simply teaching her that he has NO CONDITIONS and she can do whatever she pleases.

This is what Dr Harley and Steve WARN Plan Bers about. But this advice has been ignored here and this is encouraged by some posters who have confused recovery with reconciliation. There is a HUGE DIFFERENCE.

Yeg, I will just mention again that a false recovery is worse than the initial D-Day. This is why it is so important to have a PLAN before you quit Plan B. I realize its more fun to tell you what you want to hear, but I fear for your future using this non strategy strategy.

Originally Posted by Dr Harley
In many cases, once an affair has ended, a betrayed spouse makes the mistake of taking the wayward spouse back before an agreement is made regarding marital recovery. This leads to a return to all the conditions that made the affair possible -- love is not restored, resentment is not overcome, and there is a very great risk for another affair. Without agreement and subsequent implementation of a plan for recovery, the betrayed spouse is better off continuing with plan B.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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YEG, this is why I think it is important to question those who would tell you this is going to lead to recovery. Their idea of "recovery" is probably NOT MB's idea of recovery.

To some, just staying married in a crippled marriage is "recovery." And that is where you are headed too if you allow your WS back with no plan of recovery.

Breaking Plan B because a WS is uncomfortable in Plan B is a huge mistake. Discomfort is a sign it is working.

REmoving the discomfort removes her motivation for change and disarms you of any leverage you might have had. In other words, Plan B was working so you stopped it.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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This WW seems to respond to PLan B. YEG was in plan B for two minutes and WW showed signs of life.


Lorda Mercy...she didn't show signs of LIFE.

The majority...VAST majority of waywards react this way when they are IGNORED by their betrayed spouse.

It means that the WS is no longer driving the train and it doesn't sit well with them.

Your wayward wife returned to the marriage when you "threatened" to expose. I believe she told you that she would commit suicide if you did...so she in essence set the plan for recovery (a term I use loosely in your situation).

It is the wayward plan of "I will return home if you do not tell anyone". Somehow, I don't think that this is a strong plan.

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There is a reason why there must be transparency and complete access and keyloggers and VAR, and GPS so you can verify NC.

What does yeg do?

Tells WW about all of his means of verifcation and removes them.

WW comes back home without NC letter and agreement to be transparent.

Why?

So she can claim you took her back and she has better legal standing in court in front of a judge. So she can get you to stop the divorce. So she can keep stringing you along and resume doing her OM when things settle down.

Answer: any one, any combination, or all of the above.

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Talk to Steve and see what he advises. You have had GREAT dealings with him in the past. I KNOW he can help guide you through this.


BW(Me)aka Scotty:37
DSx2: 10,12
DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09
Plan B Dec18/09
Personal R in works
Scotty's THING laugh
Newly Betrayed click here


Praying for walls and doors. Thanx MM

Surviving is important. Thriving is elegant.
? Maya Angelou

PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION

THANK YOU
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