This is my situation and I don�t know what to do next. Here is the timeline:
WS was asked to work in USA July �08, initially for 3 weeks, extended to December then March �09, then July �09 then Sept �09 and now until �?
WS came home in August �08 � everything fine. September �08 � everything fine. At this point he is asking me when I am going to come out to visit. I couldn�t get the time off work which is now, obviously, a big regret of mine.
October �08 we have a two week holiday in Japan. Fine, but on reflection, very little passion. I suggest that WH doesn�t come home in November due to the jetlag so he waits until Christmas.
At Christmas, he is like a different person. His own family thought that he was on drugs because he was so rude and cold hearted. I start to have real fears of OW and ask him if he wants a divorce. He says no.
He didn�t want to visit in February, suggesting that he goes on holiday with his brother, as he normally would. Unfortunately, I gave him an ultimatum regarding us and he came home. However, his behaviour towards me was worse than before. Lots of AOs and DJs. He tells me that he is in MLC, doesn�t know how long it will take and whether he would even like himself at the end of it.
April �09 he comes home for a very short time, is very distant. I am in despair so I engineer a conversation which results in him telling me about how he had been engaging in ONSs. He suggests that we tell people that we are separated and that we can date other people. In my distressed state, I agree but later change my mind.
I find MB, read everything I can get my hands on and implement Plan A from a distance. We have a holiday planned for June and I see this as my opportunity to Plan A in person. During this time, WS seems to be surprisingly O&H. I ask if he has an OW and he says no.
We go on holiday and WS admits that he has stopped ONSs because he was scaring himself and he has narrowed down to one or two regular women. One, in particular, contacts him constantly. Apart from that, and a couple of bad arguments regarding the affair, we had a good, fulfilling holiday.
WS decides to stick with OW. I suspect that this is because the OOW lost interest. I expose to some of my family, both of his brothers, uncle and all his friends that I have contact details for. I also contact OWH but she is already in divorce proceedings and he is not interested. OW is 2 years younger, no job, teenage son, not as attractive as me, mostly interested in drinking and gambling. She is bi-sexual and doesn�t mind if WS has OOW as long as she is involved. (This is only what WS has told me but from observations I think it is true). He also tells me that he has cheated on her and looks for opportunities to do so again.
WS introduces OW to his brother in US and they welcome her with open arms!
I start coaching with Steve Harley. I have had 5 sessions in total and WS had one in July. Steve says that Plan B will not work for us and I should stick with Plan A as long as I feel able. I have been sending e-cards, links to news items, snail mail cards and photos, music cds, dvd recordings of his favourite tv programmes and IMs maybe every other day.
I visit WS in August but have to stay in a hotel due to OW and her son staying at his apartment. She now stays every other week due to custody of son. We see each other every day and do things together as we used to: restaurants, dancing, boxing, running. OW confronted us at the end of the week accusing us of acting like a married couple and if he said the word, she would move all her stuff out. Then quickly changed that to if you don�t tell me you are getting a divorce, I will move my stuff out. I don�t know what he said to her because he didn�t ask for a divorce and they are still together.
WS and OW go on holiday. WS sends me an impersonal birthday card (I did say that I would like one).
Last week, we had a conversation where he said he asks himself whether he is happy but doesn�t know the answer so lives each day as it comes. He is in UK this week, with OW, staying at our flat in London so I asked if we would see each other. He said it would be awkward.
Two days later, he is back on the �We are separated� line. The usual �I have changed, I don�t know what I want, We want different things.� He said he didn�t see a future with me. He has told OW that their relationship may not be long term. It is early days � only 4 months, he says. I agreed that he had changed, as we all do but didn�t see why it would stop us reconciling. I said that I knew a way; I have read the success stories. He countered with, I am sure it works when both people believe that it will. This is a change from his previous statements that MB is a cult and that it is all rubbish. Unfortunately, I was so stressed at this point that I said well, if you are so certain that we don�t have a future why don�t you pick up divorce papers this week? But then I contradicted myself and said that if he really wasn�t sure, then I was prepared to wait. He asked me what I wanted, and I said �You�. I expressed my desire to live in US with him until the end of the assignment. I know that he wants to live there permanently and have no issue with that. But I don�t want, even though I could for a short while on my savings, to go out there without his agreement. He said he didn�t want me to come out because he didn�t want to risk losing her. I asked if he was happier with her than he ever was with me and he said "no, but I have changed".
On Steve�s advice I went to the flat on Saturday to be there when they arrived. She was visibly put out by my presence, he let out a nervous laugh and bundled her upstairs. We had an amenable conversation. He asked me if I thought he had lost weight and I said he looked great, I was proud of him because he must have worked really hard. He allowed me to stroke his arms while we talked, although it was mostly me talking. I said how I had grown and made new friends and reconnected with my sisters etc. I said that if he wasn�t sure what he wanted it might be helpful to talk to someone independent of the situation and that I was saying this as his best friend. He looked away said �I�m happy� then looked back. Then he let me hug him, which he did in USA but he also let me kiss his neck, which he wouldn�t in USA. As I was leaving he asked for the keys to the flat. I said no, but I promise not to come in this week. He said he wanted to give them to his brother and I said sorry, no. He has only asked for the keys once before and that was when he was with his brother, SIL and OW so I think OW may have told him to ask me for them.
So, my question is, what do I do now? I feel as if I am living two lives. I am imagining life without him, what I want to do, where I would live but I still feel that I would be happier living my life with him. Some days, I think about contacting a solicitor and then the next, I am being understanding of his own emotional turmoil and just wishing he would come out of it. I am in a place where I accept that he may never want to be with me but I don�t want to give up hope. Can anyone see any hope in this situation? Can anyone interpret his actions / words and give me some advice? Thank you
The general rule is six weeks Plan A. Don't forget to expose where effective -By all means chat to the OW to tell her that you are fighting for your WH.
This sets up for Plan B. Take time to read the Plan B letters at this site. When you are ready, have us vet it for you...
Hi imagine,
Thank you for responding. It has been 4 months now of Plan A and Steve Harley said that Plan B would not work for us. I have the strength to continue Plan A from afar if I feel that there is progress to be made but now I am running out of ideas and feel that I would like a break. I have met the OW - twice in USA. She knows that I want to save our marriage. My WS pays for everything for her and they appear to have fun together so I am not surprised that she has not backed down.
Keep leaving messages on his cell phone. News clips. A joke. Do this so that he does not forget who you are.
Don't wear him out with too many texts.
In the meantime, get yourself physically and spiritually in shape. Join a club, sporting institution (preferably violent)and make friends.
Who knows, it may make him jealous.
What kind of exposure did you do to OW's family and friends?
If I were you, I'd go into guerilla warfare with her. hope3343 has some good takes on that.
Why do you want to be married to him? You live on separate continents; why do you want a marriage like that?
I'm sorry if that comes across as argumentative, I truly don't mean it that way. I sincerely want to know what you get out of a marriage when you live so far apart and see each other so rarely. Why did you pick that lifestyle?
imagine: Thanks for the ideas. I do worry about being over the top and know I need to vary my communications. I am very fit and do yoga twice a week. Just got back from dancing tonight. He knows how much I get out and about and the variety of things I do. He always asks what I have done of a weekend. Funnily enough, when MB forum was down, I put my IM status message as "Missing MB". He was instantly on the phone, asking me who MB is?
catperson: I only contacted OWH. I have one resource at my disposal - FB - and expect to play that card at the weekend, when I have more time. If you know of any effective phrases to put in my e-mails, I would like to hear them.
turtlehead: it was never intended that we would live on separate continents. His ridiculous bosses never ascertained how long the assignment would last so I didn't broach the subject of me joining him until March of this year. By then he was living the single lifestyle and didn't want me there. I get zero out of this marriage and am not entirely sure what WS gets that he still calls me or replies to my IMs. I want to be married to him because I love him and he is my best friend. My short term goal is to either get him to agree to me joining him or want to come home of his own free will but I can't see that happening whilst OW is on the scene. She seems to have a lot of influence over him.
Thanks to everyone replying. More please!
I assume that if Plan B does not work for you, you must at least define a date to end Plan A and go Plan D.
Dont let your self drown in Plan A. Specially since you're so limited living so far.
You're only 40. You have so many options to have a good life, and find a nice partner.
lostwillow: I know, I know. I am so close to Plan D, it scares me. Because I don't want it but I don't want to be taken for a ride either. Although he hadn't said it for 4 months, he seemed so convinced last week that there was no future for us, I don't know whether he really believes that or whether he has been listening to OW. He is so easily influenced by other people and hers is a bad one. This is my dilema.
TravelMonkey,
Would you please pop into Brutallyhonest28's thread, please, and tell her your experiences of phone coaching with the Harley's? Just basic things like the timing of the calls and what makes it "coaching" rather than "counselling". She is in the UK too and has not had a good experience with counselling here.
Thank you.
Not a good day today.
A good friend of ours has phoned to tell me he saw WS and OW last week and although he tried to talk to WS on a deeper level, OW was always there and WS kept bringing the conversation back to superficial subjects.
So, eventually friend asked WS outright whether he thought he would ever come back to UK and whether he is happy. WS said he didn't see him returning (I know this is what he wants) and WS said he is happy with his relationship, his job, where he lives. The only thing he is not happy about is that he doesn't get to see his niece and nephew.
I have thoughts on this. a) OW was there so WS is not going to say he is not happy with his relationship, is he? b) He mentioned external things but is he happy within himself? c) If he isn't coming back to UK and is happy why doesn't he start divorce proceedings?
The problem I have is that now a few more people have met him with OW and he certainly has convinced them that he is happy, they are going to say ok then, as long as you are happy you can commit adultery and throw away a 22 year relationship. Or even, why don't you put BS out of her misery and ask for a divorce?
Any encouraging words gratefully received.
Hope someone can give advice in this situation
It is VERY hard to confront someone, especially when they are just friends. Don't put too much faith in anyone else saving your marriage. Either step up exposure and making their A miserable, or just go ahead and file.
It's time to be strong and take action.
Thank you catperson.
I am trying so hard to be strong. I have to go to our flat today to collect some things that WS left for me. I am so scared that I will find my personal belongings stacked up by the door. But I have to be strong and go anyway.
I am going to take action. I have plans that I will carry out very soon.
Well, I went to the flat. My things were still there. Our wedding photo had been hidden behind another but other photos of me were on view.
The really yukky thing though is that the bedclothes which we had left on the bed from our one night in June and the couple of nights from the previous two visits were still on the bed, unwashed!
I don't care what he would have told me, I would have insisted on those sheets being changed. Eeew!
Another gem from my yoga instructor:
It's not about what we can do, or even what we can't. It's about how we react to what's going on.
Most definitely!
I used to get teased a lot (very poor in a rich high school). It finally occurred to me that those kids who teased me must really have some really bad chit in their lives, that they had to tear me down to feel good about themselves.
It helped me to feel sorry for them. Suddenly, I no longer cared. Sure, I wanted to be adored. But not being adored was better than having to destroy other people to survive.
Ok, here is the update.
Yesterday OW posted a comment on a "friend"'s FB wall about what her and WS were up to that w/e. I was upset and called WS regarding a domestic matter at the flat. We talked about that for a while and then I asked what he was doing this w/e? He didn't want to answer and I said I knew anyway. Doesn't he want to know how I know? But he couldn't talk because she was right there.
Unfortunately, this gave me the impetus to contact the few FB friends that I had selected. I got phone calls at 2 am which I didn't answer and eventually took the phone out of the socket. Got a call at work today and WS was very very p*ed. Apparently, 2 of the people I contacted called OW within a few hours of receiving my message, so I'm guessing the situation must have been news to them.
I should post the conversation onto the fogbabble link because he said among other things:
WS: I can't believe you did such a mean thing to upset us.
Me: Pales into comparison against what you have done to me
WS: Who else have you e-mailed?
Me: I'm not telling you (although I did let slip that it was only 3 - damn)
WS: How would you like it if I contact your sisters?
Me: Feel free to. I have done nothing wrong and have nothing to hide.
WS: I don't know who you are anymore
Me: (laughing) you helped make me this way.
WS: It was so vindictive
Me: Then why don't I feel vindicated? If I was being vindictive I would have e-mailed all 89 FB friends
WS: I've got to spend the day sorting out the problems now
Me: If you don't think that you are doing anything wrong and you have told all her friends and they are ok with it, then what's the problem?
WS: Why did you have to drag OW's friends into this? They didn't ask to be.
Me: No and neither did my family, friends and work colleagues but unfortunately they were.
I said the classic, "our marriage can survive your anger, and it can survive your infidelity but it won't survive with a third person in it." He disagreed!
He said that even if he broke up with OW, he wouldn't want me (even though he said that this had nothing to do with me). He would probably go off the rails and end up in hospital. I feel so sad that he feels like this. He has got a lot of issues that he is not dealing with appropriately and I said that I wanted to stand next to him and be there for him and help him reach his full potential. He said that I don't listen to him and I feel sad that he feels like this because I do listen very hard so that I don't miss anything.
This morning at 2am, I thought to myself, if he asked me to go over there now, I would not be as enthusiastic as I would have been 3 weeks ago. So what ever the outcome is of this latest episode, I am going to be ok with it. I feel surprisingly calm but very sad and actually quite scared for him.
WS: I can't believe you did such a mean thing to upset us.
WS: Who else have you e-mailed?
WS: How would you like it if I contact your sisters?
WS: I don't know who you are anymore
WS: It was so vindictive
WS: I've got to spend the day sorting out the problems now
WS: Why did you have to drag OW's friends into this? They didn't ask to be.
He said that even if he broke up with OW, he wouldn't want me (even though he said that this had nothing to do with me).
This is all classic WS exposure anger. Mine said pretty much the exact same things. You did a pretty good job not letting it get to you.
Why did you not expose to more people?
Hi catperson,
A lot of her "friends" are young or people they have met on vacation or old work colleagues.
I actually chose ok, I think. I found her cousin, her birth mum and her adoptive mum (I think).
I certainly didn't want to come across as crazy or malicious.
BTW, I have received a few e-mails from OW since. I will start a separate thread ask if Schoolbus or anyone else can help with interpretations.
Ok. I e-mailed 3 of OW's friends on FB. Luckily, I got her cousin, her birth mother and her adoptive mother. I said that I am the wife of WS, the married man OW is having an adulterous affair with. OW knows that I want to save my marriage but it is proving difficult with her continued presence in it. If you know OW parents please could you forward this message on and ask them to contact me so that I can ask for their help directly.
WS called me today and his response is on my thread.
OW has sent me 4 e-mails. One combines 2 with a bit more.
Here it is:
You are making a fool of yourself and if there was any remote way WS would go back to you he certainly would not now. We are happy. I am sorry you are so unhappy. I feel in love with him way before I knew about you. I have told him I would let him alone to go back to you but he insists that even if I wasn't around he wouldn't go back to you.
Like I said in the subject..everyone knows about the situation already..so no new news to anyone.
Like my cousin said my parents are old and very sick. There is no reason to speak with them and upset them or excite them. I will probably be telling my mom of what you have been doing. And yes she knows about you. If you ever try to contact my parents or so though, you will regret it. I promise that.
He has told me that he cheated on you constantly. I have heard stories from the friends that you contacted before we came to London. Too bad you treated him and his family so badly that he didn't want to be with you because he is with me every minute of the day besides when he is at work. Sometime I even try to get him to go out without me and he won't. Stop causing him so much hassle. You are not get anywhere.
These e-mails not only went to my friends and family but these are his friends as well. You have embarrased him. This should be between the two of you. Not our friends. You have made a total fool of yourself. Everyone knows of the situation and really knows what a psycho you are now!
Second e-mail sent 12 hours later (so the first was 12 midnight and the second 12 midday their time):
Ok BS... I read the message to my mom and she has no desire to speak with you. She sees how happy WS is with me and how good he treats me. What are you trying to get out of this besides making enemies with everyone?
You are pathetic and I actually do feel sorry for you but you crossed a line. I hate to see what you are putting him through. I have a great relationship with my ex. We just weren't good together for a number of personal reasons. You will never have that now with him. He has been trying to be nice and this is what you do to him.
How can you tell if someone in an affair is lying?
Their lips are moving (or their fingers are typing).
Exposure is your friend. She's angry because exposure is affecting her relationship with your husband. Treat everything she tells you as a lie and you'll have better luck understanding what's actually going on.
Exposure is working. All waywards say exactly what your husband is saying in response to exposures. It's "vindictive" and "mean" and "breaks agreements we've made" and "cruel" and "heartless" and "stupid" and...
I could go on with the negative things my wife said every time she learned of a new exposure. You are NONE OF THOSE THINGS. You are a wife trying to save her marriage using one of the few known, effective tools that might have some influence to save your wayward husband from himself.
Hey Barnboy, you were quick to respond to that!
There is threatening language in her first e-mail. Is there anything I can do with that?
I don't feel a need to respond to OW but I am wondering whether to forward them to WS. I am sure that he is unaware that she sent them. Any thoughts on this?
Why is she so worked up, if everyone already knows? hmmm
To be fair, he did cheat on me a lot in London (found out this April) but he has said to me that it was nothing I did wrong. He said even today that this is not about me at all. He has a problem. It is as if he is self medicating with her. I suspect that the reason he has her around constantly is because he doesn't know what he would do left to his own devices. I am seriously concerned for his long term well-being.
Keep track of the threatening language in a dossier in a safe place; you may need it if she follows through on her threat. Exposure to her parents is, apparently, what she fears most, and should be performed post-haste. Your husband and OW are already aware they are in an affair, so additional exposure to the two of them is rather pointless. I would say just ask yourself before sending anything "will this drive them apart or not?" If it will, use it; if not, file it away in your "affair file" in case you need it later.
She's so worked up because IT HURTS. I spoke to OM after learning of my wife's affair, and he told me "There's no point you talking to her anyway. She wouldn't care if she knew."
SO UNTRUE. His wife was CRUSHED by the affair, and were it not for her intervention on their end it would have taken us much longer to get into recovery. Exposure to the other person's loved ones in a way that will get them on your side often works well, but if they don't have a strong marriage ethic it may not work at all or may backfire. At least one of my in-laws regards marriage as a formalization of a long-term relationship, and divorce just another breakup like in high school. Some families are that way.
It is as if he is self medicating with her
Ahh, you left out the "serial adulterer" part. Your best bet is probably counseling with the Harleys. He's moved out, this is far from his first affair, and they have been affairs with strong emotional attachments, not just one-night stands. Your best bet may actually be Plan B if you've already done some Plan A.
Ignore the words from OW, though. She's lying. I don't have to know her to know this, because THEY ALWAYS LIE. An affair requires lies; it cannot live without it.
Your WH and I hate having our lies exposed. We are doing our best to counteract that by telling everyone you're a psycho, but not everyone has bought into it. That's embarrassing to us, and it's all your fault.
Stop embarrassing us, and trying to make our epic love story look tawdry and cheap. It's not, ok???? We're soulmates!!!!!!!!
Dagnabbit, but this really bothers me! It bothers me so much I feel an overwhelming need to write to you again, not even a day later. Please don't let anyone else know how pitiful I am, oops, I mean, you'd better not keep telling or I'm really gonna do something to make you regret it.
OW
Reality check: they both hate exposure, surprise, surprise, and now not everyone in their new happy little circle looks on them with favor.
This A is doomed, but agree with Barnboy...to have a shot at saving your M, the serial adultery needs to be addressed professionally before you even consider letting him recover with you.
You sure you want this guy back? He sounds really messed up, a serial chaeter.
I'd ignore her requests to desist. She maybe a product of inbreeding, however, where her family has only recently begun waliking upright. So, they may be of no help.
