Please help,

My wife and I are in our early 40s, married for about 10 years. No particular problems in our marriage that I can think of, other than she spends a lot of time on the computer, mostly facebook. We both work, and have two kids in grade school.

Today I just received a letter at work (postmarked from out-of-state) that said �this is what you wife is showing other men.� In the letter was a photograph of her showing her breasts. I know it�s recent, based on her hairstyle.

Should I confront her right away? Put spyware on her computer? What should I do?

I'm really not sure what to think.

Thanks.

Dont say anything yet. You will need to install spyware ASAP on the computer and begin digging for information. Find out what she is upto.

And then bring back your info here so we can help you figure out what is really going on.

start with spyware.

If you accuse her, this is what you should expect:

brush it off
deny it
turn the tables and get mad at you
accuse someone of setting her up
accuse someone of doctoring the picture
say it was a joke
say it was a dare
it was just one time thing

ETC.

Put spyware on computer. Monitor for one week.
See what you are truly dealing with.

Again do not confront yet.

Besides a key logger on the PC get a VAR and hide it in her car and activate gps feature on her phone is you can do so without her knowing it.

Then come back here first.

Thanks, I appreciate it.

It's very hard to remain silent for that long, but I'll follow your advice. This is really unbelievable. Thanks again.

Probably the wife of the dude shes emailing pics of her tata's to sent it to you. My guess.

Could be worse, trust me.

Follow through with the plan the veterans will lay out here.

Out of state means perhaps the action hasnt gotten horizontal yet so thats a plus.

Dont confront until you have much more evidence. If she planning a visit to her "aunt" 3 states away, then you will be her copilot.

Be vigilant and get all the facts. NG-Will you please post your famous steps to take when you suspect cheating list?

Death to Facebook.

Bricks, a good key logger is either eblaster (will send you daily reports) or spectorpro (you have to access the computer to get the reports) spectorsoft.com

Thank you.

The computer keylogger should be easy to deal with, I will check those out today. However, it just as well could be via phone. I'm guessing that is how the picture was taken. I looked for a phone keylogger earlier today (she has an Iphone), but the phone needed to be 'jailbroken' to install them. I know hers is not; do you know options for non 'jailbroken' phones? I'm not really up on phone tech, and I couldn't find any alternatives.

The letter that I got was from NY. A few months ago, she visited there for the weekend with two of her (female) work friends. I swear, if something happened there, we are absolutely done.

This whole thing is surreal, like it's a dream.

Have you confirmed this independently? Are you sure she was with two female friends?

I suggest you get a VAR (voice activated recorder) and hide it in her car. See what she's saying on her phone when she's driving and thinks she's alone.

AFAIK Apple does not allow keylogger/spyware apps in their app store, so unless you jailbreak, you are out of luck.
The jailbreak process is not very difficult, but I'm fairly certain it is noticeable to the user, so you'd have to find a 'legit' reason to do it that is believable and put the keylogger on there after that.

Brick,

I know it�s recent, based on her hairstyle.

Did she change her wardrobe, hairstyle, get in shape good signs that she was in an affair when she did so.

God Bless
Gamma

I probably won't jailbreak the phone for now because she did this before to an earlier phone, and doesn't want this one messed with. I think she would detect it. If I get nothing from the VAR and computer keylogger then I may do this, however.

I know one of her friends that she went to NY with; I saw the pictures of the three of them there, so I know they all went together. Both of them are younger, however, late 20's, early 30's (my wife is about 10 years older).


About a year ago, she started to get into running; over the year she did lose some weight. She just recently started another arobics exercise program, and did change her hairstyle and wears makeup more.

My wife has always been very social and likes parties (not much drinking, but socializing), and she talks/facebooks a great deal with family and friends, so it would be very easy to hide something like this from me. Another issue is that she is not from the US originally; she speaks/writes to her friends and family in a language I don't understand. I am good friends with her cousin, however. If anything comes up on the keylogger or VAR (hope to get today or tomorrow), I'm sure he would translate for me.

I really have to try to do some work. This consumed me all day. I'll check back later.

Thanks everyone for the advice, I very much appreciate it all.

Bricks, if the cousin isn't available to translate, you can go online. There are sites where you can plug in the text and it will translate the language to English for you.

The kind of lifestyle that you and your wife lead is an ideal set up for an affair. In order to conduct an affair, one must have the ability to conduct a secret second life. With her independent lifestyle, that is very easy. Having such an independent lifestyle is an invitition to an affair. So, if you want to save your marriage, you will have to change that.

Here's one I've used http://babelfish.yahoo.com/

As requested...

NEVERGUESSED�S BETRAYED HUSBAND SURVIVAL KIT

1- KEEP ALL THESE ARRANGEMENTS SECRET FROM YOUR WAYWARD WIFE!
2 � Put a keylogger on any computer you can access that she might use.
3 � Put a spy program on any cell that she might use. (�Eblaster� can cover #4 as well.)
4 � Put a GPS on her car, reporting to your computer.
5 � Put a VAR in her car, and in any room she might use to take �personal� calls
6 � Get a mini-audio-recorder, and have it in your possession and �on� whenever in her presence.
7 � Put together an e-address list of anyone who might have influence on her � parents, siblings (sisters, especially), coworkers, college friends, clergy, hairdresser, anyone.
8 � Put together a similar list for the POSOM.
WHEN YOU HAVE SUFFICIENT EVIDENCE,
9 � Put together the electronic evidence for each AP.
10 - Write a cover note for your wife�s contacts, to the tune of: �I must unhappily inform you that my wife, XXXXXX, is carrying on an illicit affair with YYYYYY. I am hoping to recover our marriage, and ask if you have any influence over her, to urge her to abandon her cheating lifestyle and return to me and our family. Her cell number is 111-222-3333�
11 � Write a similar note to POSOM�s contacts.
12 � Send out both packages, to all contacts at one time.
13 � Brace yourself.

What language does your wife speak?

Blood tends to be thicker than water in these situations, Bricks are you sure about this? Are you sure he would not warn her? Even in a 'persuade her to stop' sort of way before you are ready for her to know?
Are you sure he wouldn't 'soften the blow' and not translate graphic detail?

Im not saying dont, just consider it. You can always use a free translator to get the jist of whats being siad, then ask him to translate when you are done snooping.

Google translate is a good one too (I am bilingual and find it to be more accurate than Babelfish)

Google translate will get you the basic gest of what is being said, but that also requires that you know both languages to understand what is being translated wrong.

Find a friend or coworker who speaks that language and have them translate.

But I can't stress enough to you how important it is that you get all your ducks in a row first.

There is an interrogation technique that is VERY effective.

You expose little lies and make the person being interrogated believe that there is nothing that they can hide from you because you have a pile of evidence.

So, let me give you a few small examples. Let's say that you get a VAR recording of her talking to "Steve." Lets say Steve is the hypothetical OM. Now lets say you have other evidence, such as her pics, and some emails and texts.

An interrogation would go like this:

You: "How was your day?"
Her: "Great."

You: "Anything interesting happen? Talk to anyone interesting?"
Her: "No. Just the girlfriends."

You: "Do you want to tell me about Steve?"
Her: "I don't know a Steve. Why do you ask?"

You: "Seriously? Steve, from X State. You don't know him?"
Her: "Uh. Oh, him. Ummm. He's just a friend I talk to once in a while."

You: "Really? Just a friend? Ever send this friend any emails? Perhaps some pictures?"
Her: "Uh. Um. Are you spying on me? Are you being irrational and jealous? Am I not allowed to have friends?"

You: "Look. I know about Steve. I know what you've sent him. Do you need me to drag it out of you or will you admit to it?"
Her: "What do you think you know?"

You: (Pulling out pics) These look familiar to you?
Her: How did you get these?!

And so on. Don't spill it all right away. Challenge her. Let her lie. Then present the evidence to show the lie. You'll likely catch more lies on the VAR. So once you expose one lie, you expose another one. You then make her believe she can't lie about anything since you seem to already know more than you actually do. This is how you get a confession.

Expect her deflect, yell, try to change the subject, etc.

She'll lie like crazy. Believe none of what you hear and half of what you see.

I also suspect that she may have had some sort of meeting on her trip with these younger women. She may have had a one nighter or a flirtateous encounter.

But a keylogger will reveal any exchanges with this OM.

