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I totally intend on keeping the pressure on, but it seems like it might be good to let what's been done sink in before dropping new bombs like contacting OM and putting the heat on him. Oh, no. You want to nail him strong and hard while the you-know-what is hitting the fan. Do this now.
D-Day 2-10-2009 Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever! Thank you Marriage Builders!
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WW got a therapist appt for tomorrow. I'd like to tee up some food for thought before she goes in. Ideas? This is a disaster. My hardly know what to say.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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WW got a therapist appt for tomorrow. I'd like to tee up some food for thought before she goes in. Ideas? This is a disaster. My hardly know what to say. Why don't you tell her you have a better idea, that you know of a counseling center that specializes in recovering from affairs, ask her to cancel the appt. tomorrow, and instead have a phone appt with MB?
Me,BW - 42; FWH-46 4 kids D-Day #s1 and 2~May 2006 D-Day #3~Feb.27, 2007 (we'd been in a FR) Plan B~ March 3 ~ April 6, 2007 In Recovery and things are improving every day. MB rocks.
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just sent this email to OM
I just want you to know that I am not done fighting for my wife and family, not by a long shot. You offer nothing except devastation and I will never let it happen. You may have WW snookered for the time being but no one else. I will not stop until you are gone. You should realize that her family knows who you are, and knows that you are intentionally destroying this family. You can never be a permanent part of her life.
..............................
I don't think there's anything I can do about the IC, but I will give it a try
BS (me) 49 WW 49 married 6 years dday1 8/23/10 NC 9/3/10 NC broken 12/10 dday2 2/6/11 NC2 3/5/11
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Nice letter!!
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Good job on the letter, fight!
FBW in recovery
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just had a brainstorm, think its a good one...
in our state judges ask kids of a certain age (ours are old enough) who they want to live with in a custody battle. I can tell her that if it should come to this I will be petitioning for custody, and why, and everything will come out.
Also if she leaves, ExH will obviously know and could petition for custody as well.
BS (me) 49 WW 49 married 6 years dday1 8/23/10 NC 9/3/10 NC broken 12/10 dday2 2/6/11 NC2 3/5/11
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Last edited by Delta_; 02/09/11 05:18 PM. Reason: double post
FBW in recovery
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fight, listen to ML about the IC. When I got here, my WH was seeing an IC who was encouraging a separation (this is common for IC's to encourage this kind of stuff to waywards who are complaining about being controlled or needing space!). Mel's first post to me was about losing the IC. I went and dug it up for you. It is from '07. I am so glad she posted this to me and that I listened...it could have been a disaster... You had better lose that counselor FAST lest you end up divorced. She is a moron who is giving him BAD advice that will destroy your marriage. She cares not a whit about your marriage but only about what makes him personally happy AT THE MOMENT. Seperation INCREASES YOUR RISK of divorce and makes it impossible to work on your marriage. It also increases the odds that he will have an affair.
I would undo that mistake FAST, before you end up in divorce court. You have a serious problem and having this "counselor" in your marriage is compounding the problem 10 fold. She does NOT KNOW how to save marriages and a marriage that could have been easily salvaged is being tossed away because of her stupidity and bad influence. Link: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...in=146544&Number=1958889#Post1958889
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The IC didn't work for me at all with regard to the marriage counseling. In fact, the IC believed my WS and thought I WAS THE ONE lying. In fact, he lied to the IC so well, that the IC said that I was horrible for wanting to make my ws want to remain married and that our best bet was to separate and "seek counseling for the pending divorce so we can be friends". Is that the crap you want to pay for? Trust me. It was a total waste of time and $. My xwh had the whole IC snookered. I like that word by the way. I wonder if the origin of that word has its' humble beginnings in Jersey? [img:center] http://ts1.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=397536340348&id=05bcec0d9cc77e015b3ea1d5939232f0[/img] Anyhow, like Dr. Harley says, IC is USELESS if the ws is still active in the affair. It does no good whatsoever. You can't HEAL a marriage where one is actively cheating. Only see a MB counselor who uses real MB principles or get phone counseling from MB.
Change happens by listening and then starting a dialogue with the people who are doing something you don't believe is right. ~Jane Goodall
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I asked WW if she would be interested in counseling that specializes in dealing with infidelity...answer was a flat no, nothing more said. Obviously, she understood that it would be with someone who was pro-marriage.
Another valley...I am really hurting. I feel like I need to vent some emotion but after last night I'm not sure
I feel really defeated right now and I don't know how much longer I can endure this pain
Last edited by fight4life; 02/09/11 07:29 PM.
BS (me) 49 WW 49 married 6 years dday1 8/23/10 NC 9/3/10 NC broken 12/10 dday2 2/6/11 NC2 3/5/11
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Answer was a flat no right now. You are not defeated not by a long shot. You don't quit on us, and we won't quit on you.