Regardless , it seems the exposure has made her uncomfortable enough to go to the trouble of contacting you and trying to get you to stop, both by way of a veiled threat and by trying to convinve you that folks are thinking poorly of you, due to your exposing.
One thing to keep in mind re the attempt to emabarass you: this woman is obviously not very bright. Her sentence structure and grammar are like that of a dim bulb. So, the folks she associates with are , most likely, of the same ilk. Who cares what a group of morons thinks about you?
I would not be surprised if they communicate with each other using a series of guttural clicks and grunts.
Barnboy: Thank you again. I have done some coaching with Steve and it was very worthwhile.
Yes, WS is a serial cheater but I believe this to be the first emotional affair, simply because of his incredible change in character / personality after he met her. Plus, piecing together the time frame, I think the ONS started about 17 to 18 years into our relationship so something must have triggered that. They got out of control during the year that he has been working abroad.
Neak: That's funny. I needed the laugh, although contrary to OW deluded opinion, I am not unhappy. I'm kinda sad at the situation but that's different. I am happy within myself and with who I am as a person. Maybe she doesn't know that there is a difference.
Reality check: they both hate exposure, surprise, surprise, and now not everyone in their new happy little circle looks on them with favor.
This A is doomed, but agree with Barnboy...to have a shot at saving your M, the serial adultery needs to be addressed professionally before you even consider letting him recover with you.
Oh yes, definately. But he has admitted to me (and only me) that he has addiction problems so we would both know what would need to be done for recovery.
Zelmo: Thank you also for the much needed belly laughs. See my earlier post for why I want him back. He is a good person who has not always been this way. He has lost his way and needs help to get back on the path.
You are correct. She is not bright. She has no job and is bankrupt. I'm guessing that Financial Support is a big EN being met by my WS.
And here is another one just received: (she has way too much time on her hands)
What else do you have???? Do you want my mom's number? Do you to call my mom who is recovered from a major surgery and my dad who has altzheimers??? I will give it to you if you feel that is going to get WS and you back together....but its not! WS could probably give it to you. We just had dinner yesterday with them.
You have me so pissed off right now and crossed the line contacting my family and I don't know when I am going to be done going off on you....because you deserve it at this point. Accusing me of stealing your friends. (I mentioned to WS that OW seemed to be adding my friends as hers on FB). Are you kidding me? Do you know how long Paul and I go back. He is just trying to be nice and never causes prob with anyone cuz he is like that. So here is the difference between you and me. 1) You have no social tack 2) Im dealing with you because like my cousin said I am an adult. Im not scared for you to contact anyone else.....Go right ahead. Again they will just know what a pathetic psycho you are.
Reality check: they both hate exposure, surprise, surprise, and now not everyone in their new happy little circle looks on them with favor.
This A is doomed, but agree with Barnboy...to have a shot at saving your M, the serial adultery needs to be addressed professionally before you even consider letting him recover with you.
Oh yes, definately. But he has admitted to me (and only me) that he has addiction problems so we would both no what would need to be done for recovery.
Yes, he needs to be chemically castrated.
And another: (referring to her FB page)
wasn't completely open....now my profile is completely open... happy reading!
I wouldn't give her the satisfaction of a reply but I wonder if there's some way to get a message to her that she has wwwwwaaaaayyy too much time on her hands. LOL
Obviously this is really bothering her or she would be ignoring you. Actually one thing that would probably really get to her is if you said that this A isn't about her at all--it never is. It's always about the WS/BS.
Travelmonkey, those are HILARIOUS!! You clearly hit the target!! I can just imagine her spitting fury!
You have my full permission to send her my favorite bunny rabbit
:
![[Linked Image from messengermods.com]](http://www.messengermods.com/data/thumbnails/14/u_smell_like_butt.jpg)
I wouldn't give her the satisfaction of a reply but I wonder if there's some way to get a message to her that she has wwwwwaaaaayyy too much time on her hands. LOL
Obviously this is really bothering her or she would be ignoring you. Actually one thing that would probably really get to her is if you said that this A isn't about her at all--it never is. It's always about the WS/BS.
Yes, and she does say in her first mail "This should be between the two of you." I agree! So why doesn't she stay out of it? lol
I would still like to forward these to WS. Does anyone think that would be a bad idea?
Also interesting is that she says "Im not scared for you to contact anyone else.....Go right ahead." But she must be a teeny weeny bit scared because I just checked her FB page and she has hidden all her friends. Luckily, I wrote down all their names ages ago
MelodyLane: Thank you! I'm loving the bunny. But wouldn't that be a bit of a lovebuster? Ha ha
TM, yes, you should send them to your WH! Tell him she is sending you very threatening emails and you don't appreciate it.
MelodyLane: Thank you! I'm loving the bunny. But wouldn't that be a bit of a lovebuster? Ha ha
nonono, send it to the OW, not your H!
oooooh she just exposed her fear!
She is terrified of you exposing to her FB friends.
So I say do it NOW.
oh wow! Are there more people to expose to?? If so, please do it NOW!! She is probably busily typing up a mass message right now characterizing you as a nutjob. In that case, be sure and give the friends your full name and phone # and offer to provide PROOF of your claims. [and I think even the OW admits it, right?]
do it now!!
oh wow! Are there more people to expose to?? If so, please do it NOW!! She is probably busily typing up a mass message right now characterizing you as a nutjob. In that case, be sure and give the friends your full name and phone # and offer to provide PROOF of your claims. [and I think even the OW admits it, right?]
do it now!!
Oh no, I can't. That would just be spiteful and most of her friends are loose anyway. The one person I hesitated over was her business associate. That may be productive but I can't see anyone else being useful. They are already posting supportive comments on her FB page.
What else do you have???? Do you want my mom's number? Do you to call my mom who is recovered from a major surgery and my dad who has altzheimers???
Answer her and say "yes, please! And anyone else you know who used to think you were an honorable person, instead of a homewrecker."
lol
I'm still trying to figure out why you want that serial adulterer back in your life. Why DO you want him back?
TM, why spiteful? If there is nothing wrong with her affair, why not SPREAD THE GOOD NEWS!?? Sure, there will be some who will spit on you because they are brain damaged silly people, but you betcha, there are people on that list she DOES NOT WANT TO KNOW. She will look like a RAT having to explain her sleazy behavior to these people.
You need to expose this wide and far, girl. The more people who know, the better. Remember, you have done nothing wrong here, all you would be doing is exposing a TRUE FACT about the OW. Everyone should know!
oooooh she just exposed her fear!
She is terrified of you exposing to her FB friends.
So I say do it NOW.
YES! Today!
What else do you have???? Do you want my mom's number? Do you to call my mom who is recovered from a major surgery and my dad who has altzheimers???
Answer her and say "yes, please! And anyone else you know who used to think you were an honorable person, instead of a homewrecker."
lol
Agree!! Call her parents and speak to them. Ask them to persuade their daughter to end her affair with your H.
Remember, you have done nothing wrong here, all you would be doing is exposing a TRUE FACT about the OW. Everyone should know!
Agreed!
Especially when you know it's working so well!
Look, TM,if there is nothing wrong with her affair, then why shouldn't everyone know about it? What is wrong with that?
Yeah, you should have called her parents a long time ago...
You have her on the ropes, TM, move in for the kill! Expose to her FB friends and call her parents.
oooooh she just exposed her fear!
She is terrified of you exposing to her FB friends.
So I say do it NOW.
YES! Today!
This is what is being posted on her FB page:
FB Friend1:Haha WTF? Nothing like a dramatic ex to drag things down. Or TRY to, that is. LOLOLOL
OW:oh.... she is trying. I am just upset with how upset WS is....
FB Friend1:Well, that's what my ex did...and my opinion is that it's a pretty weak person who can't fight their own battles.
Still makes me laugh to this day. He contacted all of my friends and even subpoenaed a few to court. He called 14 witnesses to testify. I called none. *I* won custody. LOLOLOL
OW No kids between them. Just want to protect my son.
FB Friend1♥ Take it easy, honey.
FB Friend2It's too bad she couldn't actually be a grown up. Sorry she is raining on your parade
I don't care what these people think of me but I don't want their wayward thinking influencing WS thoughts of me.
Can you still contact these friends?
If so, contact them and ask them if they were taught that screwing a married man is moral and ethical.
That is all.
I don't care what these people think of me but I don't want their wayward thinking influencing WS thoughts of me.
That is just great! You have evidence that this exposure is causing conflict in affairville. Now instead of having a romantic evening, your H will have to listen to the OW spit fury about YOU. And guess what will happen when she does too much of that? HE WILL BECOME DEFENSIVE OF YOU.
Again, she will lose friends over this, TM. The more you expose the harder it will be for her to carry on this affair with your H. Now, when she tries to take him around her social circles, she will imagine social snubs. And some will be OUTRIGHT.
TM, if you do want to save your marriage, you are going to have to bring a GUN to a gun fight, dear, not a pea shooter. Your exposure is having a devastating effect on the OW, make no mistake about that.
I'm not scared for you to contact anyone else.....Go right ahead.
Sounds like a challenge. I hope you don't let her down.
Wowzers! Ya got the hornet's nest on the first shot!
By all means, continue if you have more contacts. Don't waste the cyber-ink replying to her - she will just try to twist that against you, too. (With her high-quality friends, ugh! Bet they aren't all like that, though.)
Rofl about her logic: "You wouldn't want him back because he's admitted he's such a cheater." Then.....she would want him why, exactly?
I don't care what these people think of me but I don't want their wayward thinking influencing WS thoughts of me.
That is just great! You have evidence that this exposure is causing conflict in affairville. Now instead of having a romantic evening, your H will have to listen to the OW spit fury about YOU. And guess what will happen when she does too much of that? HE WILL BECOME DEFENSIVE OF YOU.
Again, she will lose friends over this, TM. The more you expose the harder it will be for her to carry on this affair with your H. Now, when she tries to take him around her social circles, she will imagine social snubs. And some will be OUTRIGHT.
TM, if you do want to save your marriage, you are going to have to bring a GUN to a gun fight, dear, not a pea shooter. Your exposure is having a devastating effect on the OW, make no mistake about that.
okay, okay I will review my list and e-mail some more. But as someone else mentioned, I think that she is fearful of some people being contacted more than others. I will try to figure out who that might be. And I will forward OW e-mails to WS. I think that will cause more trouble between them.
Thanks to everyone or your support and advise. I thank the Lord for the day I was guided to this website!
[quote=TravelMonkey]age, you are going to have to bring a GUN to a gun fight, dear, not a pea shooter. Your exposure is having a devastating effect on the OW, make no mistake about that.
Is that not a GUN to a KNIFE fight (as per the Untouchables?)
For what it's worth I'd expose it to every living soul who knows them. I'm in a delicate situation. I don't have as much experience as these guys and even I can see that she is running scared.
If she REALLY didn't care she'd ignore the 'nut' BS. She's not. She's exposed her achilles heal ... go in for the kill.
Remember the phrase 'she doth protest too much' ....
okay, okay I will review my list and e-mail some more. But as someone else mentioned, I think that she is fearful of some people being contacted more than others. I will try to figure out who that might be.
Why do you have to figure out who is who?...nuke her butt and email everyone.
okay, okay I will review my list and e-mail some more. But as someone else mentioned, I think that she is fearful of some people being contacted more than others. I will try to figure out who that might be.
Why do you have to figure out who is who?...nuke her butt and email everyone.
Because I am me and I still want to maintain a modicum of dignity in all this. But I will expose to more before the weekend - she is having a birthday party. Maybe I can make their adultery the topic of the evening.
Maybe I can make their adultery the topic of the evening.
Now wouldn't THAT be a coup de gras?
Go for it!
Wowzers! Ya got the hornet's nest on the first shot!
By all means, continue if you have more contacts. Don't waste the cyber-ink replying to her - she will just try to twist that against you, too. (With her high-quality friends, ugh! Bet they aren't all like that, though.)
Rofl about her logic: "You wouldn't want him back because he's admitted he's such a cheater." Then.....she would want him why, exactly?
Why does she want him? Because he's the driver of her gravy train. She actually puts in one of her comments: Thinking in the mean time maybe trying technical recruiting if I end up needing job sooner than later. Doing ok for the time being.
Yes! Because my WS is paying all her bills. Grrr
[quote=TravelMonkey]age, you are going to have to bring a GUN to a gun fight, dear, not a pea shooter. Your exposure is having a devastating effect on the OW, make no mistake about that.
Is that not a GUN to a KNIFE fight (as per the Untouchables?)
noooooooooo, it is "never bring a pea shooter to a gun fight!" (as per MelodyLane
]
Because I am me and I still want to maintain a modicum of dignity in all this. But I will expose to more before the weekend - she is having a birthday party. Maybe I can make their adultery the topic of the evening.
TM, it is undignified to have an affair with a married man; there is nothing undignified in exposing wrongdoing.
In addition to exposing to the rest of the friends [and BR is right, you should just go down the list and send it to them all] I would STRONGLY SUGGEST calling her parents. I have no doubt she has spun you as a psycho and they don't know the truth. She is most terrified of you contacting her parents and I have no doubt that it is because she knows they will strongly disapprove.
Would your mother call her parents?
Rofl about her logic: "You wouldn't want him back because he's admitted he's such a cheater." Then.....she would want him why, exactly?
Why does she want him? Because he's the driver of her gravy train.
I love it when OP gives the BS the ammo.
Hey TravelMonkey,
Wow am I glad i caught up with your thread, Im the EXPERT on FACEBOOK Exposure and I Promise you despite my own humiliation at the time it was worth every email.
This is what i did, I contacted every single person she had as a friend on facebook and told them what had happened from my point of view, yes i did get some demented replyes from her Wayward friends but some felt huge empathy with my situation adn sent me some amazing information on her and her past that was a great relationship killer.
I am happy to PM the email i sent around to OW friends on facebook for your reference as dont want to post it on your thread etc. I promise you that although my WS was at home and affair had ended when i sent that email he was angry at me and he was mortified about the details i included in the email but then when the information i gathered on her kicked in he now is so grateful i did that.
Funny thing beleive it or not her and her firends started an actual group on facebook against me called "Stop vindictive people from using facebook" and the topic subject "stop face book being used by stupid people who can;t sort their lives out in private" and guess what it hasnt got any memebers that arent friens with her lol, I still laugh at that one. It was the biggest compliment her and her demented friends could have given me, a whole facebook thread started in my honour, im flattered!
You hare a better person than me however as i would have replyed to the OW emails saying,
If your not bothered about me contacting people you know why are you wasting your time and mine by contacting me?? you should really concentrate on making my H happy as you seem to be aware of his previous affairs but yet think that he wont be doing that to you even though he did it to me and we have a 22year history together not just a few months like you two. Im doing fine thanks and im surrounded by all the support i need so please dont worry about me and dont feel free to express your opinion on my marriage and why it went wrong after all your hearing the details from a chronic cheater and lets face it who is likely to tell the trooth in this situation? so go get a life of your own for a change (as you seem to be rather attached to getting someone elses life right now) and dont contact me again unless you have something intelligent to say.
Remind her that her parents frailness is her responsibility not yours to bear and had she been decent enough to get a man of her own (not a married one) then she wouldnt be adding to their stress levels, all you are doing is keeping them informed of both sides. Tell her that she needs to remember you didnt do anything wrong the onus of guilt is on her and your WS, you were happily minding your own life and business until she came along and butted her head in.
As far as information regarding your treatment of WS family this has only spurred you on to tell your side of the story and its a free country, if you want to tell people about your life then thats your choice, what they will think of you is not your problem as you dont know who these people are, basically remind her you have nothing to loose can she say the same??
I really could write more but thats what i have come up with so far.
Carry on exposing TM, its doing the job, but be prepared to get some negative comments from her friends/family all you got to remember that they are condoning A so their opinon of you cant really be that importaing.
I am happy to PM the email i sent around to OW friends on facebook for your reference as dont want to post it on your thread etc.
PM's are disabled .... ARGGH! Can you possibly post your email here so I can ALSO use it?
Bh, how did you move from being so wrecked to being so clever within a week? You are not the same person who came here so recently!
PMs are disabled, but you can send an email to any moderator and ask them to send your address to another person. They are most obliging. You can also click "notify' to do this.
LOL thanks peeps, im not clever at all I just love helping people when im sure of something working because i have been there and done that. I would love to post letter i sent to OW friends as it was very manipulative on my part, basically really made them feel sorry for me etc, I concentrated on OW faults in letter rather than my WS as it was aimed at exposing her because i was talking to her friends not people that i knew etc. Im happy to add my email address at bottom of my posts if I am allowed to do that, and will happily forward letter and responsed to anyone who is interested in the sake of learning. I could post it on here but tere is soo much to explain it would take me ages lol. Im not ashamed of my letter but i will get brutally hit by 2x4's because its all about expoing OW not WS but then that was the object of this letter. Im no angel people and when it comes to protecting my family I will kick some backsides (and have done so verbally lol).
ps here is the link to the Facebook started by OW friends, she wasnt brave enough to be a member so she isnt but all people there member are her friends, its hilarious! I didnt give them the satisfaction of joining the group either so for the sake of keeping the anonimity rools of this forum i wanted to clarify that i am not a member etc (altough i personally couldnt care less about my anonimity)
***edit***
Feel free to join lol
MODERATOR'S NOTE: BH28, I removed that link due to the risk of the security of your posts here being compromised. Providing a link like that could very easily allow the OW access to your posts. Please be careful. Protect yourself by not providing too much personal information. Thank you. McLovin
...yes i did get some demented replyes from her Wayward friends but some felt huge empathy with my situation adn sent me some amazing information on her and her past that was a great relationship killer.
After I exposed to OMW, OM called WW in a screaming fury about me. Literally called her seven times in the space of two hours to scream at her about me.
Then OMW and I talked for two hours the next day, and she gave me a lot of great info which I relayed to my WW. That information plus his HUMONGOUS love-buster of shouting at my wife convinced her that she was better off with me.
The recovery is on. I don't regret exposure despite the enormous amount of anger from WW, OM, and so-called "friends" who chose to support OM & WW's emotional affair over our marriage.
TM, Great job on your FB exposure!! I also got a kick out of OW's responses...she sure is going out of her way to assure you that it is a waste of your time to expose, huh?
My sister also exposed on FB, and while no one denounced her WH or the OW, I think it took all the fun out of their A and things crumbled quickly afterwards.
Keep us posted!
Because I am me and I still want to maintain a modicum of dignity in all this.
IMO, you show more dignity by being mad as h&ll and letting EVERYONE know what this skank is doing with your H. NOT letting everyone know makes you look scared and weak and having low self-esteem.
Travelmonkey, keep in mind there is nothing "dignified" in allowing evil to thrive. That is the act of a COWARD.
Wish School Bus could give her opinion on the tangled web that OW wrote to you. Always of interest
Im looking trhough responses to my letter that i sent to her friends on facebook as getting emails asking about it and here is one i just came accross just to show you guys what expoure can achieve and how you will get help from OW's friends even though they may appear to be on her side, i swear these are all first genuine responsed to my exposure letter. Hope this helps you TM to see that its not all going to be bad.
hmm well i am not friends with ***edit*** but more than an aquatannce at school. I have not much to say oth er than i send you my deepest condolences for the act she has commited upon you and your husband.
My sympathay lyes with you and i hope you and your husband and child and able to recover from this. I see that have quite the mental capacity as you were able to deal with this all so mannerffully so with that i give you my respect aswell.
Best of luck
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hi thanks for letting me know i cant belive she can do that the last time i saw ***edit*** was over 3years ago thank god lol hope u can sort things out whith hubby
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you should speak to your husband,about all the lies he has been telling at work instead of invovling me.....
