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Originally Posted by RisingFromAshes
No need in your case for a foot in mouth smiley, (though I need one quite often), I post primarily as a BS. I did so at first because when I first came here I was not aware that the first incident even qualified as infidelity, so I believed I was ONLY a BS.

I do so now because when I had my revenge ONS, I was well aware of my boundaries, and I chose to ignore them. I had both feet in hell and I was taking my H down with me, even though I was aware that I was sacrificing a piece of my soul to do it. I was enraged enough to hurt myself to hurt him.

So the usual things that are advised to make a BS feel safe dont make my H feel safe. When I asked him if there was anything that would help him feel safe he told me that what he needed was for me to heal from what he did. He feels safe when I am happy in the M (or at least when I am not hurting from what he did), so I come here and post to try and heal, because healing me heals him too.

So I'm still here, trying to crawl out of the hole and pulling him along behind me.


Kinda get that. FWW has stated several times she wishes I would have an RA.

At one time, when I asked for separation, she stated that she wouldn't let me leave, but if I wanted to date I could... while living under the same roof.

faint

It was just so crazy, that it worked. No RA.


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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It's not a path I would recommend, and I try to catch any posters I see making musings about how they think it would help or make them feel better etc and let them know from personal experience that it doesnt and it wont. You are right it is crazy.

I stopped taking the vitamins, I havent really slept in 3 days. I doubt it's the vitamins but since it started when I started taking them I thought I would skip today and see what happened.

I'm to the point now where I think I have to admit that it's just my depression again. Sometimes bad things trigger it, and I think that the New Year's Eve anniveray of his last one night stand and then January being the start of all his infidelity from the year before was enough to set it off. I dont like having to admit it, but it happens sometimes.

Nothing I can do but just try and keep it under control until my mood swings back to happy. It's just a normal depressive episode, not the crazed rapid cycling like I was doing right after the most recent set of DDays, so hopefully it will pass soon.

My H is being great about it. I remember before trying to get him to help me and he blew me off to go to the bar. Now he notices that I am sad, and seems concerned. He was singing me happy songs today to make me smile. I think some days that I dont even know this person, he is so different from what he was the first year and a half we were married.

We found out a few days ago that two of his brothers are getting divorced. One because his wife went out and blew $18,000 in three months without him being aware of it. The other because his wife, who has already given birth to twin girl OC's from her first A, just got caught in having had three affairs since the twins were born two years ago. My BIL couldnt handle raising the twins so my MIL and FIL have them. We offered them MB, and have in the past too, but they just dont seem interested.

No matter how bad I feel, it could be worse. My H and I did find MB, and we are still married. He told me he thought we were very lucky, and he is right.


We lived in two different countries for two years. Thank you US Army.

Me-24 FWW/BW
DH-27 FWH/BH
DS-6 years DD- 1 year

Not until we are lost do we begin to understand ourselves. ~Henry David Thoreau

Life is a process of becoming, a combination of states we have to go through. Where people fail is that they wish to elect a state and remain in it. This is a kind of death. ~Anas Nin

If you aren't sure who you are, you might as well work on who you want to be. ~Robert Brault,


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I still cant sleep, but I am using being up all night to get stuff done.

I finally got all thirteen pages of notes done from the parenting books we picked out so I can start doing a better job on Family Commitment. While we are working out the fine details on that I am starting on my notes from our finance books so we can get a better hold on our budget and make sure we have used POJA on a plan to get us where we want to be with our money situation.

I made my list of things I like I about myself, and areas where I can focus on trying to improve myself. I did a list for my H too, on about two dozen reasons why I love him, and how lucky we are to have each other and how grateful I am that he is fighting with me to save our M. So my fearless act for yesterday was chosing to believe, even if only for yesterday, that everything is what it seems and he really is doing everything he can to make this work.

Everytime he sees me look sad he tells me that is here, and he is going to do everything in his power to stay here with me for the rest of our lives. Every time he says it, I make the choice to believe it.


We lived in two different countries for two years. Thank you US Army.

Me-24 FWW/BW
DH-27 FWH/BH
DS-6 years DD- 1 year

Not until we are lost do we begin to understand ourselves. ~Henry David Thoreau

Life is a process of becoming, a combination of states we have to go through. Where people fail is that they wish to elect a state and remain in it. This is a kind of death. ~Anas Nin

If you aren't sure who you are, you might as well work on who you want to be. ~Robert Brault,


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My fearless act for yesterday was finally emailing the radio show about my issue of not thinking he was attracted to me...Dr. Harley says it sounds to him like the reason I feel that way is because my H ISNT attracted to me.