FBH,Dad No half measures, in anything.
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I asked WW if she would be interested in counseling that specializes in dealing with infidelity...answer was a flat no, nothing more said. Obviously, she understood that it would be with someone who was pro-marriage.
Another valley...I am really hurting. I feel like I need to vent some emotion but after last night I'm not sure
I feel really defeated right now and I don't know how much longer I can endure this pain Try this the next time counseling comes up, fight - tell her you've heard of a great place where therapists counsel couples to help them turn an 'okay' marriage into a fantastic one. Don't talk about 'specializing in infidelity' - she'll immediately feel on the defensive and will refuse. Sorry you're at such a hard point, fight - hang in there!
D-Day 2-10-2009 Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever! Thank you Marriage Builders!
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there is not the slightest crack in her resolve to end our M and continue the A.
She is set in stone right now, even after her meltdown last night. She is not going to joint counseling of any kind without a major change of heart.
I dont want to give up...but I am not seeing any light at all
BS (me) 49 WW 49 married 6 years dday1 8/23/10 NC 9/3/10 NC broken 12/10 dday2 2/6/11 NC2 3/5/11
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I asked WW if she would be interested in counseling that specializes in dealing with infidelity...answer was a flat no, nothing more said. Obviously, she understood that it would be with someone who was pro-marriage.
Another valley...I am really hurting. I feel like I need to vent some emotion but after last night I'm not sure
I feel really defeated right now and I don't know how much longer I can endure this pain nononono, you are not defeated! This is far from over. Please don't despair. This is a hard fight, fight, but it is FAR FROM OVER! You have a much greater chance of winning than does OM. See, 65% of marriages stay together after affairs, whereas, only 5% of affairs don't crumble within 2 years. This affair will crumble as it is kept out in the sunlight. I would not expect her to agree to marriage counseling right now. She still believes there is hope in the affair. She is hoping to do damage control. You just need to chill out and stand firm against the affair while it goes into free fall.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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there is not the slightest crack in her resolve to end our M and continue the A.
She is set in stone right now, even after her meltdown last night. She is not going to joint counseling of any kind without a major change of heart.
I dont want to give up...but I am not seeing any light at all You just hang tight here. This is going well. You need to focus on bursting her fantasy, so think of ways to do this. I need you to paint a very ugly picture of her future if the marriage does not survive. For example, let her know that if it comes to legal action, you will be suing on grounds of adultery and having the OM subpoeanaed. You will be letting the boys' father know of her affair so he can take steps from protect them from this corrupt man. Paint it as ugly as you can. SHE NEEDS TO KNOW THAT YOU WON'T ROLL OVER. Most WW's fantasize about replacing the husband with the OM in an easy transistion. You will ruin her plans if you paint a picture of ruin and humiliation. In fact, I would insist to her that you both sit down and tell the boys about the affair together. [ this will wake her the hell up] Make the case that since her affair effects them too, leading psychologists suggest that it is bad to give kids false explanations about the tension in the home. It teaches them dishonesty. use some of the facts cited here by Dr Harley: Dr. Harley on telling the children: The same can be said about telling children about an affair. My experience with the positive outcomes of hundreds of families where an affair has been exposed to children has led me to encourage a betrayed spouse not to fear such exposure. In fact, to mislead children, giving other false explanations as to why their parents are not getting along, causes children to be very confused. When they finally discover the truth, it sets an example to children that dishonesty is sometimes acceptable, making them the judge of when that might occur.
An affair is an attack on children as well as the betrayed spouse. And it's true that children are deeply affected by this form of irresponsible behavior. But it's the act of infidelity that causes children to suffer, not the exposure of it. Facts point us toward solutions. Illusion leads us astray. That's true for children as well as adults. here Q: So, you do suggest telling our 10 year old son? Is this more than he can handle? He never saw any real unhappiness as my husband and I had a very low conflict marriage. I have been protecting our son from this truth. He still has hope that his dad is going to come home. ___________________________________ A: As for your son, the truth will come out eventually, even if you get back together again. And your son won't be emotionally crippled if he hears the truth. It's lies and deception that cripple children. He should know that your husband is choosing his lover over his son's mother. It's a fact. He's willing to ruin a family unit all for what.