I'm sorry you're going through this. It sucks. But gather your evidence and play things smart. Don't let your emotions guide you.

Thanks everyone, I really appreciate all of the advice.

I just installed a keylogger on her computer this evening (eblaster�thanks Melody), but I think if any continuing communication is occurring, it is probably via her phone. Thanks NG, for the survival kit list. I�ll get a few VARS and put them in her car, and in a couple of rooms that she is usually in, hopefully tomorrow. She listens to the radio loud, so I might have to pull the fuse on that for a while.

My wife speaks Filipino (Tagalog), but also her home dialect with family. I�m guessing the person would probably speak Tagalog also�she mostly communicates with other Filipinos (family, old friends, classmates, etc).

For translation, I trust her cousin, but I probably wouldn�t tell him who the conversations were from. I have a dozen Filipino friends who could translate as well that aren�t family nor as close to her, so I may reconsider as suggested; that shouldn�t be a problem. Google translate is a good idea, but I�m guessing the abbreviated language of texting may not translate well. I don�t text and can�t understand half of it in English.

There is a guy she occasionally communicates with in NY; she�s known him for some years but they�ve never met (she says). In fact, he texted her today on her phone. I did casually ask about this guy when he texted, and she said they never met and probably never will because his wife is jealous. I know that sounds bad. However, she isn�t secretive with her phone nor their occasional texting; I picked up her phone and read the brief message (I couldn�t understand it) when it came in, she had no problem with it� so I don�t know.

She did say I was acting strange when I came home. Can�t deny, I am stressed out, I said work was bad. I did ask her about her phone model, computer, etc., so I could be sure the software I was buying would work. I looked through her pictures on her phone (not in front of her face, but she knew I had her phone; she immediately gave me the password when I asked for it), but didn�t find anything incriminating. She then asked why are you �policing� me? First she asked that defensively, but then later approached me and asked the same thing calmly, then again in a laughing way. I thought it odd.

I�ll stop all of the obvious snooping and get the info directly from the keylogger and VARS, as she is apparently now suspicious of me. I never cared at all about who she talked to before, nor showed any interest in phones, etc., so maybe that set it off.

Thanks for the warnings and information, I won�t reveal anything until I can confirm something.

Sorry for the long post.

I really appreciate everyone�s help.

She is showing some suspicious behaviour. Trust your gut that something is going on, but you need to get evidence first.

She wasn't worried about you looking at her phone, because she KNEW you wouldn't understand it anyways.

This man with the "jealous wife" is a good place to start. What would his wife have to be jealous about? An inappropriate relationship, that's what.

Because I received the alert letter from NY, I�m assuming she was contacting someone in NY electronically. So, this guy is on my radar. But, she communicates with many people; she has hundreds of facebook friends. I�m fairly certain she would give me his name and contact info if I asked. However, at this point I don�t want to ask her additional questions about him to tip her off more.

My plan is to wait for info from the keylogger and/or VARs (still need to get VARs today). However, I�m concerned that if the contact is primarily texting, and I suspect that it is, I won�t be able to pick that up at all with the tools that I have. Maybe I can convince her to jailbreak her phone and put something on there. I�ll wait on that one for a week. I�m not sure what else I can do.

You should check to see if your cell provider can give you logs of text messages sent/received at her number (if the account is in your name). Not all provide this info easily, but they have the data. Depends on the company as to how you go about getting it.

If you get this, it might just give numbers that were used and not the content of the texts, but you could find out the numbers used most and compare this to numbers called....see if you can find any patterns.

This sounds like backcovering for a sequence of events that went like this:

OM: My wife is suspicious/has found out about you.
WW: What if she gets in touch with my H!
OM: Tell him she's a jealous nut. Its just her word.

My bet is that the 'jealous nut' OMW decided to send you evidence. If so, what a shame she did not get in touch in person.

Another possibility is that she simply knows about your wifes affair/seen some strange behaviour and so doesnt want her H talking to her.

It would be a good idea to see if you can make contact with this wife. Can you reach her on FB or some other way? Once you are in a position to after some more snooping, it could be very valuable to reach out to her and ask her what she knows.

You sound strong, in good shape and are doing all the right things.

That is unusual and very impressive. Keep it up! Come on here if you want to vent...

Couldn't the reason that she was not upset when you read her message be that she knows you couldn't understand it? That sounds like a likely target.

Do not have the cousin translate.
He may be your friend but you do not want to reveal to him you are keylogging for future reference.

Find someone else, not so close to the family that can translate.

You could even find someone online to do it if google translate isn't clear enough.

Bricks,

Be VERY careful with the info you will be getting.

When you have enough info to confront, you are under NO obligation to reveal HOW you got it,,nor should you reveal. In some states (depending on where you live) some suggestions are not legal. I am NOT suggesting you not do this. DO IT! I did and had to do so to get the truth and save my sanity. I didn't care if it could be used in court nor did I care if it could be considered "stalking". I needed to know FOR ME!

I never did tell him exactly HOW I knew. I insinuated I had a PI and that many of his so-called "friends" didn't really aprrove of his actions & told me.

Check out the Operation Investigation Forum for lots of suggestions and advice. Do what you've got to do & be careful!

indie--

I really wish the person who sent the warning told me who my wife sent the picture to, or something more about what happened, but I guess I�m grateful that I got what I did.

Good idea, maybe I can try to contact her through FB somehow. My wife said that this guy and his wife are friends with her on FB. I�m not exactly sure what to say, however, I�ll have to think about that... if she is not the right person, I don�t want to say something that would get back to my wife and let her know what I know.

high road�

Good idea, I will try to get in touch with the phone co. for phone logs. My wife handles all of the bills, however, so I may need some info from her to access the account. I�ll be careful with that.

Melody�

I agree with you, it could be that she isn�t afraid because she could tell me the text said anything. If I could capture the texts somehow, I could have them translated. I�ll see if I can get them from the phone co. I�m still thinking of a back-up plan if I cannot.

reading, Nerlycrzy--

I will be careful about my wife�s cousin as well as not revealing info sources, thanks for the reminders. I still have some time to think about those things.


This whole thing is really pissing me off more than anything else right now. I couldn�t sleep at all last night. And so much of my time and some $ is wasted on this already, and this is only a day into it (I�m mad at my wife, not you all!)... Whine over.

Thanks again to all of you.

I wouldn't say anything to them until you are certain what is going on. But I would copy and paste all this guys and his wife's contacts into a WORD doc and save it.


You might be able to sign on online and get the phone log.

Just say: Did you send me a package in the mail?

If she says no, tell her ok thanks you already saw who it was from.

CV

Does she always log out of Facebook on her computer?

Can you get her FB password?

Can you get onto her FB from her phone?

Can you get her email passwords?

Sorry, you're here. I know spending the money on keyloggers and stuff sucks, but hiring lawyers and getting a divorce is way, way more expensive.

Call logs are readily available online, but text logs usually take a special request through customer service or other department.

I wouldn't say anything to them until you are certain what is going on. But I would copy and paste all this guys and his wife's contacts into a WORD doc and save it.

[quote]—

I agree you need to get all the info you can from your end before finding out what she knows.

You will need to contact OMW (when you are sure who she is/there is one) any way as part of your exposure plan.

Just the same as this person who sent the pic should have got in touch properly.

But I know what your saying about being grateful for what you got. TONNES of people knew my H was having an A and just sat on their hands.

Their is also the possibility she was told lies about you (if it is OMW) You heard she was jealous, she heard you were controlling/abusive/whatever-crap-waywards-say-so-often-its-practically-obligatory.

Dont be dishearteartened. Although betrayal is massively painful you are doing brilliantly and I am sure will come through this holding all the cards.

From what I understand, you can download iphone text messages through the iTunes backup.

From a quick search, here are some links with some options:

http://www.ehow.com/how_7767959_save-sms-messages-iphones.html

http://www.brighthub.com/mobile/iphone/articles/82519.aspx

http://osxdaily.com/2010/07/08/read-iphone-sms-backup/

Bricks, sorry you are here but welcome. You are in good hands, you have many good posters helping you

I haven't read all the way through the thread yet but someone asked me to stop by because I have family members that are Filipino. If you need something translated, LMK and we can set something up through the moderator.

Hang in there!

Bricks this is expensive and underhanded, but this is your life we are talking about here.

