I'm sure this will turn into a long story quick. so a couple years ago my wife started an EA which I believe turned physical and she denies. I exposed the affair to everyone including OM's wife. in the wake of it all they both stopped communication and things went well for my wife and I. we were able to make it thru until a month ago. I didn't then and still am not sure about the plan A and B and 180 and all the other stuff. so thats where I need help!
now the rest of the story. on 9/17 I needed on her ipad and realized the passcode was changed. (instant red flag). I called her asked y the change. and she got defensive and eventually gave it to me. I looked through everything I could find and ended up finding Facebook searches for the same om as last time. I asked about it and her reasons changed each time(I didn't- don't remember- was curious it's nothing). so we had a heated discussion about it and the next day she says she is unhappy and wants to separate. so the following week I spent doing all the wrong things. begging crying talking logically trying to get her to see something and it didn't work. a few nights before the move she started an argument and said she was goin to the gym and was gone for a few hours . the next few days were ok we got along for the most part. one night I couldn't sleep (still cant) and ended up trying for the ipad again and she changed the passcode again. I figured out a way to view her "notes" where all her login and passwords were for all her accounts and found her cell phone history and ther were "tons" of communication between the two. when confronted she dismissed it all as just being friends. and she just needed to talk to someone about everything that had been goin on. mind you that up until 9/17 I thought things were great. had no reason to suspect a thing. we were even picking out paint colors for the house the day before! so for some reason I kept giving her the benefit of the doubt t thru all this. I wanted so bad to believe that it was all nothing. so moving day came and I helped her move and unpack and get settled. she invited me to stay the night and of course I did. she had me convinced that this was the way to reconnect and make us closer. the very next day we were in the middle of a txt conversation and she just stopped... I was flipping out. calling texting and no reply for a couple hours. when she finally did her whole attitude changed to "we just need space" and "time apart" and all that. she had told me she met him at the bar for a beer and thats all. so off and on for the next week or so it was bouncing back and forth between being nice and showing affection and then back to the needing space. we had a few really good night's in all this which kept me keeping hope alive. so we have 3 kids (2mine on my stepson) she took my stepson to live with her(legally obligated to) and the other 2 with me. well on 10/15 my stepson calls and tells me that "mom's acting shady and left the house and didn't say anything" immediately I knew what was goin on so I hopped in the car to go to the bar that I kno he hangs out at. when I got there I sat in the parking lot for 5.min or so trying to figure out what next.. I finally decided to go in. I walked in and they seen me and just stared with their mouths open. I told her I couldn't believe she's been lying this whole time about not seeing him(she told me she would have no contact while we figure "us" out) and lying to the kids and everybody about y she moved out. told her good luck and walked out. I haven't spoke to her since(only 3 days I kno but eternity to me) unless it was about the kids and just txts usually. and today (10/18)she came to pick up my daughter and take her to hang out and I couldn't help but tell her how much I missed her. I hugged her and kissed her and she kind of made an effort to return the affection. almost like she was making herself not have feelings. I even got her to Crack a couple smiles. I was trying to portray a strong happy guy and keep things positive. for the most part I think it was positive. any way I have no idea what I'm doing everything I do or have done seems like the wrong thing. I feel like since I confronted them I should be doing plan b but really don't want to push her further away. I want nothing more than to work on our marriage. I just don't know what I'm doin and whether to listen to my heart or brain. it's a constant tug of war and has been for a month. I just need guidance. I'm sure I left a bunch out so ask anything! help please!

Jeff,I'm sorry you find yourself in this painful situation. Your marriage never recovered from her first affair. If it had recovered properly, she would have written the OM a No Contact letter and made it impossible for any further contact to occur. When the A is with someone in the vicinity, Dr. Harley strongly recommends that the couple move away. Many people claim they can't, but the ones who make the effort find that it's easier to achieve recovery.

MB isn't about 180 at all. Basically, it's Plan A and Plan B. Dr. Harley recommends that a man do a good strong Plan A for about 6 months, or for as long as his health can handle the stress.