I feel so much better now... banghead

Anyways its replaying till tomorrow, just in case anybody wants to listen. Joyce was very sweet though!

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Originally Posted by RisingFromAshes
My fearless act for yesterday was finally emailing the radio show about my issue of not thinking he was attracted to me...Dr. Harley says it sounds to him like the reason I feel that way is because my H ISNT attracted to me.

I feel so much better now... banghead

Anyways its replaying till tomorrow, just in case anybody wants to listen. Joyce was very sweet though!


D'oh!

Did he give you any strategies to address this?


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Click to reveal.. (My Stuff)
FWH 36 EA/PA NC & D-day 12/21/10
FWW 36 EA / NC & D-day 12/8/10
Married: 12+ years
Together: 17+
Kids: x3
Working together to be better than ever!


And if the music stops
There's only the sound of the rain
All the hope and glory
All of the sacrifice in vain
And if love remains
Though everything is lost
We will pay the price
But we will not count the cost
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Thanks Rush, that was a good read, and it's something I dont do enough for myself. I set my standards at perfection and if I fall short of (which I do since everyone does) I beat myself up about it for eternity.

HHH,

There was a bit more correspondence with Dr. Harley after the show yesterday to clarify some things that he was basing his opinion on that were incorrect (like the idea that maybe I had trapped my H into marrying me by being pregnant, which was completely not true).

My H and I have been over everything that he said to us and between the advice we received yesterday on the show, and what he told us after the show with the corrections. The basic idea is this:

My H did love me and he was attracted to me when he married me.

The addictions and the infidelilty are what caused him to feel that he was not in love with me and not attracted me, not the lack of attraction that caused the infidelity (or created a vulnerability to it since I cant make him cheat).

He did believe that he wasnt attracted to me when he said it, for a number of reasons. Addictions shut down your love bank because the addiction is meeting your EN's, so he did not feel "in love" with me. My H had a long history of pornography use and sleeping around (addictions to drugs and alcohol tend to lead to unsafe sexual behavior), that had caused him to develop unrealistic expectations of the female body. No one would have been able to meet his idea of what he wanted because no such perfect woman exists. He was also operating under a biased contrast effect that caused him to focus only on my flaws because it helped him to feel less guilty if he could blame me instead of the addictions.

Dr Harley's advice was-
for my husband to be passionately in love with me
for him to never ever look at another naked woman other than me
get rid of his addictions


We have done all of that already.

So basically when he said he wasnt attracted to me, he was being honest because that's what he believed.

When he says now that I am the most beautful woman in the world, he is being honest, because that's what he believes.

The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. I am probably not the most attractive woman he has ever seen, though he thinks that I am because he loves me and he isnt looking at other women, but he was more attracted to me than what he was willing to admit to himself he was cheating.

He ended up married to me in the first place because I was attractive enough for him to want to get to know me, and spend time with me. Maybe not perfect, but still pretty good.

He was just a mental mess, and our separations were disasters waiting to happen. By the time he got his mess straightened up, I had been in Plan A far too long and the realationship had been so painful that I had no love left for him and I was a mental mess.

We are on the same page now though, and as long as we keep up meeting each others needs and he stays away from the porn and the addictions we have a decent chance of saving the M.



We lived in two different countries for two years. Thank you US Army.

Me-24 FWW/BW
DH-27 FWH/BH
DS-6 years DD- 1 year

Not until we are lost do we begin to understand ourselves. ~Henry David Thoreau

Life is a process of becoming, a combination of states we have to go through. Where people fail is that they wish to elect a state and remain in it. This is a kind of death. ~Anas Nin

If you aren't sure who you are, you might as well work on who you want to be. ~Robert Brault,


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Rising,

I heard the radio show and thought there was much more info for Dr Harley to make some comments that really applied to you. I am glad there was correspondence after it went off the air. This above post is so positive. I am so glad for you and for your H and child.