I suggest the iphone could have an "accident". If you dumped your beer on it, it would force her to use the pc, and the keylogger would be more effective for a few days.

Knowledge is power..

Our Canadian neighbor does have a point. Full beer bottles can be quite destructive to glass-faced iphones...especially when you drop them onto phones from a height of a foot or so above.

I know the accidental toilet drop or full sink of dishes nudge have been bantered about around these boards before as well. Just a thought.

This actually happened to a friend of mine recently. We were having a painting party one weekend and he decided (in his infinite wisdom) to tote his beer up on the 8 foot ladder with him to keep him company while he painted. Ladder next to end table, iphone on end table, friend seriously tipsy...you get the picture. Yep, the inevitable occurs. One little inebriated sway of the ladder and BAM...iphone is a dead soldier. Long-neck Bud Light did a swan dive with perfectly flawless execution. It was an Olympic grade 10.

If it can happen by accident with such precision, it can certainly happen accidentally on purpose!

Poop does, indeed, occur.

But maybe that stuff about getting past messages via iTunes will work as well.

Still may favorite bumper sticker of all time (worded a tad bit differently of course)


I obviously missed something here. I need to go back to the beginning of this saga and read some more.

His WW has a new iPhone and he's not sure how to install "helpful" software on it without jailbreaking it.

I had mentioned that some people have used iTunes to download the text message history from an iPhone. Whether it applies to the latest generation phones, I couldn't say, but it may be worth looking into.

Gotcha now. Well you certainly can't install anything on an iphone without jailbreaking it first right now, but I've read it's coming soon.

Had no idea about the iTunes avenue. That's a new one on me.

This is what I love about this board; collective intelligence to help the BS have the best info possible to give them the best chance to recover his/her marriage.

I'm living proof that going at it alone doesn't work.

I quite prefer the accidental knock off the table and step on it while picking it up.

Well, that works too if you want to be civil about it.

You two! I still have to keep an eye on you?? You KNOW you can kill a cell phone by dropping it into a sinkful of dishwater, correct! You HAVE been washing the dishes after dinner, right?? Right?? What's all this business about beer???

Sheesh, marital. Beer fixes everything, doncha know!

Oh, and, down here, we have dishwashing machines that do the work for us. Shoot, there's no need to even put my beer down to do the dishes!

It's curious that we keep having to educate you on the finer things in life. There must just be something about you folks of, shall we say, more northern latitudes.

Everyone,

"deceptivegirl" is my wife. I have to get to work so I will go into details later, but I got a confession last night, at least a partial confession. Please help her out.

I will check back later this evening, I will be without internet access all day.

Thank you all.

How did you get this confession? Did you confront her? Did you get any actual evidence yourself first?

And who told your WW about MB? That was a BIG mistake right now. Did she even say that she wanted to try to save your marriage? Now she will read everything that we post to you, and you won't be able to keep snooping. That was a GRAVE mistake.

After reading your WW's description of the affair, (texting and talking secretly for the last year), I find it hard to believe that this didn't go physical. Especially if she already knew this man pretty well and you live in the same area. Affairs typically escalate very quickly to a physical level and most wayward spouses will only admit to an EA up front.

I could be wrong....but I would make sure she knows that you need to know the whole truth of what happened and then tell her you will be setting an appointment for a polygraph to ensure she isn't hiding anything else.

I completely agree with SusieQ

The poly has already been seconded.

I will third it.

Most WS when told the date for polygraph test just before the date the WS suddenly opens up with the I remembers about the affair.

A polygraph is essential.

Yes! Add to the mix the fact that she has had opportunity (going out of town without her husband.) I was thinking that earlier. I would definitely suggest a polygraph. If she is as sincere as she sounds on her thread, she certainly would not object, yes?

I can�t find my last thread, I�m not sure what happened to it.

Anyway, I found it impossible to pretend like nothing was wrong, and it was driving me crazy, so yesterday evening I told my wife that I knew that she did something and I wanted her to confess. She asked me what I knew, and I refused to reveal the info that I had. As she wouldn�t confess to anything, I couldn�t live like that, and I said I wanted a divorce and left to a hotel (no bluff, I meant it). She found me through the credit card transaction, gave me a call a few hours later, and confessed the story she repeated here over the phone, with a little prodding. As she revealed more details than I had (more pictures sent, more information about what they were chatting about), I said I would be willing to try to save the marriage if she met a few conditions. Some of these were:
1) timeline of what happened
2) polygraph
3) reveal affair to sack-of-sh*ts wife
4) follow MB forum advice and program

I made it clear if I find any lying AT ALL, I am done. I cannot live like that; it�s simply not worth it to me.

She said she was willing to do all of these and anything else I asked, and seemed remorseful. So, I thought it was time to send her here.

So far she: 1) wrote the timeline 2) wrote a NC letter (should this be physical mail or email?), and 3) wrote a confession letter to the wife, and 4) has apparently participated in the forum.

Tonight we are discussing how to reveal to the wife. My preference is to contact her myself, as if I got a call/apology/whatever from the OM, it would infuriate me.

We plan to change all contact info; phone #, email, delete FB.

The remaining immediate needs that I see are to: 1) schedule a poly (I want her to do this), and 2) continue to participate in MB.

Please let me know if we are on the right track.

I greatly appreciate your help.

I agree with this 100%; the OMW doesn't want to hear from the perp. Much better to come from you. You did a beautiful job and I want to applaud you!

You're on the right track.

I second this.

Beautiful,simple, to the point Plan Aing.

You did carrot and stick. Let's see what she does.

Just be sure to schedule that poly. Many waywards will throw some crumbs to the BS, then swear on a stack of bibles that they have *finally* told the whole truth in hopes you will not follow through with it.

You're doing great!

I've already been on your WW's thread and told her that she needs to commit to doing a polygraph for your safety. Insist upon it.

Are you actually inferring she may be lying still and hopeful that Bricks will fall for it? Blasphemy! That could NEVER happen!

Cough, cough...Bricks? Make sure you schedule that poly and follow through with it. If she's serious about this, then it won't be a problem. You'll get your answers and have at least some peace of mind. If she bails, well then....

You have your answer there as well

Oh, btw, I whole heartedly agree with everyone else that has said this. You've performed admirably. Well done!

GREAT WORK BRICKS.

WE'll help deal with your WW, you take care of your side of things.

You did a great job, just don't let up now.

Great job. Stay strong.

ITA. I would have gone through the phone if the OW had called me with her whiny little words of apology.

Thanks everyone for the encouraging words (also thanks to the kind moderator who combined my two threads).

Last night I wrote a message through my wife�s FB page to the other BS and left my email and phone #, she immediately called me. I briefly spoke to her, then she wanted to speak to my wife. She understandably blasted my wife for about 5-10 minutes. Apparently this guy cheated on his BS before and even had a kid with his previous affair partner. I then spoke to her after, she thanked me for letting her know. She was unaware of what was going on and was not the person who sent the incriminating picture to me. She was very angry with my wife but I could hear the sadness in her voice when she was speaking to me. I felt really bad for her.

The call shook my wife up, to directly hear how her activities really hurt someone else. I�m not so good at expressing those kind of emotions so she really didn�t get much more than anger from me.

I have the NC letter, and I will send today. My wife also gave me a list of passwords for everything (I didn�t ask for this), and shut down her facebook page. This was a big one to me, as she spent a great deal of time and effort on that site I thought she might never give it up. She also changed her email address and called the phone co. to get a new number for her phone. Next is for her to research polygraphs and get it scheduled.

One of my requirements of our reconciliation is that we follow the MB plan. I found this site some months ago and tried to get her into MB, as we were not emotionally close. At the time, she was not interested (no surprise to me now, she was getting her emotional needs met with someone else). Now she said she will follow the plan. Here I need to ensure that we don�t neglect this critical step and continue the poor, mostly independent, behaviors that got us here in the first place. I have to take responsibility for the state of our marriage as well, as I spent a lot of time by myself working on my car, house projects, etc. I read about �EP�s, and I think we�ll have to institute those, and for me too. We have a lot of planning to do.

To any WW�s who might be reading, attitude and actions go a long way. Two days ago I was furious and ready to divorce; now my anger is mostly gone and I want to rebuild my marriage with my wife.

