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Hello, I am new to this site. I have read a lot of the letters and info to follow. I had an affair for month. I have cut it off completely and I want to work on my marriage. Problem is that my wife is still very angry at me and won't let me back in to try and work this out. I have said that I am not giving up and I am going to fight for her love for as long as I have to. I just don't know how long she will be mad and if or when she will allow us to work on our marriage. Any guidance or words of advice would be much appreciated.
I am struggling because I love and miss my wife a great deal and I want her back.
Thank you.
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Hi Jason, welcome to Marriage Builders. How long have you been married? Any children?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Going on 18 years in June. Two kids. A sophomore and a freshman. We have been together for 20 years this March. Any suggestions would be appreciated. My wife asked for some space to get past the anger before we can even figure out where to go from there. I don�t believe she wants to get a divorce at least i hope so. I want to work and be a better husband and i want is to be a stronger couple.
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Did you move out? Does your family know about the affair? Do you have any contact now with your affair partner? When was the last time you saw or spoke to the OW? Is the OW married? If so, does her spouse know?
What do you think led to your affair? Do you travel away from home?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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The kids don�t know the details. My wife knows everything. I moved out when we separated when the affair started. I have zero contact with the OW. OW is not married.
What led to the affair, after talking to my counselor it was some lack of affection and a lack of communication on my part. I haven�t spoke to the OW for a month now. I have zero desire to speak to her again. I want to focus on my wife and my kids. I really want our marriage to work. I feel she wants to work on our marriage.
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Where did you move when you moved out for your affair? In with the OW? What is your living arrangement now? When you moved out to have your affair, what reason did you give your wife? Is this your first affair? What led to the affair, after talking to my counselor it was some lack of affection and a lack of communication on my part. Do you understand the affair occurred because of your poor boundaries with women? Your wife could have met your needs 100% and you would have still had an affair if you allowed another woman to meet your needs. I am concerned that you may have blamed your affair on your wife, which will naturally lead to resentment and preclude recovery.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I live with a friend of mine. I have blamed the whole situation on myself. I do not blame my wife at all. First And only time. . I am not interested in anybody else but my wife. I have come the conclusion after reflection that i truly love my wife and that i am working to be a better man. I just want the opportunity to show my wife that i can be better and that i can make her happy as long as we live.
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How did you meet the OW? Have you changed all your contact information so OW can�t contact you?
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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I have cut her off completely. No contact at all. No email and no cell phone contact. My wife has access to everything. I am being totally transparent.
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I live with a friend of mine. I have blamed the whole situation on myself. I do not blame my wife at all. First And only time. . I am not interested in anybody else but my wife. I have come the conclusion after reflection that i truly love my wife and that i am working to be a better man. I just want the opportunity to show my wife that i can be better and that i can make her happy as long as we live. Jason, we can help you fix your marriage if your wife is willing. Marriage Builders is completely different from other programs in that the objective is to create romantic love in your marriage in addition to affair proofing it. When you say this: after talking to my counselor it was some lack of affection and a lack of communication on my part it very much comes across as if you are blaming her. So I would caution you about even saying things like that. Yes, we understand there was probably a lack of affection and conversation in your marriage but that did not cause the affair. What we can do is show you how to create a marriage where both your needs are met and you are in love. Will she come here? What is holding her back from trying?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Here is the program in a nutshell, followed by the extraordinary precautions checklist: The plan I recommend for recovery after an affair is very specific. That's because I've found that even small deviations from that plan are usually disastrous. But when it's followed, it always works. The plan has two parts that must be implemented sequentially. The first part of the plan is for the unfaithful spouse to completely separate from the lover and eliminate the conditions that made the affair possible. The second part is for the couple to create a romantic relationship, using my Basic Concepts as a guide. I'll describe these two parts to you in a little more detail. The first step, complete separation from the lover and eliminating the conditions that made the affair possible, requires a complete understanding of the affair. All information regarding the affair must be revealed to the betrayed spouse, including the name of the lover, the conditions that made the affair possible (travel, internet, etc.), the details of what took place during the affair, all correspondence, and anything else that would shed light on the tragedy. This information is important for two reasons: (1) it creates accountability and transparency, making it essentially impossible for the unfaithful spouse to continue the affair or begin a new one unnoticed, and (2) it creates trust for the betrayed spouse, providing evidence that the affair is over and a new one is unlikely to take its place. The nightmares you experience are likely to continue until you have the facts that will lead to your assurance that your husband can be trusted. An analysis of the wayward spouse's childhood or emotional state of mind in an effort to discover why he or she would have an affair is distracting and unnecessary. It takes precious time away from finding the real solutions. I know why people have affairs: We are all wired for it. Given certain conditions, we would all do it. Given other conditions, however, none of us would do it. So the goal of the first step is to discover the conditions that made the affair possible and eliminate them. After the first step is completed, the second step is to create a romantic relationship between you and your husband using my 10 Basic Concepts here as your guide. While your relationship may be improving, it won't lead to a romantic relationship because you are not being transparent toward each other. Unspoken issues in a marital relationship lead to a superficiality that ruins romance. <snip unrelated> Infidelity is not something that can be swept under the rug. While those who have affairs want to forget about it and move on, those who are betrayed must take very specific steps before they can fully recover. In your case, those steps have not been taken, and as a result, your fear persists. I will send you a complimentary copy of my book, "Surviving an Affair," if you send me your address. It will describe these two steps to you and provide you with a roadmap toward full recovery. But the path will require full disclosure of all details. Best wishes, Willard F. Harley, Jr.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67
The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.
These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.
Checklist for How Affairs Should End
_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.
_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.
_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.
_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:
_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).
_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).
_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).
_____Spend leisure time together.
_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.
_____Avoid overnight separation.
_____Allow technical accountability.
_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I have given all of the details and i have cut off the relationship completely. I just need to wait and see if my wife is willing to work on our marriage. I sure hope she is because i am all in to make it Work.
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**EDIT**
moderators note: Jason, I removed your address. The post from Dr Harley above was an email to a client who contacted him directly. Sorry for the misunderstanding...
Last edited by Denali; 03/05/18 10:29 PM.
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FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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She works at the same school i work at. Our positions don�t ever come into contact unless we want them to. I have zero contact with her.
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She works at the same school i work at. Our positions don�t ever come into contact unless we want them to. I have zero contact with her. That will absolutely prevent recovery. You have the ability to see your OW every day at work. You realize this will never work, right?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Yes. Working on a transfer with my principal.
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Yes. Working on a transfer with my principal. That's great! Will your wife come here and let us help her? Many of us have been through this and have great marriages today. We can help you both.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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What do you mean come here? Where�s here?
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I�m not sure she is ready to do that until she is done being angry about the situation. I can only hope that after that she wants to work on us.
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What do you mean come here? Where�s here? I mean to come to the forum so we can help her. We have a plan to help her put her life back together and ensure this doesn't happen again.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I want to work and be a better husband and I want us to be a stronger couple. I agree with the others that you have to be reeeeeeallllly careful about implying there was anything wrong with the marriage. You can be the strongest couple in the world at home; that does not help at all if you go to work with poor boundaries. Transferring is going to go a long way to showing genuine remorse and could be the card you need. Talk is cheap but also.... Every day you go to work with the OW your wife is hurt beyond your imagining and she's having to distance herself from you, from this situation to avoid pain. So you may see a different situation post-transfer. Until then the A is still on, at least as far as the harm to your wife is concerned. Also, she may never forgive you because it's a big ask. Are you ok with accepting that? While trying your hardest to make any amends she needs in the meantime?