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hiya just read your message.
just wanna offer you my support and say that you will always be better than her. i hope everything works out for the best for you and that you find happiness again xx
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not interested u need 2 sort your husband out there must be a reason he went behind your back once a rat always a rat he will do it again to u there will never be any trust there i feel sorry for those pure kids having a dad like that.i think it is so wrong how u send a message like that 2 ***edit*** friends it take two, he didnt say no she didnt make him do it u need to get rid of that husband of yours and find yourself a real man that loves u and the kids.
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I have many many more but taking ages going through facebook indbox to dig them out
Hi All,
I'm thinking of amending my message for round two of FB exposure:
"Hello, OW has given me permission to contact you and let you know that she is having an adulterous affair with my husband, WS. These past 16 months, with WS working abroad, have been testing but 22 years is a lot to throw away. OW knows that I am trying to save our marriage and it is proving difficult with her continued presence in it. Please feel free to contact me at ....... if you would like any additional information. If you know OWs parents please could you pass on this message to them as I would like to ask for their help directly. Many Thanks, BS"
What do you think? Good, effective, wishy washy?
BTW, I am going to send WS OW's e-mails tonight. I couldn't do it yesterday due to technical issues.
Thanks to everyone for your continued support.
TM
"Hello, OW has given me permission to contact you and let you know that she is having an adulterous affair with my husband, WS. These past 16 months of my marriage with WH, with WS working abroad, have been testing, but 22 years is a lot to throw away and he has told me he knows he is just making destructive choices because of his addictive personality.
OW knows that I am trying to save our marriage and it is proving difficult with her continued presence in it is keeping WH from being able to make clear choices so he knows he's making the right decision in leaving his family. Please feel free to contact me at ....... if you would like any additional information.
OW also invited me to talk to her parents, but forgot to give me their phone numbers. So if you know OWs' parents' numbers, would you please let me know them? If not, please could you pass on this message to them as I would like to ask for their help directly, to help them give their daughter some guidance in whether to continue to continue having sex with a married man and draw him from his family. Many Thanks, BS
PS: To those of you who have expressed that it is ME who should be ashamed of letting the world know about the TRUTH, I'll just ask you: Did your parents raise you to believe it's ok to sleep with a married man, when he knows it will hurt his children?"
Travelmonkey, keep in mind there is nothing "dignified" in allowing evil to thrive. That is the act of a COWARD.
I'm having t-shirts made with this on the front and "I {heart} MelodyLane" on the back.
Any takers?
"Hello, OW has given me permission to contact you and let you know that she is having an adulterous affair with my husband, WS. These past 16 months of my marriage with WH, with WS working abroad, have been testing, but 22 years is a lot to throw away and he has told me he knows he is just making destructive choices because of his addictive personality.
OW knows that I am trying to save our marriage and it is proving difficult with her continued presence in it is keeping WH from being able to make clear choices so he knows he's making the right decision in leaving his family. Please feel free to contact me at ....... if you would like any additional information.
OW also invited me to talk to her parents, but forgot to give me their phone numbers. So if you know OWs' parents' numbers, would you please let me know them? If not, please could you pass on this message to them as I would like to ask for their help directly, to help them give their daughter some guidance in whether to continue to continue having sex with a married man and draw him from his family. Many Thanks, BS
PS: To those of you who have expressed that it is ME who should be ashamed of letting the world know about the TRUTH, I'll just ask you: Did your parents raise you to believe it's ok to sleep with a married man, when he knows it will hurt his children?"
Hi Catperson,
You do make me laugh. I like your amendments to my message.
However, I don't really want to lie and WS hasn't said that he knows he is making destructive choices, so I will leave that bit out but keep in "because of his addictive personality".
And the very last bit I may amend to "...sex with a married person when they know it will hurt their children?", because we don't have any ourselves.
Thank you - any more suggestions?
I have one idea, change the first sentence to "the OW asked me to contact you". This is true, no?
I have one idea, change the first sentence to "the OW asked me to contact you". This is true, no?
OW wrote "Im not scared for you to contact anyone else.....Go right ahead."
So maybe I could put "OW invited me to contact you" or "OW encouraged me to contact you"
????
Tempting to create a FB fan page: "OW is a jacka$$"
Hi TM,
How about this as a possible amendment to cat's P.S.?
P.S. To those of you who have expressed that it is ME who should be ashamed of letting the world know the TRUTH, perhaps you should make a note that, it is wrong to COMMIT adultery, it is NOT wrong to EXPOSE adultery.This next bit [pardon the pun], I wish you could send to the HO, regarding this particular quote of hers:
1) You have no social tack
Mrs. W
Hi TM,
How about this as a possible amendment to cat's P.S.?
P.S. To those of you who have expressed that it is ME who should be ashamed of letting the world know the TRUTH, perhaps you should make a note that, it is wrong to COMMIT adultery, it is NOT wrong to EXPOSE adultery.This next bit [pardon the pun], I wish you could send to the HO, regarding this particular quote of hers:
1) You have no social tack
Mrs. W
Thanks, Mrs W - I
was wondering what "social tack" is. Now I know. One day, when this is all over, I will send her the link to this page so she can find out what honourable, sane people think of her behaviour. (And her letter writing skills).
And yes, I like your adjustment to the PS. Thank you
TM
Mrs. Wondering's joke reminded me that your OW sounds very young and immature. Is she as old as you guys? She writes like my 12-year-old. (Actually, that's being mean to my daughter.)
Seriously, though.
A Facebook exposure is important, but it's not enough. Many of the most important people in my life are not on FB. You need email or a phone book.
Also, when the skank says her mom just got out of surgery and her dad has alzheimers, and they can't take the stress, you say:
"First of all, it was not ME who caused the stress. YOU have made a poor choice and I'm going back to your parents because it's clear that they left out the lesson on general morality. I'm hoping that by contacting them now, even at this late stage in your upbringing, they can double back and teach you the difference between right and wrong."
"Secondly, if they're so ill, it's interesting that you are still able to have a family dinner with them."
"Thirdly, I hope you're not teaching your OWN child that this is the right way to go about finding a mate (stealing someone elses's). Perhaps he/she needs a little lesson as well?"
That ought to drive her into a BLIND RAGE.
Hey TM
been reading all the replies you have regarding facebook exposure, a couple of things you need to bear in mind
1) you can only email a certain amount of people at any one time, i dont remember how many people i got to email from her frieds list before facebook blocked my email, this is nothing to do with the content of the email but its done by facebook to stop spamming.
So be prepared for that, what i did is created 3 accounts with facebook and this allowed me to email all 150 of her friends.
2) Make the title of the email appealing, im emailing so the receiver opens it something like the OW name and thats it.
3) Email fast as you dont want her to get to her friends first and stop them from reading your email.
4) Just for fun i copied adn pasted her friends lists onto word processor to keep it for my own record should she decide to make her facebook profile private half way through your emailing. This was fun because as her frieds started deleting her from their lists her friends numbers started dropping, now she has gone from approximately 150 friends to barely 60. people dont want the hassle of being linked to a skank.
5) when you start getting replyes from her friends make sure you reply nicely to them, I got so much slack from some of them but because i was nice to them even if they slammed me this made them rethink and some of them even dished some dirt on OW.
I do think you exposure email is ok however you need to really think about what you want to achieve from it, if your only contacting people to get her parents address then its fine but if you want to get these people to feel sorry for you and give her hell/expose her then it needs to be more specific to that purpose.
Maybe think about writing the email along the lines of "my point of view" as those who are aware of what is going on with OW and your WS will have heard all kinds of stories about you and you have not yet had the chance to stick up for yourself (ie like OW states that you treated WS family badly etc).
Good luck
Hi imanotherone and brutallyhonest
The OW is 1 year younger than me and looks about 10 years older.
Yes, I did think of the contradiction of her parents being ill and then having dinner with them. The important people in her life are her son, my WS and her parents. I'm not going to involve her son - he is 14.
I would love to send a reply along the lines of what people have suggested, but I am not going to.
I'm not really contacting people now to get to the parents because I am certain that I e-mailed her mum in my first round. They may even have been sitting at the dinner table when my e-mail came through!
I suppose I just hope to get to some people with morals who might have words with her or make her social life a little difficult. I believe that a large part of my WS attraction to OW is the friends that she has. Although, he is mostly interested in the drinking, easy people and they will probably stick around for the free booze anyway.
I don't want to make my e-mail too long that people won't read it. I think the main issue that WS and OW are facing is that they have told everyone that WS is separated, which implies that WS wife has agreed to the current situation. My message is clearly making the point that I am not ok with it and that they both know this. In my book, that puts a different spin on things.
Even my sister says that I should accept it is over because we are "separated" but I think that separation means one of two things, both parties in agreement. Either a) the couple are living apart to stop arguements and dating to see if they can get back together or b) the couple have agreed it is over and are on the road to divorce. Neither scenario applies to us because WS has not asked for a divorce or instigated proceedings.
What does everyone else think that separation means? Have I got it totally wrong?
Thanks,
TM
Hmmm. The son is 14......
My guess is most folks on here will say that's old enough to know his mamma's a hoe. Does he have a facebook?
You think I'm kidding. Do you want to protect the son of a skank or do you want to save your 22 yr relationship? You've been with WH eight years longer than he's ever been alive. His mamma's obviously not showing him the dfference between right and wrong...
Hey TM Just a quick thought maybe you should make a special effort to mention that WS has not started D proceedings, as OW will probably peressure him into it making WS argue with her etc, this will then in turn make her insecure (why isnt he divorcing his wife? does he really care about me? etc). IF she then starts ngging your WS about this issue it will only drive him away.
As far as her son goes hold off on that exposure until after Facebook exposure as it may seem vindictive to OW friends and you really need to get their sympathy vote if their going to support your marriage.
OK this next bit is hard but I got to do it, I was scared of the wrath of MB members if i had suggested sending the following email to OW friends but at the end of the day its just my opinion so hopefully i will aviod total innaliation.
I would send follwing email
Hi im contacting you because you are friends with ...... on facebook and therefore i assume you know her, I wanted to let you know that she is currently sleeping with my husband and is revelling in making my life a misery, she has contacted me to encourage me to email her friends as you seem to all know about A, I have taken her up on her offer because i feel that my side of the story has not been able to be expressed regarding this situation and therefore my WS and OW have been able to get away with your acceptance of this horrid situation.
(talk about your marriage and your relationship with husband explain before A how you found out about A in brief).
(then insert any positive things WS has done with you since A exposed this will show he still cares and shes a dummy for beleiving otherwise etc)
I wanted to express myself in the hope that the true nature of their relationship is exposed and maybe this will help my WS find his way home one day. I have invested 22 years of my life in this relationship and despite his repeated A i have stood by him simply because I am not prepared to give up on the family we once were.
If you care about OW then please support her to make the right choices for her family, this does not involve starting a realtionship with a cheater and getting involved in the mess he has created for himself. She seems to be totally oblivious to the fact that he hasnt asked me for a Divorce no matter how much he has been telling her we are over.
I do not know OW well but i do know my WS very well and know that he will be home if she would just wake up and realise he is there because was easly available when he needed something to fill a gap nothing more and let him go and think for himself, if he does not return to me then atleast she can be assured he actually wants her for who she.
Thanks for reading this feel free to contact me should you need any further information etc.
Hi TM, you should ask the mods to merge this with your other threads. We'll be able to see the whole picture when looking back months from now. Just click the "notify" button and ask them to put these together.
BTW, your H's response was TEXTBOOK after exposure. My H said all the same exact things, and guess what? Three years later, we're still together. So it's total BS. Keep exposing. Get to that birthmother, too.
Gee, I know what separation means to me and it doesnt include the dating part, we are still married.
...and to my WH....WH told me it means to him that he can see and do whatever he wants with OW and it is not considered cheating because he left, for some reason he doesnt think it was cheating before he left either though.... Go figure...
Hmmm. The son is 14......
My guess is most folks on here will say that's old enough to know his mamma's a hoe. Does he have a facebook?
You think I'm kidding. Do you want to protect the son of a skank or do you want to save your 22 yr relationship? You've been with WH eight years longer than he's ever been alive. His mamma's obviously not showing him the dfference between right and wrong...
My OW son was 13 or 14 at the time of Dday and I wish I exposed to him...why shouldnt they know that their mother helped to break up a family by seeing a married man...
Yeah, but there's the legal issue, minors and all...
why shouldnt they know that their mother helped to break up a family by seeing a married man...
Simply because that kid is a teenager and all he sees right now is that TM WS is paying his mums bills and probably buying him goodies to ease the guilt, realistically speaking teenagers dont tend to give a monkeys about what their parents do especially when they are getting the goods out of the situation.
So because he is a minor you cannot tell him the truth about his mother being with a married man?? I dont know if I agree with that. I dont see what the legal issue would be if you are only telling him the truth. That the man his mother is seeing is married ...
Can I sue my OW for seeing my husband and exposing my DS to their adulterous affair? IF I thought I would win I would have. So good luck to OW if she gets upset by someone tellin her son the truth about his mother....
Hi Brutallyhonest,
I really like your message. It has given me something to think about. I am so confused now!
Hey TM was starting to worry you hated me lol That message is just my opinion you go do what you feel comfortable doing as you know situation clarer than I do. I tryed to post some of the replyes i got to my exposure email to give you a glance of what to expect. There are pleanty more detailed dirtdishing replyes that i got but they included too many names and personal details to edit out etc.
Three words for that Cee yoU Next Tuesday.
Rope
Shovel
Lime
Pariah what are you referring that statement to??
The affair partner threatening the BS.
In that case i totally agree with the statement lol
Thanks imanotherone,
It's good to know it's all wayward speak. I did laugh out loud at some of the things he said. And I am very happy to hear that your's is a success story!
The reason I started a separate thread was because this one did not get much traffic. I wasn't really expecting the response the other one has had.
I suppose now would be a good idea to merge.
Hey TM was starting to worry you hated me lol That message is just my opinion you go do what you feel comfortable doing as you know situation clarer than I do. I tryed to post some of the replyes i got to my exposure email to give you a glance of what to expect. There are pleanty more detailed dirtdishing replyes that i got but they included too many names and personal details to edit out etc.
Why would I hate you? We are all buddies here. I am so grateful for all the responses.
It's good to be prepared for any onslaught from OW friends but as they don't know me they really can't have an opinion of me. At least I have met OW on a couple of occasions and have decided I don't like her (although I am biased).
I wouldnt like her because she appears so totally DUMB in every sense never mind the fact that she is with a married man. I really cant understand when OP get together with chaters. Do they really think that the WS wont do to them what he has done to BS?? Crazy!
I mean what has your WS learned from all this really?? that he can take off whenever he feels like it and there are bare minimum consequences plus there are women out there that will still have him despite his behaviour towards a woman he has spent 22 years with. Yeah like hell he wont do the same thing to her as soon as he is bored.
Three words for that Cee yoU Next Tuesday.
Rope
Shovel
Lime
Thanks, Pariah for your support! The sentiment behind your message is gratefully received.
That's why there needs to be more than bare minimal consequences.
The best part is, many of the needed consequences, if accepted, benefit both the BS and the M.
I wouldnt like her because she appears so totally DUMB in every sense never mind the fact that she is with a married man. I really cant understand when OP get together with chaters. Do they really think that the WS wont do to them what he has done to BS?? Crazy!
I mean what has your WS learned from all this really?? that he can take off whenever he feels like it and there are bare minimum consequences plus there are women out there that will still have him despite his behaviour towards a woman he has spent 22 years with. Yeah like hell he wont do the same thing to her as soon as he is bored.
Oh yes, WS has confessed to me that he has cheated on OW and looks for opportunities even now. But we also know that he has a problem. Either he hasn't had that conversation with OW or she thinks that she alone can cure him. Judging from her e-mails I don't think they have had that conversation.
Well more dumbness for her because whats more likely? him getting help with his problem from someone who knows him well (you) or him getting help from 5 minute sloozy who hasnt got a clue what he is up to ??
I think you win that one.
Oh yes, WS has confessed to me that he has cheated on OW and looks for opportunities even now.
Have you told her this?
Oh yes, WS has confessed to me that he has cheated on OW and looks for opportunities even now. But we also know that he has a problem.
Which begs the question,
again - why would you even want more years together with this cretin? You're defending this man?
TM,
If ever there was an OW that needed to read this, the one in your life is it...
He'll be different with you, you're special
Author Unknown
You two have a "connection," a rapport that he didn't have with his wife. You have more things in common, similar personalities. He's pointed out all the ways that you two are so alike - it's just uncanny. You are so lucky to have met him at this point in your life. He says that he really appreciates you for who you are - and he's the first person to really do that, isn't he? Sure, he said the same things to *her* when he got together with her (and then grew to hate so many things about her), but it's different with you. He couldn't possibly be operating from scripts anymore. And it's so nice to finally have someone YOU can lean on, isn't it? It's hard being on your own, managing a household, and doing it all yourself. All of a sudden, here's this guy offering to help in ways that no one ever did. Knowing all the things you have been longing for and wanting in a partner. He couldn't possibly be hooking into your heart-felt desires and hurt places and pretending to be the answer, because he knows that's where you are vulnerable. He couldn't be pretending to like the things you like, and want the things you want, and be the person you have been looking for, because it's part of his patterns. Just because he did that with the women that came before you, doesn't mean he's doing that with you. He's really sincere this time.
He's told you all his deep dark secrets (at least, all the ones he thinks can win him sympathy and attention). He's acknowledged how he behaved badly in the past (even though it was brought out by who he was with). You two must have a very special connection for him to be so open and "honest". And he seems to be remorseful, so that must mean he won't do that kind of thing again, right? Not with you. You're special. So what if he told his wife the same kinds of deep, dark secrets, opened up in the same way? So what if he exhibited the same kind of remorse for things he did to partners before HER? So what if he told her all the same sob stories and pretended to be working on his [censored] with her? So what if he lied to his therapist and others? He really means it this time, with you.
He says things are going to be different with YOU. Even though he SAYS he accepts responsibility for his actions, he also says that it was really things in HER that brought out his bad behavior. He's not going to be like that with YOU. Sure, he said the same things to HER, but this time he'll be different, because he's told you how YOU are different from her. (So what if he's told other people how you remind him of HER? That doesn't mean he's following the same old patterns, targeting the same types of women. That doesn't mean that he'll be turn emotionally abusive with YOU at some point...) He's such a sweet, wonderful, helpful guy, it MUST have been something in HER that caused him to act badly, right?
So what if he was busy cutting her down behind her back with their mutual friends while he was telling her she was the "best thing that ever happened to him", and that he had "never loved anyone as much as he loved her"? That doesn't mean he still has the capacity to be manipulative and dishonest and cruel. He was just confused, the poor man. And besides, he won't be like that anymore, with the right woman to love him and dote on him. She just didn't give him the kind of attention he really needed. But YOU will. So he'd NEVER do that to YOU.
So what if he didn't leave his wife before he got together with you? It's not like an abuser should spend a few years in therapy, and work on his stuff before getting involved in another intimate relationship, right? I mean, after over 4 decades of emotional abuse and being an abuser, he can get himself fixed up enough to stop harming others in a just few months, with the right woman to rescue, er, "help" him.
And those stories of how his wife emotionally abandoned him... He's just had it so ROUGH all his life! He told you how she didn't even try to keep the marriage together or say that she wanted to try to salvage their relationship when he said he wanted to separate. She was just so unfeeling! The poor man - here he was trying so HARD and all - seeing a counselor and everything! It couldn't possibly be that SHE was so emotionally beaten down by his behavior that she was RELIEVED when he wanted to leave... He couldn't have been emotionally abusive and dishonest with HER too! If his wife didn't trust him, it had nothing to do with HIM and his behavior - it must have been HER issues.