AM


BW - 65
WH - 60
M - 35 years
D-day - 17 Apr 08
DD - 44, DS - 30, DS - 23
H broke contact 11/1/09
Back in love after the worst thing that every happened to us.
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Thank you AM. The thing that got to me most was when Dr. Harley told me that NO woman would have been able to meet my H's standards for very long. Even if he had married an eighteen year old porn star, he would have had to replace her as soon as she started to show signs of aging. It clicked with me because my H has told me that he has never been really satisfied with the bodies of any woman he was in a relationship with. His ideal woman would look something like a life size Barbie doll, flat stomach, narrow waist, wide hips, and a very large naturally perky chest. I've never seen such a woman, and if I did it would be kinda scary.

I'm kind of a great example why Plan B is such a good idea, because by the time he came around I was so buried in anger and resentment that I have a lot of issues to work through. He is doing great now, but all of that resentment is constantly draining my $LB.

Every time I work through something, another issue comes up right behind it.

I got my tubes tied after I had DD, because I too afraid to have any more kids with his attitude towards my body. He wanted to wait, and maybe have another, but I was sure I would never ever be enthusiastic about that because it would be risking my M even more. Now that I know that there is a good chance of him being ok with my body...it would have been so nice to have another baby someday. Even if we never decided to, it would be nice to still have the option. I was twenty two when DD was born, so I still had a lot of years left for us to make that decision.

So it's over one resentment and on to working out the next one, cause infidelity is the gift that just keeps on giving...

Actually he may have some resentment towards me for that one, since he wanted to wait and see if we wanted to go for baby number three someday, so I need to talk to him about ways we can help each other with that.


We lived in two different countries for two years. Thank you US Army.

Me-24 FWW/BW
DH-27 FWH/BH
DS-6 years DD- 1 year

Not until we are lost do we begin to understand ourselves. ~Henry David Thoreau

Life is a process of becoming, a combination of states we have to go through. Where people fail is that they wish to elect a state and remain in it. This is a kind of death. ~Anas Nin

If you aren't sure who you are, you might as well work on who you want to be. ~Robert Brault,


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Quote
... my H has told me that he has never been really satisfied with the bodies of any woman he was in a relationship with. His ideal woman would look something like a life size Barbie doll, flat stomach, narrow waist, wide hips, and a very large naturally perky chest.

I got my tubes tied after I had DD, because I too afraid to have any more kids with his attitude towards my body. ... I was sure I would never ever be enthusiastic about that because it would be risking my M even more.

RFA, I have rewritten this comment four times, and I just can't get it not to sound like I'm ashamed to share a gender with your husband. So, I might just as well say it.

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faint I just spit Dr. Pepper all over my laptop! rotflmao

He was a mental case, and I was a worse one for actually blaming myself for not living up to his standards. He was great in a lot of ways, and I didnt see how abusive it was. It took me awhile but I finally figured out what his expectations were of me when we got married:

I had to have the perfect body. I actually have 5 sections of clothes in my closet so that I have a selection of outfits that meet his requirements for different situations, I have fancy dressy clothes, revealing bar clothes, dressy casual thats sexy but not in a revealing way for when we are out with the kids, jeans and tight shirts for outdoor recreation, and then my sexy comfy clothes for wearing around the house. All to show off my almost perfect but not quite body, that he wasnt happy with anyway.

I was supposed to keep a clean organized house, clean happy perfectly behaved children, all on a schedule that included time for SF at whatever time of day he wanted to.

I was supposed to be the perfectly polite lady in public especially to his family, who was supposed to love me like their own daugher.

I was supposed to be a porn star behind closed doors, and provide him with an unlimited selection of new and exciting activities to keep him from being bored.

I was supposed to be healthy, fit, and naturally athletic, and especially enjoy playing soccer, football, and baseball, and I had to be good at it so that I could provide him with some friendly competetion.

I had to be smart, funny, well-read, and interesting at all times to talk to.

I was supposed to be his pretty arm ornament, and be always clinging to him, so that other men would look and know that he had a perfect and wonderful wife and be jealous. I was not allowed to speak to or make eye contact with any of these men, because then he would be jealous.

I must be able to shoot and clean a gun (which I can actually do lol, I can hit a person sized target from 300 meters), fix cars, and possess many other "boy skills". I should be able to do this without messing up my hair, or chipping my nail polish, so that I can be pretty while I do it. My best guess is that this is some kind of odd muscle car/motorcycle calendar model fantasy...


I guess in there somewhere I would also have to time to do the unimportant things like eating and sleeping too.