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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I don�t have much of a choice. If she doesn�t forgive then we probably can�t work on our marriage. True?
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She might. Not sure if i should ask yet. She is still angry. I don�t want to push her. Trying to give her space right now.
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I agree. The only thing wrong was me. I just want the chance to make things right and show her that I love her and want to make her happy.
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I will try my hardest to do whatever I need to, to make amends.
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I don�t have much of a choice. If she doesn�t forgive then we probably can�t work on our marriage. True? Oh no, don't worry about that. Dr Harley doesn't believe in forgivenness, but in just compensation. That might sound harsh, but it really isn't when you think about it logically.. Can't We Just Forgive and Forget?And I would let her know that you dearly want to save your marriage and ask her if she would come here and look at the Marriage Builders plan. Send her this link and have her read the articles and watch the video: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5525_qa.html
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Read this and listen to the radio clips in here. What is Just Compensation?
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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I don�t have much of a choice. If she doesn�t forgive then we probably can�t work on our marriage. True? There are plans here for one person to do alone with a reluctant spouse. You can pay her Just Compensation. You can use the plans to show your wife changes over time that she can believe in. It will have to be a very, patient undemanding effort from you. If she is not appealed to, you must not lecture, or plead or beg. You must not imply that you expect this; don't give her the impression wives are supposed to forgive infidelity. Acknowledge that you are asking for a huge leap of faith and that her refusal is ok. Patience will take you a long way, and most betrayed spouses are inclined to forgive in my experience but there are no guarantees.
Last edited by indiegirl; 03/06/18 12:59 PM.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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I will try. I am just worried about pushing her away because she is still angry.
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I think that's understandable and your transfer is probably going to be the best remedy. Does she know about it? Can she have input on where you are transferred?
Has she told you not to contact her or is she just very upset when you speak?
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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We have talked about not contacting her. My wife has access to all my texts and my emails so she is in the loop. There has been zero contact since Feb 7 when i broke it off and left. We have talked about me trying to get a transfer and she is yes and no about it. Our kids are here and she wants me to be here for them. The ideal situation is to have the OW transfer to another school. Really no input on transfer. More of what is open in the administration level.
Last edited by jason79; 03/06/18 05:02 PM.
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I get you when you say you'd just have to take anything that was given transfer-wise (or hope OW is transferred) but it's more about letting your wife feel empowered and prioritised. So for example you may get two options; talk to your wife about each one. Let her know you will be doing this. Let her know that you are willing to quit the job if it comes to it. Reassure her she is the priority. We have talked about not contacting her. Does this mean she goes back and forth a lot on what she wants to do? That is really pretty normal. She finds the future hard to picture. You can help her a great deal by doing the leg work and handing her some nice visuals.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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When i broke it off and left.. Oh dear. Yeah she is definitely going to make you prove yourself.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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We have talked about not contacting her. My wife has access to all my texts and my emails so she is in the loop. There has been zero contact since Feb 7 when i broke it off and left. We have talked about me trying to get a transfer and she is yes and no about it. Our kids are here and she wants me to be here for them. The ideal situation is to have the OW transfer to another school. Really no input on transfer. More of what is open in the administration level. Jason, I would reach out to her and tell her that you love her very much and want to save your family. Silence is surely not good. You need to demonstrate that you are willing to fight for your marriage. Tell her that you are trying to get transferred so you can save your marriage and why. The reason why is so you can save your marriage and family. It is in your children's best interest for you and them to get out of there. They have a right to know what has happened, and when you explain, they will understand why they have to change schools. It won't be easy, but you need to stop givng her "space" and start approaching her with a serious plan to save your marriage. In the meantime, I would get the book Survivng an Affair and read it. It has a plan for recovery. The things we are telling you will make much more sense if you understand the dynamics of an affair and subsequent recovery.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I will do whatever i have to to get my wife back. I just need her to give me that opportunity.
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Did you read this and listen to the radio clips?
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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I watched the video today. Haven�t listened to the radio clips yet.
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Jason, how did your wife find out about the affair? Does she know the OW?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I will do whatever i have to to get my wife back. I just need her to give me that opportunity. Jason, I would tell your wife that you are going to "more than make this up to her." Don't speak a word about whether or not she will give you a chance. She can and will think about that on her own. Then, using the principles of this program, you start being the best husband in the world - the best thing that ever happened to her. You start living a life of 100% transparency and accountability. You practice all of the extraordinary precautions that Dr. Harley recommends that make infidelity impossible. You make your wife aware of where you are and what you are doing at all times. You give her access to all your computers, phones, devices, all passwords, all bank accounts, etc. You let her know that she is willing to check up on you in any way. You spend 15+ hours every week alone with your wife giving her your undivided attention, becoming her favorite conversation partner and showing affection to her. You spend another 15 hours every week with her and the children being the best father you can possibly be, in her presence. You never become demanding, disrespectful, or have an angry outburst. You practice complete radical honesty with your wife and you eliminate any behaviors you practice that she finds annoying or that she is not enthusiastic about. If you will live this way, you will make so many love bank deposits that your wife will fall back in love with you, and the trauma that you have inflicted on her will be healed and will be nothing but a bad memory. Now, your wife might choose to divorce you at any time. That is her choice. But until and unless that happens, you have the chance to make this up to her, and if you do, you will recover your marriage. You do not need to wait for her in any way. You do not need her to give you any opportunity. The fact that you are still legally married to her IS your opportunity - use it!! Jason, are you listening to Dr. Harley's daily radio show? This is the schooling you are going to need to pull this off.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Okay I need to highlight some of this because it's gold. Jason, I would tell your wife that you are going to "more than make this up to her." .....using the principles of this program, you start being the best husband in the world - the best thing that ever happened to her. . This is your sales pitch really. People who have been betrayed need a big incentive to feel hopeful. Make it about how you are educating yourself here, how you are passionate about doing this for her, how you will never stop improving your skills here. Don't speak a word about whether or not she will give you a chance. She can and will think about that on her own.
. This helps avoid lovebusters. Learn about those herehttp://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html Talking about the forgiveness you want is a Selfish Demand. Talking about how she must/should feel is a Disrespectful Judgement and if you were to talk about how you feel I imagine that would be an Annoying Habit. Keep it as a good sales pitch. A bright, honest picture of an ideal future. Without pressure because your product is good. Would she post here? Betrayal is pretty lonely and it would help her to see it's not just her, it is something people come back from.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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I told her. Yes she knows her. The OW is a counselor at our school.
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I told her. Yes she knows her. The OW is a counselor at our school. What a wonderful person.  Has she wrecked other families in your school? She would lose her license for committing adultery with a married colleague in many states.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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What seems to predict succes rate in your situation is the effort you put in understanding the program and implementing it. The radio show is invaluable and if you listen to older shows, it will help you understand the plan you need to follow. Start with the shows other members recommended. Also, read other threads. So many people have posted their experience, learn from them, so you don't make common mistakes and your wife doesn't get hurt any more than she already is.
