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I see.... but if he only admitted it .. but she has no "hard proof" to back up her claims when she exposes. Couldnt he just claim shes crazy? (if he hasnt already).
I guess we should ask. Do you have hard evidence of the affair other than him admitting it to you? Oh no, she does not put off exposure at this point. His admission is proof. That is plenty of evidence and she needs to run with it.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I see.... but if he only admitted it .. but she has no "hard proof" to back up her claims when she exposes. Couldnt he just claim shes crazy? (if he hasnt already).
I guess we should ask. Do you have hard evidence of the affair other than him admitting it to you? Oh no, she does not put off exposure at this point. His admission is proof. That is plenty of evidence and she needs to run with it. Ahh .. ok then .. If HIM leaving the job is possibly not an option in the OP eyes .. then she would have to come up with something to get OW out of the company somehow. I guess threats of exposure to OW wouldnt work... yeah .. OP has to expose ASAP to get rid of her .. and take the chance that both her hubby and the OW lose their jobs since a threat of exposure will only allow them time to whitewash it and turn it on OP. Wow.... tricky situation with all 3 at the workplace. Best case scenerio is hubby keeps job .. and OW looses hers.
Last edited by MrNiceGuy; 11/30/11 05:24 PM.
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Ahh .. ok then .. If HIM leaving the job is possibly not an option in the OP eyes .. then she would have to come up with something to get OW out of the company somehow. I guess threats of exposure to OW wouldnt work... yeah .. OP has to expose ASAP to get rid of her .. and take the chance that both her hubby and the OW lose their jobs since a threat of exposure will only allow them time to whitewash it and turn it on OP.
Wow.... tricky situation with all 3 at the workplace. It's not tricky at all, really. If HR knows about the affair, they can pull up their email and cell phone records and verify for themselves. As long as they know, they can watch the affairees at work and keep them separated UNTIL one or both of them are gone. They may even transfer or fire one of them. That will help UNTIL the OP and her H get jobs elsewhere or one or all are transferred. Telling HR will bring it all out in the open and give them a chance to separate them. Working together is NOT an option.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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POM, I've read your whole thread up to this point. Sorry you've had occasion to come here, but welcome to MarriageBuilders.
I'm also sorry to be writing to you as a man who got into an emotional affair, and kept it a secret, for a time at least, such that I allowed myself to get infatuated; and in such situations, emotional affairs become physical affairs. It happens to people whom you'd never have thought it'd happen to (I mean, I'd always been an upstanding family man, never the sort of "scumbag" who'd have an affair, right? I didn't even have major issues in my marriage, or so I'd have told you then.) Until suddenly, in the face of a bit of fawning attention from someone, I became exactly such a scumbag -- nice suit, crisp tie, clean-cut, and inside I'd become a scumbag all the same. And it doesn't take long at all... From a time when I'd never had a single remotely-questionable conversation with the other woman, to the time when I was in a full-blown affair, it took less than 2 months.
My point for you in relating the above is that it's a grave mistake to regard an emotional affair as any less serious than a physical affair. Given proximity and opportunity -- both of which abound in your husband's case -- emotional affairs become physical. An emotional affair is just a "baby affair" that hasn't grown up into a full-scale marriage-eater yet. All that's missing is time, and it doesn't require much. If you want to save your marriage, you'd better treat this as if it's THAT serious. Because it is.
But you have a problem that my wife didn't have once she learned of the affair: The problem is, your husband doesn't think it's THAT serious.
See, when my affair got busted by the other woman's husband's private investigator, the affair had already been going on for 2 & a half months, and physical for half of that. There was no minimizing it. My wife & I each had no choice but to take it seriously. She had no leeway for self-denial, and I'd put myself into a situation where if I wanted to save my marriage, I had to break it off, keep it broken-off, end the deception & stop lying to my wife & stop lying to myself.