He didnt want one woman, he wanted EVERY woman, all rolled up into one. And apparently one that had about 48 hours in every day to actually be able to accomplish all this. He told me once that his dream life would have been to have me and all 5 of the OW's...he would have had a variety of body types and personalities to keep him entertained, like his own little harem.

He's come down a lot off the crazy in the last seven months, since I got him off the porn.

I wonder how many younger men in our age group actually have these impossible to meet unspoken expectations, because porn use is very popular. Most of the women my age that I know complain about their H's watching it so often that it is messing up the SF in their marriages. The women dont say anything though, or get ignored if they do, because it's accepted as "normal and expected" for the men to do this.

It's just sad.


Last edited by RisingFromAshes; 01/15/11 10:19 PM.

We lived in two different countries for two years. Thank you US Army.

Me-24 FWW/BW
DH-27 FWH/BH
DS-6 years DD- 1 year

Not until we are lost do we begin to understand ourselves. ~Henry David Thoreau

Life is a process of becoming, a combination of states we have to go through. Where people fail is that they wish to elect a state and remain in it. This is a kind of death. ~Anas Nin

If you aren't sure who you are, you might as well work on who you want to be. ~Robert Brault,


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Originally Posted by RisingFromAshes
He is doing so well now, and he is caring and attentive and supportive. He seems honestly remorseful and tells me that I am the best thing in his life. I just hate myself so much that I cant see how it could be true. I am afraid to believe him because I didnt see what he was doing before and I believed his lies. I dont trust my own judgement.

Learning to love my H again was a piece of cake compared to learning to love myself again.

This whole experience changed my perspective of who I am. I never would have thought I would have stayed. I dont recognize the fearful ashamed person I have become. I dont even know who I am anymore.

The artice HHH posted about accepting us as we are now...I dont know how to accept who I am now. I want the happy confident fearless woman I used to be back.

I am afraid she is gone forever.

How do you learn to love yourself again?

Flip the genders, and that could be me right now. Even at this point of R, I'm still riding the roller coaster. When I'm on the down phase, that's exactly how I feel. The bad part, on the up phase, I don't feel a whole lot differently.

What I hate about all this is that I've turned into a regular Eeyore -- me, Mr. Optimism, the glass-half-full guy. It's almost like I'm punishing myself for whatever transgressions I committed, real or imagined.

And this is despite having an FWW who's truly earned the "F" part of the label. About the only complaint I have is that she won't talk about her deepest feelings and thoughts. (Is this a gender-switch hoot or what?) We had a long discussion about this a month or so ago, and she regards getting into this kind of thing as either boring or a sign of being weak.

There of course is a back-story to all this. Her father died when she was 10, she's been sexually assaulted, and her first two boyfriends both could have been put in jail for things they did to her. (The first is now beyond legal reach and I'm certain warming his toes somewhat South of this plane of existence. I'd certainly throw a log on the fire for his benefit, if you know what I mean. What a POS!)

In short, what I've been through this one time, she's been there/done that four different times. We of course have different personalities. I'm a guy who thinks out loud. I reason better when I hear myself saying things so I can really sort out the wheat from the chaff -- and there's always more chaff than wheat.

I know that what she did still tortures her. Every once in a while I'll be exposed to stimuli and her response to my knee-jerk reaction is heartbreaking to watch. The most recent was when an ad for "The Dilemma" came on TV. I just whirled and walked out of the room to get away from it. When I came back, she was trying to hide it, but she was crying after seeing my reaction to the commercial.

I've told her that I want her to open up to me on stuff like that; that it would help me understand where she's at, but she's totally resistant. She sees it as indulging her weakness. We're talking Stiff Upper Lip without having much English ancestry.

It's nothing new -- she's always been this way, but I do wish she'd loosen up. Ain't gonna happen, and it's unrealistic to expect it. It's not that she doesn't care deeply. I think she's afraid she'll totally break down if and when. I've tried to tell her that I'm the one person she can trust with all this, but she's like one of our cats -- ten years with us and this feline's guard is up all the time.

Funny thing is, this is my only real problem. For the rest of it, she's doing everything by the book -- without actually having read most of the books.

The bottom line here, RFA, is that you're working within a personality framework. No one will ever give you everything you want just exactly how you want it -- and that's mutual. You're not going to be 100% for anyone else either.

I'm a fine one to be giving advice on this topic. Maybe this is as much for my benefit as for yours.

Hang in there.


