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There could easily be a man in her life too and this H would never know. The only affair proofing done here was to decide she is 'not the type' - We've all been there.

Pen - there are many unhappy wives on the verge of leaving who would be thanking god for your enthusiastic and responsive attitude. If there are strangers on the internet who can see clearly that you would do anything to create change - she knows it too.

Yet she has demonized you so badly you take a joke about us calling you Satan Incarnate seriously. Seriously!

If she is STILL going in spite of your offers to do anything she is going to someone else!

That's not the end of your story though.



Last edited by indiegirl; 05/25/15 01:34 PM.

What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Thank you for all your support, I realize I need to just pick myself up because you are right, I feel terrible about all my poor deeds, and I couldn't even recognize a joke made with good intentions. I need to laugh a little bit and not be so wound up so tightly.

Indiegirl, thank you for your comment, I�m glad I�m on the right track. I have read about 2000 pages worth of my wife�s� books in the hopes of understanding her better.

She still has access to my credit card and amazon accounts, and it appears she's ordered a book/workshop on how to prepare herself for a new relationship. It's a self-help guide***EDIT***

***EDIT*** it appears my wife is looking for that high of falling in love again. She�s dead set on a fresh start and I�m in her way. It is kind of interesting, or alarming, what this book is essentially saying about falling in love, and the realities of love through time. I�d be curious to hear what you folks think.

Anyhow, you guys were 99% right. She�s looking to be with someone else, and perhaps my wife can be considered being knee-deep in an emotional affair with her idealized man. Which appears to be tougher to fight an ideal/dream vs. a physical OM. At least one has a presence I can attack.


Last edited by Ariel; 05/25/15 04:03 PM. Reason: Removing link.
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Originally Posted by indiegirl
If there are strangers on the internet who can see clearly that you would do anything to create change - she knows it too.

If she is STILL going in spite of your offers to do anything she is going to someone else!

That's not the end of your story though.

I gave this more thought, you are right... as hard as it is, and as flawed as I am, I am 100% committed to change, yet she still wants me at the curb. Her mom is a big source of support in my efforts, and I am grateful for her. I made a video of us, and all our loving past, and posted on our Facebook page a few days ago (in the hopes of rekindling our lost love). Over 70 of our friends like it, with many comments about how this is a true declaration of love, her friends brought to tears, her friends commenting how her husbands should take notes, and how inspiration it was. Then she deleted it from her page today... It broke my heart...


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Originally Posted by penumbra
. She�s looking to be with someone else, and perhaps my wife can be considered being knee-deep in an emotional affair with her idealized man. Which appears to be tougher to fight an ideal/dream vs. a physical OM. At least one has a presence I can attack.


Oh keep looking! Get that PI on the case. You'll find something easy to beat down.



Originally Posted by penumbra
***EDIT*** it appears my wife is looking for that high of falling in love again. She�s dead set on a fresh start and I�m in her way. It is kind of interesting, or alarming, what this book is essentially saying about falling in love, and the realities of love through time. I�d be curious to hear what you folks think. vs. a physical OM. At least one has a presence I can attack.


She's being a teenage girl at the moment. Another typical symptom of the wayward wife.

Originally Posted by penumbrae
page a few days ago (in the hopes of rekindling our lost love). Over 70 of our friends like it, with many comments about how this is a true declaration of love, her friends brought to tears, her friends commenting how her husbands should take notes, and how inspiration it was. Then she deleted it from her page today... It broke my heart...


You can't make any love bank deposits if there is an active affair and her responses make me fear very much that there is. Typically the wayward wife is dismissive and hostile to attempts, she refuses to even enjoy the flattery.

Essentially she behaves as though married to someone else and you are the OM. Offended.

But something like what you have done here, attracting the approval of all WILL resonate with her on some level. But an unexposed affair is like a fantasy - it is idealized love a wayward will do anything to protect.


I will eat my hat if there is not a guy. A real guy.



Last edited by Ariel; 05/25/15 04:08 PM. Reason: Editing quote

What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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That link you have there is pure nonsense - psychbabble aimed at people who need to hear just exactly what they want to hear. You're right though. She IS preparing for a new relationship. With someone specific!

I can tell you as someone who got divorced as a result of the most awful abuse (infidelity, financial infidelity and fraud) that I wasn't ordering cute books with vague psychbabble about relationships as I was busy freeing myself from the marriage.

I didn't have it in me to even contemplate a new relationship as I divorced! Never met any genuine divorcee who did. It would have been like running a marathon with a broken leg.

People who jump into relationships straight away upon divorce had them lined up before leaving the marriage.



What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted by indiegirl
I can tell you as someone who got divorced as a result of the most awful abuse (infidelity, financial infidelity and fraud) that I wasn't ordering cute books with vague psychbabble about relationships as I was busy freeing myself from the marriage.

I didn't have it in me to even contemplate a new relationship as I divorced! Never met any genuine divorcee who did. It would have been like running a marathon with a broken leg.