I really appreciate all of the help and support that was freely given to us. I�m also very grateful to the anonymous person who alerted me to my wife�s activities before the situation got much worse. I don�t need to tell this to most people here, but if someone in doubt is reading, please, if you know something like this is going on, somehow let the spouse know.

Great job, Bricks!! Nice touch in having the OMW speak to your wife!

Now, to recover your marriage. It is a very narrow road and most marriages don't recover unless they change their marriage using these concepts. You can do it yourself if you are disciplined enough to go through the lessons on your own. Harley outlines the various options here, but you would want to add his book Surviving an Affair: MB plans

...so who sent you the pictures if it was not OMW you exposed to?

Is it possible theres a 2nd OM?

Good question. Bricks, any thoughts?

I would add that I suggest you and her get into counseling with Steve or Jennifer here at Marriage Builders IMMEDIATELY!

My bet on the source of the pictures would be a buddy of the POSOM! (I made this point on her thread.)

One question on the poly would confirm that there is only one OM. Until then, I'd not waste emotional/mental energy on this issue. You and she have more pressing concerns.

Thanks, everyone.

I don�t know who sent the photo or how it was obtained. My wife is scared about who has the picture(s). It would be scandalous in her family. I never wanted to see her hurt or humiliated. But, those may be the unfortunate consequences.

My gut response is that my wife is being truthful, that there were not other inappropriate contacts. However, I know that she may be lying. If so, I will uncover this during the poly.

Melody, thanks for the link. This weekend we�ll sit down and discus the best plan for us w/ regard to MB. I like the idea of calling the Harleys or maybe the on-line course (or both), rather than attempting to do it ourselves. I think a �coach� would maximize our chances for long-term success.

I saw a lot of good points in there. Good Job.

Now, have you exposed to anyone else?

ITA with MM, you need to get her on the phone.

Maybe even do the online course.

I was wondering about who else was exposed to as well?? The only person I think you have mentioned was the OMW.

Like, for instance, the mutual friends that your WW mentioned on her thread. They should probably be exposed to so that they don't inadvertently invite you all to the same event, mention OM to you two, etc. This kind of indirect contact will not be good for your recovery. You may even have to give those mutual friends up...

Bricks, be aware that there is a specific way that FB needs to be shut down to make it a permanent cancellation. Make sure she has done this correctly. Here's a link for the correct way to permanently delete a Facebook account: Permanently Delete A Facebook Account It's not the same as just deactivating an account. If she deactivated it, she can reactivate it at any time.

Also, be aware that if there is any attempt to access her account within two weeks of cancelling the account, attempting to access it will stop the cancellation process and her account will once again be current. Make sure she does not attempt to access her account, even to 'make sure' it's cancelled.

There are many reasons why I would rather be betrayed than a wayward, and this is just one. OM are scum bags. We have seen ones that drug young girls, that are drug addicts themselves and pimps, not to mention the child abusers and yet(formerly) nice women fall for them in the fog. I can point to and describe wayward madness after spending time on this forum. But I cannot say I understand it.

Good job on how you handled things with OMW. I am sick of arguing with BHs who just want to leave the OMW in painful ignorance because they are scared of their WW.

Not only did you man up and do it, you got your wife to do the right thing also and you handled the situation with sensitivity.

I have no worries about your attitude, here.

Some bad news for me and my kids. She admitted they ***EDIT*** in NY when she visited there. At this point I am no longer interested in continuing the marriage.

I�m going to call the OMW today and let her know. What a shame, so much lost and destroyed, so many hurt. For absolutely nothing.

I am sorry for wasting everyone�s time here.

I wish everyone the best luck in moving forward in their lives, whichever path that may take.

Kind regards and best wishes,

Bricks

Oh, Bricks. I am so sorry. I was very much afraid of that, knowing she had gone to NY.

Listen, don't make any decisions this very second, okay? I know how bad you feel - remember that there are many of us here who were/are in similar situations. You don't have to decide anything right now.

And please consider staying on this site so we can help you through this, regardless of whether or not you choose to remain in the marriage.

Oh. no, no, no, Bricks. Don't bail on this board.

I completely understand your desire to divorce. It's possible that you'll change your mind, but maybe you won't.

In either case, you'll get a lot of support here. You can use this forum for support and advice if you decide to try to reconcile, or use it for the same reason as you go through the divorce process. If you decide to proceed with divorce, you can move your thread over to the Divorced/Divorcing forum and get help staying sane and grounded through a difficult, emotionally-painful process.

I'm the last one to try to convince you one way or the other on how you should deal with the infidelity in your marriage, but would like to be the first in line to convince you to stay here, use this site, whatever path you take.

There are a lot of great folks here that've walked your walk ahead of you. Please stay and let them support you. You'll quickly find yourself in a position to support and help others.

EDIT: Well, okay. Please let me be the second in line to convince you to stay here. MB beat me to the head of the line

I am very sorry Bricks, I had a feeling about this and wish I had been wrong.

Bricks, you have every right to make this decision if you are sure.

But are you? It is very rare we see a permanent decision made rationally on here so close to D-Day.

Why not work the plans anyway, and ensure you have all options - including divorce - open to you when you feel more level.

You deserve all options, quite frankly.

You can be perfectly frank with her about not being sure, about leaning towards divorce

The danger of leaving MB at this stage is that you WILL soon miss her, and regret the decision. If you then return without any plan in place it puts you at risk of a false recovery.

I am divorcing my H and dont want to recover. But the MB plans have stopped me from making mistakes in that respect.

Feeling change daily.

It is an emotional rollercoaster.

It takes time for it to stop.

When it stops, you will know.

Yeah divorce might be inevitable, but its good to have some place to vent and discuss options while you are splitting up.

Bricks,

Have you checked out Mirror-Mirror's thread?

think its called caught in the act...

He caught his wife in the act, on top of OM. Not suprisingly he wanted to go straight to Plan D and Plan FU. He was a tough customer and took no excuses from her at all.
He is recovering, nevertheless because his wife's actions to show commitment, just compensation and repentance have been unstoppable and unwavering.

I am not saying your situaion will be the same, I dont know how trustworthy your wife will show herself to be or indeed that you will care. Just that it is possible and worth a look.

Bricks,

I'm sorry. I know it hurts but I wouldn't bail out so quickly. You've only been on this site for 5 days. Give it a chance. The best case scenario is that you and your wife are able to save your marriage. The worst case scenario is that you have a place to vent and get support in the event that you do divorce.

The one thing you have going for you is that your WW is here seeking help. That in itself is 100% more than what my WW has done. That says your wife wants to work on the marriage.

Please don't misunderstand, I'm not trying to minimize your pain or condone your wife�s behavior. There are lots of people here who would love for their wayward spouse to admit they need help, and are seeking help to save their marriage. In that sense you�re ahead of most and you�re marriage may have a chance. My soon to be ex never had any intention of trying to work out the problems of our marriage or even admitting any wrong doing. My marriage probably never had a chance of working.

Think about it over the weekend. I know it hurts and you�re probably an emotional wreck. But don�t make a decision based on emotions right now.

Sorry Bricks.


Take your time to decide to divorce <~~~ LINK

So sorry to hear this, Bricks.

While I completely support a BS's decision to D over infidelity (really I do! I am currently in Plan D!), I agree with what Pep posted to you ~ take your time to make that decision. Please.

The decision to D should NOT come right after you have gotten the devastating news that you have just gotten.

And I understand that dealing with a foggy (still lying) wayward is extremely frustrating, but please know that as she defogs, your feelings towards her will most likely change. Since she has agreed to NC, poly and to get onboard with MB, I have a lot of hope that she can make a turn-around. But she will need some time. WW's don't defog overnight.

I hope you will come back even if you do decide to D and keep posting, Bricks. Hang in there...

