How should I handle it if I'm feeling bad about something unrelated to my spouse and have a need to talk to him about it, and he says he has a need not to talk? Following the PoJA, I shouldn't talk, right? But what can I do to deal with my feelings, especially now that I'm feeling hurt that he didn't want to talk about it, as well as still feeling bad about the original problem? And this is happening during UA time?

smallpeace, was your husband saying he didn't want to talk about THAT subject or he just doesn't want you to talk at all?

Well, one of the first things to say is that UA time should be enjoyable. Therefore, you shouldn't really be attempting to talk about something you feel bad about.

Was the subject something that could have spoiled your UA time?

I realise that there is another issue - that of whether you should talk to him at all about something that matters deeply to you, that he does not want to talk about - but let's deal with UA time first.

PS - what happened about your email to Dr Harley?

Your husband puzzles me, and I don't think you went all out to rule out an affair.

He talked to me about it for a while, but kept trying to change the subject as we were talking. Then he said he just didn't want to talk about it anymore, and wanted to spend our time doing something more enjoyable to him.

The subject was just some insecurity issues I have involving other things in my life and wasn't something that would have spoiled our UA time for me, since intimate conversation is one of my needs and makes me feel closer to him. It's not something I talk about very often. But it was spoiling the UA time for him.

SugarCane, I never emailed Dr. Harley. I appreciate your advice to do so and see how it might help, but I feel uncomfortable with the idea of being on the radio show.

I guess I didn't go all out to rule out an affair. I looked at his cell phone record and didn't see any unusual numbers, and I asked him directly if he was having an affair. I don't think there's any way he could be having a physical affair, since I can account for most of his time. I guess an emotional affair is possible, but if that's happening, the other woman is completely unknown to me.

He did the right thing in politely telling you he wanted to change the subject. You both need to get into the habit of informing the other person when the conversation becomes unpleasant. You need to make sure your conversation is mutually enjoyable. Don't let your feelings get hurt when he tells you this, because it is important information. You won't know to change the subject if he doesn't tell you.


First off, asking him if he is having an affair is never an effective approach. I am unsure why you would rule out a physical affair, though. Is he with you 24/7? Even the dumbest cheater can hide a physical affair.

An emotional affair is just as damaging and you need to FIND OUT IF HE IS HAVING AN AFFAIR. You are wasting our time and yours if there is an affair that you have not uncovered.

How do I not let myself get hurt? I can't help feeling like he doesn't really want to hear about my innermost feelings. Should I just resign myself to it and get a therapist to talk to about things like that? But then how do I feel close to him?

You should focus on conversation that he finds PLEASANT and enjoyable. If he doesn't find your "innermost" feelings enjoyable to discuss, then drop it. I don't know many men who find such discussions very enjoyable. My husband does not!

Why would you need to go to therapy?

You describe the affair a married man had with me.

If he is having an affair, he will not confirm it if you ask him. He will probably make some stupid remark about trust. Like my ex did, when I asked him if he knew his wife (google told me about her).

I am not saying he is having an affair, but it is absolutely possible and you need to find out. Intelligent people can be fooled by their spouses, it happens to the best. Learn from this website, you will benefit.

I think a more important question is, what do you do about it?

Dr. Harley would be quick to say that it is hard for people to change their feelings. What is easier to change is behavior.

So you would like to discuss topic A during UA time, but your husband doesn't want to. Try this as a possible solution: keep UA time for enjoyable conversation you are both enthusiastic about, and keep your own prioritized list of topics and problems you want to discuss with your husband, and discuss those with him at other times.

I have anxiety issues and other feelings that, while not really debilitating, come up every once in awhile and I feel a need to talk about them. I had an emotional affair because I felt like I couldn't have intimate conversations with him.

OK. I think I can do that.

No, you didn't.

You had an emotional affair because you allowed someone else to meet your need for intimate conversation.