People who jump into relationships straight away upon divorce had them lined up before leaving the marriage.

Ditto Indiegirl & thank you putting it so spot on. Exactly what I am in the midst of going through right now with my WH. Within 1 week of separation he told me he still loved me and would do anything he could to get me back & 15 minutes later he was Private Facebooking another woman to arrange a date. Now he's dating a married woman while I'm strategically finalizing the D. I'm sure a day will come that I might be interested in dating, but I want to heal me and challenge myself through career first.

Pen you have to get the PI, the evidence, expose, then PB that will define your future. I'm not going to lie it's tough getting to the PB as you have already experienced some tough times, but rest assured, PB is heaven sent & you will feel like you've regained a part of yourself that has been lost. Follow the advice of the veteran posters and you will find happiness whatever it may be.


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BW
DDay 11/2013
Began MB Seminar 7/2014
H quit MB Seminar 10/2014
Filed for D 11/17/2014
PB 12/18/2014
D 07/29/2015
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**EDIT**

Last edited by Denali; 05/26/15 07:00 AM. Reason: TOS
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Originally Posted by JBD
**EDIT**


No ruling out an affair is the first, not a secondary priority.

If there is an affair then nothing that this poster does to reassure his wife will work. I would not advise him to spend months wasting his time when it can be checked out in a few days.

Are you seriously advising someone who has heard ILYBNILWY not to snoop for an affair?

If she were truly abused and fearful, she wouldn't want to leave him. The psychology of an abused wife makes it very difficult for them to leave. We've all tried to persuade abused women to leave their unremorseful husbands and its impossible. They stay even when they are not offering a Plan like this poster is.

When they are adamant about going and deaf to a Plan, it could be that her lovebank has run dry out of neglect (not abuse though) - but it's far more commonly due to an affair.

Last edited by Denali; 05/26/15 07:01 AM. Reason: removing quote

What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted by Dr Harley
I've seen so many spouses lie about affairs, that when one spouse wants a separation, my best guess is that he or she is having an affair. I'm right almost every time.

Why would anyone need to be alone to sort things out? It makes much more sense to think that being separated makes it easier to be with their lover. Granted, there are many good reasons for a separation, such as physical or extreme mental abuse. But of all those I've seen separate, most have had lovers in the wings.


Originally Posted by Dr Harley
When all forms of spousal neglect are grouped together, we find that it is far ahead of all the other reasons combined that women leave men. Surprisingly few women divorce because of physical abuse, infidelity, alcoholism, criminal behavior, fraud, or other serious grounds. In fact, I find myself bewildered by women in serious physical danger refusing to leave men that threaten their safety.

Simply stated, women leave men when they are neglected. Neglect accounts for almost all of the reasons women leave and divorce men.
...........

A woman doesn't leave the man who has invited her into every room of his house. That's because she doesn't stand outside the rooms of his house feeling like a stranger. She is welcomed into his entire home as his cherished life partner.

Last edited by indiegirl; 05/26/15 06:13 AM.

What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Would an abused wife's first self help book purchase be finding out about a new better love life? I don't know what her marriage was like, but I lived (as a child) in an abusive marriage. My mom didn't kick my dad out until the abuse looked liked it was going to start coming to me or my sister. She improved her financial situation, did everything she could to firm her own foundation before she finally separated. She didn't have the time or energy to worry about another woman's perfect life or try to find new love until we were safe.

An affair has to be ruled in or out as an affair changes the plan of action. I don't think anyone is saying that he doesn't need for the love buster to stop. If he is having angry outbursts, he needs anger management (something he may want to do irregardless of what his wife is doing) since AO help no one anytime.

Gathering information to know what is really going on will help make the next steps the most effective in trying to save this marriage.

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Have you hired a PI?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Have you hired a PI?

Yes, and after a week and a half of surveillance, it turns out it's inconclusive if there is an OM. PI put a gps tracking device on her car, and monitored her activities and routes, and she was going to the same places (work, home, and daycare) every day. On the weekends when I have our son, wife goes to the market, home, and that's it.

Should I get another PI? or is it safe to say there is no OM? If there is no OM, what would the veterans suggest I do at this point?

Since I last posted, I have backed off on any types of convincing, persuading, and even the appearance of either. I've been busy working on myself, but do take the opportunity to show her my care and affections in the form of care packages, funny emails/texts, and have gone on 2 walks with the wife and our son, and a positive 20 minute phone conversation. I'm trying to create an environment conducive for love to rekindle. I avoid talking about our past, or our relationship, and I can see my wife enjoying the moments. HOWEVER, she'll go home and think about the past, and she'll become VERY cold again the next day. She'll go through these cycles where she'll purposely reject and threaten divorce, to when we'll joke about our current situation and we'll laugh about it. I have a feeling she's got this image/story of me that she's built up over time, and that's her justification for leaving me; My job is to dispel that image/story through positive and consistent actions. I've worked around the house on all the things she's asked me to do in the past, but I haven't told her i've done them (built her a mediation room, garden, hung pictures, painted some rooms etc). I didn't want to tell her and be construed as me pressuring her.