Even if in his past, he DID say, "Some of the problems I bring about by vamping, pumping up the emotional content of a situation. Of course that's easy to do with a new friend. I have a stock of techniques and behaviors, tested. I'm also inventive ... so I pick up new techniques fairly quickly ... It's just I'd rather enjoy the "romance". It comes naturally to me. I enjoy doing it. It's also a head trip for me, with my poor self esteem, to have someone so taken with me. I like the first results, the joyous feelings, the elation, the euphoria, just not where it leads." ... he couldn't possibly still have been doing that with his wife, or even YOU. He has REAL, deep feelings for you. You've even seen him cry and show his vulnerable side. That MUST mean he's sincere, right? He couldn't possibly be using YOU for an ego stroke. Not the man YOU know.
He's just so caring and sensitive and considerate. He's so sweet, rubbing baby oil all over you, making love, sending you little cards, doing all those romantic things. He really does seem too good to be true - cooking, cleaning, intelligent, literate, creative, affectionate. So what if he was like that for the first year or so with her too... before the subtle patterns of abuse started to creep in? So what if all that "wonderful" behavior shifted until he was telling her he loved her one day and then telling others how horrible she was behind her back the next? He wouldn't do that to you too, down the road. She must have brought it out in him. He couldn't possibly be playing the same game over and over again, with you as the next target. No. This time, he'll be different, with you.
So what if he has been incapable of honesty and integrity all his life? So what if he actually admitted to his wife (just about the time you two started up again): "I am afraid of truth-tellers. I have so many lies in my past and present. The truth burns." That couldn't mean that he was telling lies to YOU. After all, he was so HONEST about his dishonesty so THAT'S got to count for something... It must mean he realizes his mistakes and won't make the same ones again, right? The fact that he acknowledges things is so CONVINCING. If he acknowledges it, then he couldn't possibly STILL do those sorts of things. Sure, sure. He had HER convinced too. But he couldn't possibly be STILL lying to YOU. You're special.
Yeah, sure, he might have done those kinds of things in the past, but the past is the past, right? It doesn't have any danger of repeating itself with you. Because you're special. His love for you is so strong and your connection to each other is so different (at least, that's what he has told you, and you know you can trust him, right?), he wouldn't EVER do anything deliberately hurtful or malicious to YOU. He wouldn't undermine YOUR support network and use your friends to hurt YOU. He'd never make snide remarks about YOU behind your back and then make sure you found out about it. No no no. She must have brought that out in him. But you, you're special.
Besides, he's been in therapy. That must mean he's sincere, right? He wouldn't possibly be using the whole "therapy" thing as a cover-up to make himself look better because his reputation got damaged after the fiasco with his wife. He couldn't possibly be using contrition, and the "I feel so bad about myself"-line to get sympathy and support! He couldn't possibly be going after women who have a strong sense of personal responsibility because he knows how to manipulate that to try and get them to feel responsible for HIS sick feelings. He couldn't possibly be seeking out active, intelligent, dedicated women, so that he can PUNISH them when they don't direct all that energy to HIM. Just because he has engaged in such manipulative behavior in the past doesn't mean he would be doing that NOW. Not with YOU. You're SPECIAL.
He's so contrite and sincere about "working on his issues", he couldn't possibly be lying about that. Just because he has a history pathological lying to himself and others, doesn't mean he'll be that way with you. Besides, if he has deceived himself so completely that HE doesn't know it's a lie, then he can't be held accountable for it, right? He can always claim that he doesn't have good "memory" for things in the past. But don't worry. He won't use that sort of deception and evasion with YOU. You're special.
The poor guy just made bad choices before (you). Sure he made mistakes, but if his ex doesn't want to have anything to do with him, and now think he is mentally ill, it must be because SHE is unstable - I mean, look at how amazing and kind and charming he is with you... He couldn't possibly have been like that with HER TOO... He wouldn't be using stock romance "lines" on YOU.
This time, it's REALLY love. You're Special.
Sure, he did a *few* things in his past that were unkind, but he needs to be forgiven for HIS behavior, (after all, she drove him to it), but HER mistakes and reactions to his emotional abuse, were unforgivable. But things will be different with you. He won't think YOUR mistakes are unforgivable. He won't apply a double-standard to YOU. He won't expect YOU to be perfect and subtely criticize you when you don't measure up to his standards. You're the one who is going to change his life.
And speaking of unforgivable, of COURSE he can't forgive her for doing things that *hurt* him (he's so deeply sensitive, you see) - but he couldn't possibly have lied about the things he said she did. He couldn't possibly have "set up" situations so he could cry foul... He wouldn't have ENCOURAGED her to do things so he could later claim that he was hurt by her... And, well, even if he DID, maybe do that, he certainly won't do it with YOU. You're too special for that. Any time he tells you he's happy for you and he encourages you to do something, he'll REALLY mean it, with YOU. He won't create a revisionist fantasy of your past so that he can insist you did things to hurt him as a justification for his cruelty to you. He won't secretly resent you for not devoting all your time to him. Even if he DID do that with her, he won't do it with you. Especially after he makes all those sacrifices for you. He won't secretly be dependent on YOU for all his attention. He won't be more demanding of you and your time and resent you when you don't give it all to him. Not THIS time. You're SPECIAL.
He's such a nice guy, he won't "help" you (especially unsolicited) and then have an unstated hidden agenda like he did with all the others. He's going to claim his right to be "selfish" now, because he's been so USED from all the excessive GIVING he did in the past that nobody really appreciated. The poor guy. He's never taken time to be selfish in the past - not even when he was sitting alone in his room, sucking off his hurts, or using other people. That wasn't selfish - that was just "acting out". But he's better now. Don't worry. He won't use his new-found right to be "selfish" against YOU. No. He really is a changed man, with you. With you he will give unconditionally.
It's no WONDER he behaved so badly! Look at how his wife was always hurting him, oppressing him with her refusal to live her life solely for him, expecting him to be honest with his feelings and actions, when he just wasn't ready. And besides, he just can't handle confrontation, you know? And like, she's just so SCARY when she's upset (it's just so unbeCOMing when women display any anger!) that he HAD to act that way. She actually raised her voice at times! Can you imagine? Nobody else is allowed to have anger and raise their voice except HIM. Because, like, he can't DEAL with it, and he shouldn't be expected to! He couldn't possibly have been projecting HIS issues on her so that someone else could have his anger FOR him, or so that he could get angry with someone other than himself! He couldn't possibly have been DELIBERATELY hitting all her hot buttons to hurt and upset her so he could lay blame. And, well, even if he DID do that for years, he won't do it anymore, with you.
And if somehow you accidentally do things that "trigger" his old abuse patterns, he'll be so sweet in telling you how you are doing things that remind him of her, so that YOU can change YOUR behavior. After all, you wouldn't want him to start acting emotionlly abusive again because of something YOU did.
And you don't have to worry about that, because you'll never get upset with him, and you'll never challenge him to be honest or to accept responsibility for his actions. SHE did that, and it was "controlling," but it'll be different with you, because you know better. And you won't need to worry about calling him on his behavior anyway, because he'll NEVER lie to YOU. He'll always be completely honest and upfront with you. He won't have to "forget" any promises he made to YOU. If he is inconsiderate, it won't be DELIBERATE, with you. If he lied to her or anyone else, it was because they drove him to it. With you, he won't withhold information, or distort or omitt the truth. He won't break fundamental relationship agreements with YOU. He won't HAVE to, because you'll be right there validating him 24/7, supporting him and telling him how he's so CLEVER and BRAVE to have escaped such a horrible relationship, and how wonderful it is that he is working so HARD to overcome his terrible past!
And it's a good thing he's not going to do any of those things he might have done in the past, because then you won't have to worry about forgiving him. You see, she REPEATEDLY forgave him for the lies and the accidentally-on-purpose "mistakes", and all that did was make him feel bad about himself - that she could forgive and he couldn't. Wasn't that AWFUL of her to make him feel so bad that way? So she DESERVED to be punished even more. And she should NEVER have shown any guilt when he manipulated her. It just caused him to hurt her more. He told her it was "like blood in the water for sharks" for him. She should have known better. YOU know better. But then, he won't be manipulative and passive-aggressive with YOU. He'll be different with you. You're SPECIAL.
And sure he made her work at the relationship when he wasn't really trying, but that wasn't being dishonest - he just didn't know what he really wanted, so that made it OK to put the burden of the relationship responsibility on her. Sure he admitted that he wanted her to make him the first priority in HER life, but he wasn't willing to afford her the same consideration. But that wasn't one of his patterns. He won't do that with YOU. Besides, he admitted his dishonest behavior after he abandon her, so that makes it ok. It erases everything. His slate's clean. He even said he was sorry, months later, so that shows how sincere he was. He couldn't possibly still have been interlacing the apology with blame. He's not STILL acting manipulative and projecting issues.... and well, if he is, he's only doing that with HER because of their history - he wouldn't do that with YOU.
And it's so sweet how he still talks about how much he cared for his wife, how much he did for her out of love. Sometimes, he even talks fondly of his treasured memories of her, of how she "helped" him (when she wasn't hurting him, the witch) - that must mean he's a deep, sensitive guy, right? Maybe you can even "help" him to forgive her and heal from his terrible past... Just like SHE thought she could "help" him.
And besides, he did so many NICE things for her and all those other women. That should count for SOMETHING, right? It's not like he was emotionally abusive or manipulative ALL the time. So it kind of cancels things out, right? It's not like he HIT anyone or anything. At least the things he did didn't leave any VISIBLE marks. Besides, he probably just made honest mistakes, that's all. He couldn't have actually got off on seeing them hurt and crying. He wouldn't have LAUGHED condescendingly in someone's face while she was crying. Not the man YOU are involved with. HE certainly doesn't remember doing anything like that - and HIS memory is inviolate.
He's told you how different he feels with YOU. How different he IS with you. How healing your love is. How much he NEEDS you. What a wonderful person he thinks you are. How important you are in his life. How much he values and appreciates you, and misses you when you are not together. How amazingly transformed he feels now that he has finally met someone as SPECIAL as YOU. So what if he told her the same things? He really MEANS it this time, with you. He's a changed person, (this time, for REAL) with you. You're special.
You don't need to talk to any of his ex's to find out what he was REALLY like, because the past is the past, right? You couldn't possibly learn anything from their experiences, because he's not going to be like that anymore. It couldn't possibly be that they have anything valid to say. Besides, you trust him to tell you the WHOLE TRUTH about his past (as far as he can "remember" it), right?
And he's such a sensitive, caring guy, he REALLY does wish he and his wife could be FRIENDS now. He can't understand why she would have NO desire to have any contact with him, NO desire to have anything to do with him - after all he did for her, after what they had. After all, SHE is the one who did unforgivable things. He's so uncomfortable around her now, because of how much she hurt him. He wouldn't STILL be projecting HIS issues on her, and implying that they are HER issues... After all, he's a changed man.
But you don't have to worry. He won't PUBLICLY divulge YOUR insecurities or deeply intimate things you told him in confidence to other women - he won't betray your trust - like he did with her. No matter what happens between you and him, you'll ALWAYS BE FRIENDS. You and he will always be able to work things out. So what if he said EXACTLY THE SAME THING TO HER (and all the others) too? It'll be different with you. You're special.
He won't wait a year or two before he starts in on YOU. He won't then use his knowledge of YOUR insecurities and emotional hot buttons to deliberately hurt YOU. He won't start using psychological warfare to couch his deliberately hurtful actions in social plausibility with YOU. He won't flirt with your close friends and use any attraction they might have to him, against YOU. NO. He won't tell you that you just weren't meeting his needs or living up to his expectations. He won't expect you to read his mind. He won't try to make it look like YOU are the reason he is unhappy, and YOU are the cause of your relationship problems. He won't set you up to get upset with him so that YOU are the one who breaks it off with him, (or you get so angry with him that he HAS to break it off with YOU) and HE looks like a martyr (AGAIN). So what if he made all the same promises to her? Just because he was following some of his old patterns when he got involved with you, doesn't mean he's going to follow through on the rest of them. He's CHANGED now.
You're special. Just like SHE was when he was with HER. Just like they ALL thought they were.
YOU are the one who can "fix" his wounded ego. Your relationship with him will be So Much Better than his last ones, because you're special! With you, he'll be honest and straight-forward for the first time in his life. He won't become cruel or passive-aggressive. He won't play headgames anymore. He'll stop using and discarding people like old kleenex. He won't be rude or unkind or disrespectful like he was with those other women. HE LOVES YOU SO MUCH, HE'S NOW A CHANGED MAN. (Changed for the better, of course.) Not because of therapy. Not because he's removed himself from relationships and taken some serious time to get his [censored] together. Not because he's done any REAL work. Not because he's actually admitted to his real motivations, or made a single sincere change.
He just needed to find the RIGHT woman to "save" him from himself and "help" him become a better man, and that's YOU.
You just KNOW he'll be different with you. Right?
It'd be nice if one of her pals could pass that on to her, eh?
Mrs. W
Oh yes, WS has confessed to me that he has cheated on OW and looks for opportunities even now. But we also know that he has a problem.
Which begs the question,
again - why would you even want more years together with this cretin? You're defending this man?
Hi catperson,
No, I haven't told her. I doubt very much if she would believe me and even if she questioned him, he would spin her a line that she would want to hear. Telling her would only prove in her eyes what a "psycho" I am.
With the gift of hindsight, I can pretty much go back in my head and say "this is when it started". I would approach him about things to find out what was wrong. It never occurred to me that he could be cheating because we had had 17 to 18 good years prior to that. Of course, he knew what the problem was and always promised to put more effort in. Which he did, for a while, but not long enough to break the addiction. Any issues between us then were never serious enough for me to go onto the internet in search of answers. So of course, I love busted like a good'un which inevitably made the situation worse.
Now
I know what the problem is and I believe that we can solve it and then work together to bring our marriage back to an even better place than it was before. I just want to be given the opportunity because I know that we are the best thing for each other when we are walking along the same path.
TM,
If ever there was an OW that needed to read this, the one in your life is it...
He'll be different with you, you're special
Author Unknown
You two have a "connection," .....
....He just needed to find the RIGHT woman to "save" him from himself and "help" him become a better man, and that's YOU.
You just KNOW he'll be different with you. Right?
It'd be nice if one of her pals could pass that on to her, eh?
Mrs. W
Wow Mrs W, I really appreciate your input on my thread because I have read what you have been through.
Unfortunately, I don't think that either her or the majority of her friends have the mental capacity to read all of this, let alone digest it's meaning.
My round 2 e-mail is a combination of everyone's suggestions - so thanks to all.
Here it is:
Hello,
OW has encouraged me to contact you and let you know that she is having an adulterous affair with my husband, WS. These past 16 months of our marriage, with WS working abroad, have been testing but 22 years is a lot to throw away just because of his addictive personality.
After telling me about OW, WS and I went on a family holiday with my nieces where we all had a great time. OW knows that I am fighting to save our marriage but her continued presence in it is preventing WS from being able to make clear choices.
If you care about OW then please support her to make the right choices for her family, which clearly would not include continuing a relationship with a married cheater.
Please feel free to contact me at ... if you would like additional information.
Many thanks,
BS
P.S. If you are reading this and thinking that it is ME who should be ashamed for letting the world know the Truth, please be aware that it is wrong to Commit adultery, it is Not wrong to Expose adultery.
TM,
If ever there was an OW that needed to read this, the one in your life is it...
[quote]He'll be different with you, you're special
Author Unknown
That is absolute class .... made me smile. It really did. That should be mandatory reading for every OP.
Now I know what the problem is and I believe that we can solve it and then work together to bring our marriage back to an even better place than it was before. I just want to be given the opportunity because I know that we are the best thing for each other when we are walking along the same path.
So, what exactly IS your plan to break an addiction, to make HIM WANT to break an addiction?
Now I know what the problem is and I believe that we can solve it and then work together to bring our marriage back to an even better place than it was before. I just want to be given the opportunity because I know that we are the best thing for each other when we are walking along the same path.
So, what exactly IS your plan to break an addiction, to make HIM WANT to break an addiction?
I suppose the plan is to make him not want to lose me. And then for him to realise that in order to have me, he must want to break the addiction. He can't have both and he has to figure out for himself which is more important to him in his own long term goals for happiness. This whole process should show him how much I care for him and want him. Whether those feelings will ever be reciprocated again, I don't know.
Oh yes, WS has confessed to me that he has cheated on OW and looks for opportunities even now.
Have you told her this?
This kind of behavior is very SELF destructive.
Does he show other signs of setting himself up for failure/disease/death?
Just wondering.
Oh yes, WS has confessed to me that he has cheated on OW and looks for opportunities even now.
Have you told her this?
This kind of behavior is very SELF destructive.
Does he show other signs of setting himself up for failure/disease/death?
Just wondering.
Not really. he did put on a lot of weight due to eating out all the time, drinking and not doing exercise but last time I saw him he had lost the weight, although I suspect that he still drinks more than he should. He is very conscientious in his work and would not want to jeopordise his career in any way.
I was just wondering.
Sometimes people choose to engage in self destructive behaviors as a pleasurable way to get out of life, kwim?
If this is the way he's been for a long while, it's prolly not that.
,
Have you contacted this boy's Dad to let him know what kind of environment HIS son is being raised in?? If I was the parent, I would WANT to know what my child us being exposed to.........just a thought....
Not2fun
ps....kudos on the FB exposure.....there's nothing better than rattling the ho's cage a little....
,
Have you contacted this boy's Dad to let him know what kind of environment HIS son is being raised in?? If I was the parent, I would WANT to know what my child us being exposed to.........just a thought....
Not2fun
ps....kudos on the FB exposure.....there's nothing better than rattling the ho's cage a little....
Thanks, not2fun
Yes, OWH was the first person I contacted back in July when I found out OW's full name and details. He ignored both my e-mails (I even pointed him here) and told OW to keep him out of her affairs. He wasn't interested.
If WS ever talks to me again I may ask him to ask himself the question as to why I am fighting for our marriage but OWH isn't fighting for theirs?
TM - here are my suggestions.
My round 2 e-mail is a combination of everyone's suggestions - so thanks to all.
Here it is:
Hello,
OW has encouraged me to contact you and let you know that she is having an adulterous affair with my husband, WS. These past 16 months of our marriage, with WS working abroad, have been testing but 22 years is a lot to throw away just because even with his admitted of his addictive personality.
After telling me about OW, Even after all this WS and I went on a family holiday with my nieces where and we all had a great time. including WH OW knows that I am fighting to save our marriage but her continued presence in it is preventing WS from being able to make clear choices yet she continues to choose to try to destroy our family.
If you care about OW then please support encourage her to make the right choices for her family, which clearly would not include continuing a relationship with a married cheater.
Please feel free to contact me at ... if you would like additional information.
Many thanks,
BS
P.S. If you are reading this and thinking that it is ME who should be ashamed for letting the world know the Truth, please be aware consider that it is wrong to COMMIT adultery, it is not wrong to EXPOSE adultery. If more people would be stand up for what's right, our world would be a better place.
Thanks, princessmeggy - I like what you have done there.
Hey TM,
Good email but just wanted to point out that this is a one time thing, you cant email OW friends more than once so please MAKE IT COUNT, i dont mean that you need to write an essay but giving them more specific facts (ie WS previous cheating past, OW behaviour towards you etc) will go a long way. I know that you may be worried about your WS reaction but in all honesty having read your story i dont think you have much left to loose by fully exposing his character to OW friends
Hey TM,
Good email but just wanted to point out that this is a one time thing, you cant email OW friends more than once so please MAKE IT COUNT, i dont mean that you need to write an essay but giving them more specific facts (ie WS previous cheating past, OW behaviour towards you etc) will go a long way. I know that you may be worried about your WS reaction but in all honesty having read your story i dont think you have much left to loose by fully exposing his character to OW friends
You are right. My heart has been pounding today because I am going to e-mail tonight. There is no way that I can go through stress like this again. I understand what you are saying about letting them know about WS's serial cheating but the truth is that OW knows what he is like because that is how she met him. And I am sure that most of her friends will know as well because they go to the same places and can see that WS's behaviour is far from demure.
