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Anyone else at the school know?



If this district is anything like mine they all know and have been talking about it for weeks. Those that don't know will find out when one of them gets transfered.


Me-BS 41
WH-40
DS-9
DS-6
DS-3

12/2/2009 Discovered WH "Online flirting"
3/17/2010 WH admitted to PA
3/21/2010 WH admitted to 2 other ONS

-We are working on it....
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This is an important concept for a BH in your current position ...

!!! document document document !!! <~~~ *** LINK ***

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MM,

I can't emphasize enough how important it is that you open another account immediately and move all family funds into it. Cancel the credit cards and don't let her have access to the finances. A WW will clean you out.

Also, let her know calmly that you will not lay down in a D. 50/50 is out of the question if the marriage ends because of her affair.

Will that be the likely outcome? Yes, but she doesn't know that. Make it clear that the path towards D will not be easy but the path towards recovery will be better than D.

Let her know that you and DD aren't going anywhere and that you won't permit DD to be taken out of the marital home.

Be calm and cool the whole time. It will freak her out more than you getting mad. Think James Bond.

There are moments for the anger, but be calm right now.

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You have been getting great advice and following it.

It looks bleek now but my experience here on MB shows that the tide is turning even though you can't see it now.

Good job maning up.

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MoveMountains, I rarely post on this forum any more, as I find it very difficult and heartbreaking, but I feel compelled to reach out.

You are my HERO!

Your thread reads much like my entry into Marriage Builders, and I applaud the way you have listened to and followed the advice given by the veterans here. I am convinced that God has put angels on this board and given them names like MelodyLane, Pepperband, maritablbliss and more.

With the tireless strength these people provide - free of charge or obligation - they enable us to do things we would otherwise not have the will or guts to do. In a very short time, you have gone from a stunned, quivering bowl of jello to a man of honor and integrity. I'm proud of you!

No matter how things ultimately turn out, you will be able to look in the mirror and not shy away from the man you see looking back at you.

Good job, MoveMountains. Keep it up!


Preach the Gospel every day. When necessary, use words.
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Hopefully someone does get transferred but I still wouldn't count on the school to do something and continue to hold their feet to the fire.

How are you feeling this morning, MM?


BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011




Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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Good morning everybody. Last night was a wild ride for sure. The WW told me over the phone she would be staying at a hotel - didn't happen. She said she was going to get an apartment today only to call me later from the grocery to ask what deodorant I needed and "oh, by the way I'm not going to sign a big lease, that would be too much of a commitment."

Her encounter with our daughter seemed to have a profound effect on her to focus back on the daughters needs, not mine. I did tell her ahead of time that our daughter needed to know. She disagreed and I said I'm open to suggestions on how to talk to our daughter about it as long as it involves the truth. She offered none.

What she's really pisssed about is that she feels I gave out daughter too many details - I told our D that mommy found a boyfriend and that boyfriend was her boss "X". No more than that. Maybe the name of the person was too much. She says she will never be able to forgive me for that. I told her that I believe I have a place in my heart to forgive her for what she did all summer and that gives me hope that she would have a place in her heart to forgive me for telling our daughter too much in her opinion.

She was a wreck last night - she called it overload. Tired, barely able to communicate and in bed by 8. She slept on an air mattress on the floor of our daughters room. This morning she's seething. BUT some communication had begun - maybe a slight entry into the "Conflict" phase?
My sense is that the next few days are going to be very unpredictable. She's now super mad but understand, her "mad" is not screaming & yelling. Quite the opposite - her mad is very calm with very short cutting comments and stares that are intimidating.
My commitment is to be a loving but firm/confident husband and to continue to make the home a welcoming environment.

Last edited by MoveMountains; 09/02/11 10:22 PM.

Me: 44
She: 38
Married: 11yrs
Children: 8yo daughter
Length of Affair: 6 weeks PA
Currently Plan A
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Perfect - it is following the wayward script exactly. You have a great chance at recovery. Kill her with kindness, look great, smell even better, and Plan A stellar!!!!

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MM,

You're doing great!

When I exposed, I was so scared my W would run out, take the kids, etc.

Marital, Melody - thankfully - snapped me out of by reminding me: she ain't going anywhere! OM didn't want her as his new 'roommate', that would be too much committment, responsibility, etc. for someone just looking for a score...if W wanted to leave, she would've been out of there earlier...plus, IF W DID leave, it would simply clarify who was pro-marriage/family, and who was not, which would make decision-making easier going forward...