BH 52
FWW 50
S26 S24
EA 3/07-1/09
PA 5/07-10/08
NC finally established after eight false starts: 1/23/09
Final Version of Events 6/09
In a solid Recovery, and lucky beyond belief.
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It's after midnight here in NY, and I couldn't sleep, thinking I might have been imprecise in my prior note. What I probably should have specified that it was your husband in his prior vintage that was abhorent to learn of. I realized that if you and he were in an active "recovery" mode, it should not have been my place to divert you from that.

I'm glad you got the gist of my posting, and I'm sorry about the Dr Pepper.

But if it ever will help, and you want to kick him (hubby, not Dr. Pepper)back on track, feel free to share my thoughts with him!

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Originally Posted by AheadOfTheCurve
Originally Posted by RisingFromAshes
He is doing so well now, and he is caring and attentive and supportive. He seems honestly remorseful and tells me that I am the best thing in his life. I just hate myself so much that I cant see how it could be true. I am afraid to believe him because I didnt see what he was doing before and I believed his lies. I dont trust my own judgement.

Learning to love my H again was a piece of cake compared to learning to love myself again.

This whole experience changed my perspective of who I am. I never would have thought I would have stayed. I dont recognize the fearful ashamed person I have become. I dont even know who I am anymore.

The artice HHH posted about accepting us as we are now...I dont know how to accept who I am now. I want the happy confident fearless woman I used to be back.

I am afraid she is gone forever.

How do you learn to love yourself again?

Flip the genders, and that could be me right now. Even at this point of R, I'm still riding the roller coaster. When I'm on the down phase, that's exactly how I feel. The bad part, on the up phase, I don't feel a whole lot differently.

What I hate about all this is that I've turned into a regular Eeyore -- me, Mr. Optimism, the glass-half-full guy. It's almost like I'm punishing myself for whatever transgressions I committed, real or imagined.

And this is despite having an FWW who's truly earned the "F" part of the label. About the only complaint I have is that she won't talk about her deepest feelings and thoughts. (Is this a gender-switch hoot or what?) We had a long discussion about this a month or so ago, and she regards getting into this kind of thing as either boring or a sign of being weak.

There of course is a back-story to all this. Her father died when she was 10, she's been sexually assaulted, and her first two boyfriends both could have been put in jail for things they did to her. (The first is now beyond legal reach and I'm certain warming his toes somewhat South of this plane of existence. I'd certainly throw a log on the fire for his benefit, if you know what I mean. What a POS!)

In short, what I've been through this one time, she's been there/done that four different times. We of course have different personalities. I'm a guy who thinks out loud. I reason better when I hear myself saying things so I can really sort out the wheat from the chaff -- and there's always more chaff than wheat.

I know that what she did still tortures her. Every once in a while I'll be exposed to stimuli and her response to my knee-jerk reaction is heartbreaking to watch. The most recent was when an ad for "The Dilemma" came on TV. I just whirled and walked out of the room to get away from it. When I came back, she was trying to hide it, but she was crying after seeing my reaction to the commercial.

I've told her that I want her to open up to me on stuff like that; that it would help me understand where she's at, but she's totally resistant. She sees it as indulging her weakness. We're talking Stiff Upper Lip without having much English ancestry.

It's nothing new -- she's always been this way, but I do wish she'd loosen up. Ain't gonna happen, and it's unrealistic to expect it. It's not that she doesn't care deeply. I think she's afraid she'll totally break down if and when. I've tried to tell her that I'm the one person she can trust with all this, but she's like one of our cats -- ten years with us and this feline's guard is up all the time.

Funny thing is, this is my only real problem. For the rest of it, she's doing everything by the book -- without actually having read most of the books.

The bottom line here, RFA, is that you're working within a personality framework. No one will ever give you everything you want just exactly how you want it -- and that's mutual. You're not going to be 100% for anyone else either.

I'm a fine one to be giving advice on this topic. Maybe this is as much for my benefit as for yours.

Hang in there.

Thanks for sharing your perspective! It is very difficult when they dont share what is going on with them. It leaves you feeling constantly nervous. My H is a big one for denying negative emotions, it drives me crazy.

I am too emotional for that, but I convert all my "weak" emotions to anger. It's hard for me to admit to disappointment, hurt, fear, etc. so it comes out as me feeling angry. It's often hard for me to even figure out what emotion is under the anger. I am trying hard at it though!