When I first started recommending openness about an affair, I wasn't sure what would happen. But I did it because I knew it was the right thing to do. Now I know that for most couples it marks the beginning of recovery. The reason that children should know about an affair is that exposing it to the light of day (letting everyone know), helps give the unfaithful spouse a dose of reality. An affair thrives on illusion, and whatever a betrayed spouse can do to eliminate the illusion is justifiable. Mold doesn't grow well in sunlight. here2. How honest should I be about the A? (they are 7 and under)
Tell your children as much as you can about their father's affair, and how it affects you. There are some counselors and lawyers that strongly disagree with me on this issue, but I have maintained that position for over 35 years without any evidence that children are hurt by it. They're hurt by the affair, not by accurate information regarding the affair. Just make sure that you don't combine accurate information with disrespectful judgments. For example, you can say that the OW has taken their father away from you, but you should not say that she is home-wrecker (or worse). hereMy basic approach to life is that radical honesty is valuable on many different dimensions. It keeps us out of trouble, it helps others understand us, and it helps others avoid the same mistakes we have made. Letting your children know the details of your husband's affair would help them in all three areas.
The more your children know about your husband's affair, the more careful he will be to avoid them in the future.
The more your children know about his affair, the more they will understand what you are going through in your recovery (by the way, you are doing very well -- keep up the good work!).
Being radically honest about your husband's affair with your children would also help them avoid affairs themselves. How it happened and how could it have been prevented is a great object lesson for children. I learned that I was vulnerable for an affair when I learned about my grandfather's affairs. The extraordinary precautions I've taken were directly related to what I learned about him.
It's the approach I've always taken, and while it's difficult, especially for the WS, there's much more upside to it than downside.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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well first off, as usual Mel, you are wellspring of hope. The knowledge you share has changed lives.
I finally slept last night. Woke up and realized that I am focused only on my rollercoaster, and not seeing the churn and turnoil of hers. This moring she finally allowed me a glimpse:
"I am so confused, I have to make sure I'm doing the right thing. I can't keep coming back to this point."
In would take this to mean that consequences are starting to be apparent. She is trying to prop up her resolve but reality is giving it a beating. She has acknowledged that DS1 will be "devastated". She looking for the magic way to move ahead w/OM but there isnt one.
I will be working on the ugly picture all day today so that when she gets home, a gallon of gasoline goes into the fire.
BS (me) 49 WW 49 married 6 years dday1 8/23/10 NC 9/3/10 NC broken 12/10 dday2 2/6/11 NC2 3/5/11
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In would take this to mean that consequences are starting to be apparent. She is trying to prop up her resolve but reality is giving it a beating. She has acknowledged that DS1 will be "devastated". She looking for the magic way to move ahead w/OM but there isnt one. I think you can use this to fan the flames of reality that are licking at her feet. Tell her you know that DS1 is very upset and "have you thought about what we will tell him?" "I think we should be telling him the truth about the affair sooner rather than later so he understands the situation." "Psychologists recommend the children are told the whole truth.." And even though she might not agree to do that right now, it will surely be a wake up call! Another suggestion is to get an appointment with Steve Harley for yourself. He will tell you what to say to get her on the phone with him. [usually something like, this counselor wants to get your perspective so he can help me with all this] Once Steve gets her on the phone, he can be very effective in selling her on the prospect of finding that same romantic love in her marriage. He will tell her "wouldn't the ideal solution be to have those romantic feelings WITHIN your marriage?" See, she doesn't believe she can have that within your marriage. He can show her how it can be done. "I am so confused, I have to make sure I'm doing the right thing. I can't keep coming back to this point." Yep! And you thought she was firm in her resolve. She is not! She is about as clear and decisive as a falling down drunk. She will swing back and forth until her alcohol is gone. That is why it is so important for you to keep the heat up under the OM's feet. [you are doing a great job on that, btw!] I will be working on the ugly picture all day today so that when she gets home, a gallon of gasoline goes into the fire. Good man!! And don't allow yourself to despair. Truly, I know this is scary but there is nothing going on here that makes me think this is over. I have seen 10x worse than this do an 180 degree. Everything your wife is saying is a result of her fogbabble.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Mel -
Thank you...I think I see my reality clearly. If I give up, its over. If I do this halfway, its over. Either of these courses of action yields the exact result I fear. Also today I will be pumping up her 4 older brothers - who are squarely on my side - for round 2. Got lots to tell them about OM and the jeopardy this will put their nephews in.
BS (me) 49 WW 49 married 6 years dday1 8/23/10 NC 9/3/10 NC broken 12/10 dday2 2/6/11 NC2 3/5/11
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Mel -
Thank you...I think I see my reality clearly. If I give up, its over. If I do this halfway, its over. Either of these courses of action yields the exact result I fear. Also today I will be pumping up her 4 older brothers - who are squarely on my side - for round 2. Got lots to tell them about OM and the jeopardy this will put their nephews in. The most logical solution for your wife and all concerned is for her to find the love she wants in your marriage. So she needs to understand 2 truths: 1. the affair is impractical and unworkable and 2. her marriage contains her best hope. The trick is to get through the fog and convey those truths.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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