My W FREAKED, even grabbed a suitcase....blathered fogbable that she'd 'make my nightmare come true' and go to OMs house...drove to Walgreens that night, spoke to her uncle who reminded her it was HER actions that lead to this...she called her aunt to 'tell on me'...aunt told her: "it's all on you -- YOU had the A, and these are the consequences...if you would've ended this the right way, well...appreciate you have a H who is fighting for you and protecting your family...". She came home an hour later...

Then, that weekend, we went to a family event at our synagogue, took son to basketball game, breakfast on Sunday...that weekend she blustered, I suppose as the pain of the A came to light, and as the A was killed...

Now, 6 months later, I'm posting in recovery forum....we're following MB principles, W is meeting my ENs, following EPs....incredible.

(and, yes, our children - 15 and 12 - know everyhting...)

Keep up the good work!

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Originally Posted by MoveMountains
My commitment is to be a loving but firm/confident husband and to continue to make the home a welcoming environment.

MM, now is the time to tell her what it will take to turn this marriage around. DO NOT LET UP UNTIL YOU HAVE HER OUT OF THERE. Stick with this until you get her out of there. I would have a discussion with her tonight and let her know she has to leave that job. She may tell you to go to hell right now, but you have to plant that seed and be a BROKEN RECORD about it. Let her know you will not settle for less. NO WAY.

I would also strongly consider even moving so you can get your DD into a new school district. Does your DD go to the school the principal is at? Because if she does, you can't put yourself in a position where you and your wife are seeing the OM at school events. That will not work. Only complete and total no contact for life will suffice. Believe me, we are not kidding when we say this step about no contact can't be skipped becuase everytime your wife sees the OM puts her back to day 1 of recovery. The fog comes right back and because she will be triggered, the affair is likely to start up again. She will be perpetually triggered this way.

When you speak to her, be a broken record:

1. you must end all contact with the OM for life, even if that means leaving the job [I suspect Gloveoil is correct, though, and the OM will be fired but your wife's reputation will still be ruined so you might want to point that out and suggest moving to another town]

2. I love you but I will not tolerate any continued contact with the OM

Hammer this message home starting TODAY. And of course you did the right thing in telling your daughter the name of the OM. She has a right to know the name of her enemy. He is a bad man who is harming her family. She needs to know who the fox in the henhouse is. You may have done this, but I would be CERTAIN that your DD understands that adultery is immoral. It sounds like she does know that but I wanted to make sure.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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From the new book by Dr. Bill Harley Effective Marriage Counseling pg 94:

"Granted, there are situations when demands may be necessary in marriage. During a spouse's affair, for example, I recommend that the betrayed spouse demand there be no contact with the lover. If there is continued contact, separation or even divorce would be the logical consequence. While normally demands don't work, in this case there are no reasonable alternatives because thoughtful requests are even less likely to separate lovers."

Originally Posted by Dr Bill Harley
In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure.

<snip>

We don't know if R.J. still sees his lover, but he says he has broken off all contact. In many cases where a person is still in town, that's hard to prove. But one thing's for sure, if he ever does see his lover, it will put him in a state of perpetual withdrawal from his addiction, and make the resolution of his marriage essentially impossible. In fact, one of the reasons he is not recovering after three months of separation may be that he is not being truthful about the separation.
con'd here



How to Survive an Affair chapter in HIS NEEDS, HER NEEDS
p. 177

...I have seen husbands build new and wonderful relationships with their wives but then go back to their lovers after five or six years of what appeared to be marital bliss. When I ask them why, they inevitably tell me they miss the woman terribly and still love her. At the same time they stoutly affirm they love their wives dearly and would not think of leaving them.

I believe a man like this has told the truth. He is hopelessly entangled and needs all the help possible to be kept away from his lover and stay faithful to his wife. I often recommend that a man once involved in an affair come in to see me every three to six months on an indefinite basis, just to talk about how things are going and to let me know how successfully he has stayed away from his lover. He must resign himself to a lifetime without her. HE MUST CERTAINLY NOT WORK WITH HIS FORMER LOVER AND SHOULD PROBABLY LIVE IN SOME OTHER CITY OR STATE. Even with those restrictions the desire for her company persists...


