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Originally Posted by Down_in_Az
OK, want to be clear on the "met" comment. We worked together. She was divorcing her husband at that time. She moved into a place of her own, was divorced BEFORE we went on any dates or became romantically involved.

I am sorry that I used the term met incorrectly.

Ok, thank you for the clarification.


Me,BW - 42; FWH-46
4 kids
D-Day #s1 and 2~May 2006
D-Day #3~Feb.27, 2007 (we'd been in a FR)
Plan B~ March 3 ~ April 6, 2007

In Recovery and things are improving every day. MB rocks. smile
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Originally Posted by Down_in_Az
One question I have. Is it common for the offending spouse to make the following comments:

- I am not sure I want the marriage to work
- I just don't have feelings for you right now, and I don't know if I ever will. I need this space to work that through
- The marriage has been broken for a while, but I just never spoke up (much to my surprise and everyone we know)

All... I know I am being naive. But that is why I am here, for cold hard truth and advice.

I will move back in tonight.

This is all straight from the wayward script. We hear this all the time, from every wayward. None of it is shocking, in fact it's getting a bit boring ~ you'd think they would come up with something original, LOL.

Yes, move back home immediately. When she screams at you and asks WTH you are doing, answer "Hi honey, I'm home! Would you like a beer?".

Do not get into an argument with her over it. Your motto is "I want to save our M. I do not want a D. This is my home and I am not leaving again."

Read up on Plan A and exposure pronto. You need to expose in order to kill the A. Once that is done you can attempt recovery, but not until then.


Me,BW - 42; FWH-46
4 kids
D-Day #s1 and 2~May 2006
D-Day #3~Feb.27, 2007 (we'd been in a FR)
Plan B~ March 3 ~ April 6, 2007

In Recovery and things are improving every day. MB rocks. smile
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Yes it is. Its like they all read from the same script. Don't let it get to you. Its called Fog babble. Read up on the articles here and get a copy of Surviving An Affair as soon as you can.

http://www.amazon.com/Surviving-Aff...UTF8&qid=1305140521&sr=8-1-spell


Me DH 39
WW 45 EA/PA LTR
DD2 6 yrs old
Divorced 2000

Cypress


I believe God challenges us with every crisis. Its more than just choosing good over evil, we have to learn and grow along the way.
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Thanks... it is just hard to hear that someone you love (and have loved) has no feelings for you. And they stopped on a dime (Friday before she left for Vegas, we joked about finding time to be intimate). When she came back Monday, the marriage was a wreck and she was ready to bail.

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It was quite a shock when I heard it from my WW. It was like the bottom dropped out of my world. The next day she was almost like her old self. Then a few hours later it was fog babble again. She will go back and forth like this. Its not what she says that matters. Its what she does that counts.

Right now she is pining way for the OM. She will get angry when you move back in. But it is your house, your bed, and your children. Man up and reclaim your territory.

Set some boundaries when you arrive. Women don't like wimpy men. Tell her that the OM is never allowed in your house or near your children. Tell her that you love her and are going to fight for your marriage.

Last edited by PhrogDriver; 05/11/11 02:22 PM.

Me DH 39
WW 45 EA/PA LTR
DD2 6 yrs old
Divorced 2000

Cypress


I believe God challenges us with every crisis. Its more than just choosing good over evil, we have to learn and grow along the way.
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Thanks Phrog. Sometimes you get so lost in trying to do everything "right", you don't do anything right at all.

Our main issue when I was in the house was daily battles about the OM. I tried to point that out to her, but she is not seeing it. It looks like the key to that is staying 100% calm, focusing on love deposits and staying away from Love busters.

Sleeping in seperate rooms normal too? She oftened slept on the couch when I was in the house.

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The script is so very true to form.

Since the youngest is your bio child, the child stays with you if she leaves when you go home. Sounds like the 15 year old will want to stay too. Let it be your W's battle getting him to go with her if she wants it.

Your relationship time frame shows that you likely lived together for a few years since your child is older than the marriage. That sets up what Dr. Harley refers to as the 'renters' mentality and your W has not communicated her lack of needs being met and is looking for a new 'landlord' with a better pad to rent from.

You can study the articles on this site and read the book mentioned earlier. They will all help you collect your thoughts and actions.







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- I am not sure I want the marriage to work
- I just don't have feelings for you right now, and I don't know if I ever will. I need this space to work that through
- The marriage has been broken for a while, but I just never spoke up (much to my surprise and everyone we know)

All Wayward babble taken right out of the cheaters handbook.