I will have a last look and maybe throw in a few more phrases or re-word a few things. And yes, I have nothing to lose. He is almost lost to me anyway.
Thank you
Im really keeping my fingers corssed for you and hoping things work out,
you said OW know about WS behaviour, but her friends are the ones your getting to sit up and pay attention to the situation so you need to inform them. Its not about getting information to OW its about getting her friends to stop the stupidness she is getting involved in. Let them know about you and who you are so next time they see WS and OW they will remember your exsistance and maybe do the right thing. By the sound of her email she has been spinning alot of bull about you and the way you supposedly treated WS and his family badly, you need to clarify your position so that they have no excuse for their behaviour.
Technically, in the P.S. it should be "it is I" not "it is me", but that could be considered grammar nit-picking...
tl
but that could be considered grammar nit-picking...
and that'd be the LAST thing I'd expect from you TL!
Hi Folks!
Just to let you know that I sent the round 2 e-mail this morning to 22 FB friends who seemed the closest to OW. Mainly ones who wished her Happy Birthday or are going to her party on Saturday.
The version I used is as princessmeggy suggested but with the grammatical correction.
Thanks to everyone for your input on this. I will post an update when I get to hear of the fallout.
TM
I'd love to be at that party
I'd love to be at that party
If anyone in the SoCal area is free Saturday night and would like to go to a party, send me a message and I will give you the address.
OMG, TM, that is awesome....... HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!
Great! Nothing like a thoughtful birthday present.
Well done TM for sending email hope you get the breack you need, keep us posted!
Hi All,
I got replies from 7 of her FB friends. Most were telling me that I was sad and embarrassing myself. WS and OW are very much in love and I should just walk away and leave them to it. I have responded to all with thanks for their reply. One person was particularly rational and kind. So OW does know some good people.
Anyway, here are the two e-mails OW sent me:
Thanks. Great conversation for my party....
and
BS,
I'm sorry for the rude e-mails I have sent over the last few days but you really made mad. It's not like me to be vindictive or go out the way to hurt someone. That is plain and simple just not like me. I honestly feel bad and it is heavy on my heart to have done this too you when I know you are hurting.
This is all I am going to say and you won�t hear from me again. Just please don�t contact any of my friends or family. You know that is not going to get you anywhere. This is between you and WS.
Don�t read into this that something happened or WS asked me to do this because I just decided on my own. Takes a lot out of you to dislike someone�..I realized that over the last couple days.
Thank you,
OW
Any thoughts?
TM
That is just great! You have evidence that this exposure is causing conflict in affairville. Now instead of having a romantic evening, your H will have to listen to the OW spit fury about YOU. And guess what will happen when she does too much of that? HE WILL BECOME DEFENSIVE OF YOU.
I read OW's e-mails out to my sister and she said that it will push them closer together. My sister said that WS would see from her e-mails how much my exposure is hurting her and will want to comfort her.
This is the opposite of what MelodyLane says and whilst I want to believe Mel it does seem more logical that he is going to care more for the feelings of the woman that he is actually with.
WS didn't reply to my forwarding of OW's e-mails, although he did call yesterday three times without leaving a message.
If WS calls today, how can I get across the message that I only did it because I care about him and want to recover our marriage? To non-MBer's the exposure will undoubtably come across as a desperate action by a woman scorned.
If WS doesn't call today, how do I now Plan A someone who is Plan B'ing me?
Thanks,
TM
I got replies from 7 of her FB friends. Most were telling me that I was sad and embarrassing myself. WS and OW are very much in love and I should just walk away and leave them to it. I have responded to all with thanks for their reply.
Well done! I suspect a few of those were "knee-jerk" reactions, and those friends might develop an entirely different point of view when they take time to actually think about what you said in your message.
As for the OW's message, looks like she's realised her previous approach did not scare you away, and she's now trying something different. In any case, there's no need to have further contact with her friends and family, as the exposure is done.
The FB friends are toxic enablers that have bought into her lies.
They will be held accountable on the day of reconing.
Time to make the affair financially unpleasant.
Lawyer up, get a spousal support judgment and start dividing assets.
I agree that if WS cannot afford all the trips and outings that he currently pays for, OW may not find him as attractive.
However, I have never relied on WS for any form of financial support. We have always divided the bills up equally and although we had joint credit cards, we never had joint bank accounts. I don't know that I would have a case for spousal support because I really don't need it.
I agree with Pariah.
If you're so worried about WHAT PEOPLE THINK then just go ahead and file for divorce, to prove to them that you are not desparate, but trying to shine light on evil before you move on with your life.
No one here can help you if all you care about is your image.
Your image is already shattered because you 'weren't good enough' to keep your man. Just keep on acting like that. Take the advice of your one sister.
Or take the advice based on THOUSANDS of experienced people and follow the MB plan.
Your choice.
I agree with Pariah.
If you're so worried about WHAT PEOPLE THINK then just go ahead and file for divorce, to prove to them that you are not desparate, but trying to shine light on evil before you move on with your life.
No one here can help you if all you care about is your image.
Your image is already shattered because you 'weren't good enough' to keep your man. Just keep on acting like that. Take the advice of your one sister.
Or take the advice based on THOUSANDS of experienced people and follow the MB plan.
Your choice.
When did I say I was worried about what people think? I don't even know these people. I couldn't give a toss. My image is untarnished amongst the people who I do know and who I care about. I said I didn't want WS to think badly of me. That is different. He is one of the people I care about.
I have already acted on the advice of the people here by doing the FB exposure. I would never have done that otherwise.
The point about what my sister said was that it interested me the different viewpoints people can have. I was keen to hear what other MB'ers think about it. My sister has not given me any advice in this whole process. All my sisters support me 100% in what I am doing and not one has suggested that I file for divorce. I said right from the start that I was speaking with a coach and would follow whatever advice he gave me and everyone accepted that.
I know I have a choice and I made it a long time ago never to give up on my marriage.
Where did you say you care what people think?
Here:
I read OW's e-mails out to my sister and she said that it will push them closer together. My sister said that WS would see from her e-mails how much my exposure is hurting her and will want to comfort her.
And here:
To non-MBer's the exposure will undoubtably come across as a desperate action by a woman scorned.
If you don't believe in what you're doing, if you aren't MAD at being cheated on, why should anyone else?
Maybe no one has had the discussion with you yet about your H's anger at exposure. Here it is: Your marriage can survive your H's anger; it can't survive a third person in it.
Also, do you want your H to think you're a doormat, or a woman who DESERVES great respect and better treatment? If you just slink along, he will continue to lose respect for you. And OW will look better and better.
Fighting for your marriage makes you look strong, smart, and full of self-respect. In other words, WORTH KEEPING.
>I got replies from 7 of her FB friends. Most were telling me that I was sad and embarrassing myself.
And?
The seed of doubt is there now. These people will be holding their own spouses that much closer at her party because they know how both of them are.
Good job!
Hi catperson,
You seem to be taking my quotes out of context.
I found my sister's viewpoint interesting and that is why I mentioned it. I like to hear lots of different people's opinions on things. I find it broadens my mind. Yes, she sees things different from others but in reality nobody knows whether OW's e-mails will make WS defend me or comfort OW because we are not WS and we are not there.
The non-MBers quote was in relation to my question of how can I get the point across to WS that I exposed to save our marriage when he will be seeing it from the viewpoint of a non-MBer?
I would still like some suggestions for this in case he does call me.
And yes, I did say to WS: Our marriage can survive your anger and it can survive your infidelity. It can't survive with a third person in it.
I haven't been slinking along. I've been following the advice given me by Steve Harley.
Thank you. I do think that I am strong, smart and full of self-respect.
Fair enough. The way I read your discussion of your sister is that you were thinking of dropping MB plan simply because she said differently. If not, good for you.
TM,
If you get any more replies from POS-OW's friends, respond like this: "While I understand your desire to see your friend happy, I'd hope you'd see it from another point of view as well. For example, if POS-OW had decided to target YOUR man, and suddenly THEY were happy and in love, would that be OK? I'm asking you to look at things the way God would. Quite simply, is it right to be a homewrecker, just because it gives you hedonistic pleasure? And if so, does that mean that turnabout would be fair game as well?"
Do unto others--the golden rule, my friend.
Furthermore, before you start thinking about MB as some sort of cult, with views contrary to what makes sense in the rest of the world, I'd ask you to consider this:
Conventional marriage-saving techniques (no exposure, no plan A, plan B, etc) have a success rate of around 18%. The MB success rate is more than FOUR TIMES as successful.
Whereas, 18 out of 100 struggling marriages might recover conventionally, 80+ our of 100 struggling marriages recover when the participants use MB. Which odds would you rather have in your corner?
Time to go and seduce OW toxic friends husbands and send them pix and video tapes.
Don�t read into this that something happened or WS asked me to do this because I just decided on my own. Takes a lot out of you to dislike someone�..I realized that over the last couple days.
Now you have confirmation that the two of them discussed the emails that SHE sent to you.
I'm sorry for the rude e-mails I have sent over the last few days but you really made mad. It's not like me to be vindictive or go out the way to hurt someone.
THIS sounds like what SHE told WH to defend HERSELF when he confronted her about the emails she sent you.
Just please don�t contact any of my friends or family. You know that is not going to get you anywhere. This is between you and WS.
New tactic to get you to back off from exposure.
Your exposure worked!
Thanks. Great conversation for my party....
Her BD party is ruined.
But, so is the good opinion of her friends. That will hurt a long time. And it will SOUR their affair.
This is how it works. Her affair isn't as perfect as it once was....when no one knew what she was up to.
Pariah is joking, of course!
right Pariah?
We lead by example, not by getting into the mud and rutting with the other pigs..
Hold your head high. Keep the moral high ground.
Pariah is joking, of course!
right Pariah?
Now if this was Dude posting this...
Never mind...
Mark
If WS calls today, how can I get across the message that I only did it because I care about him and want to recover our marriage? To non-MBer's the exposure will undoubtably come across as a desperate action by a woman scorned.
I've found that WH's understand exposure better than WW's. Men seem to be able to "get" what you are doing much better than women.
But, if he doesn't get it, and attacks you for it, simply state what your motivation was, and say you will never apologize for trying to save your M.
If he doesn't get it now, he will.
Hang in there. You're doing great.
TM,
If you get any more replies from POS-OW's friends, respond like this: "While I understand your desire to see your friend happy, I'd hope you'd see it from another point of view as well. For example, if POS-OW had decided to target YOUR man, and suddenly THEY were happy and in love, would that be OK? I'm asking you to look at things the way God would. Quite simply, is it right to be a homewrecker, just because it gives you hedonistic pleasure? And if so, does that mean that turnabout would be fair game as well?"
Do unto others--the golden rule, my friend.
Thanks imanotherone,
I like this response. I might miss out the POS reference though.
Marshmallow,
Thank you for interpreting the latest e-mail. It was my thought too that even though WS didn't respond to me he did speak to OW about the e-mails.
I'm sorry Marshmallow I don't know your story and don't know if you are a man or a woman. Why do you think that men "get" exposure better than women?
Thank you for your encouraging words.
I'm a woman... a FWW.
And I base my opinion just on what I have read here.
The only time I've seen a WH react badly to exposure was when his job was threatened. And that was only ONE WH. And he eventually came around.
WW's are another matter entirely.
Hey TM, sorry your still having a hard time with all of this going on. The only thing i didnt get is why you didnt use the exposure email to tell your point of view?? WS and OW are getting away with painting you out to be the monster in this situation by claimng you were mean to WS and his family etc, Why didnt you fight back? Why didnt you fully expose your WS cheating behaiour before and during relationship with OW?
These are vital items that will justify your contact with OW friends rather than the email seem to be just a stating information they were probably aware of.
Its done now but if you get the above points you can reply to OW friends replyes to exposure email in a way that will get them asking her questions about her relationship with WS. Let me put it this way, the people that felt so strongly about getting your email are probably the people closest to OW, therefore they were defending her by slamming you, if you can get through to these people and give them the unedited side of your story then they are the people who are most likely to influence OW and her relationship with your WS. Go back and read the replyes you got. choose the worse ones and make a point of replying nicely not in a desperate way but in a way that it will make them understand your position no matter who they are.
If you need help with this email me and ill happily review each reply for you and help you answer in a way taht will make them engage in conversation with you.
Trying to educate OW's friends is a waste of time, IMO.
They wouldn't be her friends if they didn't have the same stinking values she does.
Just please don�t contact any of my friends or family.
THIS is where you really need to hit her. Any leads on her parent's phone number?
You need to ring up that tart's family and ask if they really raised their daughter to commit adultery.
One more thing...
This is all I am going to say and you won�t hear from me again.
Now that she knows you will pass her emails onto your WH, she knows she'd better be careful what she says to you. He probably told her to stop emailing you. Which is why she said she won't do it again.
If he finds out she did, she will say, she JUST wanted to apologize.
When the truth is, she wrote that last email b/c she wants you to stop exposing her.
She's
Especially worried you might expose to her parents.
Oh, and none of THIS was directed at you...
I'm sorry for the rude e-mails I have sent over the last few days but you really made mad. It's not like me to be vindictive or go out the way to hurt someone.
All of it was put there for WH to read in case you share it w/ him.
She doesn't give a crap what you think of her.
Brutally Honest28, Marshmallow and Pariah
OW says in her e-mail that she is not normally vindictive. Well, she would say that wouldn't she? In the same way, a BS is obviously going to want to let people how nice she is and relate all the good experiences between WS and BS. OW friends are unlikely to want to believe anything positive about the BS. In my replies to OW's friends I did take the opportunity to relay a few things regarding our relationship.
I am sure that I did contact OW's mums in my first round and I don't know what would be achieved by contacting them again. I don't have their phone numbers. If they reply to my mail, then that will be my opportunity to open up a dialogue with them. If they don't respond, then they are not interested anyway.
If you still have the parents' emails, use them again. And again. That's what the OW told you NOT to do. Whenever she and WH WANT you to do something, you do the opposite.
They want you quiet.
You make noise.
They don't sound clever enough to try reverse psychology.
TM -- Great job.
Please be sure to use IMA's very classy, high-road response to each that sent you a message.
You have the high road TM. Stay on it and conduct yourself with class and dignity! BrutallyHonest is right -- each of those friends that sent you "negative" messages are the ones who have the most influence with OW. If you send them the response that IMA suggested, they really can't argue with it! Its brilliant!
Be prepared with your mantra when WH calls you -- you are doing this to save your marriage. Your marriage is important and you will do whatever is necessary to save it. Committing adultery is wrong, exposing it is not.
I am sure that I did contact OW's mums in my first round and I don't know what would be achieved by contacting them again. I don't have their phone numbers. If they reply to my mail, then that will be my opportunity to open up a dialogue with them. If they don't respond, then they are not interested anyway.
If I had a dime for every BS who says that about the OW's parents. Why are women so afraid to be seen as strong and fighting for what they deserve? Is it because we were raised to be 'nice'? Now is not the time to be polite and shy and retiring. You need a real dialogue with her parents and whatever siblings etc. she has. She has specifically told you NOT to contact these people. These are the people she is scared to death that you will contact!
What is your marriage worth? Is it worth $300 to hire a PI to find out their contact information?
I'm a mother. And if my son's (or daughter) ever cheated on their future spouse and the BS called me, I'd be very grateful. And yes, they'd get an earful from me.
Just like my H's mother did when I called her.
Yup. I have adult children too and I would not HESITATE to say my piece to a wayward child of mine. I would be GRATEFUL to be told. My child would be mortified that I knew. However, admittedly, not everyone shares the same values.
My MIL was very understanding. And she completely told H that what he had done was wrong wrong wrong and there was absolutely no justification for it.
My MIL is wonderful. She has been an unexpected source of support. She listened to me bawl in the parking lot of my OB-Gyn's office when I went to go get tested for STD's. She cried with me and said that I shouldn't have to suffer because of HIS bad decisions, etc. I am very glad she knows what happened.
I have told both D29 and D16 that married people "do not date". If either of my Ds did this in the future and I got a call from a BS, I would personally pick up the BS go to my daughter's house and whop them in public.
You know where my sympathy lies.
WS just called - he said he was concerned because I hadn't been online IM for a few days. I have honestly been out with friends. He was keen to know where I was going and who with. I was suitably vague.
He really wanted to know how I managed to e-mail three of her relatives in my first round. I declined to tell him, but made him laugh in the process - I think that he likes my sense of humour.
He wanted to know whether I had any plans to e-mail more. I said I didn't have plans to on Monday until I received threatening, abusive e-mails encouraging me to do so.
He knew about her apology e-mail but said it was nothing to do with him. Yeah right.
We then talked a bit about my neice (who is going through hard times) and I said under normal circumstances, I would ask him to give her a call. He said he would think about it.
We then discussed a message I had sent him with his favourite chocolate and he said he would read it again and let me know nect week.
I finished with this: You know how hard I am fighting for our marriage. And you know how much I want you? Yes, he said. So, I said, why isn't anyone fighting for OW?
Long pause, I will think about it.
At the end he repeated that he was just calling to see how I was.
He wanted to know whether I had any plans to e-mail more. I said I didn't have plans to on Monday until I received threatening, abusive e-mails encouraging me to do so.
It was a mistake to answer his question this way.
You didn't do it to be vindictive, you weren't motivated to expose b/c she upset you...right?
You did it TO SAVE YOUR MARRIAGE.
Your response said, otherwise.
Still, exposure had a big impact on their A. It seems to be the only subject either of them are interested in.
Please reconsider exposing MORE. Hire a PI like Cat suggested and phone her parents.
At the end he repeated that he was just calling to see how I was.
Yup, AND to find out if you are finished exposing.
I just wanted to add, that I think you are very brave to step so far out of your comfort zone and expose at all. It is clear that you are a very nice person, who would rather not confront anyone. Just know that we are trying to nudge you further b/c we know that exposure is your greatest weapon in destroying this A.
I agree with Marsh, TM...And you know what? I'm starting to wonder if you really did hit on the moms with that first email contact, or if that is just what they are leading you to believe in a effort to stop you from really getting in touch with her parents...Sneaky little wayward type tactic...If I were you, I'd move heaven and earth making absolutely certain that you contacted the parents...
You really are doing well, TM...We just want to ensure that you have all of the bases covered...We very much want to see this affair crumble, so we'll all continue to push you, but hold your hand while doing so, deal? (((((TM)))))
Mrs. W
I agree with Marsh, TM...And you know what? I'm starting to wonder if you really did hit on the moms with that first email contact, or if that is just what they are leading you to believe in a effort to stop you from really getting in touch with her parents...Sneaky little wayward type tactic...If I were you, I'd move heaven and earth making absolutely certain that you contacted the parents...
You really are doing well, TM...We just want to ensure that you have all of the bases covered...We very much want to see this affair crumble, so we'll all continue to push you, but hold your hand while doing so, deal? (((((TM)))))
Mrs. W
Thank you Mrs W - they are my first hugs. The first in a very long time.
I am so sure I got OW parents because I remember her telling me what one's first name is and the other's surname.
I am down today.
One of OW's friends sent me a copy of an e-mail WS sent to OW's friends:
This is WS. I write this "without prejudice" to my legal position in the eventual divorce proceedings.
I�m sending this in response to the e-mail that you may or may not have received this morning from my ex.
I apologise to everyone being involved in a matter between me and my psychotic ex.
Yes, I was with her 22 years but during this time she treated me and my family badly. That�s why I left her.