An important part of Plan A is exposure. Have you re-exposed the ongoing affair to the OMW? Have you told everyone in your lives about your wife's affair with this man? Have you told this OM to leave your wife alone and that you plan to move heaven and earth to keep her and that you love her?

Plan A is about being a really great husband and father, not punishing your wife, no love busters. Don't cry and plead with her; be pleasant and calm. Always look good and smell nice; maintain your health. If you are having problems with depression or controlling your emotions, see a doctor for ADs. They can help you immensely with a minimum of side effects.

So you have your children and live in the family home? Please work hard to keep it that way. Have you seen a lawyer to find out about your legal rights?

If you truly want to save your marriage, don't back off showing your wife that you care about her. Do a strong and wide exposure. Have you read through the threads at the top of the SAA forum? Please read the threads on Exposure Exposure 101 and on Plan A. What are Plans A & B

Welcome to MB and sorry for your pain.

Where is your WW living?

Have you told the OM's BW that their affair never ended? Who is this OM? How does she know him?

long way, the OM and his wife got divorced the last time around. but I have exposed it to her mom and her sister and a few of her family members. the kids know as well from just going through it a few years ago. yes my 2 live with me in the family home as long as we can afford to (losing her income will make it difficult). and I have seen a lawyer however the bad new outweighed any good news ther was. I have a doctor's appointment on Friday to discuss stress and everything too. I will be reading those threads soon to help figure this out.
ever since I confronted them in the bar she is very short with me and truthfully I was lucky that I got the response I got today. usually she would have turned my affection into an argument. this is all so confusing! thanks for the help.

the OM is a childhood friend of hers. he is actually my brother in laws (sisters husband) nephew. and when my sister got married a few years ago my wife was maid of honor and the OM was the best man. that was how the "friendship" started was planning the wedding. and grew from there.

Hi Jeff, welcome to Marriage Builders. Sorry for the reasons that have brought you here. Your best bet is to mount a strategic and widespread exposure, especially to the OM's family and friends. Please go read my exposure thread and follow the instructions there.

And you should be in PLAN A. Not Plan B or the "180," which is one of the most ineffective plans I have ever seen. The "180" was created by a wayward and while it benefits the AFFAIR, it does not benefit your marriage. Our goal is to save your marriage, NOT to facilitate an affair.

Exposure is your absolute greatest weapon. Please use it to your advantage.

Make sure you expose to all your family, friends, and clergy about your wife's ongoing affair. Ask for help in ending the affair. You will learn everything you need to know about exposure when you read the thread. Do you children know NOW that their mother is involved with this OM again?

Also, can you locate contact info for the OM? You should expose to his family and friends as well.


What do you mean about more bad news than good? Can you fight for physical custody of your children? Several fathers who post here have won custody of their children.

Can you cut expenses enough to make your income cover all the important things?


Don't argue with your wife. Always stay calm and pleasant. It's like trying to argue with an addict - pointless. Your wife is an addict and you need to stay out of arguments with her. Plan A is showing your wayward wife that you care for her and about her.

I just read the exposure post and will be contacting as many people as I can tonight. yes the kids know about the affair. and they know that I want nothing more than to be a family again. the problem wasn't with custody as she's already "abandoned" the house and kids. the problem was financial. she had agreed to pay me biweekly payments and as of now has not. if I file for divorce the child support would be less than the agreed upon amount. and I don't want a divorce. the bills are the biggest thing. she stopped helping with them when she said she was moving out so they all got behind. I am trying to juggle those to get them caught up and squared away (possibly even moving in my nephew in the basement to help with bills). so I have had the most stress and emotions pass through my body in the past month than I've ever had combined!

and I have already had a talk with her about her OM. that she needs to cut him out of her life period. and she said that I can't tell her who her friends can and can't be.

and besides the exposure to everyone I think I have done most if not all plan A to no avail. she is too deep in "fog" maybe?

and ever since I confronted them at the bar she is very short in all communication. she shuts me out before I can get in.

This is why it is so important to do a very comprehensive exposure. She will remain in the fog until the affair dies off. Your job is to strategically and quietly kill it.