Hi Bricks. I just got through looking at your thread, and would first like to reinterate what others have already said about having a "cool down", period, before making any life-altering decisions. Most, if not all of what happens next, will depend on your wife and her actions. If you look at my threads, you will see that my wife has literally done everything she could to PROVE her love, honesty, remorse and commitment to our marriage, except suicide (and she considered this). She has and will take any Poly I say, whenever I say it. She has given me a post-nup that states that If we divorce FOR ANY REASON OR NO REASON, she leaves the marriage with basically the clothes on her back. ALL money, property, household effects, custody of the girls, are mine. She doesn't use the PC except in my presence, she has no cell phone, except when I give it to her, and whenever she goes anywhere, she has to account for everything if I want her to, and be on call 24/7. But the MOST important thing is THAT SHE IS THE ONE WHO DID ALL OF THIS. She is not only willing but actually looks for new ways to prove herself. And even with this, there are times when I have seriously thought about divorcing her. If you want, you can look at my threads, and see what WE have done together, to re-make our marriage, but right now you need to take some time to assess your own feelings and wants. I completely recommend the programs of the Harley's, and I want you to know that my wife and I are 100% behind their recommendations for reconciliation. The POJA, meeting the EN's, Radical honesty, Love bank, and quality time together, we practice (almost without thinking anymore) religiously. We both, constantly, are searching for new ways to show our love and devotion. We agree that without this site and the information we have received that we would most likely be divorced and she would maybe have attempted to end her life. Reconciliation CAN happen, we are proof of that.

Bricks are you ok?

Super worried about you.

Bricks, I am gonna throw my voice into the ring too.

Feelings not only change day to day, they can change minute to minute.

If you don't want to post right now, we all understand. You could read some other threads and see what advice is given.

I would ensure that you get a poly even if your WW says she has admitted to everything. Waywards tend to trickle truth. It's quite common.

Your emotions are very raw right now. Take a breath. You have time to decide if you want to get a D.

Bricks,
Usually the line for the roller coaster is a lot longer than the ride itself. Not true with infidelity. Its a long, nauseating ride. I've been on it since August and I think I have a long way to go before its over. My emotions and feelings have vacillated a great deal. There have been many days and even weeks where I felt resigned to ending the marriage. Anger and intense pain ruled over my first month of the affair. I wanted to end it. Later, after assessing everything (Like you, I have children), I wanted to fight for reconciliation. I still go back and forth, but ultimately, I believe my marriage is worth saving provided there is true remorse and a renewed commitment to rebuilding it following the MB principles. It's been posted here that 65% of marriages survive affairs. I've heard many stories of marriages recovering and being better than ever.

Obviously, this is a decision for you to make, but like so many have already suggested, give it some time; don't be rash.

Bricks, just wanted to let you know we are all thinking of you. Take care.

I apologize for the melodramatic previous message. I received two �additional� pieces of information from my wife over the weekend. #1) she admitted sex; #2) she said they met twice. She took a trip to a different state earlier than the NY trip, that I completely forgot about; that is where they apparently first met. I then called the other BW with this new information, and she again spoke to my wife.

I decided to divorce, and I asked her to leave. She respected that decision, left the credit cards (I didn�t ask this), took no money or anything else. However, I began to think more about my kids, and maybe that option is not the best for them. I don�t want their lives to be destroyed. I think I at least owe them the possibility of saving their family. It was very hard to swallow my pride on this one.

However, I decided to continue through with the divorce, as this marriage is dead to me. She agreed to an uncontested divorce in which I get what I wanted (house, primary custody, basically all assets); I�m preparing the papers, which are fairly easy in this case.

But, I also decided to try to work on reconciliation. This time, SHE needs to take the lead. If it works out, possibly we can remarry. I also require a prenuptial in the case of a new marriage She agreed to all of my terms. So far, she seems sincere (called Harleys, participates in the forum, scheduled poly, scheduled STD testing). That said, I�m tentative now, waiting for yet another shoe to drop. The poly is the final decider. ANY failed questions = no more chances. Then, I�ll have a free conscience ending this. Every piece of new major info eliminates more of my desire to try. There is not much left. We�ll see.

Thanks to all for caring, I really appreciate it. I really do.

Bricks, I am sorry that you had this devastating blow to you this weekend.

I also understand that you want to divorce. That is your right. How long would the divorce take? We usually suggest that BSs don't make any life changing decisions for at least 6 months after DDay.

Thanks, Scotland.

Uncontested divorce w/ children I believe is 6 months in my state, but I could be mistaken. However, I don�t want to delay on this for my protection. I no longer trust my ability to know if my wife is lying or not. I am afraid I may get sucked back into a false life with her again. With the divorce, I feel secure with the other important things in my life, primarily my kids. I envision this as a divorce on paper only; she would still live in the house (although we are in separate rooms for now) as we work toward reconciliation. Also, I feel that there needs to be some strong consequence for her actions from me. I am not sure what else to do that I can live with.

Hey Bricks its good to hear from you, I was thinking about you all day today!

Trickle truth is massively painful and your wife will have to do a buttload (thats the technical term) of Just Compensation to make up for this.

Poly is of course essential, and I like some of her other actions...

How transparent is her life to you? Can you see everything? Do you have access to all accounts and passwords?

Is the divorce for your legal protection? Couldnt you just do the poly now? If she pledges to leave the marrriage with nothing and to give full custody in the case of a divorce, that action could be more just compensation for you.

But do whatever protects you best according to your legal advisor. You need to verify eveything and protect to the hilt of course.

Bravo for you giving your marriage a shot. If nothing else you can leave knowing you did all you could.

I dont regret working the MB plans even though Im getting divorced because giving it your all means no regrets.

Bricks, would you be able to achieve the same with a Post-nup?

I think it would be very confusing for your children to find out that you are getting a divorce but your wife will still be living there and you would be dating her. Have you thought about how that will effect them?

I also think that you should tell your children. They are most likely blaming themselves for what is going on at home now. No one is telling them what is going on, so they will think it MUST be about them. They should know the TRUTH. This is about their family too.

I also think, and am pushing, to have your family and friends learn about the affair as well.

Exposure is a must Bricks,

Mould doesnt grow well in sunlight. Lets get it out there.

Who would be on the exposure list?

Post nups mean nothing in my state.

In some places, pre-nups mean nothing as well. That's why attorneys need to be asked about both.

...Your wife needs to reveal who could have sent the pictures. I don't buy the "friend of a OM must have sent it".

Why I don't buy that theory is
"Wouldnt the OM realize who sent it?"
"Wouldnt the OM's friend be worried it could be traced back them"
"How would the OM's friend know your address?"

Others have said that this isnt a big deal, but it just bothers me WHO? and WHY?

Can you ask your wife during the poly "Did you send these pictures to anyone else?"

It would be of vital importance, not just about the pic, but about any other possible OM.

Indie� Thanks. She gave me all of her passwords right away, changed her email address & phone #, shut down facebook, and made a list of all our account info (banking, phone, power co., etc.�she handles all of the bills). But, I did not check anything yet.

The divorce is for my protection, but also for emotional reasons.

She called several places for the poly, but only one got back to her. It is to be scheduled for this week, maybe as soon as tomorrow. We were concerned about the one company who returned her call because it seemed too cheap (less than $250), and that the guy called it the �Braxton comparison method� or something like that. I want to quickly research that a little more to be sure I get a good test. It�s important to me that this is done soon, however.

Scotland�I�m not sure about the post-nup. We can divorce uncontested for free (just file the forms and a filing fee), rather than pay an attorney $2000+ (estimates I saw). If the judge rejects the settlement agreement, we lose nothing and can resubmit. However, for the pre-nup, I would use an attorney to be sure it would hold up.

I soon want to let my parents and my kids know what is going on. We both mentioned to our kids that we�re having problems that had nothing to do with them, but I don�t yet want to be specific. I want a few other things taken care of first, so I better know what to tell them; i.e. results of poly, and first talk with the Harleys. I don�t want to tell my parents or my kids that Mommy did this, and we are trying to fix it, and then a week later say, no, now I want Mommy to move out. For now, I�ll leave it up to my wife when to say something to her friends and some of her family members. I think it would be good if her close friends and close family friends eventually knew, however.

Some of my wife�s family is (sorry Hon) generally awful. Her mother in particular has treated her very poorly over the years--much unwarranted criticism, deceit, even stealing from her, all behind the desire to present a golden public image. A long story. But I don�t think telling her Mom and some of her other family members close to her Mom would help at all. If anything, I believe it would just generate a lot of hateful communication for years, embellishment of the events, and lead to a permanent split in our families.

RMX--I think there is a reasonable possibility that the BW actually sent the picture. I think it was feminine handwriting, I don�t believe my wife has any other male contacts in NY, and also, it was interesting in my conversations with the BW that, she never asked about exactly what I received. Twice I vaguely explained this, and she kind of brushed it aside or changed the subject when I brought it up. She also showed no interest in who the anonymous person may have been. I though it odd. That said, I did get the impression that she wasn�t aware of the communication, so who knows.