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Hi MM,

Very few respond as quickly to the advice given here. It may seem counter productive at first but has frequently yielded positive result.

Her anger has not diminished. She is spitting mad and will try to undermine you. Be prepared for a roller coaster ride. Continue to stand up for your marriage.

Right now your wife will not respond to declaration of love for her or any sane advice. She is an alien. Win her back by meeting her emotional needs. She may not respond, but she will remember. This part is Plan A. This continues for approximately six months or until your taker gives up. Then Plan B kicks in.

OM is a public figure and can be exposed to the parents in his school. I guess the next step is to warn these if the the school council does not react.

There was a case in England where the headmaster lost his job after his wife found him cohabiting with another teacher.

Be aware that this may well end the same way. This might also explain the reluctance of OM wife to support you.


But I, being poor, have only my dreams; I have spread my dreams under your feet; Tread softly because you tread on my dreams -Yeats
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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Hammer this message home starting TODAY. And of course you did the right thing in telling your daughter the name of the OM. She has a right to know the name of her enemy. He is a bad man who is harming her family. She needs to know who the fox in the henhouse is. You may have done this, but I would be CERTAIN that your DD understands that adultery is immoral. It sounds like she does know that but I wanted to make sure.

MelodyLane, first thanks for the support & guidance. My daughter has been amazing in understanding right from wrong. She has been amazing in understanding what WW did was wrong. She said to me "Daddy, I'm glad you told me because the truth is the only way it works." Brilliant! But it's hard to hear her say "Daddy I'm going to ask for a magic bag for Christmas then I'm going to use the magic to put everything back to the way it was." ugh...

I have had a hard time coming to terms with the reality of the job thing. I get it & agree that's it's required - no argument. I just have anxiety about saying that when I know she will say it's not an option. She thinks the marriage is over and the actions now are to get our daughter to a good spot with it. So that may mean not moving out for now, trying to play nice, etc.

I also see no remorse in her. I can understand her being mad, etc but it would just seem that there would be some empathy from her. Very hard.

Finally she said the A was a result of the state of the marriage. In effect, things were over before the A happened. Which is strange to me considering we tried to have another baby for 14 months prior, went on a family trip that was great, etc. While she may not have been getting her EN met properly (which I take responsibility for) she certainly wasn't checked out. I wasn't dead to her.
So ok, I have Plan A in full effect - great. Should I be pushing for discussions, dialogue, counseling sessions - in other words isn't it time for us to be talking? If so my sense is the first conversation should be about trust.


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She: 38
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Originally Posted by MoveMountains
I also see no remorse in her. I can understand her being mad, etc but it would just seem that there would be some empathy from her. Very hard.

There will be little to no remorse from most WW while there is still ANY contact at all. She is still taking hits off the crackpipe and furious that you are trying to take it away.

Originally Posted by MoveMountains
Should I be pushing for discussions, dialogue, counseling sessions - in other words isn't it time for us to be talking? If so my sense is the first conversation should be about trust.
Move, I fear that you aren't understanding the importance of NC. There will be no meeting her needs or ANY improvement here until you get her away from OM. If she even glances at him in passing at school, she will stay triggered and you will just be banging your head against the wall. That's why Mel is telling you to hold her feet to the fire in terms of demanding NC. You can't get to Step 2 when you haven't accomplished Step 1 yet (100% NC!)


Ddays 2007 and 2011
Plan B 6/21/11
Divorced July 2012
2 kids
How to Plan B Correctly
Parallel Parenting in Plan B
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Quote
What she's really pisssed about is that she feels I gave out daughter too many details - I told our D that mommy found a boyfriend and that boyfriend was her boss "X". No more than that. Maybe the name of the person was too much.
What she's angry about is that you told DD anything.

You did great, MM. She absolutely should know the name of the bad person who did so much damage to her family. If someone had tried to burn down your house, would you hide the arsonist's name? Nope. The situation is the same. Only the crimes are different.

Last edited by maritalbliss; 09/02/11 11:11 AM.

D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!

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I also see no remorse in her. I can understand her being mad, etc but it would just seem that there would be some empathy from her. Very hard.

Finally she said the A was a result of the state of the marriage.
She's not going to show remorse right now. She's got to defog. While she's in the fog it's going to be all about her and how mean you were to take her drug away.