Until you understand that all affairs take place for the same reason - because we allow someone other than our spouse to meet our most important emotional needs - you will be highly vulnerable to another affair.

Tell us about this affair. When was it, and with whom?

smallpeace, my husband has obsessive compulsive disorder and he used to talk with me when he had a "bad" thought or a particularly bad bout of anxiety. For a long time, I listened because I wanted to be supportive and understanding. Ultimately, however, it became draining and very unpleasant, and I wanted him to stop. We had several arguments about it--me claiming that it was a lovebuster for him to discuss his anxiety (falling under the category of "annoying habit") and he claiming that I wasn't meeting his need to talk through it. I ultimately posed the question to this board and Dr. Harley, who encouraged him to see a therapist.

Occasionally my husband still wants to talk through something if he is having a bout of anxiety, but I remind him that I'm not his therapist and those discussions are best left for therapy because I'm not equipped with the tools to help him through it.

Just wanted to give my 2 cents from the perspective of somebody who does not enjoy discussions rooted in anxiety.

Wife Loving Life, that's good information. Thank you.

The emotional affair was with a friend. It was a couple years ago. FWIW, my husband also had an emotional affair several years ago. We told each other about the affairs- that was how they were discovered. We both knew the other people involved.

We both understand that affairs happen when we allow others to meet our needs, and have been taking precautions.

No, you did not. You had an affair because you have poor boundaries around men. You don't NEED to have "intimate conversations." That is not a "need" like air or water.

So where is this friend now in your life? And how did the affair end?

From what I have heard Dr. Harley say, wives really don't cope well with husbands' anxiety issues, because their emotional needs are basically rooted in security, and a husband with severe anxiety is extremely threatening to their sense of security. Dr. Harley generally advises men to get treatment if they have such issues.

But I have not heard him advise it the other way around. I am pretty sure Dr. Harley does encourage men to support their wives through their anxieties, take it seriously, and use it as an opportunity to meet the wife's emotional needs. I feel pretty confident Dr. Harley would encourage the husband here to meet smallpeace's need for conversation and her need to have him as a partner in life in solving and dealing with her problems. I also feel pretty confident he would encourage smallpeace to prioritize the problems she is facing and not allow unpleasant conversation about them to disrupt UA time.

And I know for an absolute fact he'd encourage smallpeace to talk to us about the affairs that have happened in their marriage and the steps that have been taken to recover and prevent recurrence.

Thanks Markos. That's very interesting. I'll try your earlier advice to talk about my problems outside of UA time.

Neither of us are friends with the people we had affairs with anymore. In my case the other man ended it because his wife found out. I told my husband about it a few months later (after I discovered MB and found out about the policy of radical honesty). In my husband's case, he told me, and we discussed it and agreed he should terminate the friendship.

I was thinking the same thing as Marcos, about how Dr. Harley mentions the need women have to work through their problems with their husbands. I have this need as well.

I also, like WLL have experienced the huge weight of listening to complaints rooted in persistent anxiety. It gets old and ruins the positivity of UA time.

Smallpeace...I agree with the advice to separate your time of discussing worries and anxieties to outside UA time. That is the time to put your best self forward for your husband.

I would encourage you to find CONSTRUCTIVE ways to discuss your anxieties. If it is a problem that can be solved, then try presenting it to your husband as a problem that causes you anxiety, and ask for his help in making a plan to resolve it. If it is unsolvable, then talk with a therapist and consider medication. Even though we need to feel supported in our struggles, it doesn't help to bring our spouse down with repetitive lamenting or overwhelm, especially when there is nothing that the spouse can do to solve the problem.

So, do you think that you are approaching your husband for help with the problems you face? Or are you expecting to have him listen to you complain about your misfortune?

What else has changed about your lives to prevent further affairs?

Typically there is a lot that a husband can do about problems a wife is anxious about. I'd want to know a lot of specifics before concluding there's a problem that can't be solved. I wouldn't want to enable a husband to make the common mistake of telling his wife the problem can't be solved and then refusing to discuss it with her at all, especially since the solution she needs may simply be for her to be able to talk to him about the situation.