BUT your husband is still lying to himself if he thinks he didn't have an affair. He's lying to himself if he tells himself it's not that serious. And he's lying to you if he tells you any of that. And his cutting off, rather than increasing his transparency toward you -- in terms of blocking you from his accounts, etc. -- is a dead giveaway, red-flag  that his mindset remains wayward. If he tells you they're not in contact, without opening up & proving it to you, then you'd be a fool to believe him. Remember, I know waywards -- because 3 years ago, for an awful 2 & a half months, I was one.
For crying out loud, he's been caught red-handed, in writing, professing how he's falling in love with another woman. That is almost as f*d up as it needs to get when it comes to affairs. All that's left is for one of them to pay cash for a hotel room, so that it doesn't show up on the credit card statement. Deep down, he knows this is wrong. If he didn't think so, then he wouldn't be upset to have you reading his love-notes with the other woman. If those communications were so innocent, then why the coverup? Surely he would welcome the chance to get all the communications out in the open, to prove his innocence, right? The fact that he's reacted as he has, tells you all you need to know.
So you need shock & awe to change his way of thinking.
You need to expose the affair to family members. His AND hers. You need to expose it to their supervisors. With your written evidence if you still have it. And you need to expose it to mutual friends, clergy, coworkers -- anyone whose esteem your husband values.
And you need to tell him what my wife told me on the day I confessed my affair -- see 2nd quote below, in red text. You need to make clear that, even if he wants to lie to himself about how serious this is, you are not willing to lie to yourself or be willfully blind to where he is headed. You need to tell him that you love him so much that you're not willing to tolerate for another single minute this crazy risk he is taking with your marriage & your family.
I'm not sure how he'll react. But I think your odds of having him snap to are better if he realizes that he can't fool you, can't snow you, and can't lie to you any longer. Simply put, he needs the bucket of ice-water on the head, to help him realize that he's out of second chances and that he's at a point in his life where he truly needs to decide what kind of man he'll be remembered as, by those whom he professes to care most about.
And if he walks away, rather than agree to change his ways, to live transparently, and to resume actually being the man he's only been pretending to be lately -- then he won't have been worth having around anyhow.
Me: FWH, 50
My BW: Trust_Will_Come, 52, tall, beautiful & heart of gold
DD23, DS19
EA-then-PA Oct'08-Jan'09
Broke it off & confessed to BW (after OW's H found out) Jan.7 2009
Married 25 years & counting.
Grateful for forgiveness. Working to be a better husband.
"I wear the chain I forged in life... I made it link by link, and yard by yard" ~Jacob Marley's ghost, A Christmas Carol
"Do it again & you're out on your [bum]." ~My BW, Jan.7 2009
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- they only met outside of work twice, supposedly. Once was a coincidence but they spent at least 1/2 hour together and were not alone - my kids and her kids were all there (playing together - how lovely).
- the second time was on DDay. I found out he was planning to meet her that day, we discussed it and he went to go tell her that I knew and that it was done (supposedly) So sorry to tell you that I highly doubt this was *just* an EA. Secret meetings? That is a HUGE red flag that the relationship went physical...already. And waywards meeting to "end" things almost usually always = sex. This is important for you to understand (1) so that you are careful about STDs and (2) so that you are aware of the risk you run of OW getting pregnant. Please listen to the others about exposure and doing whatever you can to bust this up NOW. I realize that your WH may have sworn on a stack of bibles that this was only an EA but please understand waywards LIE. When there has been any recent contact, you have to just expect that.
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Should I wait until I make a plan? I'm starting therapy (for myself - he won't go) next week... should I wait until then? Why are you going to therapy? Have you been diagnosed with a mental illness that requires therapy? Because the only problem you've got that I can see if that your WH is having an affair. You can go to therapy until the cows come home and it won't change a thing, if you're going because he's having an affair.
D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!
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You say he seems like he is coming around .. but that should not stop you from CONFIRMING .. all the while you do a good PLAN A. pretend like its all ok while you gather your goods! The only reason he appears to be 'coming around' is because he's cake-eating. He's convinced Pieces to shut up about the affair, and she did. Now he gets the luxury of having his needs met by both women without his wife getting angry about it. He is NOT 'coming around'.