I would find the OM's Facebook page and expose to as many of his contacts as you can. I would also expose on cheater sites like cheaterville and badboyreport. Doing things like that will cause him to rethink his affair. OM are cowards and punks and they don't like conflict.

and it seems like we've spent this whole month with her going in and out of the fog. and like I said it's hard to show her how much I care and am willing to make things better when she won't let me come over or is very short on communication.

I just messaged his two sisters on facebook

You have already told her you care. That is not the problem. The problem is that she doesn't care.

Good job! Keep going...

I'm trying to find more of his family to contact. I've contacted alot of her family as well. I've told her mom and sister. but they seem to not know how or want to help. my wife is very hard to talk to because as soon as the conversation starts to get hard she shuts down completely. she will usually turn it into an argument or just leave the situation. she will avoid everyone before she has to hear what they have to say. she's blocked everyone out of what's going on besides OM. it seems.

and how do I deal with her telling me to leave her alone and give her her space and all that? it's all so confusing.

WEll, you can't force yourself on her, but you CAN work on killing the affair and be there as it falls apart.

Expect that this is how she will act until you have killed the affair dead.

Focus on exposing the affair. Two sisters is not enough. Keep going. In order to be effective you want exposure to be to everyone all at once. This is not a time for half measures!

Do you have OM's Facebook contact list? Is that who you are exposing to?

What message are you sending these people?

I just seen her when she dropped my daughter off and her attitude was a complete 180 from earlier. she was nice and receptive earlier. now it's back to being short and simple answers. and I wasn't tryin to talk about anything in particular just asking how her day was with our daughter. usually that indicates she'll be seeing the OM tonight.

his sisters are the only ones I know to be his family. I'm trying to find more info.

I just got off the phone with one of his sisters she said she'll do what she can to expose it to her family and let him know she knows.

Will she give you the contact information of her parents? You need to be calling them personally asking for their help. That is too important of a message to be passed on 3rd hand.

Can you find this sister on Facebook so you can find the other family members?

I just got off the phone with one of his sisters she said she'll do what she can to expose it to her family and let him know she knows.

I have her number. I'll ask her if she can give me her mom's number. she said he is very distant lately and they hardly talk. but I'll give it a go.

Ask for their help in putting pressure on the OM to end the affair. They can tell him that that affairs usually die a natural death, and that he will have helped destroy a family. She should tell him that the children will hate him for his part in the destruction of their family and that your wife won't be welcome at their homes. They can help paint a dark picture of life in an affair.

Exposing to his mother will be a critical exposure, so I would get her name and # and give her a call.

I agree. Call the mom.

I haven't heard back from her but I did talk to most of my wife's family. they said they'll try and talk to her but she was impossible last time.

so I've been texting her for a couple hours. not about anything in particular just kids and stuff. I'm keeping it very positive and trying to joke with her and keep the conversation going as long as I can. she had the idea to come over for dinner tomorrow (no talking tho). absolutely. now I just gotta keep my big mouth and my feelings in check!

Sir that's good but you need to focus on finishing exposure.
If you are in the USA, this is should not take too long as most people are on Facebook.
Also post the OM on Cheaterville.

I talked to his sister again she said she would give her mom my number and she said she told her what was going on.. my wife just left. we had an ok time. kept it positive.

HELP!! she told me tonight that she don't have feelings for me anymore. it's the first time I think she's been honest this whole time.. what do I do.. maybe it wasn't about the other guy all along? someone help please!

EVERY Wayward says that.

Don't pay ANY attention to ANYTHING She says. Period!!!

Be vigilant and finish ALL exposures, if you haven't yet. Then the fog may slow dissipate while she goes through withdrawal, if you follow ALL the steps thoroughly.

Keep doing your best Plan A, even if she does not reciprocate or even acknowledge anyof your efforts. She will remember them someday.

LTL

We already knew this! NEXT!

I've already told everyone I could. and now I don't even know what to believe. what if there really isn't anything goin on with them and I just told a bunch of people something that isn't true??