If you can motivate yourself to put effort in that, it will be more likely that you put effort in executing the plan to survive the affair and your marriage has a chance. If not, there is not much hope for your marriage.
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Jason, are you listening to Dr. Harley's daily radio show? This is the schooling you are going to need to pull this off. So - are you? Did you read my post?
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Yes I read your post. As of now she is still really angry and doesn't want to talk to me a whole lot. I engaged in conversation with her yesterday for about an hour. Trust me I want to talk to her everyday. I have not listened to the radio show yet. I am installing the app as we speak. I will start to listen to the show. I can use all the pointers I can get.
I also wrote her a letter and I said that I was going to be a better man and a better husband. I have not said anything about us being better, I have taken all responsibility and I am working on being better for me and for her. Thank you for you help and guidance.
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Definitely start to listen to the radio clips in the Just Compensation thread.
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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What did this hour long conversation consist of?
It's quite promising you're getting that
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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Basically how her day was. And we also talked about our kids and there sports. It felt like an hour. Probably was more like 40 min.
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I also wrote her a letter and I said that I was going to be a better man and a better husband. I have not said anything about us being better, I have taken all responsibility and I am working on being better for me and for her. Thank you for you help and guidance. I like that you did that. But you need to send her a SOLID PLAN to affair proof your marriage and create a romantic relationship. Because she should not even consider taking you back until you get away from the OW. Your wife is not SAFE until that happens. I hope you understand the sense of urgency here. Going to work with the OW every day has to be a horrible trigger and threat to your wife should cause her to be very alarmed. Going to work there every day with the OW is the equivalent of the alcoholic going into the bar every day. And of course they all "SWEAR" they will never drink again. [until they drink again] What is the latest on your transfer?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I am writing the plan now. I watched the video and I have a plan to prevent re occurrence and I am writing a plan to fall in love now. My principal is looking into the transfer. As of now the OW is not at work. She is on leave for another few weeks.
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I am writing the plan now. I watched the video and I have a plan to prevent re occurrence and I am writing a plan to fall in love now. My principal is looking into the transfer. As of now the OW is not at work. She is on leave for another few weeks. Can you manage to go on leave if she comes back before you are gone? Is the OW married? Why is she on leave? Does your wife know this? Also, can you post your letter here so we can give you feedback? This program is very action/results oriented and we can help you with the letter.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I told her. Yes she knows her. The OW is a counselor at our school. Do both your line managers know that you have had an affair? That is surely gross professional misconduct. Has there been any mention of disciplining the pair of you? Surely the school board, or whoever is in charge, would take a dim view of a counsellor, appointed to support students during periods of emotional distress, who has such little sense of professionalism that she has an affair with a married teacher. I'm not saying that your conduct as that married teacher was any less reprehensible, but I'd have thought that her licensing authority would be very concerned about her working in a school, where she is assumed to have a position of trust, and where her client group is vulnerable children. What does your line manager know about your reasons for requesting the transfer? Does he know about this misconduct? I would have thought that if he knew, he would be dealing with it as a matter of urgency, and as a matter of discipline.
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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No OW is not married. Widowed. My wife knows everything. Complete transparency. I would post the letter but i already gave it to my wife. I hand wrote it.
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No OW is not married. Widowed. My wife knows everything. Complete transparency. I would post the letter but i already gave it to my wife. I hand wrote it. You wrote her a SECOND letter with a plan for recovery in it?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Even after a transfer, isn't it still going to be possible for you to see the OW since you'll both be working for the same school district?
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Jason, I would tell your wife that you are going to "more than make this up to her." Don't speak a word about whether or not she will give you a chance.
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You do not need to wait for her in any way. You do not need her to give you any opportunity. The fact that you are still legally married to her IS your opportunity - use it!! Did you write your wife a big long letter asking her to give you a chance, after I encouraged you to "not speak a word about whether or not she will give you a chance"?
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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No. The letter consisted of how I was working to make myself better. never once asking for a chance or forgiveness. Owning my mistakes and poor choices and the steps I am taking to be better for me, her and the kids.
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I have not written a second letter. I have written a plan for recovery as far as a plan to fall in love and a plan to avoid re occurrence. Should I give her a copy of that?
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Would you post the letter?
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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I have a plan to show her what I have been working on but I am afraid to show her. I don't want to push her away if she is not ready to think about recovery. Thoughts?
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Can I attach a PDF to a reply?
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Is there any chance you might reply to me? I took time to make that post.
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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I have a plan to show her what I have been working on but I am afraid to show her. I don't want to push her away if she is not ready to think about recovery. Thoughts? You owe her the option. The only way you are going to know if she wants you to pay her just compensation is to ask.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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Sorry. I completely missed your post. Yes my principal knows. He has been in on everything. Since the relationship was off site and not affecting work then it is not his business according to him. He is well aware of my intentions as far as transfer and he has also expressed his support for my wife and I.
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I have a plan to show her what I have been working on but I am afraid to show her. I don't want to push her away if she is not ready to think about recovery. Thoughts? What is your plan? If I were her, I would want to see a serious PLAN to protect me from this ever happening again and a plan to recover your marriage. That is what this program provides. You could send her the checklist I posted along with Dr Harley's video about How to Survive Infidelity. The main concern for her has to be affair proofing your marriage and cleaning up your boundaries around women. For example, 99% of affairs begin with opposite sex friendships. That is probably how your affair began. The biggest issue is that you still work in the same place as the OW and that MUST be rectified NOW. Have you told your principal about the affair so she understands how critical it is to transfer you? Also, what about Markos' point about being in the same district? If you were transferred, what does that look like? Going to a new town some distance away? Will it involve a MOVE?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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And please respond to the other posters who have taken their time to post to you about critical issues. This is not an area where you can cherry pick things you want to hear. Nor is it respectful to ignore people who have taken their own personal time to give you valuable advice.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Can I attach a PDF to a reply? Can you just copy and paste it?
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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I apologize. I missed that post. I have since responded.
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I am trying. The PDF wont post on here when I copy and paste. I will keep trying.
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Here is my plan so far to prevent Re-Occurrence:
1. Get a transfer
2. Call Zack/Rus
3. Communicate with my wife about meeting each others needs
4. Eliminate all contact
5. Enlist support from more people - co workers
6. Apply for another position
7. Complete Transparency
8. Radical Honesty
9. Eliminate all contact - email, phone, text and social media
Thoughts?? Suggestions?
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Here is my plan to fall in love:
1. Spend Quality time with my wife - 15 hours a week
2. Work to make her laugh and smile
3. Show love and affection in the simplest ways
4. Back rubs, hold hands, hold her,
5. romantic dinners, getaways
6. Be Honest - radical honesty
7. Be there for her
8. Learn to meet her emotional needs
9. recreational companionship - find something fun to do together
10. Take care of myself
11. Kiss her
12. Put my wife first
13. Do the little things that make her happy.
Thoughts Suggestions?? This is what i have so far
Last edited by jason79; 03/09/18 02:36 PM.
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I also have in my little recovery packet the Guidelines for:
1. Successful recovery plan
2. Four rules to guide marital recovery
3. 3 goals for marriage
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If I was transferred or got a job at a different school site, I would never see the OW.