Last edited by maritalbliss; 11/30/11 07:01 PM.
D-Day 2-10-2009
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Isn't it possible that this relationship didn't run that deep yet? Isn't it still possible to move on without all the drastic job quitting, divorce threatening measures? Or am I fooling myself because I so badly want to believe it wasn't "that bad"? My FWH met his skank online, talked for about 2 days via texts, met 2 days the next week, met for sex 2 days the week after that. He was "in love" with her the next week. Affairs move fast.
Last edited by LuvsDavid; 11/30/11 07:02 PM.
Me -BS 40
Him - FWH 34 (dtl)
3 D-Days from 12/25/10 to 01/06/11
NC - 01/09/11
02/20/12 done beating my head on that wall.
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Should I try to gently ask him to open up once more before I pull out all the stops on snoop mode? Don't discuss the affair with him at all. Plan A with everything you've got. And snoop like crazy! Have you read about Plan A? here VAR = Voice Activated Recorder. (Although I'm getting caught up on your thread, so this has probably already been answered.) Don't get the cheapest one. Try WalMart or Radio Shack.
Last edited by maritalbliss; 11/30/11 07:06 PM.
D-Day 2-10-2009
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We agreed that he would tell me each and every time there was necessary work related contact with her or if he saw her, spoke to her, etc due to work requirements. I asked him on Monday he said there was none. I did not ask about yesterday. You're asking a lying wayward to tell you the truth about something? And when he answered, did he pinky swear that he was telling the truth?  Your WH is wayward, Pieces. Waywards lie. It's what they do. He told me he left a very lovey email to her open on his PC at home for hours one day just to see if I would catch him. He told me he could not keep up the deception and that he was "bad at it". Please refer to my previous comment about waywards lying.
D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!
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I would possibly (if i was her) try to get the HR going on a sexual harassment lawsuit suggestion, to get OW to "disappear". There does not appear to be anything in her sitch that would be cause for a sexual harassment lawsuit. However, if Pieces makes her outrage clear that the employer allowed a permissive atmosphere to pervade the workplace, allowing the affair to flourish, she may have grounds for a lawsuit based on a hostile work environment. I would go this route with your employer, Pieces. Does your employer have anything posted regarding discrimination in the workplace, Pieces? They are required to have it posted in a prominent place. Do they have an employee handbook? Does it make any reference to workplace affair or dating between employees?
D-Day 2-10-2009
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POM, from the questions you've asked here, it seems clear to me that you're not realizing something very important to know about the nature of affairs: Affairs are closely akin to addictions.
Read that again.
In their brain-chemistry impact, the infatuation of an affair -- the euphoric dopamine "rush" that an affairee feels from prospect of the no-strings attention & affirmation given by the affair-partner -- is little different from that of crack-cocaine.
In other words, your husband is a junkie. Just like I was when I was in my affair.
--Can you talk a junkie out of being a junkie?
--Can you reason with a junkie?
--Can you successfully ask a junkie to stop lying to you in order to keep getting his/her fix?
I don't know the answers to the above questions scientifically, but anecdotal evidence seems to be that it's mighty darned hard to do so if they're allowed to stay in contact with the junk. And if you interfere with junkies' getting their fix, they get surly & hostile toward you. They shut down toward you. Don't they? Hasn't he?
So, your idea of "gently asking him to open up" is not going to work at this point. Until he's gone through withdrawal completely & his head has cleared, he will see your soft-pedal approach simply as his having dodged a bullet, and he'll likely resume looking intently for ways to keep getting his fix. His fix of the other woman's attention.
Even if he hypothetically has a lucid moment when he has the best of intentions, he is likely to try to at least keep the door open for more of his fix at some point in the future, until he confronts the seriousness of what he's doing, and/or is forced to slam that door shut. Either way, for your marriage to heal, he must implement a strict practice of "no-contact" with the other woman, ever, for life, period.