In any case, I will ask about other OM in the poly.

Thats really strange. As a BW myself I would have wanted it either scanned and sent by email or described in painstaking detail!

I dunno, when I was first called about my WH's possible affair, all I managed to say to the person was "Okay" about 20 times. It could be shock.

I don't think it matters who sent it, except in the case that it is another OM, and any good polygraph would get that taken care of.

Bricks (and Mrs. Bricks),

I am not one of the learned 'vets' nor a long-timer by any means, but I have been on this site as a poster and lurker for over 2 years now. I try to follow situations that are similar to mine, and every great once in a while I try to offer thoughts and advice that I hope will help. I'm a huge fan of MB, even though my own marriage did not survive my WWs emotional affair. We are in the final days of the divorce process. All of our attempts to reconcile failed simply because it takes two to make the MB principles work, and my WW didn't want to try. Simple as that.

I've followed your story and just want to jump in with one comment. You have something that I desperately wanted for more than a year while I tried to recover my relationship with my wife and get our marriage back on track - a willing partner. There are many, many betrayed spouses who would have given anything for the 'wondering' spouse to get out of the fog long enough to work with us, rather than fight our attempts to save our marriages. It appears, at least from what I've read, that you have that. Your WW seems to want to make your marriage work. Please, make the most of the opportunity that she is presenting to you.

It won't be easy. You've just suffered the worst hurt imaginable, with the exception of losing a child. You need to heal, and she needs to help you heal. She seems willing to do that.

You can rebuild your marriage if you are both willing to take ALL of the steps for recovering your marriage and then building a solid, passionate marriage that can last forever by following the steps in the Harley's programs. I'm convinced of that. This site is called Marriage Builders for a reason, but like anything you build, it will take time, a lot of hard work, and teamwork. It's really not anything complicated - it just takes two people who want to work hard enough to make it happen. Again, the commitment to succeed must come from both spouses, and it appears that your WW wants to at least try. I hope and suggest that you give her that opportunity. It will change your lives for the better, and it will most definitely have a very positive impact on the lives of your children.

I, and a few others that I got to know well here, kept the door open for our WWs as long as we possibly could, and none of them even bothered to listen to what the MB principles were all about. Our wives were too selfish to want to try to work with us and to try to save our families. You have a fantastic advantage over us. You have a teammate. Use that advantage.

Give it your all as long as you can. Follow the steps. Listen to the people on this board. We're all veterans of an affair in one way or another. You won't find a more caring bunch anywhere.

God Bless,
Linus

+1 Linus

Thank you, Linus. I appreciate the encouraging words. Assuming all goes well this week, I plan to give it my all.


Here are my tentative poly questions. Please forgive me, one is rather explicit. I am allowed a maximum of five. PLease give me any any questions/comments.

1. Did you meet OM on any occasions other than one weekend in Ohio and one weekend in New York?

2. While married, did anyone other than your husband ejaculate into your body without a condom?

3. While married, did you have intentional sexual contact with anyone else other than your husband and OM?

4. Did you have any further contact with OM after **(date)**?

5. While married, did you intentionally send naked pictures of yourself to anyone other than OM and your husband?

Bricks,

I also went through the shock and unbelievable pain of discovering my husband was involved with another woman. And not just having sex but head over heels in love with her. He wasn't willing to give her up and I knew we would divorce soon after discovery. BUT, after we separated I didn't file for another year and I'm glad I waited. Of course, your circumstances might be different but there are two things I'd like you to consider before you file.

1. You said one of the reasons for moving forward with the divorce now is for your emotional well being. Getting divorced now will not help you heal faster. Grieving the loss of your marriage and your way of life will take as long as it takes. You can't rush it. You're going to hurt, unbearably at times, I'm sorry to say for some time to come. You can't shut it down by filing for divorce. It doesn't work that way.

2. You didn't think of your children and the effect on them until after you had decided to divorce. That's an indication that you're not thinking clearly about a lot of things. You have suffered a trauma. Again, you need some clarity before making life changing decisions. You only started this thread 7 days ago. 7 DAYS AGO! That's not enough time to do anything. Remember, you've had bombs lobbed at you every day since the 24th. I believe your number one priority right now should be to talk with your children, tell them what has happened, tell them their mother has done a terrible thing but still loves them. Tell them that you love them, tell them that you are hurting because of what has happened and things will change but not this minute and that none of the changes are because of them. Emphasize that over and over again and encourage them to talk with their Mother so she can also reassure them it's nothing they've done.

You have a rough road ahead. I'm sorry for that but there is help here. If you feel you don't need help you'll find support here and that can be just as helpful during this time when your emotions are going in every direction imaginable.

Brick-

My wife spent too many years doing another guy for what appears absolutely no reason. She cant think of anything other than the meaningless dollars he paid her to be his 'assistant' and the credit card she used to buy clothing and junk.

To me all that and including conversation, companionship, and attention that he gave and that I didnt do enough of means nothing to me.

Its the sex and nakedness and holding and kissing and rubbing and all the rest that still, 8 months post dday, I wrestle with.

I try to focus on some facts or facts as I believe them to be: a woman doesnt cheat for the sex for the most part, its the guy who wants to get laid. The woman uses sex to keep the rush of excitement continuing and the affection of some a-hole.

I have a list of 50+ questions compiled in a notebook all in the same vein as to your polygraph question 2.

When cooler heads prevailed a long time ago I decided she'll never see those questions because what good would it do? Can I prevent the "ejaculations" now? Will the kisses not have happened? No.

I know what happened there. I have a very good idea what happened while they were naked. She's told me a great deal about the 'dirty details' and it humiliated her and degraded her to have to tell me. So, after a month or so, I stopped those questions.

Our wives did the most moronic thing a spouse can do. NO ONE KNOWS IT MORE THAN THEM. They'll go to their grave with the knowledge that they played Russian roullette with their families' lives and were lucky enough to have a real man in their life who was able to rise above it.

Im still working on it. Trust me. One bad vision and Im looking in the phone book under D for divorce attournies. Then, I stop, breathe, and remember that she has been wonderful, remorseful, regretful, and desperate to make it right with me and the kids every minute since May 8 of last year.

The sex stuff you are hung up on is pretty standard for us. I like to think my wife used her guy to get what she wanted. Ugly. Not the pure little girl I married, but a better one who is all-in with our marriage today.

Please give it time.

Brick, Mike just gave you a perfect outlook on how things should work. Some 20 years latter I still wrestle from time to time with some of the details of my wife's affair. Then I look at it as what good would it to to go over the details again. I know everything that happened. There is nothing I can do to change anything. What's done is done. You might look at like I now do she is with me not him so I feel like I have won if there is such a thing whenever something like this happens.

Great response MikeStillStanding.



Eventually, all of us must abandon our hopes for a better yesterday.
Married, or divorced.

A great man who travels under the name Celtic Voyager, with ancestry from distant green land, with awesome powers to uplift and motivate even the most downtrodden of us once said to me:

"You won, she chose you."

As angry as I get (and, man, I still do), those five words have a calming effect. I look at her and if she smiles at the right time and those words chime in my ears, Im good.

Now you have those words too.

Its funny becasue the sexual stuff means nothing at all to me, its the fact he gave her attention and love that belonged to me.


But I really agree with this sentiment:


I would have loved this and its the fact he dumped me like a hot brick - disallowing me the chance to choose to stay or leave - that has made the biggest LB withdrawals

Mike�I see what you are saying. When I was pacing the floor, asking her the details, she sat in the corner and hid her face with the drapes. I know she was ashamed and humiliated.

Strange, I thought I would want to kill the OM if this ever happened to me. I did briefly, but I never had the same rage for him. For now at least, it faded just about completely. He could have been anybody.

You all have generally been right-on about everything, so I believe you that in time, the �you won� may be comforting. I�m not there yet, though.

Indie�I�m very sorry to hear that. Right now I feel like, what exactly did I win?



Please forgive me for not offering back the support that you all have given me, I can�t think about much of anything but my situation right now, it is all-consuming.

She scheduled the poly for this afternoon, in about an hour and a half. I�m very nervous, will check back later.

You won a chance to save your marriage with a potential for an even greater one than ever before.