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Here is my plan so far to prevent Re-Occurrence:
1. Get a transfer
2. Call Zack/Rus
3. Communicate with my wife about meeting each others needs
4. Eliminate all contact
5. Enlist support from more people - co workers
6. Apply for another position
7. Complete Transparency
8. Radical Honesty
9. Eliminate all contact - email, phone, text and social media
Thoughts?? Suggestions? Zack/Rus? I would change 1) to: get a transfer within x weeks (before OW leave expires) or take sabbatical/quit/become substitute teacher while job hunting. Tell her the back up plan. 2) to become a more honest and open conversationalist. (You don't want to mention her ability to meet your needs at this juncture even if its as a result of you being at fault) 3) specifically mention the needs she has. If it's RC, say 'take you dancing and be a fun companion', if it's affection say 'I'm going to call you every lunch time to say I love you'. 4) Add HOW. Change of number and email addresses. Deletion of social media. NCletter you send together as a couple. Sharing/switching of phones. 5) I think this is how you got into trouble in the first place! With your wife expose the affair to close family and friends instead. Ask them to support your DW and apologise for disappointing them. 7) I would add no nights apart and living a completely integrated life where your wife is your best friend and absolute priority.
Last edited by indiegirl; 03/09/18 02:57 PM.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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If I was transferred or got a job at a different school site, I would never see the OW. Does your district ever send teachers to each other's schools for training events? If she so chose, could she be put on the substitute list for the district and therefore for your school?
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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Also, what route would you use to implement the plans here? Would you give your wife the choice?
You could both use the free online resources/books or you could pay to sign up with the counselling centre.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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We are not teachers. She is a Guidance counselor and I am an Administrator.
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I would definitely give her a choice. i am willing to do whatever is necessary..
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Thank you for the ideas. I have exposed the affair to close friends and have apologized for being a disappointment to them and that I am working to be a better husband and man,.
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She very well may leave at the end of the school year also. She has made that comment to a few different people over the last couple of months.
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Thank you for the ideas. I have exposed the affair to close friends and have apologized for being a disappointment to them and that I am working to be a better husband and man,. Was anyone on OW's side exposed to? Did you tell your children?
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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Thank you for the ideas. I have exposed the affair to close friends and have apologized for being a disappointment to them and that I am working to be a better husband and man,. Jason, I think that is a real good start and you are definitely on the right path. You can get more micro using the SAA book and workbook when the time comes, but your plan makes sense. The only thing I would add is exposure to your kids. They need to be told the truth about what happened. Kids can deal with the truth, they can't deal with lies. It's even more critical in your case because your kids probably KNOW this woman. Check this out: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php/topics/3003113/1.html
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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OW has a son. He knows everything also. He is a senior here at school. My kids know that i was with her they just don�t know details.
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OW has a son. He knows everything also. He is a senior here at school. My kids know that i was with her they just don�t know details. Do they know you had an affair with her? And what are their thoughts about your affair?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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They no that we were together. So I am assuming they know that I had an affair. I haven't sat down and said I have had an affair. I have talked about the poor choices I have made and that I want to make things right and work for them and their mother.
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They no that we were together. So I am assuming they know that I had an affair. I haven't sat down and said I have had an affair. I have talked about the poor choices I have made and that I want to make things right and work for them and their mother. I would strongly suggest you give them the full facts. They are not stupid and soft selling it this way grossly minimizes the impact of what has happened. Do they believe that adultery is an acceptable lifestyle choice? I was taught this as a child and it was horribly confusing.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Have your kids or your wife confronted the OW?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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No. They know what i did was wrong. As far as confronting the OW my wife has with me. That was an interesting evening i can tell you. Ended up being very therapeutic to be honest.
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No. They know what i did was wrong. As far as confronting the OW my wife has with me. That was an interesting evening i can tell you. Ended up being very therapeutic to be honest. Therapeutic for your wife?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Both of us. Everything was on the table. She felt better afterwards at least that�s what she told me. Then we were standing in the driveway and she asked me do i want the OW or her. And i told her i am all about working for my wife and my marriage.
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Both of us. Everything was on the table. She felt better afterwards at least that�s what she told me. Then we were standing in the driveway and she asked me do i want the OW or her. And i told her i am all about working for my wife and my marriage. How long was your affair? What happened to bring it into the open? Where did you live when you moved out? Where do you live now?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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A little over a month. I was and still living with a friend of mine. He has a studio apt on the backside of his house. I left and told my wife about everything.
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Do your children also go to your school, along with OWs son? Even if you transfer to another school, won�t you have a chance of running into OW at the school your children attend together? And does your wife also work at the same school, in which case she is the guidance counselor for OWs son? Does she intend to transfer also?
Honestly, you may have to consider moving all together. It is far more complicated if you not only all work together, but also kids from both sides attend. There are far too many triggers for your wife to recover there.
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OW has a son. He knows everything also. He is a senior here at school. My kids know that i was with her they just don�t know details. Youve said they know its wrong. I think it would be very reassuring to them if you told them that you know so too, that they can ask you about it, that you apologise for it and that you realize they need to be supportive of their mother, and wary of you. That you realize you need to prove yourself.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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I have told them i know it�s wrong many times. I have also opened the doors for questions. They haven�t asked a whole lot of questions. They may as time goes by. I have told them that i need to prove myself to them. So we will see how it goes. All i am working on is myself to be better for them and their mother.
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Yes they go to school together. The OW son is a senior and will be gone in two months. The Ow could be gone at the end of the year also. At least that is what i am hearing. I have cut off all contact so i haven�t talked to the OW at all.
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I left and told my wife about everything. Hmmm. Why did you leave OW, and why did you suddenly confess to your wife? Did the OW threaten to out you if you didn't commit to her? I only ask because waywards rarely confess out of the blue and out of the goodness of their heart. Usually there is a crisis that forces the confession. So what was it? Also your wife deserves to know this, as well. How long was your affair? Where did you meet for sex? Did OW ever come to your home?
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It was wrong. I guess i cane to my senses and wanted to try and work it out with my wife. OW never threatened me at all. She understood that i had to try. My wife had an idea that there was something going on when we separated. So i told her everything. The affair lasted about 6 weeks. We went to her house.
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It was wrong. I guess i cane to my senses and wanted to try and work it out with my wife. OW never threatened me at all. She understood that i had to try. My wife had an idea that there was something going on when we separated. So i told her everything. The affair lasted about 6 weeks. We went to her house. How long had the affair been going on before you left? The affair had obviously been going on for some time in order for you to fall in love enough to abandon your marriage. And what do you mean you came to your senses? What happened? What led you to tell your wife and end the affair?
Last edited by MelodyLane; 03/12/18 07:22 AM.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I realized what I was doing was not only right but it is not where I belonged. Not to mention it wasn't love. I thought it was or convinced myself it was at the time. My wife thought there was something going on and when I decided to try and go back I had to put everything on the table, which I did. I don't think I am going to get the opportunity to make it right and save the marriage. That is a gut feeling and it is my fault.
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I realized what I was doing was not only right but it is not where I belonged. Not to mention it wasn't love. I thought it was or convinced myself it was at the time. My wife thought there was something going on and when I decided to try and go back I had to put everything on the table, which I did. I don't think I am going to get the opportunity to make it right and save the marriage. That is a gut feeling and it is my fault. What makes you think she won't give you another chance? Has she said this?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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No. She is just very angry and hurt. Understandibly so. I hope it just takes time until she brings down her walls and lets me back in to work on our marriage.