I totally agree. It is never good to shut your spouse down and be closed to conversation. And this husband may be missing out on a prime opportunity to deposit love units.

And sometimes, people just want to vent. I remember Dr. Harley discussing this on MBradio. Wish I could remember which show.

Smallpeace, what exactly are you looking for your husband to say or do in these situations?

We're working on meeting each other's emotional needs, and avoiding having them met elsewhere.

I guess just provide sympathy and reassurance, and maybe insight and advice. He basically said there was nothing I could do about it and he didn't want to talk about it anymore.

Did you and your husband end all contact with these people?

Can you give us a specific example?

We had a discussion this morning. It turns out that the reason he didn't want to talk about it was that it felt kind of sprung on him during our UA time, and he was worried that it would have a negative impact. That's the short version anyway.

We agreed to follow Markos' advice and set aside separate, non-UA time to talk about problems. We talked about my problem today and he was very helpful and empathetic.

But something else came out it in the discussion. I hadn't mentioned it on this forum, but the incident (me wanting to talk about my problems and him not wanting to) lead to a huge fight. I was upset when he didn't want to talk about it and told him I was hurt, and he saw that as me aggressively not allowing him to drop the conversation. I realize that I should have followed the PoJA and let it go.

He got really mad, and had a major angry outburst the next morning. We talked about that today, and he said that when I do something that he interprets as aggressive (like talking to him about something he doesn't want to talk about), he loses empathy for me, and starts to see me as his enemy, not a person with feelings, and that leads to his angry outbursts. So my question now is, how can he work on building empathy? He's willing to work on it.

Dr. Harley's position is that empathy can actually be pretty rare but the Policy of Joint Agreement is a tool for people to use that will cause them to behave as if they have empathy even when they do not feel it.

This is absolutely correct--Dr. Harley does state that it's easier for a husband to handle his wife's anxiety than vice versa. However, when smallpeace stated:


I assumed this issue with anxiety might be bigger than smallpeace simply wanting to talk about unpleasant topics. In Dr. Harley's email to me he said "In my book, He Wins, She Wins, I discuss how important it is for a person with an emotional disorder to take responsibility for it. It should not be up to the spouse to �cure� her mate. Emotional disorders left untreated makes it impossible to meet emotional needs or follow the Policy of Joint Agreement when making joint decisions. It also greatly limits the possibilities that are acceptable."

My thinking was that if the topics that smallpeace wanted to discuss were rooted in her anxiety, she might want to explore seeing a therapist (given that she brought up possibly needing to go to therapy). I could be making a mountain out of a molehill, just wanted to make sure that smallpeace wasn't using discussions with her husband as a way to "cure" her anxiety.

Okay, going back to lurking mode! Just wanted to share my experience.

I really think we need to get more specifics here.

I am EXTREMELY concerned that smallpeace said what she wanted to talk to her husband about was "insecurities." 9 times out of 5 here, when somebody says they are worried about feeling insecure, the REAL problem is that their spouse is doing something reprehensible like having friendships with other women, or looking at porn, and the offended spouse is made to feel as if something is wrong with them and they are "insecure" or "jealous" or has an "emotional disorder," when the real solution is for the spouse to quit being a jerk and start following the policy of joint agreement not to mention basic human decency.

We have no real idea what the scenario is because smallpeace hasn't given us much to go on (hint, hint, smallpeace! ).

Plus (and I actually discussed this with Dr. Harley recently) Dr. Harley does advise men and women pretty differently about this sort of thing - he has said that men who have anxiety issues are extremely difficult for women to deal with (full disclosure: I have some pretty high anxieties). But when it's the wife who has high anxiety Dr. Harley really does encourage the husband to accommodate her as part of caring for her. If there's a problem they need to solve it and if it's a problem of the past they need to not dwell on it but her husband needs to know about her emotional reactions to everything - especially if it's her emotional reactions to something he is doing.