Yep grab a 6 pack and prop your feet up in your lazy chair in your home. Announce "IM HOME" with a big smile.
Its time for war are you ready for that? If you want to recover your M it is a war. Make no mistake ITS WAR!
You have to find out more about this OM. Exposure should be the first goal and it should go down like Pearl Harbor did. A Complete surprise and no mercy. But OM Job and friends is vital to Exposure. INTEL in WAR time is vital.
Read up my man your in the fight of your life.


Divorced 11/5/2013
FXWW EA 2005/2008/2010
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Don't discuss the OM (except what I wrote above) or your relationship with WW at this point. It will just piss her off. Move back into the bed room. If she wants to sleep apart, she can move to the couch. She is the one committing adultery. There needs to be a corrective for her actions.

Don't try to lecture her.

There is a Buddhist teaching about detachment. This is a different meaning than you are used to. It does not mean to loose your love for WW.

Sit down, close your eyes, hold out both hands palms up. In one hand imagine holding you worst fear: her leaving you for OM. In the other hand imagine holding the best outcome: WW dropping the POSOM and loving you unconditionally. Each hand holds a very emotional state for you. Now you have to imagine how you feel walking a path between both hands. You are detached from each outcome. You will feel calmer and be able to think better in your current situation.

Last edited by PhrogDriver; 05/11/11 02:37 PM.

Me DH 39
WW 45 EA/PA LTR
DD2 6 yrs old
Divorced 2000

Cypress


I believe God challenges us with every crisis. Its more than just choosing good over evil, we have to learn and grow along the way.
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DIZ, welcome to Marriage Builders. I am very sorry you are in this predicament. The things your wife is saying are very typical. I would not pay any attention to her words.

Rather, develop a strategic plan to save your marriage. And yes this is very salvageable. The first step is to move home without warning and refuse to leave without a court order and an armed sheriff.

Next, expose her affair wide and far. Everyone should be told, all your parents, children, family and friends. Find the om's Facebook page today and copy and paste his friends list into a word doc. Send his friends an exposure letter. (we have samples) if the OM is a state dept employee, you might want to expose to his employer too. Exposure is the greatest weapon you have against the affair.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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In the meantime, you should DEMAND that she end her affair with the OM. Tell her this will lead to divorce and if forced, will file on grounds of adultery and have the OM subpoenaed into court. She would have to turn over her emails and texts and cell phone records in discovery.

When you expose to her family and friends, ask them all to use their influence to persuade her to end her affair.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Expose affiar to the kids as well? Really?

You have to understand my reluctance to the exposure part. Is there a very likely chance this drives a stake in the relationship and it never recovers? Help me to see past the WW getting so pissed they never forgive.

You have to see how mad she was at her sister for telling me. smile

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Originally Posted by Down_in_Az
One child (15 boy) is hers from previous marriage.

9 yo Daughter is ours.

15 year old is very, very angry at her. When we talked about me leaving for a couple of weeks, he turned to her and said: "You did this to me, now you are doing this to my sister".

More details on OM: He lives in New York, was visiting Arizona for a study he was doing (he is a sociologist). She tells me he is actually out of country for 2 years on an assignment (I am fairly certain he works for the State Department). He is not married. Not sure his age.

I bet this is mostly lies. You really need to do a background check on him NOW. I bet is married.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by Down_in_Az
Expose affiar to the kids as well? Really?

You have to understand my reluctance to the exposure part. Is there a very likely chance this drives a stake in the relationship and it never recovers? Help me to see past the WW getting so pissed they never forgive.

You have to see how mad she was at her sister for telling me. smile

The kids should not be lied to in order to cover up her crimes. This is pertinent information about their lives. They should be told all about the OM and encouraged to ask their mother to explain her sleazy, selfish behavior. Lying to kids is poison and only teaches them dishonesty.

