I am 99% sure that I'm not missing anything here. All the symptoms of withdrawal are there... but it could be depression or an extreme "quarrelsome nagging wife".. I just can't figure out what is going on inside here head but I am very certain that there is not much/any contact with the OM.

I think that a VAR might be a good idea to find out what she is saying to her friends... I really don't think I will find much.

From what I can tell, my wife is simply depressed and making my life a living hell. Her friends are an escape.. she drinks in house alone and talks to her female friend about drinking. She is not happy with her life, tell me that all the time, tells me it is my fault all the time.

Given that they are not really communicating, they don't see each other (1000's of miles away)... I can either prevent future trips or I can go and be by her side the entire time... I can further expose the affair but after all this... how long can this fantasy really last in her head if so few emotional needs are being met? how long do I give this plan A? She has other friends of the opposite sex... so I think she will just move on the the next one if she really wants to. We never had these problems though in our marriage when she was in love with me. She has gone for years without talking to any of these people.

When will you be doing the exposure?

Sir distance isnt a factor.
Many w aywards move thousands of miles away. One guy on here had his wife move out of the country to be with her affair partner.

I can do exposure now.. I have close friends & family email addresses. I'm thinking that if I do it.. I should go big... I'll engage legal support etc.. How do I get facebook contacts? Is there any way to contact Dr Harley directly to make sure this is the right thing before I spend all the time and money? I'm happy to spend whatever it takes to make sure this is all done professionally and is 100% the right thing to do.

Again... with this particular guy.. he has not much to lose and I can make life miserable for both of them, but I know that when I do, my wife might just move on to another opposite sex friend that has nothing to lose & no respect for marriage. She was looking for an escape from our marriage. This is more about us than about them.

Within the first year of us dating, I asked her to move away from all this crap and she did to be with me. I married her after 5 more years of her staying away from it. She had always been nothing but faithful to me.

The main reason that I think exposure is a good idea is a) to show her how far and deep I am willing to go to save our marriage b) as a means of holding her accountable to be faithful going forward and c) getting support from family and friends for our marriage and driving away those that don't.

You dont need legal support for exposure.
just read the thread Exposure 101 in MelodyLane signature and follow those instructions.

There is no need to spend money, contact Dr Harley or obtain legal support. If you read my exposure thread, you will see Dr Harley's quotes along with instructions on how to expose. He has already explained his position on exposure so contacting him to ask what he has already said is a waste of his time and yours.

You can "what if" the situation to death. This particular guy IS a problem TODAY so he should be dealt with. If your WW finds a replacement for him then you will find out after getting rid of THIS guy first. And if your wife is into being a serial cheater or simply refuses to ever protect your marriage then you are better off without her.

I agree that you need to be strategic but that does not mean that you need to over think every reaction your wife may have. All waywards are anger and bitter with blame shifting towards the BS. That is to be EXPECTED.

Drunks are always angry at being cut off.

Unless you want a marriage that will always be filled with a third party, you need to take action and expose the loser OM to people of influence in both your WW and OM's life. That is how you kill the fantasy...with reality.



I think that you are in denial over no continued contact. They have just gotten smarter at hiding it from you. That is textbook wayward.

Read the exposure thread.
Stay cool and calm. Women love a strong man who will fight for them..

We can post radio clips of Dr. Harley saying affairs must be exposed (even if they are ended or in the past), we can refer you to our most experienced posters such as MelodyLane who have walked others through exposure thousands of times, etc etc.

But really, that's all unnecessary.

The TOS of this forum require that advice given be consistent with Dr. Harley's principles on marriage building and recovery. If any of us were saying anything in contradiction to what the man himself would tell you, the mods would delete the errant advice. Happens all of the time when people decide to offer their own non-MB advice to posters in situations like yours.

Nothing can make this process easier and the more you talk to people around you, the more they will discourage you from doing this. Friends, lawyers, therapists...most of them have little or no experience in the rather specific process of saving marriages from infidelity. The people here (and Dr. Harley) handle thousands of different cases per year (notice the over 60,000 members of this forum, most of them being other betrayed spouses seeking help).

No guarantee here. this is just the best shot you have.

OK.. I'm not worried about her being mad. She is already so mad.. why do I care? I have read exposure 101 and I'm ready to do it. I can have it done by the weekend.

What I am worried about is how/if she will retaliate... how will she hurt the kids? She is already using the kids against me at every turn to express her anger. What if she goes to an attorney and claims abuse or something like that.. don't women do this all the time to retaliate against their husbands?

I would also like to prevent her from going on the next trip. If I forbid the kids to go, can I legally do that? they are both our kids.. who has say over whether they are allowed to leave the state? She can always go by herself, but she will not leave without the kids.. and if she does, the locks are simply changed before she gets back. This is where I want a legal opinion. Anyone with experience with this?

Other posters can advise you as to if she can legally remove the kids from your home without consent. There are lots of people with practical experience her on that.

I can tell you that if they are older children, you must expose the affair to them as well. If they know what is happening, it will very much limit what your wife can do to them, because they will be armed with the truth.

Additionally, I would recommend installing a call recorder app on your smartphone (most are free) as well as wearing a VAR when you are around your wife. She could try to file a restraining order or domestic abuse charge, but she will not be expecting you to be taking these precautions, and having your interactions recorded will help exonerate you in any legal proceeding based on false allegations.

You can get a really good VAR from somewhere like Walmart or Radioshack for about $50. You can do that today.

She could but again you are getting sucked into "what ifs" again. If there are no police reports or anything of that nature, it is simply a claim. People can say all sorts of things, it doesn't mean they are true and that they will be believed. On a personal note, not all women cry abuse and retaliate against their husbands. As a woman, your comment is insulting. I hope this is not how you speak to your wife.


If you change the locks, she can still gain access to the house. You can try to lock her out but she can force the issue as you have no legal basis to deny her access. Generally one parent can take the children out of state without the other's permission. In a pending divorce, that would be another story. You should consult and attorney in your state so you understand your rights and can make informed decisions. Many attorneys offer a free consultation. You can also look up your state divorce code online. Even with an attorney consult, I recommend anyone to look at the code for himself and not simply rely on what the attorney says.

x 2

If WW has full access to your marital funds you should look at moving funds so she can't make a money grab either.

No one should be insulted.. woman can and some do this under the advice of their attorneys.. it's an unfortunate fact. I have seen it with other men going through divorce. The laws are stacked against men and against marriage unfortunately which is a real fear and it makes this hard. The other fact is that my wife is now completely irrational and abusive to me. She verbally abuses me, she has hit me, she emotionally abuses me, she steals money. She asks me for things and money just seconds before having sex. She tells my kids that I steal from them, I lie, and I take their toys. After all this, she completely gaslights me by saying that this is what I do. This is my reality. Of course I cannot say that to her because it would be a "disrespectful judgement"..

While I am off working to support my family, my wife sits at home and cheats on me. When I get home from work she abuses me relentlessly.. I don't hate her, and I'm not bitter.. but I despise her actions and I find no excuse for it but please understand what I am going through. I understand the "fog".. but someone that would treat someone they promised to love like this is capable of anything with no empathy whatsoever... that seems to be the other ugly, scary fact that I'm up against.

This post is not intended to be a venting session... but I need advice for a man going through this. I have two boy's and they need their dad to be around on the other end of this.

I do understand and you aren't telling posters anything they don't already know. Axe and I gave you advice on the questions you asked. Giving us yet another round of describing your wife's abuse is not helping anything. We get she is abusive and doesn't care.

got it.. and the VOR's are a good idea. I will carry one all the time now.

VAR's... sorry.