By the way, I'm sitting next to my wife in a doctor's office specifically because she has a fear of doctor's offices that many would call "irrational," but she needs to see a doctor today. I'm here just to support her. Just now the door opened and the doctor started to come in and then turned around and backed out to go to another room, and Prisca grabbed me hard and just about wouldn't let go.

If I were to call this an "emotional disorder," Dr. Harley would be the first one to let me know that the problem isn't my wife's anxieties; the problem is I'm a disrespectful jerk.

Totally fair, Markos. And hope Prisca had a good appointment!

Your husband has angry outbursts because you want to talk to him? And then blames you for his angry outbursts?

Nothing else in your marriage can be solved until he eliminates ALL angry outbursts. And he won't be able to do that as long as he blames you for them.

Listen, your husband isn't 2 years old. No one can MAKE him mad. He has angry outbursts because he chooses not to control himself. He lets himself go insane in response to frustration. Don't let him blame you for that.

Right, not even subtly.

Now that Prisca has made me notice the angry outbursts, this sounds a lot like what Prisca and I used to go through: everything great for awhile and then BOOM! angry outburst.

WLL, I wouldn't say that I have an anxiety disorder. I have anxiety about certain topics, and problems with self-acceptance, but I don't bring them up very often (meaning maybe once every few months). When I do bring them up, though, it's because I feel it would help me to talk through it, and if my husband doesn't want to, I feel like he doesn't care about me. However, I think he and I have pretty much resolved this issue for now. I'm also exploring ways that I can deal with my own anxiety, such as yoga and meditation.

Markos, it's not anxiety about him or anything he's doing.

What is he going to do about his anger?

What did you do to stop the angry outbursts?

He doesn't know. We're trying to figure that out.

He's very unhappy and isn't sure whether he cares enough about the marriage to address his anger. I made it clear to him that he must address it or I can't live with him. So we're in the midst of discussing it.

Prisca told me I couldn't live with her any more if I continued to have angry outbursts. Dr. Harley approved. She got ready to change the locks and get her dad over to help force me out, but didn't have to because I conceded that I couldn't be allowed to continue to have angry outbursts.

Prisca has a great thread on the subject.

Okay, that is just cruel. Don't discuss that with him because it will just hurt you. Let him figure that out when he is alone. Ask him to leave until he's sure he cares about the marriage and will address his anger. If he refuses, come back here and we'll tell you what to do next.

Tell him he must leave if he doesn't yet know whether he cares about your marriage. You shouldn't be subjected to that.

Don't put a "we" in there. He needs to figure this out. Let him know Dr. Harley will help him and remind him of the book Love Busters, and let him know he can't stay with you if the angry outbursts don't stop. Then leave it to him.

I'd kick him out until he was sure.
Read the link in my signature to "What To Do With An Angry Husband."

Your husband is going to need to take anger management. He'll need to find one that concentrates on relaxation techniques (not all anger management programs are created equal).

Dr. Harley would also be willing to discuss it with him.

Is there a way he can talk to Dr. Harley without going on the radio show or buying the online program?

I just read What to do with an Angry Husband and listened to the segments it linked to. Thank you very much for that.

There are other options smallpeace.

If he wishes to get some counseling I'd recommend you check out the Coaching Center to get that help.

It was very helpful to our marriage to do over the phone counseling with Dr Harley's daughter Jennifer. She worked with us one on one and also together as a team.

He will answer your email if you write to him. There is never any obligation to go on the show.

He will answer your email privately, if you wish.

He will answer your email on the show, if you don't mind, but only after he has asked your permission.

He will talk to you on the show, but only after his wife and producer, Joyce Harley, has talked to you and asked your permission.

You're worrying about all this instead of just sending the email. I do wish you'd do it. No-one can force you to be on a radio show!

He needs to talk to email Dr. Harley. It doesn't get any cheaper or easier than that. And if he's not willing to do something so cheap and easy to better your marriage, I'd have serious doubts about my future with him if I were you.