As an error of judgment on my part, I agreed to go on holiday a while back with her as an school exam treat for her niece. This was promised a year ago in 2007 and I try to always keep promises. I did not have a great time.
OW and I are in love and BS is trying to destroy this.
I am a cheater and I treated WS badly.
I have apologised. BUT she treated me equally as bad over 22 years and she admits that. We have grown apart for last 10 years well before I met OW. When I left BS the intention was to set her free to find someone better than me
She chooses however to be vindictive and send nasty e-mails. This is an example of the nastiness she has shown my dear brother and wife. This nastiness is why we broke up not because of OW. OW is completely innocent in this.
BS knows this and can't acknowledge that we are over and its time to move on.
Again I am sorry for involving everyone
WSI am so upset about this because all the stuff he says about me is lies. Honestly, it is. I have admitted my failings as a wife in meeting his needs. But I haven't treated him equally badly and I have never been nasty to anyone. Ever. In my whole life. I admit to moaning about people behind their backs but most people do that, don't they?
I don't know what it would be worth contacting anyone else. The replies that I have received so far show that they are generally people without morals and of fairly low intelligence.
((((TM))))
I am so sorry i really am. that is such a horrid thing for him to do especially since he called you to check up on how you were doing, why be so two faced, Im not making excuses for him but I guarantee OW will have had alot to do with that.
Next step is to remember that OW and her friends will be watching your reaction on your FB profile update so use that for all you can. USE IT TO DEFEND YOURSELF update your status like this for instance
,,,,Is feeling baffled by her exes two faced behaviour, one minute he is kissing my neck in the living room, calling me to check if im ok the next minute he is claiming im psycotic. Hummm whos behaviour sounds more psycotic to you?? LOL
Get nasty lady Plan A is over he is obviousely too much of a whimp to follow his feelings, letting OW influence what he does, well show him that you mean business and start spilling the beans.
Ill even add you as friend on FB and comment on your status to fuel the fire if needs be, NO MORE MRS NICE from you from now on pleaseeeeeeee
Hi Brutallyhonest28,
Thank you for your words of support. And the hugs.
I'm not sure that I want to get into a slanging match with OW. She is really not worth my effort.
That was a slanging match with WS, not OW, hes the one calling you psycotic.
This is the rantings of an OW's fury - and I'll bet you anything that SHE is the one who wrote this, NOT your WS.
((((TM))))
I'm so sorry you are hurting.
But, please know that the only reason he wrote such an untrue, unkind letter like that was to try to clean up the ugly from their A. He'd never have written it if your exposure wasn't hurting their A.
People who are in affairs are addicted to them, same as a drug addict, and just as a drug addict will lie and steal to get their drugs so will someone in the midst of an A.
TM, I PROMISE you that every DECENT person who reads that email will see right through it! They will see what is honestly going on....what he is trying to do.
Those who aren't decent don't matter to you.
Please don't take what he said to heart. It is his addiction speaking. NOT REALITY.
This is the rantings of an OW's fury - and I'll bet you anything that SHE is the one who wrote this, NOT your WS.
I was thinking the same thing... Or at the very least she dictated the emails.
Ok time to really break this down, if it was done with WS knowledge then here is what i would say
This is WS. I write this "without prejudice" to my legal position in the eventual divorce proceedings.
...................................................
WITHOUT PREJUDICE? you got to be kidding me right, your not at all prejudiced to look good in front of OW friends, yeah right.
EVENTUAL divorve proceedings?? why are they so eventual as opposed to actually in progress?? Hummmm. no explanation there
-------------------------------------------------
I�m sending this in response to the e-mail that you may or may not have received this morning from my ex.
..................................................
WRONG try again! your not his ex till divorce your still legally married so think again
-----------------------------------------------------
I apologise to everyone being involved in a matter between me and my psychotic ex.
...................................................
WRONG WRONG AND WRONG AGAIN, this is wrong on so many levels dont even know where to start, 1)Apologise all you like but your still the one with OW involving her and her friends in your unresolved MESS, 2) Its no longer a matter between two people cause you keep involving women in your flipping marriage, 3)Yeah your wife is the psycotic one not the ugly POS sitting next to you getting you to write this and ignoring the fact your a SERIAL CHEATER. ok then if you say so! 4) your still legally married to your wife so no she aint your ex numpty.
-------------------------------------------------------
Yes, I was with her 22 years but during this time she treated me and my family badly. That�s why I left her.
..............................................
This one really takes the bisquit, she treated you badly yeah ok right, bull!! she supported your carreer by letting you go on assignments aborad that lasted forever and unlike you when you werent there to meet her EN's due to your job she didnt jump in the sack with the nearest person who does, she treated you so badly that when you came back from your assignment and told her you wanted to date other people she loved you enough to say yes, ummm didums my heart breaks for you and how badly your wife treated you (NOT). She is supporting you and loving you despite your obvious and repeated unfaithfullness flaws. No one will ever love you like that again because you dont have another GOOD 22 years to give anyone who is worth a damn, you now only attract scum because thats the level you are choosing to sink to.
----------------------------------------------------
As an error of judgment on my part, I agreed to go on holiday a while back with her as an school exam treat for her niece. This was promised a year ago in 2007 and I try to always keep promises. I did not have a great time.
.............................................
I ALWAYS KEEP MY PROMISES??? really what planet are you on?? marriage vowes mean anything to you?? i bet you promised OW that its over between you and your W so why you smooching her on the sofa while OW is upstairs unpacking in the london flat!
Could it be maybe just maybe that you didnt have a great time on the holiday because you were feeling like a low life for the horrid time you have given your wife, go look in the mirror, your the one with the problem pal!
---------------------------------------------------------
OW and I are in love and BS is trying to destroy this.
.............................................
Yeah ok your so in love that your threatened by an email and had to reply and justify this supposed love, how can you love someone and get them involved in your mess like this?? DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHAT LOVE IS?? my guess is NOT
--------------------------------------------------------
I am a cheater and I treated WS badly.
.......................................
FINALLY a truthful sentance, yes your a cheater and you have treated EVERYONE badly
-------------------------------------------------
I have apologised. BUT she treated me equally as bad over 22 years and she admits that. We have grown apart for last 10 years well before I met OW. When I left BS the intention was to set her free to find someone better than me.
..............................................
She treated you that badly that you cant give one example to show how this was, my guess is because your talking a load of S,,,,.
OHHH didums so you go and inflict yourself (whom you admit can be better) on OW and claim that you love her, why not go be on your own then and better yourself so you can be a fit enough human before inflicting yourself on another woman??
-------------------------------------------------
She chooses however to be vindictive and send nasty e-mails. This is an example of the nastiness she has shown my dear brother and wife. This nastiness is why we broke up not because of OW. OW is completely innocent in this.
BS knows this and can't acknowledge that we are over and its time to move on.
Again I am sorry for involving everyone
Blah Blah Blah get a brain of your own you numpty and start actually thinking for yourself, Yeah OW is as innocent as a mass murderer on death penalty, remind me who sent your wife a nasty email, oh wait it was OW. Remind me who is so insecure right now that is getting you to literally pee on 22 years of friendship and marriage, oh wait i think i know the answer, OW. Remind me who took you into their bed knowing you had a wife, once again easy to guess OW. Need i carry on?
Im so mad on your behalf TM that if he was here thats what i would say to him and her demented friend who sent you that email.
arghhhhhhhhhh
This is the rantings of an OW's fury - and I'll bet you anything that SHE is the one who wrote this, NOT your WS.
I was thinking the same thing... Or at the very least she dictated the emails.
Thankyou KaylaAndy and Marshmallow. They may have discussed the content but the words do sound like WS.
I am at my wit's end now. I think I will lie low for a while. He does effectively say in his reply that I am too good for him, so maybe he is right and I should move on to find someone I do deserve. I will give it some thought.
You are wayyyyy too good for him but thats no consolation when your in love with him hun.
When you eventually get over him whenever and if that ever happens please give him a big kick in the gonads from me.
I think BH broke down WS email about as well as Schoolbus would have!
is that a good thing or a bad thing OH??
is that a good thing or a bad thing OH??
Schoolbus rocks! And so do you!
thanks im so angry with this wayward there is no excuse for his stupid behaviour, TM is such a lovely person that i almost feel sorry for him for missing out on spending the rest of his life with her, the only excuse i can think up for his behaviour is that he must have been dropped on his head as a baby and even then i would question why such an injury took so long to manifest itself.
TM hold your head up high he is someone elses problem now.
thanks im so angry with this wayward there is no excuse for his stupid behaviour, TM is such a lovely person that i almost feel sorry for him for missing out on spending the rest of his life with her, the only excuse i can think up for his behaviour is that he must have been dropped on his head as a baby and even then i would question why such an injury took so long to manifest itself.
TM hold your head up high he is someone elses problem now.
The thing is, TM's WH is following the same script as every other wayward whose A has been exposed.
"My BS is crazy." "Our M is over." "OP and I are in love." "BS didn't treat me right."
same same
This is normal behavior for a wayward.
TM, this A WILL end. The only question is whether or not you want to wait it out or not.
Now might be a good time to work on your PBL.
I was just thinking that, Marshmallow. It might be looking like time for Plan B.
UM,
Marsh and Kayla are completely right onthis one.....I thought the VERY same thing. OW had a major hand in that email, no matter what. You've made there A look exactly what it is.....trash. Don't play into it....and yes he is playing the wayward script to a T,
Keep holding that pretty little head of yours high, stick that chest out and don't let this get you down...(((TM))). And I also agree you should be thinking of Plan B.......
Not2fun
TM, my EW called me psychotic all while trying to get OM to kill me.
They have cheerleading toxic friends working against you, they are feeding off the drama.
Time for plan B, however he will take it as you gave up and are accepting the affair.
You REALLY need some sort of Legal Separation Agreement where YOU get spousal support.
THAT will irritate OW to no end.
Here's what I would put on my own FB:
lol, you wouldn't believe what lies my cheating husband and his skank-ho wrote about me, in their pathetic attempt to make their adulterous affair look legitimate.
One of OW's friends sent me a copy of an e-mail WS sent to OW's friends:
Quite likely it was a horrible pack of lies. But then, that's what WS's do - they lie. They cheat. They deceive.
The question is though, having seen his message, do you still want that WS back in your life?
Hi All,
I am crying as I write this. Thank you so much for your support.
Thank you BH for your breakdown of his letter.
I am really going to think long and hard about my future.
We don't have legal separation in the UK and I don't think I could claim spousal support because I really don't need it.
I will post any more responses from either of them, obviously but for now I am going to do some Christmas shopping. At least I have one less present to think about this year!
Thanks, TM
IMO, the only way he will decide he wants you, is if you don't want him.
Go ahead and separate. Take the steps. I think you'll be surprised, that suddenly you're a lot more attractive.
You can always call off the separation. But if you don't show him you love and respect yourself, why would he?
IMO, the only way he will decide he wants you, is if you don't want him.
Go ahead and separate. Take the steps. I think you'll be surprised, that suddenly you're a lot more attractive.
You can always call off the separation. But if you don't show him you love and respect yourself, why would he?
My timeline I am giving myself is the end of January. I will re-assess the situation then and if I still feel like I do today, then I will start proceedings.
Just remember the WS(and the OW) keep telling themselves these types of lies and do the marital rewrite to feel justified in the A. They have to do this to feel better about what they are doing.
Even tho you know that email was rubbish, it still must have really hurt. (((((TM))))))
Fascinating, this one. The fact here is that this one appears to me that it not only was not written by your WS, but indeed had no male voice involved. Furthermore, it does appear to have at least two female voices involved. Your OW appears to have asked a friend for help. Look at her emails in your first example in the first post you made in this thread, then look at this one. They are not the same voice - but in some cases the first one does "bleed" into this one. She asked someone to help her here, someone she considers "smarter", because she doesn't want to mess up his divorce proceedings with her injecting the email as his words.
He IS aware of what she has done. I'm not so sure he will be happy when he actually reads it, however, given his most recent interaction with you, from what you posted directly before this email cropped up. My best analysis is that this email is a direct shot at you BECAUSE HE TOLD HER WHAT YOU AND HE TALKED ABOUT. She had to fire back at you, because you are threatening their relationship. He is fence-sitting, and she sees it.
In the very first email she sent you, she spoke of the fact that he spends all of his time with her......that spoke volumes to me. Not because of the idea that he spends time with her - but because he HAS TO. She makes it that way because she does not trust him - she knows she MUST be with him in his spare time, to keep him close, because he is NOT "with" her in the sense that he needs to be...he is already "wandering". She senses this. Her email to you spoke to that loudly, and without going into an analysis you can be sure that this is likely true. She is not secure in her relationship with him. There is not a great deal of trust there, so she speaks loud and long about that "trust" in order to make herself believe that there actually IS trust there.
-what OW wishes to believe, she says louder and more often
-- OW's style of writing in her emails tends to reveal this about her
Now, to a quick analysis of what she and her friend have written to you. IF your WS had anything to do with this, it would absolutely shock me.
This is WS. I write this "without prejudice" to my legal position in the eventual divorce proceedings.
No man about to divorce would do this in his right mind. Not one.
I�m sending this in response to the e-mail that you may or may not have received this morning from my ex. IF this was your WS, he would have perfect knowledge of his audience. He would address it to the people he absolutely wanted to know this information, and not the entire general population, as this paragraph does. This paragraph is a wide-array address, with the intent to broadly scatter the damage.
I apologise to everyone being involved in a matter between me and my psychotic ex. NOT an apology, but an opening volley against you. Also, an absolutely opposite statement against what it purports to be: the statement notes it is a matter between a man and wife, yet addressed broadly to a huge number of people. Were it truly what it is stated to be, it would not be publshed as it is.
Yes, I was with her 22 years but during this time she treated me and my family badly. That�s why I left her. IF the author were the WS, this would not be stated as simply. A single-purposed "I left because she treated me badly" is notably a simple reason at this juncture in the relationship for leaving. Anyone involved in the relationship would KNOW this - that the reasons are much more complicated, more difficult to state, and certainly not identifiable as ONE SIMPLE REASON.
As an error of judgment on my part, I agreed to go on holiday a while back with her as an school exam treat for her niece. This was promised a year ago in 2007 and I try to always keep promises. This really interests me. A statement made in defense of the WS, right here in the middle of the body of the letter. Right here... Third thought.....THIRD......hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm And I wonder why it is RIGHT HERE. Why would this be right here? I mean, who really cares why he went, what the reasoning was....really? Except...his "girlfriend" and his WIFE? I did not have a great time. Is this what they are fighting about? Hmmmmmm. I wonder if she is worried about what kind of time he had on that trip?
OW and I are in love and BS is trying to destroy this. Gee. She has at least HALF of this RIGHT.
I am a cheater and I treated WS badly. At least the author of the letter has this right. Also, the author of the letter is guilty of this statement, on her own behalf. And, I wonder why this is here, right here. A very odd change of tune. It is like someone stepped in right here and said, "wait, we have to make this letter about - him - so that it looks right."
I have apologised. BUT she treated me equally as bad over 22 years and she admits that. We have grown apart for last 10 years well before I met OW. When I left BS the intention was to set her free to find someone better than me DO YOU SEE THAT WORD 'BUT' IN THERE????? Doesn't that take the apology away? "I said I was sorry BUT SHE WAS BAD TOO." Sort of cancels the whole thing out, doesn't it. Makes it just not count, the bad thing I did, because she was bad too, so don't look at me...she is a terrible person...look at her....OH, and BESIDES, I actually LEFT HER so SHE COULD BE HAPPY. Aren't I the beneficent one?
The paragraph here is again defensive of the WS, but in a very odd way. The letter very quickly turned - again - back to stabbing the BS. They lost track very quickly, didn't they?
She chooses however to be vindictive and send nasty e-mails. This is an example of the nastiness she has shown my dear brother and wife. This nastiness is why we broke up not because of OW. OW is completely innocent in this. Some interesting words here. "my DEAR brother" brings my eye there. This couches the brother as some sort of extremely innocent bystander in the situation, as someone on a pedestal. Odd phrasing for a man to use, ESPECIALLY about ANOTHER MAN. Just very odd. Secondly, the extreme "completely innocent" for the standing of the OW. This is something people use for themselves, not generally for others - especially those complicit in a crime with them, although in the case of affairs we do see it. In this case, however, the stench of OW is too strong over this, and I just smell OW standing at least over the keyboard on this one. IF the WS wrote this, OW was THERE.
BS knows this and can't acknowledge that we are over and its time to move on.
Again I am sorry for involving everyone An oddly abrupt ending. This feels interrupted. Or....caught?
WS
The other thought that comes to mind on the previous letter -
IF, AND I AM SAYING IF IF IF IF
the WS wrote that email, the OW dictated it.
Period.
And the ending?
He just gave up. That would be the ONLY WAY it would make any sense to me. He gave up, and emailed it....without anything.
And that last line would make sense in that regard.
He really would be sorry for involving everyone.
That would possibly make sense for two voices. For one being smarter. For the strange mix of sentences.
And for the VERY ODD ENDING.
IF this is the case, my advice?
Go right now to Plan B. Go fast, go very very very dark, and let this affair go right off the deep end. Because if this woman is as controlling as to have him write down exactly what she wants him to say in an email like this, then the relationship will NOT LAST LONG. If he is the kind of guy who runs off and cheats, has a wandering eye, then he will not last under the eyes of a woman who has to control his every single move.
It will not take long before he breaks the chains.
Just be very sure you want him back. Be sure he has a plan to be faithful.
SB
Oher thought.. update FB status saying "lovely letter LOL thanks for dictating it to WS he would never have thought of those things all on his own lol"
I guarantee ws will ring you within 5 mins of her reading your status update! or atleast she will fight with him about ringing you. Lets see him say those things to you directly!! my guess is he wont be able too as not his own though.
Even better if you manage to ignore his call for as long as possible, lets see WS squirm until he can "set you straight" and how many days of her whining about this will he be able to tollerate.
I agree w/ Schoolbus. I think Plan B sooner rather than later. OW sounds like a controlling beyottch and the sooner you are out of the picture fulfilling ENs, the sooner the entire affair will implode.
Just wanted to say that I got the same sense about this OW as Schoolbus did. She went out of her way not only to mention the time they spend together, but also how she "tries" to get him to go out w/o her. She is trying to reassure herself that he will not stray w/ her. And she will do everything she can to keep him on a short leash.
But, your WH isn't the type of man who will be kept under the thumb of a woman...at least not for long.
I don't think you ought to wait in limbo to decide to file. I think you ought to go to Plan B. WH may have enjoyed his A's, but he always had you meeting his ENs and had the comfort of knowing you were at home waiting for him when he was finished w/ these trashy women. If you write him a PBL and then go very dark, he will be shocked. Being w/ OW 24/7 w/o a TM fix will get very old very quickly.
Plan B is perfect for you b/c it will remove yourself from all the drama and PAIN. It will give you a chance to really think through things, and figure out what you want.
At the end he repeated that he was just calling to see how I was.
Yup, AND to find out if you are finished exposing.
I just wanted to add, that I think you are very brave to step so far out of your comfort zone and expose at all. It is clear that you are a very nice person, who would rather not confront anyone. Just know that we are trying to nudge you further b/c we know that exposure is your greatest weapon in destroying this A.
Thank you Marshmallow,
I have a couple of more cards to play on this. I am reluctant to say more at this stage because WS knows of MB and whilst I don't think he has the time or inclination to read here, you never know.
The other thought that comes to mind on the previous letter -
IF, AND I AM SAYING IF IF IF IF
the WS wrote that email, the OW dictated it.
Period.
And the ending?
He just gave up. That would be the ONLY WAY it would make any sense to me. He gave up, and emailed it....without anything.