They are having an affair and you know that.

she said that she hasn't had feelings for me in a long time and that she didn't want to hurt me so she kept lying to me and herself hoping it would get better and it never did. she said that since she's moved out that she feels this relief that she no longer has to put on an act to make me think that things are ok. and that when we see each other now it's like seeing a close friend not a husband. and even then she is stressed that I will try to kiss or hug her and she don't want to keep hurting me by telling me no or pushing me away.

I just don't know what to do now. I've done the exposure. I've tried everything else. I just don't know where to turn. what to do.

This is standard script for a wayward. They always say things like this and rewrite history. It's what is called the "I Love You But I'm Not In Love With You" speech, and just about every betrayed spouse hears it.

The reason is because your wife has a new point of comparison. She is in love with the OM, which makes her think/realize she's not in love with you.

Don't let it shake you. Keep following the plan.

You keep doing Plan A. Have you read up on Plan A? It takes tremendous patience. Read some of the threads of betrayed husbands. Have you read Surviving an Affair, specifically about Jon and Sue?

Listen to the radio show when you can, too; it's very helpful.

she won't agree to stop the affair because there isn't one she says. she won't agree to stop talking to him because he isn't the problem she says. and she don't talk to him that often she says. it's impossible for me to know since she's moved out. I've tried to be thoughtful and caring and and supportive and positive and when I am she avoids all contact with me.

unless I'm missing something on plan a.. I mean should I just keep being thoughtful and caring and positive whenever I see or talk/text her even though it she is not receptive to it .. and just keep waiting on her to decide to call or text me. and then go a couple days not speaking because I'm not giving her her space..and then try again and again..

Just stay in Plan A! Stay the course and don't pay any heed to fog babble.

and since she said that tonight about no feelings who know how long it'll be until she contacts me. so just wait for her to contact me?. like i said just me trying to make contact with her causes friction. and not only that but if she is still talking/seeing OM would that be a little having cake and eating it too? sorry I'm just lost!

Yep! Just wait until she contacts you and then present your best side. As the affair crumbles, she will contact you more. WE already knew she had no feelings for you. That describes 99.9999% of affairs.

OMG! I hope ur right.. I'll do my best and keep u posted.. believe me.. I need all the help I can get!

Plan A does seem like wayward is having her cake and eating it, too, but the question to ask yourself is:

Do I want to have a chance to save my marriage?

If the answer is no, you would ignore her, punish her, do anything necessary to push her away.

If the answer is yes, then you would be kind and caring, a soft place for her to land when the affair crumbles. Most affairs don't last, and, if you've shown yourself to be caring, she may well return to you. You would still have your conditions, such as creating EPs for life and building a new and much better marriage with you, but Plan A at least gives this a chance to happen.

Dont' be annoying; send her a short pleasant text every so often, a card on special occasions, that kind of thing, to let her know you are thinking of her and love her. If she needs some help, then help her.

The good thing about Plan A for a man is that if she doesn't return, you can go into Plan B and divorce and you will have lost the feeling of love for her. Stay on ADs if you have trouble with being depressed during the next several months. Dr. Harley has found that most men can handle the stress of Plan A for a good months without negative effects to their health.

what should I do if I she let's say goes out with the OM? just ignore it? I mean I guess so since I'm essentially ignoring their contact via text and calls. it just seems like I'm her plan B. just in case the grass isn't greener.. I'm sorry to everyone. I know I'm a nutcase right now and I feel like I over think things. I just can't seem to see the light at the end of the tunnel when faced with losing everything we've worked so hard for(marriage, family, house). it just seems like my world is crashing in around me and just keeps getting worse and worse by the day, by the hour sometimes!

You should tell her: "I am devastated that you are seeing him"

ok so she text me and told me that she was gonna "try this whole honesty thing" and told me she was goin out for a drink. I texted back and said "ok?" and she told me "don't be rude u know its hard for me to tell u the truth" so I called he and told her I wasn't being rude that I couldnt stop her from doing anything. I said "would I rather u didn't? sure" "am I disappointed? yes" "can I stop u from doin what ur gonna do anyways? no" and told her to have a good time. she ask if I wanted her to call me when she gets home I said if u want. .. not sure if I did the right thing or not.. if there is such a thing as a right thing..