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Does she want you to stay moved out or will she let you move back in?
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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No. She is just very angry and hurt. Understandibly so. I hope it just takes time until she brings down her walls and lets me back in to work on our marriage. She will be watching you to see how safe a bet you are so the timing is on you
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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Brain Hurts - As of now I am still living with a friend of mine. My wife and kids are moving into a new house in mid April. She said for right now it will be her and the kids. She said to me a few weeks ago that she thinks that she needs to see that I wont give up when it gets hard and run back to the OW. I can tell you right now it is very hard. It is very hard being away from her and also not really having a home. I am working on myself and staying the course.
Indie Girl - yes she is watching me. Even though she says she doesn't want to. Last week she texted me at about 8:30 pm and asked me where I was. Her find my iphone app wasn't working and she wanted to know where I was. I was on my couch that I have been sleeping on for the last couple months at my friends house. Then she texted me on Sunday morning and said "no church today. 3x and your good" I said no I am not and that I was going to the 11 am service. time change kicked my butt so I was a little late to church. So even though she says she doesn't want to check on me she is and she is still thinking about me. Good sign I hope. I also told her I wasn't giving up. She asks me that from time to time.
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Your wife is putting your marriage at risk with this approach. She is actually preventing you from affair proofing your marriage at a very, very vulnerable time. That is like asking the "recovering" alcoholic to stay in the bar for awhile to see if he resists the temptation. That is not a test of will but a test of stupidity.
You are much less likely to mess up if you are with her. You are both wasting very valuable time that could be devoted to affair proofing and recovering your marriage.
Instead of sitting in the bar to see if you will get drunk, you should get your butt out of the bar and start going to AA immediately. You are both wasting time! The longer you wait to start a plan of recovery is the longer it will take to recover your marriage.
I am asking you to send her this message on my behalf. I would be happy to discuss with her if you send her here.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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She said to me a few weeks ago that she thinks that she needs to see that I wont give up when it gets hard and run back to the OW. I can tell you right now it is very hard. It is very hard being away from her and also not really having a home. I am working on myself and staying the course. She needs to put a plan in place that will make it virtually impossible for you to run back to the OW. That is what we do here, we affair proof your marriage instead of relying on willpower. You have already proven you don't have willpower. Not having a plan, makes it more likely that your marriage will fail! Not a good plan!
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I understand. I have a plan for me. I will not run back to the OW. I am afraid if I push she won't give us a chance at all. I have sent her the link to this site a couple of times. I have no idea if she has read any of the articles or not. She is still trying to figure out what she wants to do. Whether she wants to try and save the marriage or not. She gave me a chance a four weeks ago when I was in the withdrawal phase and I emailed the OW. It was so stupid.. So now she won't let me back in until she figures out what she wants to do. But like I said I have a plan in place for me and I have been doing nothing but reading articles and listening to audio books on how to survive an affair and also on how to be a better husband. I feel like thats all I can do right now. It sucks because I want to do so much more.
Last edited by jason79; 03/13/18 12:57 PM.
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She gave me a chance a four weeks ago when I was in the withdrawal phase and I emailed the OW. I don't think you told us about this anywhere in this thread. You've been painting a picture of a man who has done all he can, whose wife has been completely unresponsive. It appears that this picture is not true. This is a major, significant piece of information that you have withheld from us. You've already shown your wife that she should not give you another chance. Why should she ever risk going through that again?
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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You are right. I completely failed to mention that. That is my fault. I did come clean with her on the email I sent also. So even though I deleted it I told her about them. I apologize for not talking about the email. You are also right and if she doesn't give me another chance then that is on me and I understand that also. I do know that reading all of these articles and threads have been helpful to me as a person. All I can do now is try to get better for myself and if I get the opportunity to save our marriage then I will be ready to do that.
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I am doing everything I can. That email was 4 weeks ago. To her it still hurts. So let me ask you this. Do you think there is no hope? I read some of the articles on here and people survive multiple affairs. I had 1, which is 1 too many. Unfortunately I made a big mistake and I will have to deal with what comes next.
I think i was just trying to forget the email existed. I wish in that withdrawal phase I didn't do that.
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You should have been there the night My wife , me and OW sat down and had a conversation at the OW's house. That was very interesting. This conversation took place after the email. And at the end of the conversation outside my wife asked me to pick, her or the OW. I told her that I wanted us to work out.
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So timeline goes line goes like this.
Break up with OW on Feb 7th
Contact wife on Feb 8th
Tough conversations the 8th thru 10th
Wife invites me over on 10th
Have a great weekend and the next 4 days
Saturday the 17th email the OW before my counseling appointment - (Stupid)
Got printouts of email on the 20th
Went to the OW's house with my wife on Feb 22nd (interesting conversation) - Same night my wife tells me to make a choice
Went back to my friends house to sleep on Feb 25th and have been there ever since.
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There has been zero contact since Feb 7 when i broke it off and left. Was this true, or did this email contact take place after February 7th?
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His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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The email was on the 17th. There was no conversation between OW and me via this email. I did t feel it was contact if i didn�t talk to her. Is that wrong? My wife contacted her and set up the meeting at her house. I have not talked to her one time other than the meeting with my wife and her.
Since the email on the 17 i have not tried to contact her at all.
Last edited by jason79; 03/13/18 04:45 PM.
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I understand. I have a plan for me. I will not run back to the OW. I am afraid if I push she won't give us a chance at all. I have sent her the link to this site a couple of times. I have no idea if she has read any of the articles or not. She is still trying to figure out what she wants to do. Whether she wants to try and save the marriage or not. She gave me a chance a four weeks ago when I was in the withdrawal phase and I emailed the OW. It was so stupid.. So now she won't let me back in until she figures out what she wants to do. But like I said I have a plan in place for me and I have been doing nothing but reading articles and listening to audio books on how to survive an affair and also on how to be a better husband. I feel like thats all I can do right now. It sucks because I want to do so much more. This is not a plan. Saying you won�t run to the OW are meaningless words. That is why I am trying to get you to sell her on a plan. And no, people don�t survive multiple affairs. Most divorce over it. The reason is because mutilple affairs indicates someone who is looking for action. No marriage program can overcome that.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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The email was on the 17th. There was no conversation between OW and me via this email. I did t feel it was contact if i didn’t talk to her. Is that wrong? My wife contacted her and set up the meeting at her house. I have not talked to her one time other than the meeting with my wife and her.
Since the email on the 17 i have not tried to contact her at all. Sending the OW an email is breaking the "no contact" rule, it doesn't matter that she didn't respond. What has been done to prevent you from emailing her again?
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That makes sense. I have since deleted my private account that the OW has access to. So there is no emailing the only email that was sent was on Feb 17. I know saying i won�t run to her is not a plan. I have a binder with my plans in it for avoiding Re occurrence and for falling in love. The plan is written and ready to be shared with my wife.