She's alien right now, MM. Hang in there - get NC established and you'll be pleasantly surprised at the difference.


D-Day 2-10-2009
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Thank you Marriage Builders!

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I've got some practical advice and some general attitudes you need to pick up.

Practical:

If your WW goes ahead with moving out, then separate your finances immediately and cancel any joint credit cards. Today.

If she gets a lawyer and pursues legal separation, then get yourself a lawyer pronto. You cannot "share" a lawyer and come up with a mutually agreed upon separation agreement, you have to have someone looking out for YOUR interest.

This is important because separation agreements or temporary orders set a precedent and have a way of becoming permanent in the court. If you settle for 50/50 custody now, it will be exceedingly difficult to get more when you go to divorce court.

General Advice:

Avoid all relationship talk now. She is in the "fog" and is mad as a hornet. Any relationship talk will degrade into how horrible you were before the affair in order to justify her actions. Do not try to educate her, state your case, beg, plead, or cajole. Simply state "I am fighting for my marriage", then show her with your best plan A actions, not words.

Do not apologize for exposure, even to your child. You did what was necessary to save your marriage.

Do not look for remorse, have no expectations at all of getting your emotional needs met. That was the biggest shocker of all in a lot of cases, the WS gets caught in ADULTERY, but usually isn't remorseful.

Just clean up your side of the street, meet her EN's as well as you can or are allowed to, and stay away from relationship talk.

Trust and other issues can be addressed when plan A (or B) has worked and your wife is ready to commit to working on the marriage. She isn't close to there, yet.

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MM,

Just to echo what Marital, Susie are saying....becasue they needed to say the same thing to me...

There is no step toward recovery if those 2 work together.

In my situation, I can pinpoint the exact turning point away from the A and toward recovery -- the day OM was fired from the jobsite after I exposed.

Once he was gone, my W turned back toward our M, our family...started to have her head clear, defog.

Not only did I notice, the kids notice....but also, I asked sevral months ago if she felt she was in withdrawal, or when she felt that she had 'woken up' to what she was doing...my W still references THAT MOMENT, not having OM at job, when she "snapped out of it" (her words) and knew she had to do the right thing and recommit to our marriage, or go and be on her own if I chose to end the M....

Thanks.

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Originally Posted by MoveMountains
[

I have had a hard time coming to terms with the reality of the job thing. I get it & agree that's it's required - no argument. I just have anxiety about saying that when I know she will say it's not an option. She thinks the marriage is over and the actions now are to get our daughter to a good spot with it. So that may mean not moving out for now, trying to play nice, etc.

I understand she will say it is not an option NOW. But that will change very soon here. And you need to set the stage NOW and let her know that this is the ONLY condition under which you will stay married. [trust me on this, your marriage is DONE unless she ends contact] As the affair goes into a free fall she will start looking to you. Right now she is under the impression that you will settle for ANYTHING and you need to quickly disabuse her of that notion.

That means you tell her she has to agree to never see the OM again for life or this will lead to divorce. And then you paint a very ugly picture of a nasty divorce that is filed on grounds of adultery.

Quote
I also see no remorse in her. I can understand her being mad, etc but it would just seem that there would be some empathy from her. Very hard.

I would not expect to see any remorse from her at all. She is still drunk on the affair and angry that you took her booze away.

Quote
Finally she said the A was a result of the state of the marriage. In effect, things were over before the A happened. Which is strange to me considering we tried to have another baby for 14 months prior, went on a family trip that was great, etc. While she may not have been getting her EN met properly (which I take responsibility for) she certainly wasn't checked out. I wasn't dead to her.
So ok, I have Plan A in full effect - great. Should I be pushing for discussions, dialogue, counseling sessions - in other words isn't it time for us to be talking? If so my sense is the first conversation should be about trust.

Oh no. You don't have conversations about trust, etc with a falling down drunk. You get them sobered up FIRST so you can have conversations. That is what I need for you to do.

Place ALL your focus on getting her away from the OM. Nothing else matters right now, because if you can't get her away, there is no reason to have any conversations because this is hopeless. Hopeless. Recovery is impossible unless she NEVER sees the OM again. You need to be a broken record and don't shut up until that is achieved.