Thank you!

I love Jennifer and Steve and what they do, but your husband needs to talk to Dr. Harley himself.

Thanks- I didn't realize you could just email him and he'd reply without you being on the show.

Thanks. He is willing to talk to him and actually asked me about that himself, but we didn't realize he could just email him and get a reply without being on the radio show.

Will you let us know how it turns out?

Yes. He committed to writing to Dr. Harley by Sunday. Thank you all so much!

His email (from "Franklin") was on the radio show today. We both think Dr. Harley gave really good advice.

Just wanted to add context to a couple things my husband wrote. I have been working on dropping conversations when he asks me to. The example he gave about the car happened years ago, and I haven't followed him out of the house since then. The example he gave about talking at 2AM was an argument that had started a couple hours earlier and we were still up arguing that late- it wasn't that I woke him up to talk, and actually I was upset that we were still talking that late too. I've never woken him up to talk (but he has done that to me!). When he said that I wouldn't turn off the reading light- I need to read for a few minutes in order to fall asleep. He knows that but I reminded him of it and asked if I could please read for a few minutes to fall asleep. He let me, but I guess got angry about it. That situation doesn't usually come up though because he normally goes to bed after I do (bad, I know).

We agreed a last week to stop having arguments, but we came very close to having one the other day because I respectfully asked him why he hadn't done something he'd said he'd do and he heard it as criticism. It's really hard for both of us to stop getting defensive.

OK, that's it- I welcome your feedback!

smallpeace, Prisca and I had to almost completely drop the word "why?" from our negotiation conversations, because it is so easy for it to be read as a challenge. It is important to understand each other's point of view, but we had to find ways to ask each other about our point of view without using that word. Asking more specific questions helped.

Thanks, Markos. That's helpful!

I just listened to Anger Management 101, which I'd somehow missed before and was full of helpful information. My husband definitely seems to get angry because of feeling disrespected or rejected. Dr. Harley mentioned that the caller should address those feelings, but do you have any suggestions of how he should do that? Most of our arguments started because I'd respectfully (from my perspective) complain about something and he'd get defensive so I'd feel hurt, or he'd tell me I did or felt something wrong using disrespectful judgments and I'd feel hurt and defensive, and then he'd feel doubly disrespected because I'd tell him that I didn't feel the way he thought I did, so he'd start to lose his temper.

Did you listen to all the clips in the anger management thread? I have posted many towards the end of the thread.

Dr. Harley's plan for avoiding angry outbursts involves two aspects.

One aspect is having a plan to try to avoid circumstances that trigger angry outbursts. This would certainly include love busters on the part of one's spouse, or learning to leave conversations that include love busters, etc.

The other aspect, and probably the important one, is relaxation therapy training for those times when triggers cannot be avoided. You and your husband will have to learn how to stay relaxed when something frustrates you and even how to stay relaxed when your spouse does something wrong or does something hurtful. This is certainly not easy, but it is definitely possible. Dr. Harley talks quite a bit about relaxation therapy - be sure to keep listening to those links and reading articles and Love Busters until you find it.


I would suggest that for now after a complaint you promptly end the conversation or move to another subject. That will give you both time to calm down if either of you is getting emotional about the subject. Then you can come back to it later when you are both calm and discuss it again for awhile. Or better still you may find that after you are both calm he simply stops engaging in whatever behavior you were complaining about and no more discussion is necessary. Resist the urge to make him see your point or make him feel what you are feeling or make emphasize/understand/etc. Just pass the information that what he is doing bothers you and give some time for him to decide to do something about it.

I'm making my way through them. Thanks!

OK, thanks! Is timing something I should consider? For example, often when I complain about something, even if I say "it bothers me when...", he immediately gets upset because he thinks complaining is negative and there haven't been enough positive interactions between us, so I'm afraid to complain. I think by "positive interactions" he means affection and/or sex. But I don't want to feel like I need to "butter him up" in order to respectfully make a complaint!

