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Originally Posted by twocents
I actually stopped talking about it, probably 6 months ago - to him. Because I could see the damage it was causing. But honestly, sometimes it was just me needing to vent the steam that is all still inside. I wouldn't talk about it in a way that would accuse him but rather talk about how I am having a rough time and cannot get past the imagery. Its like I want an alternate reality.

Venting keeps us angry, though. It doesn't do the opposite.

How much UA time do you get each week? How effective is he at meeting your emotional needs? Do you know what they are?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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We actually spend a LOT of time together. we have no kids, so every single evening and all weekend is usually spent together in activities that have a lot of UA. We talk, we email each other and text each other. We talk about feelings on things, laugh together etc - we've actually built a pretty great friendship. We worked through the sheet and meet each others needs.
But unfortunately, I still resent him.

On the surface it is all great. In fact, he might be shocked to learn that I still feel this vehemently on the past.
But I am haunted by dreams as well as triggers of anything and everything that reminds me of her. Anything that has to do with physically perfect women makes me think of her. Unfortunately the media is full of them. Its like the whole physical perfection thing is so idolized in our world and feels like its always in my face laughing at me, cause it is creating a negative reminder.

Anytime I hear him use phrases that he used in his diary, its a trigger. And many many other such things.

I started wondering if I truly have a problem and will never be able to recover.
I have also felt very alone.

Many women have (very unfortunately) had to live through their husbands affairs. But not so many have seen videos of passionate sex that took place, or read their husbands thoughts (literally) about how incredible this experience was for them and about how they would lie awake at night dreaming about OW, or even make love to their wife and not be able to climax until they thought about OW.
No matter how many love bank points he deposits, I can never tell if he still thinks about her when with me.
it truly has given me a complex.

That's why I feel so much despair. Even though we have followed the program and built a great marriage, I do not feel my feelings and stress decreasing at all. I simply don't talk about them anymore, but they are still raging like the first day.
I don't think about it ALL the time. but enough to make me miserable.

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Originally Posted by twocents
Or maybe there is such a thing as a little too much damage. I have way too many traumatic images/words/and even videos in my head that have been burned into my mind.

Maybe...idk

My exWH was a serial cheater which is why I'm divorced so that does not fit your situation. A#1...I found out hurtful details but NOTHING in black and white like I had with A#2. Seeing and reading the garbage from WH to OW2 was very, very different **to me** and all the more damaging.

Sorry for your pain twocents.


BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011




Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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Originally Posted by black_raven
Originally Posted by twocents
Or maybe there is such a thing as a little too much damage. I have way too many traumatic images/words/and even videos in my head that have been burned into my mind.

Maybe...idk

My exWH was a serial cheater which is why I'm divorced so that does not fit your situation. A#1...I found out hurtful details but NOTHING in black and white like I had with A#2. Seeing and reading the garbage from WH to OW2 was very, very different **to me** and all the more damaging.

Sorry for your pain twocents.


black raven, I haven't read your story, but did you try to work things out and then basically find out that you couldn't handle the resentment, or did you just decide to call it quits right off the bat?

What hurts is that seeing the relationship we have now, I keep wishing that we had built it before A ever happened and almost feel like its a little too late now.

And seriously, some things burned into a woman's mind cause create big permanent damage. It is CRAZY what some of these wonderful husbands of ours a perfectly capable of feeling (and doing) behind our backs.

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Originally Posted by twocents
We actually spend a LOT of time together. we have no kids, so every single evening and all weekend is usually spent together in activities that have a lot of UA. We talk, we email each other and text each other. We talk about feelings on things, laugh together etc - we've actually built a pretty great friendship. We worked through the sheet and meet each others needs.
But unfortunately, I still resent him.

Would you say you have created a romantic marriage, though?

What do you do in your UA time?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Okay,
I will pipe in and say....diaries and the comments in it.....not that unusual. So, know that.
Also, the PTSD, common. You are not alone in the breadth of your experience.

Being betrayed sucks.

Trying to survive it sucks.

Trying to recover is the toughest thing of all. It takes steely resolve and only you can decide if you will put the effort into it without a guarantee.

What you are going through, others have gone through. Not all others who have been betrayed, but many, many, many.

How do you want the rest of your life to be?







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Originally Posted by twocents
Originally Posted by black_raven
Originally Posted by twocents
Or maybe there is such a thing as a little too much damage. I have way too many traumatic images/words/and even videos in my head that have been burned into my mind.

Maybe...idk

My exWH was a serial cheater which is why I'm divorced so that does not fit your situation. A#1...I found out hurtful details but NOTHING in black and white like I had with A#2. Seeing and reading the garbage from WH to OW2 was very, very different **to me** and all the more damaging.

Sorry for your pain twocents.


black raven, I haven't read your story, but did you try to work things out and then basically find out that you couldn't handle the resentment, or did you just decide to call it quits right off the bat?

What hurts is that seeing the relationship we have now, I keep wishing that we had built it before A ever happened and almost feel like its a little too late now.