You have come this far, please don't throw it all away because you are worried she won't leave the job. You need to push for it and PUSH HARD. Point out to her TONIGHT that her reputation is ruined at that school and that the only way this will ever work is if she ends all contact with the OM. If she says she wants a divorce, then AGREE that is the only option if she will not end contact with the OM.

Don't let up before you have this in the bag, my friend!! You are doing so good. Don't let all your good work go to waste without getting your marriage in a position where recovery is even possible.

check out this radio clip with a BH and Dr Harley: click here


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by MoveMountains
[She thinks the marriage is over and the actions now are to get our daughter to a good spot with it. So that may mean not moving out for now, trying to play nice, etc.

She is trying to get your DD to a "good spot" about destroying her family over an affair?? I would explain to her that that is an unrealistic goal and if it is her goal to sell your DD a bill of goods that you take issue with that. Your DD will never get over divorce. Kids are permanently scarred over divorce and adultery.

Does she expect you and your DD to sit by while she carries on her affair and takes her time to move out?

For your wife's reading pleasure:

An Exploration of the Ramifications...nia State University College of Medicine

� Divorce is an intensely stressful experience for all children, regardless of age or developmental level; many children are inadequately prepared for the impending divorce by their parents. A study in 1980 found that less than 10% of children had support from adults other than relatives during the acute phase of the divorce.

� The pain experienced by children at the beginning of a divorce is composed of: a sense of vulnerability as the family disintegrates, a grief reaction to the loss of the intact family (many children do not realize their parents� marriage is troubled), loss of the non-custodial parent, a feeling of intense anger as the disruption of the family, and strong feelings of powerlessness.

� Unlike bereavement or other stressful events, it is almost unique to divorcing families that as children experience the onset of this life change, usual and customary support systems tend to dissolve, though the ignorance or unwillingness of adults to actively seek out this support for children.

� Early latency (ages 6�-8): These children will often openly grieve for the departed parent. There is a noted preoccupation with fantasies that distinguishes the reactions of this age group. Children have replacement fantasies, or fantasies that their parents will happily reunite in the not-so-distant future. Children in this developmental stage have an especially difficult time with the concept of the permanence of the divorce.

� Late latency (ages 8-11): Anger and a feeling of powerlessness are the predominate emotional response in this age group. Like the other developmental stages, these children experience a grief reaction to the loss of their previously intact family. There is a greater tendency to label a �good� parent and a �bad� parent and these children are very susceptible to attempting to take care of a parent at the expense of their own needs.

� Adolescence (ages 12-18): Adolescents are prone to responding to their parent�s divorce with acute depression, suicidal ideation, and sometimes violent acting out episodes. These children tend to focus on the moral issues surrounding divorce and will often judge their parents� decisions and actions. Many adolescents become anxious and fearful about their own future love and marital relationships. However, this age group has the capability to perceive integrity in the post-divorce relationship of their parents and to show compassion for their parents without neglecting their own needs.

Conclusions
� Divorce and its ensuing ramifications can have a significant and life-altering impact on the well being and subsequent development of children and adolescents.

� The consequences of divorce impact almost all aspects of a child�s life, including the parent-child relationship, emotions and behavior, psychological development, and coping skills.

� There is a significant need for child mental health professionals, along with other child specialists, to be cognizant of the broad spectrum of possible fall-out from a divorce and then to provide sufficient support for children of divorced parents in all the necessary psychosocial aspects of the child�s life.

[u][i][b]Abuse Risk Seen Worse As Families Change[/b][/i][/u]

- Children living in households with unrelated adults are nearly 50 times as likely to die of inflicted injuries as children living with two biological
parents, according to a study of Missouri abuse reports published in the journal of the American Academy of Pediatrics in 2005.


- Children living in stepfamilies or with single parents are at higher risk of physical or sexual assault than children living with two biological or adoptive parents, according to several studies co-authored by David Finkelhor, director of the University of New Hampshire's Crimes Against Children Research Center.

- Girls whose parents divorce are at significantly higher risk of sexual assault, whether they live with their mother or their father, according to research by Robin Wilson, a family law professor at Washington and Lee University. . . .

- The previous version of the study, released in 1996, concluded that children of single parents had a 77 percent greater risk of being harmed by physical abuse than children living with both parents. But the new version will delve much deeper into the specifics of family structure and cohabitation, according to project director Andrea Sedlak.



"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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