About halfway through my affair, my wife had gotten uneasy about the other woman & about how much time I was spending with her, practicing music. (Yeah, that's how it started... it was that innocent.) Of course, by the time my wife & I had this conversation, the other woman & I were no longer just merely rehearsing music... we were also having conversations, sharing confidences increasingly, and building an emotional bond that I never should have tolerated, much less welcomed.)
Well, when my wife expressed her concerns, I told my wife (1) that nothing untoward was happening, and (2) that I'd stop being alone with the OW to practice music if it made my wife uncomfortable. And although I didn't admit to my wife at that time the fact of my attraction to the other woman, deep down I was indeed aware of where this inappropriately close friendship could well be heading -- and I even made a half-hearted effort to break it off. But because I was already a junkie, already infatuated, I chose not to slam that door shut. So I soon resumed taking her calls, and we resumed e-mailing each other. The affair rekindled with a vengeance. It went all the way physical, and almost cost me my marriage to the best woman on the planet.
I'm not going to say here that I don't mean to scare you, because I do. It's better for you to be scared now, and to act accordingly now to save your marriage, than to find yourself like my wife found herself, wanting to collapse into a sobbing heap, 4 or 5 weeks from now when you find out that the affair has gone all the way.
I know you don't deserve to be in this spot. No, it's not fair that your husband has put you into this spot. It's not where you wish to be. But you can't save your marriage now by acting as if you were where you wished to be. You are where you are, and you need to act based on this reality. You need to be calm, you need to stand firm for your family, by showing your husband a steel resolve that he can respect. You need him to know that you care for him & for your marriage & for your family too much to stand for the path he's on.
P.S. You might wanna get the book "Surviving An Affair." Our marriage counselor put us onto it in the days after my affair. My wife & I will both tell you, it may well have saved our marriage.
Me: FWH, 50
My BW: Trust_Will_Come, 52, tall, beautiful & heart of gold
DD23, DS19
EA-then-PA Oct'08-Jan'09
Broke it off & confessed to BW (after OW's H found out) Jan.7 2009
Married 25 years & counting.
Grateful for forgiveness. Working to be a better husband.
"I wear the chain I forged in life... I made it link by link, and yard by yard" ~Jacob Marley's ghost, A Christmas Carol
"Do it again & you're out on your [bum]." ~My BW, Jan.7 2009
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I would possibly (if i was her) try to get the HR going on a sexual harassment lawsuit suggestion, to get OW to "disappear". There does not appear to be anything in her sitch that would be cause for a sexual harassment lawsuit. Maybe not sexual harassment, but it appears from what she said before that she does have significant leverage at work if she chooses: No position of authority over her. However, I do suspect that if the right people at our employer got wind of this, they would do everything in their power to separate the two of them because this is a very volatile situation here at work. It's a ticking time bomb and they would know it.
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Maybe not sexual harassment, but it appears from what she said before that she does have significant leverage at work if she chooses:
Quote:No position of authority over her. However, I do suspect that if the right people at our employer got wind of this, they would do everything in their power to separate the two of them because this is a very volatile situation here at work. It's a ticking time bomb and they would know it. Um, yes. That's what I said - it was in the rest of my post that you cut off: However, if Pieces makes her outrage clear that the employer allowed a permissive atmosphere to pervade the workplace, allowing the affair to flourish, she may have grounds for a lawsuit based on a hostile work environment. I would go this route with your employer, Pieces.
D-Day 2-10-2009
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Thank you Marriage Builders!
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Um, I was merely commenting that she herself says it's a powderkeg, so the threats of a lawsuit don't even seem required, not that she couldn't go that route. But from her post it sounds like exposure to the "the right people at [their] employer" would be quite effective.
Last edited by Deacon_Blues; 11/30/11 08:47 PM.
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Um holy crap. I am totally terrified now. The gross feeling in my gut is back and it's because I know that you are all right.