Good luck

We will back your decision (whatever it is) after we grill you about your decision making process. It's good for you when we challenge your decision. Being challenged helps you think more deeply and fewer regrets for the future will be your reward.

BIG HUGS

Brick,
As the WS, I see that your wife is really trying. Her actions are like mine.

I haven't figured out how to get others words into that box so I'll just paste it here. You are absolutely right when you said:

Our wives did the most moronic thing a spouse can do. NO ONE KNOWS IT MORE THAN THEM. They'll go to their grave with the knowledge that they played Russian roullette with their families' lives and were lucky enough to have a real man in their life who was able to rise above it.

Don't give up on her yet. The fact that she's taking a poly is HUGE! She doesn't want to lose you.

Please forgive me for not offering back the support that you all have given me

All of us here were the beneficiaries of counsel and support analogous to that which you are receiving. It came from the ones that preceded us here, and will continue with the ones that follow you.

Right now you pay attention to your situation, and your WW. (If YOU'RE nervous, imagine her trepidation.....)

As one who would know, you are in the right place mentally.

Dont let the bumpy ride let you lose focus.

Let her earn forgiveness.

Come here and let the people here walk you through the ups and downs.

I did and still do.

Stick with the MB strategy as you have been. I think its taking you on the best path.

Ive made some mistakes in the process since my dday, but what I have and its sounds like early on you have too, my wife is onboard with me and we recovered stronger each time.

It gets better.

You've won part of the battle by realizing this. My H said the same thing about his OW - she could have been anybody. It was the EN's the affair partners were filling.

BANG!


Million dollar question, ain't it?


I can't tell you what you've won, Bricks. Nobody here can tell you what you've won.


It's up to your wife to demonstrate "the prize."

She passed 4 of the 5; unfortunately the failure was probably the most important one:

Did you have any further contact with OM after the morning of Thursday, Jan. 26?

(the date/time that she said was the last contact).

There was some confusion over this date at first when I asked her for it, but she said was sure about it in the end.

She agreed to another test in the future regarding continuing contact.

We have counseling with the Harleys already scheduled, and too late for refund.

I guess we might as well, as it is paid for. Unfortunately now my heart isn�t really in it.

Any advice?

Take deep breaths.

This is exactly why you keep the appointment. I think you'll have a different outlook on things after your session.

Bricks, I would not make any decisions until you have had counseling with the Harleys. I know your mind is like a ping pong ball at this time. It sounds like your wife is wanting to keep the marriage together. The next poly test might clear up the first discrepancies. Just try to think before you make any decisions that you might regret. I hope things work out for you.

Prepare to go up and down a lot.

Sit tight and meet with the Harleys. This not the time for decisions or reactions. I hope you did not think a trip for a test was going to fix every thing. This was only one of many steps.

Remember recovery is a two to five year event.

I curious who tipped you off and sent that letter.
Was is OM?
Did WW try to end affair?
Did Om try to get to you to leave WW?

Thanks, everyone.

Pep--I'm glad you reminded me, I needed that!

Road, yes, I naively did think the poly would fix (just about) everything. As for the picture and who sent it, we both guess it was his wife, but no way to know for sure. The poly examiner asked the same question. My wife did say that she thought the OM was �infatuated� with her and �very jealous� of me.

It�s so confusing because she did everything that I asked for. Tonight, she said that she wanted to tell the kids what is going on, something I did not yet request. Earlier (before ploy was scheduled), she even volunteered previous contact information (pay-as-you-go phone) that I would never be able to obtain.

To move forward, I have to believe her. I�ll give this my best shot.

'Trust, but verify' - President Ronald Reagan (and many others)

Bricks, when I urged you to go for it based on your WW's apparent eagerness to work with you, I should have added the condition that everything must be out on the table, and both of you need to be completely open and honest. This will be difficult for her to do at the beginning as she is still sooooo freakin' foggy.

You don't have to believe her. You can't really believe her if she's still foggy can you? You have to keep monitoring everything. That's the only way you will develop the confidence to trust her. I know that probably sounds contradictory, but you will be able to trust her only when you're satisfied that you know everything that is going on.

Fasten your seat belt - you're in for a bumpy ride but a ride that will be well worth it if you can save your marriage and built a fantastic relationship with your wife.

Bricks, if you are certain you uncovered ALL of the ways that they communicated and blocked access to any further contact (BTW you cannot "believe" her yet, you need to keep your eyes WIDE open)...just thinking out loud...there is the possibility of "indirect" contact wherein she may have looked at something related to the affair (email, note, momento, ??) since the date of NC and that could have caused the fail on that Q. Might want to investigate that and make sure all of those types of things are destroyed.

Hang in there.

When are you going to tell the kids, Bricks? You need to lay it out for them.

Along these lines .....

Kids, I have some serious things I need to discuss with you. Come sit by me and get comfortable.

You know that married people are not supposed to date someone other than the person they are married to. Right?
That's call being faithful, and being faithful is part of the marriage vows. Vows are promises we make to each other and to God when we get married.

Well, Mommy made a very serious mistake and she broke that marriage vow. Mommy became unfaithful with another man. Mommy got caught. This has hurt me deeply. Both Mommy and I are in a lot of pain and distress. We are trying to fix this, but I do not know what will happen in the future. I do know this. I will always be here for you. I will always love you. I will not lie to you. I will also tell you when I do not have the answer, but I am working on the answer. I also know for CERTAIN that none of this is your fault. None of it.

Do you have any questions?

[Answer questions]

Let's do a group hug.

Pep, the only part of that I don't like is that "Mommy got caught". As if that were the serious mistake she made...

I disagree. It says that she was keeping it secret and got caught in doing so. It validates that she knows what she was doing was wrong and she got caught. She broke her marital vows which caused mommy and daddy to be in a lot of pain and distress. It also teaches the children that parents aren't the only people affected by the poor judgement. Consequences of right vs wrong.

When I post in this manner, it's not to be taken word for word but as a suggestion or as a starting off point, that can be used to form your own words.

Mommy didn't make a mistake, she made a choice.

Just sayin . . .

Bricks, my daughter was 6 years old whenever my wife left me. I told her that mommy had a boyfriend and did not want to live with daddy anymore. I also told her that she could see mommy anytime she wanted to. I also let my daughter know that sometimes people fall out of love. From the start we had decided that we were going to be civil through out the divorce which was next to impossible. The only problem I had was a question from my daughter wanting to know what a "period" is. Thank god for my mother being able to help with some of the questions since I had primary custody and did not know how to answer some of the questions. The main thing is be truthful with your children and above all let them know that nothing between mommy and daddy is their fault.

I don't like the idea of calling an OP a "boyfriend." And telling her that sometimes people fall out of love is true, but that's not what happened with your WW. She committed adultery and that caused her to want to leave you and your daughter. I think you should have been more upfront with your DD. You can still be.

As far as the "got caught" part, as Pep said, it is a starting off point, but you could use it, after you explained that Mommy lied about it, and then Daddy caught her(it helps showing that LYING is also wrong).

Shoot, Pep, except for the part that struck me (personally) wrong, I wouldn't want to change anything. No way would my words be as good as those...

I think word-smithing about ways to approach the kids is an excellent exercise and benefits everyone.

Hack away.
Chime in.
Critique is good.

Thanks, everyone.

We spoke with Steve Harley today. He gave my wife an assignment which she immediately completed. She also immediately filled out two questionnaires that we were asked to before the session.

He advised me to not continue with the divorce. Friday we will have the next session, and my wife planned a �date night.� for us.

Warning, TMI this paragraph. My wife and I had sex the other night. It was a bit uncomfortable for me, and I couldn�t finish. No so much images, but thoughts�did she do this with him, that with him, etc? I�m probably not ready for that yet.

As for the failed poly question, what didn�t make sense is that she came clean with much more hurtful information, and volunteered additional info that I would have had no way of knowing, as well as immediately did everything that I asked.

I gave some thought to this, and it occurred to me that the poly examiner did reword the contact question from what I originally wrote to something more broad. Just before the exam, we redefined contact as �indirect� as well, such as inquiring through a friend, and some other ways of �contact� that I don�t remember precisely.

That said, the date of last contact given to my by my wife was Thurs. 26. She said on this day, she bought a pay-as-you-go phone and told OM to stick to a story that they never met (the OM is still sticking to this story, according to his wife).