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That makes sense. I have since deleted my private account that the OW has access to. So there is no emailing the only email that was sent was on Feb 17. I know saying i won�t run to her is not a plan. I have a binder with my plans in it for avoiding Re occurrence and for falling in love. The plan is written and ready to be shared with my wife. I hope that "I promise not to do it again" is not on that list, because that is not a plan. The most important item on that list must be: 1. I will never ever have contact with the OW again for life. That is STEP ONE. Until that step is taken, you can't go onto next steps. As of yet you and the OW still work at the same place. What is going on with the transfer?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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As of yet you and the OW still work at the same place. What is going on with the transfer? Jason, if you are talking about having a binder full of your plan on how to protect your BW from the OW but still going to the same workplace as the OW, then you are not understanding what NC means. You are not understanding what Extraordinary Precautions mean or Extraordinary Care. Every day you go to the workplace where the OW is, you are putting your M at serious risk - not only at risk for the affair to re-start, but each and every time you will be triggering and hurting your BW immensely. When can NC (no longer working with OW) actually be established? That's where 100% of your focus needs to be right now.
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I have a binder with my plans in it for avoiding Re occurrence and for falling in love. The plan is written and ready to be shared with my wife. You need to be very careful about talking to your BW about falling in love or meeting each other's needs when you haven't even established NC yet. The thought of having to meet my ex WH's needs when he was still working with the OW made me extremely angry. Extremely.
Last edited by SusieQ; 03/13/18 06:06 PM.
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I understand. I have a plan for me. I will not run back to the OW. What Dr Harley would tell you is that this is not true - that as long as you have the ability to cross paths easily with the OW, you will be at high risk for starting the affair again. He says even men who completely recover their M years later can run into the OW and fall into the affair very easily all over again. You are not safe until you or the OW are completely and permanentlyout of that workplace (her being on leave right now does not count). I think your BW senses this and that's why she will not let her guard down with you right now.
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You should have been there the night My wife , me and OW sat down and had a conversation at the OW's house. That was very interesting. This conversation took place after the email. And at the end of the conversation outside my wife asked me to pick, her or the OW. I told her that I wanted us to work out. What was this conversation about? Was it your wife's idea for you all to sit down and talk? I haven't come across a betrayed spouse doing that before. What was there to discuss, and how long did it take? What did your wife way when you said you "wanted us to work out" when she told you to choose? Since she told you to choose and you chose your wife, why haven't things moved closer since then?
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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Agreed. No that is not step one. The transfer is still being discussed in education it is not that simple to just switch schools
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Susie Q- the plan to fall in love is stuff i want to do for my wife. It will be for me to refer to. Like i said transferring in education is not that easy. And my wife doesn�t want me to transfer. She wants me to be there for our kids but i know i need to go somewhere else.
My wife asked me if i would sit with her and the OW and talk. My wife had some questions she needed to ask. It was a cordial conversation.the conversation lasted about 45 min or so. When i told her that i wanted to work on us she said get in the car and let�s go home. My wife�s emotions are up and down day to day. Like today was a good day. Conversation was very good.
I have put pieces in place to make sure that i don�t contact the OW again. I just need to get a transfer worked out or just apply for a new job at a different school.
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After we went back home after the conversation she asked me to sleep on the couch. I stayed there for a couple days because my truck was having issues. My father in law let me borrow his truck for a few days and when that happened my wife said she needed her space and that i should head to my friends house. Been there ever since. That was feb 25th during closing ceremonies of the olympics.
Last edited by jason79; 03/13/18 08:01 PM.
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I just need to get a transfer worked out or just apply for a new job at a different school. The above will determine the success or failure of your marriage. How far does the OW live from you? You said your principal knows about this affair, but I am astonished that the OW still has a job. As a "counselor," can't she lose her license for having an affair with a married man and the father of her students? A counselor should know better.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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She lives about 10 miles away. As a school counselor you don�t need a license. You get a credential and that is different then private practice.
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She lives about 10 miles away. As a school counselor you don�t need a license. You get a credential and that is different then private practice. Are basic ethics a requirement for her credentials? Is it ok for her to commit adultery with her students parents? And 10 miles away is wonderful. That way you can be running into her for years to come in an on again, off again affair.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Just so you know, having her live right by you will be a major impediment to recovery. Every time you or your wife see her will put you back to day 1 of recovery. You are facing an on again, off again for years. Dr. Harley recommends moving away so this doesn't happen. Once an affair is first revealed, whether it's discovered or admitted, the victimized spouse is usually in a state of shock. The first reaction is usually panic, but it's quickly followed by anger. Divorce and sometimes even murder are contemplated. But after some time passes (usually about three weeks), most couples decide that they will try to pull together and save their marriage.
The one having an affair is in no position to bargain, but he or she usually tries anyway. The bargaining effort usually boils down to somehow keeping the lover in the loop. You'd think that the unfaithful spouse would be so aware of his or her weaknesses, and so aware of the pain inflicted, that every effort would be made to avoid further contact with the lover as an act of thoughtfulness to the stunned spouse. But instead, the unfaithful spouse argues that the relationship was "only sexual" or was "emotional but not sexual" or some other peculiar description to prove that continued contact with the lover would be okay.
Most victimized spouses intuitively understand that all contact with a lover must end for life. Permanent separation not only helps prevent a renewal of the affair, but it is also a crucial gesture of consideration to someone who has been through hell. What victimized spouse would ever want to know that his or her spouse is seeing or communicating with a former lover at work or in some other activity?
In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure.
Look at M.S.'s husband. Here he is, thousands of miles from his lover, and yet he still feels compelled to call her. Can you imagine the trouble M.S. would have had separating them if they had not moved? Their move was the best thing that could have happened to their marriage because it not only revealed the affair, but it also set up the conditions that would make ending it possible -- total separation.
We don't know if R.J. still sees his lover, but he says he has broken off all contact. In many cases where a person is still in town, that's hard to prove. But one thing's for sure, if he ever does see his lover, it will put him in a state of perpetual withdrawal from his addiction, and make the resolution of his marriage essentially impossible. In fact, one of the reasons he is not recovering after three months of separation may be that he is not being truthful about the separation.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I don�t want to have another affair. This one has done enough damage. I just want my wife back which may never happen and i will have to live with that. I assume full responsibility for all of this.
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I don�t want to have another affair. This one has done enough damage. I just want my wife back which may never happen and i will have to live with that. I assume full responsibility for all of this. I hope you are willing to assume full responsibility for it by taking the necessary steps to ensure your marriage is affair proofed. I haven't seen any sign of that yet. To be honest, I don't see that you take that very seriously and would rather sweep it under the rug and get on with your life where you live by and work with the OW. Even if you left that district, you still live 10 miles from the Love Nest and can always resume the affair at the snap of a finger. And living right by her, you will be perpetually triggered which makes it very unlikely the affair will ever end.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Just saying " I will never see OW again" when you still work with her and live 10 minutes away is ludicrous.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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It was a cordial conversation. I cannot imagine this and doubt your wife would describe the conversation as "cordial". I don�t want to have another affair. Nobody wants to have an(other) affair, but lots of people do. You will have to make drastic changes so you won't be able to do it again. Are you listening to the radio show?
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So how do i move away if my wife won�t move with me? She won�t even let me back in the house. Yes i am listening to the show and i also have a few books i downloaded on Audible and have been listening to them also.