I recently negotiated with my work to give me flexible hours with opportunity to work from home so I can spend time with my family. They are 110% supportive and are rooting for me. However, when I told my wife this, she got really upset, since I gave up a promotion as a result (which she's right, the "old me" would have taken the promotion, but I know better now. What's the point of more money if I have no family). She said she didn't want to be responsible for me passing up a promotion. Then she threaten to divorce again and hiring lawyers instead of mediation. I told her I cannot control her actions, and I can only control mine, and my action now is to be the best loving husband and father I can be. That's it.

Am I on the right track?

Thank You

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I would continue to do your best to meet her needs while showing her your changes. You are doing a great job, btw!! At the same time, stay diligent with your snooping. Its possible she is not having an affair, but it is also possible that a) her OM lives in another city or b) is married like her girlfriends boyfriend and they are being very careful. Do you have access to her phone bill now?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
I would continue to do your best to meet her needs while showing her your changes. You are doing a great job, btw!! At the same time, stay diligent with your snooping. Its possible she is not having an affair, but it is also possible that a) her OM lives in another city or b) is married like her girlfriends boyfriend and they are being very careful. Do you have access to her phone bill now?

Thank you for the support!

Yes, i have access to her phone bills and laptop. nothing unusual there, and checked all phone numbers. Mom in law also assured me that there isn't anyone else. She said my wife's also very stubborn, and she just needs to soften her heart so she can see the changes i'm willing to make together. I know I am the only one making the effort to save this marriage, and the rejections are wearing on me. I just need to stay positive, and think of the end goal: a reunited, loving family for our child and for each other.

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Originally Posted by penumbra
Yes, i have access to her phone bills and laptop. nothing unusual there, and checked all phone numbers. Mom in law also assured me that there isn't anyone else. She said my wife's also very stubborn, and she just needs to soften her heart so she can see the changes i'm willing to make together. I know I am the only one making the effort to save this marriage, and the rejections are wearing on me. I just need to stay positive, and think of the end goal: a reunited, loving family for our child and for each other.

That is exactly the right approach. But I want to assure you that your MIL is not a good source of information about a potential affair. A parent is the LAST PERSON to find out after the betrayed spouse. No one calls up their parent and tells them about their affair unless the parent is corrupt. And in that case, a corrupt parent is going to cover up for her child.

Just keep an open mind and be on the watch. Keep doing what you are doing by making yourself a very attractive option.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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If her mother thinks you're a great catch and doing everything right, it's even more likely there is a hidden reason no one knows about.

I think you're doing everything right if she is not in an affair. However it still has some strong symptoms of affair, rather than just withdrawal.

Since the PI found no physical affair, I would ensure you use a keylogger on her devices to rule out emotional or long distance affairs. It's the easiest thing in the world for a woman who stays home a lot to fall into one of these. Cell phone records and cursory glances at email would never pick up, for example, a FB affair with an ex which started as chatting.

If nothing else the keylogger would pick up some more clues as to her state of mind.


Please make sure! Keep doing what you're doing as you do.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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I'm keeping on track to be the best husband and father. I've noticed my wife saying this a lot "It's too little, too late."

The good thing is I think she's seeing the positive changes, but I'm not sure how I should take her feelings that it's "too late." Do folks come around from that position? My wife has always been very obstinate. That's why I love her smile

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Originally Posted by penumbra
I'm keeping on track to be the best husband and father. I've noticed my wife saying this a lot "It's too little, too late."

The good thing is I think she's seeing the positive changes, but I'm not sure how I should take her feelings that it's "too late." Do folks come around from that position? My wife has always been very obstinate. That's why I love her smile

Many people start from that place, so don't let it bother you one bit! Just stay the course.

Do you have the MB radio app? You will gain an amazing education listening to that evry day. It will give you a new paradigm about marriage. [and its free! :)]


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by penumbra
I'm keeping on track to be the best husband and father. I've noticed my wife saying this a lot "It's too little, too late."

The good thing is I think she's seeing the positive changes, but I'm not sure how I should take her feelings that it's "too late." Do folks come around from that position? My wife has always been very obstinate. That's why I love her smile

That phrase used to be a Major Trigger for me. No matter what I did, or how caring I was, still continuously trying to win back the affection from my Wife, that was one of her stock phrases, along with ber saying, "It hurts me that I see you trying so hard, But....."

In my case, it was due to her 1st of multiple affairs.

What do you do then?

You just get up each day and keep on trying, doing the best that you know and learn how to.

LTL

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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Many people start from that place, so don't let it bother you one bit! Just stay the course.

Do you have the MB radio app? You will gain an amazing education listening to that evry day. It will give you a new paradigm about marriage. [and its free! :)]

Okay, thank you! I didn't know about the radio app, i will listen to it from now on. thanks!

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