I also have a perfectionism issue, I have very high expectations of myself. So him being upset that I am not "perfect"...well it kind of fed into my own already existing insecurities that I am not good enough if I am not perfect.

It's hard for me to accept that I wont ever be perfect. But you are right, I cant be 100% for him, though I will try to do the best I can. I am finding it comforting that no one else would be either, and if he had left me for an OW they wouldnt have been perfect for him either.

I fit his idea of perfect a lot more closely than any of them ever did, or ever could.

From your post it sounds like your W is remorseful, and that she loves you. Whatever treangressions you committed, real or imagined, are no longer an issue for her. You have become everything she wants, so take pride in that!

And I am a fine one to be giving you advice on that lol. It's so easy to advise others, and so hard to apply it our lives.


We lived in two different countries for two years. Thank you US Army.

Me-24 FWW/BW
DH-27 FWH/BH
DS-6 years DD- 1 year

Not until we are lost do we begin to understand ourselves. ~Henry David Thoreau

Life is a process of becoming, a combination of states we have to go through. Where people fail is that they wish to elect a state and remain in it. This is a kind of death. ~Anas Nin

If you aren't sure who you are, you might as well work on who you want to be. ~Robert Brault,


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Originally Posted by NeverGuessed
It's after midnight here in NY, and I couldn't sleep, thinking I might have been imprecise in my prior note. What I probably should have specified that it was your husband in his prior vintage that was abhorent to learn of. I realized that if you and he were in an active "recovery" mode, it should not have been my place to divert you from that.

I'm glad you got the gist of my posting, and I'm sorry about the Dr Pepper.

But if it ever will help, and you want to kick him (hubby, not Dr. Pepper)back on track, feel free to share my thoughts with him!

It was a good laugh, and I may share your thoughts with him if decides to stick his head back where he had it before!

I did get what you meant, and it wasnt distracting at all. Actually, it helped me to sit down and actually think about how high his expectations were, no one could have been all that for him.

It's nice to know that. I wasnt a failure or a bad wife despite my best efforts.

I feel a lot more peace now. There is nothing about me that just makes me destined to be a failure as a wife, which is how I felt before. I am not broken, or worthless.

It's not a magic pill to fix my life, or my M, but it is a big step in the right direction.

Last edited by RisingFromAshes; 01/16/11 08:11 PM.

We lived in two different countries for two years. Thank you US Army.

Me-24 FWW/BW
DH-27 FWH/BH
DS-6 years DD- 1 year

Not until we are lost do we begin to understand ourselves. ~Henry David Thoreau

Life is a process of becoming, a combination of states we have to go through. Where people fail is that they wish to elect a state and remain in it. This is a kind of death. ~Anas Nin

If you aren't sure who you are, you might as well work on who you want to be. ~Robert Brault,


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He is coming home the 29th of this month. Less than 2 weeks to go now.

Finally.


We lived in two different countries for two years. Thank you US Army.

Me-24 FWW/BW
DH-27 FWH/BH
DS-6 years DD- 1 year

Not until we are lost do we begin to understand ourselves. ~Henry David Thoreau

Life is a process of becoming, a combination of states we have to go through. Where people fail is that they wish to elect a state and remain in it. This is a kind of death. ~Anas Nin

If you aren't sure who you are, you might as well work on who you want to be. ~Robert Brault,


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So I got the bright idea to try and trim my own hair...which led to trying to cut my own hair...which led to me being in the salon in tears first thing this morning. The stylist said I did a good job and just added some layers but its shorter than I wanted it to be. Not a good thing for a week before he comes home but he has been very sweet about it. I have decided you can tell a lot about a man by the way he responds to stupid decisions and bad hair days. grin

The good news is that one of my fearless acts for last week was putting in an application for a freelance writer at an online magazine. I found out today I got the job! That feels pretty good, and is a step for me towards being able to support myself so that I am financially able to leave if I have to. I can fearlessly draw my line in the sand about future infidelity and know that I will be ok if I ever have to leave the M. I wont make much but I am getting experience to hopefully be able to move up to something that pays better. That aside it just feels good. I have a skill that is valuable. And my H was very proud of me.

He is doing better about giving me Admiration and that feels good too.


We lived in two different countries for two years. Thank you US Army.