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I have sent her the link to this site a couple of times. Tell her that we can help her keep better track of you. Tell her that you don't want blind trust and welcome more full on check ups. Tracking your phone, especially since you are aware of it is...the right path but pretty weak. It won't be reassuring enough.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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I don�t want to have another affair. This one has done enough damage. I just want my wife back which may never happen and i will have to live with that. I assume full responsibility for all of this. Even if you survive an encounter with OW, your wife could run into her. For those of us who have been betrayed, it's like running into our rapist. Years of recovery work would be undone and she'd go back to day #1 of resentment. So how do i move away if my wife won�t move with me? She won�t even let me back in the house. Yes i am listening to the show and i also have a few books i downloaded on Audible and have been listening to them also. Your wife needs to be away from her even if she never recovers the marriage. She probably does not entirely realise the effect OW has on her because shes in the early stages of shock. Has she agreed on the new house already? How far is she from OW? Can you get out your best sales pitch and a) encourage her to move away from OW? b) Encourage her to come here for support in healing?
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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I understand. I will do my best on getting her on the site to heal and get some help. I am totally open to the full on check ups that you speak of. i welcome them. Yes, her and the kids will be moving into the new house at the end of April. About the same distance from the OW.
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I understand. I will do my best on getting her on the site to heal and get some help. I am totally open to the full on check ups that you speak of. i welcome them. Yes, her and the kids will be moving into the new house at the end of April. About the same distance from the OW. Have you been tested for STDs?
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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I understand. I will do my best on getting her on the site to heal and get some help. I am totally open to the full on check ups that you speak of. i welcome them. Yes, her and the kids will be moving into the new house at the end of April. About the same distance from the OW. Honestly, this is a disaster. In order for your marriage to ever recover you are going to have to move away. I want to clarify what indiegirl meant when she said "Even if you survive an encounter with OW" because you won't. Every encounter will put you back to Day 1 of recovery., Every day you walk out the door could be the day you resume your affair because your feelings will be perpetually triggered by seeing her. It is imperative you sit down with your wife and explain what it will take to save your marriage. You will not be able to sweep this under the rug and carry on as usual. You won't make it.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Brain Hurts - Yes. I'm clean
MelodyLane - I completely understand.
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I understand. I will do my best on getting her on the site to heal and get some help. I am totally open to the full on check ups that you speak of. i welcome them. Yes, her and the kids will be moving into the new house at the end of April. About the same distance from the OW. Honestly, this is a disaster. In order for your marriage to ever recover you are going to have to move away. I want to clarify what indiegirl meant when she said "Even if you survive an encounter with OW" because you won't. Every encounter will put you back to Day 1 of recovery., Every day you walk out the door could be the day you resume your affair because your feelings will be perpetually triggered by seeing her. It is imperative you sit down with your wife and explain what it will take to save your marriage. You will not be able to sweep this under the rug and carry on as usual. You won't make it. Yeah exactly. You might not immediately skip up to her or go home with her but you won't be able to escape the triggers of such an encounter. Nor will your wife. Since you need to persuade her to get away from OW you might want to have this discussion about how disgusted she would be by reminders. Don't use words like cordial to describe such potential encounters!. How exactly is she going to feel if she runs into her in the supermarket? Really? How will she feel if she hears YOU ran into her at the supermarket? If she tries to brazen it out with descriptions of how she thinks she *should* feel, then lead the way and describe how YOU would feel triggered. This is the worst thing you've ever done. You don't want to run smack bang into it again and again.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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Thank you so much for helping me with wording in conversations. I have really been trying to take into account the situation as a whole and put everything on me and really try to be considerate of her and her feelings. So thank you for your help and guidance. I sent her the link again to get into a forum and talk to people that have actually been through these situations. I don't know if she has accessed it at all. She talks to a friend of hers who has never been married and has a very negative perspective of everything and I don't believe she is a very good support for my wife. Then again maybe she is. I don't know.
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From experience, and what I've seen of advice given to others...
If people haven't gone through betrayal, they don't get it. It can actually be quite annoying and deeply upsetting to have people tell you how you *should* feel and I am talking about people I love, still love, who were successfully married and who were supportive and positive. They do get it now!
There is absolutely nothing else out there like this site. Dr H is the Einstein of infidelity and the personal experiences of vets here is unparalleled.
I hope she checks out the link. She'd have to have no sense of curiosity not to.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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Thank you so much for helping me with wording in conversations. I have really been trying to take into account the situation as a whole and put everything on me and really try to be considerate of her and her feelings. So thank you for your help and guidance. I sent her the link again to get into a forum and talk to people that have actually been through these situations. I don't know if she has accessed it at all. She talks to a friend of hers who has never been married and has a very negative perspective of everything and I don't believe she is a very good support for my wife. Then again maybe she is. I don't know. I don't think your wife will take her advice if she is giving her bad advice. At the end of the day, your wife has too much to lose. What does she do for a living? In the meantime, I would keep fighting for your wife and keep sending her letters. Be as loving as possible and tell her you desperately miss her. She needs to be reassured that you value her over this skanky OW. [sorry, but she is a skank, no other way to describe a woman who fools around with a married man]
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I agree. The words I choose now for conversation are very careful as to never tell my wife how to feel. I just validate and let her know that I am fighting for her everyday.
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My wife is an instructional assistant for special needs students. I told her this morning that she is what I am fighting for and that I have done a lot of research and reading and counseling sessions to better myself. I can truly say that I am a different man than i was just 3 months ago. By no means do I feel that I am done with my journey of self discovery and betterment. That will be an ongoing process for the rest of my life. In order to make my wife happy and be the man that she deserves I feel I need to do that not only for me but for her also. No need to be sorry about the "skank" comment. I understand that also.
My old football coach use to say to us , " Falling is not failing, failing to get up is failing" I am going to get up everyday and fight for the love of my wife, because I know deep down that I love and miss her terribly.
Indiegirl and Melody Lane - I can't thank you enough for your words of guidance, honesty and encouragement.
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I agree. The words I choose now for conversation are very careful as to never tell my wife how to feel. I just validate and let her know that I am fighting for her everyday. Superb. I don't think your wife will take her advice if she is giving her bad advice. At the end of the day, your wife has too much to lose. I so agree. Her wariness with you has signalled to me that she's a smart cookie who will hold you to account and who takes infidelity seriously. I would be quite hopeless if she belonged to the more desperate variety we see sometimes. I think she would see the sense in the plans here and they would suit her style. My wife is an instructional assistant for special needs students. . Oh cool, me too. I'm going to take a stab at this: she doesn't get paid much, its super rewarding work and it gives her time to focus on family
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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She does love her job but yes it doesn�t make very much money. I hope she feels that she has too much to lose. It�s so hard right now because i have learned so much about myself and relationships in the past month in reading and listening and talking to u guys. I just want to show her how i have changed and what i can offer. I know i can be better and never fall into the trap of infidelity again. I need to stay the course for as long as that takes.
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There are some married people who treat marriage like a side project while they focus on other things, but I am guessing your wife is one of those who has really invested in her marriage. She won't be coming back for lack of money, but because she doesn't want to see her investment and plans go up in smoke.
I think Melody Lane hit it on the head when she said she'd have a lot to lose. She won't follow an investment that's gone bad, but make her an offer she can't refuse and she'll likely go for it.