And seriously, some things burned into a woman's mind cause create big permanent damage. It is CRAZY what some of these wonderful husbands of ours a perfectly capable of feeling (and doing) behind our backs.

On Dday#1, I told my WH to get out, Plan D/FU. I already had a lot of resentment towards him so his A was adding insult to injury. Exposure, WH chucked OW under a bus, huge personal and professional fallout. I did not shield my WH from any consequences...in fact I ran him over quite a bit myself. Decided to attempt R (kids being a giant factor). There was trickle truth of about three months until what I consider Recovery. Then I found MB.

Dday#2 w/ a different OW, really???? I was not interested in Recovery. Many things going on during that time and D was not filed right away. We moved away from the affair state and he wanted to try and win me back...but that did not go well and it re-affirmed my decision to go with Plan D.

Some of the things I read from A#2 are seared into my brain and I don't see myself forgiving him for them anytime soon...if ever.


BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011




Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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That reminds me, b_r, did you post about DDay#2 here? I remember you were gone for a long time, or at least on SAA.


One year becomes two, two years becomes five, five becomes ten and before you know it, you've wasted your whole life on a problem you can't solve. That's one way to spend your life. -rwinger

I will not spend my life this way.
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Originally Posted by karmasrose
That reminds me, b_r, did you post about DDay#2 here? I remember you were gone for a long time, or at least on SAA.

No I did not post about Dday#2. My WH posted briefly. I was gone doing Plan WTH/D/WTH? rcoaster


BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011




Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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twocents, I don't want to hijack your thread. Whether you want to try MB/R or D both are difficult and suck along the way. How long were you married before this affair started?


BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011




Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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OK I have a question here. What about Radical Honesty in this instance? Shouldn't two cents come clean with her FWH and tell him how she feels. Shouldn't she point out EXACTLY what triggers her including words and phrases from the diary. I don't know what would help with the seeing models part. But isn't she obviously decieving FWH by pretending they have a great marriage when she is on the verge of walking away?

Twocents are you doing any individual counselling?


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How radically honest is he? Has he answered all your questions? You refer to feeling like he's lying to you a lot...a main exception to the "don't talk about the affair advice" is if you haven't had all your questions answered honestly and fully. If he is sugar coating his emotional involvement with OW it is not to protect YOU who is obviously still in pain, but to protect him. Therefore it does not fit with just compensation.

Also, are all the momentos of his affair gone?

And who have you exposed the affair to?

Finally, given the sexual curiosity your WH felt compelled to act out...where did that come from...pornography? Was/is that a problem? Also, since the Internet was used to facilitate his affair, do you have sufficient EPs in place that you don't feel vulnerable to a repeat? A last finally, since he obviously did not respect your comfort with sexual experimentation, have you been able to implement POJA or are you left feeling like the next time you don't give him what he wants he'll just go elsewhere? (and be careful letting your guard down to keep the peace...there have been women roped into swinging to please WHs.)


Me, BS: 35
WxH: 36 "HAM" Hearts a mess
6yo DS (with WxH), 9 and 12yo DDs from first marriage
Discovered DH's affair in June, 2011
"I'm not having an affair, you're crazy." major gaslighting
Served with divorce papers on 2/3/12
Divorce final 7/29/2013
Living day by day, counting my blessings, loving my children
Personal Recovery well underway!
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Originally Posted by BetrayedP
OK I have a question here. What about Radical Honesty in this instance? Shouldn't two cents come clean with her FWH and tell him how she feels. Shouldn't she point out EXACTLY what triggers her including words and phrases from the diary. I don't know what would help with the seeing models part. But isn't she obviously decieving FWH by pretending they have a great marriage when she is on the verge of walking away?

She can bring up triggers and discuss how they need to be removed, but she shouldn't be talking about her feelings about the affair. That makes the problem worse. And she shouldn't deceive her husband, of course. No one asked her to pretend like she has a great marriage. WE asked her to take steps to achieve a great marriage.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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2cents, I know you mentioned that you have stopped talking about, but I found this quote where Harley mentions this issue to a BW: [who has PTSD, by the way!]

"Stop talking to each other about your husband's affair, and start learning to avoid disrespectful judgments and angry outbursts. It makes it harder to put the past behind you when you talk about it. You bring the past into the present and relive the tragedy whenever it's discussed."


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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lots to answer here..

There was no exposure really. Something I regret. Some people knew about it (people we don't associate with anymore) but not our families and such. Families are far away and we aren't very close. I delayed telling people until i was going to be certain it was truly over between us, but then he came back and then I didn't want anyone to know of these horrible things in my marriage. Wrong, I know.
It would be so strange though, 2 years later to suddenly reveal all of this to everyone we know, when it is already in the past, no?

yes, we've built a romantic marriage. Not just good friends but great sex and intimacy. Unfortunately even with all of that, sometimes I feel stressed and unable to cope with thoughts of what happened.