Her anger is irrelevant. The goal here is to save your marriage not avoid the anger of a tyrannical bully.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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<p>Dr. Harley on telling the children:</p>
<p>
Quote
The same can be said about telling children about an affair. My experience with the positive outcomes of hundreds of families where an affair has been exposed to children has led me to encourage a betrayed spouse not to fear such exposure. In fact, to mislead children, giving other false explanations as to why their parents are not getting along, causes children to be very confused. When they finally discover the truth, it sets an example to children that dishonesty is sometimes acceptable, making them the judge of when that might occur. </p>
<p>An affair is an attack on children as well as the betrayed spouse. And it's true that children are deeply affected by this form of irresponsible behavior. But it's the act of infidelity that causes children to suffer, not the exposure of it. Facts point us toward solutions. Illusion leads us astray. That's true for children as well as adults. <br>
here </p>
<p>
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Q: So, you do suggest telling our 10 year old son? Is this more than he can handle? He never saw any real unhappiness as my husband and I had a very low conflict marriage. I have been protecting our son from this truth. He still has hope that his dad is going to come home. <br>___________________________________ <br>A:  As for your son, the truth will come out eventually, even if you get back together again. And your son won't be emotionally crippled if he hears the truth. It's lies and deception that cripple children. He should know that your husband is choosing his lover over his son's mother. It's a fact. He's willing to ruin a family unit all for what. </p>
<p>When I first started recommending openness about an affair, I wasn't sure what would happen. But I did it because I knew it was the right thing to do. Now I know that for most couples it marks the beginning of recovery.
</p>
<p><br>
Quote
The reason that children should know about an affair is that exposing it to the light of day (letting everyone know), helps give the unfaithful spouse a dose of reality. An affair thrives on illusion, and whatever a betrayed spouse can do to eliminate the illusion is justifiable. Mold doesn't grow well in sunlight.
  here</p>
<p>
Quote
2. How honest should I be about the A? (they are 7 and under) </p>
<p>Tell your children as much as you can about their father's affair, and how it affects you. There are some counselors and lawyers that strongly disagree with me on this issue, but I have maintained that position for over 35 years without any evidence that children are hurt by it. They're hurt by the affair, not by accurate information regarding the affair. Just make sure that you don't combine accurate information with disrespectful judgments. For example, you can say that the OW has taken their father away from you, but you should not say that she is home-wrecker (or worse). <br>
here</p>
<p>
Quote
My basic approach to life is that radical honesty is valuable on many different dimensions. It keeps us out of trouble, it helps others understand us, and it helps others avoid the same mistakes we have made. Letting your children know the details of your husband's affair would help them in all three areas. </p>
<p>The more your children know about your husband's affair, the more careful he will be to avoid them in the future. </p>
<p>The more your children know about his affair, the more they will understand what you are going through in your recovery (by the way, you are doing very well -- keep up the good work!). </p>
<p>Being radically honest about your husband's affair with your children would also help them avoid affairs themselves. How it happened and how could it have been prevented is a great object lesson for children. I learned that I was vulnerable for an affair when I learned about my grandfather's affairs. The extraordinary precautions I've taken were directly related to what I learned about him. </p>
<p>It's the approach I've always taken, and while it's difficult, especially for the WS, there's much more upside to it than downside.
</p>


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Why don't you call the Harleys?

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DIZ, look at it this way. Your wife is an addict who is high on an affair. If she is angry it isnonly because you have successfully interfered in her affair. That is a WIN, not a loss. I used to get angry when my H wouldn't let me go drunk driving but that was the right thing to do. That is where your focus needs to be.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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We all question telling the kids the truth BUT I have never read where it was the wrong thing to do. The children are upset about it but appreciate being told why the family is fractured.
My own included. It was tough telling them but they have a reason for the huge mess our family deals with vs a vague notion.

And, you tell the children when she is not there. You matter of factly say what is going on. If she is there, she will gloss over it or downright lie or scare them with her reaction to the truth coming out (her hostility or etc).

Last edited by reading; 05/11/11 02:48 PM.
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Yep to the kids too. Why lie about whats happening to innocent children? Be honorable and HONEST. Let her be known for what she is, you havent done anything to deserve this. NO spouse has.
Who cares if shes pissed, you can survive pissed. You CANT survive a WS facilitating back and forth. When the A is exposed many die instantly. Then shes left with reality and no cake to eat. Plan A shows her she can love you. But while the A exists you have no chance at all. KILL IT DEAD> DO NOT BE AFFRAID! Fear has no place here MAN UP. This OM is trying to take your family away from you and your helping him. Doesnt that piss YOU off? Make yourself his worse nightmare. Hunt him down and be relentless. Saddle up the horses boys its time for a man hunt. If you fail in killing this A you will likely lose your WW. Forgive you for what telling the truth to everyone? Who cares if she forgives for now. KILL THE A FIRST its whats taking her away from you NOW.


Divorced 11/5/2013
FXWW EA 2005/2008/2010
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My exWW was the minister of a large Christian church. She was having an affair with a married congregant. I ended up in divorce because I did not expose. The goal for exposure is to bust up the affair.

She will be madder than a wet cat when you expose. She will say some cruel things. Remember you are in the fight of your life. Get on your flak jacket and charge in.


Me DH 39
WW 45 EA/PA LTR
DD2 6 yrs old
Divorced 2000

Cypress


I believe God challenges us with every crisis. Its more than just choosing good over evil, we have to learn and grow along the way.
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