It seems she believes if she is "honest" about her thoughtless behavior that it makes it ok? Does she have this belief?

I don't know what she thinks or believes. we talked last night about her not having feelings for me anymore and I told thanks for finally being honest. and she said it felt good to be honest for a change. I said good u should try it from now on. and apparently she is...

The solution to falling out of love is to take steps to fall in love again. That is what this program does. I guess I don't get the point of her texting you about "going out for a drink." What is the point of that? And of course, she is going to meet her OM.

yes of course with the OM. the only reason I could come up with was for me to throw a fit and start an argument so she could justify it in her mind like all the times before. it was like it was fun or exciting for her to be sneaking around and now she don't have to sneak so she's looking for another way to make it more exciting by trying to start an argument first.. I'm not sure those are just my thoughts...

Sir,
You should only tell her this: "I am willing to work with you to create a loving romantic marriage but you muct first end your affair"

When she says, I am going out with OM you say: "I am devastated"

Okay? Don;t encourage her to be an honest pig. It's okay for a prostitute to be honest in Church when she repents and turns away from sin. But it is NOT okay for an unrepentant prostitute to go to Church and tell everyone the sex acts she plans on committing later in the week.

Is your wife an alcoholic?
I read about a lot of drinking in your posts.

her mom and dad are alcholics. when we were together we would normally only drink at special occasions (parties, weddings, etc). we would occasionally drink a couple beers at home but rarely. since she's moved she has obviously met him at bars and she has beer in her fridge at home. she definately has had the gene passed down for addictive tendencies. and I've read alot about the chemicals released during affairs in the brain and could only imagine how easy it is for her to be or get addicted to "cheating"

I have another thread http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2824230#Post2824230
if u need more details.
I texted my WW last night to tell her goodnight. ask if she's doin ok. she said she had a bad night. so i ask y what's wrong? she said she couldn't talk to me about it. then said that everyone keeps ignoring her that there must be something wrong with her.. I told her I'm not ignoring he she just keeps pushing me away.. she said it's not about me and said she can't talk to me about it.. i said oh it's about him (the OM).. and she just said goodnight. I told her if she needed to talk I'm here. and she didn't reply.. I need advice on what to do next..should I continue with the limited contact that I have had and let her figure it out. or keep trying to get her to open up..??

I think this is a great opportunity for your Plan A and to try to make love bank deposits.

Its likely the exposure is causing problems for the A. OM's family is probably alienating/confronting him about destroying another family. And he is probably wondering if she is really worth it and maybe making her make tough decisions.

Can you bring her a favorite lunch with a note showing concern for her. And saying something like you wish there was more you could do for her.


Also I haven't seen anyone suggest that you get antidepressant medication. They will help you not to get stuck in the pain she is causing you and help you to be the better choice and soft landing place when she spirals out of control.

so I continued with the plan A. showed her concern. she was receptive at first then the mood swung all the way to the other end.. the conversation ended before to bad of an argument started. it's almost like she's fighting with herself to pick the other guy.. she keeps bringing up stuff from all the way back before we even got married to justify why we should have never got married.. some of the stuff she says she can never forgive me for.. but it was no where near or even close to what she's doing right now.. its very frustrating for me to see her get so defensive when all I'm trying to do is help her. it's a never ending battle it seems.

well my boss at work happened to be surfing his dating websites and came across my wife.. apparently it's time for plan b..

You have only been in Plan A for 10 days? You are not ready for Plan B.

Although this news no doubt upset you, if you want a chance to recover your marriage and raise your children in an intact family, stay in Plan A. Plan B is much further down the timeline. You can do Plan A for about six months without much harm to your health.

If you go to Plan B now, it will almost certainly be the end of your marriage. You still have a good chance of winning her back. It'll take some time -- 10 days is no where long enough.