And that last line would make sense in that regard.
He really would be sorry for involving everyone.
That would possibly make sense for two voices. For one being smarter. For the strange mix of sentences.
And for the VERY ODD ENDING.
IF this is the case, my advice?
Go right now to Plan B. Go fast, go very very very dark, and let this affair go right off the deep end. Because if this woman is as controlling as to have him write down exactly what she wants him to say in an email like this, then the relationship will NOT LAST LONG. If he is the kind of guy who runs off and cheats, has a wandering eye, then he will not last under the eyes of a woman who has to control his every single move.
It will not take long before he breaks the chains.
Just be very sure you want him back. Be sure he has a plan to be faithful.
SB
Welcome back Schoolbus!
Thank you for your interpretation. I have a feeling that OW asked/told WS to write the e-mail and WS may then have insisted on apology e-mail to me. The fact that he writes "this is WS", suggests that he has used OW FB login, which isn't necessary. Maybe he was at work and he agreed to it being sent by her but had minimal input himself.
The "without prejudice" phrase, I feel was written by WS. He's weird like that. At the start of all this, before MB, I typed up a document which I stated was not legally binding. It was to be for myself only to say that I had his permission to date if I wanted to because the status of our marriage was "separated". WS refused to sign it because he didn't know if it would be legal.
WS would also completely understand the significance of the BUT after the apology so it could have been deliberate by him, thinking no-one else would notice.
You are right about the use of "dear brother". That is not him at all. It's funny, I would never have spotted that if you hadn't pointed it out.
She is very domineering. I saw that trait in her straight off. And she is obviously quite aggressive. WS is very non-confrontational and may not like all the drama that comes with her.
TM
Just wanted to say that I got the same sense about this OW as Schoolbus did. She went out of her way not only to mention the time they spend together, but also how she "tries" to get him to go out w/o her. She is trying to reassure herself that he will not stray w/ her. And she will do everything she can to keep him on a short leash.
But, your WH isn't the type of man who will be kept under the thumb of a woman...at least not for long.
I don't think you ought to wait in limbo to decide to file. I think you ought to go to Plan B. WH may have enjoyed his A's, but he always had you meeting his ENs and had the comfort of knowing you were at home waiting for him when he was finished w/ these trashy women. If you write him a PBL and then go very dark, he will be shocked. Being w/ OW 24/7 w/o a TM fix will get very old very quickly.
Plan B is perfect for you b/c it will remove yourself from all the drama and PAIN. It will give you a chance to really think through things, and figure out what you want.
Thanks, Marshmallow.
No, WS was never under the thumb with me. We were our own people and that's probably why we lasted so long.
I honestly don't know what EN's I could be meeting for him these past 10 months. I am definately going to step back from things. You are right. I need a break from all the drama. However, Steve said Plan B would not work so I am just going to lie low for a while and then throw him some TM serenity now and then, when I feel like doing it so that he doesn't forget what he is leaving behind.
TM
Your sister and Melody Lane are both right.
Exposure has brought them closer together, in the same way as if you toppled two buildings towards each other, and they caught, holding each other up. There they are, tipped closer together than ever, but the foundation is shattered.
Since they're watching your FB, I think it's fine to put messages on there, but never blatant ones. Happy, upbeat, about YOU, and never a hint of them. Just YOU YOU YOU and all the happy, fun things you're doing.
However, I do think it would be fine to mark off any days important to the M, such as anniversaries or other important dates. Still in an upbeat way, though. "Can't believe it's been X number of years now since [whatever] happened - wow! Time sure flies..."
My vote would be for Plan B too, but will concede myself trumped by Steve.
And Schoolbus hits another one out of the park!!!!!!!!!
Hey TM thought i would copy this reply i gave from my thread into yours so everyone can catch up.
Thanks for clarifying things TM, i dont know why i got the impression that you dont want to live in USA. My mistake.
how about this fair resolution.
Contact WS by email tell him that you were hurt by the email that was sent to by him and OW tell him that if he really wants you to accept marriage is over and he no longer wants you (and that its not just a temporary phase due to OW) then he has to do one last thing for you out of respect for your 22 years of marriage, ask him if he is so sure its over then he wont mind doing the follwing for your sake
Ask WS to contact Steve for one coaching session, ask him to do this without OW present (and even if she was Steve can handle her). If at the end of the session he is still absolutely sure that he is doing the right thing and no longer wants to be in a M with you then you will accept that and not get in his way anymore. you will set him free to make his own mistakes and you will start divorce proceedings to show him that you mean that.
worst case scenario he wants to stay with OW and you can move on. If not effective there is nothing to say you have to keep your promise to him but at the same time you are closer to getting an answer and just think of what position your putting OW in, she has to agree to your WS doing this in order to get rid of you, if he wont agree then there will be arguments between them etc.
what do you think?? is this even plausable solution??
Your sister and Melody Lane are both right.
Exposure has brought them closer together, in the same way as if you toppled two buildings towards each other, and they caught, holding each other up. There they are, tipped closer together than ever, but the foundation is shattered.
Since they're watching your FB, I think it's fine to put messages on there, but never blatant ones. Happy, upbeat, about YOU, and never a hint of them. Just YOU YOU YOU and all the happy, fun things you're doing.
However, I do think it would be fine to mark off any days important to the M, such as anniversaries or other important dates. Still in an upbeat way, though. "Can't believe it's been X number of years now since [whatever] happened - wow! Time sure flies..."
My vote would be for Plan B too, but will concede myself trumped by Steve.
Hi Neak,
Thanks for the building analogy. This makes perfect sense. If OW has less friends willing to go out with them as a couple, they may be forced to spend more time just the two of them. WS may then get bored with OW because I think a strong draw to her is the RC need that is met by her friends. WS and OW don't seem to have a great deal in common.
I don't know if they are looking at my FB status. I never put anything on there about me. However, I do change my Yahoo status every day, more than once, depending upon what I am doing.
I think a cloudy Plan B may be the way to go for me.
Hi BH,
Yes, I really like this idea. WS did speak to Steve back in July but he wasn't impressed. He said he thought we were a cult and that it was a load of rubbish.
Three months later WS conceded that he did think MB concepts work, if both parties believed it would. For me, this was a big step in WS thinking and so a session with Steve may be more productive now, than it was before.
Thanks,
TM
BH, while your idea might work in some cases, in this one where the A is already so doomed, time is the best weapon after exposure. To hang it all on one phone call to Steve rushes the timeline a bit, when if she only hangs on a while longer, this is likely to end on its own.
The main key here is protecting her, and strategizing how to do that while still working within SH's recommendations about Plan B.
TM, it might be time to start changing your status on FB once in a while. It makes you appear active and happenin'.
Neak i agree totally that the key for TM is protecting herself, but how long does she wait for WS to wake up? this latest OW is one at the end of a string of OWomen, the relationship WILL go to pot eventually but does that really help TM?? Do you guys really think that the only problem here is this particular OW?? Ws started Wayward thinking way before this OW appeared on the scene, he is learning that relationships are disposible and i have no doubt that he will jump from this OW into onother A and then again another, is TM expected to put her heart on hold in the hope that this man wakes up without any help? the more OW he goes through the less likely he is to come back or am i wrong on this point and the more OW he sees the more likely he will want the peace and quiet he had at home. But then he wont be getting that if he comes home will he, in order to move on for both their sakes he will need to work hard on M. As far as i am concerned Steve is the expert on A and good at dealing with WSes so how can you we appear not to trust him and his years of experience. Im speacking as someone who is currently trusting the future of her M with Steve although my situation is less complicated i am still putting my hopes in the hands of someone who is an expert and accept if he cant fix it there is no way forward for my sake or my familys. Call me stupid if you want to but either way i will have a way forward by a set time and thats is in my book protecting myself.
Wayward behaviour aside I truly feel sorry for this man, i really do, he is stuck in a situation he knows is not good for him yet hasnt got a visible lifeline that he can see. Go back to W and work his nuts off at making up for what he did (and im not saying for one moment thats what TM has said to him its the reality facing him and he is aware of this), go at it alone and have to face his problems on his own, or bury his head in the sand by frittering his time between meaningless women? tough choice. One good conversation can wake someone up and if anyone can do it, it is the Harly family.
BH, while your idea might work in some cases, in this one where the A is already so doomed, time is the best weapon after exposure. To hang it all on one phone call to Steve rushes the timeline a bit, when if she only hangs on a while longer, this is likely to end on its own.
The main key here is protecting her, and strategizing how to do that while still working within SH's recommendations about Plan B.
TM, it might be time to start changing your status on FB once in a while. It makes you appear active and happenin'.
Hi Neak,
I am really loving your optimism re the affair. Maybe a request for a call to Steve could be done in January if there is no progress by then.
Yes, you are right. OW uses FB a lot and her insecurity may make her curious as to what I am up to. Only WS can see my Yahoo status. I will put something hip and happening up there now.
Thanks,
TM
How long does she wait? A while longer won't hurt, especially since she is getting professional counseling from SH. An ultimatum, given at a point where she is strong enough to hold out a while longer, could end up doing more harm than good.
TM isn't dealing with your garden-variety affair here...it's much more serious than that. Busting up the A is the easiest part, and I'm very confident she will get that far.
What is going to be hard is in thinking about R, how high to set the bar, him addressing his serial cheating issues before she even considers taking him back, and whether she will want the man he becomes when the A is over.
Serial adultery is so much more difficult to overcome, and the odds aren't as overwhelming favorable, even with MB methods. However it still happens, so I think there is sufficient reason for TM to hold out hope of R for as long as she wants to. As long as she protects herself from his venom, that can be a long time without excessive damage to her.
Honestly, you sound defensive, though I can hear the pain and frustration underlying that. I'm not intending any criticism of you in what I've said, and certainly would not imply that you are stupid. Nor am I implying any distrust of Steve - rather I am deferring what would be my usual advice in a situation like this, to what he has recommended. I've felt the same feelings of pain and desperation, and understand why you feel the way you do.
It's not a lack of trust in Steve that makes me reluctant to pin everything on a single counseling session with him. Rather, for that to work, the WS has to be in exactly the right place, where at least a small part of them might be receptive. To take a WS still totally in the throes of the A, what is left of their brain flooded with evil dopamines, and give them once chance to talk to SH and start the process of R or you proceed with divorce, is to invite failure. That isn't any reflection on Steve, but just the nature of affairs. Once in a while it might work, but IMO is usually too chancy.
If the A is still going on at a time when TM has exhausted nearly all hope, and her LB is running dry, that could be a time to consider it. For now, I think she can afford the luxury of being patient, at SH's advice.
I don't know anything about your sitch, but I do agree that SH represents your best chance of saving your M. MB is such a Godsend, and we are all blessed to be here.
{{{{{{{{TM & BH}}}}}}}}}} God is working for you.
I am really loving your optimism re the affair. Maybe a request for a call to Steve could be done in January if there is no progress by then.
I think this is good to have for a goal. Be sure you give yourself permission to move your timetable up if you need to, or stretch it out a little (but not much) if it seems to be called for.
How well I remember planning my Plan B for a particular day, pacing myself for that, and then a day or two short snapped and knew I couldn't even have one more nice interaction with him. (Pretty sure him having to pry my fingers off his neck would count as a Love Buster.) Boy did I have to hustle, but my PB was ready that evening. Whew!
Re-evaluate as often as you need to, but that sounds good.
Hi Neak and BH28,
I really appreciate both your inputs in my situation and can't express enough how everyone's support at MB this week has really carried me through.
I just want to say one thing regarding WS before I am off to bed. WS has had a lot of ONSs but this is the first EA. I am so sure of this because of his behaviour change. It was so noticable. Plus there was no real opportunity for a full blown EA/PA in the UK. So I think breaking up this affair may make him go out on the pull again but may not lead to another OW. As soon as he breaks up with OW, I will probably call Steve again for advice.
G'night.
TM
I have a couple of more cards to play on this. I am reluctant to say more at this stage because WS knows of MB and whilst I don't think he has the time or inclination to read here, you never know.
If he's not reading here. OW is.
Count on it.
Very glad to hear SH is coaching you.
This advice is spot, and I don't mean the dog, SPOT ON. <<SB and Neak, MM and Brute>>
TM, you only need to decide about how high the bar should be set for your WH return. If you want that at all.
This A is not going to last. OW is an childish control freak, and your WH will not tolerate forever.
Let him spend the holidays with this AP. DARK PB. This A will not last, he will come sniffing around. bah humbug!
Do a dark, dark -- DARK PB.
Post FB and YAHOO every day about new things you are learning and doing. How you are making new traditions,(yoga? tofu turkey?) and keeping strong hold on cherished ones.
Everything that makes you special, kick it up a notch. I'd be like Martha Stewart on crack!
In the end, it can only lead to positive outcomes for you.
If you are not doing new things,--find some.
This advice is spot, and I don't mean the dog, SPOT ON. <<SB and Neak, MM and Brute>>
TM, you only need to decide about how high the bar should be set for your WH return. If you want that at all.
This A is not going to last. OW is an childish control freak, and your WH will not tolerate forever.
Let him spend the holidays with this AP. DARK PB. This A will not last, he will come sniffing around. bah humbug!
Do a dark, dark -- DARK PB.
Post FB and YAHOO every day about new things you are learning and doing. How you are making new traditions,(yoga? tofu turkey?) and keeping strong hold on cherished ones.
Everything that makes you special, kick it up a notch. I'd be like Martha Stewart on crack!
In the end, it can only lead to positive outcomes for you.
If you are not doing new things,--find some.
Thanks for the encouragement, Barbiecat
I am leading a very active life at the moment. I've done a few new things that I didn't when WS was around. And keeping up with all the old ones too. The silly thing is that we are so alike, I know that WS would enjoy them too. For example, I went to a poker tournament organised by the people from work. I read up on the strategy and came away with an 80% return! WS really enjoys poker because of the reading people side of it and frequently goes to Las Vegas with OW. Grrr.
I've also been to concerts by bands that WS and I both like. And the movies I see are all WS taste as well. We used to love going to the movies but I know he doesn't go any more. He says that there are other things to do. I've also hooked up with old friends of both of ours and now see them regularly for dancing or just pub quizes etc. I let him know all that I am doing.
I am exhausted! This is why it is so frustrating for me because I know that we are quite possibly the most compatible couple on earth. He's not into the yoga and I'm not so much into the kick boxing (although we did use to spar/train together and I enjoyed the quality time with him) but aside from that, we liked all the same things.
Sigh! Now I am reminiscing. I must get back to work.
TM
((TM))
I think you'll definitely need Plan B if you are to preserve any love of WS. He's being a real turd right now.
So, regarding "dear brother and his family," what's the situation there? Are they supportive of his A? And the rest of his family? Do they know they're "vouching" for his A right now?
((TM))
I think you'll definitely need Plan B if you are to preserve any love of WS. He's being a real turd right now.
So, regarding "dear brother and his family," what's the situation there? Are they supportive of his A? And the rest of his family? Do they know they're "vouching" for his A right now?
Unfortunately, most people on WS side of the family and friends have validated his choices by meeting with OW and going out with them as a couple. My one consolation in all this is that if WS decides not to reconcile, at least I won't have to deal with his ridiculous brothers and SILs any more.
TM
P.S. Thanks for the hugs.
TM,
You might want to consider changing the title of this thread, and even your nic. You don't want to make it easy for either of them to find this thread, provided they haven't already.
TM,
Glad that Schoolbus stopped by and interpreted WS email. When I got emails from XH, I never realized what influence that OW had till schoolbus showed me line by line what OW wrote versus XH.
Now I can tell when OW makes her mark on most of the correspondence.
I agree with the others. Go very very dark Plan B. dark dark dark. It will keep you safe and probably make them both crazy wondering where you went!
Hi hope3343,
Yes, I am very grateful for Schoolbus's input on my thread. What she wrote made a lot of sense.
I am reluctant to go dark Plan B because it goes against the advice Steve gave me. However, I feel that backing off a little may get some results, just from WS past actions.
For example, last Monday he slammed the phone down saying he didn't know if he was going to speak to me again. By Thursday he was phoning me and we spoke Friday. He said he was concerned for me because I hadn't been online or answering my phone but he wanted to know a) how I chose the original 3 people - it really intrigues him; b) whether I am going to e-mail more and c) who I am going out with.
Yesterday, I IM'd him to ask advice on a situation with my niece. He replied promptly and we went back and forth a bit. This is what I don't understand. If I had a "psychotic ex" that I wanted to finish with, I wouldn't be phoning them and I would definately be ignoring their IM's. And this is why I think Steve is correct in saying that I have to keep the connection with WS because he seems unwilling to let go as well.
How long ago did Steve tell you that? Did he tell you how long to stay that way?
He told me at the end of September.
Steve was always very concerned that I was ok and that I have a support network. He said I should stay that way as long as I am strong enough to handle it.
Ok, I think that you were all right when you said that I didn't get her parents. I definately got her birth mother because WS told me.
But I was reading her FB comments regarding her adopted mother having an operation and someone commented give my regards to M, which is not the first name of either person that I contacted. So I did an Intellius search on OW name and it came back with different results than before, this time with a woman M and OW son as relatives so I'm thinking that M is her adopted mother.
Now,I said I wasn't planning to e-mail any more but I have a phone number. This woman is elderly and has just had an operation (albeit on her shoulder) so I don't want to say anything which will greatly upset her.
I will need to establish that I am talking to the right person but then I would just like to say a couple of sentences to summarise the situation in a way which won't be too distressing for her. Also, I need her to believe me and not her daughter, which will be a hard task.
Can anyone give me some phrases that will help me get my message across?
Thanks,
TM
How about...
"Since you adopted *scag* I'm guessing you hoped to show her much love and model good moral behavior. I just wanted to let you know that your daughter is now a homewrecker, and has been sleeping with my H. We have been together 22 years, and she has shown no respect for marital vows. I'm reaching out to you because I hope she respects your opinion and I'm hoping you'll agree that adultery is a sin."
And don't worry about the "elderly" and "operation" thing.
Ha ha - I actually saw a photo of her on "scag"'s Myspace page. She looked like she was on her last legs.
((TM))
I think you'll definitely need Plan B if you are to preserve any love of WS. He's being a real turd right now.
So, regarding "dear brother and his family," what's the situation there? Are they supportive of his A? And the rest of his family? Do they know they're "vouching" for his A right now?
Ha ha ha,...Ima said "turd"....Ha ha ha :teef:
Okay, sorry, but that just made me laugh....
((TM))
I think you'll definitely need Plan B if you are to preserve any love of WS. He's being a real turd right now.
So, regarding "dear brother and his family," what's the situation there? Are they supportive of his A? And the rest of his family? Do they know they're "vouching" for his A right now?
Ha ha ha,...Ima said "turd"....Ha ha ha :teef:
Okay, sorry, but that just made me laugh....
Isn't it great that we have retained our senses of humour in all this?
TM,
Look at it from this perspective : If my daughter was committing adultery I would WANT to know - I would be GRATEFUL that someone told me so that I could do everything in my power to SAVE my daugther from herself! I would never want her to be a homewrecker! Be assumptive with this...Approach it from a standpoint of knowing that a parent wants the best for their child - let the woman feel like you are on her side - that you know she cares deeply for her daughter and wouldn't want her on such a destructive path...Treat her like your ally...I think that would be the most fruitful approach...
Mrs. W
I would certainly want to know if my son was committing adultery. I CARE about my son and I would want to help him get his mind right by horse whipping him on the front lawn. If my son was acting in such a trashy and self destructive way I would appreciate knowing so I could help him.
Even if a parent doesn't care about his/her child and doesn't want to get involved, it still creates great pressure on the affair when the OP/WS has to explain his adultery to his parents.