Yes, I don't feel great about not talking about these feelings to him and actually WANT to, but how can I when they directly revolve around the A that I should not talk about.

we were married for about a year before A. I'm still relatively young (not 30 yet). I want to have kids one day and be married and happy. Sometimes I think our foundation is all screwed already, even though I do love him and we do have a great relationship now. But I think sometimes, we have all this time together now - kids will be a BIG responsibility and what if he strays again? I don't think I'd be able to stomach it.

Yes, I do realize that D will be just as hard. There are times thought that I still wonder if its the better option and a better chance at happiness where I might find a husband one day whom I do not look at and see visuals of him going at it with another woman. i do wonder that even with the rebound we've had, if I deserve better and to find a way to move on while I am still young and we are not tied with children yet. I would have had them by now, but A threw a spin on everything and now I don't fully trust my life with him anymore. Yes, he has been doing everything to make things great now. I can't think of a single thing he could be doing better (short of inventing a time machine to undo the past). There are days I think we can make it and be happy. Other times though, I still feel rage and want to yell at him to just go and live with his mistakes and that I want to move on and find someone in life who will never ever do this to me.

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Less than a yr of marriage before cheating (and five yrs of it too) with no kids...I tell people to walk away. That two yrs later you are still plagued with vivid memories from SEEING their sex acts (most BSs do not have to live with that) and reading his words...I would walk. You are young. *I* would not have stayed.

I would expose to your family for support no matter what you decide. It is not your burden to carry.


BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011




Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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2cents,

I'm so sorry for your pain.

Married a short while before the adultery started, no kids---Dr. Harley might be asking you your logic for staying. He understands and supports divorcing a spouse for adultery, because it's the most painful thing he could have done to you. BUT if you want recovery, then MB has the best path to that journey.

People stay in their marriages post-adultery for lots of reasons: children and long history are just a couple of those reasons. Some couples own property and/or business(es) together, which makes divorce more complicated. And so on....

Do you think you can give this two full years following moving into recovery? If your husband can give you Just Compensation and you end up with a marriage that is better than ever, with all Extraordinary Precautions instituted, fully transparent life, so that adultery can never happen again, would it be worth staying?

It would be best to delay having children until your H demonstrates that he is safe, that he is in love with you and meeting your emotional needs very well, avoiding love busters.

One of those extraordinary precautions should be Internet access only when you are present. You can do that at home, but at work, it's out of your range. Maybe a keylogger at work, if company security doesn't prohibit.

If you decide to keep working on recovery, give yourself time--a full two years. People with a lot to get over can take even longer, up to five years.

You already know about avoiding talking about the affair, because talking about it brings the horror of the past into the present and is terribly depressing.

Do you have other enjoyable, engrossing activities you can work on when the mind movies start? Recovering would require you to find a way to deflect thinking about it. The thoughts will come into your mind, but you will need to find a way to avoid dwelling on it, if you want to recover.

Have you and your H completed the Marital Problems Analysis ?



Married 1980
DDay Nov 2010

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**edit**



Many couples rocked by infidelity choose to reconcile because children are involved. You have no children, so your husband chose you for you alone, because what he had with the other woman was one-dimensional. His relationship with you is so much richer and deeper, meaning you blow her away on so many levels including physical intimacy.

**edit**

I hope others can give you concrete advice on how to deal with them, but know you are much more woman than the OW and your husband's choice backs that up!

Last edited by Fireproof; 10/12/12 09:37 AM. Reason: TOS rem,oving link and non-MB advice
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Originally Posted by schtoop
**edit**

Posters on this board need to be careful when they contradict Dr Harley's professional advice. What is troubling her is the affair, not the fact that she read a diary. It would be more troubling if she didn't know the facts about the affair. Dr Harley is adamant that the spouse know everything about the affair because not knowing is more harmful. We have scads of cases here where BS's stay stuck for years because facts have been withheld from them. Illusions do not make people happy or secure, they simply cause them to make poor decisions because they are ill equipped with the facts.

Originally Posted by Dr Bill Harley
The first step, complete separation from the lover and eliminating the conditions that made the affair possible, requires a complete understanding of the affair. All information regarding the affair must be revealed to the betrayed spouse, including the name of the lover, the conditions that made the affair possible (travel, internet, etc.), the details of what took place during the affair, all correspondence, and anything else that would shed light on the tragedy.
here

Last edited by Fireproof; 10/12/12 09:38 AM. Reason: removing quote

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by twocents
WH is getting tired of me bringing it up, in fact he absolutely hates me ever mentioning her and would be perfectly happy never thinking or talking about her again

ooh boy, this is another huge problem. Every time you bring it up, you make yourself and him miserable. Don't talk about it again. This will keep you resentful for years if you do this and it will drive a wedge between you and your husband.


I think being unable to talk about one's gripping pain with one's spouse is a sure resentment builder. Especially if the hurting spouse already feels deeply inadequate.

There must be a way for 2Cents to release and express her pain/grief without being *punished* by her husband. I am of the opinion that the spouse without PTSD needs to step up to the plate, and make the effort to comfort their hurting spouse.

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