Positive interactions have to wait until the Demands, Disrespectful Judgments, and Angry Outbursts stop.

Nobody can earn an end to SDs, DJs, and AOs by making enough "positive interactions." A person who has demands, disrespect, and angry outbursts is a black hole that can never be filled by "positive interactions" or "meeting emotional needs." They have to KNOCK IT OFF and then positive interactions are possible.

Thanks. That was my understanding as well. So should I stop complaining until his love busters stop? I've already committed to stopping my SDs, and stopping arguing. I'm not even sure whether his getting upset when I complain is a SD, DJ, or AO. I think he sees complaining as a DJ, even if phrased "it bothers me when" (he thinks he reads a subtext of criticism).

Also, how long should I wait to be able to determine that his SDs, DJs, and AOs have permanently stopped? Weeks? Months?

Dr Harley would say:
AO: next one he has-kick him out of the house for a year while he does anger management and can prove for that year that he is safe to live with. This is non-negotiable. Anger kills and stops anyone from having any kind of real relationship.

The DJ and SD, write down each and every instance and give it to him at the end of the week. When you see that he has stopped for 3-4 months... you are on the right track of having trained yourself out of them.

His getting upset can be a little of all of those depending on what he says and does. Does he yell? Do you feel he has punished you? I need to know more.

It doesn't matter if he thinks your complaining is a DJ. It isn't- as long as you phrase it correctly and then drop it. Dr H does suggest if it is to hard to talk it out, to write it out and then just give it to him as I suggested above.

(hint: if he tears up the paper, or tells you that this is to much or makes any kind of remark like that- Its an AO and DR H would tell you to kick him out immediately. It really is that serious)

Radio Show on Angry Outbursts

How's it going smallpeace?

It's going OK. Thanks for asking. We both feel like things are generally on an upward swing but he's still pretty unhappy and hasn't been able to completely control his AOs and DJs, although they have been less severe. He still agrees that he needs to keep working on eliminating them.

Another thing came up yesterday that has been recurring in our relationship but I hadn't mentioned before on the forum. He said that it seems like I've been getting out of shape and that it really bothers him. I know that he communicated this to me in the appropriate way, but I can't help feeling upset about it (I just said OK and didn't let him know I was upset). I'm 5'9, 135 lbs, and my weight hasn't changed, I still look the same to myself, and my clothes fit the same, I haven't changed my eating or exercise habits. So basically all that was communicated to me was that he doesn't find me attractive right now, but I don't know what I can do about it. PA is one of his top needs, but I feel like he's a little unreasonable about it (I didn't tell him this since it would be a DJ). I feel like asking him to try to refrain from saying anything about my appearance unless it's really obvious, because it just makes me feel unattractive and makes love bank withdrawals. What should I do?

When he has completely eliminated his AOs, you can discuss what exactly he would like as far as your looks. Until then, such a discussion is not safe.

OK, thanks. So until then, how should I handle his complaint? What other discussions should we avoid?

Perhaps suggest exercise or more physically active UA but no weight discussions.

Not judging him, but at 5'9" and 135#, you are closer to underweight than overweight. Is he looking at porn or doctored images of women in mags or TV?

I usually suggest walks or hiking for UA already. His "type" that he's attracted to is very slim. I don't know why, but it's always been that way. He says he doesn't look at porn or mags, but he sometimes comments that he sees me next to other people and compared to them I look out of shape. We also live in a major urban area and he sees a lot of young, beautiful women daily.

He'll kind of go back and forth between telling me how great I look, and complaining that I'm not in shape, but from my perspective I always look more or less the same, and I monitor my weight which is always the same.

I think he is looking at porn/doctored images. Did you put spyware on his computer/phone?

Someone 5'9" and 135 is quite slender.

No. Can you direct me to info about that?

Have you told your husband his angry outbursts have to stop?