One thing about her line of work is that it's usually in demand (She can get a job quickly anywhere) and her salary would probably float you for a while as you were looking? Theoretically?
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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I believe we both have a lot to lose. I am having a real tough time trying to be patient. If i force anything it won�t work. I have been totally transparent about everything and i continue to be. I feel like everything i do is not helping. I also feel like i need to do more but i am not sure what that is. I sent her another letter and will continue to do things like that and let her know that i am fighting for her and for our marriage.
Her check would not be able to float our groceries let alone all the other bills we have. Money is a tough thing right now also. All i want is to show her how much I�ve learned and changed. I have listened to a couple of Dr Harley�s books. Been good for me It will only help me if i get to show her.
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How often do you see her? What about the kids? Do you see them on a regular schedule? Are you able to meet any of her needs? What are her top ENs?
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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I believe we both have a lot to lose. I am having a real tough time trying to be patient. If i force anything it won�t work. I have been totally transparent about everything and i continue to be. I feel like everything i do is not helping. I also feel like i need to do more but i am not sure what that is. I sent her another letter and will continue to do things like that and let her know that i am fighting for her and for our marriage.
Her check would not be able to float our groceries let alone all the other bills we have. Money is a tough thing right now also. All i want is to show her how much I�ve learned and changed. I have listened to a couple of Dr Harley�s books. Been good for me It will only help me if i get to show her. Jason, what has been her reaction to you? What is stopping her from trying to recover your marriage? Does she want a divorce? Are you seeing your kids? How often and where?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I think your wife is probably in shock and is waiting for someone to hand her back her old life. She's waiting for trust to materialise.
She doesn't know what to do, so she watches you very carefully but doesn't act.
She's on the rollercoaster that everyone familiar with betrayal knows about. One day she wants divorce, next day she wants things the way they were.
But this inactivity won't help her.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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Well she told me this weekend that she is out of chances. So then i asked her if she was going to file for divorce and she told me that she wanted to be separated. She is still very angry with me.
She also asked if i was going to run back to the OW now. O told her no and that i wasn�t going to stop fighting for her even though i feel like it�s a lost cause.
Why would she be concerned if i was going to run back to the OW if she is done with me? It�s confusing me.
I see her everyday and i see my kids everyday also.
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Well she told me this weekend that she is out of chances. So then i asked her if she was going to file for divorce and she told me that she wanted to be separated. She is still very angry with me.
She also asked if i was going to run back to the OW now. O told her no and that i wasn’t going to stop fighting for her even though i feel like it’s a lost cause.
Why would she be concerned if i was going to run back to the OW if she is done with me? It’s confusing me.
I see her everyday and i see my kids everyday also. Jason, just stay the course and keep trying. As the sting wears off she will warm up to you if you keep trying. A betrayed wife needs to see that her husband is willing to fight for it. Also, I can't emphasize this enough that you MUST find another job out of that school. You cannot EVER see the OW again. That threat needs to be removed from your wife.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I�m not going to quit as hard as this is. I will continue to fight for her. Thank you for the positive thinking.
Yes i agree. I am trying now to become a principal at an elementary school that will get me away from the OW completely.
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I�m not going to quit as hard as this is. I will continue to fight for her. Thank you for the positive thinking.
Yes i agree. I am trying now to become a principal at an elementary school that will get me away from the OW completely. While you�re trying to get out of that job are you trying to meet her ENs? What are her top ENs?
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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I�m not going to quit as hard as this is. I will continue to fight for her. Thank you for the positive thinking.
Yes i agree. I am trying now to become a principal at an elementary school that will get me away from the OW completely. Promising! How long will that take? How far away from OW will it take you? As you can see from DWs current stance, she's not done with you but she IS unsure of you. This is mostly caused by the feeling that OW is in the wings as revealed by her telling comment. And she is not wrong. OW is very close to hand. How are your kids likely to feel staying at a school with OW and her kids? That would distress me in your kids shoes. Even if OW and co were to go It was ground zero for the affair. It keeps bad memories and a bad atmosphere of OW constantly present amongst your family. Do you think your wife would consult Dr H about the effects of this fall out? Of the measures needed to help them? I get the impression that she wants your focus on their well-being and she wants actions from you which reject any contact with OW. I would like to see all your family far away from OW.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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Brain Hurts - She will not really speak to me right now so that makes it difficult to meet any needs. Also I am still sleeping on a couch at my friends house. Her top need is quality time and conversation, so that is tough to meet when she doesn't want me there right now.
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Indiegirl - Depending on which Elementary it is it could take me at least 20 or so miles away. I hope you are right that she is not done with me. My kids like the school and Are excited about being Junior and sophomore next year. OW 's kid is graduating in June and will be gone.
I don't know if she would consult with Dr. H - I did download his book his needs her needs on Audible. I gave her the password so she can access the info. That book has a lot in it about the important needs and if they are not met, and how you can meet them and things like that. I have listened to it a lot. I hope she listens to it. I don't feel that I was equipped with the knowledge of communication of needs that the book talks about. I wish I had listened to that book months ago.
I continue to let her know where I am and what I am doing. I am going to email her the site again.
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Have you read Surviving an Affair?
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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Brainy is right, you're reading the wrong book for your situation. HNHN is great for non infidelity situations but you can't talk about any of that stuff you've learned with your wife. Talking to her about better communicating with her on how she could meet your needs would NOT go down well, I'm sure you can imagine.
SAA focuses more on boundaries with the opposite sex and paying just compensation. This is what you need right now.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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I haven�t talked to her about any of that stuff. There are a couple chapters on affairs those are the ones I�ve listened to. I just purchased the SAA. Haven�t started listening yet.
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I haven't talked to her about any of that stuff. ...
Also, you'll read some stuff in SAA that may make sense to you as an explanation of how you let yourself get into an affair. It'll help you get your own head straight. But don't even think about going there with your wife anytime soon, because while an explanation isn't an excuse, the one can sound a lot like the other.
You've got a tougher hill to climb than I had, because you're out of the house. So I don't have much to offer you yet. You need to figure out what needs of hers you can meet, even if it's stuff like chores or help with the kids. You need to be at her service, and communicating no expectations of her.
But the biggest thing is making yourself seem like a less emotionally-risky choice for her, and that means verifiably putting physical distance between you and the OW, and between you and the risks of accidental or deliberate contact.
Good luck.
Me: FWH, 50
My BW: Trust_Will_Come, 52, tall, beautiful & heart of gold
DD23, DS19
EA-then-PA Oct'08-Jan'09
Broke it off & confessed to BW (after OW's H found out) Jan.7 2009
Married 25 years & counting.
Grateful for forgiveness. Working to be a better husband.
"I wear the chain I forged in life... I made it link by link, and yard by yard" ~Jacob Marley's ghost, A Christmas Carol
"Do it again & you're out on your [bum]." ~My BW, Jan.7 2009
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I'm so pleased Glove Oil is here!
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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He fell off the wagon, didn't he? So disappointing...
BW (Me): 39
FWH: 39
DD: 5
DS: 3
D-Day 1: 5/8/17
Plan B started: 6/19/17
For real: 11/13/17-4/3/18
Affair ended: 3/25/18
DD 2: 2/14/20
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