TM, I thought you did this last week?? Why are you still talking about this a week later?
TM,
Look at it from this perspective : If my daughter was committing adultery I would WANT to know - I would be GRATEFUL that someone told me so that I could do everything in my power to SAVE my daugther from herself! I would never want her to be a homewrecker! Be assumptive with this...Approach it from a standpoint of knowing that a parent wants the best for their child - let the woman feel like you are on her side - that you know she cares deeply for her daughter and wouldn't want her on such a destructive path...Treat her like your ally...I think that would be the most fruitful approach...
Mrs. W
Thanks Mrs W. Yes, this makes sense that I should put myself in OW mother's shoes. It is only me being hurt now, but later it will be OW as well.
I had a good letter that I sent OW mother, cant find it right now...but I am trying to remember it...
I remember saying somethin like that WH is a lost soul right now but I wanted to try to keep my family together and DS and I love him, we have a DS who is six and needs his dad at home...Our M wasnt perfect, but whos is...It has its problems...Ummm If you have any influence over your daughter please try to dissuade her from making the decision to stay with a married man with a family...So I can have a chance at mending my family...Because while your DD continues seeing him I have no chance.
Divorces are very hard on families and the future would be, Child custody battles, court dates etc...I dont want that for my family...Something like that, I am gonna keep looking for it, the wording was a little better...but see if this helps at all...
I had a good letter that I sent OW mother, cant find it right now...but I am trying to remember it...
I remember saying somethin like that WH is a lost soul right now but I wanted to try to keep my family together and DS and I love him, we have a DS who is six and needs his dad at home...Our M wasnt perfect, but whos is...It has its problems...Ummm If you have any influence over your daughter please try to dissuade her from making the decision to stay with a married man with a family...So I can have a chance at mending my family...Because while your DD continues seeing him I have no chance.
Divorces are very hard on families and the future would be, Child custody battles, court dates etc...I dont want that for my family...Something like that, I am gonna keep looking for it, the wording was a little better...but see if this helps at all...
Thanks stillhere8126,
We don't have children of our own but I don't think that means we don't have a family. There are plenty of nieces and nephews here that miss WS. I'd like to see your letter if you find it.
Do you think a handwritten letter would be more effective?
TM
Oh, sorry TM about the children thing...but yes you do have a family and you can reword it to fit your sitch.....I typed mine but really I do think handwritten might be better.....
For an older person, yes!
Maybe even include a snapshot of you and WH doing something "family-like" together with the neice or a pet?
Yes that is a great idea, imanotherone....and damn if I cant find a copy of that stupid letter...
Maybe even include a snapshot of you and WH doing something "family-like" together with the neice or a pet?
Ooh- I like! The problem I have is that, unlike OW, I was never insecure in my relationship (stupid me) so I didn't take hundreds of photos of the two of us in order to make it more real. But I will have a good hunt around tonight.
Ask your family--usually relatives with kids take lots of pics..
Thanks Mrs W. Yes, this makes sense that I should put myself in OW mother's shoes. It is only me being hurt now, but later it will be OW as well.
Well, right, not that you need to give a rat's patootie about OW's "hurt" right now - and never forget that this is hurt that waywards bring upon themselves...However, I do think people forget that waywards are awash in a sea of sickness - soul sickness...I am positive that being wayward leads straight to death - both spiritual and physical...That is why exposure is such a noble thing - I know it's terribly hard for some people, but I think it helps to understand that you are absolutely helping someone by doing all that you can to get them off the road to hell...I've no doubt that that is exactly where waywardness leads...
Mrs. W
Mel, TM just found out that she exposed to the OW's birth mother before. Now she has gotten the adoptive mother's info, and is working on an exposure to her, too.
TM, even if you have to pay $15 for an intelius search, an exposure in writing would be really good. A phone call would be ok, but a letter you can read and reread, giving the same words longer to sink in. You can give her your number and offer to let her call if she has any questions.
Hi Neak,
Actually, the intellius report with the address is only $1.95!
I am going to search through my photos tonight to find some of WS and me and the girls that I can enclose. If I send it tomorrow it will be with OW mum by Tuesday next week.
Threads are merged, Travel Monkey..
TM,
If I had great advice for you I would be making the money the Harley's do counseling and saving money. It seems to me that you have decisions to make. It also seems to me that your H is avoiding making the decisions so that he doesn't have to face the pain of making the hurts you. A little late for that in my book.
You say you have plans for the future. I say stick with them absent any new data. I think your H is in a MLC, but you can do nothing about it. I think the OW your H is with is a low-life and her emails certainly indicate that she is. I think your H will live to regret his lack of moral character, but it may take decades for that to happen.
I notice there are no children associated with this marriage, thus I would tell you to step back. Plan B works but in your situation it really doesn't make any difference since you don't see him anyway. You won't take him back until a variety of things change and you can tell him that if he asks what it will take. He knows the OW has to go.
So my suggestion is to step back, lead your life, find joy in your friends, family and work. And when you decide to change your status, do so because you see better things in the future. They are out there, you just have to quit fearing what you don't know.
This is about you, your growth, your embracing your attributes and the good things in your life. Do that, don't spend any more time worrying about him. He is deep in the fog, he may be deep in a MLC, he may just truly and completely be out of love with you and unwilling to do what he vowed: to be loving toward you.
When you do interact with him, no love busters, be kind, be smiling, be gentle, and be firm in where you stand on life and your relationship with him.
That is all I can tell you to do other than look at the data, collect new data and make your decisions based on the data that is there.
God Bless,
JL
Hi Just Learning,
Thank you for taking the time to read my thread. I am definately trying to find joy in my life now. I have re-connected with old friends and for the first time in 39 years, will be spending Christmas with one of my sisters. There is so much positive to have come out of all this. I am certainly happier within myself than I was a year ago.
However, if WS asked to come back today, showed true remorse and agreed to the long list of conditions I have, then I have no doubt that I would take him back.
I have taken a step back and haven't contact him for days. I am wondering whether he will notice.
I miss not having someone to care about and who I know cares about me. My fear is that I will miss opportunities to make new friends because I am married and don't want to make any mistakes. And that is why I don't want to drag this out for much longer because I don't know how long it will take WS to wake up to what he is losing. I read Queenie's story and am amazed at her strength and patience. I thought I had it too but I don't and I just want things to move from this stalemate now.
Thank you
TM
Hi All,
I need some advice / opinions.
Exposure to all and sundry doesn't seem to have made a blind bit of difference (but who knows from this side of the mountain). He did cancel his New Year trip with OW back to UK and went to Vegas instead. I suspect this threw family plans amok as his brother and SIL in US had already booked flights to London to spend New Year as a family.
My stress levels were going overboard, so at the end of November I stopped contacting WS. I wondered if he would notice.
I always log into my instant messenger when I am on the pc and always update my status message with something close to interesting. Apart from WS, I have three other friends as contacts. WS never uses the status message function.
Three weeks into my no contact, WS puts his status message as "Friends forever", the next day "Hoping for a friendly future" then "Friendship will find a way". The day after I put my MB funny moniker (Snotty PottySniffer) he puts "Hopes all is well". Now, I know that these are generic messages like the ones I use so could be addressed for anyone. I obviously don't know what other friends he has on this instant messenger. I put some stuff about Sherlock and so does he. I sent him a generic text for Christmas - no reply. I sent one for New Year and got one back. Then I put a poll question and he answers. I put stuff about Star Trek, so does he.
In my mind, he is trying to make contact. For what purpose, I don't know. I am not in Plan B. I know from his Uncle that he is due back in 2 weeks time. I want to make more direct contact with him and thought about sending him the prospectus of a course I have applied for that starts in April. I know that if we were together he would want to do the course too.
I don't know when his assignment ends but he told his brother in October, 6 more months which would make April but that doesn't necessarily mean he is coming back.
So, finally, I get to my question. Do I contact him now, before he comes back so that he knows that I am open to communication or do I see if he takes the plunge and contacts me when he gets here? I have left the Christmas card and present I got him in our flat that he will be staying at. I don't know if OW is coming with him.
We are going to have to communicate at some point because I need to know if he is ever coming back to the UK. I can't wait in limbo forever!
Any thoughts? Thanks for making it to the end!
TM
If you're up to Plan Aing him, by all means, keep contacting him in any way you can. Remind him of good old times. Send pictures of what he's missing. Talk of the course. Good stuff.
Hi catperson,
I confess to expecting a 2x4 when I saw your name come up!
Thanks for the encouragement.
TM
Hi catperson,
I confess to expecting a 2x4 when I saw your name come up!
Thanks for the encouragement.
TM
Hey TM,
Good to hear from you.
Tossin' aside my personal experiences (all of which were warranted, by the way), CAT is well versed in operating "tools" other than that 2x4......
TB
Hi catperson,
I confess to expecting a 2x4 when I saw your name come up!
Thanks for the encouragement.
TM
Really?
Oh, I didn't mean that in a bad way. Sometimes we need a reality check and you are really good at pointing out what is staring us in the face.
TM,
My personal response would be to "let it be" and let him contact you if he wants to. You have not told him he is not welcome have you??? Plan A would suggest contacting him, but my thought is that if he doesn't want to see you, then suggesting that you two get together would be pushing him, and most WS' don't like being pushed.
If you have a reason to contact him, like you need to know where your attorney is to send documents, then do so. If you have some other reason do so.
I would let him do the work at this point, but I would also let his family that you are more than willing to talk with him if he wants to.
God Bless,
JL
Hi JL,
Thanks for dropping by.
I wasn't really planning on suggesting a get together with WS. In theory, I shouldn't even know when he is visiting next.
The purpose of my e-mail would be to let him know that I am not not contactable. Before I knew about OW, I read SAA and gave my copy to WS. He could be aware of Plan B and think that I am in it, when I am not.
The course I hope to do is on a subject that he is heavily interested in. So it seemed like a good reason to make contact in a non-pushy way. Like a "I saw this and thought of you" kind of thing.
I do want to put the onus on him to contact me when he is here, if he wants to. I am not going to do any chasing on that front.
I haven't spoken with his family in the UK for a while but they should know that my position regarding our marriage hasn't changed - I sent them messages at Christmas which suggested as much. Plus I have been writing to his aunt who we are close to and she is being very supportive, which is nice. I try not to think of his US brother. It just makes me too angry!
Many thanks,
TM
Update:
WS just phoned, 8 weeks after the last contact. We chatted nicely for a while, just like old friends. He said people there had said not to contact me in order to give me time to think. He confirmed that the status message updates were meant for me - he has no other contacts on his messneger. He has now deleted his status update. He wanted to know how I am and what have I been doing. He seemed keen to know whether I had met anyone. He kept saying he was ringing to see how much I had moved on.
He said the situation where he is is the same. He had to spend Christmas and New Year in US (Vegas) because of US government not liking people coming back and forth too much. I said it was sad he didn't get to spend that time with his family when they might be emigrating in 6 months. He said he had fun going to parties etc.
I told him I knew when he was visiting UK next after he refused to tell me (I think he was scared I would turn up at the flat because he is bringing OW with him). He confirmed and said did I want him to take stuff from the house. I said no, his stuff doesn't bother me. I asked what he wanted, I could take it to the flat. He said he didn't know. I said there is nothing important here. We might as well wait until he his back permanently.
Again, he refuses to tell me when that will be. He says he doesn't know. It might be another year. I mentioned that his bosses should know and he said that he would tell them that a crazy person from UK might phone. He said that he already told them we are separated. I asked if they felt bad that they might be partially responsible and he said no.
He said he wants to help me heal and I said he knows how best to do that. He said well, I don't seem to have moved on at all. I said I am in a place where I am open minded. I am happy within myself and have taken this opportunity to improve myself and eliminate the things about myself that I don't like.
I told him that OW had texted me at Christmas. I said there was no swearing but I didn't like the tone. He couldn't believe a) she would go through his phone and b) she would text me.
I said well it had to be her. It was definitely in reply to the message I had sent him. He said he never got a message. Well, she must have deleted it then.
He said he didn't know when he would contact me agin - he was still dealing with the fall out from my FB exposure. I said well when people do something wrong, they have to take the consequences.
At no point was divorce mentioned. ???
Can anyone tell me what is really going on here?
Thanks,
TM
Nope...well yes I can.
He is cake eating. He is seeing if you are still his for the taking if things don't work out. He's just checking to see if his safety blanket is still in place in case OW turns out to be someone he does like/love all that much. The phone deal should have him thinking before he jumps out of the airplane that is your marriage.
Other than that I really don't have a great advice except to enjoy your life.
God Bless,
JL
I am NO VET but that is what I got from that conversation too. He doesn't want to make any concrete decisions about things and he wants to see if he still has you on the line. That is just my humble opinion but that was what was SCREAMING at me. I know that must have been hard, and part of me is glad that I am in Plan B so I don't have to deal with this kind of thing from my WH.
Hi folks,
Thanks for stopping by.
Yes, that was the impression I got as well. I think it is good that he knows I am willing to talk. However, he must also be beginning to realise from the way I speak that reconciliation will be on my terms. I am not a pushover.
When we talked about him coming back permanently, the only thing he said about wanting to stay there, is that it is sunny. Surely, if he were happy with OW, she would be the reason for him wanting to stay there?
When he again asked me how I knew so much I wouldn't tell him but did say the OW is not the sharpest tool in the box (Yeah, I know, he said!) and she leaves a 3 mile trail behind her.
I am thinking all is not well in affair fantasyland. Unfortunately for WS, he doesn't realise how much I actually am moving on and enjoying myself. I could really do with knowing when this assignment is finishing. WS mentioned another year but I don't know if I can live in limbo for that much longer. I really would like someone to love and who will love me in return and I can't start looking whilst I am in limbo.
Thanks,
TM
This can be WH just trying to keep you as his back up plan so he has a place to come back home to when job is over.
Time to plan B WH. Make him think you may not wait forever.
However after three months then you should file for D because WH appears to be a fence sitter. This will force his hand to decide where he wants to be. Then either way this mess will end.
IMO, the only way he will ever come back to you at this point is if you file for divorce and show him you DON'T need him any more. And that cheating results in losing you. Period.
You can always remarry.
TheRoad / catperson,
Thanks for responding. I tend to agree with you. However, I really don't want a divorce, even now I would rather give the marriage a second chance. If I threaten I have to be prepared to carry it out.
I suppose, if he agreed to divorce it would indicate his true state of mind and I don't want to hold out for something that is never going to happen.
If we divorced, I think that would be it. I can't see how we would see each other again. There would be no reason to.
This is such a huge decision to make. As TheRoad suggests, I think I will be best lying low for a few more months and re-evaluate then.
Thanks for your input.
TM
Well, WS is in UK and just called to tell me that he has negotiated with his bosses to transfer over to the US offices for the indefinate future.
I asked him what this means for us, what did he want to do and he kept saying that we had drifted apart, and I don't get on with his family. I said that was rubbish and he is just making excuses for his bad behaviour.
Unfortunately, I then got upset and LB'd and tried to explain how I thought this had all happened. I know, I know it is futile.
What upset me a lot was the fact that he told his brother before he told me. I called him a coward for not telling me face to face. He said that last time he was nice and civil face to face I e-mailed everyone on FB. I don't know what he is referring to here because the last time we had a proper conversation face to face was in August when I chose to visit him in US. The FB exposure was in November. Just wayward fog, I suppose.
I said that I wasn't going to hang around waiting while he is in an affair and would need his addresses in order to start proceedings. I asked him to think really hard about the decision he is making because he would be effectively losing 20+ years of personal history because he could no longer reminisce with me. Are you prepared to lose me, I asked? He said that he has always wanted to live and work in US and I agreed and said that I assumed that sort of long term planning would be done together as a couple. He seems to think that living in US and living with me are mutually exclusive.
I suppose I could start proceedings and make it real slow. When he transfers to US he will be on US wages and holidays with no car or apartment paid for, I think. So I think things will be tough for him as he pays for OW stuff too. OW may even lose interest when he has less money but if he sells the flat in London he will have a tidy sum from that. It depends on whether he can cut all ties to the UK or not. If I get what I think as a financial pay off he may have to sell the flat to fund it.
The thing is that I am so confused because I don't want WS back as he is now. I am frustrated because I have learnt so much here that I want to practise it on DH but I don't know if he can ever be DH again, even if he wanted to. And I don't want to waste any more time pursuing an illusion.
I'm sorry for rambling on. I am not as upset as I thought I would be. I suppose I have had a long time to get used to the idea. It's just very very sad because I truly think that we are meant for each other and I (stupidly) thought we could be a success story.
Thanks for listening.
TM
I just finished speaking to WS. He wanted to discuss further what we had talked about on Tuesday (divorce).
I told him that I absolutely did not want a divorce. WS had spoken with Steve in July so I repeated some of the things that he had heard then. I expressed again my belief that now all our cards are on the table that we can make a proper attempt at a second chance because in the past when we had talked and WS had said he would try harder, that wasn't a second chance because I was still living in the dark as to what the real problem was.
He kept saying that we had drifted apart. I disagreed and said that throughout our adult lives I had told people that WS is the most clever and intelligent person I know yet now I cannot understand why he doesn't "get" the correlation between what he was doing outside of our marriage and his changing feelings inside the marriage.
He again said that he wanted to be friends and I said I wanted that more than anything else in the world but I can't talk to him knowing that OW is there, in the background. I told him some of the things that she had written on her FB page which he may not have picked up. For example, when it was his birthday she put no reference to it. The Halloween party that he paid for wasn't even called WS Birthday party. It is all about her and what she can get him to pay for.
He asked about the procedure for divorce, except strangely thoughout the conversation, he never referred to it as such. He always said if we go down that route or if we do those proceedings. He said that it seemed like I would be trying to punish him by asking for what I am entitled to. I said, no I don't do divorce I do marriage and all that would be dealt with by the lawyers.
I said although some people who don't know better have told me months ago to divorce many have encouraged me to try to reconcile because divorce is so nasty and so expensive. I said it is such a waste to throw away 20+ years just because you don't see how I would fit into the US life.
He said he likes the lifestyle, he likes OW and he is happy there.
I said I could not live in an emotional vacuum for much longer. But I refuse to commit adultery. Two wrongs don't make a right. I asked him to think long and hard about what he is deciding because if we did divorce, even if I was the petitioner it would be his choice, not mine. I left him with the words that I do not want a divorce and he will never find anyone who loves him the way I do.
Are you in Plan A or Plan B?
Are you in Plan A or Plan B?
Steve said that I shouldn't do Plan B so I was in Plan A (from afar) up until the end of November when I became really tired of it so took a step back. I continually update my status message on instant messenger and knew WS could see that. He started to update his status also which was intended for me 3 weeks later and then last Monday he called me. He called again Tuesday (see my post from then) and again today.
Are you in Plan A or Plan B?
Steve said that I shouldn't do Plan B so I was in Plan A (from afar) up until the end of November when I became really tired of it so took a step back. I continually update my status message on instant messenger and knew WS could see that. He started to update his status also which was intended for me 3 weeks later and then last Monday he called me. He called again Tuesday (see my post from then) and again today.
What is your plan?
My plan is to get an initial consultation with a lawyer to get my facts straight.
Then I will give him a couple of months with no direct contact from me to see if he changes his mind. If he doesn't, I will start proceedings. However, he may well decide that it is the best thing to do and ask me to go ahead. I asked him why he didn't start proceedings and he said that he had no grounds. I had done nothing wrong.
I will probably drag things out because he said himself that he has been living in fantasy land and the real world is going to be tough. I envisage his relationship with OW becoming strained with less money to spend and I have the idea that he doesn't feel as strongly about her as she does about him.
But, having said all that, I can't wait forever. I am no Queenie!
You and me both, sistah.
Sounds like a plan.
Thanks. Now I just have to follow it through.