When was his last angry outburst?

Yes, I have told him, and he agrees. His last angry outburst was last weekend, but he didn't realize it was an angry outburst until I pointed it out, and he apologized. He's been working on calming techniques. He knows that our job right now is to eliminate love busters.

He's still unhappy, though, so it's hard for him. He told me that he thinks it's not fair that I married him knowing that he had anger problems and now I need him to change, but he just wants me to be the way I was when we got married. He feels like I deceived him.

It takes him a long time to be cheerful again after something upsets him. Even if he's trying to refrain from love busters and is acting relatively calm, he'll sulk and be kind of morose and mean, and that can last for a day or two. I think he just thinks I'm wrong and can't get over it.

He's been having trouble eliminating DJs. He says that he feels the right thing to do is to tell me if he thinks I did something wrong, because it's important for me to know that he thinks it's wrong. I told him Dr. Harley doesn't agree, and he said he didn't care.

On the other hand, we've been having a lot of fun during UA time, have pretty much stopped arguing, and the majority of the time we get along really well. It's like we'll have 1-2 weeks that are really good, and then he'll get upset about something and still doesn't handle it that well, but it's better. I've been working on regulating my emotions too and he agrees that I've gotten better.

In the Operation Investigate forum

I would consider that the equivalent of "tearing up the paper," and I would kick him out immediately.

Small Peace,
I am sorry to also say that even if you have a few good days, he has a very very long way to go.
Nothing will really ever change for real with all this nonsense about how unfair it is to him that he has to actually treat you like a civilized human being with care and respect.
My word.... He isn't serious SP and is throwing you crumbs to get you to back off. A women can't pull and tug a man up a hill.
HE needs to be the one doing the hard work on himself to make your marriage great.

You do need to separate.

If you don't you will be in this exact same spot forever until it actually hurts you physically.
What women's bodies do when we won't listen to it (and stay in very unhealthy relationships) is to slowly start making you sick until you can't not pay attention anymore.

We aren't telling you this because its easy to hear. From the outside your relationship sounds horrible and we are really trying to give you the best shot at either getting a man worth having or going your separate ways before living like this kills you slowly.

Hi All,

He agreed to keep working on things, and it has been getting better. We took a weekend away and had a great time with no LBs and lots of deposits. Now my question is, how to keep up the momentum once we're back in real life with obligations?

He's been stressed out ever since we got back because he has a lot of extra work. Today he was working from home, and he got upset when I asked him a question about whether he'd be able to get a small daily chore done that is usually his responsibility. He said that when he's stressed out, he needs me to be more supportive and basically not bother him about things like that- like if he answers "I don't know" when I ask him when/if he'll be able to do a chore, I should just drop it. I told him that I felt brushed off, and he said that sometimes his needs should be more important, and he just had too much on his plate to deal with me.

What he said bothered me, because I feel like we need to stay connected even when we're under stress, and it should be less about supporting each other at different times, and more about working through things together, side by side. I feel like he just wants me to leave him alone all day when he's busy, but that makes me feel uncared for.

Am I just being selfish? I didn't handle it too well- he didn't have an AO but I still got really upset because I felt brushed off. Should I have just dropped it until the evening when he's done with work?

These little problems are not going to stop.

Nothing can every be resolved until he is in Anger management and he promises to never have another AO again.

NO weekends away, no good days, no good weeks..... NEVER EVER.

Until you know without a shadow of a doubt that he won't have an AO at you.... all this is really pointless.

(I view it as a rattlesnake. It doesn't matter how nice that snake is to you sometimes. Until he learns how to not be a rattlesnake, it is only time before he bites. And he will.)

PS: No one is ever selfish like that way you are suggesting. You are upset and need to let him know without love busting and then not punish him. That is your being radically honest.

I'm having trouble figuring out the best way to bring up problems, and differentiating between complaints, requests, and conflicts.