He's fine because he's cake eating...
Here's the thing about the evidence... you guys are going to kill me... I let him delete it. I had screen shots of all the emails and key logs and we sat down together and I agreed to let him delete them so we could "move forward" and start from scratch. Right now the only hard evidence I have is phone records from that time frame.
I know what I can do about work. I can force it so that they are separated however, it does call attention to our marriage in the workplace being an issue and one of us will probably have to go too...I would think.
Do I threaten him with it first?
I see how this could be an addiction and working in the same building would be an issue and this would never end. Do I gather more evidence first and then confront him again and lay it all down or do I just come out with it now?
I will go read Plan A now...maybe all the answers are there.
I think the big red flag for me is that I so badly don't want to go buy the VAR because I'm afraid I WILL get something...very soon.
Don't you guys think that if I expose at work to the extremes you are suggesting that he'll just turn and run out of sheer humiliation? I can't see saving our marriage if I out him like that at work... there's just no coming back from that...
GloveOil thank you so much for your side of the story... such insight...
Trying to stay calm and not flip on him right now...he's right here next to me...
Me: BW (34)
Him: WH (38)
3 kids: 7, 3, & 7 mos
Married 7 years
DDAY #1 - 11/8/2011 (EA)
DDAY #2 - 12/6/2011 [unconfirmed possible 2nd A]
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Here's the thing about the evidence... you guys are going to kill me... I let him delete it. I had screen shots of all the emails and key logs and we sat down together and I agreed to let him delete them so we could "move forward" and start from scratch. Right now the only hard evidence I have is phone records from that time frame. Thats ok! You have his confession. That is good enough. When you expose him at work, they can access their email accounts and get all the hard evidence they need. I know what I can do about work. I can force it so that they are separated however, it does call attention to our marriage in the workplace being an issue and one of us will probably have to go too...I would think. It will call attention to the grossly irresponsible, unprofessional behavior of your WS and the OW. One of them will likely have to go. Do I threaten him with it first? Oh no. That would be crazy and foolish. That is like handing your battle plan to the enemy. You need to expose without warning. Did you read my Exposure 101 thread? NO WARNING and expose to everyone on teh same day. I see how this could be an addiction and working in the same building would be an issue and this would never end. Do I gather more evidence first and then confront him again and lay it all down or do I just come out with it now? Expose the affair to the OW's husband, your families, the children and the workplace. You don't need more "evidence" to prove to him what he already knows. You tell him he finds another job or he needs to move out. I will go read Plan A now...maybe all the answers are there. I just gave you the answers. I think the big red flag for me is that I so badly don't want to go buy the VAR because I'm afraid I WILL get something...very soon. I would get a VAR, put spyware on his phone and computer tomorrow and then plan the exposure on Friday. That way when the affair goes into freefall you will have all of your intelligence in place. Don't you guys think that if I expose at work to the extremes you are suggesting that he'll just turn and run out of sheer humiliation? I can't see saving our marriage if I out him like that at work... there's just no coming back from that... You have it backwards. Your marriage cannot be saved as long as he works there with the OW. Hopefully, he is very humiliated. HE SHOULD BE!!
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Is it ok to not want to know if this went physical?
Me: BW (34)
Him: WH (38)
3 kids: 7, 3, & 7 mos
Married 7 years
DDAY #1 - 11/8/2011 (EA)
DDAY #2 - 12/6/2011 [unconfirmed possible 2nd A]
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Ok read the Exposure 101.
I think I already did most of that when I confronted them at work.
It was a very public exposure and confirmation of the affair when I showed up there. He was VERY angry.
They were both ambushed by it too, no warning was given.
Me: BW (34)
Him: WH (38)
3 kids: 7, 3, & 7 mos
Married 7 years
DDAY #1 - 11/8/2011 (EA)
DDAY #2 - 12/6/2011 [unconfirmed possible 2nd A]
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Is it ok to not want to know if this went physical?
Not knowing works fine for all of that.
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