Me-24 FWW/BW
DH-27 FWH/BH
DS-6 years DD- 1 year

Not until we are lost do we begin to understand ourselves. ~Henry David Thoreau

Life is a process of becoming, a combination of states we have to go through. Where people fail is that they wish to elect a state and remain in it. This is a kind of death. ~Anas Nin

If you aren't sure who you are, you might as well work on who you want to be. ~Robert Brault,


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Quote
I have decided you can tell a lot about a man by the way he responds to stupid decisions and bad hair days.
Uhhhhhh, that ain't necessarily gender-specific!

But congrats on the new gig!

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My H and I have a long standing difference of opinion, and he wanted me to post and get the perspective of other men.

Ever since we found MB, we have disagreed as to whether SF qualifies as an EN. While we both agree that it is very important in a M, he says it's an EN, I say it's a physical need. It's a need that we both have, we just disagree on the reason why this is important.

I dont feel anything emotional during SF, and this seems to bother him.

I honestly dont understand why it bothers him. We have SF regularly, I am usually the one who initiates it, and we do new things frequently to keep it from getting boring for him. He still isnt satisfied with it because I dont feel any emotion.

I dont get it, and he has tried to explain it and I still dont get it, so he sent me here to ask.

I guess he is hoping maybe someone else will be able to explain it in a way that I can understand. Anyone care to try and clue me in on how this is somehow ruining his enjoyment of SF?

I'm starting to get angry over this, since I am doing everything I am supposed to do and it isnt enough for him.


We lived in two different countries for two years. Thank you US Army.

Me-24 FWW/BW
DH-27 FWH/BH
DS-6 years DD- 1 year

Not until we are lost do we begin to understand ourselves. ~Henry David Thoreau

Life is a process of becoming, a combination of states we have to go through. Where people fail is that they wish to elect a state and remain in it. This is a kind of death. ~Anas Nin

If you aren't sure who you are, you might as well work on who you want to be. ~Robert Brault,


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Originally Posted by RisingFromAshes
My H and I have a long standing difference of opinion, and he wanted me to post and get the perspective of other men.

Ever since we found MB, we have disagreed as to whether SF qualifies as an EN. While we both agree that it is very important in a M, he says it's an EN, I say it's a physical need. It's a need that we both have, we just disagree on the reason why this is important.

I dont feel anything emotional during SF, and this seems to bother him.

I honestly dont understand why it bothers him. We have SF regularly, I am usually the one who initiates it, and we do new things frequently to keep it from getting boring for him. He still isnt satisfied with it because I dont feel any emotion.

I dont get it, and he has tried to explain it and I still dont get it, so he sent me here to ask.

I guess he is hoping maybe someone else will be able to explain it in a way that I can understand. Anyone care to try and clue me in on how this is somehow ruining his enjoyment of SF?

I'm starting to get angry over this, since I am doing everything I am supposed to do and it isnt enough for him.


Indeed, in MB terms SF is an emotional need. I don't quite know how you could study MB and miss that, as it is one of the base 10 emotional needs.

You not feeling emotional connection with SF is an issue, though! That is something you are going to have to explore; why do I not acknowledge the emotional aspect of a need that should only be met by my spouse?

I don't think your alone. Sadly, it took the A for FWW to "get it." Now, on the (very) odd occasion that I am just not capable of engaging, the sense of rejection is a LOT different.

You see, RFA, it's not just some willy-nilly funtime activity. It's not just a physical drive.

SF requires you to be physically and emotionally vulnerable to your spouse. I know that we often joke about it being "easy" for men; find some place warm, preferably moist, thrust, and repeat.

I can tell you that it just isn't so.

If you have no connection, if you are just "letting him do his thing" then there isn't any "F" just "S."


It's not just an act, RFA. It is an expression of love, trust, and commitment to your spouse. It is an expression of vulnerability and shared experience. It is not a romp with some d-bag in a back alley just to "get off."

I don't know. Either you get it, or you don't. But, I would seriously try to figure out the what and why behind that.


*edit*

More food for thought; if you look up Maslow's hierarchy of Needs, you will see your call; sex as a physical need. However, further up the hierarchy, sexual intimacy is also listed. Two separate human needs, being addressed by one act. Both have to be met for happiness - but one of those, the base physical need, can be met without the intimacy.

If you only meet the physical need, you are leaving a gaping hole and not fostering satisfaction.

I chased that feeling of satisfaction for years, and let me tell you it is quality and not quantity.

Last edited by HoldHerHand; 01/21/11 05:43 PM.

"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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