On Friday 27, my wife revealed to me that they had indeed met in NY and had sex. On Saturday 28, I had my wife access the OM�s wife�s facebook page so I could send the OM�s wife a message to call me. On the wife�s fb page is a big picture of the OM. Then when my wife spoke to the OM�s wife, they talked about the OM. So, this very well may have been the source of the failed question�indirect contact. I may never know for sure, but my gut tells me there was no contact of the kind I was referring to with the original poly question.

I read her posts, and I agree she comes across as defensive and foggy. In person, however, she is completely different�I have no complaints at all about her behavior to me. The discrepancy doesn�t surprise me that much. She has always been emotionally sensitive, and never took criticism well, even constructive. Mr. Harley recommended to me that she stop posting if she is not feeling good about it (NOTE: This advice applies to OUR SITUATION ONLY and not for all WWs!). Perhaps when we are further along she can resume. I will leave it up to her.

On her own accord, my wife began writing a letter to my parents, but I am not so enthusiastic about letting them know. Mr. Harley recommended that we reveal to those who could help us. I believe my parents could do that, so I guess it is the right thing to do. I am not sure about the kids yet. I�ll ask him about that for the session on Friday.


Sorry for the length. I don�t mean to �blog� here, but I have no one else to talk to yet and getting this out really helps.

Thank you for caring and listening.

I just noticed the small pile of things that my wife left me from a few days ago when I asked her to leave. It�s still sitting on the desk: our two credit cards, bank/debit card, insurance cards for the kids.. even her gift cards (unused from Christmas), and her Costco card. She still didn�t pick them up, and never asked about them. I never asked for nor wanted her to do that.

It�s those kind of actions that just disarm my anger.

Bricks, does this mean you are going to give this a whirl?

How did you like Steve Harley? He is really very good, isn't he?

Bricks, it would appear to me that you have one extraordinarily remorseful wife on your hands. WW's don't take these kinds of measures (let alone unprovoked) unless they are feeling some intense pain themselves for their awful choices and decisions. These actions do merit some serious thought from you on how to proceed. There are a LOT of BHs on this site (myself included) who would've KILLED to get what you are now being handed willingly, and with no concern for what happens to her.

This is a powerful message buddy. Please think on this for a while.

A long while

Bricks, it may be that she failed that question because of the way it was worded, you are still going to find out if it wasn't though through snooping, right?

Sounds like things are going in the right direction for your chance at marital recovery. Keep it up. You're doing great.

Bricks, I've got to tell you - I was waiting to see if your WW acutally submitted to a poly to see if she was really remorseful. I think she is. I believe that the two of you can rebuild your marriage. I believe that this is a woman who is worthy of your consideration.

Don't misunderstand me - she has been foggy and the two of you will need to do a lot of work. But I am so encouraged for both of you!

That's because she was owning her [censored]. And I commend her for that. I think you and her are coming from a great position with the Harley's. The hardest part is for the offending spouse to show complete contrition. It seems that your wife is committed to it.

Good for you bricks. I agree with the other posters - it sure looks like Mrs. Bricks wants to rebuild your marriage. You have a willing partner, something a lot of us never had.
Continue posting here and working with SH. You have a great chance of surviving the affair and living a complete life with your family.

Melody�Yes, I�m all in now. You are right, Steve Harley is very good. No b.s., cuts to the chase on what has to be done. I also like that he carefully explains the purpose of what he asks us to do.

Tiger�Thanks for your thoughts. I appreciate what you are saying. It�s hard not to want to try with my wife�s current actions.

Scotland�Thanks for keeping me vigilant. This morning my wife showed me how to log into the on-line phone co. account to check activity. I�m not sure what I could do to detect secret phones, however.

Maritalbliss, Ouch, and Linus�Thanks very much! I greatly appreciate you words of encouragement.

I think your WW is doing all she should be doing. However you should not let your guard down. It is normal to verify to trust. With time the need to verify will grow less.

You may not physically find a secret cell. And from what you have posted I don't think there is one.

Though hidding a digital VAR in WW car and on in the house should reveal the use of any secret phones by WW.

Hi everyone,

My wife asked me to post again to give an update. I haven�t posted in a while because when I come here, I feel bad as I see so many people in bad situations similar or even worse than my own. In any case, we have been counseling with Steve Harley and things are improving.

Last week we got into a fight because of something I did. I hired a female employee about 6 months ago who I thought best for the job. I didn�t tell my wife because I knew she would be upset and I didn�t want to deal with it. Last week I finally began to feel guilty about the continued deception and told her. Anyway, I believe that I can transfer this person to another supervisor and I think this will resolve the issue to her satisfaction. I don�t completely like this solution, and I was upset about it as it negatively impacts my work. It seems unfair to me since she had the affair and I haven�t acted inappropriately around another female. It�s odd because I was never particularly jealous or worried about her behavior, even now, surprisingly enough. I guess people are just different. However, I do agree that it is ultimately my fault as I deceived her about it to begin with.

I am glad that she comes here for support, and I really appreciate the great advice that she receives.

Happy Easter,

Bricks

Hey, Bricks! Good to hear from you!

We heard about the female assistant. As you probably know, that went over like a...well, like a brick.

The fact that your wife had an affair doesn't give you a free pass to let your own boundaries go. It's not a quid pro quo situation. You placed yourself in a precarious situation that could endanger your marriage.

Let's rephrase your statement to help explain my point:
See what I mean? Your boundaries protect YOU as well as your marriage.

I am concerned that you would spend a period of time with this woman and not answer your cell phone when your wife calls.

Tell me what the two of you have been doing to recover your marriage. How much UA time are you spending together each week? How is the needs-meeting going?

Thanks, Maritalbliss.

I agree with you completely. I don't think my boundaries have weakened since the affair; in fact I think they may be stronger.


I agree that not telling my wife about this person and discussing it with her before the hire was a potential threat. I also agree that traveling alone with this person for more than an hour was not a good decision.

I do not agree that refusing to hire females ever again, which my wife insists on, is a reasonable nor ethical request. However, I have agreed to abide by this. I am concerned for the future, as this may lead to a loss of productivity as well as could get me into trouble. We may have to discus this again if this situation arises in the future.


The day that my wife was upset about, she said that she called me when I was driving to a meeting. I believe her, but I did not hear it. I don�t remember if she said she called me while I was returning; if so, I did not hear it then either. My phone is always on vibrate as I am frequently in meetings and presentations and I cannot have the phone ring during these times. Sometimes I cannot feel/hear it. She called once or twice during my meeting; and I did hear/feel the phone then but I did not answer as the time was not appropriate. This frequently happens and my wife knows this. Usually I call her back as soon as I can, but sometimes I forget to. I should improve that. In any case, I agreed with her that I won�t travel alone with a female again; that sounds reasonable to me.

I hope that does not come across as argumentative or defensive, I am not intending to be.



Steve Harley gave us a number of basic MB exercises which we are following. After the above incident, Steve asked me to write a weakness protection plan and discus it with my wife.

We are not spending enough UA time together. We schedule more than 15 hrs, but most of this time is not very good. My wife gets home late from work, around 8:00, and often works on weekends, so we only have an hour or two each night to spend together when we are both tired. She�s also taking classes, working on her MS degree. Note I am not blaming her, this was a joint decision and I highly encouraged her to do this. Last week we spent almost no time together, as we were both mad at each other over the above incident. Childish, but nevertheless how we both behaved.

She is doing a good job meeting my EN; I don�t think I am doing as good. I�m working on improving.

Thanks for your feedback, I do appreciate it.

Did you make or receive any other calls during the same period of time?

All of your efforts will be in vain if you can't make this happen. If the police came to your door tonight and told you that you would go to prison for life if you didn't get your UA solidly in for the next week, would you allow them to shackle you and lead you off to the hoosegow?? Hell, NO! You'd be sitting down with Mrs. Bricks and writing down your UA time for the coming week.

So why aren't you doing it NOW? Do you have to be threatened to have UA time? Do you not understand how important it is?

I spoke to a co-worker from a different institution who asked me directions to the meeting.


I know you are right, I agree completely that we need to get this worked out for next week as soon as we can. However, my wife is out with her study group (all female) right now working on their group paper. I assume we can get this done tomorrow evening when we get back from work.

Actually, I�m glad I posted again. I needed a kick in the pants to get going.

Thanks, Maritalbliss (seriously, not sarcastically)!