Today, I was running late and forgot to pack a snack for my daughter, and called my husband (who was still home) to ask if he had time to bring it to her school. He got upset, and said that it really bothers him that I'm always running late, and also when she has to get a hot lunch at school because I didn't have time to make her lunch, and that he didn't have time to bring her snack. So I went home to get the snack and was late for work, and was ok with that.

The reason I'm always running late is that I feel overwhelmed with too much to do to get myself and my daughter ready in the morning. Running late is kind of stressful but doesn't bother me that much, and as far as I can tell, doesn't cause any material consequences to my daughter or my husband.

Is this a situation where he should have simply said (when he had calmed down) that it bothers him when I'm running late and don't make her lunch, and I should have simply said I'm sorry, and will stop running late and will make sure that I make her lunch every day? Or would it be appropriate for me to say, let's negotiate a solution together?

As it stands, he is unwilling to negotiate a solution together. He said that I'd let stuff slide to the point where it affects others, and if he'd done that, he'd feel really bad, apologize, and get it together. I told him that I wanted to work on fixing the problem together, and offered a bunch of possible solutions. He said that he just wants me to leave on time and make her lunch every day, and it's up to me to figure out how to do that. He says that it's my responsibility to leave on time, and not leaving on time knowing that bothers him would be disrespectful to him.

I should add that I'm only responsible for getting her to school etc. 2 days a week, and he does it the other 3. He feels resentful that he leaves on time and makes her lunch on his days but I'm less consistent on my days.

I should also add that we've had this conflict for years and have had numerous arguments about it. I'm trying to avoid having another one.

So again, my question is how this should be handled by us.

Another example: last weekend, we had friends over and were playing cards. I went to check on our daughter, and she was having trouble sleeping, so I stayed in her room awhile helping her get to sleep. My husband came in and told me everyone was waiting for me to come back and I was being inconsiderate. The next day, I told him it bothered be that he had said that, and I wished he'd left out the part about being inconsiderate. He said he was sorry for saying that, but still felt like I was being inconsiderate, and would like me to stop being inconsiderate in the future. I told him I wasn't clear on what he wanted me to do, and he took that as me refusing to agree to stop being inconsiderate, and got upset. He said that I always want him to change his behavior but refuse to change mine when he asks me to. Should I really have just said, "ok, I'll try to be more considerate"? In other words, was this a complaint, request, or conflict?

Does this mean he is stilling having AO's?

This is the problem here smallpeace.

I wouldn't have called it an AO, but he did use DJs. He is working on both but is having a lot of trouble with the DJs. He says he doesn't know how to express himself without them, and figuring out different ways to say everything is more than he feels capable of handling right now. I think he's going to write to Dr. Harley again soon.

Should negotiation always be an option, or are there times when a complaint is a complaint, and you're just supposed to stop whatever the complaint was about (for example, being late or being inconsiderate)?

The biggest problem I see in your examples is that your husband is full of disrespectful judgements.

Are your actions bothering him? Yes. Is he going about talking to you about it in the right way? NO.

The problem he sees about when your daughter gets to school CAN be solved (and it needs to be solved together), but you can't start solving it until he eliminates demands, disrespect, and angry outbursts.

This is a copout. He is more than capable of learning how to treat you with care, he just doesn't want to. He's not that fragile.

It was a complaint/conflict which he expressed with disrespectful judgements and demands.
No, you should not reward his disrespect by saying ok, which is capitulation to not only the disrespect, but also the subtle demand that you behave in the way he chooses.


I will assume it would bother you to be inconsiderate of your daughters needs. Dr Harley might say it was a health and safety issue to take care of your daughter, I'm not sure because its surprised me sometimes what does and does not qualify, but regardless of that aspect, now that a complaint has been brought you should not have friends over while you might need to care for your daughter until you negotiate a solution to such a situation in the future.

He could have said, "it bothered me that you didn't come back down right away and left me to entertain our friends." That would have been an appropriate complaint. At that point you would have had a lovebusters free conflict and could have begun negotiating.